| | | Author | Message |
|---|
DummyP
  
| | #1 posted May 30, 2009 at 6:25pm (EST) |
me
--
 | mentalpowers
 
| | #81 posted June 5, 2009 at 8:03am (EST) |
Picktor, those first three bolded points didn't really relate to why I think Datsyuk is a better all around player. They were meant to clarify the earlier discussions where you made claims about my arguments that just weren't true. I fully expect Crosby to win at least one Stanley Cup. Hell, he could do it right now and I honestly hope he does. Even if Crosby, specifically, wins the Cup for Pittsburgh, hurting my argument, I'd rather that than see the Wings win. I simply brought up the all-time greats that didn't win championships because you claimed that I said Crosby wasn't as good because he didn't win a title. I didn't say that, and I don't believe any player is less than another because they haven't won a title. Regarding the dynasty/semi-dynasty: I consider a true dynasty to be a team that wins multiple championships in a time period. By my definition of a dynasty, the Pens are not currently one; however, I was trying to give Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the Pens some credit for becoming a fixture at the top of the Eastern Conference by calling them a semi-dynasty for being repeated semifinal champions. Get it?
Marketability is the reason I would choose Crosby and Ovechkin before any other NHL player if I were to build a franchise. Marketability doesn't really have much to do with talent. Talent obviously doesn't hurt, but Crosby and Ovechkin are already the best known hockey players. They're perfect choices for making a financially stable and even lucrative franchise.
And you finally bring at least an iota of hockey knowledge to the table, even if you don't back it up with anything. Crosby is a great playmaker and a leader. Datsyuk is a great playmaker too. I can buy your point that Datsyuk has a better supporting cast, but I wouldn't discount, say Peyton Manning, much because he's been surrounded by elite talent most of his career. I assume you quoted defense because you don't think it's real or valuable. I'm not going to try to convince you of its importance, or how great Datsyuk is defensively. I'll just accept that there's a difference in opinion there that results in our differing stances on where the two rank.
>> I think your opinion of him is a joke. Stop speculating on hockey
I've been crying for the last few days 
I'm simply pointing out that you come off as an uninformed meathead who acts superior based on an opinion that you hadn't backed up. You hadn't disagreed with my points, you had fabricated points, attributing them to me, when I did not make those points. You then proceeded to ignore my points regarding defense (until your last post), and face-offs, dependability, discipline. Your most recent post finally informed me of why you think Crosby is on another level: his puck handling, play making, teamwork, marketability apparently far outweigh premium defense, essentially equivalent offensive production, consistency, face-off ability. If you started by making those points for Crosby, I would've taken you seriously, like I would take Outrage and Admiral seriously. | goldbera
 
| | #82 posted June 5, 2009 at 11:25am (EST) |
datsyuk is one of the top 10 forwards in the nhl. Crosby is a generational franchise player. Id say its similar to comparing mike modano or joe sakic to a guy like mario. If he stays healthy (and that is a sig "if") Crosby will do some really interesting things. There are other great players out there right now but #1 and #2 are he and Ovechkin... there is a sig margin down to the next tier of player. These players are also awesome.
To keep it all redwings based I can put it another way: Its like comparing Stevie Yzerman at his prime to S Federov. Federov was an excellent, excellent player. Stevie was the franchise. | thehulk75
| | #83 posted June 7, 2009 at 12:13am (EST) |
5-0 how do you like them apples. | DarkLord
 
| | #84 posted June 7, 2009 at 12:08pm (EST) |
why is that whenever Detroit plays like they did last night, teams start taking cheap shots and doing bullcrap after the whistle? Anaheim and Chicago did it earlier in the playoffs too. Whenever Detroit gets blown out, they keep playing hockey, not this cheap thung crap.
Granted, it's the Finals and the Pens probably didn't like losing after beating Detroit the previous two games, but come on. If you're going to lose, do it gracefully or at least try to come back. No need for for anything but that.
And no, I'm not just bashing the Pens. I still think it's going to 7 games. I'm just sick of seeing teams that get outplayed beat up on the winning team just because they can't win.
  | thegill321
| | #85 posted June 7, 2009 at 1:58pm (EST) |
DarkLord wrote:
> why is that whenever Detroit plays like they did last night, teams
> start taking cheap shots and doing bullcrap after the whistle? Anaheim
> and Chicago did it earlier in the playoffs too. Whenever Detroit
> gets blown out, they keep playing hockey, not this cheap thung crap.
>
because the pens have no class. | DarkLord
| | #86 posted June 7, 2009 at 5:50pm (EST) |
Not true. The Wings did not attack Pittsburgh players after whistles during games 3 and 4. They didn't do it during Game 5 either, except when dog-baby Kunitz would be trying to start stuff. Kunitz and Chris Perry (Anaheim) are butt-holes.
| BluePhoenix
 
| | #87 posted June 7, 2009 at 10:12pm (EST) |
Teemu Selanne? | Ghaleon
| | #88 posted June 7, 2009 at 11:12pm (EST) |
thegill321 wrote:
> DarkLord wrote:
>> why is that whenever Detroit plays like they did last night, teams
>> start taking cheap shots and doing bullcrap after the whistle?
> Anaheim
>> and Chicago did it earlier in the playoffs too. Whenever Detroit
>> gets blown out, they keep playing hockey, not this cheap thung
> crap.
>>
>
> because the pens have no class.
LOL. Forgetting the Kornwall headshot hits that fast? | thegill321
| | #89 posted June 8, 2009 at 12:00am (EST) |
Are you still talking about conference finals again? Also, that wasn't after a whistle. The puck was in play. | DarkLord
| | #90 posted June 8, 2009 at 12:41am (EST) |
Wii wrote:
> thegill321 wrote:
>> DarkLord wrote:
> |>> why is that whenever Detroit plays like they did last night, teams
> |>> start taking cheap shots and doing bullcrap after the whistle?
>> Anaheim
> |>> and Chicago did it earlier in the playoffs too. Whenever Detroit
> |>> gets blown out, they keep playing hockey, not this cheap thung
>> crap.
> |>>
>>
>> because the pens have no class.
>
>
> LOL. Forgetting the Kornwall headshot hits that fast?
Heashot?! LOL. Havlat looked right at Kronwall and then looked down at the ice! The only headshot on that play was when Havlat's head hit the ice. I remember Walker's headshot on Cleary though...and guess what? The Wings didn't swarm him like the Blackhawk's swarmed Kronwall. Imagine that.
| mentalpowers
| | #91 posted June 8, 2009 at 10:12am (EST) |
I agree with you to an extent, Ross. I really hate how teams have "sent messages" late in games in which they got blown out. I do, though, think that every team has done it at least once if they've been in a situation to do so.
My first thoughts when you mentioned it was how it sprang up in the series that I watched all of: the Bruins ones. They were recipients of several cheap shots, starting in the Montreal series when the Canadiens were just so clearly outmatched. The events in the Hurricanes series were much more publicized: the Walker sucker punch to Ward and Jokinen slash on Chara. I felt that the Bruins did pretty well maintaining their composure in both series with the only exception that I can think of right now being Lucic's punch/cross-check to the head in a game against Montreal. Maybe my stance was just some homerism, though; a Hurricanes fan I was talking too kept talking about how dirty the Bruins were playing.
I have no problem if a trailing team wants to ramp up the intensity and physical play as long as they do it within the context of the game. | Ghaleon
| | #92 posted June 9, 2009 at 1:32am (EST) |
mentalpowers wrote:
> I agree with you to an extent, Ross. I really hate how teams have
> "sent messages" late in games in which they got blown out. I do,
> though, think that every team has done it at least once if they've
> been in a situation to do so.
>
> My first thoughts when you mentioned it was how it sprang up in the
> series that I watched all of: the Bruins ones. They were recipients
> of several cheap shots, starting in the Montreal series when the Canadiens
> were just so clearly outmatched. The events in the Hurricanes series
> were much more publicized: the Walker sucker punch to Ward and Jokinen
> slash on Chara. I felt that the Bruins did pretty well maintaining
> their composure in both series with the only exception that I can
> think of right now being Lucic's punch/cross-check to the head in
> a game against Montreal. Maybe my stance was just some homerism,
> though; a Hurricanes fan I was talking too kept talking about how
> dirty the Bruins were playing.
>
> I have no problem if a trailing team wants to ramp up the intensity
> and physical play as long as they do it within the context of the
> game.
Watch out, Gil there might use his only defense to any argument his disagrees with, and say that is in the past. | Ghaleon
| | #93 posted June 9, 2009 at 1:38am (EST) |
DarkLord wrote:
> Wii wrote:
>> thegill321 wrote:
> |>> DarkLord wrote:
>> |>> why is that whenever Detroit plays like they did last night,
> teams
>> |>> start taking cheap shots and doing bullcrap after the whistle?
> |>> Anaheim
>> |>> and Chicago did it earlier in the playoffs too. Whenever Detroit
>> |>> gets blown out, they keep playing hockey, not this cheap thung
> |>> crap.
>> |>>
> |>>
> |>> because the pens have no class.
>>
>>
>> LOL. Forgetting the Kornwall headshot hits that fast?
>
> Heashot?! LOL. Havlat looked right at Kronwall and then looked down
> at the ice! The only headshot on that play was when Havlat's head
> hit the ice. I remember Walker's headshot on Cleary though...and
> guess what? The Wings didn't swarm him like the Blackhawk's swarmed
> Kronwall. Imagine that.
>
>
Yes, it was a headshot. He waited for his chance to get the big hit to knock out one of the best players on Chicago.
The elbow was high, and the best evidence was there was a penalty. Not a 2 min, but a 5 min AND a game. The hit was as dirty as they come. You're actually complaining a team came to the defense of a teammate? LOL. I realize hockey is like the 30th most popular sport in the US behind girls amateur cheerleadering, but even you should realize that is hockey. You cheapshot someone, you get swarmed.
Kornwall tried to take Malkin out too, in Game 1 or 2, not sure which it was. If Malkin didn't duck, he was out. Kornwall FLEW over Malkin. That means he left his feet. | Finn
 
| | #94 posted June 9, 2009 at 4:52am (EST) |
The Pens are not even CLOSE to being called a dynasty! How the hell could anyone call them that. I maybe crazy, but I thought you had to actually win the big prize and do it a lot in a short span to even be considered! I don't care who is on your team Crosby, Malkin, Staal... just because you have great players does not mean you can call yourself a dynasty thats one small piece of the puzzle. It all means nothing though if your "great:" players can't bring home the big prize. Just to enlighten you on what a Dynasty is:
Toronto Maple Leafs 1946-47 to 1950-51 - 4 cups in 5 seasons (3 consecutive)
Detroit Red Wings 1949-50 to 1954-55 - 4 Stanley Cups
Montreal Canadiens 1955-56 to 1959-60 - 5 Stanley Cups in a row! probably the NHL's best dynasty!
Toronto Maple Leafs 1961-62 to 1966-67 - 4 Stanley Cups (3 consecutive)
Montreal Canadiens 1964-65 to 1968-69 - 4 Stanley Cups!
Montreal Canadiens 1975-76 to 1978-79 - 4 Stanley Cups in a row!
New York Islanders 1979-80 to 1982-83 - 4 Stanley Cups in a row!!
Edmonton Oilers 1983-84 to 1989-90 - 5 Cup wins!
See what those Dynasties all have in common, championship wins in rapid succession! Thats what separates dynasty teams from good teams. | DarkLord
| | #95 posted June 9, 2009 at 10:58am (EST) |
Wii, a cheapshot is what happened to Hudler during the Anaheim series. Hudler wasn't looked and got a forearm to the head. He left the ice bloody. A cheapshot (well, many cheapshots) is when Kronwall laid out Havlat (legally, other than Chicago fans and press, NOBODY agrees that Kronwall's hit was dirty and EVERYBODY says that he should NOT have been ejected) and then the entire Chicago team started to attack one player...just because Havlat was stupid enough to look at Kronwall and then look down at his feet. That's an instance where you get the fudge out of the way and get an odd-man rush because Kronwall stepped up. That's how you play hockey.
| Finn
| | #96 posted June 9, 2009 at 12:20pm (EST) |
DarkLord wrote:
> Wii, a cheapshot is what happened to Hudler during the Anaheim series.
> Hudler wasn't looked and got a forearm to the head. He left the
> ice bloody. A cheapshot (well, many cheapshots) is when Kronwall
> laid out Havlat (legally, other than Chicago fans and press, NOBODY
> agrees that Kronwall's hit was dirty and EVERYBODY says that he should
> NOT have been ejected) and then the entire Chicago team started to
> attack one player...just because Havlat was stupid enough to look
> at Kronwall and then look down at his feet. That's an instance where
> you get the fudge out of the way and get an odd-man rush because Kronwall
> stepped up. That's how you play hockey.
>
>
I agree 100%. That hit on Havlat, was a good hockey play Havlat was stupid and paid for it. Its like butt-holes that go into the corner and at the last minute turn there back and get hit, then they get all pissed when they are hit from behind. Once a guy is committed to a hit, and the butt-hole turns his back he does it at a time when the hitter is usually past the point where its to late to stop it. Those instances the player that turned his back deserve whatever happens to them, and the hitter should be blamed for nothing. But you still have fans that QQ and call it dirty, there just to biased to see the hit for what it truly was. | Eggplant_Wizard
| | #97 posted June 9, 2009 at 10:43pm (EST) |
LET'S GO PENS! | OuTrAgE
  
| | #98 posted June 9, 2009 at 10:44pm (EST) |
Eggplant_Wizard wrote:
> LET'S GO PENS!
Friday is going to be fun!
 | Ghaleon
| #99 posted June 9, 2009 at 11:03pm (EST)
edited June 9, 2009 at 11:06pm (EST) |
Avro wrote:
> DarkLord wrote:
>> Wii, a cheapshot is what happened to Hudler during the Anaheim
> series.
>> Hudler wasn't looked and got a forearm to the head. He left the
>> ice bloody. A cheapshot (well, many cheapshots) is when Kronwall
>> laid out Havlat (legally, other than Chicago fans and press, NOBODY
>> agrees that Kronwall's hit was dirty and EVERYBODY says that he
> should
>> NOT have been ejected) and then the entire Chicago team started
> to
>> attack one player...just because Havlat was stupid enough to look
>> at Kronwall and then look down at his feet. That's an instance
> where
>> you get the fudge out of the way and get an odd-man rush because
> Kronwall
>> stepped up. That's how you play hockey.
>>
>>
>
>
> I agree 100%. That hit on Havlat, was a good hockey play Havlat was
> stupid and paid for it. Its like butt-holes that go into the corner
> and at the last minute turn there back and get hit, then they get
> all pissed when they are hit from behind. Once a guy is committed
> to a hit, and the butt-hole turns his back he does it at a time when
> the hitter is usually past the point where its to late to stop it.
> Those instances the player that turned his back deserve whatever happens
> to them, and the hitter should be blamed for nothing. But you still
> have fans that QQ and call it dirty, there just to biased to see the
> hit for what it truly was.
You can claim the hit was legal all you want, according to NHL rules it wasn't.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26348
Pick: A “pick” is the action of a player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent who is not in possession of the puck and is unaware of the impending check/hit. A player who is aware of an impending hit, not deemed to be a legal “battle for the puck,” may not be interfered with by a player or goalkeeper delivering a “pick.” A player or goalkeeper delivering a “pick” is one who moves into an opponent’s path without initially having body position, thereby taking him out of the play. When this is done, an interference penalty shall be assessed.
No control of the puck, illegal hit. End of story. There is no black and white, no red and blue, no if and perhaps. He didn't have control or possession of the puck, it was a penalty. Just because he had the puck between his legs doesn't mean possession.
Now if he had touched the puck, it would still be a shady hit. But headshots are legal in the NHL.
As for the game tonight, could of been much worst. Nice move on Hudler's part to hold the D man sticks in front of the net. Not that it would of made a difference.
Game 7 should be good, if both teams come to play. We all remember how Washington choked in game 7.
| Raconteur
| | #100 posted June 9, 2009 at 11:15pm (EST) |
Bah, c'mon detroit! | Broccoli
| | #101 posted June 9, 2009 at 11:23pm (EST) |
Goin to game 7. Detroit will take it.
Anyone think Pittsburgh will win in the Joe on Friday? | OuTrAgE
| | #102 posted June 9, 2009 at 11:25pm (EST) |
I do. But as a Penguins fan, I have to believe that.
| Eggplant_Wizard
| | #103 posted June 9, 2009 at 11:26pm (EST) |
They finished two of the previous series in Philly and Washington, so it's time to take it in Detroit. | DarkLord
| | #104 posted June 10, 2009 at 12:47am (EST) |
*sigh* Well, at least the Wings will finally get to win the Cup at home. I guess they figured since Pittsburgh got to see them do it last year, they would show off in Detroit this time. The Pens can have Hossa back in the offseason too, he couldn't help the Pens win it, and he certainly isn't helping Detroit win it this year.
| Grimlock
| | #105 posted June 10, 2009 at 12:59am (EST) |
DarkLord, slow your roll.
Detroit is a wasteland because of everyone thought big cars would make it out. It's also a wasteland because people think they deserve things before they happen.
LEZ GET IT AWN
GENO | DarkLord
| | #106 posted June 10, 2009 at 1:13am (EST) |
but we're the new Hollywood now, lol. pittsburgh must be a wasteland too, because all the Pens fans here think they deserve the Cup before they've won it. either way, Game 7 at 8:00pm on Friday will decide who deserves what. I just hope that it's Detroit. You just hope that it's Pittsburgh. At least we are both able to watch our teams play at this time of the year.
Malkin is really ugly too. Who do you think is the ugliest on the Wings? I think I would have to go with Draper or Cleary.
| Grimlock
| | #107 posted June 10, 2009 at 1:16am (EST) |
You just said you were going to win the Cup at home. Like it just happened.
Your ugliest Wing is everyone. They're all ginger kids who got fudgeed up as children. I never noticed till now.
GENO | DarkLord
| #108 posted June 10, 2009 at 1:30am (EST)
edited June 10, 2009 at 1:31am (EST) |
I said it was going to happen, not that it just did. You guys can have Conklin back too. Osgood hasn't played bad enough to be pulled from a game yet, so he would see more playing time with the Pens.
edit: give me Left 4 Dead if the Wings win on Friday?
| DarkLord
| | #109 posted June 10, 2009 at 1:36am (EST) |
yeah, they do all have red beards...either that, or they just have the crap scraggle. I still can't decide whether or not I like Crosby's mexican 'stache
| CoachMcGuirk
| | #110 posted June 10, 2009 at 5:04am (EST) |
CoachMcGuirk wrote on 5/30/09:
> Penguins in 7. It's going the distance. It's going for speed.
>
Got the 7 part right. Now let's if the Penguins can pull it off.
Black Hole Brew pub is open for business! Drunken ramblings encouraged! | crashNburn
| | #111 posted June 10, 2009 at 3:01pm (EST) |
The team that will win is the team Gary Bettman chose months ago. The NHL has become the most corrupt sport in the world. Doesn't anyone find it really odd that in the regular season, if a bad call was made on the ice, the NHL head office would call the game and reverse bad call on ice. In the playoffs though, they do nothing. Now why on Earth would the right call be priority in the regular season, but not in the playoffs?
At the very least, the league is controlling games by having officials slant the ice in one teams favor, to extent some of the series. Teams are getting screwed in a lot of games because of the worst officiating ever and they can't say crap. Any mention of corrupt officials and you get suspended, fined, blacklisted or something like that. NHL officials are the only true untouchables in all of pro sports.
 | Ghaleon
| | #112 posted June 11, 2009 at 3:02am (EST) |
DarkLord wrote:
> *sigh* Well, at least the Wings will finally get to win the Cup at
> home. I guess they figured since Pittsburgh got to see them do it
> last year, they would show off in Detroit this time. The Pens can
> have Hossa back in the offseason too, he couldn't help the Pens win
> it, and he certainly isn't helping Detroit win it this year.
>
>
Don't count them out yet. Detroit is the favorite history wise, but you never know.
I just wish the ref'ing was better, for both sides. The lack of legit calls is stupid.
High sticks, holding, tripping, slashing, diving, goaltender interference that don't get called because one team is at home is wrong. | thehulk75
| | #113 posted June 11, 2009 at 9:40am (EST) |
I will be working during the game....Fudge | DarkLord
| | #114 posted June 11, 2009 at 10:44am (EST) |
Wii wrote:
> DarkLord wrote:
>> *sigh* Well, at least the Wings will finally get to win the Cup
> at
>> home. I guess they figured since Pittsburgh got to see them do
> it
>> last year, they would show off in Detroit this time. The Pens
> can
>> have Hossa back in the offseason too, he couldn't help the Pens
> win
>> it, and he certainly isn't helping Detroit win it this year.
>>
>>
>
> Don't count them out yet. Detroit is the favorite history wise, but
> you never know.
>
> I just wish the ref'ing was better, for both sides. The lack of legit
> calls is stupid.
>
> High sticks, holding, tripping, slashing, diving, goaltender interference
> that don't get called because one team is at home is wrong.
Yeah, I know. The 7 most important games of the season and the refs are "letting them play". It's a fudging joke. And by this point, both teams know this, so they are both getting away with murder in terms of interference and holding espeically. Despite all that, it's still been a pretty damn good series.
| Mendo
| | #115 posted June 11, 2009 at 2:11pm (EST) |
I agree with above, letting some slide is alright in my opinion. I think they are more worried about the crowds rioting over a bad call. But letting everything go is nonsense. Some of the plays allowed were so over the top, I caught myself screaming at the TV! Hopefully they address this at the next GM meeting. | Broccoli
| | #116 posted June 12, 2009 at 9:48pm (EST) |
Wow, 2-0 Pens going into the 3rd. Crosby looks like he injured his knee... will he come back?
Maxime Talbot with 2 goals for Pittsburgh.... 20 mins left for Detroit to score 2! | Broccoli
| | #117 posted June 12, 2009 at 9:56pm (EST) |
Fleury played amazing for the first 2 periods.. Osgood let 1 softie in against Talbot. | Ghaleon
| | #118 posted June 12, 2009 at 10:01pm (EST) |
I didn't like that hit on Crosby.
I'm calling 3-1 or 3-2.. Detroit will score, but if they don't wake up, it may be over. | Mendo
| | #119 posted June 12, 2009 at 10:06pm (EST) |
you can see the tears running down Hossa's face already | mentalpowers
| | #120 posted June 12, 2009 at 10:16pm (EST) |
I am so happy with the current status of the game. I just hope the Pens can hold on. | | |
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