General

Topic   Game of Thrones Discussion - NEW SEASON 8 TRAILER

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 12-Apr-2017(#1)
This topic had many older posts which were moved here:

http://gametz.com/General/game-thrones-season-7-di...


Welcome to the repurposed GOT Discussion thread! SPOILER WARNING: Spoiler tags ARE NOT necessary in this thread. Discuss freely, but be sure to AVOID THIS THREAD if you are not completely caught up. Valar morghulis!

Talk all things GOT before the final season in 2019!
DAYS UNTIL GOT: 62 DAYS

If this fizzles out before the premiere, I'll reopen it, but I plan to be posting sporadic theories/random thoughts as they come to me in here, so , like last year, I'd totally be into discussing them and seeing what others feel about the show. Theories, general thoughts, criticisms, post them all here.

(And cherish it, because we only have 6 episodes worth of new discussion this season. Gonna be a sad day when all the pointless theorizing ends.)

SEASON 8 PROMOS:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rlR4PJn8b8I

https://youtube.com/watch?v=NspqGM0DbbQ

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wA38GCX4Tb0
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Aug-2017(#2)
Yah I recognized Littlefinger looked happy at the beheading but I thought it was just him being pumped about the chaos. But like I said, it'd make sense. Is there any dialogue in the books that flat out confirms it? Either way it's neat.

As far as Littlefinger goes now, we have very little of the show to go. His chaos lead to the state of things as they are now - something he's realizing wasn't the best option. He never counted on the Stark children reuniting to rule Winterfell, so any plotting or scheming he was planning to do there is getting snuffed out. He's been trying like usual, but his story is close to it's end. I could see him getting offed as early as next episode. I haven't had an issue with him this season, he's just finally realizing he's losing his grasp on the chaotic world he helped initiate.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#3)
Anyhow @InfiniteJest still interested who you chose at the end of the GOT Telltale game!
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Aug-2017(#4)
theJAwwww wrote:
> ANYHOW has anyone played the GOT RPG game? It was released on PC & I think PS3
> or 4. I got it for a deal off Steam and was wondering if I should install it.

Telltale was great. The other was not.

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Aug-2017(#5)
Just came to a grim realization...

Cersei's had Qyburn recreating classic Martell poisons this season. We saw as much with the Sand Snake lipstick, when Jaime poisoned Olenna and Oberyn's boobytrapped spear was even alluded to with Sir Gregor.

The trebuchet Bronn uses on Drogon is named "the Scorpion." Scorpions, as we all know, are poisonous animals.

What do you folks think the possibility of Drogon being poisoned is? It's also worth noting the wound was to his shoulder, and Kahl Drogo (who Drogon is named after) died of an admittedly bewitched shoulder injury.

A dragon dropping mid-flight and then dying a drawn out poison death would be preeetty heart breaking.
d3vanj
Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#6)
That makes a ton of sense, one hell of a theory. I sure hope you are wrong.

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#7)
Hahaa eeyup me too. But it's almost been foreshadowed a little too much - if it doesn't happen, that'd be a swerve (that I'd gladly accept lol).
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Aug-2017(#8)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Just came to a grim realization...
>
> Cersei's had Qyburn recreating classic Martell poisons this season. We saw as much
> with the Sand Snake lipstick, when Jaime poisoned Olenna and Oberyn's boobytrapped
> spear was even alluded to with Sir Gregor.
>
> The trebuchet Bronn uses on Drogon is named "the Scorpion." Scorpions, as we all
> know, are poisonous animals.
>
> What do you folks think the possibility of Drogon being poisoned is? It's also worth
> noting the wound was to his shoulder, and Kahl Drogo (who Drogon is named after)
> died of an admittedly bewitched shoulder injury.
>
> A dragon dropping mid-flight and then dying a drawn out poison death would be preeetty
> heart breaking.

It's a good theory especially since when the dragon was on the ground the actual spear looked pretty small and not fatal unless through the skull. That would really hurt.

InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Aug-2017(#9)
Drogon isn't going to die, not this soon anyway, he'll play a big role against the White Walkers as the largest and strongest dragon. In my opinion the possibility is zero, but I bet one of the lesser dragons likely dies this season, and probably in the finale in a giant battle at the Wall or something.

And it's not nicknamed the scorpion, it IS a scorpion. Scorpion is just another name for a ballista, and I believe the name scorpion was popularized by the Romans. Sometimes it pays to be a Middle Ages/medieval nerd.

theJAwwww wrote:
> Anyhow @InfiniteJest still interested who you chose at the end of the GOT Telltale
> game!

Oh, and I killed...


Both on different playthroughs, but if I had to choose one, I'd kill Gryff and have Ludd survive to season 2 (If it ever happens). He's a much more intelligent and interesting villain

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Aug-2017(#10)
A ballista is a bit bigger than a scorpion, if I'm remembering correctly. Anyhow, I know it was a Roman weapon, I just feel like the use of a Scorpion against a dragon as opposed to a bigger treb or catapult is foreshadowing, especially considering all the poison this season.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#11)
Though I will admit I thought "the Scorpion" was just a GOT play on "a scorpio," I didn't realize the real-life weapon was also referred to as a scorpion. I knew it was supposed to be the same thing given its size though.
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Aug-2017(#12)
theJAwwww wrote:
> A ballista is a bit bigger than a scorpion, if I'm remembering correctly. Anyhow,
> I know it was a Roman weapon, I just feel like the use of a Scorpion against a dragon
> as opposed to a bigger treb or catapult is foreshadowing, especially considering
> all the poison this season.

A ballista is larger, but they're functionally the same, the scorpion is the evolution of the giant and unwieldy ballista. Ballista/Scorpions are much faster traveling through the air, a catapult or trebuchet would likely never make contact with an agile and aware dragon. They also can't rotate and would be easily shredded from the side or behind. Plus, a scorpion can be reloaded, aimed and fired by a single person, fairly quickly. And it has been shown to be strong enough to pierce a dragon's skull, it's the perfect weapon as shown on the show.

As far as poisoning/foreshadowing, the Sand Snakes were known to always coat their weapons in poison, and at least one of them cut Euron. But of course he's fine with no mention of poisoning. Foreshadowing is only used when it's convenient, and I don't see any way they kill the largest dragon after only a single actual showing in battle.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#13)
Either route is possible, just theorizing. Though having written, foreshadowing isn't just always used when it's convenient. It just comes off that way if written well haha

But who knows, we'll see. Drogon would have to be the dragon to die imo - him being dead would raise the stakes a bunch. Dany needs to be put into a more compromising position after an entire series of being top. Two lost battles isn't enough imo.
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#14)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Either route is possible, just theorizing. Though having written, foreshadowing isn't
> just always used when it's convenient. It just comes off that way if written well
> haha
>
> But who knows, we'll see. Drogon would have to be the dragon to die imo - him being
> dead would raise the stakes a bunch. Dany needs to be put into a more compromising
> position after an entire series of being top. Two lost battles isn't enough imo.
>


You can point to hundreds of examples of possible or perceived foreshadowing that is never used for anything on this show. This will likely be another instance, just as all the poisoning of the Sand Snakes didn't impact Euron because he's still important to the show. Losing one dragon does put her in a more compromising position, the smaller two less so, of course. Anything can happen, but I'd happily bet money that Drogon isn't poisoned.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#15)
No need to bet money on anything lol. It's very possible that he isn't.
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Aug-2017(#16)
I'm not offering to make a bet with you, just saying that I'm confident enough to do so in general. I think the odds that he is poisoned are next to nothing.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Aug-2017(#17)
Yeah, I got that haha
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Aug-2017(#18)
@InfiniteJest
I have to ask. The reason you're so sure Drogon isn't poisoned wouldn't happen to be because you've seen/read up on leaks, right?

Also, on the subject of equality between Jaime and Brienne, this redditor does a great job breaking down their character dynamic for those interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1dpavm/sp...

Wall of text in coming ps.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 12-Aug-2017(#19)
image

THE SPOILS OF WAR

Battle of the... Loot Train... Could have done with a better name but this may have been the best scene in GOT history. It's at the very least the most technically sound. It was awesome to finally see Dany storm Westeros and get her message across loud and clear. Lots of people were wondering why there weren't all 3 dragons in this battle. Aside from budgetary constraints, I imagine Dany wanted to make sure she kept the chaos to the road Jaime and co were traveling, heeding Jon Snow's advice not to just melt King's Landing. It'd be easier to do that with one fire-breathing dragon as opposed to two. I know the gold already got to King's Landing, so I'm wondering if there will be any importance put on what was actually in the loot train we saw get effed up. Food and grain is always important, especially when Sansa has been trying to secure some for Winterfell, but I'm interested to see how it plays into the story going forward, if it does at all.

Jaime's a hero Regardless as to whether you're behind Dany or not, looking at this scene from Jaime's shoes firmly establishes him as one of the major heroes of this story. In a world where there is no black and white, where people live in gray areas, Jaime has really earned his stripes here. He valiantly fights alongside his men after having numerous chances to flee, and he attempts to end the war by slaying Dany the same way he effectively ended Robert's Rebellion by slaying the Mad King. Rushing headstrong toward a dragon give Jaime balls of steel, even if those may be weighing him down to the bottom of a lake at the moment. I imagine Bronn will surface, take a breath, then get Jaime out of danger. We saw pretty much the entirety of that lake in the wide shot after they went under, and it looked like the ground was fairly close to Jaime during the final shot of the episode. While it's almost comically deep, it looks just shallow enough that an attempted rescue isn't out of the question.

Bronn's a badass Speaking of Bronn, he also earned his stripes in a big way. Listen, I don't want to see a dragon go down (though I think one will eventually) but seeing Bronn overcome his fear to smirk at a dragon diving directly toward him may have been one of the most badass shots of the series. I loved the way this episode pitted popular character vs. popular character as it created this uncertainty to the outcome - something that is missing from a lot of shows these days. From the tracking shot, to Bronn deciding to leave the gold in favor of helping the Lannister army, to the showdown with Drogon, Bronn has officially reached the upper-echelon of characters as far as I'm concerned. He'll be dead soon.

Finger Paintings The only issue I had with this episode were the way-too on-the-nose cave painting Jon found and showed to Dany. It was almost like a comedy the way the carvings got more detailed the more Jon showed Dany. Started out with the fairly ancient-looking spirals and designs that we've spread through the series, then moved onto slightly more detailed drawings of the Children and First Men, until finally, we get super-obvious, full-color carvings of White Walkers in a way that could absolutely not be interpreted in any other way than "Oh, these are White Walkers." Even cave paintings in real life aren't so on-the-nose that people can tell what they are immediately. It takes studying and geographical knowledge to figure it out. Here, there was no room for mystique. These were blue white walkers drawn in chalk. Could've done without.

Theon Returns Nice little reunion that I barely even thought about. Jon wanted to murk Theon so bad. There was a nice intensity in this short scene and I think it'll probably open up a plot point for Theon to take his Iron Born group and attempt a small breakout the same way Yara tried to save him from Ramsay. It'll be interesting to see how these Iron Born treat or follow Theon, and even more interesting to see if Theon can redeem himself in any way before he's inevitably offed.

Bran v Littlefinger This was another fun scene between two characters that I didn't necessarily care to see interact simply because I hadn't really thought about it much. Cool to see Littlefinger reintroduce the valyrian steel dagger that almost killed Bran, but even cooler to see Bran out-talk Littlefinger just by saying his catch phrase. We're really seeing the crumbling of everything Littlefinger has worked for in this season. He never counted on the Stark children to be running Winterfell and you can tell he's fumbling to work his ways over Bran and Arya now that they're back. We saw him try to cozy up to Bran in this scene, and then he bows to Arya a little later on. I don't think anyone is falling for it though, and hopefully Arya adds his face to his collection eventually. Still wish we knew the details to how that magic worked, though.

Don't Let the Door Hit Your Ass On the Way Out Poor Meera. For a long time, I figured Meera would act as Bran's link to his humanity. I thought that no matter how weird Bran got with these abilities, it'd be Meera to keep him grounded. Looks like her purpose is the exact opposite of that, and is intended to show us just how much Bran has changed. Her leaving after such a cold send-off from Bran really hits the point home: Bran is no longer Bran, but a much more ancient entity who just happened to remember Bran's life among the history of the planet. Wild stuff. I'm into it.

Arya v Brienne We've all already talked at length about this scene. I thought it was awesome to see these two square off for fun. It's 100% fan service. Many podcasters I've listened to consider Brienne among the top tier fighters in Westeros (yeah yeah, I know) so the question is: Where does Arya fall on that list? It'll be interesting to see how this sparring match holds relevance to the future of Arya's character. How much fighting will we actually see out of her now that the show has established how good she is on her feet? Has me pumped for whatever's to come.

The Golden Company Cersei is paying back the Iron Bank and is looking to bring in the Golden Company. The history of this group is super interesting, and their role in the book series is a lot larger than it has been in the show (since i'm pretty sure this episode is the first big reference to them joining the story). I'm wondering how the show runners will handle this. Hoping they don't pull a Dorne and try to shoe-horn the primary book details into the little time remaining, because that'd included the whole Fake Targaryen thing. I imagine the Golden Company will just act as more troops for Cersei now that a good portion of her army has been roasted. This whole season has been about power-plays that keep one character with the "1 up" over another. Cersei has been working her way to Dany's level, then surpassed it until Dany brought her dragon to The Reach, and now she'll need the Golden Company to reestablish that position.

Lady Stoneheart Easter Egg So lots of folks think that there's a Catelyn Stark/Lady Stoneheart easter egg in this episode, and I'm inclined to agree. Right as Arya says the word "mother" while talking to Brienne, in reference to Lady Catelyn, an ominous looking red-haired woman in a very Catelyn-like green robe walks past the doorway behind her. It's interesting because of the timing in correspondence with the word "mother," the fact that Brienne/Pod play a role in Stoneheart's story from the books, and the fact that other than Brienne, Pod and Arya, this woman is the only other person in the shot. I don't think that this means Catelyn or Stoneheart will appear full-on in the show, but I do think it was an intentional nod to the character and her place in the books. I consider this easter egg "the ghost of Catelyn Stark," checking in on her daughters after Brienne had fulfilled her oath.

Definitely not an actual plot point, but still a fun, and kind of creepy, little moment. Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoidcuzUeTk
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Aug-2017(#20)
I should legitimately be embarrassed at how long these posts get.
Jersiah
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Aug-2017(#21)
I just like that my own long posts from back in the day, which are very rare now, look so much better by contrast. I thank for that!
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Aug-2017(#22)
I'm into the whole analyzing thing haha. Good stories are my weakness.
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
12-Aug-2017(#23)
theJAwwww wrote:
> @InfiniteJest
> I have to ask. The reason you're so sure Drogon isn't poisoned wouldn't happen to
> be because you've seen/read up on leaks, right?
>

No, I don't follow any leaks, I might watch if an entire episode leaked in HD, but I'd never read a text leak, that's lame. I'm sure because it just makes no sense whatsoever to me. The only reason to even suspect that it might be possible is because Qyburn helped her poison Tyene, I guess? Pycell always had tons of poisons himself (couldn't shut up about it in Tyrion's trial) and Olenna was only poisoned because Jaime requested that she die with dignity and no pain. Just seems like a massive stretch to me.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Aug-2017(#24)
It's just a theory and the clues hinting at it, I've already mentioned. I don't find it to be nearly as large a stretch, but it very likely won't happen. No reason to dwell on it, just throwing around ideas. I just had to ask because of your certainty and all haha
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 13-Aug-2017(#25)
What changed your opinion on the poisoning? I thought you were all in on that theory when you said: "...it's almost been foreshadowed a little too much - if it doesn't happen, that'd be a swerve..."

Anyway, I really liked the episode overall, but I thought it was pretty cheap that Bronn survived. He jumped only a short distance from the scorpion and somehow survived a huge burst of dragon fire. He was clearly in the area and it even showed a close-up of him with a small weak little flame around him. The stuff melts steel, stone, etc. but not a beloved character. Just took me out of the episode a bit there, but not a huge deal. Although, I'm not upset at all that he's alive, I like his character.

I also don't think the act of his leaving the gold was in favor of helping the Lannister army. I think the chief concern for him was self preservation. When he's knocked off the horse, he looks over to the gold then looks back at the rider that just dropped his horse. The rider rounds and starts to charge back at him, he takes another look at the gold, has a disgusted look on his face and gets up to run in the opposite direction. There's no way he could've gotten to the gold, collected it and made it away before the Dothraki rider cut him down, so he fled. If he could have grabbed the money, I have no doubts that he would have. Bronn has never pretended to be an honorable man at all, I think he'll do anything to anyone if the money is good enough and clearly cares about himself above all others. That's my read on it anyway.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 13-Aug-2017(#26)
Your infinite wisdom changed me man. Huge, major kudos to you for rightfully snuffing out that theory over the course of 5 posts. You've done it, you won the internet! I can't believe I ever even considered something so outlandish!
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 13-Aug-2017(#27)
Seems like you're being pretty insecure and getting defensive here for no reason. I legitimately just wondered what changed your mind, you seemed like you had a pretty strong opinion one way and now it's the opposite. I thought this was a discussion thread. RELAX.
dracula
Triple Gold Good Trader Has Written 7 Reviews
(restricted)
13-Aug-2017(#28)
I've read all the leaks for the season. All I can say is "meh, about what all of us were suspecting". The series has dropped any sort of depth or layers and seems to be just rushing to a conclusion.

For example, one of the theories from about 3 seasons ago was that Missandi was either a spy for the sons of the Harpy, or perhaps the leader of the sons of the Harpy. That would have added a lot of depth to her character, and been a total swerve when it was revealed, and I guess could still happen in the books. Or could be an agent of Varys or LF. But now she is just sort of there and trying to have sex with a eunich. You tell me, which would have been more interesting for her character?
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 13-Aug-2017(#29)
InfiniteJest wrote:
> Seems like you're being pretty insecure and getting defensive here for no reason.
> I legitimately just wondered what changed your mind, you seemed like you had a pretty
> strong opinion one way and now it's the opposite. I thought this was a discussion
> thread. RELAX.

Lol dude I was fudging around. Just being sarcastic with you.

Although it is a little obvious when you state the same thing in 5 posts, and then quote me word for word to remind me how into the theory I was after I agreed it may not happen. Let's not pretend you weren't just posting the same sentiment over and over to not gain some superior footing as it relates to my theory haha. If it's blatant, just own it, my feelings aren't hurt. You're likely right regardless to how you go about presenting your thoughts.

Anyhow, apologies for my sarcastic joke.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 13-Aug-2017(#30)
@dracula Messendai being a Harpy wouldn't have made sense. Swerves aren't always the best route to take it. She was a slave girl who knew nothing of being free until Dany came along and freed her. For her to turn her back on her so that masters, people very similar to those who kept her chains, could overthrow Dany would have been the lamest swerve I could imagine coming from that plotline.

We're also trying not to talk about the leaks here. You saying you've read the leaks and suggesting we temper our expectations is part of why we'd rather whoever read the leaks keep it to themselves.

And it seems like they're rushing to an end because they are. They're still producing a better TV show than most of what's out there.
dracula
Triple Gold Good Trader Has Written 7 Reviews
(restricted)
13-Aug-2017(#31)
marco polo was way better, but got cancelled because it cost so much to make. Very similar to the early seasons of GoT, Kublai Khan is like Robert Baratheon, there are some people pulling the strings as well and political subterfuge.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#32)
I heard awful things about that show but was very interested, so I may check it out on your recommendation. GOT got lucky that it wasn't cancelled for budgetary reasons in the early going like Deadwood or Carnivale.

Deadwood's at least getting a finale movie, but gosh darn, what Carnivale could've been...
Jersiah
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
13-Aug-2017(#33)
Rome was an amazing show that unfortunately got cancelled for budgetary reasons. We rewatch it every 2-3 years or so. If you haven't seen it, i highly recommend it.
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
13-Aug-2017(#34)
Loved Rome. But you could tell it probably had to have a massive budget.

Karaiya
Has Written 1 Review
(abandoned)
13-Aug-2017(#35)
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#36)
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#37)
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
13-Aug-2017(#38)
Image doesn't show. Preview Game of Thrones put up on Facebook gives me shivers. Jon Snow looking head on at Drogon. I think it's gonna come out soon!

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#39)
Yah they're not showing for me on mobile either, but they work on my computer for some reason. Oh well.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#40)
Fun episode for sure. Littlefinger seems like he may be more aware of his surroundings than any of us thought initially. Jon and company are heading North and I cannot wait to see what happens there.

And I can only imagine how full of rage anyone upset about "jetpacking" is with this episode lol

Jersiah
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
13-Aug-2017(#41)
Last episode may have proved that arya can whup Brienne's butt but this one proved that she's not nearly as stealthy an assassin as she thinks she is.

Next week's episode is gonna be insane.
Guru
Double Gold Good Trader Has Written 16 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
13-Aug-2017(#42)
So is Theon just chillin at Dragonstone?
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#43)
Yeah I was a little thrown off at the lack of Theon. Jon buried him.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
13-Aug-2017(#44)
Also, I missed this in the episode but an article helped me out: the note Arya found in Littlefinger's high school boy's porno spot was the note Cersei made Sansa write to Robb Stark in Season 1. In it, Sansa explains to Robb that Ned had been taken captive for treason and begs him to bend the knee to Cersei and Joffrey.

Given the fact that we know Littlefinger planted that note there to be found, it looks like this could cause some real strain between the Stark girls, and next week's preview tends to add credence to that idea.

OR in the direction I'd rather it take, maybe the preview is intentionally misleading in its foreboding nature. Hopefully Sansa and Arya see through the obvious attempt at playing them against one another (possibly with the help of Bran) and Littlefinger ends up overplaying this particular hand to fatal consequences.
King_link
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
(abandoned)
13-Aug-2017(#45)
Baratheon and Stark together again! Such an awesome nod to their fathers and their friendship.

I liked the snippet Gilly got out about Prince Rhaegar's secret wedding before Sam goes on his crap rant.
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug-2017(#46)
Oh man... Dany's face when Drogon allowed Jon to pet him.

Cersei is pregnant! Now it's gonna be sad sorta when she dies.

Littlefinger vs Arya... damn spy vs spy.

I'm not sure what it is that Arya thinks Sansa was thinking about, other than ruling but she already sort of is?


TerrHeel
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug-2017(#47)
I think Cersei is full of crap about being pregnant. She knows that Jaime might be wavering in his commitment after getting torched by Drogon, so this is her way of ensuring his loyalty to her cause. By time he could figure out it's a lie, everything will have gone down one way or another. I'm not buying it for a second.
The_Prophecy
Has Written 1 Review
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14-Aug-2017(#48)
Crap is going to get real next week. Some characters are going to die.
DarkFact
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
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14-Aug-2017(#49)
I REALLY need to stop clicking this fudging link on Sundays
InfiniteJest
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 14-Aug-2017(#50)
TerrHeel wrote:
> I think Cersei is full of crap about being pregnant. She knows that Jaime might
> be wavering in his commitment after getting torched by Drogon, so this is her way
> of ensuring his loyalty to her cause. By time he could figure out it's a lie, everything
> will have gone down one way or another. I'm not buying it for a second.

I think it's the truth. Lying about being pregnant will only work for about 4 months and she appears ready to agree to an armistice for a while. I don't think the ~4 months that the lie would allow her is nearly enough time.
dracula
Triple Gold Good Trader Has Written 7 Reviews
(restricted)
14-Aug-2017(#51)
I doubt it's a lie as well. Next week's episode is a good one(already read the leaked script), this is just setting it up
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 14-Aug-2017(#52)
@dracula can you please stop bringing up the leaks? Thank you for not spoiling anything but most folks like to go into these episodes cold with no expectations. Consistently bringing up how you think people will feel sort of changes that equation.

Anyhow, will post up my usual idiotic wall of text later, complete with some things I didn't like about this episode.
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug-2017(#53)
The_Prophecy wrote:
> Crap is going to get real next week. Some characters are going to die.

I got this feeling of worry too as Jon and the rest set sail for Eastwatch.

sinnie
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14-Aug-2017(#54)
I'm super excited Gendry is back too. I hope he's got a good role to play. I didn't like how he just disappeared but always loved that Davos saved him. Brilliant to say "thought you were still rowing." and super happy he decided to NOT lie to Jon.

TerrHeel
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14-Aug-2017(#55)
I'm with Jawww on this one. Don't make any mention at all of the leaks, because you give things away whether you mean to or not. I don't want to have to ignore this thread because I'm worried about seeing one of your posts.
theJaw
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14-Aug-2017(#56)
image

EASTWATCH

Time Leaps Firstly right off the bat, the time gaps in this episode were probably the most jarring for me out of the entire series. Jon starts at Dragonstone and by the end of the episode is marching past the wall with his group. The geography isn't too rough though, considering Eastwatch would be more or less a straight shot north, but it still seemed like an incredible amount of travel to have taken place in the very center of the episode.

The White Walker Plot They're going to hijack a white walker up North to convince Cersei. I don't think Cersei will give a fudge to be honest, but I'm not wholly convinced she'll live long enough to see this pan out. With that in mind, I imagine from the footage in the first S7 trailer, Jon is forced to at the very least flee the battle alone - which likely means the plan doesn't work completely perfectly.

The Incredible Floating Armor Super nice to see Bronn saved Jaime, would have been nicer to see Bronn save Jaime. This is one of my main gripes with the episode. Jaime was sinking to the legitimate bottom of the lake, and Bronn was swimming upwards, but when we next meet them they're like 2 miles away on the opposite side of the body of water. Bronn dove down there, dragged him across the lake, all while Jaime was in armor? At the very least, they could have made it a point to see them climb out near the carnage, only to escape while Dany is a distance away on the battlefield. This was almost too much of a stretch for me, but I'm not about to start questioning the show at this point. It was nice to see Bronn bring up how he's fudging off if Jaime doesn't come through for him, even though it doesn't seem to matter much. The cinematography was great in this scene though, with the smoldering background with Jaime staring off at it looked like a classic fantasy painting.

The Final Tarly Sam outlasted his prick father and noble-to-a-fault brother. Atta boy bud. While Dany wasn't mad with anger or anything, I don't really feel like Dany was "Mad Queen" status, but her love of burning folks alive is real fudgeed up. I think Tyrion recognized that. It wasn't the straw, but Tyrion now realized Dany could just as easily be ruthless. It's interesting how both Lannister brothers are questioning their queens in this episode.

Jon's a Boss A) He touches Drogon in a legitimately badass scene with extremely weighty undertones. I wonder if Ghost would smell Drogon on Jon. Unfortunately it looks like Ghost is straight up out of Season 7. The dog who played him sadly passed away and we haven't seen one shot of him yet. I imagine he'll pop back up eventually, but with the big budget, I was really hoping this would be a Jon+Ghost "boy and his pup" adventure haha. B) Telling Dany to fudge off, reminding her that he's a King, was classic Jon Snow. Good stuff.

Jorah Reborn Cool to see Jorah find his way to Dragonstone. Anything with him and Dany in this episode was very touching, and Emelia Clarke did good conveying emotion in a rare turn of events. I fear for Jorah, because he's almost definitely dead after that longing look to Dany.

Gendry Reborn Also cool to see the little Baratheon back. While it's pointless to mention, everything with this character was rushed x100 to get him to be an integral part of this death squad heading North of the Wall. The performance was great, the actor nailed his little moments and the hammer bashing ruled, but getting Gendry from once again being a lowly blacksmith, to saving the day by saving Tryion, to meeting back up with the Brotherhood without Banners, and to finally heading North of the Wall - and it seems like 4 seasons worth of character moments happened all in one episode. On top of that, we got a slight Stark/Baratheon reunion here - and while the dialogue and acting was great, that also seemed a little forced considering Gendry had been missing for so long.

Sansa could be cooler & Arya could be smarter Unless this is an elaborate plot to trick Littlefinger (which wouldn't really make sense given the angry private chats from this episode), both Stark girls are acting foolish. Sansa should stop second-guessing Jon and listening to Baelish, and Arya should know better than to so blatantly trail someone like Baelish. I do feel like maybe Arya is playing him, and Sansa will end up having to decide whether to grant him mercy (and ultimately attempt to establish control over the North for herself) or let Arya wreck him (and ultimately prove her loyalty to family). I sure hope Arya catches onto Littlefinger, and he ends up getting offed.

Tyrion meets Jaime... cool... I will say, this was quite the anticlimactic meeting between these two. It was nice to see them play off each other again and the tension was there for a bit but man, this felt like it could have been much more.

Olenna killed Joffrey Seeing Cersei get this information was great, and her reacting really helped push her eventual rise to "Mad" Queen status. She's so power hungry, but the bad news keeps piling on regardless. Now Jaime's questioning her, and she reminds him that a "soldier should know his choice" (or something along those lines). I imagine this is foreshadowing, and Jaime's choice will eventually be to fulfill that old prophecy. Unless...

Cersei Breaks the Prophecy? If she gives birth, then that would effectively null the prophecy Maggie the Toad revealed to her. But I doubt it. I think the "and when you're drowning in tears" aspect of the prophecy (that was left out of the show, likely to keep some semblance of mystery) will be when she loses this baby and Jaime will then finish it by mercy killing her. There is a chance she's just playing Jaime and that could lead to the Jaime thing - but considering Cersei didn't really weep for Tommen whatsoever, I feel like she still needs those tears to roll first.

Bronn's a goner Looks like Cersei has it out for Bronn now, and I feel like Jaime is still too brainwashed by Cersei to not kill him at her request. Which is unfortunate, Bronn deserves a better death than being betrayed by Jaime (who would have killed him without paying his debt) - especially since Jaime should already have been done with Cersei after the events of Season 6's finale.

Sam Fudges Off Pt XI Sam just keeps fudging off from places. First, he fudges off from the Night's Watch to become a maester. Then he fudges off from his family home with their sword. And now he's fudging off from the Citadel. I don't blame him after getting his stories of white walkers shrugged off, but I wonder if he plans to go directly back to the Wall now or what. Maybe he just chills at his castle now. I'm hoping he took that R+L=J scroll with him when he left, so that he can reread the passage he raged over, put 2+2 together, and head back to Jon to finally reveal his lineage.

Jon and his hunting party Kind of anticlimactic ending - you'd think with the name of the episode, something would have happened past just the team up. But I guess it did happen at Eastwatch so there's that. Jon, Jorah, Gendry, The Hound, Thoros, Dondarion and Tormund. A true all-star badass team. And an extremely random group of popular secondary characters given the series up to this point, which totally makes me feel like this is going to end up being GOT's opportunity to wipe all of them off the board in one fell, tragic swoop. That would absolutely give the White Walkers some true stakes in why we, the viewer, should hate them so hard. I understand why the characters of the story should, but they haven't really had any major effect on our main cast. So it'll be horrifying to see them take out some of the best.
The_Prophecy
Has Written 1 Review
(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#57)
What about Davos going from Dragonstone, to King's Landing, back to Dragonstone, and then to Eastwatch?

Also, where the fudge was Theon in this episode?
InfiniteJest
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15-Aug-2017(#58)
Dragonstone isn't very far from King's Landing at all. Eastwatch is another story.
DarkFact
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
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15-Aug-2017(#59)
For the sake of pacing, I loved the last episode. Three seasons ago we would have been still talking to Jon talking to Davos on a boat headed to Dragonstone for the first time.
Osiris

(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#60)
so anyway, is Jon Snow of Targaryian descent in some way?
I am ignorant of the mythology, still think Brienne and Jamie are meant to be together.

What deal can Cersei and Dany make?
dracula
Triple Gold Good Trader Has Written 7 Reviews
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* 15-Aug-2017(#61)
Osiris wrote:
> so anyway, is Jon Snow of Targaryian descent in some way?
> I am ignorant of the mythology, still think Brienne and Jamie are meant to be together.
>
> What deal can Cersei and Dany make?
>

Watch season 6 again, the show does a decent job of laying it all out. Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark. Their love led to the war that drove the kingdoms apart. At least in terms of the show, apparently he has a better claim to the iron throne than anyone currently alive, since rhaegar had his previous marriage annulled, married Lyanna and her son was Jon Snow.

Lyanna made Ned promise to keep this identity a secret to save the baby's life, the last thing he said before he was beheaded was "I kept my promise" or something to that effect, it was basically inaudible on the show

It sounds like Tryion, Dany, and Jon are saying that the living should all join forces to fight the dead, and that includes the Lannisters.
sinnie
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15-Aug-2017(#62)
Maybe Cersei will give birth to a dwarf.

King_link
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#63)
Osiris wrote:
> so anyway, is Jon Snow of Targaryian descent in some way?
> I am ignorant of the mythology, still think Brienne and Jamie are meant to be together.
>
> What deal can Cersei and Dany make?
>

Not much of a spoiler anymore but


Jon is most likely the child of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna stark. Rhaegar and Lyanna had a secret wedding and most likely had a child. Mostly confirmed when Bran "sees" a younger Ned accept Lyanna's child before she dies. You'll remember that Ned never discusses Jon's mom.

Osiris

(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#64)
thanks folks, saw the Bran flashback with young ned and sister, did not connect the dots at that time. cool subplot, not exactly luke and leia but fun going forward
MikeyWhoa
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15-Aug-2017(#65)
Shooting from the hip. I'm putting it in spoiler tags juuuust in case it actually happens, nobody can complain.


Things don't go great North of the Wall. Hound dies, is resurrected by Night King and now undead. Captured as evidence to show Cersei. Sent to Kings Landing. Is either intentionally set loose or breaks free in throne room. Mountain protects. Cleganebowl: Undead Nightmare.



theJaw
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15-Aug-2017(#66)
Lol THAT would be wild. I dig.
TerrHeel
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15-Aug-2017(#67)
I actually suggested to one of my friends today that maybe one of them will become the wight that they bring back but I hadn't taken it quite that far haha.
theJaw
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15-Aug-2017(#68)
I think the most likely route is all Jon's companions die (like Azor Ahai) and he meets back up with Benjen, who may be further along as far as being "dead" goes. They'll then travel back South together as proof.

I don't think Cersei will care one way or another to be honest. I feel like she's one step from being real "out there" as it is. She'll see this, and she'll still probably just attempt to kill whoever brings her the proof.

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
15-Aug-2017(#69)
Does anyone remember if Cersei knows Jaime helped Tyrion escape in Season 4? I can't recall if he told her.
InfiniteJest
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15-Aug-2017(#70)
Yes, she knows.

And everyone that goes with Jon won't die, I can't see that at all. I think Beric might eat it for real, maybe along with Thoros. And I fear a little for Jorah, but I think he makes it. I'm sure all of the nobodies that were walking behind the big group pulling the sled etc. will likely die too. Gendry, The Hound, Tormund and of course Jon are all safe in my opinion. I think a couple or more of the group will fall, but the rest will capture a wight and take it back.
theJaw
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15-Aug-2017(#71)
I'm not fully behind my "likely route" comment either, I feel at least one will survive past the battle too. But in what shape, who knows. I'm just keeping prophecies in mind in regards to what seems most likely.

I've been expecting Tormund to die since the beginning of season 6. I'm interested (and frightened) to see how he ends up.
The_Prophecy
Has Written 1 Review
(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#72)
InfiniteJest wrote:
> Dragonstone isn't very far from King's Landing at all. Eastwatch is another story.

Someone did the calculations. King's Landing to Sharp Point (almost due south of Drgonstone) is 320 miles. Sharp Point to Dragonstone is another 100 miles. That's a lot of rowing for old ass Davos.

Since we're talking about who will die in the coming expedition, it'll be Thoros and two others. The first you probably weren't expecting is Benjen. The second I don't want say, because I think almost nobody will be expecting it to happen.
InfiniteJest
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15-Aug-2017(#73)
I don't think they'll kill Tormund until Brienne finally warms up to him, make it hurt even more.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug-2017(#74)
@The_Prophecy we're posting theories about who will die. Please don't tell me you just spoiled the episode. You seem mega sure lol

I could definitely see your first name getting offed for sure
The_Prophecy
Has Written 1 Review
(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#75)
Benjen was very evident by the trailer at the beginning of the season. Jon is escaping on his horse, meaning probably not too many good things for him. Thoros is a feeling. The last one I got from a YouTuber who hasn't been wrong with his predictions yet.
theJaw
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15-Aug-2017(#76)
I don't remember seeing Benjen in the trailers, but I could be mistaken.
TerrHeel
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15-Aug-2017(#77)
Do you think he is just nailing his predictions or he just has seen the leaks?
TerrHeel
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Aug-2017(#78)
I like the idea of Benjen being the one they bring back though. I hadn't thought of that. Although he's a sentient being that isn't bad, so would that do anything to sway Cersei?

I think this plan is beyond terrible, by the way. I see no upside to it.
theJaw
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15-Aug-2017(#79)
TerrHeel wrote:
> Do you think he is just nailing his predictions or he just has seen the leaks?

Honestly just watched the trailers and there was no sign of Benjen so if that ends up happening it'll be pretty telling.
The_Prophecy
Has Written 1 Review
(abandoned)
15-Aug-2017(#80)
I don't look at the leaks.

Benjen isn't in the trailer. You see Jon on a horse, escaping. Since that obviously hasn't happened yet, it's going to happen either this week or next. Jon had assistance getting on the horse, judging by the state he appears to be in. Him escaping alone either means the entire group gets killed, or he gets separated. I'm going with the latter, because I don't think they'd kill off so many characters at once.

Benjen is going to sacrifice himself to save Jon. Not sure where you got the idea that he'd be going to King's Landing. Also, think hard for a second. The magic on The Wall means the dead can't pass through it. They're going to need a method of bypassing The Wall to get a wight back to King's Landing.

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