New foreign poster dropped featuring Luke wielding a lightsaber and the image alone got me more pumped than either trailer so far. I figure with The Last Jedi getting released in a month and change, now would be a neat time to open up some general Star Wars discussion as we wait for the movie, and then follow it up with those classic GTZ theories and reactions after we see it.
Plus I know folks hate when the movie review thread gets crammed with SW talk.
Who do you think Luke ends up fighting with his classic lightsaber? Kylo Ren? Snoke? Rey!?!? Probably Kylo.
i think the Rey "possibly" turning to the dark side thing in the trailer was misdirection, which lucasfilm is good at, TFA trailers were full of it too. going as far as making it look as if Finn was the new jedi character. i think the last Jedi is going to be intended as more of a plural thing, since as far as we know at this point that luke, rey and ben are the only ones left besides snoke? apparently they have also said there isn't going to be a big reveal as far as who snoke is or where he came from, seems like i read that somewhere, that it wasn't central to the story here, as once again we see this universe and story through the Skywalkers and Solo crew and the supporting cast.
apparently adam driver also let slip, probably on purpose in an interview that on the subject of Rey's parents that isn't as important as she thinks it is or something like that. so that could either be intentional misdirection again or it could be that she isn't a skywalker OR a Kenobi as has been previously thought. my daughter seems to think she's leia's and han's daughter but i just don't see anything to support that, they wouldn't have just left her on Jakku. also it could mean she isn't the "reincarnation" of Anakin skywalker or rather "the chosen one" created by the force. im still not going to be surprised to find it she is somehow connected to the Kenobi's and perhaps that's why leia sensed something with her, and it goes full circle, Kenobi trains skywalker, and now skywalker trains Kenobi, but i guess we will find out soon enough.
i go back and forth on how much of the old cast i think will bite the bullet in this one, but i do think we lose more to prepare the new cast to take up the helm fully and be the heroes of the conclusion of this new trilogy, much in the way luke han and leia did in the original trilogy. after hearing they aren't going to use CGI leia in ep9 after Carrie's sad passing i wonder if she bites it here, but...apparently all her ep8 work was done, and the controversy of what to do for ep9 makes it seem they were not planning on that. thinking if luke does it will be in ep9, similar to how he loses yoda. or.... he bites it very near the end, and he tells Rey to pass on what she has learned as she is now "The Last Jedi". hmmm. also similar to what happened with yoda. (when gone am i..the last of the jedi will you be...pass on what you have learned..)
While I'd kind of like some familial bond linking Rey to either the Skywalkers or Kenobis, I kind of feel like the reveal of her parentage will end up being that she was simply the daughter of two Jedi hopefuls who were at Luke's academy and who decided to get her out of harm's way when the writing was on the wall with Kylo. I'm pretty sure either Rian Johnson or Daisy Ridley said that it wasn't as huge as everyone was expecting, but Ridley assured folks that the secret of her parentage was "beautiful". They could thread some beauty in there with my theory, what with Luke lamenting his failures and eventually deciding to take Rey under his wing due to feeling like the reason she was abandoned on Jakku.
Anyone else have any theories to her bloodline? If my theory is true, then they'll have to explain away why she had such Skywalker-centric flashbacks centered around the Skywalker lightsaber. I think it's possible she's just so in-tune with the Force that she is clued into important moments in its history when faced with Jedi artifacts. This could be what they're getting at with the ancient bookshelf in the Last Jedi trailers.
I still feel like a relation to the Kenobi's is kind of sound theory, and if not then the flashbacks with the saber will not be as big a thing, but I guess we will see. all the hints and interviews say its not as a huge a revelation as people expect and isn't as important as people think. if she is the reincarnation of "the chosen one" that could explain the flashbacks as the saber was once also "the chosen one's". that could explain her uncanny attunement to the force and why she can do things she shouldn't be able to do with no training. it could also explain the way Leia seemed to know she was special, as leia being force sensitive can sense things. IGN released a thing yesterday about "here's what you need to know about the books and comics between TFU and TLJ" and it talks about Leia being able to sense the force in the baby (ben/kylo) while pregnant and about how Phasma escapes the garbage chute and her origin etc. Phasma's armor is crafted from Palpatines Naboo yacht!!
one of the leading theories im seeing online is a lot of people after playing battlefront 2 have reason to believe Iden Versio is her mother, but I don't want to look up youtubes of why til I play the campaign myself, but im not buying that game in a way that will support EA's bullcrap on it im waiting to get it a little cheaper used. this could have weight though, as an interview with daisy ridley said that despite who her parents were she is fighting for good and for the balance, leading to believe perhaps her parents were bad guys.
apparently poe damerons parents were church of the force believers or whatever and poe grew up around a force tree and there is speculation that's why he has such keen senses as a pilot.
what I DONT want to happen, is to find out that finn and poe are jedi as well, regular people also being heroes and having important roles to play is also great for star wars.
Yah I'm with you on keeping Poe and Finn regular human heroes. We need some of those with Han gone.
I read that comic that followed Poe's parents. They were big into the Force but I forget if they were actually Force sensitive. I forgot about the Force tree deal but if that remains a theory, I'll buy it. I, like you, just hope they don't feel the need to delve into it in the movies. Have him be a believer who MIGHT have been given his piloting abilities from growing up around the Force, but don't make it so he's actually capable of harnessing it like a Jedi.
@tonymack21 do you know what series the Phasma origin takes place in? Did she have her own series? Definitely interested in reading that.
As far as Iden Versio - I guess that could make sense and still possible to fit with my theory (considering what I've seen of the campaign, which isn't the whole thing admittedly) but I'd rather they not tie Iden into the primary plot like that. The story in BFII works as well as it does, for me, because it follows random characters who would only be background noise for the movies. But I'll see how her character pans out if/when I beat the campaign.
I'd much rather the theory I threw out there to keep it simple yet satisfying. A link to Skywalker/Kenobi could easily come off as a shoehorned plot point if it isn't done right, though it could definitely still be cool. I do enjoy the idea that Rey's just a new "chosen one" whose history of family tragedy helped wake the Force in her the same way it did in Anakin and Luke. Interested to see the relevance of the duality they're teasing between Rey and Kylo - maybe they eventually need to come together to form a brand new order of Force users of some kind.
> @tonymack21 do you know what series the Phasma origin takes place in? Did she have
> her own series? Definitely interested in reading that.
i'll see if I can find that IGN article again. it talked about things revealed in the books and comics that take place after ROTJ and between TFU and TLJ, well the latest ones that Disney considers canon anyway. dissolving the EU will always be criminal. the courtship of princess leia will always be one of my fav stories, along with the jedi academy trilogy and any of kevin j andersons star wars books, mara jade... I hate Disney for so many reasons but this is just one of them.
> As far as Iden Versio - I guess that could make sense and still possible to fit with
> my theory (considering what I've seen of the campaign, which isn't the whole thing
> admittedly) but I'd rather they not tie Iden into the primary plot like that. The
> story in BFII works as well as it does, for me, because it follows random characters
> who would only be background noise for the movies. But I'll see how her character
> pans out if/when I beat the campaign.
ya id rather they didn't do that either, but that interview with daisy I saw last night which I also think was an ign clip definitely made it sound like maybe she is good in spite of her heritage rather than because of it but we'll see next week! im getting more and more excited.
> I'd much rather the theory I threw out there to keep it simple yet satisfying. A
> link to Skywalker/Kenobi could easily come off as a shoehorned plot point if it isn't
> done right, though it could definitely still be cool. I do enjoy the idea that Rey's
> just a new "chosen one" whose history of family tragedy helped wake the Force in
> her the same way it did in Anakin and Luke. Interested to see the relevance of the
> duality they're teasing between Rey and Kylo - maybe they eventually need to come
> together to form a brand new order of Force users of some kind.
this just gave me an idea and new theory, that perhaps there is a duality, not of only rey and kylo, but of light and dark, the balance. daisy said in that interview she is fighting for the truth, and for the balance. light and dark exist together, maybe she can bring balance but will need kylo's help... and if she is indeed a Kenobi... then the skywalkers and Kenobi's will at least bring balance to the force...but not though a skywalker trained by a Kenobi, but rather a Kenobi trained by a skywalker.. but the idea that rey and kylo eventually end up on the same side fighting the first order using light and dark is a neat idea and I could see it.
speaking of the first order, it was revealed in that article as well that the first order is actually a contingency plan by the emperor should the empire fall, the first order was the back up plan to maintain rule. apparently Hux's father was part of its planning or execution. that article was pretty sick I need to get back on IGN and find it again.
Ohhhh why bother hating Disney over the EU? You seem to enjoy what Disney is doing with the movies - none of that would be possible if they kept the EU. Of course buying the Star Wars franchise means that they'd use the popular old school characters as primary marketing tools. They wouldn't have been able to do that if they kept the EU as it was. Hell, Chewie would be dead! I appreciated the EU during the 90s for what it was - a way to keep SW alive (the Thrawn trilogy is one of my all-time favorite graphic novel stories, let alone SW story) - but it didn't take long for it to get contrived to no end. Especially around the time the prequels were being released and comics/games/novels were being released like every week. SO many bad stories, poor characters and silly missteps in mythos. The way they consistently rehashed the Emperor may have been one of my biggest peeves. There were some great stories for sure (like the ones you mentioned) but the vast majority of it was completely avoidable.
So I'm sure there are plenty of reasons to hate Disney but I can't agree on that one. I'd take watching live action versions of Han and Chewie board the Millenium Falcon in TFA 30 years after ANH over anything from the original EU to be honest. Plus they make a conscious effort to honor the best aspects of the EU (Thrawn is a good example), and the new EU that they've churned out via books & comics had been pretty great so far. So can't complain there.
Though the EU callbacks make me feel like Kylo and Rey will end up related somehow aka the Solo kids from the EU. Like you, the speculation is getting me hyped up for sure.
I kinda expect chewie to die in this one, along with several more of the old characters so the new ones can take the spotlight and be the heroes of ep9, kinda like in the older trilogy how obi wan and yoda died so the youth could inherit it. maybe not though, chewie is pretty popular. but that could be a really powerful scene if they play it right, maybe he sacrifices himself to save leia or something, but I kinda think shes gonna bite it too as at one point her kids were apparently ok with her being CG'd into ep9 and now last I heard they were not, so sadly our princess may have to go join her prince.
and I do like these new movies (movie in the singular so far..? unless you count rogue one, which I loved, that end scene with cgi was hype af) so far. I would have taken the good portions of the EU adapted into movies over this so far, but this movie may change that. Thrawn is indeed sick. but I agree a lot of it got rougher and the quality started falling there at a point, but what was good was SOOO good.
id love to see another set of movies go waaaay back to the time of exar kun and the knights of the old republic era.
and ya the solo kids, I could see rey and kylo eventually ending up like we talked about, related somehow and the key to the balance, and it turning out the jedi didn't realize it would take a light and dark user to balance it, as one cant exist without the other.
> Wasn't there a spoiler leak that Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin, as Anakin was
> whoever came before him, and that's why she has power of that level without training.
> Also explaining her techie nature and pilot skills?
> Not to mention the lightsaber calling to her?
> That the force will continue to reincarnate itself until it's balanced?
> I just don't know the validity of the spoilers.
yes this is a leading theory, that the "chosen one" has been recreated by the force before, and they found Anakin, but when he fell to the dark side and failed, the force had to create another, and it would explain so much if that is indeed Rey.
I had held that she was luke's daughter for awhile, and had perhaps been placed on jakku for her own protection in the same way he was on tattooine, hence the saber and her natural aptitude, and leia immediately realizing something was special about her, but I am now more into this theory of being the chosen one and leia being force sensitive could tell she was special somehow and how the saber called her etc. as it doesn't make sense they would do that and not have someone closely watching her and luke was left with family not just on his own. and If she was left in someones care and they left or died they wouldn't have just left her there after that.
I haven't played battlefront 2 yet to see why so many people online have cause to think that Iden Versio (the imperial from the campaign mode) is Rey's mother, and her love interest in the game her father, but that theory is catching some traction.
see I think that would be awful and I hope they don't do that, poe and finn need to be regular guys, han gave us that regular guy who was still instrumental to the story and the victory without being a jedi. characters like han, leia (even though shes sensitive), poe, finn, boba fett, make star wars awesome as much as the jedi and sith.
but yes If she is truly the reincarnation of the chosen one, it would add a big dynamic to the rey/kylo thing.
they are so good at misdirection, in interviews, in trailers, etc. daisy said rey has parents, but she may have meant that in a general sense, not literal.
that's what im thinking, the chosen one will need both to bring balance. whereas the jedi thought the chosen would destroy the sith and the dark side, the CS is actually supposed to bring the dark and light into balance. this could be a big thing for the Rey/Kylo dynamic as she will help him come back from the dark side while balancing it herself, or something. luke did this in the old EU, he went dark and came back and had traits of both.
I'm wondering if The Last Jedi makes any allusion to the mislead Jedi of the prequel trilogy. It was always my theory that at some point before the PT, a Jedi (or a group of Jedi) rose to prominence but were more-or-less fraudulent in their understanding of the Force. If true, the misguided nature of these Jedi and their teachings would have had devastating effects on the Jedi order, and that's why they all come off as overly-stoic cardboard cultists in the prequel trilogy, who are unable to detect the Dark Side in Palpatine or truly foresee what Anakin would become. I always believed that as well-intended people as they were, guys like Qui-Gon and Mace Windu were preaching a wholly "off" interpretation of the Force, which acts as a good "explain away" for why the Jedi teachings and etiquette seen in the prequels are so radically different from what is shown and alluded to in the Original Trilogy.
In Rebels, Ezra talks with the Force ghost of Yoda who just about confirms my theory when he shows visions of prequel-era Jedi during Attack of the Clones and suggests that the Jedi order were corrupted and "overcome by the Dark Side" during that period in history. It was pretty much a cautionary tale to Ezra to warn him to forge his own path in his Jedi teachings. Personally, this helps me appreciate the PT a bit more even if I still think they're horribly made. The "Fall of the Jedi" fan-edits at least become even better. It can be deduced that since his Force ghost knew of the corruption, that Yoda learned this by the time he died. I like to believe he learned of it before the OT takes place, which explains away why he chooses to train Luke in such a different way than what was "protocol" with the Jedi padawans we see in the PT.
It's never confirmed who or what "overcame" the Jedi, or when it happened, to make the Order so misguided and unable to control their own destiny by the time of Episodes I-III. So while it's now canon that there was Dark Side deception within the Jedi during the prequel era, the whens, whys and hows still need to be answered. I'm wondering if Luke will mention any of this considering he has been hanging out at the First Jedi Temple, and apparently found a nice collection of ancient Jedi books which could theoretically contain the most "pure" Jedi teachings.
> be intended as more of a plural thing, since as far as we know at this point that
> luke, rey and ben are the only ones left besides snoke?
This is an older post, but I just saw it now. It should be noted that "Jedi" in the title is indeed intended to be plural. In english, we just use "Jedi" for singular and plural. But, in some foreign countries, they use different words. In any case, on the foreign posters, the word used for "Jedi" is the plural version. So, they definitely mean multiple "last" Jedi.
@John Actually Rian Johnson said on Jimmy Kimmel recently: "In my mind it was always singular cause in my mind it always referred to Luke as the last Jedi."
And then Kimmel makes a joke "Okay so it's one, would Jedi have 2 i's?" etc etc.
So it looks like Rian always had Luke in mind as the "last Jedi", the whole plural thing must have just been foreign markets guessing. Considering Rian wrote the movie, looks like that debate is put to rest haha
That is interesting. I remember it being a huge deal months ago waiting for the foreign posters to come out to clarify that -- and when they came out as plural, everyone was like "Ok, cool, so they don't just mean Luke!"
Now it looks like marketing just did a bad job with the foreign posters.
Don't forget everyone stay off social media til you have seen this. Spoilers could start any moment and they will be everywhere even mixed into things that don't even look star wars related. I got spoiled on TFA on a meme about Twinkies lol.
Social media blackout begins now! I won't be able to see it till tomorrow afternoon. Goosebumps already thinking about that theme starting up!!
One tiny ship destroyed two Star Destroyers in Rogue One. One ship in this movie destroyed the only Mega Star Destroyer, a ship 3 times fudging bigger than a Super Star Destroyer. Not to geek out space ship sizes, but if you can blow up Snoke's ship with a random crusier pointed at it, why bother with conventional weapons like bombs and lasers at all? Small kamikaze ships piloted by droids should be the resistance's only weapon at this point. Throw a droid into a ship, point it at something, really, really big, and you win! Maybe they could've used this tactic to blow up the Death Stars in the first place.
Worst of the series Imo. I'm literally shocked. Choppy editing, poor plot, oddball decisions, bad acting from the newcomers, dumb dialogue, pointless exposition, Star trek problem solving, and the blue milk scene. HOLY WTF.
This was my real long review from the review thread:
Star Wars: The Last Jedi - 8/10 Breaking it down via random bullet points in an apparent short novella. Real long-winded movie review, but that's classic me. Despite the length, I still feel there are things I'd like to mention. But these are the important ones.
Things I liked:
-Strong performances all around and an, honestly, extremely dense plot. It strays quite a bit from the normal structure of a Star Wars movie, or at least that's how it felt. That's not at all a bad thing, I enjoyed the change-ups this movie went through. -The murder of Snoke was great. Kylo going "big bad" was something I didn't see coming. I was expecting him to either turn good, or remain conflicted under Snoke. Seeing him emerge the "true" bad guy was a refreshing development. -I'm relieved Snoke died without any contrived backstory tying in an older character. I think it was revealed in supplemental material that he was simply the "back up" the Empire had if Palpatine died. Not sure of the specifics, because not many were released, but there's something like that out there. Anyhow, I enjoyed him just being another creepy looking baddie in the Star Wars universe. -The Kylo Ren/Rey tag team a real treat for any Star Wars fan to watch. I loved the moral ambiguity coursing through Kylo Ren during the first half of the movie before he goes all-the-way bad. Also enjoy how Rey and Kylo play off each other as true "heirs" to the Force in the universe. - Rey's lineage reveal was fine. Like I said in my Last Jedi thread, I think a link to Skywalker or Obi-Wan would have been cool but it wasn't needed. I kind of enjoy that the Force woke up in her without it tying to the Skywalker lineage. Kylo Ren truly is the last of that blood line, and it unfortunately looks like it ends up on the side of the Dark. I enjoyed them avoiding the cliches that everyone "saw coming", though I guess it's possible he's lying to her to make her emotional enough to join her. I hope that's not the case. -Mark Hamill as Luke was so nostalgic to watch, even when he was being a grump. He did a great job in this movie, and wasn't anything like the whiny dude we met in A New Hope. Teared up hard when R2 showed Luke the old "help me Obi-wan, you're my only hope" hologram, can't lie. -Fudging Yoda ruled. THIS was a Yoda accurate to the source material: the original trilogy. He's a prankster with deep wisdom - not just a stoic philosopher who occasionally did ninja tricks. -Luke's spiel about the Jedi during the prequel era and his tree-burning sequence with Yoda (and all the dialogue sprinkled throughout those segments) solidified the idea that the prequel Jedi were flawed beyond reason. In Rebels, Yoda confirms that they were overcome by the Dark Side during that period and his burning of the tree in Last Jedi was just reaffirmation that what we saw in the prequels, and apparently the way the Jedi acted since the writing of the ancient texts, were flawed. My original theory was that they were misguided by a prominent Jedi, but it appears that this may have happened during the very founding of the Jedi order. It's clear there are examples of Jedi training in the fashion Luke and Rey did, but this movie also made it blatant that Jedi were flawed pretty much from the start. Luke's own admittance of the Force "not belong(ing) to the Jedi" hammers that home. -HOWEVER, this movie also restores the Force to what it's supposed to be. A force that surrounds and exists everywhere, and within anyone, and that creates a balance in the Universe. It seems Jedi and Sith are simply the vessels in which this balance clashes. I really loved the way they honed in on what the Force actually is in this movie. -Leia finally using the force was fudging great. Leia in general was great. She still didn't emote really as well as she did in the 70s/80s but she was a lot better than her Force Awakens outing (of which I was still a big fan). I'm happy that Leia didn't die in this movie, and that we finally got that beautiful Force moment before it was too late. I really honestly got a bit teary eyed seeing it. It also works that she had the remaining Resistance follow Poe in the third act, as now it can be written off as Leia "retiring" or keeping an eye on things "from afar" by the time Episode IX rolls around, by which time I imagine Poe will officially be General Dameron. -Just going to throw it here, I enjoyed Poe's arc even if it seemed a little less-important overall. He learned a good lesson so the character development was appreciated, but then he got caught up in a mutiny plot while all this other, bigger stuff was going on. Oscar Isaac played it to a tee of course, so it was entertaining nonetheless, there were just more pressing matters happening in the movie. -Finn and Rose's story was fun, even if it took a bit of a dip in the second act (see below). Interested to see where they take this relationship in Episode IX. Rose was a good addition to the main roster, I dug her. -The cutesy-ness of the porgs was saved to a minimum which worked for the little fellas. Seeing the OG droids C-3PO and R2-D2 have larger roles tan TFA was real fun. But, I honestly hate to say it, BB-8 did come off a liiitttlle too convenient at times (looking at you Walker scene). -The lack of lightsabers made the weapon seem important. They seemed extremely deadly when used, but this movie didn't revolve around any classic one-on-one duel. I appreciated the third act being a little different in that sense.
Things I liked less:
-Phasma's death was a little painful. She truly is the Boba Fett of the new trilogy. Shows up, looks cool for a bit, has very minimal combat and is bested quickly. At least she got a showdown and a soldier's death as opposed to just bashing into the side of a barge and falling into a giant sand mouth. -Like I mentioned earlier, the movie lulled a little bit when Finn and Rose went to space-America and met with Del Toro's character. They spent a little too much time at the (admittedly gorgeous-looking) casino/giant cat races. This may have been one of my favorite parts of the movie visually, so it's not at all bad, but the story seemed a little weird around this part. It was a little convenient that they had the time to travel to another planet(?) while under siege, but I guess that was always insinuated as a possibility with the whole hyper-speed deal. -I enjoyed Laura Dern's character and really liked her relationship with Leia, but her arc was a little all over the place for the little time we saw her. I didn't really feel emotionally invested in her at all past that link to Leia, so when she made her big sacrifice as if she were a main character, it was sort of a "well okay then, moving on I suppose" moment. -Some of the comedy (not all, not even most) came off a bit unnecessary. While a lot of the jokes hit home just fine, there were a few cringey moments in there. The opening with Poe making "your mom" jokes to General Hux was a little too tongue-in-cheek. The played-for-laughs BB-8/Walker sequence came off forced, as did the "tiny alien inserts coins into BB-8" moment. And Finn's delivery of "let's go, chrome dome" was super cheesey. Like I said, most of it was just fine, but the comedy did find its way into scenes that shouldn't have had it a few times.
The one thing I am really on the fence about:
-On initial experience, Luke's death played a little weak to me. I was honestly a little in shock when it happened, I just didn't see it coming - and not in that way. I was really hoping he'd last until Episode IX, though I still can't imagine he won't be back as a Force ghost. I'm not huge on the fact that he didn't actually leave the island, and I was bummed that we never actually saw him wield a lightsaber and have one last duel (arguably the one thing that people have been wanting to see since ROTJ). What makes it sting even more, is that it was teased with the Force projection scene - he was doing Matrix moves and everything. I honestly thought he was already dead (forgetting about the physical "fight" with Rey earlier in the movie). I would have marked out for that twist, but the projection reveal kind of fell flat. Though, I did enjoy Luke's death not ending up being a stereotypical "I want to fight you to the death", which is what it was honestly teased as. Luke dying just to protect his friends is so true to his overall character arc. He wasn't dying from fighting with anger, he was dying from a sacrifice for the greater good born out of love for his friends and people.
However, Luke's actual ending has really stuck with me. After having seen it, it was a beautiful moment. The two-suns deal was awesome and a fitting end for one of the greatest cinematic heroes. I also really appreciated the call-back to what happens when one willingly dies in service of the Force. Luke going out like Obi-Wan was honestly touching to see, even if it seemed kind of abrupt when it actually happened. So I dug his actual "death scene" even if I thought the whole projection thing was sort of strange.
The three things that will garner major heat toward this movie from the die-hards:
All things I already dove into, but I wanted to predict which plot points are the cause for the Audience Score on Rotten Tomatoes to rest at 64%.
-Rey's lineage will be viewed as a let-down for so many people who were ready to assume they were going to take the cliched "she's related to a past hero" trope. A trope I probably would have enjoyed regardless, but introducing a new bloodline to the Force both makes sense from a story standpoint (especially after this movie re-established that anyone can harness it) and from a logistics standpoint: Disney won't need to rely on the Skywalker story forever now, and can move forward with the same "series" but with new outlets to explore. -Snoke not being Palpatine, or Anakin, or Mace Windu, or Darth Plagueis, will be viewed as a let-down by the Star Wars die-hards. This was another aspect of TFA that I didn't need to link to any past Star Wars story, but boy - this movie pretty much destroyed fan speculation and theories that have been raging for 2 years now. But in the simplest (and smartest) ways. -Luke never leaving the island/fighting with his lightsaber will be viewed as a 32-year-long case of Star Wars blue balls. I feel this one much harder than the other 2, but again, I need to rewatch it to really get my grips. It was beautiful regardless, but I can understand backlash to it. It didn't dampen my opinion of the movie overall, but a little more Luke action would have been cool.
The one thing I loved above all else:
-The origin of the blue milk, straight from the bewb.
Overall, it was an extremely well-made movie, and a Star Wars movie that actually makes you think. I somewhat understand where you're coming from, ENIX - this is a tough one to really nail a hard score to (despite my "solid" 8 earlier). This is admittedly a much more challenging Star Wars movie... But that's something that I honestly enjoy about it. Interested to see it again and see how I feel.
Choppy to me equals the same 6 or 7 set up shots of a certain chase every time we return from another setting. Repetitive editing is a better descriptor. Maybe that was all the editing team had to work with.
I thought Rose was terrible and one dimensional. I don't need an anime chick in my Star Wars movie. She was like Bulma from the live action Dragonball movie. Blech.
There are a lot of inconsistencies that I'll delve into later when I'm not beating my knuckles on this wheel bearing fix.
I've softened a hair since last night, but it's only above the Clone Wars theatrical release imo.
We don't need extra tech jargon either to explain stuff.
@DirtyMarco I mean no offense by this reply obviously, and you're free to an opinion of course, but this is a discussion thread so there's that. I don't think your criticisms hold much water
"Opening scene sets a horrible Marvel-esque tone. Your mom jokes-a-plenty. I have seen some people defend this scene, but to me it sets a horrible tone."
I mentioned in my review that some of the dialogue here was rough, the mom joke for sure, but it wasn't a bad scene. It was exciting and interesting, it just had forced comedy for a few seconds.
"Super Leia was just extra ridiculous. I can't believe they thought that was a good idea."
I don't understand why people are acting like Leia "flew" to the ship. She used the Force to latch onto the ship and pull herself to it. It was something Star Wars fans have been wanting to see an example of since ROTJ and it was a beautiful moment for Leia's character in her final appearance.
"The Rey/Kylo sexual tension felt awkward at best. Actually almost every Rey scene felt awkward at best. She might be the worst actor to every play a Jedi."
Sexual tension? You read into this a bit too much, I think. I didn't get "sexual" from literally any of that. I got a male character and female character trying to entice each other to their ways of thinking. One for power, one for the good of the Force. The "longing" in their eyes wasn't lustful whatsoever, it was a longing for acceptance and to not "be alone" with these powers (something touched upon in the movie). If anything it was a teased "sibling" relationship and their respective roles as Force-wielders will reflect that.
Your opinion on her acting is subjective, but she's far from the worst person to play a Jedi. Look no farther than Episodes I and II for that.
"The whole plot is just the world's slowest car chase scene, and it makes zero sense. "
How do you figure? The reason for why the Resistance force was down to one ship and under siege was 100% established. I imagine you mean the fact that the second act features the extended siege. Otherwise, each story we follow is fairly straight forward - it's just that there were a lot of threads to follow. To say the "whole" plot revolved around a "slow car chase" doesn't make sense.
"Finn literally served no purpose, except to make the movie 50 minutes longer." "Pointless casino trips."
Finn absolutely served a purpose. They were under attack and needed to get the coder character to Kylo Ren's ship to save them all. That's called motivation. Finn failed at his mission with Rose, but there was purpose and motivation behind what they were doing. If you just didn't like these parts because of the characters or what have you, so be it, but don't try to insinuate that there was no purpose to them, or that their actions in the movie were "pointless" considering their motivations and reasons are pretty blatant.
If one character came close to serving "no" purpose, it was more Poe. He did serve a purpose to an extent, but it wasn't as important to this movie as everyone else.
"To much Deus Ex BB-8. That droid literally solves every movie in the entire series."
I can agree with you here as far as The Last Jedi goes... but he's been in 2 movies in the "entire" series. I agree BB-8 was too convenient in this movie, but he was fine in TFA and I don't see how these 2 appearances reflect on the entire series.
"Salt foxes were too much."
They were established in-universe before this movie. It's an entire universe of creatures - if the foxes were too much for you, I'm surprised you made it through the creature-laden series.
"We have to save the things we love, not kill the things we hate" is said while the thing they hate is killing the things they love. "
Yeah? That's the point. It's a battle of two different ideals. That line is said to differentiate the heroes from the villains. It may be redundant in a Star Wars movie, but I don't really see how pointing this out is a flaw in the movie.
"More false endings than an episode of Arrow."
This is just a nope. I personally never felt the movie was about to end until the climax of the third act with Luke and Kylo. If movies typically end after 2 acts, then I could see why you may think the movie should have ended nearer to the Snoke-death aftermath. But Episode II is the only one that ends after 2 acts, there wasn't a false ending here.
I really don't like Finn. I guess they're trying to make him like the new Han. He isn't isn't really interested in the Rebellion...er Resistance. He's only out for himself, and the only reason he sticks around is for the girl he's into. Even down did the jacket, he looks like a Han type of character. I was really hoping that Rose wouldn't have stepped in.
But Finn does care about the Resistance and it was made super clear in TLJ. He was about to leave to find Rey, but when a plan was presented to him to help the Resistance, he immediately abandoned his solo mission to risk his neck and find the coder. I didn't feel Finn was "into" Rose whatsoever past a comrade, the lovey dovey stuff came from Rose's side - and even that was based mostly on tales of Finn's heroics helping the Resistance. By the end of TLJ, I'm still not sure if Finn feels anything more than just protective/indebted to Rose. Like the Rey/Kylo Ren "sexual tension" insinuation earlier, I didn't read a "love story" angle from the Finn/Rose thing at all. In fact, I was happy that their relationship came off platonic. I almost feel like audiences are just trained to assume a guy/lady combo is automatically romantic from the cliches throughout the history of cinema. Either way, he made a decision to stick around and help the Resistance, it wasn't just a possible attraction to Rose that made him stick around this time (though that was the case in TFA with Rey).
Poe is definitely meant to be the new Han, i saw that setup in TFA. they matured him a lot in this one, and i liked that. I liked Finn a little more in this one, he was my least favorite in TFA, trying to inject kevin hart into my star wars, no thanks. they serioused him up a little and gave him more resolve and he grew and i liked that, Rose, who was kinda ok i guess, eh... was able to break him out of his tunnel vision Rey is all that matters views and look at the big picture. i didnt take it that he felt anyting for rose like he loves Rey. that all seems to be on Rose's side, and i think she knows his heart is somewhere else.
ive JUST seen the film.. and in reading some easter egg articles on IGN i am very disapointed to see Abrams is coming back for ep9.. i think i like this one better than TFA...too many things in TFA seemed like they just didnt have a plan and so Johnson just ended them here, and now Abrams comes back, im now afraid this trilogy isnt going to be cohesive at the end with them back and forthing them.
in a day or two and after a second viewing some thoughts may change, but here are fresh impressions just seeing it.
reys parents... there was a lot of theory going around that Iden Versio, the character from the battlefront 2 campaign was her mother.. but that clashed with interviews from ridley and driver saying it isnt important to anyone but rey, that they arent anyone of consequence like people think. it makes sense, anakin and his mother were nobodies, no great lineage to the jedi etc. the interviews said she was determined to fight and be something more in spite of them, so if they were just junk traders on jakku that fits. some are already saying kylo lied and something will be revealed but i think this is it on that front.
snoke.. kylo's intentions never seemed to be to usurp him so that was odd.. and though i suspected he would turn on him that was a great twist... the breaking of the lightsaber very symbolic that the time of the old is over and the time of the new is here.
the force itself.. maybe my favorite reveal? luke had learned that light and dark, the force itself...was not of the jedi or the sith, it simply was, and they were just vessels that harnessed it. it will be interesting to see what rey learns from the ancient texts.
yoda!!! and they used the puppet, that was awesome. real original trilogy yoda that even hit him with the cane..loved it. he knew the books were gone, but needed luke to move forward.
luke... i liked luke in this movie, i thought Hamill did pretty well. .i expected we would lose him here, "the last jedi" pretty much was a giveaway to that i guess looking back, as rey wasnt going anywhere. the holo projection since he had been cut off from the force for awhile possibly and his advanced age perhaps was too much a toll.. and the "see you around kid" was almost han like, sweet. if he isnt a force ghost in the next movie that will be a super wasted opportunity the way obi-wan did it for him.
Princess Leia (im with Lor San Tekka, she'll always be royalty to me) what i expected, she was really good. i loved the scene with her and holdo where they were talking about poe and she was like i like him, and she was like i do too, so much Han in him, and i think he reminds her of herself in her princess days. i expected her to die, possibly along with luke in some way as last i heard her family wasnt keen on CGI'ing her into ep9, but maybe thats changed. what i dont want, is her only being mentioned. ewww. but the force thing in space?? hated that.. its always been said she was force sensitive and hence why she senses it in rey right away and knows she is special, but not adept in its use like luke was. even in the old EU it talks about how she just didnt have the talent to wield it as a jedi. but that was a little too much. maybe they could pass it off that at the moment of life or death it was instinct.. but still.
Finn.. i thought he might actually bite it there.. and i thought maybe rose had bit it, and died after confessing she loved him, i hope they arent going to do a love triangle, that would just be awful, it was cute early on with luke and han with leia before luke found out, but in this I cant see that not being awful. i also dont think there is anything there for finn, definitely was more an appreciation thing for him.
broom kid at the end. i dont think they are saying this particular kid is going to be something, i think its more saying there will always be luke skywalkers out there, people from humble beginnings looking up at the stars and dreaming of a life of something more. though most of the rebellion has been lost, there will be others who will rise.
i really expected the idea of balance to be that ben and rey would have to work together to end the first order and restore peace and balance, light and dark, and i didnt sense anything sexual there, rey seemed more embarassed or put off by shirtless kylo than it being a sex thing. she seems pretty attached to finn.
so many throwbacks.
yoda, the way luke tells kylo if you strike me down like obi wan told vader, the scene where kylo has his hand on the trigger and it does the cutaways to he and leia like luke and vader, the taking rey to snoke, the remote release of the handcuffs, putting the lightsaber on the arm of his chair. and several others.
i liked this movie quite a bit, i think i like it better than TFA right now.. but i need a day or two and to see it again maybe.
I like the prequels and OT a lot so I was surprised at how much this movie was off to me.
Things I liked:
Curmudgeon Luke, even if it went on way too long.
Leia, including her pulling herself I to the cruiser. I don't see why this is hard to accept considering she is Force sensitive.
The island caretakers
Del Toro's performance
Also the actors for Poe, Finn, Kylo, Hux, the supporting First Order officers, Phasma,
Most of the CGI.
The action sequences except for the ski speeders.
The way Kylo killed Snoke was excellent in my opinion. Snoke read his mind about his actions, but missed which lightsaber Kylo was thinking about.
The praetorians and the fight, but odd Kylo didn't use the force more.
The execution of Luke's death/teleport. It was shot very well. (More on it in my dislikes)
The force and how it works and why and the new abilities was pretty awesome.
The lighting and general cinematography is beautiful.
The design of the salt planet.
Chewbacca. Every second was great. He needs more screen time.
R2D2 reminding Luke of what he needs to do. R2 needs more involvement.
BB8 for the most part, but he does save the day a little too much. His imperial droid costume was genius.
Main character dialog for the most part was pretty good.
Del Toro's characters point about weapon manufacturers and good and bad. It expands on Luke's perspective on the Jedi.
THINGS I DIDNT LIKE:
Basically the same shot was used over and over to show the cruiser being chased.
The chase being such a central theme to the whole film. It made it drag. It was a good idea overall think, but not for 2 hours.
The casino stuff. All of it didn't fit and the whole subplot literally served zero purpose other than to give Finn and the new action figures something to do. At the most it put Finn in proximity to Phasma.
The six booked alien thing and Luke milking it was much worse than any Jar Jar nonsense.
Rose was more annoying than Jar Jar to me. The actor didn't deliver her lines effectively most of the time and she made constipated faces when she was trying g to be serious. I hope the chapter dies offscreen.
Maz and the video game hologram.
The movie is too bloated.cut 20 or 30 minutes.
Snoke was a total waste and when he was on screen we basically saw a rehash of ROTJ.
Dreadnaught shields are non existent apparently. Though it's possible Poe flew through the shields.
The marvel humor needs to be dialed back a lot in movies. Sick if how pervasive it is in each film. Jedi wasn't as bad about it as most, but it was getting old. I fear them ever doing a movie about the Holocaust. I swear they would have Jews cracking jokes as their being murdered. It's good in small doses and idiotic when it's 50% of a movies dialog. Again, Jedi was only marginally offensive in this area.
Dreadnaught destruction is our fourth Death Star destruction.
If jumping to lighspeed is so destructive, just build Droid ships to ram everything.
Rose saving Finn. This is the risk they should have taken. Killing Luke was essentially expected in multiple articles, theories and posts. Not to mention she was behind him after already breaking off. Did she warp ahead so she could ram him at a 90 degree angle? The line after about saving who we love was stupid in the sense that literally that was the last possible chance to stop the mini death star from blowing the doors in and ensuring the death of the remaining resistance leadership. It was a stupid selfish act. She couldn't know about the soon to be rescue by Rey.
Too much screen time to the slave kids and the casino inhabitants. They didn't even speak, but we have to care cause kids. Booooooooooring except for the drunk alien putting coins in BB8.
The placement of Luke's demise in the trilogy.
Pretty much all of Laura Dern's acting. It was Lifetime level sappy and sweet. The same goes for whoever the officer is that they keep giving screen time to on the cruiser. I would look up her name but I just don't care. The actor just doesn't sell herself well.
All of the dialog between Leia and Hoedo was bad. Especially when discussing Poe. How many times did they use the word flyboy in this?
I really hate that Ackbar died.
Too much technical jargon/Star Trek problem solving. Too many illogical but correct assumptions by characters. For example the hyperspace tracking and that only one of the ships would be using the ability. I've only seen it once so I may have missed the explanation. Rose's take on it was also wayyyyy too convenient. That reminds me of the "Aha! destroy the oscillator" moment in TFA.
Things I'm unsure about:
Rey's heritage. I wanted a connection, but her being an Everyman works too.
Yoda being able to touch Luke. Maybe it's in Luke's head like when he battled Kylo.
There is quite a bit more. Execution wise there are some gripes, but my main issue is content, which is mostly subjective. Long day for me. I'm going to watch it again next week, because the more i think about it the more I want to see it again. I'm in an odd place with this.
Yah, honestly whether you overall liked or disliked it, I think most people were "at an odd place" with The Last Jedi. Like I said, it was easily the most challenging of the movies - that much is evident by how some people just don't know what to think. I think it adds an interesting layer to the movie overall. I'm also looking forward to another watch down the road. It'll be interesting to see what everyone thinks after multiple rewatches. If ENIX is any example, people are bound to change their minds one way or another.
> But Finn does care about the Resistance and it was made super clear in TLJ. He was
> about to leave to find Rey, but when a plan was presented to him to help the Resistance,
> he immediately abandoned his solo mission to risk his neck and find the coder. I
> didn't feel Finn was "into" Rose whatsoever past a comrade, the lovey dovey stuff
> came from Rose's side - and even that was based mostly on tales of Finn's heroics
> helping the Resistance. By the end of TLJ, I'm still not sure if Finn feels anything
> more than just protective/indebted to Rose. Like the Rey/Kylo Ren "sexual tension"
> insinuation earlier, I didn't read a "love story" angle from the Finn/Rose thing
> at all. In fact, I was happy that their relationship came off platonic. I almost
> feel like audiences are just trained to assume a guy/lady combo is automatically
> romantic from the cliches throughout the history of cinema. Either way, he made a
> decision to stick around and help the Resistance, it wasn't just a possible attraction
> to Rose that made him stick around this time (though that was the case in TFA with
No, Finn is into Rey. The only reason he joined Han in the last movie was to save Rey. Everything he did in this movie was so that Rey didn't return to an ambush. And then when he finally saw her, he gave her a huge hug.
No, it wasn't. Finn didn't even think Rey WAS returning at that moment - that's the entire reason he was going after her before being stopped by Rose. He stayed because Rose offered an opportunity to save the situation the Resistance was in.
Plus, he almost killed himself to save what was left of the Resistance, without having seen Rey one time since TFA. So I mean, I don't know how you can make the argument that he was just working to keep Rey safe in this one. Really, nothing on screen besides his abandoned "find Rey" plan suggested that whatsoever.
Yes, he stayed behind to help save Rey in TFA. So at that point, he was interested in saving his friend (possible love interest?) more than helping the Resistance. That was a flaw, but he was still working toward an innately "good" goal. Not sure why that's grounds to dislike him. Regardless, in TLJ, he was blatantly helping the Resistance without regard to Rey,and even abandoned his personal mission to save her in order to do so. That's character development.
The way Luke talks about becoming a legend and believing his own legend is a really nice touch, especially given the last scene when you see a whole new generation recounting the legend of Luke Skywalker...but it's a different story than the one from the original trilogy. A new generation is given hope by him in an entirely different way. That connects with the notion of "a spark" in regards to hope that is mentioned several times in the movie as well
Finn and Rey are def the love story of this trilogy. He was leaving so Rey wouldn't return to a hopeless situation. But when presented with a plan that could work he did and I liked that. This director redeemed Finn for me a little...a little. I'm still back and forth on him but I liked this Finn better. He saw the big picture and didn't back down...even willing to sacrifice himself. Realizing this is bigger than getting in bed with Rey at some point. She loves him too. As evident by her telling chewie to relay a message, and the way she watched him cover rose with the blanket. I'm afraid Abrams is gonna mess him up again. I wish Johnson was staying for ep9
> No, it wasn't. Finn didn't even think Rey WAS returning at that moment - that's
> the entire reason he was going after her before being stopped by Rose. He stayed
> because Rose offered an opportunity to save the situation the Resistance was in.
> Plus, he almost killed himself to save what was left of the Resistance, without having
> seen Rey one time since TFA. So I mean, I don't know how you can make the argument
> that he was just working to keep Rey safe in this one. Really, nothing on screen
> besides his abandoned "find Rey" plan suggested that whatsoever.
> Yes, he stayed behind to help save Rey in TFA. So at that point, he was interested
> in saving his friend (possible love interest?) more than helping the Resistance.
> That was a flaw, but he was still working toward an innately "good" goal. Not
> sure why that's grounds to dislike him. Regardless, in TLJ, he was blatantly helping
> the Resistance without regard to Rey,and even abandoned his personal mission to save
> her in order to do so. That's character development.
Watch it again. He clearly says at one point he needs to save the Resistance so that Rey doesn't return to nothing or to a trap. All he cares about is Rey. When Rose kisses him, he is genuinely shocked, because he never once even thought of her that way. She was an ends to a mean...to save Rey. He is a terrible character. Han may have been out to save his own skin, but he makes that clear right from the beginning. He doesn't care about the rebellion. He just wants money to save his life. He originally only stays for Leia and Luke, but eventually he becomes an integral part of the rebellion. I guess Finn has another movie to redeem himself, but as of right now, he is my least favorite part of this latest trilogy.
Alrighty I'm willing to take your word that he was initially saving the Resistance to save his friend/love interest, must have missed that line.
But your post actually helped me realize Finn's Hanisms. ANH - Han tries to take off to save his own hide, only decides to stick around when friends are in dire need. TFA - Finn tries to take off to save his own hide, only decides to stick around when friends are in dire need.
In that sense, he's similar to Han even if his personality isn't really.
Regardless, I think this was the movie that showed he was willing to give his life for the Resistance whether Rey was around or not. We'll see what happens in the next one. I'd rather more of a respect-based relationship where Finn just feels he needs to protect the new Jedi instead of a romance plot, but it's Disney so there will be love in Episode IX. I personally don't mind him so whatev.
I don't like him either and hopes he continues to grow in the next one. I hated him so much in TFA but felt like there was a lot of improvement here. I hope we don't see too much love story stuff between Rey and Finn in 9. It works better as an underlying thing.
Maybe I am just not as hardcore as most but I simply loved the movie. From start to finish I was entertained and even surprised by a few things! This Star wars for me personally ranks in my top 3.
1. Return of Jedi 2. Force Awakens 3. The Last Jedi 4. Revenge of the Sith 5. Empire Strikes Back 6. A New Hope. 7.Attack of the Clones 8. Phantom Menace
I also absolutely loved Rogue One, but I am just ranking the trilogy's. While I don't care much for Phantom Menace, I still watch it. Every time I do a Star Wars marathon it's in the rotation. It has grown on me over the years.
Anyway, I am not going to say to much about the Last Jedi as I am sure there are some that have not seen it, but again I loved it. I thought it was extremely well done. I personally find people take movies way to seriously, I can't stand these people... they are the worst people to go to movies with, damn buzz kills.
The biggest issue to me was that it didn't feel like a seamless tradition from Episode VII to Episode VIII. There were several cliffhangers from Episode VII that fans have been theorizing about for two years. So many of those cliffhangers were glanced over or wrapped up in unsatisfying ways. I know that's subjective, but it really felt to me that this new director wanted to distance himself from Episode VII.
definitely, anything that didn't have a clear road map coming out of ep7 he just wrote off. now with abrams coming back will he do the same? I fear this trilogy is going to suffer from feeling discombobulated if that is the right term because of the abrams/Johnson/abrams. Johnson wrote out or shoehorned abrams stuff, so now does he do the same?
I totally agree. I think either director could have produced a solid trilogy, but using the two directors is going to what is going to prevent there from being a seamless story.
In my opinion they should have reworked the film having Leia perform a jump to light speed. Use a voice double and have her communicating with one of the already departed transports. It would have made the moment of silence after the collision even more effective. That sacrifice could have then been the "spark" that finally convinces Luke (and ultimately others) to join the battle. I think that would have been a great tribute to Cary Fisher.
if in fact her family isn't keen on the use of her in ep9, last I heard they were not, but after their initial grieving period they may have changed their stance. I think that would have been a pretty amazing thing, for her to act like she was leaving and then shut them behind the door, and they be all like no you don't have to do this! but that moment with luke and leia together one more time was pretty amazing too
We should get some spoiler tags i the title. It seems like most of the discussion is going to involve spoilers.
I also think they could have had a cheer out loud moment if they had Luke emerge from the the hole in the bunker. Start off as just a silhouette in the smoke, then have the light saber fire up. That would have given me goose bumps. The reveal was cool, but I think it could have been even more powerful.
it would have been pretty crazy, but the quiet entrance and the people like "whoa that's luke skywalker" without saying it, and then the moment with leia seemed to be what they were going for, that would have been sick though. maybe they do that then he has the moment with leia on the falcon and then fades while holding her hand.... how sick would that have been.. but then that takes away she and rey sensing it, but I like this better I think.
I also kind of expected somehow that perhaps luke and leia would go out together... they came into the world together, and I thought maybe they would send them out too. but also the "legend" of luke skywalker needed to remain intact, that he cant be defeated, so that it can inspire the next generation.
I didn't care much for Rey or Finn, so the internet said I was sexist and racist. Now I don't care much for Kylo-Ren. I guess I'm an emoist or an anti-Semite (is he Jewish?). Anyway, I fudging hated the show girls too. Apparently, that also makes me an butt-hole. I guess I'm just an butt-hole.
The funny thing about this movie is that I disliked almost all of the main characters but still liked the movie. Strange. I didn't care for Kylo, Rey, Finn, or Finn's sidekick (I can't remember her name). I did like Poe, but his arc sucked.
Facebook is no better. Poe is awesome the best of the new cast for me. I am in love with Daisy Ridley but I hope Rey keeps growing. She has potential. I'm wondering if we see a more serious and determined and less conflicted kylo in ep9. At the end of the movie he seemed much less back and forth and hell bent on killing them all even knowing Leia was there.
Av club or slate wrote how the film is too diverse and sinitcool thinks centridt and Republicans will hate it because apparently we believe in animal cruelty, slavery and love corporations making money off war. Meh. I kind of rolled my eyes at that one.
What if Luke didn't die but teleported to Tatooine. Lol at naked Luke falling on some Jawas. Remember, Kylo had water on his hand after speaking with Rey across the Force.