Politics

Topic   Bernie & Jane Sanders under investigation for bank fraud.

MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
* 25-Jun(#1)
And they're lawyered up.

I'm all for the investigation. If this turns bad for Bernie, you can kiss the currently immovable Democratic Party goodbye for the foreseeable future. Nobody else prominent enough is trying hard enough to move them to be a party more representative of the Left's interest.

Gonna be severely disappointing if it turns out that way. Hypocrisy on a massive scale.


Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
25-Jun(#2)
Missile
Gold Good Trader
25-Jun(#3)
Beautiful, simply beautiful. Too bad the FBI is incompetent.
King_link
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
26-Jun(#4)
So if I'm reading this right the allegations are that Mrs. Sanders would have said the college receives more donor money than it actually does in order to get this loan to expand the college.

All the proof they would need should be in the numbers I'm assuming. They are going to have to be traced back to all the donors to see exactly what was given.

Even if this was done with the best intentions, it's a pretty crapty way to cheat the system.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
26-Jun(#5)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
>
> I'm all for the investigation. If this turns bad for Bernie, you can kiss the currently
> immovable Democratic Party goodbye for the foreseeable future. Nobody else prominent
> enough is trying hard enough to move them to be a party more representative of the
> Left's interest.
>
> Gonna be severely disappointing if it turns out that way. Hypocrisy on a massive
> scale.
>
>

It wasn't Bernie it was his wife. You can't blame Bernie for his wife's mistakes anymore than you can blame Melania for Donald's.
POG
Gold Global Trader (8) Has Written 8 Reviews
(frozen)
26-Jun(#6)
Bernie's entire life is a fraud. He literally makes his living defrauding confused college kids, worker unions, and millennials looking for handouts.

King_link
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
27-Jun(#7)
POG, I know you're definitely against his politics but you can't say he has been a fake his entire life. All of his actions dating all the way back to segregation protests have been a ruse to gain power? Come on. To state the only ones who supported Bernie were ones looking for handouts discredits your whole standpoint. That's like saying the only ones who voted for Trump are racists Nazis.

Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
27-Jun(#8)
He's not fake at all, IMO. He's just very loony and off-base.

I mean, the guy hasn't had an honest day of work in his life. He got kicked off a hippie commune for being lazy.
King_link
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
27-Jun(#9)
He ran on a platform of citizens being able to be healthy and kids getting a higher education. He was looking to invest in our people and our country to hopefully have a better future for more than who have it now. He also wanted the wealthiest people in the country to actually pay their dues instead of jumping through loopholes to get out of it, an idea that Trump mentioned as well. He had real plans and real actions for those plans. Whether you think they would work or not is debatable but they were on the table.

I'm not sure what's considered honest work but he was a teacher, a carpenter and a writer at different points in time before he entered politics.
POG
Gold Global Trader (8) Has Written 8 Reviews
(frozen)
27-Jun(#10)
He made a life out of being a politician. Nothing more and nothing less. He goads people into giving him money while conjuring up policies that are based in complete fallacy. Not really sure where the convolution is.

Noid
Gold Good Trader
27-Jun(#11)
POG wrote:
> He made a life out of being a politician. Nothing more and nothing less. He goads
> people into giving him money while conjuring up policies that are based in complete
> fallacy. Not really sure where the convolution is.
>
>

image
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
27-Jun(#12)
oh shiiiiiiiiiit
Noid
Gold Good Trader
27-Jun(#13)
I liked Bernie Sanders better when he was in "Curb Your Enthusiasm." winking raspberry
Mexico
Double Gold Good Trader
27-Jun(#14)
yankees7448 wrote:
> MikeyWhoa wrote:
>>
>> I'm all for the investigation. If this turns bad for Bernie, you can kiss the
> currently
>> immovable Democratic Party goodbye for the foreseeable future. Nobody else prominent
>> enough is trying hard enough to move them to be a party more representative of
> the
>> Left's interest.
>>
>> Gonna be severely disappointing if it turns out that way. Hypocrisy on a massive
>> scale.
>>
>>
>
> It wasn't Bernie it was his wife. You can't blame Bernie for his wife's mistakes
> anymore than you can blame Melania for Donald's.

You are always fake news.

"A second letter to federal prosecutors in early 2016 alleged that Senator Sanders' office had pressured the bank to approve the loan application submitted by Jane Sanders. "Improper pressure by a United States Senator is a serious ethical violation," the letter asserted."
"The FBI, it seems, is looking into exactly what Jane Sanders did or didn't do--and whether her husband Bernie, hero of the progressive left, tried to ease along one of the loans."
source - http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/22/...
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
27-Jun(#15)
Mexico wrote:
> yankees7448 wrote:
>> MikeyWhoa wrote:
> |>>
> |>> I'm all for the investigation. If this turns bad for Bernie, you can kiss the
>> currently
> |>> immovable Democratic Party goodbye for the foreseeable future. Nobody else prominent
> |>> enough is trying hard enough to move them to be a party more representative of
>> the
> |>> Left's interest.
> |>>
> |>> Gonna be severely disappointing if it turns out that way. Hypocrisy on a massive
> |>> scale.
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> It wasn't Bernie it was his wife. You can't blame Bernie for his wife's mistakes
>> anymore than you can blame Melania for Donald's.
>
> You are always fake news.
>
> "A second letter to federal prosecutors in early 2016 alleged that Senator Sanders'
> office had pressured the bank to approve the loan application submitted by Jane Sanders.
> "Improper pressure by a United States Senator is a serious ethical violation," the
> letter asserted."
> "The FBI, it seems, is looking into exactly what Jane Sanders did or didn't do--and
> whether her husband Bernie, hero of the progressive left, tried to ease along one
> of the loans."

Clearly he knows exactly what happened. Duh.
Huh
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
29-Jun(#16)
Every communist movements starts with humble beginnings.. Look at South America or Russia. None of the millennials and snow flakes backing Bernie can put two and two together and open a fudging history book.

By all accounts countries like Venezuela and Brazil should have been capitalist Utopia's that should have enjoyed the same economic success that North America did... But they had their socialist movements and anytime you expand government, you create corruption...

POG
Gold Global Trader (8) Has Written 8 Reviews
(frozen)
29-Jun(#17)
Communism can only function through terror. Fundamentally you have to make equal what is not equal. So, the only way to do that is to make everyone equal in suffering and fear.

That is why I laugh at modern day communists. We literally have so much history to prove that communism doesn't work. Yet they spew it.

yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
4-Jul(#18)
Huh wrote:
> Every communist movements starts with humble beginnings.. Look at South America or
> Russia. None of the millennials and snow flakes backing Bernie can put two and two
> together and open a fudging history book.
>
> By all accounts countries like Venezuela and Brazil should have been capitalist Utopia's
> that should have enjoyed the same economic success that North America did... But
> they had their socialist movements and anytime you expand government, you create
> corruption...
>
>

Supporting Sanders does not equal supporting Communism. That's what Republican a$$holes don't seem to get. Just because you want a society that doesn't fornicate majority of the population to help those who need it the least doesn't make you a communist.

I mean seriously, expand government equals more corruption. Corruption exists because people are greedy. You take the government out of the picture then the powerful have no opposing force to keep them in check. That's what the government is supposed to do. Its supposed to protect the people from threats both foreign and domestic. Unchecked influence from the wealthy is certainly something that should be considered a threat we need protection from.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
4-Jul(#19)
Mexico wrote:

>
> You are always fake news.
>
> "A second letter to federal prosecutors in early 2016 alleged that Senator Sanders'
> office had pressured the bank to approve the loan application submitted by Jane Sanders.
> "Improper pressure by a United States Senator is a serious ethical violation," the
> letter asserted."
> "The FBI, it seems, is looking into exactly what Jane Sanders did or didn't do--and
> whether her husband Bernie, hero of the progressive left, tried to ease along one
> of the loans."

All this drama is based upon a Trumpiteer who heard it from a guy who heard something at some point from someone else. I.E: Heresay. The guy admitted as much and has a vested interest in slandering Bernie.

When actual evidence is shown implicating him then I'll join you with the pitchforks. But in the meantime its all just bull$hit until that point.


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
4-Jul(#21)
Looks like Yankees and Mikey have it covered here. I'll focus on the other topics with the folks that are full of crap.

Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Jul(#22)
Who the hell knows what to believe all the news outlets on both sides are so full of crap.
POG
Gold Global Trader (8) Has Written 8 Reviews
(frozen)
* 7-Jul(#23)
Well. Bernie is a career politician that was paid by the Hillary camp to go quietly into the night. That enough proof he is corrupt. This is just icing on the cake.

yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
8-Jul(#24)
POG wrote:
> Well. Bernie is a career politician that was paid by the Hillary camp to go quietly
> into the night. That enough proof he is corrupt. This is just icing on the cake.
>
>
>

So Bernie didn't drag out the race after he was mathematically eliminated because he was corrupt and not because he didn't want to ruin Hillary's small chance at victory makes him corrupt. Gotcha.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Jul(#25)
If Bernie stays in the race Trump wins by an actual landslide because all the liberals and or unsure voters who picked her over trump would have had a much more reasonable option. He didn't bow out because he got some payday, he pulled out because he lost and he put party above personal pride. I hope this thing turns out to be false because truthfully Bernie has voted on the right side of issues for the better part of a half century. The above isn't stated as fact it's just what I think. Personally I think the election was rigged but not by Russia. I think it was rigged from the inside. The whole super delegate BS that cost bernie the primary, allowing someone with the checkered past that she had... I think even if they never admit it there was some kind of secret handshake meeting where they all decided that they could run roughshod over the whole country with a ninny like Trump at the helm. Not to mention that Mike Pence is actually running the country, not that orange ninny.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#26)
not sure of your point here, Prime. Are you saying if Bernie was the nominee that Trump would have won the popular vote and a larger margin in the electoral college?
Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 8-Jul(#27)
Osiris wrote:
> not sure of your point here, Prime. Are you saying if Bernie was the nominee that
> Trump would have won the popular vote and a larger margin in the electoral college?
I think he's saying if Bernie stayed on as like a third party vote, Hillary would have lost even more voters, though i don't think Bernie supporters actually voted at all, so...

Eh, i doubt Bernie was actually paid by Hillary to go away quietly, judging by the debates and his incredibly passive behavior during the election he probably just gave up on his own when it became clear that there was no chance of him ever getting that nomination.

They tried to rig the election for hillary though, of that i'm sure. Otherwise Trump wouldn't have been demonized as the second coming of the Third Reich.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
8-Jul(#28)
The Bernie voters ended up either not voting, voting for Jill Stein (throwing their vote away) might as well not have voted, or if they were centrist/undecided voters, lesser of two evils folks/"non establishment crowd", they just voted for Trump because Hillary was so abominable to them.

Yes, the DNC did rig the election to make Hillary the nominee. Voters don't want Hillary to be President. However, she was kind of forced on to Democrats and had been so since 2008. Personally, I just don't think she was strong enough to sway voters.

Bernie did not get bought out. He got screwed. Democrat those that identify as life long Democrats were not ready for a candidate like him anyhow. The weren't ready for an independent to change the party. He was a threat to establishment Democrats. Populism isn't a strong suit of the party.

POG
Gold Global Trader (8) Has Written 8 Reviews
(frozen)
8-Jul(#29)
yankees7448 wrote:
> POG wrote:
>> Well. Bernie is a career politician that was paid by the Hillary camp to go quietly
>> into the night. That enough proof he is corrupt. This is just icing on the cake.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So Bernie didn't drag out the race after he was mathematically eliminated because
> he was corrupt and not because he didn't want to ruin Hillary's small chance at victory
> makes him corrupt. Gotcha.

I read the DNC emails. There was a deal struck.

Huh
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Jul(#30)
I think it's cute that Bernie supporters think a 70 year old socialist who proposed massive tax increases on anyone making over $40k per year (i.e. the majority of Americans) had any chance over Trump. He literally had zero support from moderates in the Democratic party.

yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
8-Jul(#31)
POG wrote:
> yankees7448 wrote:
>> POG wrote:
> |>> Well. Bernie is a career politician that was paid by the Hillary camp to go
> quietly
> |>> into the night. That enough proof he is corrupt. This is just icing on the cake.
> |>>
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> So Bernie didn't drag out the race after he was mathematically eliminated because
>> he was corrupt and not because he didn't want to ruin Hillary's small chance at
> victory
>> makes him corrupt. Gotcha.
>
> I read the DNC emails. There was a deal struck.
>
>

I read the emails as well and they said Republicans like you always misinterpret the facts to serve your own version of reality.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#32)
Huh wrote:
> I think it's cute that Bernie supporters think a 70 year old socialist who proposed
> massive tax increases on anyone making over $40k per year (i.e. the majority of Americans)
> had any chance over Trump. He literally had zero support from moderates in the Democratic
> party.


Trump didn't have the support of Moderates on either side. He won just fine because of a fired up base. (Amongst other reasons)

Bernie vs. Trump, I'd still put money on Bernie.

Huh
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Jul(#33)
That's not true, Mikey. He won 200 counties that had voted Obama in the previous two elections. He had plenty of moderate support. But so did Hillary. My argument is those moderates who voted for Hillary wouldn't have voted for Sanders.

Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#34)
No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.
Huh
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#35)
No one that is successful or earns a decent living anyways.

yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
8-Jul(#36)
Dustin wrote:
> No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.

Because all the people with half a brain were already locked in on Trump.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#37)
Dustin wrote:
> No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.

Couldn't agree more. All the half-brained voted for Trump.

Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency trending towards progressiveness.


Missile
Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#38)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> Dustin wrote:
>> No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.
>
> Couldn't agree more. All the half-brained voted for Trump.
>
> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency trending
> towards progressiveness.
So you voted for hillary then.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
8-Jul(#39)
Missile wrote:
> MikeyWhoa wrote:
>> Dustin wrote:
> |>> No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.
>>
>> Couldn't agree more. All the half-brained voted for Trump.
>>
>> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency
> trending
>> towards progressiveness.
> So you voted for hillary then.

Well, yes. Bernie wasn't the candidate so voting for him was impossible.

Progressive and Liberal voters won't vote Republican unless they were working class.
Missile
Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#40)
Jesus, i know DNC corruption was bad, but you couldn't even vote for Bernie during the primaries?
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#41)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency trending
> towards socialism
>
>
>

Fixed that for you bud.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#42)
Crazy how even us trump people with half brains know how terrible socialism would be for this country.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#43)
Karaiya wrote:
> Missile wrote:
>> MikeyWhoa wrote:
> |>> Dustin wrote:
>> |>> No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.
> |>>
> |>> Couldn't agree more. All the half-brained voted for Trump.
> |>>
> |>> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency
>> trending
> |>> towards progressiveness.
>> So you voted for hillary then.
>
> Well, yes. Bernie wasn't the candidate so voting for him was impossible.
>
> Progressive and Liberal voters won't vote Republican unless they were working class.
>
>

Most of this. But I'm secure in simply stating that as bad as Hilary was as a candidate for me, she was miles and miles better than the alternative. To me frankly, she was simply a terrible candidate, but THE ONLY candidate qualified for the job.

I'm not about to hand the keys to the asylum patient just because the administrator is an abusive scumbag.


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
8-Jul(#44)
Dustin wrote:
> MikeyWhoa wrote:
>> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency
> trending
>> towards socialism
>>
>>
>>
>
> Fixed that for you bud.

No thats accurate. Thats no secret. Did you think it was???


Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#45)
Karaiya wrote:
> Dustin wrote:
>> MikeyWhoa wrote:
> |>> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency
>> trending
> |>> towards socialism
> |>>
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> Fixed that for you bud.
>
> No thats accurate. Thats no secret. Did you think it was???
>
>
>

I know it's accurate. That's why I fixed it for him. You're welcome.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#46)
Dustin wrote:
> Crazy how even us trump people with half brains know how terrible socialism would
> be for this country.

If you understood socialism as well as you think you do, then you'd see why Bernie isn't a socialist. He may seem like one to the layman who's comparing him to the likes of a crony capitalist like Trump, but those same simpletons thought Obama was a socialist.

You Cons and your trigger words.

Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#47)
Yeah true. We can't all be as smart as you Mikey.

All I really know is I like the thought of keeping more of the money I work hard for, and not be forced to contribute more of it to people who choose not to do the same. It seems relatively simple.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#48)
Dustin wrote:
> Yeah true. We can't all be as smart as you Mikey.
>
> All I really know is I like the thought of keeping more of the money I work hard
> for, and not be forced to contribute more of it to people who choose not to do the
> same. It seems relatively simple.

I got you brother. It's a perfectly acceptable stance. Just one I have several disagreements with for a plethora of already discussed reasons.

And no, unfortunately you can't be as smart as me. I took a BuzzFeed quiz that said the Star Wars character I was most like was Yoda. There can only be one Yoda. Sorry man.


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
8-Jul(#49)
I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and Reagan's of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold war ended and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks can't deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait and news sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead rather than maintaining a status quo.

Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare are so triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat of losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was on it. When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you can see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket book and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
8-Jul(#50)
20 -25 million people will likely be paying for that vote for the sake of holding on to Capitalism for basic life needs

Missile
Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#51)
Karaiya wrote:
> I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics
> and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and Reagan's
> of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold war ended
> and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle
> is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks can't
> deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait and news
> sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead rather
> than maintaining a status quo.
>
> Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare are so
> triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat of
> losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was on it.
> When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you can
> see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket book
> and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 8-Jul(#52)
Missile wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics
>> and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and Reagan's
>> of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold war
> ended
>> and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle
>> is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks
> can't
>> deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait and
> news
>> sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead rather
>> than maintaining a status quo.
>>
>> Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare are
> so
>> triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat
> of
>> losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was on
> it.
>> When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you can
>> see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket
> book
>> and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.
>

You don't like actually responding in debates. Why? Before you say something smart ass actually think about that.

When you have an actual original idea you should try sharing it.

Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 8-Jul(#53)
Karaiya wrote:
> Missile wrote:
>> Karaiya wrote:
> |>> I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics
> |>> and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and
> Reagan's
> |>> of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold war
>> ended
> |>> and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle
> |>> is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks
>> can't
> |>> deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait and
>> news
> |>> sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead rather
> |>> than maintaining a status quo.
> |>>
> |>> Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare are
>> so
> |>> triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat
>> of
> |>> losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was
> on
>> it.
> |>> When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you
> can
> |>> see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket
>> book
> |>> and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.
>>
>
> You don't like actually responding in debates. Why? Before you say something smart
> ass actually think about that.
That whole block of text you just shat out, it isn't a debate, it's just bait.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 8-Jul(#54)
Missile wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> Missile wrote:
> |>> Karaiya wrote:
>> |>> I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics
>> |>> and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and
>> Reagan's
>> |>> of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold
> war
> |>> ended
>> |>> and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle
>> |>> is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks
> |>> can't
>> |>> deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait
> and
> |>> news
>> |>> sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead
> rather
>> |>> than maintaining a status quo.
>> |>>
>> |>> Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare
> are
> |>> so
>> |>> triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat
> |>> of
>> |>> losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was
>> on
> |>> it.
>> |>> When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you
>> can
>> |>> see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket
> |>> book
>> |>> and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.
> |>>
>>
>> You don't like actually responding in debates. Why? Before you say something
> smart
>> ass actually think about that.
> This isn't a debate, it's just bait.

Again, not something I can read, think about, respond to that makes it a debate.
You don't have meaningful ideas but you continuously take the "bait". If you're bored I get that. But POG has thoughtful ideas. Dustin, is a smart ass but at least he is funny.

Why are you here?

Missile
Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#55)
Karaiya wrote:
> You don't have meaningful ideas but you continuously take the "bait".
Calling you out on it isn't necessarily the same thing as taking it.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
8-Jul(#56)
Free advice, even for me. Keep the jokes and memes and laughter IN the political debate. It breaks up the monotony and tension.

However, make a solid retort and speak your mind with conviction and accompanying information, THEN make the joke. Your response is the structure, your joke should be the punctuation.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
8-Jul(#57)
Missile wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> You don't have meaningful ideas but you continuously take the "bait".
> Calling you out on it isn't necessarily the same thing as taking it.

Calling me out for what? You posted a video. That wasn't a call out. A call out would have been a counter point.


Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Jul(#58)
I can speak from experience, no one gives a crap when you post a Video as a response to something.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
9-Jul(#59)
Huh wrote:
> That's not true, Mikey. He won 200 counties that had voted Obama in the previous
> two elections. He had plenty of moderate support. But so did Hillary. My argument
> is those moderates who voted for Hillary wouldn't have voted for Sanders.
>
>


Well its all a moot point anyway but I think Bernie makes it a tougher race. People who didn't vote Hillary did so because they despised her. It depressed turnout from the left and encouraged turnout from the right. Facing off against Hillary also made it much easier for him to play the outsider card. Hillary was the ultimate elitist Washington insider she was a really easy target. With all the DNC did to fork over Bernie it would have been much harder for Donald Trump to take on that outsider role. Not impossible but certainly not as easy.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
9-Jul(#60)
Missile wrote:
> MikeyWhoa wrote:
>> Dustin wrote:
> |>> No one with half a brain would have voted for Sanders.
>>
>> Couldn't agree more. All the half-brained voted for Trump.
>>
>> Those of us with a whole brain were excited about the prospect of a presidency
> trending
>> towards progressiveness.
> So you voted for hillary then.

For the record, I didn't vote Hillary. Hillary was guaranteed to win my state anyway so I wrote in Jimmy "The Rent is Too Damn High" McMillan. If the candidates are a joke you might as well vote for the joke that's funny.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#61)
I hate the idea of a wasted vote. Just because NY was going to Hillary doesn't mean I don't shake my bewbs down the street to vote. When people don't vote because they think it's a waste it encourages so many more into a dereliction of duty to participate in elections.

I don't think Bernie could have beaten trump because he was what a lot of people saw as a goofball outsider. I wasn't on board with the free college thing. Healthcare I like the idea of being universally free but I think if you ran healthcare like we run social security where you are forced to pay in a little from each paycheck it could cover everyone.

I just think there were people who saw a vote for Hillary over trump as a vote for women blindly but those people weren't nessesarily for trump as much as they were against Hillary. I think trump got a nice bulk of votes that way. I think there were a lot of people who didn't vote because they saw two atrocious candidates. And as much as a wackadoo as Bernie is, he's a reasonable and fair man and I think you would have had people turn out to vote for him as a result of that. I think a lot of folks saw this election as being in between a rock and hard place and didn't feel like being sandwiched.

In my opinion Trump and his rabbit ears have made a mockery of the presidency. What gets me every time is when conservatives or republicans turn a statement like that into some kind of pro Hillary vote of confidence or endorsement. It's not. I can not like Trump and not like the Democratic Party at the same time.

I'm considered a liberal because I believe in honoring the sentiments of the Declaration of Independence and actually making it so we are all treated as equals. Socially I'm a liberal but at my core I'm a get your fudging government hands out of our pockets kind of guy.

When we outrightly own our own homes they want us to pay them. That's not ownership. That's not how a free market society is supposed to operate.

When I want to errect wind turbines, rain water reconstitution, solar panels, composte toilets and other conservationist technology they take that as a threat. It's treated as hostility because I'm turning off the faucet of money they rely on. When I don't need their entities to survive they panic.

We operate mostly free but make no mistake this society is not free. It's been corrupted and perverted beyond recognition. They keep us fighting with each other over nonsense to distract us from coming together. They government knows that as organized citizens we can change things. If they keep us divided we'll never even have that first meeting that asks, "why do poor and middle class people pay up the ass but the rich skirt every way they can into paying their fair share"

Nobody's going to listen to me. Just know that when we argue about these issues with each other we're being neglectful of our freedoms because the real battle isn't with each other.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
9-Jul(#62)
You're thoughts are appreciated Prime, by some of us anyhow.

Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#63)
I don't care when people neg me, sometimes I'm asking for it. I just don't know how a reasonable person could have read all that and decided they disagreed with all of it. You could disagree with some but if you disagree with everything then you're simply an unreasonable human being.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
9-Jul(#64)
"Healthcare I like the idea of being universally free but I think if you ran healthcare like we run social security where you are forced to pay in a little from each paycheck it could cover everyone. "

Would be refreshing to talk about issues and solutions rather than political idealogy and labelling.

Currently I think Medicare payroll tax is 1.45% of gross pay, with both employee and employer paying that amount, Social Security payroll tax is 7.65% of gross x 2 for private sector employees/employers, public sector folks pay into separate retirement programs with no SS tax.

Don't need free public post secondary education necessarily, but would be great if general ed requirements for college were out and
folks could get their professional/vocational course work done in 4 or 5 semesters. Save a crap load.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 9-Jul(#65)
They're talking about reducing social security benefits. Which is the a literal theft of our money. That's all our money. If they actually reduce benefits the government isn't even hiding or masking their blatant theft.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
* 9-Jul(#66)
Prime wrote:
> I hate the idea of a wasted vote. Just because NY was going to Hillary doesn't mean
> I don't shake my bewbs down the street to vote. When people don't vote because they
> think it's a waste it encourages so many more into a dereliction of duty to participate
> in elections.

It was not a wasted vote. Hillary was guaranteed to win NY so I had the freedom to vote my conscious. I think a wasted vote would have been to vote for someone I didn't want to be President in a state she couldn't possibly lose just to toe the party line.

> I don't think Bernie could have beaten trump because he was what a lot of people
> saw as a goofball outsider. I wasn't on board with the free college thing. Healthcare
> I like the idea of being universally free but I think if you ran healthcare like
> we run social security where you are forced to pay in a little from each paycheck
> it could cover everyone.

I have always hated when people say universal health care is free because its not really accurate. It would have been paid for with taxes just like Social Security is. It certainly wouldn't cost the consumer much if anything up front but it would have taken a bite out of people's taxes. Its just that right now people with health care coverage from work are already paying a boatload of their money for their health insurance so we'd be shifting the money they'd spend on their premiums/deductable to the government.


> I just think there were people who saw a vote for Hillary over trump as a vote for
> women blindly but those people weren't nessesarily for trump as much as they were
> against Hillary. I think trump got a nice bulk of votes that way. I think there were
> a lot of people who didn't vote because they saw two atrocious candidates. And as
> much as a wackadoo as Bernie is, he's a reasonable and fair man and I think you would
> have had people turn out to vote for him as a result of that. I think a lot of folks
> saw this election as being in between a rock and hard place and didn't feel like
> being sandwiched.
>
> In my opinion Trump and his rabbit ears have made a mockery of the presidency. What
> gets me every time is when conservatives or republicans turn a statement like that
> into some kind of pro Hillary vote of confidence or endorsement. It's not. I can
> not like Trump and not like the Democratic Party at the same time.

I 100% agree. And I don't think Hillary would have made a substantively better President than Trump. There are things Trump did that wouldn't have happened under a Hillary presidency but outside of the Supreme Court the only real tangible benefit of a Clinton Presidency would have been that she would have embarrassed the country a lot less than Trump has. But overall, she wouldn't have had the legislative authority to get much of anything done. Her Presidency would have been Obama 2.0.

yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
9-Jul(#67)
Oh and now that I think about it I don't think I voted for Jimmy McMillan after all. I think I wrote in Bernie Sanders as President and then wrote myself in as VP. smile
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#68)
I'll go back and read the rest in a second. If you voted you didn't waste the vote. Even if you voted for no one with a shot. It might seem futile but the excersie of getting down there actually means something. I was talking about the no shows.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#69)
Umm yanks you do know that taxes don't pay social security right? We pay taxes and we pay totally seperate money into social security. There are no bankers making a buck off the transaction like they do with taxes. That's why politicians fudging hate social security. Forget the logistical problem of when all the baby boomers start collecting and the generation that paid into it before them was half the size. Politicians hate SS cause no one makes a buck. It's literally a river of money we pay into so we have some later.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#70)
Bernie was the most honest and decent human being in the race. The other two were fudging monsters. We didn't get the savvy, ball busting trump from the 80s and 90s. We got a giant infalable, incompetent ninny with an ego so easily bruised he soaks the pillow every night.

Goes to show you how dumb voters really are. Bernies platforms in so many regards had two chances to actually get passed into legislation: Slim and None. All of congress would have had to pay double and even triple the taxes depending on which loophole they were exploiting. Fat chance any of the socialistic garbage actually made it through.

He might have been successful eliminating some of the lobbies, reforming some of the campaign finance BS, hiring a literate non retard to head our education department, pulled back some millitary spending and actually plugged some of that money back into the country and reinvested in the infrastructure we've been neglecting for 100 years. You know actually act like a president and help the people of the nation who are so ffudging busy looking the other way while the government and everyone participating in it robs the American public blind all the while giving us ogots to show for it beyond trash removal and painted yellow lines on the roads.

He also wouldn't have asked Putin for a creamy White Russian facial and responded "thank you sir may I please have another"
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
9-Jul(#71)
Prime wrote:
> Umm yanks you do know that taxes don't pay social security right? We pay taxes and
> we pay totally seperate money into social security. There are no bankers making a
> buck off the transaction like they do with taxes. That's why politicians fudging
> hate social security. Forget the logistical problem of when all the baby boomers
> start collecting and the generation that paid into it before them was half the size.
> Politicians hate SS cause no one makes a buck. It's literally a river of money we
> pay into so we have some later.

SS is a tax. Its not money that is paid in voluntarily.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#72)
But that's not what you said. Clearly I'm being a stickler because I got where you were going with it. But what you said and meant were not the same thing sir.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#73)
Trump won because he scared white men into thinking that they actually have any power to regain. LOL. Dear white men. The government only gives a minuscule fudge more about you then it does women or people of color. You will never have any power ever again. Not until the new revolution and even then I suggest working with people of color because while the media works tirelessly to divide us on orders handed down by Murdoch and all the other fudgeface dildos in power the thing they fear more than anything is us coming together and actually taking the country back. Not from Hollywood, not from the poor, not from the criminals, not from women making less then men for the same work, not from queers or immigrants but from them. They spend a large part of their fortune keeping us at each other's throats so they can run the country and the world as they see fit.

Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 9-Jul(#74)
Well that was a mistake. I'm either getting memed on XD or i'm about to hear a different take on the Day of the Rope.
Mexico
Double Gold Good Trader
9-Jul(#75)
Karaiya wrote:
> I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics
> and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and Reagan's
> of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold war ended
> and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle
> is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks can't
> deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait and news
> sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead rather
> than maintaining a status quo.
>
> Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare are so
> triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat of
> losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was on it.
> When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you can
> see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket book
> and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.
>
> 20 -25 million people will likely be paying for that vote for the sake of holding on to Capitalism for basic life needs

Do you still not understand why I call you a marxist? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is probably a statement you strongly agree with right?
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
9-Jul(#76)
Mexico: our government when it was actually helping its people on a regular basis was actually allocating funds to go towards things based on need. It's not the people's responsibility to share their wealth or power. But the government isn't supposed to have financial power like it does, a stranglehold on over its people. Over other governments sure but not its people.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 10-Jul(#77)
Mexico wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> I understand why conservatives are so averse and triggered by socialist economics
>> and legislation as for the past 60 years you've had Mcarthy's, Hoover's, and Reagan's
>> of the world manipulating and scaring the crap out of Americans. The cold war
> ended
>> and the fear remained. The only reason for a progressive push in social lifestyle
>> is that information can be gathered away from the news. Most far right folks
> can't
>> deal with changes around them so they clench at old conservative clickbait and
> news
>> sources. Similiarly so do progressives but progressives are looking ahead rather
>> than maintaining a status quo.
>>
>> Its unfortunate that those things like income equality and social welfare are
> so
>> triggering because. That same fear is resulting in old Trump voters at threat
> of
>> losing health insurance. One of the reasons . Because of the name that was on
> it.
>> When they found out oh crap i kind of like my health insurance well, as you can
>> see. The town hall meetings. This is whay happens when you vote your pocket
> book
>> and single issue feelings. You end up voting against your own best interests.
>
>>
>> 20 -25 million people will likely be paying for that vote for the sake of holding
> on to Capitalism for basic life needs
>
> Do you still not understand why I call you a marxist? "From each according to his
> ability, to each according to his needs" is probably a statement you strongly agree
> with right?

To the second question yes, you are correct, I don't think I've ever denied my own criticism for capitalism. However, I have many criticisms about socialism. I'll be honest I do have many things I agree that Karl Marx wrote economically in the instances of someone right to health and well being. Yes, I do understand.

To the first. Your calling me a Marxist had come in lifestyle discussion about parenting, homosexuality, and polyamory which is greatly irrelevant as Karl Marx wrote literature about economics. He wrote very little about sexuality other than discussing the need evolving the value of genders to move away from capitalism. He likely encouraged public as opposed to private parenting. Similarly, to the phrase "it takes a village".

I'm not upset you would call me a Marxist. I just called it a reach because the context of that conversation had very little do with economics. Thats the part I didn't understand. Other than you feeling the need to call me a Marxist and felt it was the appropriate opportunity. Which is fine being called a Marxist doesn't trigger me the same way the word "bigot", "racist" "______phobe" do you.



Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 10-Jul(#78)
Prime wrote:
> Trump won because he scared white men into thinking that they actually have any power
> to regain. LOL. Dear white men. The government only gives a minuscule fudge more about
> you then it does women or people of color. You will never have any power ever again.
> Not until the new revolution and even then I suggest working with people of color
> because while the media works tirelessly to divide us on orders handed down by Murdoch
> and all the other fudgeface dildos in power the thing they fear more than anything
> is us coming together and actually taking the country back. Not from Hollywood, not
> from the poor, not from the criminals, not from women making less then men for the
> same work, not from queers or immigrants but from them. They spend a large part of
> their fortune keeping us at each other's throats so they can run the country and
> the world as they see fit.
>
>

Slow that down a bit Prime. While I agree with the sentiment in some ways lets I'd strongly argue that these voters didn't need to have the "scare" put in them. These people were already scared. But more so they were angry and had felt silenced. They just felt Trump empowered and gave them their voice. And lets be real he did a great job energizing them. At the same time, lets remember that the vast majority of people holding the real power and capital are also white men.

So yes there is a simultaneous intersecting class and race issue in this country. Which works in the favor of those in power as they can pull the strings on whom they like and divide us seamlessly. But, considering the golden era of the civil rights era ended 3/4 of a century ago. I would still argue the government favors certain groups of people large fudge more than others. We can just look at mass incarceration to the answer for that.

What we can say is that if you are working class or poor life kind of sucks for you and will likely get worse.


Mexico
Double Gold Good Trader
* 13-Jul(#79)
Karaiya wrote:
> Mexico wrote:
>
> To the second question yes, you are correct, I don't think I've ever denied my own
> criticism for capitalism. However, I have many criticisms about socialism. I'll
> be honest I do have many things I agree that Karl Marx wrote economically in the
> instances of someone right to health and well being. Yes, I do understand.

My little commie I am not sure you fully understand.

>
> To the first. Your calling me a Marxist had come in lifestyle discussion about parenting,
> homosexuality, and polyamory which is greatly irrelevant as Karl Marx wrote literature
> about economics. He wrote very little about sexuality other than discussing the
> need evolving the value of genders to move away from capitalism. He likely encouraged
> public as opposed to private parenting. Similarly, to the phrase "it takes a village".
>

What Marx proposed was not limited to class warfare based on income inequality but rather was the method of his theory. To boil it down you create in groups and outgroups, create a narrative of historical oppression to fuel victimization, and then you solidify the victims against the oppressors to bring about your revolution. His theory has been applied to culture as a whole and has been instrumental in bringing about postmodernism, deconstructionism, critical theory, etc. You ever see those college kids that are self proclaimed SJWs and proud of it chant stuff like "you have nothing to lose but your chains"? That is the popular slogan ripped right out of the communist manifesto. You ever see antifa consistently identifying as "anarcho-communists"? There is nothing about them that is anarchists, they are just commies that are unhappy that it is not a communist country. They do not want anarchy because it is a completely lawless society (pirating, homesteaders or wild west as examples of anarchy).

> I'm not upset you would call me a Marxist. I just called it a reach because the
> context of that conversation had very little do with economics. Thats the part I
> didn't understand. Other than you feeling the need to call me a Marxist and felt
> it was the appropriate opportunity. Which is fine being called a Marxist doesn't
> trigger me the same way the word "bigot", "racist" "______phobe" do you.
>

Those words do not trigger me because idiots throw them about without understanding the meaning behind them, what offends me is the stupidity of people that cheapen those words or purposely try to change their meanings (ex power + privilege = racism).
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 13-Jul(#80)
Mexico wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> Mexico wrote:
>>
>> To the second question yes, you are correct, I don't think I've ever denied my
> own
>> criticism for capitalism. However, I have many criticisms about socialism. I'll
>> be honest I do have many things I agree that Karl Marx wrote economically in the
>> instances of someone right to health and well being. Yes, I do understand.
>
> My little commie I am not sure you fully understand.
We are talking about socialism vs. capitalism not communism. Although Marx was a "commie". I am not.
>
>>
>> To the first. Your calling me a Marxist had come in lifestyle discussion about
> parenting,
>> homosexuality, and polyamory which is greatly irrelevant as Karl Marx wrote literature
>> about economics. He wrote very little about sexuality other than discussing the
>> need evolving the value of genders to move away from capitalism. He likely encouraged
>> public as opposed to private parenting. Similarly, to the phrase "it takes a
> village".
>>
>
> What Marx proposed was not limited to class warfare based on income inequality but
> rather was the method of his theory. To boil it down you create in groups and outgroups,
> create a narrative of historical oppression to fuel victimization, and then you solidify
> the victims against the oppressors to bring about your revolution. His theory has
> been applied to culture as a whole and has been instrumental in bringing about postmodernism,
> deconstructionism, critical theory, etc. You ever see those college kids that are
> self proclaimed SJWs and proud of it chant stuff like "you have nothing to lose but
> your chains"? That is the popular slogan ripped right out of the communist manifesto.
> You ever see antifa consistently identifying as "anarcho-communists"? There is nothing
> about them that is anarchists, they are just commies that are unhappy that it is
> not a communist country. They do not want anarchy because it is a completely lawless
> society (pirating, homesteaders or wild west as examples of anarchy).
I'm well aware of what Antifa is doing more so than you.
>
>> I'm not upset you would call me a Marxist. I just called it a reach because the
>> context of that conversation had very little do with economics. Thats the part
> I
>> didn't understand. Other than you feeling the need to call me a Marxist and felt
>> it was the appropriate opportunity. Which is fine being called a Marxist doesn't
>> trigger me the same way the word "bigot", "racist" "______phobe" do you.
>>
>
> Those words do not trigger me because idiots throw them about without understanding
> the meaning behind them, what offends me is the stupidity of people that cheapen
> those words or purposely try to change their meanings (ex power + privilege = racism).
>

OOOO tell me does the "ex" stand for white? Say what you mean coward.


Topic   Bernie & Jane Sanders under investigation for bank fraud.