Politics

Topic   DACA threatened

Osiris
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* 5-Sep(#1)
Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) is an American immigration policy founded by the Obama administration in June 2012. DACA allows certain illegal immigrants who entered the country as minors, to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred action from deportation and eligibility for a work permit.


making america great, or paranoid mean spiritedness?
ninesalone
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5-Sep(#2)
Osiris wrote:
> Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) is an American immigration policy founded
> by the Obama administration in June 2012. DACA allows certain illegal immigrants
> who entered the country as minors, to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred
> action from deportation and eligibility for a work permit.
>
>
> making america great, or paranoid mean spiritedness?

Constitutional. Already have corporations complaining that they're going to lose money because they are being forced to hire Americans who they can't pay slave wages. Trump is calling on Congress to do their job (6 month time frame), where Obama's blatantly unconstitutional move bypassed that.

Also, the retards are out in full-force today claiming (again) that Trump is anti-immigrant. When are democrats going to learn the difference between "illegal-immigration" and "legal immigration?"

Also, why is everyone afraid of Mexico? You constantly hear these people rail on about how America is and was founded on racism, yet they are willing to break the law and risk their life to get here? Why isn't the conversation centered around WHY folks are taking that risk? What about the ones who can't cross the border? Let's talk about making Mexico a place people don't want to leave.
Osiris
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* 5-Sep(#3)
many fun legal arguments to dig into and tons of citations debating constitutionality of DACA policies

If the Trump administration ends the program, the American Civil Liberties Union and others have vowed to pursue the issue "[The] DACA is a lawful exercise of the enforcement discretion that Congress delegated to the executive branch in the Immigration and Nationality Act, which charges the executive with "the administration and enforcemen of the country's immigration laws ", the group argued in a statement released after Paxton's announcement.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-the....

Bluto: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the fudging Peace Corps.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Sep(#4)
ninesalone wrote:
> Osiris wrote:
>> Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) is an American immigration policy
> founded
>> by the Obama administration in June 2012. DACA allows certain illegal immigrants
>> who entered the country as minors, to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred
>> action from deportation and eligibility for a work permit.
>>
>>
>> making america great, or paranoid mean spiritedness?
>
> Constitutional. Already have corporations complaining that they're going to lose
> money because they are being forced to hire Americans who they can't pay slave wages.
> Trump is calling on Congress to do their job (6 month time frame), where Obama's
> blatantly unconstitutional move bypassed that.
>
> Also, the retards are out in full-force today claiming (again) that Trump is anti-immigrant.
> When are democrats going to learn the difference between "illegal-immigration" and
> "legal immigration?"
>
> Also, why is everyone afraid of Mexico? You constantly hear these people rail on
> about how America is and was founded on racism, yet they are willing to break the
> law and risk their life to get here? Why isn't the conversation centered around WHY
> folks are taking that risk? What about the ones who can't cross the border? Let's
> talk about making Mexico a place people don't want to leave.
>

Are you actually interested in having that conversation or is this a well intentioned comment to make you sound like you care about Mexico and the struggles within that country? What kind of tangible ideas or solutions do you have to making Mexico a better place? Are you willing to focus tax payer dollars to that process? Ending the war on drugs perhaps?
ninesalone
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5-Sep(#5)
Karaiya wrote:

>Ending the war on drugs perhaps?

Absolutely
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Sep(#6)
ninesalone wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>
> |>Ending the war on drugs perhaps?
>
> Absolutely

Thats definitely where it starts.
DiamondDave
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* 5-Sep(#7)
ninesalone wrote:
> Why isn't the conversation centered around WHY
> folks are taking that risk? What about the ones who can't cross the border? Let's
> talk about making Mexico a place people don't want to leave.
>

It's a good question, but ultimately not one we should be responsible for answering. That should be all on Mexico. It's our job to secure the border and deport illegal immigrants when the situation arises.

While I think the Wall as Trump envisions it is a colossal waste of time, money and resources when we have MUCH more important things to worry about (I seriously laugh my ass off that this is #1 with a bullet for so many people even as our infrastructures crumble around us) and I'm laughing my ass off at all the asinine ways he's tried to get it funded, I can't really be bothered to care about this, probably because I'm not a hopeful unlawful immigrant. Such is my privilege. Good for me.
ninesalone
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* 6-Sep(#8)
DiamondDave wrote:

> It's a good question, but ultimately not one we should be responsible for answering.
> That should be all on Mexico. It's our job to secure the border and deport illegal
> immigrants when the situation arises.

You're right. We're not responsible for answering that. I'm just wondering where that conversation is. If Mexico is such a place where people are risking life and limb to get here., what about the majority who are... Still in Mexico?

While I'm no Christian, I am friends with Christians who do missionary work down there as well as charity. From what these friends have told me, American poverty is like royalty to what they witness. I'm not saying it's our responsibility to fix Mexico as I am highly skeptical of any interventionism. I'm just asking why the conversation isn't happening there. America (and Trump) are being painted up like the villains daily. What about the crooks who run these 3rd world countries people are so desperate to escape? Do they not bear responsibility here?

> While I think the Wall as Trump envisions it is a colossal waste of time, money and
> resources when we have MUCH more important things to worry about (I seriously laugh
> my ass off that this is #1 with a bullet for so many people even as our infrastructures
> crumble around us) and I'm laughing my ass off at all the asinine ways he's tried
> to get it funded,

It's not going to solve the illegal immigration problem in and of itself. It's a vital part of solving it as a whole though. It's LONG overdue. It should have went up decades ago. By then, instead of fleeing to America, people may have stayed and reformed Mexico, helping countless others.


> I can't really be bothered to care about this, probably because
> I'm not a hopeful unlawful immigrant. Such is my privilege. Good for me.

Well, at least you're honest. I do have empathy here, regardless of my position against DACA. I think there is a problem to be solved that "Deferred Action" isn't helping.
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#9)
99 percent of problems the US has are created indirectly by the US. Someone needs to conquer this country and overthrow our regime. Perhaps our past and present allies can band together and save us from ourselves.

I'm willing to bet people flee Mexico to the US because our meddling in their affairs is screwing up their country. They come here because we're closest.
Osiris
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* 6-Sep(#10)
Nieto: I fully agree that we should work together. And let me tell you that a lot of what is happening in terms of traffickers in Mexico is being largely supported by the illegal amounts of money and weapons coming from the United States. And this has led Mexico to fight against criminal gangs with the participation of the military and the entire army of Mexico. And this has taken many lives within the military and all the elements that are committed in this fight. But they are criminal groups that are well-armed, especially with weapons coming from the United States illegally into Mexico. I fully agree that both governments can work together to knock out and to do away fully with these criminal gangs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/polit...
Osiris
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* 6-Sep(#11)
Trump: I know how to build very inexpensively, so it will be much lower than these numbers I am being presented with, and it will be a better wall and it will look nice.

Trump doing the design, development and engineering drawings and onsite management? What's the longest, tallest wall his RE development company has built to date? Does he believe these things when he says them?
DiamondDave
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6-Sep(#12)
Of course he does, his ego overrides all other forms of critical thinking and self-analysis because he's perma-churlish.
Osiris
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* 6-Sep(#13)
i just can't stop wondering when members of the Trump base will say " Oh crap, this isn't as simple and easy as we were told to expect! Hillary sucked, but this chaos isn't leading us anywhere"
theyrhere
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6-Sep(#14)
Osiris wrote:
> i just can't stop wondring when members of the Trump base will say " Oh crap, this
> isn't as simple and easy as we were told to expect! Hillary sucked, but this chaos
> isn't leading us anywhere"

Lol don't kid yourself, that will never happen.
DiamondDave
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6-Sep(#15)
Nah
ninesalone
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6-Sep(#16)
SirConnery wrote:
> 99 percent of problems the US has are created indirectly by the US. Someone needs
> to conquer this country and overthrow our regime. Perhaps our past and present allies
> can band together and save us from ourselves.
>
> I'm willing to bet people flee Mexico to the US because our meddling in their affairs
> is screwing up their country. They come here because we're closest.

So what you're saying is 99% of America's problems are caused by America and most of Mexico's are.... caused by America too? Can you elaborate on this?

You also say America "needs to be overthrown." Is this a joke or another anti-American leftist position? It's hard to tell the difference anymore.
DefaultGen
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6-Sep(#17)
http://evangelicalsforbiblicalimmigration.com/arch...

Not sure why anyone would be against this. Remember the teachings of the bible. Jesus said #AllLivesMatter, American citizens first, send 'em back to Ecuador!

image
Karaiya
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6-Sep(#18)
Jesus started hashtags.
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#19)
Each major American branch of service has a group of people that deserted their original positions and decided they could make more money using tax payer resources to work on the side. The drug war is an example of this. Many of the drug lords were created by the power vacuum created when we meddled where we had no business. Then we have those of our own government participating in illegal activities to try and infiltrate the cartels, only to eventually switch sides and join in. It's government spending way out of control. Many of the conflicts over decades are the result of the United States hanging out in regions longer then they need to. They enable militants to overthrow a regime only to have those militants become the new de facto regime they can fight to overthrow 20 years later.

This country is being run behind the scenes by white nationalists. I'm not talking about those torch burning idiots out there. I'm talking about wealthy white nationalists. Their power struggle is becoming more apparent with Trump being president. He's a fake republican that was a democrat first, and in many cases still is. He's using the blatant stupidity of people to further his own agenda of making money. I'm a democrat but if we're going to have a republican in power, they should actually be a republican. I really miss George W Bush. I didn't agree with him, but damn at least he was predictable.

Here's a rough possible timeline:
-- First you deport daca people. When they discover more illegals during daca deportation they decide to start deporting all illegals.
-- The cost to do this is so huge it hits the stock market badly.
-- By this point Trump either is impeached or steps down due to health reasons. Pence takes over.
-- Pence furthers his anti-gay and anti-transgender agendas. These people become targets in massive sweeping hate crimes. Many flee to Canada where they're welcomed. They start their own gated communities in Mexico.


Saying overthrow doesn't mean I'm anti-American, I'm anti-white nationalist. I want real government based on our constitution and taking into account the compassion we should have for other countries and their struggles. I want us to stop being the military bully and aggressor. I'm willing to bet many people will join the revolution and countries that are normally neutral will take up arms to help us. We as a country have become our own worst enemies. A country built as a melting pot of all nations decided randomly to reverse course and dump all nationalities one by one? I don't buy it. This is white nationalism run amok. Even true conservative republicans aren't this heartless. Hell Ronald Reagan would have handled this better.
Karaiya
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6-Sep(#20)
Its really what it is. Those coming in from Mexico, Central, and South America are also Christians too. They've nothing to convert to as the document stated earlier. They have those values already. The narrative is that they are stealing jobs, criminals, and rapists.
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#21)
White Nationalists are also anti public education. After they kick out all the daca and illegals, who's going to take all those low wage jobs? Dumb uneducated white people of course, unless they can re-enable slavery somehow. Without spending on public education you cultivate a group of uneducated white yes men. You're going to have a huge caste of people that cannot achieve independence and are destined to be low wage laborers forever.
DiamondDave
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* 6-Sep(#22)
I mean, that's the way it's been trending regardless, for decades now. Why do you think wages have remained so stagnant?

Kids are out of college with their useless papers to become history's most expensively-educated indebted baristas.
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#23)
They're the lucky ones and they don't even know it. College education overall will be reserved for wealthy white people born into the right families and priced fixed so high that nobody else can achieve it.
Osiris
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6-Sep(#24)
well that was pretty detailed...doesn't appear that SirConnery is a leftist today.
Karaiya
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6-Sep(#25)
SirConnery is more right than most care to realize.
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#26)
These parties tend to flip every few decades.

I vote for Democrats nationally but all Republicans locally.
ninesalone
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* 6-Sep(#27)
Lots to unpack here. I do appreciate you clarifying what you meant.

SirConnery wrote:
> Each major American branch of service has a group of people that deserted their original
> positions and decided they could make more money using tax payer resources to work
> on the side. The drug war is an example of this. Many of the drug lords were created
> by the power vacuum created when we meddled where we had no business. Then we have
> those of our own government participating in illegal activities to try and infiltrate
> the cartels, only to eventually switch sides and join in. It's government spending
> way out of control. Many of the conflicts over decades are the result of the United
> States hanging out in regions longer then they need to. They enable militants to
> overthrow a regime only to have those militants become the new de facto regime they
> can fight to overthrow 20 years later.

Mostly agree here. yes

> This country is being run behind the scenes by white nationalists. I'm not talking
> about those torch burning idiots out there. I'm talking about wealthy white nationalists.

This is completely absurd to me. I think you're conflating things that don't belong in the same group, as the corporate media does.

"White Nationalist" is the conflation. Is Nationalism, in and of itself, a bad thing? I'm a nationalist.... a lot of conservatives are. I'm also white. When I refer to nationalism I'm talking about putting America's interests first. Nowhere does race play into this. If you mean it to be a kind of "white supremacy" do you think the government is "run behind the scenes" by racial supremacists? I would counter and say it's "globalist' who are running a lot behind the scenes and they are overtly opposed to nationalism because it is not in their political or business interests. This is why the media likes to conflate these terms. It's as dishonest as saying you're a communist who wants to dismantle individual rights because you support some social services.

> Their power struggle is becoming more apparent with Trump being president. He's a
> fake republican that was a democrat first, and in many cases still is.

I was a registered libertarian before Trump. His "America First' agenda is what got people on-board (nationalism). Globalists have been swirling this country down the drain for decades. Trump was NEEDED.

> He's using
> the blatant stupidity of people to further his own agenda of making money.

You think a successful billionaire ran and became president to.. make money?

>I'm a
> democrat but if we're going to have a republican in power, they should actually be
> a republican. I really miss George W Bush. I didn't agree with him, but damn at least
> he was predictable.

Well, the reality is Trump pushed the GOP ahead like 20 years. Grassroots conservatives are ANGRY at republicans who are not on-board. He has evolved the party into something that beat what Democrats thought was a shoe-in (Hillary). He's a threat to the dishonest media and the identity politics that have poisoned the country in so many ways.

> Here's a rough possible timeline:
> -- First you deport daca people. When they discover more illegals during daca deportation
> they decide to start deporting all illegals.
> -- The cost to do this is so huge it hits the stock market badly.
> -- By this point Trump either is impeached or steps down due to health reasons. Pence
> takes over.
> -- Pence furthers his anti-gay and anti-transgender agendas. These people become
> targets in massive sweeping hate crimes. Many flee to Canada where they're welcomed.
> They start their own gated communities in Mexico.

Sounds more like a leftist fantasy. Also, the hate-crime surge is total bullcrap. Please don't point to the SPLC as it's the least credible source possible.

> Saying overthrow doesn't mean I'm anti-American, I'm anti-white nationalist.

If you mean that to be "anti-racial supremacy" I'm totally with you here. So are most people from both parties.

Also, there are real racial supremacist countries, such as Japan.

> I want
> real government based on our constitution and taking into account the compassion
> we should have for other countries and their struggles. I want us to stop being the
> military bully and aggressor.

I agree.

> I'm willing to bet many people will join the revolution
> and countries that are normally neutral will take up arms to help us. We as a country
> have become our own worst enemies. A country built as a melting pot of all nations
> decided randomly to reverse course and dump all nationalities one by one? I don't
> buy it. This is white nationalism run amok. Even true conservative republicans aren't
> this heartless. Hell Ronald Reagan would have handled this better.

The country was built on a melting pot of mostly European/African countries up until the 1960s. Importing immigrants from the 3rd world is a relatively new phenomenon. I'm not against legal immigration from most countries, provided they don't bring backwards cultures with them like marrying children and treating women like property, etc. They should come legally to become Americans.
theyrhere
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6-Sep(#28)
Damn, SirConnery isn't someone I expected to be so damn real
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#29)
ninesalone wrote:
> This is completely absurd to me. I think you're conflating things that don't belong
> in the same group, as the corporate media does.
>
> "White Nationalist" is the conflation. Is Nationalism, in and of itself, a bad thing?
> I'm a nationalist.... a lot of conservatives are. I'm also white. When I refer to
> nationalism I'm talking about putting America's interests first. Nowhere does race
> play into this. If you mean it to be a kind of "white supremacy" do you think the
> government is "run behind the scenes" by racial supremacists? I would counter and
> say it's "globalist' who are running a lot behind the scenes and they are overtly
> opposed to nationalism because it is not in their political or business interests.
> This is why the media likes to conflate these terms. It's as dishonest as saying
> you're a communist who wants to dismantle individual rights because you support some
> social services.

I think Nationalism is absolutely bad. Don't confuse it with Patriotism. I think Patriotism is fine. There's a clear distinction between the two. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/patr...

> I was a registered libertarian before Trump. His "America First' agenda is what got
> people on-board (nationalism). Globalists have been swirling this country down the
> drain for decades. Trump was NEEDED.

When I think of true Republicans I think of John McCain, John Kasich, Jeb Bush, Norm Coleman, Michael Bloomberg. Conservatism is needed to counteract Democratic values provided it's true Conservatism. The pendulum needs to swing the other direction every few decades. This fake half-assing it is a joke.

Trump is part of the grand lie that Republican's bought into because they wanted absolute power no matter the consequences. The consequences are still coming, but it's going to hit their pocketbooks really bad. Trump is very much a Democrat that decided to use the failings of the other party to his advantage. He's even admitted this. He was never a really good Democrat anyway, he just sided with whatever party would benefit his interests.

> You think a successful billionaire ran and became president to.. make money?

This depends on your definition of success. Personally I define a successful billionaire as someone who is very wealthy. Wealth in my mind is what remains when you take what you own and subtract debt. Credit line reach is not part of what you own.

Trump owes way more then what he owns. His net loss is crazy high. The fact that nobody can determine his full debt size is even worse. His kids don't have separate wealth, instead they're managing portions of Trump's assets. By spreading his debt and asset management across multiple family members, he's able to shield some of the debt.

I can understand if Trump leaves the White House with wealth but he didn't enter the White House with anything but debt. He's a pro at hiding debt burden so that he appears wealthy. It's the robbing peter to pay paul idea on a massive international scale. He used to be very rich, but this dream about becoming president killed it. He's gone out of his way to achieve it and what's he's done is very far reaching. He essentially bought the job using money he didn't even have to begin with.

> Well, the reality is Trump pushed the GOP ahead like 20 years. Grassroots conservatives
> are ANGRY at republicans who are not on-board. He has evolved the party into something
> that beat what Democrats thought was a shoe-in (Hillary). He's a threat to the dishonest
> media and the identity politics that have poisoned the country in so many ways.

Hillary was never a shoe in because the election was fixed. Much of the media is a dramatic mantra that keeps sheep in line on both sides. Mostly to get poorer, uneducated conservatives to buy into the grand lie.
SirConnery
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6-Sep(#30)
Think of nationalism like this:

image
ninesalone
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* 6-Sep(#31)
SirConnery wrote:

> I think Nationalism is absolutely bad. Don't confuse it with Patriotism. I think
> Patriotism is fine. There's a clear distinction between the two. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/patr...

You honestly should click your own link and read the article. It's talking about how the word
"nationalism" means different things to different people. That's what we've established here. If you are defining it in it's extreme (racial or aggressive military) then I'm not a nationalist. I simply define it as "putting American interests first."

> When I think of true Republicans I think of John McCain, John Kasich, Jeb Bush, Norm
> Coleman, Michael Bloomberg. Conservatism is needed to counteract Democratic values
> provided it's true Conservatism. The pendulum needs to swing the other direction
> every few decades. This fake half-assing it is a joke.


I would call most of those people RINOs. But now you're using another term here we may have different definitions for. I highly doubt your idea of "true conservatism" is anything like mine.

Instead, I'll ask you what do you mean by the 'pendulum swinging the other direction?" Are we too far 'right' after Obama's 2 term presidency? Also, I often use this analogy to refer to Trump and his agenda pushing back against us swinging far left. That seems more accurate considering the aforementioned president.


> Trump is part of the grand lie that Republican's bought into because they wanted
> absolute power no matter the consequences. The consequences are still coming, but
> it's going to hit their pocketbooks really bad. Trump is very much a Democrat that
> decided to use the failings of the other party to his advantage. He's even admitted
> this. He was never a really good Democrat anyway, he just sided with whatever party
> would benefit his interests.

Again, conservative politicians are failing if they are not on-board with Trump's agenda. Grassroots groups are PISSED at Paul Ryan and the people you call "true conservatives."


> Hillary was never a shoe in because the election was fixed. Much of the media is
> a dramatic mantra that keeps sheep in line on both sides. Mostly to get poorer, uneducated
> conservatives to buy into the grand lie.

Now you're saying the media is actively seeking out "poor, uneducated conservatives." Conservatives have abandoned the mainstream media who have abandoned them a long time ago. Most media outlets are owned by 6 major corporations and sing the same politically correct tune aimed at... Liberals.

This is why I have to ask if you're joking. Your assessment of Trump and the media is so far removed from reality, you have to wonder.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
6-Sep(#32)
Nines, I agree with the points SirConnerybhas made as well. I think when he is speaking of white nationalism, he is speaking about the American White persons vision of what America is. That is White Anglo Saxon Protestant control of governement and wealth or the maintaining of that status quo. Our history is built on that all the way up to the civil rights movement. The new alt-right narrative is that white men are persecuted and or oppressed which is not exactly true. However, I do think that working class white men have been marginalized by government the narrative they choose to believe is that it is the fault of immigrants, or Muslims, or that their way of life is changing. When people say Make America Great Again, what does that mean. For folks like me we had slavery, Jim Crow, a civil rights movement that was met with violent resistance, crack, a welfare pit. Now this is the fault of not just the GOP Democrats also have a major role.

Donald Trump appeals to white nationalists because he is one. Even if one is not directly a Nazi or KKK that kind of deep rooted power struggle of the white nationalist wealthy elite is happening ans you're seeing those folks coming to a head at the very top.

We arent just seeing a division in race and identity politics. We are seeing a economoc war between the last bit of oil tycoons and industrial revolution remnants that are typically super conservative and nationalist and a globalist tech industry that overwhelmingly leans left.
ninesalone
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* 6-Sep(#33)
Karaiya wrote:
>However, I do think that
> working class white men have been marginalized by government the narrative they choose
> to believe is that it is the fault of immigrants, or Muslims, or that their way of
> life is changing.

I do not blame immigrants or Muslims for the decline of middle-class America. Some of the racial things you guys say is so bizarre to me considering the type of people I met helping our local mayor become state rep. Trump was big in the news and I personally talked to pro-Trump Indian immigrants, Asian, and Hispanic. Of course, these are legal immigrants.

This isn't the only example either. You do know that there ARE people that aren't white that support Trump... right?


>When people say Make America Great Again, what does that mean.

To put it simply as I can, economic prosperity. A thriving middle-class.

> For folks like me we had slavery, Jim Crow, a civil rights movement that was met
> with violent resistance, crack, a welfare pit. Now this is the fault of not just
> the GOP Democrats also have a major role.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but you didn't go through any of that. Perhaps welfare, and I've already talked about how that disproportionately affects the black community. I don't think Trump or the GOP are out pushing food stamps and Obama phones. What they are pushing is American jobs, which would benefit all Americans, regardless of race. The companies that have left to China and elsewhere... That was many people's start to getting out of the poverty trap, including minorities. Just look at what has happened to Detroit.

tonymack21
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* 7-Sep(#34)
anyone else find it odd that the Donald is taking so much blame for so many things and hes been in office less than a year? all these issues were already happening and these social problems aren't new.
also according to what ive seen all current DACA people are still eligible for it and can still renew before whatever change would go into effect.

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Osiris
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* 7-Sep(#35)
Just to leave aside the white culture anxiety that is a concern of the Trump base, let's address economic prosperity.

Trump wants to levy tariffs on goods from outside the US, creating higher costs so American manufacturers can compete with countries with cheap labor. The problem is that even if this happens, companies will use automation here rather than hire humans as a cost advantage.

Infrastructure spending would have been a economic boon, but Trump largely ignored it. Lots of jobs there.

In a mature capitalist economy, you can't compete on consumer goods pricing with emerging economies who are following the old US example. You have to figure out and train for new industries.

You can spend government money for incentives for keeping old industries alive or invest in supporting new technologies and infrastructure.
Osiris
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7-Sep(#36)
tonymack21 wrote:
> anyone else find it odd that the Donald is taking so much blame for so many things
> and hes been in office less than a year? all these issues were already happening


The problem is Trump ran on and started governing on the premise that "all these govt people before were idiots and the answers are simple" It's not that everybody was dumber than him, it's that the solutions are complicated and Trump isn't nearly as savvy as he and his supporters thought.
DiamondDave
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7-Sep(#37)
Heard on the radio it's estimated that DACA deportees will amount to about $2BN of lost revenue from people who couldn't draw entitlement or welfare, they only contributed to the pot. Though the way the argument was framed around that was slightly disappointing. raspberry
SirConnery
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7-Sep(#39)
I really believe the date's been set. Trump steps down on that date to pass the reigns to Pence, unless his health worsens or he's impeached sooner. Pence is the Koch brothers choice and Trump is just paving the way.
tonymack21
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7-Sep(#40)
even if he were to be impeached, which i don't believe will happen, there are no grounds that ive seen, that doesn't mean removal from office. Willie J was impeached. dems don't want Pence anymore than they want trump?

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Osiris
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7-Sep(#41)
i would think everybody gets on the Pence train, more predictable, experienced exec and legislator.

Trump much more likely to resign on own terms if he gets worn down or family members get dragged thru the muck.
tonymack21
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* 7-Sep(#42)
I think health would be the only factor, he wouldn't for any other reason i wouldn't think.

you can say its ego or whatever, but he could have run anytime in his life, why would he give up his golden years now, living the kind of life he could afford to live if he didn't care and wanted to do some good? if he didn't see the country was in trouble and he wanted to do something about it? they could be living in bora bora if they wanted to. i didn't agree with a lot of what Obama or Bush did but i think at one time they wanted to do some good too. it is probably pretty easy to get caught up in the crap that is Washington and the government and realize you can only do so much and probably little of what you set out to do. i don't think any of us realizes how little the government actually can do. its on the private sector to fix the economy, but they don't truly care about it as long as their pockets are lined, and its on people at the local and family level to fix most of the social problems we face. i wonder if we look to the government too much, but we've conditioned to? its what they want if you believe the conspiracy theories i guess.

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DiamondDave
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* 7-Sep(#43)
ninesalone wrote:
> Hmmm...
>

Haha. Self-burn. The fact that he was able to, once in the executive branch, do whatever the fudge he wanted regardless of the obvious reasons why he shouldn't be able to, should aptly demonstrate that the President has entirely too much power.

I didn't disagree with his executive action, but frankly in the context of executive overreach, even by his own definitions he extended much further than even he anticipated was possible.

Where he and Trump differ, to the vast majority of their actions, is that Obama did at least attempt the legislative solution to his problems for many years. Trump's pushed more paper through than he's fought fights in the legislative arena so far, but obviously we know which cool cat he got that order of due process from.
Gomez
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7-Sep(#44)
I've heard a lot of folks repeat the line from A Bronx Tale these days. "The saddest thing in life is wasted talent". For me I think one of the saddest things in life is willful ignorance. To have access to truths and choose to live in the dark is much more melancholy than someone with talent who ends up cloaked in mediocrity.

I've seen so many post the last few days filled will willfully ignorant hatred. The DACA program has higher standard to qualify and maintain than citizenship. As a citizen you can collect entitlements such as food stamps and public assistance. The folks at DACA can not. As a citizen you can break the law and remain here in this country, the members of DACA can not. The dreamers are the example of the kind of immigrants that we always say we want, educated, hard working, tax paying contributors.

If your the type that's just outrightly against immigration I may not agree with you but I'll respect your right to express your opinion. When I see people posting absolutely false information just to push their agenda forward I find it hard to maintain my trust in "the people". If you don't like or want immigrants fine just say so but stop backing up your opinions with lies and misdirection. Stop lying to me, yourself and everyone else. Own how you feel and have convictions, don't repeat lies and rhetoric just because that helps push your narrative. Seeing grown adults ring these false bells is frightening. An education doesn't have to take place in school or university. One can educate themselves from the comfort of their home. All they have to do is take off the blindfolds and take out the ear plugs.
Gomez
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7-Sep(#45)
To clarify most of the stuff I'm talking about I've seen on FB and social media. Not here.
SirConnery
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7-Sep(#46)
We're not exactly politician school on here so I can see why we wouldn't be a source.
Gomez
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7-Sep(#47)
SirConnery wrote:
> We're not exactly politician school on here so I can see why we wouldn't be a source.

No but we've usually got a few spitting venom. I think we've had more civil discussions recently. I have to go back and read the thread and see what I missed. I just paratrooped in and left that pile on everyone's lap.
ninesalone
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* 7-Sep(#48)
Prime wrote:

> I think we've had more civil discussions recently.

I think so too. I've also noticed a few more users participating and I'm quite sure that has a lot to do with it.
Gomez
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7-Sep(#49)
ninesalone wrote:
> Prime wrote:
>
>> I think we've had more civil discussions recently.
>
> I think so too. I've also noticed a few more users participating and I'm quite sure
> the two are related.

Well we got rid of a few blow hards who enjoyed talking more than listening so we're doing okay. I mean if you compare what this looks like now to what this was at it's inception it's definitely progress. The more we talk to each other the more common ground we find and the less we all fit in some box on the extreme side of things. We all have our core things that may shape what side we lean but most of us value and want a lot of the same things toward the center and lean in to get a better look.
tonymack21
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7-Sep(#50)
ninesalone wrote:
> Prime wrote:
>
>> I think we've had more civil discussions recently.
>
> I think so too. I've also noticed a few more users participating and I'm quite sure
> that has a lot to do with it.

Def. I am all for interesting and thoughtful, but most of the time would avoid this arena

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ninesalone
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7-Sep(#51)
Mexico's 2018 presidential front-runner says "doors are open."

https://cis.org/Luna/Mexican-Presidential-FrontRun...

"But if the Congress decides that it supports closing the doors to creators, soon -- very soon -- the doors of Mexico will open to all young people who want to advance in science, technology, and knowledge. In Mexico, the doors are open."
SirConnery
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7-Sep(#52)
Mexico, the new United States. Who will build their version of the Statue of Liberty?
Missile
Gold Good Trader
7-Sep(#53)
The cartel.
Gomez
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7-Sep(#54)
SirConnery wrote:
> Mexico, the new United States. Who will build their version of the Statue of Liberty?

What's their debt. Who do they owe money globally.
ninesalone
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8-Sep(#55)
Prime wrote:
> SirConnery wrote:
>> Mexico, the new United States. Who will build their version of the Statue of Liberty?
>
> What's their debt. Who do they owe money globally.

https://tradingeconomics.com/mexico/external-debt
dracula
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8-Sep(#56)
ninesalone wrote:
> Osiris wrote:
>> Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) is an American immigration policy
> founded
>> by the Obama administration in June 2012. DACA allows certain illegal immigrants
>> who entered the country as minors, to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred
>> action from deportation and eligibility for a work permit.
>>
>>
>> making america great, or paranoid mean spiritedness?
>
> Constitutional. Already have corporations complaining that they're going to lose
> money because they are being forced to hire Americans who they can't pay slave wages.
> Trump is calling on Congress to do their job (6 month time frame), where Obama's
> blatantly unconstitutional move bypassed that.
>
> Also, the retards are out in full-force today claiming (again) that Trump is anti-immigrant.
> When are democrats going to learn the difference between "illegal-immigration" and
> "legal immigration?"
>
> Also, why is everyone afraid of Mexico?

They are a bunch of drug dealers and rapists, at least the ones coming into the country, that is the vast majority of the Mexicans coming in illegally.


You constantly hear these people rail on
> about how America is and was founded on racism, yet they are willing to break the
> law and risk their life to get here? Why isn't the conversation centered around WHY
> folks are taking that risk? What about the ones who can't cross the border? Let's
> talk about making Mexico a place people don't want to leave.
>
SirConnery
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8-Sep(#57)
Is it Mexican's entering the United States illegally or Americans coming back? raspberry

You can be both Mexican and American.
DiamondDave
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8-Sep(#58)
SirConnery wrote:
> Is it Mexican's entering the United States illegally or Americans coming back? raspberry
>
> You can be both Mexican and American.

More Mexicans are going back to Mexico than coming in now.
SirConnery
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Secret Santa
8-Sep(#59)
Does going back mean they're going on their own or we're making/deporting them?
DiamondDave
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8-Sep(#60)
I didn't bother to look up that part. MAYBE BOTH? I mean, you can get pretty much a free ride if you just throw your hands up and walk into a police department I guess.
SirConnery
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8-Sep(#61)
Depends on where your located.

People have done that here and they get a free ride to the local Hispanic counsel. They get lodging, food, and job assistance.
DiamondDave
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8-Sep(#62)
Well crap, that don't sound bad either
Gomez
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8-Sep(#63)
Too many liberals up in this dog
DiamondDave
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8-Sep(#64)
I'm kinda jealous. Where's the White Boy Consulate
SirConnery
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Secret Santa
8-Sep(#65)
Milwaukee is also a sanctuary city so that's probably why.

White Boy Consulate, I think that's in the suburbs.

Topic   DACA threatened