Politics

Topic   They done did it Net Neutrality is dead.

six
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#1)
The FCC has voted to end Net Neutrality today, after losing in a 2-3 vote we may be screwed. I heard it will be months before the anything changes but this is very bad.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews
14-Dec(#2)
its very very bad. get ready to pay extra for your internet service and for all your services as the extra costs to the Netflix's and hulu's, playstation networks and xbl's of the world are going to be passed on to us. internet service is gonna go up and so is everything else. the writing was on the wall sadly.. so many people ditching cable and rightfully so was going to hit them so hard they would look to monopolize the internet.

this is how internet liberty dies.

HAMMER
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#3)
Boy the Trump administration sure is looking out for the consumer.
six
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#4)
The people who voted against it had to be in someone's pocket right ? It only benefits the isps for what I can see. I heard there's still a way to fight it though.
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#5)
Goodbye cruel internet world.

Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#6)
Hopefully this will knock some trump voters off fb who don't wanna pay up... You all know net neutrality ended when data plans started getting popular right, it's basically all you smart phone fudges faults

Prime
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Dec(#7)
NYS Attorney General is going to sue up to the Supreme Court. Washington State vows to not allow this statewide. If the people come out and our representatives from the right states come out and all link together this can be overturned.
SirConnery
GameTZ Subscriber 1000 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#8)
This is going to court first. If anyone is going to oppress you and your internet, they're going to wait a year until the chatter dies down.
Tim81DE
Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#9)
Any bets on how long it takes before @bill gets an offer from one of the big services?
Dashey
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review
14-Dec(#10)
Doesn't it still have to go to Congress?

MentalVortex
Silver Good Trader
14-Dec(#11)
Ajit Pai belongs on his knees.
youllbejustfine
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
14-Dec(#12)
I'm so so sorry guys... this sucks. Now let's hope it gets blocked by Congress.
sa330206
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#13)
Hopefully this will be enough to get this administration out of office in 2020. The whole argument of "we were fine before net neutrality" is crazy. Before we had net neutrality there are plenty of examples of ISPs trying to rip off the customer (ATT blocking VOIP, various ISPs blocking Google Wallet, etc). I've noticed even some of the hardcore supporters are even upset with this decision.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
14-Dec(#14)
Dashey wrote:
> Doesn't it still have to go to Congress?

Yes and the majority of it is owned by big corporations.

Y'all are fudgeed unless those lawsuits go somewhere.
darkslime
Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#15)
My ISP says they're not going to change their plans because of net neutrality. We'll see how long that lasts.
Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#16)
hack the planetttt

bill
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (15) Has Written 26 Reviews
* 14-Dec(#17)
GTZ Subscribers will now trade at 10x the speed!
Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#18)
How much billcoin for 6 month sub

Dashey
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review
14-Dec(#19)
bill wrote:
> GTZ Subscribers will now trade and 10x the speed!

Does that mean we have to pay extra to block users?


Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#20)
Tfw GTZ is literally the last place online that lets you do deals without tax (I consider having to talk to people on Facebook a tax)

Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#21)
Can Dashey pay for woderator status with billcoin

six
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#22)
bill wrote:
> GTZ Subscribers will now trade and 10x the speed!
This was Bill's plan all along, Sub prices will go up 1000%
SirConnery
GameTZ Subscriber 1000 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#23)
With the virtual market add-on subscriber perk, you can view your Billcoin coin wallet using your VR goggles!
Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#24)
billfold will replace wallet when billcoin takes over

Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#25)
coincidentally posted at 9:11 pm

KCPenguins
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#26)
Sam wrote:
> Hopefully this will knock some trump voters off fb who don't wanna pay up...
>


Didn't knock you off here... so..
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews
14-Dec(#27)
Congress can block this with a simple majority. Lets hope they are so inundated with hateful constituents blowing them up they overturn this on a big way.

Some stats I've seen have up to 83% of Americans opposed to this regardless of political leaning...the other 13% probably don't realize it's about to screw them.

For us.. many of us are multiple console players.. Sony swoops in on your provider...suddenly xbl is crap, or vice versa

Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#28)
KCPenguins wrote:
> Sam wrote:
>> Hopefully this will knock some trump voters off fb who don't wanna pay up...
>>
>
>
> Didn't knock you off here... so..

Well it hasn't happened yet so keep holding your breath........................................................................................and then subscribe to the site with billcoin so you don't get knocked off too

KCPenguins
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#29)
Sam wrote:
> KCPenguins wrote:
>> Sam wrote:
> |>> Hopefully this will knock some trump voters off fb who don't wanna pay up...
> |>>
>>
>>
>> Didn't knock you off here... so..
>
> Well it hasn't happened yet so keep holding your breath........................................................................................and
> then subscribe to the site with billcoin so you don't get knocked off too
>
>


I don't have to worry as I don't renege on my trades.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#30)
If this isn't rejected we'll see an era of mergers unlike anything we've ever seen. Under the table deals with Verizon and whomever else getting into bed with the websites we all use the most and at that point It will literally cost us money to scratch our balls.
Sam
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Has Written 5 Reviews
14-Dec(#31)
KCPenguins wrote:
> I don't have to worry as I don't renege on my trades.

You must be mistaken. I don't renege on my trades, I reNuge on my trades, brother!!!

image



theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 14-Dec(#32)
Considering ISPs like Comcast own the utility poles in a lot of locations, this is potentially going to allow for the monopolization of whole towns.

Already states rejecting it and suing over it. This won't last.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#33)
Good step. Internet was fine up until 2015. Get the government out of the internet.
six
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#34)
I hope your joking........
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#35)
Of course not. The collective freak out over this is beyond ridiculous.

I think both sides have reasonable arguments in the debate. I can see both sides. But to act like this will somehow end the internet as we know it is absurd.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#36)
The internet was fine up until 2015. The internet has been fine since 2015. I don't know what to think.
sa330206
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#37)
Scots wrote:
> Good step. Internet was fine up until 2015. Get the government out of the internet.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/net-neutrality-vio...

Open your eyes
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#38)
Exactly. So why throw a bunch more control the government's way? Require transparency and let the government play referee.
sa330206
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#39)
It's no coincidence the head of the FCC used to work for Verizon. It's all about the money for large ISPs (look up how much they have spent to lobby for this repeal). I agree the repeal of NN won't kill the internet but it is a foolish move and bad for the consumer. Your bills will go up and in theory ISPs can straight up block news or websites they don't want you to see. I don't see the plus side to this decision unless you are part of an ISP.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Dec(#40)
sa330206 wrote:
> Scots wrote:
>> Good step. Internet was fine up until 2015. Get the government out of the internet.
>
>
> Open your eyes

My eyes are very open. You just proved my point with that article.

The article you posted lists a bunch of scenarios. What do they all have in common? In each situation, the company either paid a big settlement, was fined for malpractice, or reversed their action based on public uproar or advocacy groups calling them out. This is called the market working!

Are you guys really all for the government taking over control of everything? Ensure transparency. I prefer the government play referee when needed, not boss people around to begin with.
sa330206
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#41)
Scots wrote:
> sa330206 wrote:
>> Scots wrote:
> |>> Good step. Internet was fine up until 2015. Get the government out of the internet.
>>
>>
>> Open your eyes
>
> My eyes are very open. You just proved my point with that article.
>
> The article you posted lists a bunch of scenarios. What do they all have in common?
> In each situation, the company either paid a big settlement, was fined for malpractice,
> or reversed their action based on public uproar or advocacy groups calling them out.
> This is called the market working!
>
> Are you guys really all for the government taking over control of everything? Ensure
> transparency and the market will police itself.
>
> I prefer the government play referee when needed, not boss people around to begin
> with.

No..these companies paid up due to the open internet rules that have since been removed. Do you really think a small rural ISP is going to provide fair pricing when they are the only game in town? In 2017 internet is a public utility and needs regulated. What if they removed all regulations on your power company? Your bill could go up to $500/month and there's nothing you could do about it.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Dec(#42)
Do you think that if the government stamps and regulates everything, we're going to have any innovation or competition?
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#43)
Again, I really do believe it's an interesting debate and there are good points to be made on both sides.
sa330206
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Dec(#44)
I think it's a valid point but in many areas there is no competition (think windstream servicing a rural area). In some cases where you have many ISP options this could work. In my case I only have one ISP who services my area.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#45)
Does it give anyone pause that big corporations are all big supporters or net neutrality?
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
14-Dec(#46)
Scots wrote:
> Does it give anyone pause that big corporations are all big supporters or net neutrality?

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/comcas...

Right.
atlantafalcon
Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#47)
RIP
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Dec(#48)
I know that Steven Crowder is a "loud mouthed right winger" etc. etc. but he did a video on this and I thought it was one of his well reasoned ones. He concedes there are good arguments on both sides but my view on this actually lines up pretty closely to his.

If you have 10 minutes, it's worth a watch regardless of what you think about it.

https://youtu.be/G35g5HQVjpU
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 15-Dec(#49)
That's all Obama rule did. Basically said we've looked into your eyes, it's pure evil we know what you'll do if left to operate according to your own devices and were going to safeguard against that. That's what a referee does. I'd agree that historically the private sector is more reliable than government. However it's naive of you or anyone not to pay credence to the fact that over the last twenty years it's a variable tie for who screwed the hard working people of America more corporate interests (specifically conglomerates, not local buy incorporated small businesses) or our government from both sides the isle.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews
15-Dec(#50)
Tens of millions of Americans live in areas where there is one option for internet service. We have one company and that's it. If this creates tiers, limits, throttling.. it's gonna hurt a lot of people. If it starts costing the Netflix and hulu's out there more that cost is getting passed to us for sure.

Prime
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#51)
tonymack21 wrote:
> Tens of millions of Americans live in areas where there is one option for internet
> service. We have one company and that's it. If this creates tiers, limits, throttling..
> it's gonna hurt a lot of people. If it starts costing the Netflix and hulu's out
> there more that cost is getting passed to us for sure.
>
>

That cost won't be passed to them. They'll just get in bed with service lords and still hand us a higher bill just because they can. Capitalism at its finest moment on a shining hill. Where of course our founding fathers beloved that both the government and the private business sector have a larger role in creating policy than the voice of the starving proletariat desperate to work but finding themselves in hands corporate warlords who prefer to make money speculating instead building anything, other than their empires which are built with our sweat our blood and the tears of children whom they sacrifice for a Little Extra bulge in thier Hampton house portfolio.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Dec(#52)
It's senseless to back this move regardless to your political alignment. 3-out-of-4 Republicans, and 83% of Americans in general opposed this. If you're happy to be monopolized by big corporations, cool, but this is the death of freedom of information. (I mean until it's rejected).

The whole "the internet wasn't broken in 2015" garbage is such a cop out argument. No one's talking about how "broken" the internet was, it's about protecting the right to seek out information when and how you want. It's about not giving any media corporation the opportunity to dictate what information you're allowed to access. This repeal does that.

It'll start as blacking out competitors' websites, but where will it end? When will the FCC under Pai decide to pass regulations to the ISPs in order to censor outlets critical of Trump and his administration? Then what happens when those ISPs claim the utility poles they own and begin dictating the information that's allowed to come in and leave entire towns? You wanna talk about "fake news", wait until that's all there is.

Again, this won't stick, but defending this move is defending the attempted murder of freedom of opinion.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#53)
theJaw wrote:

> Again, this won't stick, but defending this move is defending the attempted murder
> of freedom of opinion.

Sensationalism at its finest.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Dec(#54)
It's a step in that direction for certain. I just outlined the very possible ways information could be withheld from conumers and thus would have an affect on people's opinions moving forward. Again, if you're fine with it, that's your prerogative but you're on the wrong side of history. Trump controls the FCC, the FCC dictate regulations for ISPs, the ISPs deliver information to the masses. It's the first step toward an authoritarian US government in the internet age. You can keep pretending Trump and Pai aren't just towing party lines and have everyone's best interest in mind but most won't remain that naive.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 15-Dec(#55)
Totally disagree. I think that's over the top. Again, it's fine we all disagree.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Dec(#56)
We will see sir. Hope you're right.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 15-Dec(#57)
Scots wrote:
> Does it give anyone pause that big corporations are all big supporters or net neutrality?

The fact that you're the second or third Trump backer in the past 24 hours to say this almost verbatim certainly does. Of course smart companies are all about Net Neutrality, this stance benefits them twofold: One, popular support helps enhance their product and service value in the eyes of those who agree with them, and two, they know with NN gone and ISPs being GIVEN the OPTION to charge premiums for "prioritized" (or normalized) treatment of their data and services (such as Netflix), these ISPs will absolutely go to town on their bank accounts just as hard as they can get away with.

Can't you guys admit Trump appointed a fudge-up groomed by Verizon to do this one thing that'll make ISPs billions that US consumers can't stand? If it's such a NOT big deal, why do they want Net Neutrality gone?

When Verizon started throttling Netflix traffic unless they paid premium and the FCC intervened thanks to Net Neutrality, where was your stance there? That Verizon SHOULD be charging different companies different money to get normalized service? This "innovation" and "product creation" they're talking about is literally "We want to give ISPs the ability to charge premiums and "create products" for things they currently are forced to treat equally to every other bit of traffic they serve up".

I seriously cannot believe so many Trump supporters got played so hard on this. Have you EVER seen a company like Comcast say "You don't have to watch us, man, we'll be good to you. Trust us." in the history of history and believed them? Literally a company that's won "Worst Company of the Year" multiple times?

But hey, we're all in this together. Once you start getting nickle and dime fudgeed by your provider that holds an effective monopoly on service in your area, you'll feel like you have some skin in the game here. Ajit Pai is a fudging shill for data providers, and you're ignoring all the evidence. And yesterday was his big payday. Woo.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews
15-Dec(#58)
Apparently if this holds rhe federal trade comission will become the regulatory body?

DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
15-Dec(#59)
And they've already said they don't know how to handle these sorts of issues. Basically Ajit Pai said "Don't worry, Billy can watch the kids while they grow up," and left, Billy being legally retarded.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#60)
First, I'm not a Trump supporter. I say a lot facetiously, but I've been clear since the start he's a buffoon.

Second, I'm not saying nobody should watch the ISPs. I'm for full transparency laws. In the Verizon/Netflix example, they didn't get caught and make sure it stopped "because of net neutrality." That's totally disingenuous, IMO. They got caught and stopped it because we have a lot of watch dogs (in a good way) who will find these things, and make sure they are exposed.

Fair points on both sides, but I just think the narrative on this has gone so off the rails.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 15-Dec(#61)
Scots wrote:
> Second, I'm not saying nobody should watch the ISPs. I'm for full transparency laws.
> In the Verizon/Netflix example, they didn't get caught and make sure it stopped "because
> of net neutrality." That's totally disingenuous, IMO. They got caught and stopped
> it because we have a lot of watch dogs (in a good way) who will find these things,
> and make sure they are exposed.

Net neutrality was the only reason why what they were doing was illegal and was stopped. They explained it away embarrassedly, stopped doing it and the FCC didn't have to come in and fine them for being royal fudge-ups, they were probably just seeing if they could get away with it or if it was theoretically possible to implement.

Now that behavior is fine. Now all they have to do is either announce their throttling publicly (To better serve the vast majority of our customers and keep the speeds they expect and deserve from us, masturbatory details) OR just set a new standard of transmission rates and start charging for "prioritized" traffic. New VoIP start-up? Pay now to get "Fast Lane" access or, you know, stay clumped up with the rest of the people not on toll roads. Oh, you don't want to do VoIP anymore because you can't afford reasonable latency and packet priority? Huh! Well, okay buddy! The big guys seem to think the toll roads are just fine!

I 100% want to be wrong about this. But I don't trust our ISPs because they give me zero reason to trust them. Which is why I wanted them regulated. I don't believe in the honor system, not with this much money on the line. Not with something this important. They've already taken away choices. Comcast pisses me off, that's tough crap for me, AT&T hasn't laid down fiber yet at my new place so my only other options are Hughesnet (crapty quality satellite internet) or 20 meg AT&T, 3-5 times slower than Comcast.

So I had to go with AT&T 20 meg after I moved. Pretty sweet huh?
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 15-Dec(#62)
I would disagree that net neutrality was the reason they stopped. If et neutrality was in place, do you honestly believe that when then story broke, they would have said "Well it's legal so tough luck!"? That would have been a horrible business decision.

I totally understand the logic behind the hypothetical scenarios you're proposing might happen. I really do. I just don't think they make sense from a practical or business perspective.

I don't believe in the honor system either. That's why we have transparency laws. We have tons of smart people who are always watching this stuff. Companies got caught in the same way that Verizon did for years before net neutrality was implemented, and gave excuses and walked back decisions just the same.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#63)
In the end, I think we all mostly agree that the ISP's should be held accountable, watched, and called out. IMO this is largely a second level disagreement on the method by which that should be done.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 15-Dec(#64)
The point being, many of these carriers have effective monopolies in the markets they service, which was by design. If they do crapty business practices that piss me off, like throttling Netflix, I have no recourse because there is no equivalent or greater service being offered here, which is a common occurrence.

Yes, I can get on the Internet and dog on Twitter (Hopefully!) but at the end of the day, my options are pay more for less service with Hughesnet, or pay less for less service with AT&T. That's not theoretical or hypothetical, that's my reality. When they're the "best" show in town and there's literally zero competition, what's Comcast's impetus to behave?
sa330206
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
15-Dec(#65)
I hate the argument that "net neutrality has only been around since 2015 and we were fine before." While true the formal net neutrality we know today has only been around a few years..there has been fair internet framework around long before 2015. There are many cases of carriers blocking p2p,voip,etc and the FCC has to step in. Why should we have to launch a big investigation and lengthy court battle every time an ISP pushes the boundary? Just set the ground rules up front before they can start ripping everyone off.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#66)
Why is this so different for internet service than for every other commodity in the US?

I understand the primary argument for net neutrality to be around fairness and equality for the consumer. But by replacing a marketplace that encourages competition and innovation, net neutrally essentially means that who gets what will pretty much be decided by politics. That doesn't seem positive to me at all.

A market for a product is typically driven by demand from those who want or need the products most. Prices often go up with demand. And some people are able to pay more for a service or product than others. So, businesses create more options to cater to all levels. That's why we have the $10 coffee at Starbucks and the $1 cup on the street. The offering and transactions of the former don't interfere with the latter. Our economy works this way in pretty much every sector - electronics, food, cars...

So when we see an ISP making a deal with Netflix where Netflix will use a fast lane that they pay for as a massive data user, I say that's great. I think this will actually create a lot of room for innovation and growth that will increase speeds and capabilities. AT&T became a monopoly back in the day because of some of the same principles of net neutrality, and they didn't innovate at all, because there was no reason or way to. More options and levels for customers to get involved is exactly what broke us out of that.
six
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 15-Dec(#67)
I understand that the innovating part but I honestly don't trust these companies. I am stuck with AT&T if they do some shady charging I'm screwed it's either att or go off the grid.
Jeff
GameTZ Subscriber 450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
15-Dec(#68)
This is OUTRAGEOUS! Unbelievable.... You know what, I


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DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
15-Dec(#69)
youllbejustfine
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
* 15-Dec(#70)
Scots wrote:
> Why is this so different for internet service than for every other commodity in the
> US?
>
> I understand the primary argument for net neutrality to be around fairness and equality
> for the consumer. But by replacing a marketplace that encourages competition and
> innovation, net neutrally essentially means that who gets what will pretty much be
> decided by politics. That doesn't seem positive to me at all.
>
> A market for a product is typically driven by demand from those who want or need
> the products most. Prices often go up with demand. And some people are able to pay
> more for a service or product than others. So, businesses create more options to
> cater to all levels. That's why we have the $10 coffee at Starbucks and the $1 cup
> on the street. The offering and transactions of the former don't interfere with the
> latter. Our economy works this way in pretty much every sector - electronics, food,
> cars...
>
> So when we see an ISP making a deal with Netflix where Netflix will use a fast lane
> that they pay for as a massive data user, I say that's great. I think this will actually
> create a lot of room for innovation and growth that will increase speeds and capabilities.
> AT&T became a monopoly back in the day because of some of the same principles of
> net neutrality, and they didn't innovate at all, because there was no reason or way
> to. More options and levels for customers to get involved is exactly what broke us
> out of that.

Scots- the issue here is that the ISP's have a near monopoly on owning the infrastucture. So when the AT&T/Comcast/Verizon decide they want to throttle and sectorize the network, there is no other option for independent ISP's, because there is no other route. And because of this, there is no incentive for the large networks to offer a "discount" plan, because the competition all need to buy into the base fee to use the lines.

Think of it this way: every bridge out of your city is owned by the Bridge Corporation. The Bridge Corp decides you need to pay a toll to cross their bridges. Now you're paying everytime you need to leave the city, and it doesn't matter if you drive, take the bus, a cab, whatever. They're all paying to get across those bridges, and passing the buck on to you.
youllbejustfine
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
15-Dec(#71)
Oh ya, and PRO TIP: Corporations are not your friend. They do not have your best interests at heart.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#72)
youllbejustfine wrote:
> Oh ya, and PRO TIP: Corporations are not your friend. They do not have your best
> interests at heart.

Couldn't agree more.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
15-Dec(#73)
Tell you what, thread. I'll drink the Kool-aid.

I'm gonna assume the best. We'll see what happens to the Internet in the next couple years. I'll even publicly take a Hide 'n Watch stance.
sinnie
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Dec(#74)
Soon the internet will be a myth. Everyone will revert back to landlines and VHS.

Uppercat
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (36 seconds ago)
15-Dec(#75)
When will Americans realize that the only way to get these rich butt-holes to pay attention is with violence?
DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 15-Dec(#76)
If they dig up all the copper and lay down fiber. IF we don't start seeing "best effort" normal-ass internet packets fall off the face of the Earth, this could work out.

If they aren't gigantic butt-holes as they seem wont to be.
theyrhere
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 2 Reviews
15-Dec(#77)
I didn't want to live in the city of Lafayette near me, but internet is a utility there. It just got a lot more attractive
youllbejustfine
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
15-Dec(#78)
Uppercat wrote:
> When will Americans realize that the only way to get these rich butt-holes to pay attention
> is with violence?

What would it take for Americans to actually revolt? All basic human rights to be violated and removed? The signs are all telling that there's a recession looming... I am terrified to see how deep the markets can crash with a gov't that only cares about padding their own pockets.
SilverOwl
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader
15-Dec(#79)
The people who think that this will actually bring in competition is just fooling themselves.
Do u really think the big corporations are going to let too many start up ISP services take away money and business from them? I doubt it, that's why they spent millions getting net neutrality repealed, so they can make even more money.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
15-Dec(#80)
youllbejustfine wrote:
> Uppercat wrote:
>> When will Americans realize that the only way to get these rich butt-holes to pay
> attention
>> is with violence?
>
> What would it take for Americans to actually revolt? All basic human rights to be
> violated and removed? The signs are all telling that there's a recession looming...
> I am terrified to see how deep the markets can crash with a gov't that only cares
> about padding their own pockets.

Seems a bit over the top to me. In a fudgeed up way, they're cutting taxes, they're deregulating heavily (removing money from their pockets)... So far we've seen a lot of fiscally conservative activities (that only tangentially benefits Trump and his benefactors). The market hasn't folded in on itself, though Wall Street strength's certainly not telling of the general American well-being, to be clear, but I can't look at much going on and say "Man we're fudgeed". We're not. So far it looks very much like life will go on for the next three years.

Topic   They done did it Net Neutrality is dead.