Politics

Topic   Would we have felt the Bern?

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#1)
a pointless exercise, but i been thinking about if Bern was the guy.
It would seem likely he'd get hilly voters, unless they just stayed home.
I think he take votes from Stein and Johnson.

Would those Trump voters who held their noses and just hated Hilly been able the get past the whole socialist thing with Bern?

Alternate universe.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Nov(#2)
I don't think Trump voters would have voted Bernie. People hated Hillary but if they would have focused more on his policies I think they REALLY would have hated him. Hillary seemed to be more centrist similar to Obama.
lpeters82
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#3)
I would have been more hesitant to vote for Bernie. As stated above I though Hillary was the more central candidate.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
3-Nov(#4)
Bernie would have won.

Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Nov(#5)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> Bernie would have won.
>
>

Disagree. Surprise!
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago) Secret Santa
3-Nov(#6)
i dont think so, i am not sure THAT many people actually voted trump just to not vote hillary, id think more likely they abstained? though there def were a good number of moderates who chose him over her, ive voted on both sides of the card in my lifetime and identify as a moderate and def chose him over her.

he and his campaign def made a mistake in picking socialism as a term, and if they didnt pick it themselves, they didnt do enough to come out and say no thats not what we are.

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 3-Nov(#7)
lpeters82 wrote:
> I would have been more hesitant to vote for Bernie. As stated above I though Hillary
> was the more central candidate.


thanks for the response, if it had been Bern, would you have voted for another candidate or left the prez part of the ballot unfilled?

thanks again
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
3-Nov(#8)
tonymack21 wrote:
> i dont think so, i am not sure THAT many people actually voted trump just to not
> vote hillary, id think more likely they abstained? though there def were a good number
> of moderates who chose him over her, ive voted on both sides of the card in my lifetime
> and identify as a moderate and def chose him over her.
>
> he and his campaign def made a mistake in picking socialism as a term, and if they
> didnt pick it themselves, they didnt do enough to come out and say no thats not what
> we are.
>
>


We tried explaining the difference between "Socialism" and Bernie's "Democratic Socialism", but nobody cared. Right wing media and the know-it-all's who were convinced Bernie was Stalin had no will to converse. Socialism was a trigger word that turned brains and/or ears off.


Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 3-Nov(#9)
Considering dems won the popular vote and Bernie had appeal in the Midwest it would have been interesting.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Nov(#10)
$15 minimum wage FTW!
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
* 3-Nov(#11)
The people that wanted Bernie and didnt get him didnt go to the polls or voted Stein or Johnson. They are partly to blame if they are doging about Trump. They dont like to admit it and of course it is their right to nor vote for someone they dont want but their through away votes helped Trump get in some places.

Had Bernie been nominated he would have won. I agree. He was on fire. Comepletely on fire and would have won over some folks on the right. Plus the dudes gun policies make fudging sense. However, he was a dreamer. He would not be effective as an I with a R run Washington and the establishment D's bickering. He would pass less policy than the current dipcrap. The country isnt ready for a president like him anyhow.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#12)
it is fun to speculate on a process involving Bern, Mitch, Paul and other senior players in the majority party!
lpeters82
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 3-Nov(#13)
Osiris wrote:
> lpeters82 wrote:
>> I would have been more hesitant to vote for Bernie. As stated above I though
> Hillary
>> was the more central candidate.
>
>
> thanks for the response, if it had been Bern, would you have voted for another candidate
> or left the prez part of the ballot unfilled?
>
> thanks again

So, I'm going to contradict myself. I would have voted Bernie over Trump, despite Trump being far more central. Even when he wasn't running for president I found Trump to be a vindictive-narcissist. Since becoming president my opinion hasn't changed.

PS: Having said that, I would have feared the economic effects of many of Bernie's agenda policies. I don't think he would have been successful either. I'm quite sure we'd simply have an obstructionist congress blocking anything that wasn't an executive order. I'm partially okay with that. I don't think we have it as bad as some on both sides of the isle like to make it seem. I just really didn't want anyone that was going to shake things up too much.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 3-Nov(#14)
Imho.
If you grew up watching Trump it's really difficult to understand the presidency.
lpeters82
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#15)
I honestly thought he was playing a characterized version of himself. I was disappointed to learn that wasn't true.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
4-Nov(#16)
Feeb wrote:
> Imho.
> If you grew up watching Trump it's really difficult to understand the presidency.
>

OK, baby, let's hear it, you can't keep us hanging.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
4-Nov(#17)
I agree incremental change is better than dramatic change in a mature democracy, but about two of Bern's issues:

-We were not going to have gov't paid tuition and fees at public U's, but I was hopeful there was some way to eliminate college genEd requirements and just spend 2 years on the thing you went to college or tech school for. Save some serious education dollars.

-No, we were not going to have Medicare for all, but I think Bern would have helped strenghthen a public/private healthcare product,with folks having the abilitiy to buiy-in to medicare at their own expense if they could not find something suitable on the exchanges.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
4-Nov(#18)
Osiris wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>> Imho.
>> If you grew up watching Trump it's really difficult to understand the presidency.
>>
>
> OK, baby, let's hear it, you can't keep us hanging.

My favorite was the time he took his girlfriend skiing... with his wife. Good times.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago) Secret Santa
* 4-Nov(#19)
See I'm the opposite. I understand it completely. When he said he was gonna do it I said he will win, and when he announced officially I called almost everything that happened. I knew America was ready for another Reagan in the way of someone not being a career politician. Though at that level of business I could see how it could be compared in some ways.

Maybe it is just because I'm from a big pro trump area and work for a defense contractor so everyone wanted a republican president and was ready for one, who knows. I just knew he was gonna win and win big, electoral vote wise. I figured pop would be split and close as it has been before in my lifetime. Al Gore won the popular too. But that's why we have an EC.

dracula
Triple Gold Good Trader Has Written 7 Reviews
7-Nov(#20)
Bernie had some interesting/out of touch ideas that would have made it really difficult for him to become president:

1) people should not have to pay for college

If the students aren't going to pay tuition, how on earth are the professors, staff, and other workers going to get paid, tax payers are supposed to foot the bill?!?!

2) people should not have to pay for health care, it should be paid for by the government.

Multiply that same problem from 1 and try to figure out how we are going to pay the doctors, nurses, and other staff in every hospital in the country...

3) openly communist

this would have been beat to death

4) did not have the financial backing that Hillary had
not only that, the DNC was actively sabotaging him

5)had a much better personality and his supporters had emotion
would this be enough to overcome the other 4 obstacles? It seems unlikely
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#21)
Except 1-2 are already working in countries that claim the highest standards of living.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
7-Nov(#22)
Karaiya wrote:
> The people that wanted Bernie and didnt get him didnt go to the polls or voted Stein
> or Johnson. They are partly to blame if they are doging about Trump. They dont
> like to admit it and of course it is their right to nor vote for someone they dont
> want but their through away votes helped Trump get in some places.
>
> Had Bernie been nominated he would have won. I agree. He was on fire. Comepletely
> on fire and would have won over some folks on the right. Plus the dudes gun policies
> make fudging sense. However, he was a dreamer. He would not be effective as an
> I with a R run Washington and the establishment D's bickering. He would pass less
> policy than the current dipcrap. The country isnt ready for a president like him
> anyhow.

Well I didn't vote Hillary. I wrote in Bernie for President and wrote myself in as his Vice President. But I lived in New York so I was smart enough not to risk my vote helping Trump win. But those Bernie voters who abstained or voted Green in swing states f*cked all of us.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#23)
yankees7448 wrote:
> But those Bernie voters who abstained or voted Green in swing
> states f*cked all of us.

Not all of us smiley:::smile
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
* 7-Nov(#24)
dracula wrote:
>
> 2) people should not have to pay for health care, it should be paid for by the government.
>
>
> Multiply that same problem from 1 and try to figure out how we are going to pay the
> doctors, nurses, and other staff in every hospital in the country...

I don't agree. Look at how much Americans are already paying for private insurance. Its outrageous. With a government run system all you are doing is taking the money that is currently being on private care and putting it towards the government run system. The big difference is that instead of calling those payments deductibles, premiums or co-pays you're calling it a tax.

> 3) openly communist

He was not openly communist.



In any case, I do agree with you on the free college thing. I don't think college the government should make college free unless its under certain conditions. If you're an excellent student but can't afford an education then there should be merit/need based scholarships. I don't see a problem with expanding that. I think it would be awesome if the government paid the educational costs of career fields that are high need. The country needs more teachers especially in Science and Math. The country needs more Primary care physicians. There are jobs that require technical skills that are going unfilled because Americans don't have the training. Let the government pay for them if doing so will help encourage Americans to get into those fields. But paying for some schmuck to go to Cornell to get a Bachelor's in Renaissance poetry or Theater (like my cousin)... F*ck that. Pay for it yourself. Or in the case of my cousin, let your mom pay for it.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago) Secret Santa
* 7-Nov(#25)
doing away with the corruption of the university system and its ties to the private sector and bringing back trade and vocational/vo-tech schools would help the education system in America too. there is too much money to be made for universities in these outrageous tuitions. they say hey private sector, why don't you "require" our degrees so people will have to come here, and in return there has to be some kickback, they have to be getting something out of it somewhere. when I was kid ads for vo-tech schools and technical schools and training for a trade was everywhere, now you never see those things. there are millions of tradesmen needed all over the country but the last couple of generations hasn't been taught that you can be successful in these fields. Mike Rowe (#Rowe2024) has been a very vocal advocate of this and is trying to bring awareness to it.

yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
* 7-Nov(#26)
Osiris wrote:
> a pointless exercise, but i been thinking about if Bern was the guy.
> It would seem likely he'd get hilly voters, unless they just stayed home.
> I think he take votes from Stein and Johnson.
>
> Would those Trump voters who held their noses and just hated Hilly been able the
> get past the whole socialist thing with Bern?
>
> Alternate universe.

I think Bernie would have won but it depend upon the answer to some questions.

1. Would the female Hillary supporters have pulled that same P.U.M.A bull$hit they pulled with Obama if they failed to get a woman nominated again?

I think it would depend. Some woman would have been as obstinate about it as many Bernie voters were towards Hillary. A lot of bridges were burned in that primary. However, once Hillary won she didn't do much at all to win Bernie voters over. She basically said, its either me or Trump. You could see that in her sleep inducing choice for VP. Would Bernie have tried something different? If Bernie nominated a female Vice Presidential candidate like Tulsi Gabbard would their bitterness have been mollified enough to support his ticket.

2. How much of Jill Stein's votes were actually Bernie voters who were protesting against Clinton. Anyone who followed the Democratic primary drama closely could see how desperately Jill Stein attempted to swim in Bernie's wake. Her blatant attempt to absorb his supporters was in my opinion disgusting. This is important because according to Politico Trump beat Clinton in Michigan 2,279,805 votes to 2,268,193 votes. The difference between the two was a mere 11,612 votes. Jill Stein pulled in a little more than 50k votes in Michigan. Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin 1,409,467 votes to 1,382,210 votes for a difference of 27,357 votes. Over 30k voted for Jill Stein in that state. These are two states that Bernie crushed Hillary in during the primaries and those two states alone would have swung 26 EC votes from Red to Blue.

3. Did those Bernie voters who chose not to vote at all do so in large enough numbers in some states to overcome beligerant pro-Clinton voters? If so, would they have been enough to turn the tide in Pennsylvania. Trump beat Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania 2,912,941 votes to 2,844,705 votes. That's less than 70k votes in a state that has a f*ck ton of electoral college votes. And it wouldn't have taken much. If you assume the majority of Jill Stein's votes were Bernie protest voters (as I alluded to in #2) he would have grabbed the lions share of her almost 49 thousand votes in Pennsylvania. It wouldn't have taken much more to flip the state to the Democrats.

4. Would nominating Bernie instead of Hillary have caused a decrease in Republican voter enthusiasm? Personally, I think Republican hatred of Hillary Clinton was much stronger than their hatred of Bernie. They disagreed strongly on many of Sanders policies but they hated Hillary with a passion. They wanted to destroy her. How would a Bernie nomination have affected these Republican voters? This is especially important considering Trump would have had a much harder time arguing he was the populist champion if he was fighting Bernie instead of the elitist Hillary Clinton. Also, would Bernie have risk rekindling the anger of the Republican base by nominating someone like Hillary or Elizabeth Warren as VP to in an effort to win back Clinton voters?
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#27)
Universities make their money off of talent. Sports and grants. One of my advisors explained that the admission process was rigorous at my school because they actually lose money on students who don't succeed. That was especially true in professional school. Most schools are also part of state university systems. They get lots of operating dollars from alumni donations.

If you've ever spent time on a large southern university then you know most of the political crap out there is noise. When I was in school you could find whatever you looked for and the only time I ever felt itritated with free speech was when a dude with a giant cross was screaming at all of us in the student center about burning in hell. Most everything is voluntary. If you're concerned with the teaching of hard science as fact etc that's another thing. They have bible schools for that.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago)
* 7-Nov(#28)
Dustin wrote:
> yankees7448 wrote:
>> But those Bernie voters who abstained or voted Green in swing
>> states f*cked all of us.
>
> Not all of us smiley:::smile

They sure did. If you don't think that Mike Pence and his extreme right wing idiologies are running this country and putting policies in place that will fudge you up, you sir will soon direct and Star in your own new nightmare. I watched the hearings. Trump isn't a savvy enough anything let alone politician to try and sneak defining a human life into the tax code under a false guise of a collegiate education trust. You may love some of this bullcrap on the surface but I can assure you that 5, 10, 15 years down the line this President and his band of unmerry men will institute and attempt to put policies into play that will indeed fudge you. You and people of your ilk are just too busy enjoying *the cool aid to know that it's laced with poison.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#29)
Cool story
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago)
7-Nov(#30)
Dustin wrote:
> True story

Fixed that for ya
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#31)
Fudge, I know I shouldn't engage......

Care to share what policies will "fudge me" in the future?

Should we also talk about policies that would have likely fudgeed me had the opposition won? Or the policies implemented over the last 8 years that are already fudging me? Don't leave those details out.

Damnit....
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#32)
Policy is not fudging you. If you're fudgeed or in danger of being so you've probably made some poor life decisions or we're born impoverished.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
7-Nov(#33)
Feeb wrote:
> we're born impoverished.

Awww nice buddy. Me and you, besties!
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago)
* 7-Nov(#34)
Feeb wrote:
> we're born impoverished.
@Dustin
Leave it to a Trump voter to completely ignore poor grammar. Were relates to time, specifically to the past. We're is a conjunction connecting the words we And are into one conjuncted word.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Nov(#35)
Prime wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>> we're born impoverished.
> @Dustin
> Leave it to a Trump voter to completely ignore poor grammar. Were relates to time,
> specifically to the past. We're is a conjunction connecting the words we And are
> into one conjuncted word.

Well see, the thing is, you're wrong. I didn't ignore poor grammar, I pointed it out. By pointing it out, and using it correctly in my quoted reply, you should have got the hint that I DO know the difference between were and we're. Your pomposity clouded your common sense there chief. In reality though I'm assuming he posted that from his phone and it autocorrected to we're. yes
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago)
8-Nov(#36)
Trump has made you very great. You're big league in a bigly way. Huge, huge, tremendous guy.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Nov(#37)
Nah. Sociopaths talk about themselves in the first person.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Nov(#38)
Prime wrote:
> Trump has made you very great. You're big league in a bigly way. Huge, huge, tremendous
> guy.

{imgt}https://media1.tenor.com/images/55e8d485b021e7289c... 480 494{imgt}
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Nov(#39)
Prime wrote:
> Trump has made you very great. You're big league in a bigly way. Huge, huge, tremendous
> guy.

Thanks buddy
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago)
8-Nov(#40)
I'm getting my butt kicked. I missed Dustin's subtle correction. Then went full HAMMER hard charging hard on with the full court pomp and got schooled again. I'm way off my game. Maybe I'll just sit in the corner.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Nov(#41)
Prime wrote:
> I'm getting my butt kicked. I missed Dustin's subtle correction. Then went full HAMMER
> hard charging hard on with the full court pomp and got schooled again. I'm way off
> my game. Maybe I'll just sit in the corner.

It's cool. I still love you.
Prime
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (4 minutes ago)
8-Nov(#42)
Suck a trump popsicle @Dustin!
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Nov(#43)
Mmmmmm, orange. My favorite

Topic   Would we have felt the Bern?