Politics

Topic   guess who said it

Osiris
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* 4-Dec-2017(#1)
"Well, when the president does it, that means it is not illegal."

words to live by...
Feeb
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* 4-Dec-2017(#2)
I find it astounding. Anyone who took a high school level government glass understands that the president is not above the law by any definition. In politics you tell people what they want to hear; if they don't know better they will believe it.
longhornsk57
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4-Dec-2017(#3)
As far as what Nixon did (where that comes from), that is true.

This definitely does not apply to Trump tweeting being called "obstruction" though, if that is the intended inference.
Feeb
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4-Dec-2017(#4)
Yeah not in anyway. Just that the attorney's balls on thinking he can fleece Americans with misinformation. Where did he get that idea?
longhornsk57
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* 4-Dec-2017(#5)
Feeb wrote:
> Yeah not in anyway. Just that the attorney's balls on thinking he can fleece Americans
> with misinformation. Where did he get that idea?

what are you specifically referring to?

Can the commander in chief even obstruct justice by tweeting about an investigation? That's a legit question. Equating that to Nixon is definitely a straw man argument.
Feeb
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* 4-Dec-2017(#6)
No. He implied in a blanket sense that the President is above the law.

The context can be completely ignored or you can replace trump with Obama etc.
longhornsk57
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4-Dec-2017(#7)
Feeb wrote:
> No. He implied in a blanket sense that the President is above the law.
>
> The context can be completely ignored or you can replace trump with Obama etc.

What exactly did he say?
Feeb
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4-Dec-2017(#8)
The "President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case,"

longhornsk57
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4-Dec-2017(#9)
Feeb wrote:
> The "President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer
> under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of
> any case,"
>
>

Yeah I don't equate that with Nixon, but I agree that's too broadly worded. They should have stuck with him being able to have an opinion. I don't want any president acting above the law.

I don't think Trump is, literally all he's doing is tweeting, but him obstructing justice is so laughable they shouldn't have said anything.
Feeb
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4-Dec-2017(#10)
I agree 100%. This is the same guy who said he tweeted that Trump fired Flynn because he knew he lied. As trump.

He should be canned. And I'd pin every tweet on him that is harmful.
longhornsk57
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4-Dec-2017(#11)
Yeah I'd probably fire that dude.
Osiris
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* 4-Dec-2017(#12)
the point is that trump knew Flynn lied to FBI earlier (wonder how trump knew,
and why Flynn try to cover up a Logan act transgression) then the next day told Comey he wanted the FBI to let Flynn pass. Reports were the trump made the same request to DNI Coats and NSA chief Mike Rogers, but not corroborated by them publicly in hearings.

These acts and others form the basis for obstruction of justice if Congress wants to pursue. Criminal proceedings would be fun, but unlikely.
longhornsk57
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4-Dec-2017(#13)
Osiris wrote:
> the point is that trump knew

Knew what?
Feeb
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4-Dec-2017(#14)
It's bad if he knew Flynn lied to the FBI. It means when he was vouching for Flynn he knew. When he fired Comey he knew. Strong evidence that he knew and desired to obstruct the investigation.
Osiris
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4-Dec-2017(#15)
im curious if congress will turn on trump if they can pass the tax bill. Depends on more Mueller specific actions.
Mueller has been quite deft at circumventing the effectiveness of prez pardons so far.
Feeb
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4-Dec-2017(#16)
Just saw that Manafort did the op-ed with Russian intelligence agent while on bail. I sense an absence of remorse.
longhornsk57
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4-Dec-2017(#17)
Feeb wrote:
> It's bad if he knew Flynn lied to the FBI. It means when he was vouching for Flynn
> he knew. When he fired Comey he knew. Strong evidence that he knew and desired to
> obstruct the investigation.

This doesn't make sense.

Is lying to the FBI even against the law? He didn't commit perjury...

How is he obstructing any investigation even if he knew?

He didn't vouch for Flynn AFAIK, he just asked comey to leave him alone since he'd already been fired for lying to Pence.

This is about trying to overturn an election, not justice.

Obama DOJ spied on the trump transition team and unmasked them illegally, hiring fusion GPS, communication (get this) with the Russians. But that's OK.

But this, this is just so terrible...


Feeb
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* 4-Dec-2017(#18)
Yes. It is illegal to lie to the FBI or any government official. He admitted that he (Flynn) lied.

His (Trump) previous tweets on Flynn defended him and denied any wrong doing. Retroactively he knew he had lied as he claims to have fired him for lying. It means he knew Flynn had communications with Russia that he denied ad nauseam. He also asked Comey not to look into Flynn and fired him supposedly for not doing as instructed. Comey documented the discussions well.

At best he is a liar. I don't think anyone denies that though.

In a criminal case with establishing character it's a big deal. His credibility is hit. If the Comey firing is related as suspected then he attempted to obstruct the Flynn case.
Feeb
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* 5-Dec-2017(#19)
The supposition is that one does not turn govt witness against the POTUS for the simple crime of lying to the FBI. They've got something on Flynn worth trading for information. The information is at least as "valuable" as his worst crime, following the story suggests he's at least acted as a foreign agent- a crime that can be taken as far as treason and death.

It's definitely intriguing. Might as well enjoy what we've paid for?
longhornsk57
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5-Dec-2017(#20)
I guess I don't really see any collusion or obstruction. And if his wordy crime is lying to the FBI then they just don't really have anything.

But yeah, let's see what we've paid for here..
SirConnery
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5-Dec-2017(#21)
Until put down Trump is above the law. A rule is only a rule if enforced.
Osiris
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* 5-Dec-2017(#22)
As investigation goes forward, it will be up to congress, can't be optimistic about that, we've never indicted a sitting president though, so congress is it.

Monday, December 4

Alabama Senate Special Election -
Moore 49, Jones 46 Moore +3

President Trump Job Approval
Gallup Approve 35, Disapprove 60 Disapprove +25

President Trump Job Approval Rasmussen Reports Approve 42, Disapprove 56 Disapprove +14

Moore ahead in most polling, should be a hoot after election.

Since it's clear a large number of Americans, if not a majority, don't think trump is doing a good job, the "witchhunt" will continue.

Topic   guess who said it