Politics

Topic   Ingsoc, Newspeak earn another victory!

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
* 16-Dec-2017(#1)
Lists of forbidden terms for cdc budget report to include "fetus," "science-based" and "evidence-based," others.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/12/16/forbidden-word...

This should alarm everyone.

Minitrue is working overtime.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 16-Dec-2017(#2)
https://www.dangerous.com/38902/cdc-forbids-politi...

What's the problem again?

"Apart from "fetus," which is a medical term, terms like "science-based" and "evidence-based" are imprecise, highly politicized terms that can refer to divisive, and even unsupported studies. A liberal can claim that a conservative using the term "science-based" is political, and vice versa. The terms are not political, but they are too often used in a political context.

The term "transgender" is commonly used to describe individuals who experience gender dysmorphia, but is lately used to refer to anyone who declares their gender identity as existing outside of the gender binary of male and female. It does not reflect a person's biological sex, and has little bearing on the scientific process."
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#3)
If "evidence-based" is politicized then some of us do not live in reality.

Always with the "liberals."

Transgender is is real thing whether we accept it or not. Just like religion.

I'm not surprised you don't see a problem.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Dec-2017(#4)
It's actually getting to the point for me where the louder the left cries, the more I expect it to be positive news. If this is your idea of '1984' we really do see the world differently.

There is a difference between objective science and politicized science. The last administration blurred that line far too much.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
* 16-Dec-2017(#5)
1984 is about this exact thing. If you didn't get that then you misunderstand what totalitarian means.

There is no difference between evidence-based empirically supported fact and "science-based." These are synonyms. Suppressing the use of these terms by professionals who are trained to use these ideas as their core value in experimenting and learning is a clear assault by ignorance and an attempt to invalidate.

Please list an example of what you mean by "the last administration blurred this line far too much" and why that even applies?

I assure you that any administration that pulled this would meet the same resistance from me.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#6)
"The scientific process is based on on-going observations of reality, which can change depending on the insertion of new data. The terms are banned, but the scientific process and the evidence produced are not"

Yet.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#7)
ninesalone wrote:
> It's actually getting to the point for me where the louder the left cries, the more
> I expect it to be positive news. If this is your idea of '1984' we really do see
> the world differently.
>
> There is a difference between objective science and politicized science. The last
> administration blurred that line far too much.

I'm trying not to be a dick as much as possible; especially here, because it's a hobby site that really is not the idea forum for real debate- however, we do see the world differently. It is not because of political ideology, which does not shape my world view. My political ideology is shaped from my experience of the world and my eduction.

The difference between my opinion and your opinion, particularly on this topic which deals with the CDC, a place that I worked in- is 1) I am educated enough to comment on this. 10 years of science training and a doctorate in medical / life sciences. My opinion is based off of that fact.
2) I formed my opinion based off of MY life experience and my literal expertise on this subject. You formed yours on second hand information from someone else.

What happened there was one of us used "evidence based" experience to support a stance. The other doesn't seem to be doing that.

I expect some bullcrap on the lines of "elitist" or whatever you want to cry- but know this with certainty: if we were having a discussion in which your profession was the topic and you had input I would gladly accept your input as valid. Especially over some politicized internet blog or article.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Dec-2017(#8)
Feeb wrote:

> Please list an example of what you mean by "the last administration blurred this
> line far too much" and why that even applies?

http://freebeacon.com/politics/congress-obama-admi...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2016/11/15/trump...

"His scientific appointees in the White House, the Centers for Disease Control, and the Food and Drug Administration were distinguished by their progressive ideology, not the quality of their research. They used junk science--or no science--to justify misbegotten crusades against dietary salt, trans fats, and electronic cigarettes. They cited phony statistics to spread myths about a gender pay gap and a rape crisis on college campuses. Ignoring mainstream climate scientists, they blamed droughts and storms on global warming and then tried to silence critics who pointed out their mistakes."

Seems like the Trump administration is trying to undo the damage. The last administration politicized everything from science to the FBI.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#9)
ninesalone wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>
>> Please list an example of what you mean by "the last administration blurred this
>> line far too much" and why that even applies?
>
>
>
> "His scientific appointees in the White House, the Centers for Disease Control, and
> the Food and Drug Administration were distinguished by their progressive ideology,
> not the quality of their research. They used junk science--or no science--to justify
> misbegotten crusades against dietary salt, trans fats, and electronic cigarettes.
> They cited phony statistics to spread myths about a gender pay gap and a rape crisis
> on college campuses. Ignoring mainstream climate scientists, they blamed droughts
> and storms on global warming and then tried to silence critics who pointed out their
> mistakes."
>
> Seems like the Trump administration is trying to undo the damage. The last administration
> politicized everything from science to the FBI.


Until the current administration professional input and scientific community consensus drove policy. If that is political I don't know what to say to you. Maybe research why it is political. I know from the pure information standpoint that most of it should not be.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
16-Dec-2017(#10)
This is double-plus-ungood.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
* 16-Dec-2017(#11)
What has come before supports the idea that androgen excess during the developmental stages following the embryo may lead to a human that after development into an independent little baby may then become a man who thinks he is a woman and vice versa.


Pretty easy workaround.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#12)
That's fine, but that is a medical aberration, not the norm, and not something we should embrace, but look to solve as a medical issue.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#13)
Similar to development of three different copies of parts of the 21st chromosome. Yeah. That's been done. Not gonna fly.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#14)
No matter how you slice it, a physical abnormality which causes erratic and abnormal behavior is a bad condition that we should work to solve, not something to be celebrated.

Just like we look for cures and prevention for autism, mental retardation etc, someone thinking they are the opposite gender because of whatever medical reason is not a movement, or forward progress, it's contra to the survival of the species and medically, socially, and evolutionary problematic.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#15)
In some cases It's a mutation. The cure is to cull the gene when it's encountered and remove it from the pool. You can see where that is going. See Ohio's recent push to ban abortion of trisomy 21 afflicted fetuses with definitive positive testing. Not in our country. Not in our lifetime.

Other things like gender association issues are not that well understood, but roadblock after roadblock is placed to impede that understanding.

longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#16)
I'm not getting into specifics here, we can talk specifics for sure, but first establish that it is an aberration and not some new forward thinking human evolution that we need to push down "those bigots'" throats.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
* 16-Dec-2017(#17)
I think we agree on the potential uses of the knowledge. It's the acquisition of and ability to use it unimpeded by political pressure that I'm concerned with.

This stuff is hard fact not political ideology.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
16-Dec-2017(#18)
longhornsk57 wrote:
> I'm not getting into specifics here, we can talk specifics for sure, but first establish
> that it is an aberration and not some new forward thinking human evolution that we
> need to push down "those bigots'" throats.


I see your point here, but assuming you are right, if it's being called a bigot that bothers you when you feel you're not, then perhaps you could empathize with the plight of a transgendered person on some level?

An "aberration" implies something that is unwelcome. Perhaps anomaly would be more apropos? Unless you purposefully want them to feel unwelcome. In which case, it comes off as sort of bigoted.


Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#19)
We're not going with "choice" anymore?
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
16-Dec-2017(#20)
Feeb wrote:
> We're not going with "choice" anymore?

Perhaps they finally realized that inundating oneself with constant berating and belittling paired with threats of bodily harm just to wear a dress isn't a choice that anyone makes.


Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#21)
Interesting take. So the "choice" is to be "accepted."

Another slippery slope. I'm sure we can look hard enough to find the defect that allows for religion...

See what I did there?
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
16-Dec-2017(#22)
Some delusions should be celebrated I suppose. I'd like a comprehensive list of [non]acceptable delusions.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#23)
Memory hole.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#24)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> longhornsk57 wrote:
>> I'm not getting into specifics here, we can talk specifics for sure, but first
> establish
>> that it is an aberration and not some new forward thinking human evolution that
> we
>> need to push down "those bigots'" throats.
>
>
> I see your point here, but assuming you are right, if it's being called a bigot that
> bothers you when you feel you're not, then perhaps you could empathize with the plight
> of a transgendered person on some level?
>
> An "aberration" implies something that is unwelcome. Perhaps anomaly would be more
> apropos? Unless you purposefully want them to feel unwelcome. In which case, it comes
> off as sort of bigoted.
>

J don't mind being called a bigot at all.

I think it's unproductive to just label and write off someone who who posits the idea that this is something to be solved and not glorified.

As long as that's not happening you can call me whatever you want.

As for them feeling unwelcome or whatever. Bottom line I have gay friends. I like them and hang out and would help them in need, I do not feel uncomfortable around them. But their being gay is in my opinion is not something I would glorify. It doesn't mean their freaks or anything, we have mutual respect, but it's not conducive towards survival as species.

MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
16-Dec-2017(#25)
longhornsk57 wrote:
> MikeyWhoa wrote:
>> longhornsk57 wrote:
> |>> I'm not getting into specifics here, we can talk specifics for sure, but first
>> establish
> |>> that it is an aberration and not some new forward thinking human evolution that
>> we
> |>> need to push down "those bigots'" throats.
>>
>>
>> I see your point here, but assuming you are right, if it's being called a bigot
> that
>> bothers you when you feel you're not, then perhaps you could empathize with the
> plight
>> of a transgendered person on some level?
>>
>> An "aberration" implies something that is unwelcome. Perhaps anomaly would be
> more
>> apropos? Unless you purposefully want them to feel unwelcome. In which case, it
> comes
>> off as sort of bigoted.
>>
>
> J don't mind being called a bigot at all.
>
> I think it's unproductive to just label and write off someone who who posits the
> idea that this is something to be solved and not glorified.
>
> As long as that's not happening you can call me whatever you want.
>
> As for them feeling unwelcome or whatever. Bottom line I have gay friends. I like
> them and hang out and would help them in need, I do not feel uncomfortable around
> them. But their being gay is in my opinion is not something I would glorify. It
> doesn't mean their freaks or anything, we have mutual respect, but it's not conducive
> towards survival as species.
>
>


I disagree about the "conducive towards survival as a species." With the ever growing world population, and the negative effect that people have on our natural resources, I think people who can't/won't conceive children are actually benefiting the species.

But I've steered us too off topic as it is.

Could someone perhaps explain why banning the words "vulnerable" "diversity" and "fetus" is helpful? Or why they were harmful to begin with?


Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#26)
I'm guessing it's a movement toward reducing human development to something like the word "child in the womb." As has been tried already. Political connotations for the naive and gullible are obvious.

And liberals.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#27)
I think banning any words is stupid.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
16-Dec-2017(#28)
longhornsk57 wrote:
> I think banning any words is stupid.

Absolutely. It's a step down the wrong path for sure.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
18-Dec-2017(#29)
Turns out it was all fake news anyway.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
18-Dec-2017(#30)
Source? CDC friends say it's legit.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
* 18-Dec-2017(#32)
The words are not banned. They were told not to use them. Forbidden. These guys rely heavily on government funding for their projects- use of those words almost guarantees a harder time providing funds. Using them is seen as defiance. Semantics.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
18-Dec-2017(#34)
Equates to a "voluntary" denial of funding.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
18-Dec-2017(#35)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
>
>

Yeah. This is what my sources are saying.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
18-Dec-2017(#36)
It's not an ideal situation, having to avoid trigger words to get Republicans to approve the CDC budget, but they're not banned as initially reported.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
* 18-Dec-2017(#37)
The initial reports I got were words were "forbidden." If you use them we will fudge you.
Finn
GameTZ Gold Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
19-Dec-2017(#38)
different wording but in the end will result in the same thing as a ban... But fake news you know.

Topic   Ingsoc, Newspeak earn another victory!