Politics

Topic   Las Vegas Shooting @ Outdoor Concert

shadyfozzie
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
2-Oct(#1)
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooter...


zenon_k
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#2)
Holy crap. Woke up today in a panic because my best friend is Vegas for her friends' wedding and she's a big country music fan and concerts/festivals are her life. Sure enough she was there and left like an hour before to get back home to L.A. She's fine thank fudge.
shadyfozzie
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
2-Oct(#3)
apparently, he broke the window out on the 32nd floor and started shooting.. That's just in-fudging-sane..
Scott
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review
2-Oct(#4)
The live videos are terrifying. This is easily the worst shooting in US history, right? This is just terrible, I can't understand what would drive a person to do something like this.

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
2-Oct(#5)
frown
bonanza125
650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#6)
I think hotels need to start checking bags for weapons. I know some do this already but something is wrong when a person is able to bring into a hotel 10 rifles undetected or questioned. This is the world we live in today.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#7)
Absolutely terrible. Thoughts are with the victims and their families. I have friends who frequent Las Vegas often who I have yet to hear from and am getting real anxious.

Despite plenty of folks having a different opinion, I need to say it. Not going to debate this here, but there really needs to be more done about gun control in this country. No, that won't stop all gun violence obviously, but it certainly wouldn't hurt as has been proven with nuuumerous civilized countries. No progressive, civilized country has nearly the gun violence that the US does. This isn't an attack on anyone's freedoms, you don't need to get offended by this sentiment if your hobby is collecting/shooting guns, it's just becoming a more blatant fact as each year passes.

And please don't hit me with the "I can't believe you'd use this tragedy to push your agenda forward" schtick. If folks paid attention to people making this point after every mass shooting that happened, if we at least tried as opposed to just saying "well it could happen anywhere", then we could make strides in dealing with this. It's getting to the point that this blatant disregard for human safety in order to allow the mass production of these weapons is not a good thing. You can pride yourself as an American and collector all you want, but we're at the point where enough is enough. We need to reassess how we handle firearms and the manufacturing/distributing of firearms. Unfortunately there's less money in that than just pumping them out, so our government (any form of it) likely won't step up.

Respect to everyone, not trying to fight, this stuff just needs to end.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#8)
You can neg me all you want, but this unfortunate bullcrap will just keep happening until we do something about it. Constantly ignoring the writing on the wall is why we're in the situation we are.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#9)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Absolutely terrible. Thoughts are with the victims and their families. I have friends
> who frequent Las Vegas often who I have yet to hear from and am getting real anxious.
>
> Despite plenty of folks having a different opinion, I need to say it. Not going to
> debate this here, but there really needs to be more done about gun control in this
> country. No, that won't stop all gun violence obviously, but it certainly wouldn't
> hurt as has been proven with nuuumerous civilized countries. No progressive, civilized
> country has nearly the gun violence that the US does. This isn't an attack on anyone's
> freedoms, you don't need to get offended by this sentiment if your hobby is collecting/shooting
> guns, it's just becoming a more blatant fact as each year passes.
>
> And please don't hit me with the "I can't believe you'd use this tragedy to push
> your agenda forward" schtick. If folks paid attention to people making this point
> after every mass shooting that happened, if we at least tried as opposed to just
> saying "well it could happen anywhere", then we could make strides in dealing with
> this. It's getting to the point that this blatant disregard for human safety in order
> to allow the mass production of these weapons is not a good thing. You can pride
> yourself as an American and collector all you want, but we're at the point where
> enough is enough. We need to reassess how we handle firearms and the manufacturing
> of firearms. Unfortunately there's less money in that than just pumping them out,
> so our government (any form of it) likely won't step up.
>
> Respect to everyone, not trying to fight, this stuff just needs to end.

I know I'm in the minority as a gun enthusiast, but I do tend to agree that some form of stricter laws need to be created. It's extremely easy to buy certain guns, rifles especially. I know in my state, there is no background check or anything required for a private sale of a rifle. I've literally bought an AK-47 in a gas station parking lot, and it was totally legal. That person had no way of knowing what my intentions were. That does come with questions though. Would any flags have been raised on this person had there been a more thorough investigation? In some cases, I would guess no, though I can't specifically say here obviously. Also from what I've read, he may have had a full auto rifle, which isn't legal at all, so he obviously didn't come by the gun legally in the first place. I think there are a lot of unanswered questions at this point. However, if it meant keeping a firearm out of an unsuitable person's hands, me waiting longer to purchase something until a thorough check was done wouldn't be an issue.
Gypsy
GameTZ Gold Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
2-Oct(#10)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Absolutely terrible. Thoughts are with the victims and their families. I have friends
> who frequent Las Vegas often who I have yet to hear from and am getting real anxious.
>
> Despite plenty of folks having a different opinion, I need to say it. Not going to
> debate this here, but there really needs to be more done about gun control in this
> country. No, that won't stop all gun violence obviously, but it certainly wouldn't
> hurt as has been proven with nuuumerous civilized countries. No progressive, civilized
> country has nearly the gun violence that the US does. This isn't an attack on anyone's
> freedoms, you don't need to get offended by this sentiment if your hobby is collecting/shooting
> guns, it's just becoming a more blatant fact as each year passes.
>
> And please don't hit me with the "I can't believe you'd use this tragedy to push
> your agenda forward" schtick. If folks paid attention to people making this point
> after every mass shooting that happened, if we at least tried as opposed to just
> saying "well it could happen anywhere", then we could make strides in dealing with
> this. It's getting to the point that this blatant disregard for human safety in order
> to allow the mass production of these weapons is not a good thing. You can pride
> yourself as an American and collector all you want, but we're at the point where
> enough is enough. We need to reassess how we handle firearms and the manufacturing
> of firearms. Unfortunately there's less money in that than just pumping them out,
> so our government (any form of it) likely won't step up.
>
> Respect to everyone, not trying to fight, this stuff just needs to end.

I plussed you. I'm also sure I'll get negged for this post but if I'm ever senselessly gunned down I sure as crap hope the first thing that happens is people talking about how to prevent it from happening in the future.

2017 has been a brutal year for gun violence in the US.

bonanza125
650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#11)
theJAwwww wrote:
> You can neg me all you want, but this unfortunate bullcrap will just keep happening
> until we do something about it. Constantly ignoring the writing on the wall is why
> we're in the situation we are.

People have the Right to Bear Arms.
KCPenguins
Gold Good Trader
2-Oct(#12)
It's a sad day. Mental health is a serious issue, but fudge this guy. Thoughts and prayers out to the victims and families of the victims.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#13)
bonanza125 wrote:
>
> People have the Right to Bear Arms.

image

Respect all the input fellas. Let's just hope for a better tomorrow.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 2-Oct(#14)
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

what, if any, regulations would current and potential gun owners be willing to submit to - firearms training, mental health evaluation, previous criminal history review, age, etc? Or would any of these and other types of limits be considered infringement?

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5 to 4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes,
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 2-Oct(#15)
The tragedy that happened is still very fresh. We are still waiting for some of the facts to come in. Can we just for once come together as a country, for at least a day, before diving into politically charged debates?

Watching some of these interviews with people that were there... it's hard not to shed a tear. What a monster.

If anyone is wondering how they can help, A GoFundMe has been set up.
https://www.gofundme.com/dr2ks2-las-vegas-victims-...
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#16)
All due respect, it's possible to feel grief and disgust for what happened, to sympathize for the victims, and also have a legitimate conversation about gun control. It's not disrespectful to do so, I personally consider it more disrespectful to act as a surrogate emotional vessel for the family members who lost loved ones by suggesting everyone put valid opinions aside to grieve as though we were going through the same gut wrenching pain that the families are. Especially when the thing that took said loved ones could have been preventable had more people been willing to have the conversation. It doesn't take long for a "can we just not talk about it on the day it happens" to turn into a "well that was last week, let's just hope it doesn't happen again."

Acknowledging that isn't a political attack toward anyone of any political alignment, at least from me. People on every imaginable side actively avoid these difficult discussions. It's just how I strongly feel and think it's a conversation worth having.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#17)
@theJAwwww

I hear you and we can and probably will have that conversation. I don't think you're intentionally being disrespectful. This is an emotionally charged situation and I think you have good intentions. There are still facts coming in and I don't want to say much until I know more about it. All I know is that people, including children, were mowed down by some psychopath. I'd rather take a pause to let that sink in and understand it more before talking about government policy.

At the very least, we all should be talking about how to help the people who have been victimized now and that's why I linked the GoFundMe. If you live close to the area, I assume you can donate blood and supplies as well.

That seems to be logical step as of right now. We can call each other morons tomorrow.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#18)
Haha no one's a moron here. I feel you completely, we just have different viewpoints on how to process this situation.

I agree that help is a primary concern right now, the clinic to donate blood for those in the area is:

‪Labor Health & Welfare Clinic‬
‪7135 W. Sahara‬

Post it up to your social media accounts if you know folks close by who may not know how to go about helping out.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
2-Oct(#19)
This is relevant. America's gun violence/mass shootings explained via charts and maps:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/...

It can't be ignored anymore. Shouldn't have been for so long in the first place.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#20)
Here is Crowder debunking Vox's gun control propaganda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IULSD8VwXEs
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
2-Oct(#21)
ninesalone wrote:
> Here is Crowder debunking Vox's gun control propaganda
>

Actually a super good video with very useful information. Great counter-points and glad they tore apart that VOX video. Throw enough numbers around and the target audience won't be paying attention anymore; without context that video looks very scary, until you realize all the contradictions and ignorance of reality.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#22)
Admittedly didn't look into the sources of the vox article, but there are similar statistics reported by many outlets. Here's a somewhat recent article from from 2016 on NYT: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compa...

It's still an unusual issue for our country alone.

And Steven Crowder makes his name by "debunking" anything the left believes. If he made good points in that video, good on him, but he's been plenty full of crap himself pretty consistently.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Oct(#23)
I think the question many people would have is, if this shooter was using an illegally obtained weapon, then would stricter gun laws have made any difference?
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 2-Oct(#24)
Some changes would need to be made for sure. Some regulations being placed on gun shows where licensed gun owners are selling top notch guns to just anyone would be a good place to start at the very least. Full mental health evaluations for anybody in a household where a firearm would be kept. It needs to be harder to obtain. It's clear that the current state of things isn't working as well as it should be. There are a bunch of things that can at least be tried but for some reason never are.
Noid
Gold Good Trader
* 3-Oct(#25)
It sucks that someone murdered a bunch of innocent people. It also sucks that we can't carry on a conversation about this without bringing political ideologies to the forefront and having the whole damn thing thrown into the Politics forum. Shame on each and every one of you! angry
theJaw
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* 3-Oct(#26)
What would you suggest the conversation be? Just people sharing "condolences" to come off as if they care one day so they can brush the actual issue off the next?

It's really not a political ideology to acknowledge something needs to be done about this - it's something both sides should acknowledge is a conversation that needs to happen. I understand the need for grieving time but when no progressive conversations came after a kindergarten class was shot up, it's time we who didn't know the victims personally stop pretending that we feel as hurt as their family members and step up as citizens to prevent this from happening to other families again. I choose to honor the victims by bringing conversations about what could have prevented their deaths to the forefront instead of pretending nobody should be allowed to talk about it solely because it happened.

Feeling sympathy shouldn't automatically mean one should have to keep quiet about the brunt of the issue. I respect those lost enough to not feel content "saving the conversation for later". All of us care about the lives lost.

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#27)
theJAwwww wrote:
> It's really not a political ideology to acknowledge something needs to be done about
> this

What? Other than taking all the guns, what?

What would you do that you think would have made this not happen? Because the only things that I'm thinking of have nothing to do with guns and everything to do with the guy who did this and his circumstances. You're being distracted by the guns for some reason. You've got guns on the brain.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#28)
Who said take all the guns? This is what I mean. Somebody suggests a change made to a system with holes in it and somebody needs to act like it's an attack on their political alignment. I don't give a fudge if you're liberal or conservative, I care about creating a discussion about gun control and how to make it harder for mentally ill people to get in contact with them considering mass shootings and gun violence is an issue in our country and there are regulations missing that could help the situation.

In my response to Dustin I suggested 2 things that would have made this less likely to happen. There are others. Again, as proven by plenty of countries, certain regulations put in place DO help contain the gun violence. That's not a knock to America, that's a plain and simple fact. Obviously nothing is going to stop a mentally unstable person from shooting up a concert if that's what they set their minds to... but it's wholly possible to make it more difficult for him to get his collection of firearms to use in the act. Get guns ON your brain, because pretending the handling of guns in this country doesn't at least play a part in these tragedies is willful ignorance. Try some critical thinking instead of assuming people trying to put an end to gun violence are just trying to stifle your political opinion.

Making this a question of political alliance is exactly what snuffs out any actual discussion about it and deflects the conversation toward an argument or debate. Nobody's saying "take all the guns", that's you refusing to put your second amendment aside for two seconds in order to think that maybe your (a militia's) right to bear arms isn't the most important thing anymore.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#29)
I said what I said because it's literally the only change that could possibly have affected what happened, was if literally zero guns existed.

The Gunshow Loophole didn't cause this.

Background Checks didn't cause this.

Lowering clip sizes wouldn't have stopped this.

Restricting certain gun types wouldn't have stopped this.

Mentally unwell people already can't own guns.

This guy was probably "fine" before he decided he was going to kill as many people as he could before he killed himself.

Are you suggesting a Minority Report system? That might have stopped this. Otherwise I cannot think of a possible firearms legislative response to this that would prevent it from happening again. Because we already have SO MANY LAWS AND REGULATIONS in regards to this that, surprise, do not stop people who want to kill a lot of people from killing a lot of people. Because they don't care about laws. So I see a token gun legislative response as not only ineffectual, but also irresponsible. Because you aren't fixing the problem.

The problem was this guy was sick. Why didn't he get help? You answer THAT question, you fix THAT problem, and you're on the right track to preventing this sort of needless waste of life.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#30)
Nothing will stop people killing each other. But yes, there are things that could prevent the consistent mass shootings from happening. Just because there's no way to stop murder from existing doesn't mean we should be content when it happens on such a grand scale.

Considering it doesn't happen nearly as much in other areas of the world, it's evident that some of the things you mentioned not being able to stop this COULD have been addressed earlier in an attempt to prevent it from happening since IT DOES in places with the regulations in place. Also considering the gun used is apparently one commonly sold at gun shows, so I mean, that specific detail could've gone a long way toward it.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#31)
Ah, but we've already learned that not only does non-drug related gun violence happen less often than in MANY parts of the country once you take our country's size compared to others into consideration, but gun violence as a whole is trending downward and has been for a while now.

I agree there are probably ways to decrease mass shootings, but for some reason you're assuming attacking guns is the answer. I think attacking the mental health problem in America would be substantially more effective.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
3-Oct(#32)
DiamondDave wrote:
> I said what I said because it's literally the only change that could possibly have
> affected what happened, was if literally zero guns existed.
>
> The Gunshow Loophole didn't cause this.
>
> Background Checks didn't cause this.
>
> Lowering clip sizes wouldn't have stopped this.
>
> Restricting certain gun types wouldn't have stopped this.
>
> Mentally unwell people already can't own guns.
>
> This guy was probably "fine" before he decided he was going to kill as many people
> as he could before he killed himself.
>
> Are you suggesting a Minority Report system? That might have stopped this. Otherwise
> I cannot think of a possible firearms legislative response to this that would prevent
> it from happening again. Because we already have SO MANY LAWS AND REGULATIONS in
> regards to this that, surprise, do not stop people who want to kill a lot of people
> from killing a lot of people. Because they don't care about laws. So I see a token
> gun legislative response as not only ineffectual, but also irresponsible. Because
> you aren't fixing the problem.
>
> The problem was this guy was sick. Why didn't he get help? You answer THAT question,
> you fix THAT problem, and you're on the right track to preventing this sort of needless
> waste of life.


All solid points.

I'd also add that you could've armed every human being in the world, and it wouldn't have stopped this.

More guns, good guys, law abiding citizens, all the same arguments wouldn't have stopped it.

Only him not having access to these weapons would have stopped it.


DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#33)
I'd argue a sick man not being sick anymore would have stopped it much more effectively. Even without a gun, this guy was going to do something terrible. Agreed? So why are we going after the weapons instead of his state of mind and access to mental health services and addiction recovery?

If you took away his guns, he's still got cars. Cars, he's still got Google for homebrew explosives. Internet, he's still got close quarters weapons. Make him well and he doesn't kill a single person, or himself.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#34)
Because the weapon he used should not have ended up with him as is the case with any mass shooting.

If he had a knife, he wouldn't have been able to stab everyone from a room across the street. The gun is what allowed him to do this, and it was too easy for him to get it. Yes he was mentally unstable, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he had an arsenal at the ready. I really don't see how this is so difficult to grasp.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#35)
Do you even know if he got the weapons legally or illegally?

I can't help but notice you continue to completely ignore this guy's mental state, it HAS to be the guns. That's so weird to me. That's such a weird response.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
3-Oct(#36)
DiamondDave wrote:
> I'd argue a sick man not being sick anymore would have stopped it much more effectively.
> Even without a gun, this guy was going to do something terrible. Agreed?


Yes, but don't minimize it. Ease of access helped him commit the crime on a mass scale.

It takes know-how, money, and a lot of effort to build a bomb. It would also be harder to place it to do that much damage.

And we both know that nobody is going on a stabbing spree that kills 50+ and injures 500+.

The mentally disturbed + ability to access weapons of mass destruction equals this situation.

> So why
> are we going after the weapons instead of his state of mind and access to mental
> health services and addiction recovery?


They're not mutually exclusive. Why not both?

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#37)
Regardless, he was mentally unstable and shouldn't have had them. This much is clear. I would hope he got them illegally because if not, there are REAL problems with the gun control in the country beyond the black market.

Also, it's wholly easier to put regulations on guns than it is to heal somebody's mental illness. I'd rather go for a more immediate solution to the GUN VIOLENCE while continuing to work toward proper medical treatment than just being content to say "well if his brain magically worked right this wouldn't have happened."
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#38)
Because I can see a pile of weapons thrown on the floor without a sick guy behind them will kill no one. On the flipside, a guy with a bunch of guns who isn't sick will also not go on a murder spree. There's one element that ignites the entire situation.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
3-Oct(#39)
DiamondDave wrote:
> Because I can see a pile of weapons thrown on the floor without a sick guy behind
> them will kill no one. On the flipside, a guy with a bunch of guns who isn't sick
> will also not go on a murder spree. There's one element that ignites the entire
> situation.


The mentally ill, sick, disturbed and evil exist in every country in the world. Why is this the country that sees domestic shootings like this on this great of a scale?


theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#40)
@DiamondDave No, there are two. Throw a pile of knives in front of a sick person and they'll kill maybe one person? Two?

Put a pile of semi-automatic or automatic guns that are acquired illegally in front of him and he's got a whole lot more to work with, including anonymity for whoever sold them to him.

You're only degrading your own argument by acting oblivious to the power of a firearm. It really doesn't seem like you grasp what they're capable of on a base level. Either that or, like I said, you're remaining willfully ignorant to it.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#41)
Again, you don't even know how he got this stuff. If he got them illegally, there's no possible legislative response that would have stopped this. If he got them legally, there's no possible legislative response that would have stopped this unless you outlaw gun sales.

I'm not willfully ignorant of anything, I feel like my eyes are wide open here. The problem was the gentleman who did this.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#42)
DiamondDave wrote:
> Again, you don't even know how he got this stuff. If he got them illegally, there's
> no possible legislative response that would have stopped this. If he got them legally,
> there's no possible legislative response that would have stopped this unless you
> outlaw gun sales.

Or prohibit the illegal sale of guns at gun shows instead of remaining content with the gray area. Have officials in place to officiate sales so there's some responsibility.
Or perform psych analysis on people who will be around guns, the handler and those in their household.
Or follow some of the numerous outlines other countries follow that have proven to prevent consistent attacks.

You keep saying nothing could be done, but there are. You're literally just ignoring that fact because it's easier to blame the mental illness and not have to second guess your opinion.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#43)
1. What illegal gun sales?
2. Everyone's fine until they aren't.
3. What countries?

You're acting like there's a blueprint to keep people from mass murdering. I'm not seeing it. The answer is literally to do what Australia did and just take away the guns, and I gotta tell you, that is not going to go down well in this country. Anything less than that is completely and utterly useless.
theJaw
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* 3-Oct(#44)
1. The ones at gun shows where licensed gun owners sell semi automatic weapons to unlicensed people. This is a common occurrence that even those in the gun trading scene admit. No background checks are required at gun shows. Look it up.
2. Okay. Doesn't mean we should be content with mass shootings.
3. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-glo...
You can find some good info there, though there are plenty of google searches you could seek out. This site also compares our system to Israel, and ours is admittedly obviously better. But that's not saying much.

There are plenty of regulations that could help prevent mass shootings. Plain and simple. It only "won't go over well" with those obsessive gun nuts. Most people feel safe with a pistol and aren't afraid to take a little extra measure to make sure it's appropriate that they own one. Again, NO ONE is suggesting banning all guns. That's just how you choose to process the information.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#45)
Well, shouldn't say NO ONE, but you catch my drift.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#46)
theJAwwww wrote:
> DiamondDave wrote:
>> Again, you don't even know how he got this stuff. If he got them illegally, there's
>> no possible legislative response that would have stopped this. If he got them
> legally,
>> there's no possible legislative response that would have stopped this unless you
>> outlaw gun sales.
>
> Or prohibit the illegal sale of guns at gun shows instead of remaining content with
> the gray area. Have officials in place to officiate sales so there's some responsibility.
> Or perform psych analysis on people who will be around guns, the handler and those
> in their household.
> Or follow some of the numerous outlines other countries follow that have proven to
> prevent consistent attacks.
>
> You keep saying nothing could be done, but there are. You're literally just ignoring
> that fact because it's easier to blame the mental illness and not have to second
> guess your opinion.

Not here to argue but just need to clear something up. The "gun show loophole" doesn't really exist as the media would have you believe. You can't buy automatic weapons or other illegal weapons at a gun show. The same background checks are done there as if you went into a store. I'm not sure what gun was used here, but from what I read it was fully automatic. As I said before, that is illegal anywhere (just about). You could buy something like that off craigslist just as easily, the gun show portion is irrelevant.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#47)
theJAwwww wrote:
> 1. The ones at gun shows where licensed gun owners sell semi automatic weapons to
> unlicensed people. This is a common occurrence that even those in the gun trading
> scene admit. No background checks are required at gun shows. Look it up.

I didn't see this as I was typing my other response, but again, that's not true.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#48)
theJAwwww wrote:
> 1. The ones at gun shows where licensed gun owners sell semi automatic weapons to
> unlicensed people. This is a common occurrence that even those in the gun trading
> scene admit. No background checks are required at gun shows. Look it up.
> 2. Okay. Doesn't mean we should be content with mass shootings.
> You can find some good info there, though there are plenty of google searches you
> could seek out. This site also compares our system to Israel, and ours is admittedly
> obviously better. But that's not saying much.
>
> There are plenty of regulations that could help prevent mass shootings. Plain and
> simple. It only "won't go over well" with those obsessive gun nuts. Most people feel
> safe with a pistol and aren't afraid to take a little extra measure to make sure
> it's appropriate that they own one. Again, NO ONE is suggesting banning all guns.
> That's just how you choose to process the information.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I think doing what Australia did is the only real solution that would have any effective measured follow-through, but unless you label everyone with a gun that doesn't want to hand them over to the government a "gun nut", you will see a LOT of people who are going to take issue with it. One of the tenants of gun ownership as we enjoy it now is the ability to retain parity against the arms of our government and police to ensure there is not any way that we, the people would effectively be outgunned by those that would want to forcibly hold power over us.

Do I THINK the government would do that? No. Is it one of the reasons we agreed on having the right to bear arms? Absolutely. There's no point in keeping pea shooters around if the police and government are toting mounted fully-auto machine guns.

Keep in mind, I'm not a gun owner, and I don't really have any desire to be one. I'm looking at all the laws on the books, all the gun legislation we've enacted and I'm seeing the same... fudging... crap... happening... over... and over... again. And again. And while you're STILL focused on the guns, I'm like, well wait. Wait a fudging second here.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#49)
Dustin wrote:
> theJAwwww wrote:
>> 1. The ones at gun shows where licensed gun owners sell semi automatic weapons
> to
>> unlicensed people. This is a common occurrence that even those in the gun trading
>> scene admit. No background checks are required at gun shows. Look it up.
>
> I didn't see this as I was typing my other response, but again, that's not true.

Well, it is true. Not to the extent that the media play it up probably, but there have been instances of these sorts of shady dealings happening at (or you know, outside) a gun show. Folks have admitted to it apparently.

Regardless thanks for clearing up my misconception. It's good to know the loophole isn't as widely abused as it seems. Though the black market still exists big time, as you mentioned. When it comes to that, certain regulations need to be made at the ground level of manufacturing and distribution because this happens too often.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#50)
@DiamondDave just because you're looking at the gun legislation and realizing the same thing over and over doesn't mean that certain legislature wouldn't help prevent this. Again, other countries where there WEREN'T full-on gun bans had success preventing mass shootings and massacres due to passing the correct legislation. I just linked you to examples.

We definitely will need to agree to disagree because unfortunately you're not taking proven practice into account and are content just assuming nothing can be done on a legal level. Oh well I guess. I just hope the majority don't feel the way you do or we'll be doomed to repeat the same bloody history over and over.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#51)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Dustin wrote:
>> theJAwwww wrote:
> |>> 1. The ones at gun shows where licensed gun owners sell semi automatic weapons
>> to
> |>> unlicensed people. This is a common occurrence that even those in the gun trading
> |>> scene admit. No background checks are required at gun shows. Look it up.
>>
>> I didn't see this as I was typing my other response, but again, that's not true.
>
> Well, it is true. Not to the extent that the media play it up probably, but there
> have been instances of these sorts of shady dealings happening at (or you know, outside)
> a gun show. Folks have admitted to it apparently.

No, it's not true. It's not a matter of opinion. Like I said, the same background checks are required at gun shows that are required in a retail location. Sure you may be able to "buy something outside" or off the books, but that is illegal and could be done anywhere. Gun shows do not allow people to gain access to firearms that wouldn't normally have access to firearms. That is the misconception that the media needs to stop touting.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#52)
No I understand what you're saying, it's illegal to sell to unlicensed folks at a gun show venue. But it remains that licensed individuals are taking advantage of the gun show's location and patrons to sell to unlicensed folks on the day of in secret. I understand now that it can't just happen there, but you also don't need a license to enter a gun show right? I didn't when I attended my one. Maybe that's where the regulations could come in. Maybe the sellers should need to register each time they sell, at each gun show, to add a little more accountability in a situation like this? Note the stock, what was sold, etc. Have trained officials check things like stock and sales as the seller arrives and as the seller leaves to ensure nothing happened during the gun show hours.

I don't attend gun shows often but the one I did attend made me feel slightly off put by how lax it was. Do you know if any of these ideas are implemented at gun shows? Genuinely curious. I just feel like there's a lot of missing accountability on various different levels of the gun trade scene.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#53)
Who cares how he got that weapon. No civilian should have that. The longer weapons like that are allowed to intermingle with the public the more times we can say "what if we could keep these off the streets." Yep. Bad people will acquire bad things if they try hard enough. The idea is to make the bad things completely unobtainable.

There's always the "but what if he's crazy?" argument. Strawman. Especially when legislation was just struck down preventing mentally ill from buying guns.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#54)
You already can't buy a gun if you're mentally ill.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#55)
Feeb wrote:
> Who cares how he got that weapon. No civilian should have that. The longer weapons
> like that are allowed to intermingle with the public the more times we can say "what
> if we could keep these off the streets." Yep. Bad people will acquire bad things
> if they try hard enough. The idea is to make the bad things completely unobtainable.
>
>
> There's always the "but what if he's crazy?" argument. Strawman. Especially when
> legislation was just struck down preventing mentally ill from buying guns.

Agreed. No civilian should have that, and by law, no civilian can legally have that. I think the "how he got that weapon" IS important though. Did he buy it at a gun show? Did he buy pieces online and build it himself? Did he buy it off Craigslist? etc. Until you know where it came from I think it'll be hard to stop it from happening. So we can throw a bunch of legislation at gun shows, or online sales, or whatever, and if that's not where it came from then what's it going to do to stop the problem?

Don't get me wrong, something needs to be done. Short of removing all guns though, which isn't going to happen, what is the solution? I personally don't know, but I think throwing blanket legislation around without having the facts isn't going to solve anything.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#56)
I can get one of those in a week. Probably faster. From a few different sources.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#57)
That seems to be the knee-jerk response. "Well, we can't take ALL the guns, so we'll do the token regulation tack-on and chalk it up as a win to our constituency and move along." The same half-assed sort of crap we make fun of Republicans for when they half-ass health care reform.

Feeb wrote:
> I can get one of those in a week. Probably faster. From a few different sources.
>

Legal sources?
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#58)
DiamondDave wrote:
> You already can't buy a gun if you're mentally ill.

Repealed.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/...
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#59)
Feeb wrote:
> I can get one of those in a week. Probably faster. From a few different sources.
>

You can buy a fully automatic weapon legally in a week?
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#60)
What facts do we not have? We have the statistics regardless to how hard guys like Steven Crowder can "debunk" the way certain outlets present them. I don't know what else we need to know. Whether it's legally obtained or not, the wrong people are getting guns. There are processes that could be put into place to help prevent that.

We can look to our neighbors to see how to apply the regulations to our own country. That wouldn't be an admittance of defeat like many seem to think. We just never even attempt it because most folks are content saying just that, "I don't think anything will help". I say we give it a shot. I really don't see how trying new regulations could make the current affair of gun violence worse.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#61)
DiamondDave wrote:
> That seems to be the knee-jerk response. "Well, we can't take ALL the guns, so we'll
> do the token regulation tack-on and chalk it up as a win to our constituency and
> move along." The same half-assed sort of crap we make fun of Republicans for when
> they half-ass health care reform.
>
> Feeb wrote:
>> I can get one of those in a week. Probably faster. From a few different sources.
>>
>
> Legal sources?

Who said take away all guns. Bullcrap.

About as illegal as not stopping completely at a stop sign here in GA.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
* 3-Oct(#62)
Feeb wrote:
> DiamondDave wrote:
>> That seems to be the knee-jerk response. "Well, we can't take ALL the guns, so
> we'll
>> do the token regulation tack-on and chalk it up as a win to our constituency and
>> move along." The same half-assed sort of crap we make fun of Republicans for
> when
>> they half-ass health care reform.
>>
>> Feeb wrote:
> |>> I can get one of those in a week. Probably faster. From a few different sources.
> |>>
>>
>> Legal sources?
>
> Who said take away all guns. Bullcrap.
>
> About as illegal as not stopping completely at a stop sign here in GA.

So it's already illegal. K, just checking. Can you inform me on how you would... fix this problem you're seeing in your local community? Please?
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#63)
Again, whether they're legally obtained or not is irrelevant if they're still getting to the wrong hands. If illegally, something needs to be done at the ground level of manufacturing to help ensure they end up where they're supposed to. If legally, then it's even worse of an issue and needs to be dealt with. Loads of options to try with both situations. Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's do nothing" doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#64)
Feeb wrote:
> DiamondDave wrote:
>> That seems to be the knee-jerk response. "Well, we can't take ALL the guns, so
> we'll
>> do the token regulation tack-on and chalk it up as a win to our constituency and
>> move along." The same half-assed sort of crap we make fun of Republicans for
> when
>> they half-ass health care reform.
>>
>> Feeb wrote:
> |>> I can get one of those in a week. Probably faster. From a few different sources.
> |>>
>>
>> Legal sources?
>
> Who said take away all guns. Bullcrap.
>
> About as illegal as not stopping completely at a stop sign here in GA.

I don't think rolling through a stop sign is a felony is it? I'd make a different comparison there because that one doesn't work.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#65)
I mean it's six of one, half a dozen fully-autos of the other, right?
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#66)
Machine guns are legal in Nevada. Not sure what you're trying to prove? This is one of those tried and true "shooting in a gun free zone" bullcrap arguments. Chicago gets most of its guns from Indiana etc.

I can go to another state and get it legally or get it here. Yes.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#67)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's
> do nothing" doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.

I didn't say do nothing, you just didn't like my suggestion. It's apparently idiotic to make unwell people well instead of locking up innocent GUN's.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#68)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Again, whether they're legally obtained or not is irrelevant. If illegally, something
> needs to be done at the ground level of manufacturing to help ensure they end up
> where they're supposed to. If legally, then it's even worse of an issue and needs
> to be dealt with. Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's do nothing"
> doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.

Who's saying let's do nothing? I think a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum are on board with that. I think the problems arise when trying to decide what measures will help. I'm in favor of doing something, but admittedly I don't know the answer to the question what should be done. It's easy to sit back and scream "something needs to be done here!", but a lot more difficult when you try and figure out what that something is.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#69)
DiamondDave wrote:
> theJAwwww wrote:
>> Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's
>> do nothing" doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.
>
> I didn't say do nothing, you just didn't like my suggestion. It's apparently idiotic
> to make unwell people well instead of locking up innocent GUN's.

No dude, the human brain is just a lot harder to heal than it is to put a regulation into effect that has proven to work for other countries. Your solution is to do nothing in dealing with the immediate threat in order to hope for a surprise cure for mental illness. It's essentially doing nothing.

A mother ship is a mentally ill brain, the alien pods descending on you are mentally ill shooters. It'll take time to get to that mother ship, and here are proven ways to control the weapon output of the alien pods. In that scenario you'd focus all attempts on the mother ship while ignoring everyone around you getting slaughtered.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#70)
Feeb wrote:
> Machine guns are legal in Nevada. Not sure what you're trying to prove? This is one
> of those tried and true "shooting in a gun free zone" bullcrap arguments. Chicago
> gets most of its guns from Indiana etc.
>
> I can go to another state and get it legally or get it here. Yes.

That's not true at all. Are you just making stuff up? Do you know anything about guns? I'm not trying to be rude, but what you're saying is blatantly false. You can not, in the US, no matter what state, buy a "machine gun" without spending a bunch of money and going through a CRAPLOAD of red tape to get it. Basically if you obtain it legally, you're proven to be able to have it.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#71)
Dustin wrote:
> theJAwwww wrote:
>> Again, whether they're legally obtained or not is irrelevant. If illegally, something
>> needs to be done at the ground level of manufacturing to help ensure they end
> up
>> where they're supposed to. If legally, then it's even worse of an issue and needs
>> to be dealt with. Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's do nothing"
>> doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.
>
> Who's saying let's do nothing? I think a lot of people on both sides of the political
> spectrum are on board with that. I think the problems arise when trying to decide
> what measures will help. I'm in favor of doing something, but admittedly I don't
> know the answer to the question what should be done. It's easy to sit back and scream
> "something needs to be done here!", but a lot more difficult when you try and figure
> out what that something is.

Again, there have been numerous successful attempts to control gun violence in other civilized countries. You're just refusing to acknowledge that in favor of "I just don't know what to do."

If you're making this a sole question of mental illness and are chalking up the gun violence issue as unsolvable when there are proven routes we could at least TRY, you are actively doing nothing.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#72)
Used the word "you" in the general term up there ^ ps
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#73)
They have the public afraid that ANY legislation on guns will start a domino effect that ends in complete gun bans.

The NRA gives out so much money and has so much political pull that this will not go away.

Those are the main impetuses for opposing legislation.

The left uses it as a political "smoke screen" to talk crap, do some theatrics and take no real action. The record of the last 30 years is proof they don't really care. No politician has any actual professional interest in bringing about gun legislation.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (28 seconds ago) Secret Santa
3-Oct(#74)
Guns make America money, which is why nothing is done at a high level. Fortunately for the government, they've duped enough people into believing an attempt to control gun violence is a personal attack against their freedoms.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#75)
Dustin wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>> Machine guns are legal in Nevada. Not sure what you're trying to prove? This is
> one
>> of those tried and true "shooting in a gun free zone" bullcrap arguments. Chicago
>> gets most of its guns from Indiana etc.
>>
>> I can go to another state and get it legally or get it here. Yes.
>
> That's not true at all. Are you just making stuff up? Do you know anything about
> guns? I'm not trying to be rude, but what you're saying is blatantly false. You can
> not, in the US, no matter what state, buy a "machine gun" without spending a bunch
> of money and going through a CRAPLOAD of red tape to get it. Basically if you obtain
> it legally, you're proven to be able to have it.

Machine guns are legal in Nevada as long as the person in possession has acquired it through the proper means. Explain, please, which part of my statement is "not true at all?"
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (12 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#76)
theJAwwww wrote:
> DiamondDave wrote:
>> theJAwwww wrote:
> |>> Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's
> |>> do nothing" doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.
>>
>> I didn't say do nothing, you just didn't like my suggestion. It's apparently
> idiotic
>> to make unwell people well instead of locking up innocent GUN's.
>
> No dude, the human brain is just a lot harder to heal than it is to put a regulation
> into effect that has proven to work for other countries. Your solution is to do nothing
> in dealing with the immediate threat in order to hope for a surprise cure for mental
> illness. It's essentially doing nothing.
>
> A mother ship is a mentally ill brain, the alien pods descending on you are mentally
> ill shooters. It'll take time to get to that mother ship, and here are proven ways
> to control the weapon output of the alien pods. In that scenario you'd focus all
> attempts on the mother ship while ignoring everyone around you getting slaughtered.

ok
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#77)
Feeb wrote:
> Dustin wrote:
>> Feeb wrote:
> |>> Machine guns are legal in Nevada. Not sure what you're trying to prove? This
> is
>> one
> |>> of those tried and true "shooting in a gun free zone" bullcrap arguments. Chicago
> |>> gets most of its guns from Indiana etc.
> |>>
> |>> I can go to another state and get it legally or get it here. Yes.
>>
>> That's not true at all. Are you just making stuff up? Do you know anything about
>> guns? I'm not trying to be rude, but what you're saying is blatantly false. You
> can
>> not, in the US, no matter what state, buy a "machine gun" without spending a bunch
>> of money and going through a CRAPLOAD of red tape to get it. Basically if you
> obtain
>> it legally, you're proven to be able to have it.
>
> Machine guns are legal in Nevada as long as the person in possession has acquired
> it through the proper means. Explain, please, which part of my statement is "not
> true at all?"

Did you not read my response at all? I just said "without spending a bunch of money and going through a CRAPLOAD of red tape to get it." It doesn't just apply in Nevada either. However, you're trying to act like you can just drive out to Nevada and buy a machine gun then bring it home with you, and that's not even close to the truth. It takes a lot of time, money and proof to have that happen. Certainly not something you can do in a week or less.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
3-Oct(#78)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Dustin wrote:
>> theJAwwww wrote:
> |>> Again, whether they're legally obtained or not is irrelevant. If illegally, something
> |>> needs to be done at the ground level of manufacturing to help ensure they end
>> up
> |>> where they're supposed to. If legally, then it's even worse of an issue and needs
> |>> to be dealt with. Regardless, just saying "it's bound to happen so let's do nothing"
> |>> doesn't even attempt to fix the blatant issue.
>>
>> Who's saying let's do nothing? I think a lot of people on both sides of the political
>> spectrum are on board with that. I think the problems arise when trying to decide
>> what measures will help. I'm in favor of doing something, but admittedly I don't
>> know the answer to the question what should be done. It's easy to sit back and
> scream
>> "something needs to be done here!", but a lot more difficult when you try and
> figure
>> out what that something is.
>
> Again, there have been numerous successful attempts to control gun violence in other
> civilized countries. You're just refusing to acknowledge that in favor of "I just
> don't know what to do."

Not true at all. I'm willing to entertain anything. What are you suggesting? What have other countries implemented that we can benefit from?

>
> If you're making this a sole question of mental illness and are chalking up the gun
> violence issue as unsolvable when there are proven routes we could at least TRY,
> you are actively doing nothing.

I'm not doing that. What routes should we try?

tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (19 seconds ago) Secret Santa
* 3-Oct(#79)
what many people don't realize is there is already strict control. you cant just go buy machine guns and fully automatic weapons off the store shelf, even at the gun shops.

its sad that tragedies are viewed as a way for the globalists and the left to push their agenda of swaying public opinion in favor of disarming our population. criminals will still get them no matter what. all disarming the populace is going to do is turn us into 1930's Germany/Poland. the Nazi's quickly disarmed the population (well, the jewish population anyway) and then were unopposed as they had nothing to fear from a populace that couldn't stand up to them. an armed population is the only reason this country has made it this far, is safer than most, and there hasn't been a war against a foreign threat fought here in 200 years.




Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 seconds ago)
3-Oct(#80)
Dustin wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>> Dustin wrote:
> |>> Feeb wrote:
>> |>> Machine guns are legal in Nevada. Not sure what you're trying to prove? This
>> is
> |>> one
>> |>> of those tried and true "shooting in a gun free zone" bullcrap arguments.
> Chicago
>> |>> gets most of its guns from Indiana etc.
>> |>>
>> |>> I can go to another state and get it legally or get it here. Yes.
> |>>
> |>> That's not true at all. Are you just making stuff up? Do you know anything about
> |>> guns? I'm not trying to be rude, but what you're saying is blatantly false. You
>> can
> |>> not, in the US, no matter what state, buy a "machine gun" without spending a
> bunch
> |>> of money and going through a CRAPLOAD of red tape to get it. Basically if you
>> obtain
> |>> it legally, you're proven to be able to have it.
>>
>> Machine guns are legal in Nevada as long as the person in possession has acquired
>> it through the proper means. Explain, please, which part of my statement is "not
>> true at all?"
>
> Did you not read my response at all? I just said "without spending a bunch of money
> and going through a CRAPLOAD of red tape to get it." It doesn't just apply in Nevada
> either. However, you're trying to act like you can just drive out to Nevada and buy
> a machine gun then bring it home with you, and that's not even close to the truth.
> It takes a lot of time, money and proof to have that happen. Certainly not something
> you can do in a week or less.

You got that from your mind, not my words.

Topic   Las Vegas Shooting @ Outdoor Concert