Politics

Topic   The Newsroom

MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
23-Feb-2017(#1)
This topic had many older posts which were moved here:

http://gametz.com/Politics/newsroom--568825.html
http://gametz.com/Politics/newsroom--571559.html
http://gametz.com/Politics/newsroom--572956.html
http://gametz.com/Politics/newsroom--574510.html
http://gametz.com/Politics/newsroom--575480.html


One thing that I think that we might all agree with is that the news doesn't stop talking about Trump. Causing a lot of under-the-radar news stories to go underreported. It's sometimes hard for people to see or find information.

This thread is dedicated to sharing news stories or information that you think deserves more attention. Left or Right. Happy or Sad. Reporting or Opinion. All I ask is that you provide links so others can read or watch for themselves.

'Alternative' Education: Using Charter Schools to Hide Dropouts and Game the System from ProPublica.

6 Surprising Things You Learn In The Alt-Right Media Bubble from Cracked (Not a news org, but interesting still).


theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 14-Aug(#2)
Missile wrote:
> theJAwwww wrote:
>> whitefire wrote:
> |>>
>> |>Hate speech (or any speech) should not be silenced. It should be challenged.
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> No disrespect of course, I'm with you usually for the most part, but I'm not really
>> grasping this line. What's the endgame of challenging speech if not to silence
> it?
> To change their minds, or convince them. Merely silencing people without any attempt
> at dialog is something a genuine fascist would do.

Obviously in an attempt to silence hate speech, it would only happen by challenging it. By "silence" it, I essentially am SAYING to change their minds or convince them, whether it be via the shame brought on by being a bigot or the bigot just having a legitimate change of heart through dialogue.

I'm not saying to violently stifle out a group of people like a fascist would, but clever attempt to twist my words. I made it a point to say that violence in this situation isn't the correct route for anyone to take.

I'm advocating an end to hate speech and believe those who spread it should be criticized. Obviously no one is going to silence racism, that's fantasy land. But it shouldn't be indulged in intelligent conversation, it should be shamed.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug(#3)
theJAwwww wrote:
> @whitefire I wasn't challenging your views, I asked you a civil question on yours
> and then posted my own. Not everything that happens in this forum needs to be a pissing
> contest, fellas.

I was joking about that part. Sorry if the wink didn't make that obvious.

>
> Yes, views change. Speech evolves. And no, obviously the racists from the 1950's
> weren't silenced. But no, views and speech hasn't changed to the point that it's
> somehow any more or less acceptable to be racist in the modern day. That hasn't,
> and doesn't, change. It was the norm the further you get in the past - but it wasn't
> right. We're evolving as a species and in 2017, we can understand that it isn't,
> and never will be again, "right" to be racist or advocate racist ideals.

My point was just that the endgame of challenging speech is not to silence it. Silencing it doesn't change the minds of the people who think it. It just makes them scared to say it and therefore it is challenged even less (see 2016 presidential election polls for recent evidence of this).

>
> It's impossible to completely silence racism, obviously, but there's a way to make
> the loud yelling a murmur and it absolutely was on its way to that until recently.
> We should actively be attempting to silence hate speech, which will never happen
> in full, but should be attempted.

I respectfully disagree. That just adds fuel to the fire and further divides us, IMO.


Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 14-Aug(#4)
i Foxhack wrote:
> Osiris wrote:
>>
>> Does free speech guarantee protection of an "exterminate the nigras" chant?
>
> From the government.
>
so advocating elimination or deportation of darker American citizens is a political discussion? Cause only political speech was intended to be protected.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 14-Aug(#5)
@whitefire What I was getting at, boiled down to its simplest, is that challenge = silence in this argument. Actively challenging hate speech would, ideally, silence it in the long run - or, again, why bother challenging it? But again, and this is where my confusion with your wording came in, I just look at "challenging" it and "silencing" it to mean the same thing in this situation, in that to challenge a racist individual and have them change their mind would ultimately be silencing the hate speech.

That was what I was getting at, and why I wasn't following you initially. All good now.

However, in the same vein that banning a hate speech from a campus would only fuel the fire for the racists in question, actively allowing them to spread their hate on a forum like that would fuel the fire of those in violent protest of it. Part of challenging the speech and getting the point across to these people that this isn't the norm anymore, would at the very least be to take away their privileges to preach hate to a crowd of students. That's just how I feel, personally.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Aug(#6)
I think part of the issue is racism and hate, etc. have far too broad and subectives working definitions. They lose their meaning when they're constantly thrown around. People become apathetic to the words and therefore they lose their power. Words are very important, and we shouldn't use them so carelessly.

I think the internet and the ability to say whatever you're thinking to a broad audience in the moment you think it is a large part of the problem. Fudging word vomit. It also gives everyone a face and a podium, so people who should be largely ignored (not silenced but ignored) are of greater importance and can no longer be ignored. To many people with lots of knowledge (largely looked up on the internet) and not enough wisdom or education.

Let's face it, if the same word is widely used to describe someone who thinks all blacks should die or go back to Africa as someone a parent who lets her white daughter dress in a Mulan dress for Halloween, the word has kind of lost it's meaning. I've got to wonder if after articles, conjuctions, prepositions, and pronouns, it's not one of the most commonly used words on the internet. It's pretty much down there with the word "good," as far as being pretty much vague and virtually meaningless at this point.

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 14-Aug(#7)
Well yeah, that absolutely happens too often and should be saved for actual examples of racism.

But in this situation, I'd say the use of these words is completely appropriate and valid. Obviously people should reserve judgments like this for the most part, but in a situation where they're being blatantly and violently racist, it's a disservice to not call them out directly for what they are.

But yeah, going to a conservative rally for example just to play the race card is absolutely childish and silly, and deserves criticism itself haha
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Aug(#8)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Well yeah, that absolutely happens too often and should be saved for actual examples
> of racism.

Just out of curosity, who ends up deciding what "actual" racism is? I know it's a bit philisophical, but it's a vauable question to ask yourself.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that people who think others are inferior solely or predominantly due to their race are racist. I don't think anyone has argued against that.


theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
14-Aug(#9)
whitefire wrote:

>
> Let's face it, if the same word is widely used to describe someone who thinks all
> blacks should die or go back to Africa as someone a parent who lets her white daughter
> dress in a Mulan dress for Halloween, the word has kind of lost it's meaning. I've
> got to wonder if after articles, conjuctions, prepositions, and pronouns, it's not
> one of the most commonly used words on the internet. It's pretty much down there
> with the word "good," as far as being pretty much vague and meaningless at this point.
>
>

People who lose their crap over stuff like that are a little too PC for sure. While cultural appropriation is a legit thing and there are many things that could be deemed offensive to folks of other cultures (yes, including stereotypical costumes and the like), there's a difference between being someone oblivious to the culture differences in that situation (as a lot of Americans are, let's be honest) and someone marching through the streets with heavy weaponry, actively seeking for people to be killed or shipped off.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
14-Aug(#10)
whitefire wrote:
> theJAwwww wrote:
>> Well yeah, that absolutely happens too often and should be saved for actual examples
>> of racism.
>
> Just out of curosity, who ends up deciding what "actual" racism is? I know it's a
> bit philisophical, but it's a vauable question to ask yourself.
>
>
>

Sort of just answered this with my other response to you, posted above this one. My take on it at least.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
14-Aug(#11)
whitefire wrote:
> I think part of the issue is racism and hate, etc. have far too broad and subectives
> working definitions. They lose their meaning when they're constantly thrown around.
> People become apathetic to the words and therefore they lose their power. Words are
> very important, and we shouldn't use them so carelessly. I think the internet and
> the ability to say whatever you're thinking to a broad audience on the moment you
> think it is a large part of the problem. Fudging word vomit.
>
>

There isn't a standard bearer for what it is to be a racist. I'm guilty of calling others racist although they may not be. There are things that we do that are "racist" and perpetuate "racism" . What I do think is unfair and what I am learning as well, is that racist behavior does not always mean a person is an all out racist.

Also, "political correctness", is also a term that has been poorly defined by those that push for PC culture. However, to call everything that we see in academia too "PC" or that we are becoming too "PC" is also a mistake. We are just moving past it and we don't need to bring it back. For college campuses to want to not have racist, toxic, or hate speech on around to me is okay. We as a culture have determined hate, racism, and the like are no longer compatible with where we want to go as a society. We aren't silencing other fringe racists voices, but we need to let them know that it is unacceptable behavior in a diverse culture.

The internet does allow us to speak more freely. That shouldn't ever change. However, if you bring that hate out to society and impose it on to others it will and should be challenged.

I am quite aware folks may not like the progressive movements that I am a part of BLM, LGBTQ, groups. If you don't like the way BLM and LGBTQ and womens groups protest remember they have that right. The methods can always be argued. The traffic stopping, the violence, the rhetoric. These are things meant to be challenged. I also have to re center myself and remember that.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Aug(#12)
I don't find people being offended to be high up on my list of important racial atrocities to worry about. There are so many more pressing matters. Being offended can actually be a good thing (it often challenges you to think outside of your own ideological bubble).

whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug(#13)
Karaiya wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> I think part of the issue is racism and hate, etc. have far too broad and subectives
>> working definitions. They lose their meaning when they're constantly thrown around.
>> People become apathetic to the words and therefore they lose their power. Words
> are
>> very important, and we shouldn't use them so carelessly. I think the internet
> and
>> the ability to say whatever you're thinking to a broad audience on the moment
> you
>> think it is a large part of the problem. Fudging word vomit.
>>
>>
>
> There isn't a standard bearer for what it is to be a racist. I'm guilty of calling
> others racist although they may not be. There are things that we do that are "racist"
> and perpetuate "racism" . What I do think is unfair and what I am learning as well,
> is that racist behavior does not always mean a person is an all out racist.

Agreed. Have you ever stolen something? Are you a thief? Have you ever cheated on something? Are you a cheater? Have you ever lied? Are you a liar? Individual actions should not define you. There may be consequences for those actions, but they are not all-encompassing. Labeling tends to not work out very well from a sociological perspective. Just look at African-American youths who get in trouble with the law at an early age as excellent examples of why we should not label people based on individual actions.


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
14-Aug(#14)
Racism itself is a very nuanced topic. Racism comes in so many forms just like other human cultural and societal behaviors and systems of oppression. Passive and overt racism. Systemic Racism and Classism which often intersect. Imperialism, colonialism, militarism, and mass incarceration.

Within racism there can also be colorism, anti-blackness, anti semitism, anti-islamism, and xenophobia.

Its hard to just define racism as in how it molds and affects society. We have dictionary definition but that doesn't really even scratch the pathology and psychology of the subject.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 14-Aug(#15)
whitefire wrote:
> I don't find people being offended to be high up on my list of important racial atrocities
> to worry about. There are so many more pressing matters. Being offended can actually
> be a good thing (it often challenges you to think outside of your own ideological
> bubble).
>
>

It's different when it's innately a caricature of your culture boiled down to make money for a capitalist company run by somebody who likely holds prejudices against your people. I can completely understand someone being offended in that situation. It's not always about how we politically-minded Americans see the product in question or view the ideological intricacies of the matter.

Is it whacky for white folks to get super offended over stuff like that... probably a little bit. But if you're from a culture being mined dry while simultaneously being oppressed, I'd question the person if they weren't offended.

Regardless to all that, I'd say anyone who considers themselves a legitimate American should be offended by the white supremacists and racists (the ones advocating violence, not the shopping mall moms) gaining a voice right now. They're setting our culture back decades and if it's not appropriately "challenged," it will only digress further.

whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug(#16)
Karaiya wrote:
> Racism itself is a very nuanced topic. Racism comes in so many forms just like other
> human cultural and societal behaviors and systems of oppression. Passive and overt
> racism. Systemic Racism and Classism which often intersect. Imperialism, colonialism,
> militarism, and mass incarceration.

Agreed. People also need to stop using academic sociological definitions in social speak. For instance, saying that black people can't be racist toward white people because whites are the race with most of the power. Or white priviledge. Both of those are so misused because they don't realize that neither of those apply to an individual. They are macro (large group) terms.

>
> Within racism there can also be colorism, anti-blackness, anti semitism, anti-islamism,
> and xenophobia.
>
> Its hard to just define racism as in how it molds and affects society. We have dictionary
> definition but that doesn't really even scratch the pathology and psychology of the
> subject.

Agreed. That's why I tried to label it was a "working definition" because I mean more how people use it than a universally agreed upon definition.


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
14-Aug(#17)
whitefire wrote:
> I don't find people being offended to be high up on my list of important racial atrocities
> to worry about. There are so many more pressing matters. Being offended can actually
> be a good thing (it often challenges you to think outside of your own ideological
> bubble).
>
>

To me they aren't atrocities but behaviors that are proponents of racism, white supremacy, and the like.

When I think of racism or any other system of oppression I consider it like the pathology of psychological mental healtha and disease. Racism, Sexism, Misogyny, Classism, colonialism, these all have symptoms. Those symptoms can be as simple and come in a form of a micro-aggression, or a piece of legislation, a racial slur, or stereotype, appropriation. There are many things that are not a abhorrent but just as problematic as say genocide, hate crimes, violence, rape, slavery and discrimination.

They racist things we do are just symptoms. They don't make us racist but they help contribute those oppressive racist structure. They take generations to overcome the same way people live with life long depression. There is no knock out cure but treating symptoms such as offensive and having open dialogue and finding ways we can change them help dismantle those systems.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 14-Aug(#18)
whitefire wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> Racism itself is a very nuanced topic. Racism comes in so many forms just like
> other
>> human cultural and societal behaviors and systems of oppression. Passive and
> overt
>> racism. Systemic Racism and Classism which often intersect. Imperialism, colonialism,
>> militarism, and mass incarceration.
>
> Agreed. People also need to stop using academic sociological definitions in social
> speak. For instance, saying that black people can't be racist toward white people
> because whites are the race with most of the power. Or white priviledge. Both of
> those are so misused because they don't realize that neither of those apply to an
> individual. They are macro (large group) terms.

This is where I disagree. Well, agree to the extent that black people can hate white people and discriminate against them individually. There are black people that HATE white people. This is a truth. However, the structure, the very nuanced structure of white supremacy where whiteness is the default in our society, and where white people have kind of had a head start in gaining capital is what folks are alluding to. I believe this is true myself. It is also a truth in our society. Hence why reverse discrimination and racism is not happening in broad definition. Has black or brown person discriminated against a white person? Yes. However, it is not a systemic problem. This is not to say that the deck is so stacked that black people can't succeed we know that to be untrue. What I mean is that the deck is so stacked that most white children grow up on a different rung of privilege and opportunity.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Aug(#19)
@theJAwwww Did you know that there have been studies that show people are less likely to hire a black person than a white person based on a perceived race as decided by a first name on a resume or work application? In some of the studies, white men with criminal records were more likely to be hired than black men without.

That is the type of stuff that concerns me.
Discrimination in the workplace, lack of minorities in political positions and high up in Fortune 500 companies, children being bullied in school because of their skin color. Someone being offended by what someone says indirectly to them or about their race, gender, etc. is not of the greatest importance to me.

For instance, when I graduate, I want to work in the criminal justice system to do my small part to help correct the way that those convicted of crimes (disproportionately African-Americans) are treated in prison and by society. I don't really have time to worry if someone I don't know was personally offended by something someone they don't know said.

whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug(#20)
Karaiya wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> Karaiya wrote:
> |>> Racism itself is a very nuanced topic. Racism comes in so many forms just like
>> other
> |>> human cultural and societal behaviors and systems of oppression. Passive and
>> overt
> |>> racism. Systemic Racism and Classism which often intersect. Imperialism, colonialism,
> |>> militarism, and mass incarceration.
>>
>> Agreed. People also need to stop using academic sociological definitions in social
>> speak. For instance, saying that black people can't be racist toward white people
>> because whites are the race with most of the power. Or white priviledge. Both
> of
>> those are so misused because they don't realize that neither of those apply to
> an
>> individual. They are macro (large group) terms.
>
> This is where I disagree. Well, agree to the extent that black people can hate white
> people and discriminate against them individually. There are black people that HATE
> white people. This is a truth. However, the structure, the very nuanced structure
> of white supremacy where whiteness is the default in our society, and where white
> people have kind of had a head start in gaining capital is what folks are alluding
> to. I believe this is true myself. It is also a truth in our society. This is not
> to say that the deck is so stacked that black people can't succeed we know that to
> be untrue. What I mean is that the deck is so stacked that most white children grow
> up on a different rung of privilege and opportunity.
>

Racism means believing (or acting on the principle) that one group is in ferior to another based on physical (this part is arguable) characteristics. The sociological definition (largely influenced by social thinkers such a Du Bois and others) applies to entire groups. Meaning that white racism against blacks, as a whole, is far more damaging and important than racism of blacks against whites, as whole. However, as an individual, a black person can be just as racist toward a white person as a white person can toward a black person. We should not evaluate individuals like that based on their racial backgrounds.

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
14-Aug(#21)
whitefire wrote:
> @theJAwwww Did you know that there have been studies that show people are less likely
> to hire a black person than a white person based on a perceived race as decided by
> a first name on a resume or work application? In some of the studies, white men with
> criminal records were more likely to be hired than black men without.
>
> That is the type of stuff that concerns me.
> Discrimination in the workplace, lack of minorities in political positions and high
> up in Fortune 500 companies, children being bullied in school because of their skin
> color. Someone being offended by what someone says indirectly to them or about their
> race, gender, etc. is not of the greatest importance to me.
>
> For instance, when I graduate, I want to work in the criminal justice system to do
> my small part to help correct the way that those convicted of crimes (disproportionately
> African-Americans) are treated in prison and by society.
>
>

And that's your prerogative for sure. The things that concern you should concern you, and anyone with a level head haha.

However, like I said, it's really not about what concerns you (or me in this instance) when it comes to cultural appropriation. There are many people who have a valid right to be offended about how their culture is portrayed in the US. While it won't have a direct effect on any one individual at a time, that type of thing does have a lasting affect on the culture as a whole (which then in turn does affect individuals).

It's part of the reason Native Americans aren't so hot with terms and caricatures from their culture being used as mascots for sports teams when those are more commonly reserved for animals. The Hawks, The Bruins, The Chiefs, The Bobcats, The Indians. Which of these is not like the others, you know? Nowadays, I'd wager the majority of Americans would link Native American culture to sports teams or casinos, while the truly vile of them would unfortunately link Native Americans to the animals that correspond with other teams from different sport leagues. Things like this do sway public perception. It does have an effect, and the ripples don't just disappear.

So no, it wouldn't be any concern to you, and I really can't claim it's a huge concern to me personally - but there are people who have a very valid right to be offended by these sorts of things. Acknowledging that doesn't automatically void your other concerns.

But I need to hit the hay. I appreciate the civil conversation, and rejuvenating a bit of my faith in the possibility of a politics forum on the ol' TZ.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 14-Aug(#22)
whitefire wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> whitefire wrote:
> |>> Karaiya wrote:
>> |>> Racism itself is a very nuanced topic. Racism comes in so many forms just
> like
> |>> other
>> |>> human cultural and societal behaviors and systems of oppression. Passive
> and
> |>> overt
>> |>> racism. Systemic Racism and Classism which often intersect. Imperialism,
> colonialism,
>> |>> militarism, and mass incarceration.
> |>>
> |>> Agreed. People also need to stop using academic sociological definitions in social
> |>> speak. For instance, saying that black people can't be racist toward white people
> |>> because whites are the race with most of the power. Or white priviledge. Both
>> of
> |>> those are so misused because they don't realize that neither of those apply to
>> an
> |>> individual. They are macro (large group) terms.
>>
>> This is where I disagree. Well, agree to the extent that black people can hate
> white
>> people and discriminate against them individually. There are black people that
> HATE
>> white people. This is a truth. However, the structure, the very nuanced structure
>> of white supremacy where whiteness is the default in our society, and where white
>> people have kind of had a head start in gaining capital is what folks are alluding
>> to. I believe this is true myself. It is also a truth in our society. This is
> not
>> to say that the deck is so stacked that black people can't succeed we know that
> to
>> be untrue. What I mean is that the deck is so stacked that most white children
> grow
>> up on a different rung of privilege and opportunity.
>>
>
> Racism means believing (or acting on the principle) that one group is in ferior to
> another based on physical (this part is arguable) characteristics. The sociological
> definition (largely influenced by social thinkers such a Du Bois and others) applies
> to entire groups. Meaning that white racism against blacks, as a whole, is far more
> damaging and important than racism of blacks against whites, as whole. However, as
> an individual, a black person can be just as racist toward a white person as a white
> person can toward a black person. We should not evaluate individuals like that based
> on their racial backgrounds.
>
>
This is where we are on the same page. I agree with this too.

Regarding your comment about discrimination based on names. That is something that my family including myself has experienced and still do often. Not just by our names but also by the way we look or how our voice sounds. For example, no matter where I have worked in any place there comes a point in which a white person asks me my race. Or "what am I?" "where am I from". I believe you also have a mixed race daughter to that has experienced this before. While a persons curiosity about racial ambiguity can be benign it is also a way to pigeon hole a person in a category. My experience is so that white people can be comfortable with what they say. Unfortunately, if I didn't tell them I am black or told they say things that are anti-black or anti-asian pacific islander. I've had the experience in which a person say something offensive about a latino person and when they are pressed they say something as to "why are you offended, you're not Mexican, or whatever."

This is bothersome to me. It leaves me and others with the assumption that if someone says something about me that is offensive if I'm not in the space no one will address it or challenge. This is a societal problem. We don't have to be part of the group being discriminated against to take a stand.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
14-Aug(#23)
theJAwwww wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> @theJAwwww Did you know that there have been studies that show people are less
> likely
>> to hire a black person than a white person based on a perceived race as decided
> by
>> a first name on a resume or work application? In some of the studies, white men
> with
>> criminal records were more likely to be hired than black men without.
>>
>> That is the type of stuff that concerns me.
>> Discrimination in the workplace, lack of minorities in political positions and
> high
>> up in Fortune 500 companies, children being bullied in school because of their
> skin
>> color. Someone being offended by what someone says indirectly to them or about
> their
>> race, gender, etc. is not of the greatest importance to me.
>>
>> For instance, when I graduate, I want to work in the criminal justice system to
> do
>> my small part to help correct the way that those convicted of crimes (disproportionately
>> African-Americans) are treated in prison and by society.
>>
>>
>
> And that's your prerogative for sure. The things that concern you should concern
> you, and anyone with a level head haha.
>
> However, like I said, it's really not about what concerns you (or me in this
> instance) when it comes to cultural appropriation. There are many people who have
> a valid right to be offended about how their culture is portrayed in the US. While
> it won't have a direct effect on any one individual at a time, that type of thing
> does have a lasting affect on the culture as a whole (which then in turn does
> affect individuals).
>
> It's part of the reason Native Americans aren't so hot with terms and caricatures
> from their culture being used as mascots for sports teams when those are more commonly
> reserved for animals. The Hawks, The Bruins, The Chiefs, The Bobcats, The Indians.
> Which of these is not like the others, you know? Nowadays, I'd wager the majority
> of Americans would link Native American culture to sports teams or casinos, while
> the truly vile of them would unfortunately link Native Americans to the animals that
> correspond with other teams from different sport leagues. Things like this do sway
> public perception. It does have an effect, and the ripples don't just disappear.
>
>
> So no, it wouldn't be any concern to you, and I really can't claim it's a huge concern
> to me personally - but there are people who have a very valid right to be offended
> by these sorts of things. Acknowledging that doesn't automatically void your other
> concerns.
>
> But I need to hit the hay. I appreciate the civil conversation, and rejuvenating
> a bit of my faith in the possibility of a politics forum on the ol' TZ.
>
>

Cultural appropriation vs Cultural Exchange. Now that is a large discussion within racism right? For me, somethings about cultural appropriation are not okay and somethings are really not a big deal. In the sense of black hair, indigenous peoples, sports teams changing their names, and white washing acting roles. Yes, those are big deals for those groups like mine.

Where I am less willing to get behind is food asian and latin fusion foods. Also, I don't have a problem with white people taking part in cultural practices outside of their own. However, when they are distasteful or try to profit from it is when it is problematic.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Aug(#24)
@theJAwwww

Goodnight (you can read this in the morning if you like). There are harmful stereotypes perpetrated by the media that can have a negative impact on how the public views a particular culture. I agree with that. I just think outrage is largely misplaced in many cases, but as I've stated, yes, this is all, of course, very subjective in nature.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
14-Aug(#25)
I created a thread for this to not clog up the Newsroom. Osiris works hard to make sure we keep up with approval ratings. We should discuss race in a dedicated thread if we choose to.
https://gametz.com/Politics/race-religion-talk-tim...
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#26)
Trump is noodling whether or not to pardon Joe Arpaio.

"I am seriously considering a pardon for Sheriff Arpaio," Trump told Fox News on Sunday. "He has done a lot in the fight against illegal immigration. He's a great American patriot and I hate to see what has happened to him."

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#28)
whitefire wrote:
> Let's face it, if the same word is widely used to describe someone |>who thinks all blacks should die or go back to Africa as someone |>a parent who lets her white daughter dress in a Mulan dress for |>Halloween, the word has kind of lost it's meaning.

I love Mulan, this is a problem? Not just Halloween, either!
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 15-Aug(#29)
Osiris wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> Let's face it, if the same word is widely used to describe someone |>who thinks
> all blacks should die or go back to Africa as someone |>a parent who lets her white
> daughter dress in a Mulan dress for |>Halloween, the word has kind of lost it's meaning.
>
>
> I love Mulan, this is a problem? Not just Halloween, either!

This is far from an isolated opinion. I've seen tons of these things. There are plenty of examples of people posting pictures online of their kids wearing a Mulan, Moana, Jasmine, etc. costume and being called racist for letting their kids wear that.

It also doesn't work both ways. It's ok for an Asian-American girl to wear a Rapunzel or Cinderella costume.

These examples are more anecdotal and ridiculous but not uncommon. It's like when they say it's ok for black people to say the N word but not non-blacks. If it's a racist word, maybe nobody should say it... Context means everything.

You know what's racist? Exclusion, bigotry, hatred, mockery, assumptions based on skin color, and belittling. Like, when my daughter who looks as white as me (but my wife, her mom, is Chinese) wasn't allowed to be in the picture at her school for Asian-American student day and came home crying.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why-cant-dress-up...

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#30)
whitefire wrote:
>> I love Mulan, this is a problem? Not just Halloween, either!
>
> Like, when my daughter who looks as white as me (but
> my wife, her mom, is Chinese) wasn't allowed to be in the picture |>at her school for
> Asian-American student day and came home crying.

And I would assume you addressed that with school admin?
Teachable moment fershure they would like to know about, the rest of the noise mentioned is irrelevant.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#31)
I would've rained down fire and fury the likes of which that school had never seen. But as a Daddy of two young girls, I don't mind admitting to getting triggered by crying little girls sometimes.

whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 15-Aug(#32)
Osiris wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
> |>> I love Mulan, this is a problem? Not just Halloween, either!
>>
>> Like, when my daughter who looks as white as me (but
>> my wife, her mom, is Chinese) wasn't allowed to be in the picture |>at her school
> for
>> Asian-American student day and came home crying.
>
> And I would assume you addressed that with school admin?

Yeah. They couldn't care less. Same thing when she was bullied (at one point it got pretty bad) for her blonde hair and light skin. She goes to a school that is predonimantly Asian and Latino. When the bullying happened, and they didn't care, I asked them if they would have the same reaction is she teased the Hispanic child for his darker skin and black hair. The PC principal had no response.

> Teachable moment fershure they would like to know about, the rest of the noise mentioned
> is irrelevant.
>

Yeah, she learned a lot about the real world from those moments. The best thing you can do is try to give them coping mechanisms and teach them how to deal with situtations like that, but it's hard as a parent to see them go through that, especially when you know it likely came from the parents, and you work so hard to teach your child acceptance and love instead of hate.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 15-Aug(#33)
She'll learn about it my kids are white passing too. I'm a mixed race person too. As traumatic and fudgeed up these experiences may be for her. I promise you she will benefit more so than those Latino and Asian children. It may not seem that way for you and your daughter now. But with white supremacy and racism comes colorism. Her racial ambiguity and being able pass as white will be an advantage for her. Trust me.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
* 15-Aug(#34)
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/15/politics/trump-c...

(Edit: Alternate link in case the video is moved)

The Alt-Left. You seriously can't make this crap up. So of course, he did.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
* 15-Aug(#35)
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/08/15/...

Video of the whole thing. The good thing about Trump is that we don't even need to show any out of context videos to make him look bad, he can do it all on his own.

He's fudging unhinged. FOR FUDGE'S SAKE, CAN'T YOU SEE THAT?
Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug(#36)
Foxhack wrote:
>
>
> The Alt-Left. You seriously can't make this crap up. So of course, he did.
People have made this crap up for months what are you talking about?
image
He pretty much just regurgitated a meme from reddit.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
15-Aug(#37)
So you're going to say you're absolutely fine with everything he said in the video.

This is the hill you want to die on. THIS.
Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug(#38)
Foxhack wrote:
> So you're going to say you're absolutely fine with everything he said in the video.
> This is the hill you want to die on. THIS.
I'm not going to go into a blind rage at every single stupid thing he does, if that's what you're asking. Frankly i just find it funny that they tricked him into talking about a non-existant meme.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
* 15-Aug(#39)
Watch. The. Video.

You should not be okay with what he's doing, what he's saying, or how he's behaving.

He wasn't "tricked into saying a meme." He was parroting a term that Sean Hannity has used since the end of last year. (Edit: Got my dates mixed up.)
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
15-Aug(#40)
Teen shattered the Holocaust memorial in town yesterday, got tackled by two other teens. Wondering where the outrage over destroyed property is now.

Also, from an apparent actual resident in Charlottesville, which makes Trump blaming "both sides" for the violence even more blatant tip toeing:

"There seems to be a perception from people outside of Charlottesville that what is going on here is two opposing groups coming to town and fighting some ideological battle that has gotten messy. That is not what is happening here. What is happening here is that several hate groups from the extreme right have come together under the "unite the right" banner here in our town and basically started acting as terrorists. This may seem like an exaggeration but it's not.

A church service was held over because they had surrounded the building and police had to disperse them. People had to be escorted to their cars. My friend was there with her daughter. Everywhere they meet, businesses close. We had drive by shootings yesterday from a van marked kkk.

A car plowed into a huge group of people. I'm sure you saw that on the newsfeeds. What you probably didn't see is that some of those people were on their way back from helping to repel a white supremacist march to predominately black housing development a few blocks away where they were attempting home invasions. I guess they were unfamiliar with the neighborhood. The residents repelled that one before antifa got there but there is some video of the alt-right folks getting run off on the daily progress twitter feed, if you're interested.

So, basically, what I'd like you to understand is, this IS NOT two side egging eachother on to unavoidable violence for more attention. This is one side of terrorists declaring that they can and will hold a town hostage (they've been saying it for over a month now, actually) and the town responding to that threat. The car that killed and injured people yesterday? Ohio tags. The medic tents (which treated both sides... turns out the alt right erst didn't bring any medics. Guess they planned on doing all the injuring), water bottles, snacks, shade tents (all volunteer, donations, none shut down by police... all manned by that radical left you keep hearing about) yeah, we all live here. I saw a lot of people I knew yesterday, none of them were speaking for unite the right. None of them were escalating violence, most of them were offering some kind of aid and defending."

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE MEDIA IS REPORTING.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
15-Aug(#41)
To sum it up, there is a bunch of radical right wing groups taking Charlottesville hostage to push their hillbilly racist ideology, and those "counter protesters" we've heard about are majority local people fighting back.



Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
15-Aug(#42)
@MikeyWhoa those leftist terrorists didnt wait for the Govenor to have those monument torn down I saw today back in your state.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#43)
Karaiya wrote:
> @MikeyWhoa those leftist terrorists didnt wait for the Govenor to have those monument
> torn down I saw today back in your state.

Can't find the info on this. I've read about the planned and currently undated Nazi protest, but nothing on the statues removal. Lexington papers are reporting on the momentum to have them removed speeding up (as of 6:50 PM at least). But nothing on them being taken/torn down. A source perhaps, or maybe a confusion on the city?


Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug(#44)
Couldn't find anything on them tearing a statue down in kentucky, but they did vandalize one there.
http://www.wlwt.com/article/crews-working-to-clean...
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 15-Aug(#45)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> @MikeyWhoa those leftist terrorists didnt wait for the Govenor to have those monument
>> torn down I saw today back in your state.
>
> Can't find the info on this. I've read about the planned and currently undated Nazi
> protest, but nothing on the statues removal. Lexington papers are reporting on >">the momentum to have them removed speeding up (as of 6:50 PM at least). But
> nothing on them being taken/torn down. A source perhaps, or maybe a confusion on
> the city?
>
>
>

Thats because I was incorrect. It was Durham NC. It waant just her but several folks. She was also arrested I believe and charged.

https://www.google.com/amp/abc11.com/amp/politics/...






Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#46)
thanks for the link, appreciate it. I am OK with it, legal defense fund for Thompson and others shouldnt be a problem.
I wonder if others involved will come forward voluntarily. Interested in the felony arguments.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
15-Aug(#47)
Justice Department demands details on visitors to anti-Trump website:
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/justice-departme...

More violations of privacy in an attempt to silence opposers.

We're well on the way, folks.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
* 15-Aug(#48)
Oh and the White House released a news briefing. It's very telling.

"The President was entirely correct".

You should ALL be very worried instead of passing this off as "librul h8te".
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
16-Aug(#49)
theJAwwww wrote:
> Justice Department demands details on visitors to anti-Trump website:
>
> More violations of privacy in an attempt to silence opposers.
>
> We're well on the way, folks.

Man. Figured it was too early for this blatant Big Brother crap.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Aug(#50)
So much winning
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 16-Aug(#51)
All the winning. And if you think otherwise, we'll find you jerk.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 16-Aug(#52)
I think the Trump historical legacy has been set, he won't be happy with history's judgment.

Normally you would expect a prez to be able to reverse the negatives of the first year, but this guy just refuses to work constructively with others to create a legislative and governing record to be proud of.

Folks can blame the deep state and the media, but in practical American governing, there has to be an attempt at consensus building to accomplish things.

We have NO indication that Trump will ever even try this approach.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 16-Aug(#53)
Scots wrote:
> So much winning

Something I was wondering about with your initial post on the Charlottesville situation.

In that post you make a distinction that the white supremacist groups in question "aren't conservative." To which I agree, they don't reflect the entire conservative party.

However in the same denouncing post, you make a broad statement insinuating the glorification of radical groups on the other side, like Antifa, as perpetrated by the left - as if that would be as major an issue as some conservatives actively and openly backing the alt-right groups preaching murder.

Why is it so easy to denounce these hate groups on the right because they don't match your ideals, but so hard to acknowledge that the majority in the left are also denouncing the acts of Antifa because they don't match theirs? Because they are, and there are numerous examples of that.

I don't hold violence against nazis as too much of a concern because they preach murder, but I'm not for any organized groups out for blood either. But I keep seeing this double standard like NO one on the left is denouncing Antifa when I'd say the amount is at least equal to that of conservatives denouncing white supremacy.

The reason I bring it up is in response to you "winning" comment. I'm sure it was sarcasm or you'll claim it was, but it makes the double standard you presented all the more highlighted. Despite coming in a small blurb at the end of your post, it still works to nullify your sentiments made prior in the post. It still reads like you refusing to put the full blame on the armed racists holding a town hostage, especially now that it's becoming increasingly more clear that Antifa's presence during this particular Charlottesville incident was more-or-less a fabrication of the media.

I'm just wondering what the deal is there, and if you acknowledge this double standard that admittedly exists on both sides of the spectrum.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Aug(#54)
Yes, of course sarcasm - obviously. No, didn't say no one on the left has denounced Antifa. yes
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 16-Aug(#55)
Oh I know ya didn't say it bud, but it was insinuated by the way you specifically point out how all conservatives aren't white supremacists but then present the broad generalization about the left as another primary point in your post. Just wanted to make sure you recognized the distinction as it's an important one to make for anybody who doesn't want to half-assed enable this racist behavior. yes

And I honestly wish I could say your joke was obvious, but alas. Glad to know it was a joke though. Cause we're all losing hard atm haha
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Aug(#56)
Glad you're glad. yes
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
16-Aug(#57)
Gladder you're glad. yes
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Aug(#58)
yes
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
16-Aug(#59)
You okay man??
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 16-Aug(#60)
Yeah bud! In the words of DMX, I'm just happy with the simple things and appreciating the things that God gave me.
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
16-Aug(#61)
Lol DMX reference, atta boy
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
16-Aug(#62)
In these immortal words: AR, AR, AR-AR AR, AR
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
16-Aug(#63)
Just FYI DMX is addicted to crack.

Missile
Gold Good Trader
16-Aug(#64)
Karaiya wrote:
> Just FYI DMX is addicted to crack.
Yeah, but most celebrities are.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
16-Aug(#65)
LEFT: WaPo report that Lewandowski got emails during the campaign about Russia meetings RIGHT: Lewandowski's blanket denial from months ago

https://twitter.com/Marshall_Cohen/status/89721755...

Uh oh, Spaghetti-Os...
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
16-Aug(#66)
fake and gay obv.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Aug(#67)
All news is fake news, but it is on a spectrum.

MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
* 16-Aug(#68)
Edit: My dumb ass forgot the link.

Change of pace.

Dash cam footage was released of Charnesia Corley enduringly a humiliating 11 minute nude cavity search. The police officers smelled pot. All charges against Corley were dropped.

The new footage of the encounter, released Monday, might help. The graphic video shows Corley being subjected to an 11-minute-long strip and cavity search, during which she was handcuffed and stripped naked from the waist down.

"They then took Miss Corley and placed both ankles behind her ears spread-eagle position and started to search for something in Miss Corley's cavity in her vaginal area," her attorney, Sam Cammack, told Fox 26 Houston.


The link is an article. I'm not going to link the video because it's a little iffy on whether or not bill would want it posted here. A simple google search should suffice. It's disgusting, though not too graphic. I didn't finish it.

Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
17-Aug(#69)
Who the hell searches a vagina for 11 minutes?
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
17-Aug(#70)
Wow, this is the first I'm hearing this. What a terrible thing for a citizen to experience. Apparently, the officers were cleared and they are still employed.

Thanks for being thoughtful about posting the video.

Gypsy
GameTZ Gold Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
17-Aug(#71)
Karaiya wrote:
> Apparently, the officers were cleared and they are still employed.
>
>

Despicable but not surprising.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
17-Aug(#72)
Hello, Gypsy havent seen you around before. Welcome to the political forum. I also love Macross

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
17-Aug(#73)
I starting a GoFundMe (kickstart idk?) for the purpose of erecting a statue of THE DONALD on pubic land! Who's in?

I would wait for THE WALL, but hopes are not high.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
17-Aug(#74)
Oh no - terrorist attack in Barcelona. Seeing reports of a van driven into a crowd of people. Looks like deaths and injuries, and maybe a couple of armed people have gone into a restaurant now...
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
17-Aug(#75)
Now seeing at least 10-13 people killed. Truly horrible. Do not go on Twitter, as people are positing horrible videos of the deceased in the streets.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
* 17-Aug(#76)
Catalan police now have a suspect in custody. I'm hoping that this is just some random wacko instead of something worse. :(

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/van-plo...
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
17-Aug(#77)
Missouri Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal has called for Trump's assassination.
Foxhack
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
* 17-Aug(#78)
Scots wrote:
> Missouri Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal has called for Trump's assassination.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/17/ma...

She has apologized for writing that, but I don't think she can do anything but resign now.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
17-Aug(#79)
YOU CAN'T SAY THAT CRAP.

MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
17-Aug(#80)
Scots wrote:
> Now seeing at least 10-13 people killed. Truly horrible. Do not go on Twitter, as
> people are positing horrible videos of the deceased in the streets.


Fudge those pricks. (Sorry, I know language like that isn't your thing, but it's fitting.)

But a bit of hopeful news, it looks like Spanish police thwarted a second attempted attack. Good for them.


Topic   The Newsroom