Politics

Topic   Podcast, Video, and Book Recommendations [the 2nd]

ninesalone
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* 7-Mar-2018(#1)
Post them here.

This series has been really good. Watched this last night with my wife and it is the best one by far. The first half is very revealing and the second half restored my faith in humanity a bit. I wanted to quote so much of what was said, but it would have been too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pN6ZgGRfQU&t=0s


Feeb
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* 7-Mar-2018(#2)
Would be much more interesting and informative if Crowder attempted to bring a mediator who was qualified in the field they discuss- would remove some of the obvious frustration and seemingly pre-arranged bromance.

Lol @ how long it took someone to say black people are only 8% of the population. This should have been the very first sentence from someone's mouth as soon as we QUICKLY devolved into a race whine. We have a representative democracy that over 50% of believes we should be more represented by LGBT, black, name your minority. Doesn't make any sense at all. Not yet. Maybe never. Now when will someone bring to attention that our representative Congress is somewhere around 92% Christian...

These are always fun to watch though. Some daddies need to slap their kids and take away their education funds. Kids B dum.
Feeb
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7-Mar-2018(#3)
Check that- about 13% total pop is black. He was specifying black males I believe. Regardless- 77% white. I'd say they're trying.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Mar-2018(#4)
I agree. I hate it when people look at things in terms of raw numbers instead of ratios. Right now, I have an exam to study for. I had to fudging actually write down that it's a myth that most people on welfare are black (basically she's saying minorities) because more whites than blacks are on welfare. What a useless fudging "fact." Listen, of course welfare isn't all blacks/other minorities, and we can definitely argue WHY blacks are on welfare at higher rates than whites, but stupid crap like that just pisses me off, and if anything, it IGNORES the problems that people are trying to address. I don't care that there are more whites than blacks in prison either. Want to know why? Idiocy.

That said, if you just watch these things for entertainment value, that's fine, but the premise of this is clearly ridiculous. I highly fudging doubt he's going to change his mind, how do we know how it's edited, it's a fudging YouTube video, and the guy had time to prepare, the other people didn't. That's not a debate. At least I would present logical arguments though.

On a side note, if I may discuss the overall topic a bit. I get what white privilege is, and why people feel the need to discuss it in academic settings, but I hate that dems/libs always bring it up and make it a public issue. It embarrasses me. In my view, it's a macro concept that should NEVER be applied to individuals because people are too complex to boil them down to individual characteristics based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. That's stereotyping. Arguing it as an academic concept, I would destroy him where he stands.

Now, Ben Shapiro, although we disagree on a lot: that guy is fudging intelligent. I could come up with a lot of evidence to back my claims, but he has incredibly well thought out rebuttals, and unlike most of these people who are clearly ignorant or just pander, he actually understands everything he says. I pay attention to him.

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
8-Mar-2018(#5)
Specific instance:
All parents worry about their 17 year olds driving to the movies on Friday night, but black parents have not only the common parental concerns, but a separate fear of an encounter with law enforcement that is different from other families. Yes?

What are other specifics about the white privilege discussion that are troubling or invalid?
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Mar-2018(#6)
Osiris wrote:
> Specific instance:
> All parents worry about their 17 year olds driving to the movies on Friday night,
> but black parents have not only the common parental concerns, but a separate fear
> of an encounter with law enforcement that is different from other families. Yes?
>
> What are other specifics about the white privilege discussion that are troubling
> or invalid?

No, not all black people do that, and many white people worry about things too.

As a whole, yes, black people have to worry more about law enforcement and the CJ system than whites, as a whole. You have no idea what individual people feel or experience though. Trying to apply theoretical concepts to individuals doesn't work.

Feeb
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* 8-Mar-2018(#7)
I believe there is clearly unspoken favoritism to white males in many fields- achievement versus compensation studies have shown that many times more accomplished non-male, non-white are rewarded less for their superior work. This is not a universal or everyday thing.

Racism exists. "White privelage" is a concept that while definitely played up to a bullcrap degree- has existed and had to be revoked. You cannot ignore the fact that one race literally considered the other as property in the recent past. This has very obvious implications to any who is not an apologist.

On that note- in my daily experience some of the black people I deal with are extremely racist toward me. I had one lady tell me she "didn't trust no white man" and had me take pictures with her camera of me vaccinating her dog. That was a nasty feeling. There is a clear double standard with racism. At least so far as I have experienced it. I cannot speak for the life experiences of others.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
8-Mar-2018(#8)
how old was that lady?
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
8-Mar-2018(#9)
I am surprised that anyone would think the fear that black parents have for possible detention, arrest or physical harm to black teenage drivers would be regarded by them as theoretical, or that white parents consider that situation as possible as black parents do.
Feeb
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8-Mar-2018(#10)
Probably mid 30s. I have older white men ask to see me all the time because they don't want to see a woman doctor.
Feeb
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* 8-Mar-2018(#11)
Osiris wrote:
> I am surprised that anyone would think the fear that black parents have for possible
> detention, arrest or physical harm to black teenage drivers would be regarded by
> them as theoretical, or that white parents consider that situation as possible as
> black parents do.

I'd call that fear of racism. Black or white if your children are living in certain places you fear for their safety. In north Georgia were I grew up kids of any race were much more likely to encounter meth etc from white rural people. My mom was scared of the "trailer park trash." That's what she called them.

Although her advice to me - find or call a cop if someone offers you drugs- maybe she says different if she's black. Would still be the proper advice.
ninesalone
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* 8-Mar-2018(#12)
whitefire wrote:

> That said, if you just watch these things for entertainment value, that's fine, but
> the premise of this is clearly ridiculous.

I disagree. I want to see more stuff like this.

>I highly fudging doubt he's going to change
> his mind

He seems pretty genuine. Call me naive, but if that Bernie supporter had shown him actual statistics to back up what she was saying, I honestly think he'd concede. The problem lies with the fact that she can't because she's wrong.

> how do we know how it's edited, it's a fudging YouTube video, and the guy
> had time to prepare, the other people didn't.

This one is fully unedited. Everyone carries a phone with a camera. If he was being deceptive, it wouldn't take long for that to be exposed.

>That's not a debate.

True, it's a conversation. Students volunteer to sit down and discuss.

> On a side note, if I may discuss the overall topic a bit. I get what white privilege
> is, and why people feel the need to discuss it in academic settings, but I hate that
> dems/libs always bring it up and make it a public issue. It embarrasses me. In my
> view, it's a macro concept that should NEVER be applied to individuals because people
> are too complex to boil them down to individual characteristics based on race, gender,
> sexual orientation, etc. That's stereotyping.

Yes it is. The topic was actually "male privilege." It went to "white male privilege" very quickly. The reason I thought the first half was revealing is because of something I've talked about here before. The people who rail on about race and privilege are actually some of the most racist and intolerant people. That black woman wasn't going to change her mind either and was quite racist. "Your white opinion is irrelevant." Wow.

>Arguing it as an academic concept,
> I would destroy him where he stands.

There are a lot of concepts that are false. Privilege is real. If you are born to a family where your parents are together, they are both educated, and have decent income.... That's privilege. Nothing to do with race. Telling black folks that they're going to meet resistance from racism at every corner when trying to make something of their life is very harmful.

Did you catch the last 20 minutes where the guys are talking about affirmative action, etc? I thought that was really good.

> Now, Ben Shapiro, although we disagree on a lot: that guy is fudging intelligent.
> I could come up with a lot of evidence to back my claims, but he has incredibly well
> thought out rebuttals, and unlike most of these people who are clearly ignorant or
> just pander, he actually understands everything he says. I pay attention to him.

I thought Crowder did too. He knew what he was talking about and the people who volunteered to sit down were confident they did too. Shapiro is good.
Feeb
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* 8-Mar-2018(#13)
If the girl knew anything about the anti-suffrage movement- she was more correct than she even wanted to be in some of her ignorance. Anti-suffrage was a political movement fueled by the big business of mostly the south- at the time this equivalated to white men. The reasoning was that women were too soft to be allowed to have voting power- businesses feared that women would regulate alcohol, limit working hours etc. because of their maternal instincts. Sexism. Not racism. The arguments that only a few radical women wanted voting rights was a political corollary. Choosing which women got rights to vote based on any selective system was deemed not possible, but was a discussed option. They did not believe at first that every woman should vote. In fact, women of property owning families could vote in certain cases already. The fact that the government which eventually voted for the 19th was white males is non-sequitor- and even supports the whole idea that women needed representatives.

You may argue that it's the natural order for men to institute government and therefore their right to run it- but the fact that this is an idea that is slowly fading suggests the powers that kept it in place were not of a natural type.
Feeb
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* 8-Mar-2018(#14)
Women's effect on the prohibition vote revealed that the southern businessmen were correct in their fears. Women taking such a large roll in keeping the daily functions of the country afloat during the world war gave them the fuel for a quid pro quo- they had shown some mettle.

https://www.loc.gov/collections/national-american-...
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Mar-2018(#15)
ninesalone wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>
>> That said, if you just watch these things for entertainment value, that's fine,
> but
>> the premise of this is clearly ridiculous.
>
> I disagree. I want to see more stuff like this.

I think it's fun, but I don't believe he goes into it with an open mind. I really don't. I've watched a bit of his stuff, and I would 't call him open-minded.

>
> |>I highly fudging doubt he's going to change
>> his mind
>
> He seems pretty genuine. Call me naive, but if that Bernie supporter had shown him
> actual statistics to back up what she was saying, I honestly think he'd concede.
> The problem lies with the fact that she can't because she's wrong.

I don't think he would. Also, how can people present statistics/data? It's not a prepped debate.

>
>> how do we know how it's edited, it's a fudging YouTube video, and the guy
>> had time to prepare, the other people didn't.
>
> This one is fully unedited. Everyone carries a phone with a camera. If he was being
> deceptive, it wouldn't take long for that to be exposed.

Maybe, maybe not. I doubt he'd post something that made him look bad.

>
> |>That's not a debate.
>
> True, it's a conversation. Students volunteer to sit down and discuss.

He prepares as if it's a debate. Plus, I assume this is what he does for a living? That surely makes a difference.


whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
8-Mar-2018(#16)
ninesalone wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> Now, Ben Shapiro, although we disagree on a lot: that guy is fudging intelligent.
>> I could come up with a lot of evidence to back my claims, but he has incredibly
> well
>> thought out rebuttals, and unlike most of these people who are clearly ignorant
> or
>> just pander, he actually understands everything he says. I pay attention to him.

> I thought Crowder did too. He knew what he was talking about and the people who volunteered
> to sit down were confident they did too. Shapiro is good.

Again, I've listened to him a bit. He definitely panders. I'm not saying that everyone doesn't pander to their base a bit, but he takes it pretty far.

I also don't think he understands much of what he says from an academic perspective, like Ben Shapiro seems to. Is he educated in the social sciences or law like Shapiro is? He doesn't seem like it, but I could be wrong.

ninesalone
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8-Mar-2018(#17)
whitefire wrote:

> I think it's fun, but I don't believe he goes into it with an open mind. I really
> don't. I've watched a bit of his stuff, and I would 't call him open-minded.

Fair enough, I won't argue on that as that's your own interpretation. It is entertaining/fun.


> I don't think he would. Also, how can people present statistics/data? It's not a
> prepped debate.

Well, she did seem to have a retort for everything he asserted. She went to her phone for definitions and statistics. This sounds like something I would do, except I'd use FBI statistics and sources that aren't biased as hell as she was doing.


> He prepares as if it's a debate. Plus, I assume this is what he does for a living?
> That surely makes a difference.

That's fair. How would you make this better? Feeb mentioned having some sort of moderator there.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 8-Mar-2018(#18)
ninesalone wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>
>> I think it's fun, but I don't believe he goes into it with an open mind. I really
>> don't. I've watched a bit of his stuff, and I would 't call him open-minded.
>
> Fair enough, I won't argue on that as that's your own interpretation. It is entertaining/fun.
>
>
>
>> I don't think he would. Also, how can people present statistics/data? It's not
> a
>> prepped debate.
>
> Well, she did seem to have a retort for everything he asserted. She went to her phone
> for definitions and statistics. This sounds like something I would do, except I'd
> use FBI statistics and sources that aren't biased as hell as she was doing.
>
>
>> He prepares as if it's a debate. Plus, I assume this is what he does for a living?
>> That surely makes a difference.
>
> That's fair. How would you make this better? Feeb mentioned having some sort of moderator
> there.

I won't know that I could make it better because for it to be more even and make more sense, it wouldn't be what it is (entertaining).

As far as more equal, have a challenging opponent. For instance, many people don't believe there's a racial caste system in the criminal justice system. On one side, you can have some SJW screaming at you that you're racist for saying that or can't have a valid opinion due to your white privilege, or you could have Michelle Alexander (a lot of people use her book for BS, but it actually makes a really strong argument with facts/data and tons of evidence and logic to support her claims).

I don't know. Maybe liberals don't use facts and evidence anymore. Am I the only one left who finds this overuse of pathos and confirmation bias disturbing? Sometimes, I don't even know if I can call myself a social liberal anymore.

Feeb
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* 8-Mar-2018(#19)
It's not that liberals don't use facts- they are lazy and expect what they see or hear to be supported. Just as bad as calling something factuallly supported "fake" IMHO.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
10-Mar-2018(#20)
Retronauts!
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
10-Mar-2018(#21)
Wouldn't it be simple if most citizens could be boxed into one or the other extreme, then each side could just make fun of the other like here.

The happy truth is that the vast majority of Americans hold views on social, economic, foreign policy and other political questions from all sides of the spectrum. That's why we debate specific issues, not labels.

Isn't that fun? God, are we really going to have to depend on the millenials to maintain American hegemony, or does most of Gen X actually got a clue?
ninesalone
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10-Mar-2018(#22)
@Karaiya Happy Birthday Beer
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
10-Mar-2018(#23)
Thanks Nines!!! Your memes have been brutally hilarious lately.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 14-Mar-2018(#24)
thanks for picking up the slack, Nines, original topic would fall off so often and i never really thought about it enough to keep it open. yes
ninesalone
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* 18-Mar-2018(#25)
Japanese teacher explains why the US sucks now. Honestly can't disagree with most of his points.

"Too many people in the US have this stupid victim mindset. Sometimes they're the one's who are discriminating."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLgFfqohzDs

@Karaiya
Missile
Gold Good Trader
18-Mar-2018(#26)
A libertarian political commentator that moonlights as a awful games reviewer, pretty much. His video on Illegal immigration for example, frames the problem far more succinctly than Trump's speech about "Mexico not sending their best", i think. Though, it's also longer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOOBlcOIcLs
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 20-Mar-2018(#27)
ninesalone wrote:
> Japanese teacher explains why the US sucks now. Honestly can't disagree with most
> of his points.
>
> "Too many people in the US have this stupid victim mindset. Sometimes they're the
> one's who are discriminating."
>
>
> @Karaiya

Oh God, the same straight white man argument from a foreigner that doesn't understand nuances and disproportion from a country with a nasty history of Asian supremacy that spent a great part of the 20th century killing the Chinese and commiting war crimes throughout Asia and the South Pacific because they thought they were superior and also allied themselves with the greatest white supremacist regime in world history. A culture that fetishizes whiteness and Naziism in its pop culture. Yes, Ill listen to this guys opinion. He's well educated on oppressive systems and the history of American society.

What about now? That's what people say when their histories are filled with shameful, atrocity.

Progress is being made true and we still have a way to go. There is always labor and work to be done.

I appreciate that you packaged the same stuff up and handed it to me from a Japanese guy with a cool accent. Really, speaks to my weeabo sensibilities.

whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 20-Mar-2018(#28)
I couldn't listen anymore when he said that more white people are in poverty. Who gives a fudge about raw numbers. Poverty disproportionately affects blacks and most other POC groups more than whites. I heard Ben Shapiro say the other day that more white men are incarcerated than blacks too. Ridiculous. The sad thing is that many of them know better too, but people use those pointless arguments because it justifies their viewpoints.

Using priviledge to explan individual differences is ridiculous, but so is this garbage. I'm so sick of this polarization.

Crime is at all-time modern lows, crime is intraracial (one of the only ones that's not is robbery, I believe), blacks are more likely to committ violenct street crimes, whites are more likey do committ white collar crimes which do far (and by far I mean exponentially) more deaths, injuries, and economic losses, people you know are more likely to hurt you than people you don't know, statistically you are extremely safe from physical harm due to violent crime, and it makes no logical sense to worry about it more than many other things that are more likely to hurt or kill you or your family.

Sorry for the rant.

ninesalone
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21-Mar-2018(#29)
whitefire wrote:
> I couldn't listen anymore when he said that more white people are in poverty. Who
> gives a fudge about raw numbers. Poverty disproportionately affects blacks and most
> other POC groups more than whites.

That's true, but the reasons are important. Instead of looking at those reasons objectively, some would rather blame racial groups and feel a sense of victimization that isn't there. Culture has a lot to do with crime rates and poverty rates. Asians are more educated and make more than whites in America.


> Using priviledge to explan individual differences is ridiculous, but so is this garbage.

> I'm so sick of this polarization.

I don't understand this perspective at all. You seem to agree that this "privilege" by race concept being applied to individuals is dumb, and I agree. But would you say it's harmful? Divisive? I would. Calling attention to or criticizing it and those who push this division is polarizing? I can't wrap my head around that. From my perspective he is zeroing in on a large reason we are so polarized. False concepts and ideologies like the one he criticizes are harmful, racist, and divisive.
ninesalone
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21-Mar-2018(#30)
Karaiya wrote:

> Oh God, the same straight white man argument from a foreigner that doesn't understand
> nuances and disproportion from a country with a nasty history of Asian supremacy
> that spent a great part of the 20th century killing the Chinese and commiting war
> crimes throughout Asia and the South Pacific because they thought they were superior
> and also allied themselves with the greatest white supremacist regime in world history.

You come off as very bigoted here. I'm not sure what this Japanese teacher/Youtuber has to do with the Rape of Nanking, or what I have to do with the African slave trade. That's really his point. Why live in the past? The only thing that ties him to atrocities of the past is his race. As an individual, he has done no such evil. This concept is very racist imo. We have events happening in South Africa where blacks are killing white farmers and the government is either looking the other way or encouraging it. I wouldn't even need to go back into history to find atrocities against white people. It's happening now. I wouldn't for a second think that "All black people are responsible."

> A culture that fetishizes whiteness and Naziism in its pop culture.

This seems absurd. Even if that was the case is HE into or pushing that ideology? No.

> Yes, Ill listen
> to this guys opinion. He's well educated on oppressive systems and the history of
> American society.

> What about now? That's what people say when their histories are filled with shameful,
> atrocity.

"Their histories." Again HIS history? As an individual?

> Progress is being made true and we still have a way to go. There is always labor
> and work to be done.

Shaming and debunking this "privilege" nonsense and those who push it would be a good start. Judging people by their own actions and character would be way better. Dividing people up by racial groups and assigning guilt and victimhood status based on historical events would be going backwards.

> I appreciate that you packaged the same stuff up and handed it to me from a Japanese
> guy with a cool accent. Really, speaks to my weeabo sensibilities.

Lol. It's the same because it's true. You've yet to put a dent in the arguments that are presented. I don't think you can without resorting to prejudice and bigotry.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 21-Mar-2018(#31)
ninesalone wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> I couldn't listen anymore when he said that more white people are in poverty.
> Who
>> gives a fudge about raw numbers. Poverty disproportionately affects blacks and
> most
>> other POC groups more than whites.
>
> That's true, but the reasons are important. Instead of looking at those reasons objectively,
> some would rather blame racial groups and feel a sense of victimization that isn't
> there. Culture has a lot to do with crime rates and poverty rates. Asians are more
> educated and make more than whites in America.
>
>
>> Using priviledge to explan individual differences is ridiculous, but so is this
> garbage.
>
>> I'm so sick of this polarization.
>
> I don't understand this perspective at all. You seem to agree that this "privilege"
> by race concept being applied to individuals is dumb, and I agree. But would you
> say it's harmful? Divisive?

Yes.

> From my perspective
> he is zeroing in on a large reason we are so polarized. False concepts and ideologies
> like the one he criticizes are harmful, racist, and divisive.

Culture isn't a sensical explanation either though. Generational wealth is a better one, just to name part of it. Whites do have priviledge. You just can't apply that to individuals due to variations in individual experiences and intersectionality.

Also, racial bias still exists in hiring practices, for instance. They've done many resume studies, and people with black or hispanic sounding names are less likely to be seen as desirable by employers even though everything else on the resume is exactly the same. However, I also agree with many conservatives that focusing on microagressions, in general, is pointless and doesn't help anyone. Togetherness is better than divisiveness, period.

Ultimately, as a society, in my opinion, we're better off looking passed race and gender and other differences based on the way people look, etc. and instead start focusing on wealth disparity and poverty. If you help the poor, you automatically help minorities and women who need help, so make it about that. Rich people have too much money and end up (through loopholes, etc.) paying far too little a percentage in taxes. I think we need to focus more on economic justice and less on racial justice, with some exceptions.

Health care, childcare (at least for the employed) and a strong education should all be free and everyone should have a roof over their head and food to eat unless they choose not to. What we want keeps the economy going not what we need. I am for capitalism and profit. I just think that basic necessities, such as the ones I mentioned, should be a right for every citizen and be exempt from that system, except in the cases where people WANT more. Want to eat steak? Get a job. Want little to no waits for the doctor and only prescription drugs and little to no limitations? Get a job. Want your own (or even a nice) place instead of just a roof over your head? Get a job. You get the idea. It's not a popular opinion, and it means more government (state or federal), but that's what I believe.

Fudge race-baiters and whiney little doges with their stupid, selfish bullcrap. They don't want liberalism. They just want to further whatever their agenda is.


ninesalone
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* 21-Mar-2018(#32)
whitefire wrote:

> Culture isn't a sensical explanation either though.

I don't think it's the only variable, but it is a major one that is often ignored.

> Generational wealth is a better
> one, just to name part of it.

I don't know. If I die wealthy I'd hope to share that with my children. That in and of itself isn't a problem to me. I think what's most important is that everyone, regardless of race, has the opportunity. Wishing we all have the same outcome is fantasy to me. There are minorities who are much more wealthy and successful than I. They tend to provide a great amount of value, whether that be in the sciences or entertainment. I have those opportunities. It is by choice or lack of talent that I'm not as rich/famous as them.

This is true for any minority that looks at whites and sees an economic disparity. We all have opportunities in modern day America. More than most places in the world.

> Also, racial bias still exists in hiring practices, for instance. They've done many
> resume studies, and people with black or hispanic sounding names are less likely
> to be seen as desirable by employers even though everything else on the resume is
> exactly the same.

This was talked about in a book called Freakonomics. They made a documentary too. I It should be explored, but I don't think the answer is coercing employers. It's true, but maybe the reasons aren't so malicious or full of ill-intent.

> Ultimately, as a society, in my opinion, we're better off looking passed race and
> gender and other differences based on the way people look, etc. and instead start
> focusing on wealth disparity and poverty. If you help the poor, you automatically
> help minorities and women who need help, so make it about that. Rich people have
> too much money and end up (through loopholes, etc.) paying far too little a percentage
> in taxes. I think we need to focus more on economic justice and less on racial justice,
> with some exceptions.

We don't have true capitalism here. We have a mixed economy where the government is heavily involved in business. When the rich can go to the government for benefit/advantage, we have a problem. We do have a problem, but it's not because of a free market, it's the lack of one.

> Health care, childcare (at least for the employed) and a strong education should
> all be free and everyone should have a roof over their head and food to eat unless
> they choose not to. What we want keeps the economy going not what we need. I am for
> capitalism and profit. I just think that basic necessities, such as the ones I mentioned,
> should be a right for every citizen and be exempt from that system, except in the
> cases where people WANT more. Want to eat steak? Get a job. Want little to no waits
> for the doctor and only prescription drugs and little to no limitations? Get a job.
> Want your own (or even a nice) place instead of just a roof over your head? Get a
> job. You get the idea. It's not a popular opinion, and it means more government (state
> or federal), but that's what I believe.

It sounds like you think people should be able to get by without working or effort. If we're talking about people who are legit mentally/physically disabled I think you have a case. Government isn't necessarily the answer. Providing able citizens with all the necessities of life at "no cost" doesn't work. Eventually, very few are pulling the cart.

Look at the plight of the folks on some of these native American reservations. Many of these folks can "get by" exclusively on government aid and it's not improving their communities. Very sad state.

It's hard to say no to free money and services for most people. It comes at a pretty big cost though in one way or another. I always roll my eyes when people talk about all the government services in European countries. These countries have high taxes and mostly lack the civil liberties we take for granted here. In some countries the tax rate is over 50% and you can be jailed for "offensive speech." When you become dependent, you surrender control.

> Fudge race-baiters and whiney little doges with their stupid, selfish bullcrap.
> They don't want liberalism. They just want to further whatever their agenda is.

Marxism.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
21-Mar-2018(#33)
Dislocated worker funding for living expenses: extended UI, welfare, call it what you will, workers unable to compete get some dough while retraining

Local/State/Federal business support arms identify likely businesses needing facilities and employees, incentives to locate in distressed areas

Work with industry to provide short term training programs for the prospective employees of these relocated concerns, funding from private and public sources.

Everybody must have health care benefits, at least wellness and preventative, medicare/medicaid for poorer families, option for others to buy into private, employer or public providers.

This is why you don't deficit spend $1.5T on a tax cut that will be spent on foreign made product, buy back of stock when prices dictate, and acquisition of smaller companies eliminating US jobs.

Carrier deal is a example of how stuff goes south with best intentions if you are not ironclad in your specifics.

Or you can just bandaid industries that won't be able to compete in the long term internationally.
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
21-Mar-2018(#34)
ninesalone wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>
>> Culture isn't a sensical explanation either though.
>
> I don't think it's the only variable, but it is a major one that is often ignored.

In terms of academia, it's not ignored, necessarily, but it's explained through institutional racism.

>
>> Generational wealth is a better
>> one, just to name part of it.
>
> I don't know. If I die wealthy I'd hope to share that with my children.

That's part of the problem is that wealth is viewed individually, and people often try to put themselves in that context. However, in my opinion, capitalism is not left alone to allow for fairness (which is the major appeal of it). Things are stacked against you if you're not born into a certain class, and upward mobility is becoming increasingly difficult, on the whole. Also, through lobbying and other political avenues, it's too interwoven into policy.

That in
> and of itself isn't a problem to me. I think what's most important is that everyone,
> regardless of race, has the opportunity. Wishing we all have the same outcome
> is fantasy to me. There are minorities who are much more wealthy and successful than
> I.

I agree, but you're focusing on individuals. As a whole, whites have far more power and wealth. This is trans-generational. We're only a couple of generations away from a time, that I think we all could agree, that was not true, and many of them never had the chance to build trans-generational wealth, especially after the industiral revoltuion and WWII when most of the whites in this country did.

> This is true for any minority that looks at whites and sees an economic disparity.
> We all have opportunities in modern day America. More than most places in the world.

I agree. I hate it when the US is demonized for harsher xenophobia, stricter immigration laws, and racist policies compared to other industrialized countries. This just isn't true. In fact, a large part of the readon we're so high on the HDI, despite our (comparatively) atrocious healthcare and education system is our freedom, opportunity, and cultural diversity.

Still, the massive dominance of white, Christian men in political, Fortune 500 CEO, and other positions of power cannot be explained by culture, IMO. There's a lot more to it than that. They are ridiculously overrepresented. I think that's great evidence.

>> Also, racial bias still exists in hiring practices, for instance. They've done
> many
>> resume studies, and people with black or hispanic sounding names are less likely
>> to be seen as desirable by employers even though everything else on the resume
> is
>> exactly the same.
>
> This was talked about in a book called Freakonomics. They made a documentary too.
> I It should be explored, but I don't think the answer is coercing employers. It's
> true, but maybe the reasons aren't so malicious or full of ill-intent.

I agree. It won't solve the problem. In fact, it may worsen if. However, it is strong evidence that should not be ignored, and it doesn't change that reality for those marginalized groups. They've done the same thing with married men and married women too. Married men were seen as more desirable and married women as less (liabilities).

>> Ultimately, as a society, in my opinion, we're better off looking passed race
> and
>> gender and other differences based on the way people look, etc. and instead start
>> focusing on wealth disparity and poverty. If you help the poor, you automatically
>> help minorities and women who need help, so make it about that. Rich people have
>> too much money and end up (through loopholes, etc.) paying far too little a percentage
>> in taxes. I think we need to focus more on economic justice and less on racial
> justice,
>> with some exceptions.
>
> We don't have true capitalism here. We have a mixed economy where the government
> is heavily involved in business. When the rich can go to the government for benefit/advantage,
> we have a problem. We do have a problem, but it's not because of a free market, it's
> the lack of one.

I agree.

>
>> Health care, childcare (at least for the employed) and a strong education should
>> all be free and everyone should have a roof over their head and food to eat unless
>> they choose not to. What we want keeps the economy going not what we need. I am
> for
>> capitalism and profit. I just think that basic necessities, such as the ones I
> mentioned,
>> should be a right for every citizen and be exempt from that system, except in
> the
>> cases where people WANT more. Want to eat steak? Get a job. Want little to no
> waits
>> for the doctor and only prescription drugs and little to no limitations? Get a
> job.
>> Want your own (or even a nice) place instead of just a roof over your head? Get
> a
>> job. You get the idea. It's not a popular opinion, and it means more government
> (state
>> or federal), but that's what I believe.

> It sounds like you think people should be able to get by without working or effort.
> If we're talking about people who are legit mentally/physically disabled I think
> you have a case. Government isn't necessarily the answer. Providing able citizens
> with all the necessities of life at "no cost" doesn't work. Eventually, very few
> are pulling the cart.
>
> Look at the plight of the folks on some of these native American reservations. Many
> of these folks can "get by" exclusively on government aid and it's not improving
> their communities. Very sad state.

That is strong evidence. However, I feel that it's deplorable to have these problems to these degrees in one of the richest countries in the world. Also, I don't think anyone should get free money, just a real safety net and real support. Maybe you should get these things, but only if you contribute to society (assuming you can). That could be a better solution.

>> Fudge race-baiters and whiney little doges with their stupid, selfish bullcrap.
>> They don't want liberalism. They just want to further whatever their agenda is.
>
> Marxism.

If that's Marxism, they need to read a fudging book. Lol.


Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 21-Mar-2018(#35)
"strong education should all be free"

i dont think we have to do free degrees, but eliminating GenEd requirements for post secondary matriculation would bring time and cost down to 4 or 5 semesters, go back to no interest student loans for ten year period and it becomes a good investment for individuals. WTF is the point of AP if not to get head start?

if you dont pass the admissions exam, take remedial at your expense, commcolleges and public U's can design shorter programs
for local and national employment needs in vocational, technical and academic areas of demand
whitefire
GameTZ Subscriber 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 21-Mar-2018(#36)
I was referring to a strong primary education. I don't think college has to be free either although I do think that people who want to be doctors and perform other public service should have all or most of their loans repaid.

I also do think that school should be 100% completely interest free, yes. Profit is fine, but we don't need for-profit education and healthcare. I feel like it's ok for some things to be off-limits, just very, very little.

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 26-Mar(#37)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISbQntlH9n0

Penn Jillette on Islam. Importance on separating Islam from people. "The chances of a terrorist believing in Islam, very very good. The chances of someone believing in Islam being a terrorist, very very bad." Also makes the distinction that disagreeing with Islam is not Islamophobia.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 26-Mar(#38)
I really like Penn Jillette, although plenty of disagreements there. I used to listen to his podcast years ago called "Penn's Sunday School." Of course, if you haven't seen the series that used to be on Showtime "Bullcrap" you really should check it out. I still refer to that show a lot when talking about certain subjects. The episodes on recycling, bottled water, and organic food are gold.

https://vimeo.com/216389085

Guess he's still doing that podcast: https://pennsundayschool.com/
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
31-Mar(#40)
ninesalone wrote:

*kicks back*
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
31-Mar(#41)
Ah, Part 1 was great, I was singing "Nakadashi" and laughing along with Meteokur at the end.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 31-Mar(#42)
I'm still a bit shocked they arrested a guy for sending a gif. Didn't know about most of this, but I remember the tentacle porn stuff and all the memes. If this guy can be successful, really no one has an excuse.

Also, the Internet Insanity series... I've enjoyed most of them. I think someone shared it in your thread awhile back and I subscribed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RijB8wnJCN0
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 31-Mar(#43)
I'm starting Tales of Trout Pt2 right now (crazy stuff). But yeah, his Internet Insanity videos are always astounding subject material. Honestly, just good entertaining content all around.

Yeah, the GIF arrest sucks, but honestly I'm shocked it hasn't happened before now. On the other hand, do I seriously think this guy had a seizure? I fudging don't. And I don't agree that you viewing something online, having a photosensitive condition, would mean whoever posted it is liable for your dumb fudging ass doing crap you shouldn't be doing.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
1-Apr(#44)
Radio lab did a remarkably great balanced podcast about gun control recently.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
1-Apr(#45)
I like Radio Lab, they do some HQ programming. I'll have to give it a listen, thanks for the heads-up.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 2-Apr(#47)
Watched it this morning, ugh. lol

Also lol. HOW DO YOU BLOCK ONE BEFORE SEEING THEM
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
2-Apr(#48)
Probably a secret he learned from the CIA.
Missile
Gold Good Trader
* 2-Apr(#49)
Snowflakes have designed virtual blacklist scripts that you can use to filter through all the craplords.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 3-Apr(#51)
Spot on.

image
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
3-Apr(#52)
ninesalone wrote:
> @DiamondDave

I was like "It really can't get any worse than this, though, honestly" but holy crap, that graph was 100% TRUE. It's not curving up enough!
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
5-Apr(#54)
ninesalone wrote:
> @DiamondDave

I feel like people are going to take that as a challenge, but he's right, they probably shouldn't do that. This is getting bad...
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
6-Apr(#55)
How long until he shoots up vanity fair?
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
12-Apr(#56)
Does anyone seriously believe Assad carried out these chemical attacks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WuPFlMThw
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
12-Apr(#57)
It's a good question. Seems like a really stupid thing to do. He's done it a few tines since the first pics of dead babies. Or someone has.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 12-Apr(#58)
ninesalone wrote:
> Does anyone seriously believe Assad carried out these chemical attacks?
>

Sometimes its okay to employee Occam's Razor.

Just based on the history of Assads regime.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
12-Apr(#59)
Paul Watson was born in Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England where he grew up on a council estate. One of his first jobs was cleaning toilets at a sports arena, but he gave this up to concentrate on InfoWars and his website PropagandaMatrix

excellent training for an investigative journalist and news analyst!

the accumulated knowledge of mankind available to all on the internet and this is what the kooks think is real, great.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
12-Apr(#60)
Osiris wrote:
> Paul Watson was born in Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England where he grew up on a
> council estate. One of his first jobs was cleaning toilets at a sports arena, but
> he gave this up to concentrate on InfoWars and his website PropagandaMatrix
>
> excellent training for an investigative journalist and news analyst!
>
> the accumulated knowledge of mankind available to all on the internet and this is
> what the kooks think is real, great.

I think you're the real 'kook' here. You always, without exception, attack the person and never the specific points addressed or their take on it. You come across real snobbish the more I read your posts... and really I don't think you have much more to offer than that at this point.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
12-Apr(#61)
Kookoff!!!
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 12-Apr(#62)
Feeb wrote:
> Kookoff!!!

i have no self control, playing the once a year playoff hockey fan tonite!
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 12-Apr(#63)
ninesalone wrote:
> Osiris wrote:
>> Paul Watson was born in Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England where he grew up on
> a
>> council estate. One of his first jobs was cleaning toilets at a sports arena,
> but
>> he gave this up to concentrate on InfoWars and his website PropagandaMatrix
>>
>> excellent training for an investigative journalist and news analyst!
>>
>> the accumulated knowledge of mankind available to all on the internet and this
> is
>> what the kooks think is real, great.
>
> I think you're the real 'kook' here. You always, without exception, attack the person
> and never the specific points addressed or their take on it. You come across real
> snobbish the more I read your posts... and really I don't think you have much
> more to offer than that at this point.

Stop defending your fandom of lunatics.

Osiris, is correct. Paul Watson's commentary is not only trash, he is as well as Osiris eloquently mentioned.

In the real world, where we are, and you exist, whether or not you choose to accept it, it is possible to simultaneously critique/"attack" both a person's arguments and their character based on those arguments because they are rarely if ever, mutually exclusive. Paul, Alex, and the guys at Infowars and propaganda matrix are not creating satire.

I realize the narcissist within you needs validation but both Osiris and Feeb, without exception understand that bad ideas and opinions based in fantasy and lunacy are not worth arguing. Their specific points and 'take' are not worth engaging. It's not snobbery. It's literal fudging common sense.

I sense you feel attacked as well since you posted the video so his attack on Paul is also an aside towards you. For what it's worth there is a whole thread of YouTube 'kooks' that share your opinions. You should find validation there.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
12-Apr(#64)
Hey!! Leave me out of this. I'm just trying to get my sip on and platinum monster hunter world. Yep. I'm angry.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
12-Apr(#65)
Platinum Monster Hunter!? Now that's some fudging snobbery!!!
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
12-Apr(#66)
Eat my dick lint.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
12-Apr(#67)
Jesus I'm angry.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
13-Apr(#68)
In addition to sound critical thinking, an effective education provides the ability to evaluate the credibility of information sources, background and separation of opinion from actual facts and events.

Indoctrination into leftist/maxist/socialist/cronycapitalist/elitist circles is a bonus!
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
13-Apr(#69)
I spent an hour and a half every morning for 4 years doing "journal clubs." Training to know the motivations and conflicts of interest of a person creating a piece of information is a large part of clinical medicine. Skeptic / cynic camp we called it.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
13-Apr(#70)
What made you stop practicing medicine?
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 13-Apr(#71)
ninesalone wrote:
> Osiris wrote:
>> Paul Watson was born in Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England where he grew up on
> a
>> council estate. One of his first jobs was cleaning toilets at a sports arena,
> but
>> he gave this up to concentrate on InfoWars and his website PropagandaMatrix
>>
>> excellent training for an investigative journalist and news analyst!
>>
>> the accumulated knowledge of mankind available to all on the internet and this
> is
>> what the kooks think is real, great.
>
> I think you're the real 'kook' here. You always, without exception, attack the person
> and never the specific points addressed or their take on it. You come across real
> snobbish the more I read your posts... and really I don't think you have much
> more to offer than that at this point.

It was probably the way you framed the link, frankly. Posting with an "I think this fella has some interesting observations" versus "this armchair analysis just laid the crap out, I can't believe anyone thinks otherwise after this!" which wasn't verbatim what you said obviously, but certainly how it might have been taken. At which point, to vet its credibility, one might look into his history and see that the person making the argument found out that bombastic alternative viewpoints was more profitable than scrubbing diarrhea out of toilet bowls.

Clickbait versus a discussion starter. Happens a lot to me when I post bits from John Oliver I found interesting or entertaining, people dismiss it out of hand because they don't like him, call it leftist propaganda instead of a humorous take on current events, ideas and concepts without so much as a click. No need to get butthurt over it, just shrug and keep on truckin'. Not everything's gonna be a home run. I'm glad you shared something you found value in regardless!

Not that you're wrong, mind you. smile
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
13-Apr(#72)
Karaiya wrote:
> What made you stop practicing medicine?


Bwahahah. I still do.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
13-Apr(#73)
Oh good! I thought you'd made a career change. Thank you for what you do.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (2 minutes ago)
13-Apr(#74)
I'm a dog mechanic.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
13-Apr(#75)
Lmao
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 650 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
13-Apr(#76)
Feeb wrote:
> I'm a dog mechanic.

My dumb dogs ate a bunch of chicken bones last night. I'm going to bring them to you.
ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 13-Apr(#77)
ninesalone wrote:
> Does anyone seriously believe Assad carried out these chemical attacks?

@ That's all well and good. I don't subscribe to everything PJW says or does a video on. He's not even close to the only one talking about this, just had succinct commentary on it.

ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
13-Apr(#78)
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
14-Apr(#79)
Russian trolls and sympathizers still active...change the narrative quick!
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
14-Apr(#80)
The Brits are certainly attacking now.

Topic   Podcast, Video, and Book Recommendations [the 2nd]