Politics

Topic   The race and religion talk. Its time we had it as a topic.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 14-Aug(#1)
The recent events in VA have caused a large discussion about race to pop up. It's okay to have a real talk about it and bring your opinions. Not necessarily your hate if you have it. This is a topic to discuss this with civility. Try and refrain from posting offensive memes.

I want to avoid clogging up the Newsroom. So if you want to talk about issues like this do so and do so respectfully. It can be uncomfortable, thats okay. However, no if you say something offensive expect to be challenged.

Have fun...
Missile
Gold Good Trader
14-Aug(#2)
Sure i'll start it off.

Karaiya wrote:
> For me, somethings about cultural appropriation are not okay and somethings
> are really not a big deal. In the sense of black hair, indigenous peoples, sports
> teams changing their names, and white washing acting roles. Yes, those are big deals
> for those groups like mine. .
So does this extend to video games as well? Like, would you say you prefer subtitles/original audio over the english cast because they tend to replace the original actors with, mostly white people, or would that be a step too far?
King_link
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15-Aug(#3)
The God we read about in any religious text isn't real. Humans have no idea what this is but it's easier to pretend we do.We don't know why we are here. We don't know what consciousness is. We don't know what the universe is made of. We don't know what happens after we die.

Sounds dreary but it's kind of liberating.
Scots
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15-Aug(#4)
King_link wrote:
> The God we read about in any religious text isn't real. Humans have no idea what
> this is but it's easier to pretend we do.We don't know why we are here. We don't
> know what consciousness is. We don't know what the universe is made of. We don't
> know what happens after we die.

I disagree.
King_link
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15-Aug(#5)
Scots wrote:
> King_link wrote:
>> The God we read about in any religious text isn't real. Humans have no idea what
>> this is but it's easier to pretend we do.We don't know why we are here. We don't
>> know what consciousness is. We don't know what the universe is made of. We don't
>> know what happens after we die.
>
> I disagree.

I know and that's okay. We all have a subjective experience in this crazy place. Would you care to share yours?
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug(#6)
any thoughts on the lack of response by Trump to Plank, head of UnderArmour resigning from manufacturing council versus the Merck guy?
Plank played it safe though, citing generic "politics" rather than specific events and Trump response to them.
Would it be a mistake to make note of the skin color of the two guys?

Edit: Intel CEO joined the party too
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#7)
King_link wrote:
> . We don't
> know what happens after we die.


I know we rot in our box or are scattered to the winds and water.
Is there some other knowable condition that occurs after death?
tonymack21
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15-Aug(#8)
I want to think I will see my grandmother and my best friend who have both preceded me in death waiting at that gate for me, and though ive believed that most of my life as a science nerd its hard to rationalize into fact sometimes. as living things with self awareness we don't want to think that our consciousness, what makes you "you" will be gone forever when your body ceases to function. we believe that our ability to feel and to think makes us something more, and its scary to think we are not. however. if such a thing were real why are there so many contradictory religions and faiths? sometimes even within the same umbrella as with Christianity? (which I myself would identify as) Baptists and the Church of God believe very different things in some ways, but yet all these beliefs and differences are the creations of someones interpretation. Baptist churches tend to teach that Faith is of God and Religion was created by man. and religion is inherently evil, as is proven by being the source of many major conflicts in the world. it all gets pretty twisted up and goes back to its easier to cope with existence if you believe there is something else and a higher purpose and your sense of self remains. fear of non existence is a real thing. in the end the impact we have had on others and the memory we leave our children is maybe the closest thing to existence after death there is if Heaven in fact is not a thing.



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whitefire
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15-Aug(#9)
All I have to say on the subject that I haven't already said is that true equality is what we should reach for most. For that to happen, we need to be inclusive and connect with each other and not be so divisive and individualistic. Unfortunately, labeling only exacerbates this issue, but if we don't group people, how do we know who is marginalized? That's the rub. It'd be great if we could all be colorblind (because that's the only way I see us reaching true equality), but in a world where not everyone is colorblind, some or most of us being colorblind is dangerous.



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tonymack21
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* 15-Aug(#10)
whitefire wrote:
> All I have to say on the subject that I haven't already said is that true equality
> is what we should reach for most. For that to happen, we need to be inclusive and
> connect with each other and not be so divisive and individualistic. Unfortunately,
> labeling only exacerbates this issue, but if we don't group people, how do we know
> who is marginalized? That's the rub. It'd be great if we could all be colorblind
> (because that's the only way I see us reaching true equality), but in a world where
> not everyone is colorblind, some or most of us being colorblind is dangerous.
>
>

that's a good point. i don't feel like this will happen in our lifetime, or ever, as long as religion continues to be such a dividing line and while it benefits the 1% for the lower class to be divided. and for the marginalized groups, bringing them into the fold equally, not handouts that then in turn discriminate against someone else, is where it eventually needs to get, but while the elite ruling class is in power, and they always will be, it will never happen.

the movie Antz is actually a pretty great social commentary.

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egg
Double Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug(#11)
meh.. race and religion are two separate topics... if we're supposed to be talking about what happened in VA then this should've just been called race talk

I postulate that we are all one person simultaneously inhabiting 7 billion bodies of various races. Meaning that spiritually and morally, race doesn't exist, even if race exists in the material sense. (i.e. genetics) Though we seem to be told that race doesn't exist not even in the material sense, as in, that levels of intelligence and athleticism is equal across races, but such assertions are obviously politicized and can't be trusted. But either way, we're all human. And that's special.

Organized religion is of course, a con. Christianity was invented by the roman government as an instrument for control, all of its holidays and rituals were literally designed for fashion. Since then they sold indulgences, committed atrocities like witch hunts and inquisitions and the crusades, and remain woefully corrupt to this day, existing as a known pedophile ring. For more information, watch Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

I also postulate that all holy texts are by definition fake precisely because they're written word. The modern equivalent would be like if God created the bible as a DVD or as a web page. Many people didn't even know how to read back then--very convenient for those in control of the church.

I also postulate that if you believe something to be sacred text, then you must take all of it or none of it as true. The only excuse to cherry pick is if one part directly contradicts another, although the existence of contradicts arguably discredits the work entirely. Things like political correctness or popular opinion should of course not affect how one interprets a holy text, in cases where the text is pretty obvious. Though, the existence of varying translations put tremendous confusion on this issue, although this is more evidence that all holy texts are anything but.

Saying you are a certain religion, does not mean you are. A true member of a faith should be defined by the extent they believe their religion and practice it, not by how progressive or moderate they are.

Personally, I don't see Jesus as someone who would attend white nationalist rallies.
Scots
Go Hawks GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
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15-Aug(#12)
Lol
egg
Double Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#13)
forgot to mention racist cupcakes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDVnzQD_FVU

god I love affirmative action
MikeyWhoa
Go Pack Go GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#14)
I'd LOVE to have a true discussion and debate on religion and various beliefs. But it's next to impossible. I'm sort of bigoted against most religious beliefs, (not religious people) and my statements and responses come off as too pretentious and judgmental. I've yet to find a religious person open-minded enough to laugh with me as I deconstruct their beliefs. I'm willing to answer basically any question no matter how offensive. I need that other side of the coin. They are too elusive.




Cheese
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
15-Aug(#15)
I also have bigoted beliefs about religion especially Christianity and Islam. I find them to both be really good at upholding the worst cultural and oppressive structures. However, it is also obvious that religion also brings the best out of people. That religion should be protected.
whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
(frozen)
15-Aug(#16)
I think religious freedom is very important. If you don't want to say the national anthem because it says God in it, then don't. If want to go to a church instead of a temple or mosque, go for it. I just don't like that people feel that should extend to paying no taxes or having whatever their religion is play a role in politics, education, or other publicly funded entities. If you don't want the government to have any say over your religion, then your religion shouldn't have any say over the government.



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tonymack21
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15-Aug(#17)
indeed, the founding fathers knew this would be a problem and so had the idea of separation between church and state, but yet religion is such a staple in the lives of many that it cant help but overlap into their political leanings, hence republicans typically carrying the evangelical vote. i also believe the ugliest parts of Christianity and Islam are bad for people and society and the world at large, but yet for some it is biggest part of their moral teachings. we need better values and morals in our society and its a shame that part cant be separated from the negative.

i also don't like the tax exempt status, but then again the nfl doesn't pay taxes either but i hate them for lots of reasons not just that lol.

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Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Aug(#18)
my church pays taxes:
http://time.com/3839164/nfl-tax-exempt-status/

the franchises always paid corporate taxes, may or may not have received RE tax exemption depending, the league office as a small recipient of league revenues gave up tax exempt status a while ago. I gather the exemption was more trouble than it was worth.

i worship Sundays and any other days there are services. Devoted.
tonymack21
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15-Aug(#19)
That's good. The NFL being tax exempt was super crooked.

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Gomez
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15-Aug(#20)
Religion has no place in medicine. If the church wants to donate money to hospitals that's fine but they have no business being involved anywhere in the policies or protocols as pertaining to medicine of any kind or any administration.
The_Pope
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
15-Aug(#21)
I know a lot of awesome people that are religious. Unfortunately, I think religion does far more bad than good. I'd love to have my mind changed on that, but it's yet to happen.
whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
(frozen)
15-Aug(#22)
Well, I know as far as the homeless in this country, they're pretty much the only ones who do crap. At least they try to help those less fortunate. I've rarely volunteered for anything having to do wih the poor that wasn't backed by a religious institution of some kind.

It's tough to say if more bad than good has been done by religion because it's virtually impossible to imagine what history would have been like without relgion. Imaging no countries my not be hard to do, but imagining no religion? I don't even know what that would look like because so much has happened within the context of religion that the world is inseparable from it.

I will say that in my limited personal experience, I've found no difference in the "moral fiber" between those who claim to be religious and those who do not. I know a ton of great Christians though, and they say that's where they go their morals from, so maybe there's something to all of that.

People tend not to like my religious beliefs. I'm a weak agnostic. I also have more of an egalitarian philosophy which doesn't seem to be popular either.

I have zero problem with people who are religious though and don't find them stupid or ignorant. As long as they don't justify their actions through it, I'm fine with whatever anyone chooses to believe/do, as long as it's not hurting anyone else.



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Gypsy
Kind of a dick. GameTZ Gold Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
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15-Aug(#23)
Might as well say it, I'm biased too. With that said...

Life sucks, and then you die. The old religion writers were good though, still tricking people in 2017. Then again, I think a lot of people want to believe because as mentioned it's a coping mechanism for the harshness of reality. And don't even get me started on mega preachers. It's all a scam, but guys like Joel Osteen that use it to become millionaires, ugh.

@Osiris yes

@whitefire Very fair point about soup kitchens and whatnot. There are a lot of people that need help in this world and frequently it is a church helping out.

Also I'll just end it with this so we can all have a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
15-Aug(#24)
There are plenty of groups outside of churches that help out the homeless. Where do you folks live?

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whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
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15-Aug(#25)
Even if you're religious, you have no sense of humor if you can watch that and not laugh.

I actually saw him not too long before he passed. I'm really glad I did because I had no idea it'd be my last chance. He was awesome although most of the material I'd heard before, but I didn't really care.



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whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
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15-Aug(#26)
Karaiya wrote:
> There are plenty of groups outside of churches that help out the homeless. Where
> do you folks live?
>
>

I'm not saying other groups do nothing, but religious organizations take the lion's share of that burden.



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Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
15-Aug(#27)
whitefire wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> There are plenty of groups outside of churches that help out the homeless. Where
>> do you folks live?
>>
>>
>
> I'm not saying other groups do nothing, but religious organizations take the lion's
> share of that burden.
>
>

I think nationally you're correct.


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whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
(frozen)
15-Aug(#28)
Karaiya wrote:
> whitefire wrote:
>> Karaiya wrote:
> |>> There are plenty of groups outside of churches that help out the homeless. Where
> |>> do you folks live?
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> I'm not saying other groups do nothing, but religious organizations take the lion's
>> share of that burden.
>>
>>
>
> I think nationally you're correct.
>
>
>

What are you talking about then, some random city? Of course I mean nationally. Or do you mean overseas (like humanitarian aid stuff)?



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Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
15-Aug(#29)
whitefire wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> whitefire wrote:
> |>> Karaiya wrote:
>> |>> There are plenty of groups outside of churches that help out the homeless.
> Where
>> |>> do you folks live?
>> |>>
>> |>>
> |>>
> |>> I'm not saying other groups do nothing, but religious organizations take the
> lion's
> |>> share of that burden.
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> I think nationally you're correct.
>>
>>
>>
>
> What are you talking about then, some random city? Of course I mean nationally. Or
> do you mean overseas (like humanitarian aid stuff)?
>
>

Meaning major cities like Portland, Boston, Philadelphia provide shelter, food, and assistance. To be honest the government would actually be the lions share.

Wait, are you getting defensiveI sense a tone change. I'm not trying to argue wirh you. My question about where do you guys live was to ask why aren't your city and state governments carrying the lionshare of homeless care..

Churches are great at soup kitchens and food drivea but they don't deal with rehab and community resources, and housing. So I couldnt say now that I think about it that they carry the lionshare of the responsibility. Theyre good at advertizing that they do though.


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Gypsy
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15-Aug(#30)
I just said frequently and of course there are non-religious places that do this stuff as well. I was just trying to say something nice really since it's imo one of the few good things some churches do.
whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
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15-Aug(#31)
Karaiya wrote:
> Wait, are you getting defensiveI sense a tone change.

No.



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Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
15-Aug(#32)
whitefire wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> Wait, are you getting defensiveI sense a tone change.
>
> No.
>
>

I understand.

Charity, is a collaterol assignment for religious institutions. Its main goal is proliferate worship and conversion meaning that the church does charitable specifically as a way to increase its standing as do gooders in the communities. Not to say this is a bad thing. Its mostly benign and when done well and meaningfully, benevolent.

However, much of the work in charity, housing, displacement support, and other important things to actually decrease homelessness is done through charity outside from social workers, social justice work, and volunteerism. These things are both done through the private sector donation, and local and federal government grants for social justice groups, and community assistance.


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whitefire
500 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
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15-Aug(#33)
I forgot to mention one more point. I also think we need to focus more on SES than race, in terms of public policy. NA, AA, and LA groups have the lowest SES anyway, so it still helps those groups without putting a label on it. We largely do that anyway, but I think we can do more. I do believe that saying people should all get treated the same is a bit unfair when we all have different starting points.

I find it disingenuous to say that the kid who went to a poor school has just as much of a chance as getting into a particular college as the kid who went to a rich private school, so they should be treated the same. It's "separate but equal" for the modern age. Something should be done to at least somewhat level the playing field. We already do this in many ways, but I think we can do more. However, I think it's divisive to separate these things based on race. We should solely view them through an SES lense, which in turn, has the same result anyway but pisses a lot less people off. I'm a pragmatist.





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Topic   The race and religion talk. Its time we had it as a topic.