Politics

Topic   Is Racism Implicitly Evil?

ninesalone
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
25-Oct(#1)
I've always thought so. Recently, I'm not so sure I understand racism that well. I watched this video when it came out and several times since. I shared it with @Karaiya asking what he thought about it. That Guy T argues racism is a part of social Darwinism, or a "utility." Something we can never get rid of because in-group preferences are a part of human nature.

"Prejudice doesn't have to come from a place of hate or antagonism."

I'm hoping some of you could shed more light on it. Is he off-base or simply describing an unavoidable reality? Are racial preferences something we should strive to scrub from society or just a part of life? I think you'll find it interesting regardless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73KkLu2X6SI&t=105s


tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews
25-Oct(#2)
I think they are a part of life, but that doesn't mean we cant all treat each other right

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 25-Oct(#3)
It's natural in a biological sense to desire like company and to fear or exclude "outsiders." This is a common sense trait for the evolution and propagation of "races" and subspecies etc. Human nature explains very well why this is necessary IMHO. Humans have developed religions which supported and justified atrocities such as genocide and slavery etc to not only reaffirm their beliefs but also to dull the inevitably immoral sting they felt. In essence we know what is "right" and "wrong" in a situation without these ideas being extant.

Much like the need for religion in periods of ignorance has been mostly rendered a set of explanations to provide comfort in the face of death and a hostile world, the desire for tribalism is in many cases now a choice as opposed to a necessity.

The cases in which tribalism benefits us these days are unfortunately still intrinsically tied to either unbridled human nature or irrational faith groups or both.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 26-Oct(#4)
ninesalone wrote:
> I've always thought so. Recently, I'm not so sure I understand racism that well.
> I watched this video when it came out and several times since. I shared it with @Karaiya
> asking what he thought about it. That Guy T argues racism is a part of social Darwinism,
> or a "utility." Something we can never get rid of because in-group preferences are
> a part of human nature.
>
> "Prejudice doesn't have to come from a place of hate or antagonism."
>
> I'm hoping some of you could shed more light on it. Is he off-base or simply describing
> an unavoidable reality? Are racial preferences something we should strive to scrub
> from society or just a part of life? I think you'll find it interesting regardless.
>
>
>

Nines I am so sorry!!!! I meant to respond to you. Please forgive me. I hope I did not offend my intentions weren't to ignore you.

I watched the video a couple of times. I thought his comments were worth considering however, I disagree. I took for granted that you were strongly reflecting on this and I let you down by not giving you my thoughts. Again, so sorry.

Considering the things he had to say, I do personally find them to be off-base, thay doesnt necessarily mean that he doesnt make good points. The practice of racism is a utility. The way he described was as how people use it as a way to call others racist. White folks specifically. Or how the media may weaponize it. However, racism in itself is utilized to oppress, and has been weaponized through propoganda to harm and or worse. It has history of that. Racism is rarely based in facts buts preconceptions based on education, experience, and exposure.

Is it inherently evil?? Well, my belief is no, but it is NO WAY benevolent or benign and is typically a product of prejudice or ignorance. Racism is a utility and something we are all a product of. American society has a very different experience based how close slavery is relative to European cultures or African cultures.

I think I remember him discussuing genetics at some point but it could have been some one else. Genetics, while creating probable predictions based on inherited traits are affected by institutions of racism, through colonialism, and through imperialism. One of the first things we did as humam beings when we conquered was kill bloodlines and end genetic traits. For example through slavery slave owners would keep slaves minds weak and their bodies strong. Through conquering civilizations we would often kill the most intelligent people, politicians teachers. Its kind of a process of natural selection right.

Just like the phrase "war does not decide who is right, only who is left" genetics doesn't decide who is superior only what conditions ensured their survival. Historically, the side with the better tools right? However, many different civilzations have been technologically more advanced. African countries, Asian Countries, being this before western Europeans.

I believe we've used racism, race eugenics, and supremacy in a way that justifies our evil doing but racism in itself are not inherently evil. Racism is a choice and is learned behavior.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 26-Oct(#5)
I'd agree with everything except the "choice" statement at least when discussing if it's inherently "evil" (something that doesn't exist...) Tribalism (I prefer to group racism in with that) as it existed to protect groups of people from perceived danger arose from experience and learned fear but is also instinctual amongst very young children- they know "friend" without the experience. There was a time when there wasn't a choice if survival was the goal but definitely in a modern sense tribalism is a choice.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
26-Oct(#6)
As far as the understanding of racism goes Nines, its not as simple as society and media portray it to be. We have a definition of it yes, but its much more vast than its defintion. So I understand why you question it. Especially, in the current climate nationally. I think the positive thing is that you are intersted in the discussion and are exploring it logically and reflectung on it.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
26-Oct(#7)
Lastly, racism doesn't always come from a place of hate or prejudice. Many times and for in my opinion, it comes from misinformation and miseducation, ignorance and lack of exposure. These 4 things manifest themselves in different ways and help to create systems of hate and prejucidice.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
26-Oct(#8)
Feeb wrote:hi uni
> I'd agree with everything except the "choice" statement at least when discussing
> if it's inherently "evil" (something that doesn't exist...) Tribalism (I prefer to
> group racism in with that) as it existed to protect groups of people from perceived
> danger arose from experience and learned fear but is also instinctual amongst very
> young children- they know "friend" without the experience. There was a time when
> there wasn't a choice if survival was the goal but definitely in a modern sense tribalism
> is a choice.

Thats a good point.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
27-Oct(#9)
I take several issues with trying to paint things like racism with huge broad strokes, basically comparing us to animals. For instance, saying "It's part of human nature" basically throws out personal responsibility and dumbs down Humans as a species. It's in our nature to fudge everything we see with or without consent, or violently fight people who have things we want so that we can have them, but we generally frown upon people who do that, because in our social construct it's considered wrong/unacceptable. And as highly cognizant beings, we have the ability that most species do NOT demonstrate to repress our nature and conform, which among other things like thumbs puts us at the top of the food chain.

To wish harm upon another "race" and consider yourself superior, even up to the point of violence, is in fact the height of Human evil. It really doesn't get much worse than that, in my estimation. See Hitler.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 27-Oct(#10)
IMHO the simple fact that as humans we understand and fear the concept of death separates us from other animals. It's hard to find a human condition that doesn't regress to that point.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
27-Oct(#11)
It depends on how you define racism.

If you define it like many today do - acknowledging differences, strengths, and shortcomings among various races, then no.

If you define it as treating a person differently/worse solely because of his or her race, then unequivocally yes.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
27-Oct(#12)
Scots wrote:
> It depends on how you define racism.
>
> If you define it like many today do - acknowledging differences, strengths, and shortcomings
> among various races, then no.
>
> If you define it as treating a person differently/worse solely because of his or
> her race, then unequivocally yes.

AYE
thatonedude
Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
(frozen)
* 27-Oct(#13)
What Scots said. Stereotyping gets lumped in with racism all too often.

But, is actual racism (hate) implicitly evil? I don't think so, I would say it's implicitly ignorant though.

Part of it may be genetic. A dog will walk in a circle before it lays down in his comfy dog bed next to the fireplace, why? It's said the dog wants a 360 degree view of his surroundings before letting guard down to rest. Pre-domestication and up until modern times that was important mechanism for safety. Not really needed in today's world, not practiced by every dog every time but still there. Racism could be an age old genetic disposition to stir fear of the unknown for safety reasons. We know it's archaic in today's world, not everyone gives in to it and the people that do may not all the time, but it's still there. Though there are some out there who really revel in the hate of those not like them. I don't understand that, so I don't really know and just riffing here.
thatonedude
Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
(frozen)
* 28-Oct(#14)
lpeters82
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#15)
Not sure this totally fits, but I've found I enjoy being in areas where common language can't be assumed.
thatonedude
Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
(frozen)
3-Nov(#16)
I was thinking this today. Something cool about being out and hearing several languages around you.
lpeters82
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#17)
Yeah, I just find that fun. I only speak English, but my wife speaks English, Spanish, and French. Even when she's not around it's still fun to just try to communicate in unspoken language or just the few words I might know.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 3-Nov(#18)
Love Europe for that reason. Also New York and Boston. Ive been learning German and getting pretty good at it as well as Spanish.
theyrhere
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 2 Reviews
* 4-Nov(#19)
I think racism in and of itself is an "evil", as you say. I don't think the the ways in which a lot of people acquire their racist tendencies or actions are necessarily evil.

Being afraid of something different is human. Cultivating that through upbringing and select social experiences is what cultivates what we know to be racism.

It's the old nature vs nurture argument. I think our higher reasoning should make all of us realize when an action or thought is racist, and then we can purge that thought. Racism is taught IMO. Like, I don't think my dad is innately racist, I have never heard him say anything demeaning other races. But he locks his car doors if there's a black person around. That's a taught action that is racist, he just doesn't realize it. I don't think that these types of subtle racist thoughts or actions are implicitly evil.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
* 8-Nov(#20)
ninesalone wrote:
> I've always thought so. Recently, I'm not so sure I understand racism that well.
> I watched this video when it came out and several times since. I shared it with @Karaiya
> asking what he thought about it. That Guy T argues racism is a part of social Darwinism,
> or a "utility." Something we can never get rid of because in-group preferences are
> a part of human nature.
>
> "Prejudice doesn't have to come from a place of hate or antagonism."
>
> I'm hoping some of you could shed more light on it. Is he off-base or simply describing
> an unavoidable reality? Are racial preferences something we should strive to scrub
> from society or just a part of life? I think you'll find it interesting regardless.
>
>
>

I think "human nature" is going to far. We don't even have an agreed upon definition of human nature let alone what constitutes human nature. Is in-group preference even limited to humans? Not really. Lions will fight off other lions not in their group. If they come across another predator (Leopards, Hyenas, Cheetahs, wild dogs etc.) they will actively try to kill them even if those animals are not an active threat to them. In group preferences aren't part of human nature they are part of nature period. In fact, one could argue that the ability to cooperate with people who are not a part of your in-group is more an aspect of a distinctly human nature than in-group preferences. We may not trust out-group members as implicitly as in-group members but we'll actively work with them in order to survive. That's something not really all that common in nature.

Also, evil is a very strong term. You cannot change evil. If someone enjoys torturing those weaker than themselves you cannot rehabilitate that kind of person. But a racist can change their mind if forced into a situation in which they have no choice but to interact closely with those of other races.

Topic   Is Racism Implicitly Evil?