Politics

Topic   Where are all the white people at?

Osiris
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* 22-Aug(#1)
Whatchu think?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/...

Excerpts:
-Researchers specifically focused on white, working-class voters - people without college degrees or salaried jobs. This group accounts for one-third of American adults. They make up a bigger share of the population in the Midwest than they do in any other region, and more than half of rural Americans are part of the white working class.

-Nearly two-thirds of the white working class say American culture has gotten worse since the 1950s. Sixty-eight percent say the U.S. is in danger of losing its identity, and 62 percent say America's growing number of immigrants threaten the country's culture. More than half say discrimination against whites has become just as problematic as discrimination against minorities.

--So would culture and discrimination concerns make these Trump voters more sympathetic/favorable/aligned with much of the overall white supremacist agenda?
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
22-Aug(#2)
I'm not sure the link is right. Its giving a 404 message.

image
Osiris
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* 22-Aug(#3)
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/...

Thanks, this update appears to work.

Tough question, ain't it?
Gomez
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22-Aug(#4)
I'm sure this played a role. A lot of white folks aren't okay with the power structure changing. They see others obtaining rights they were denied for decades as an infringement of their rights and freedoms. They see immigrants as the problem when you can't blame someone who comes to work everyday. You blame the person who hires them and pays them pennies on the dollar. You come to this country with $100 in your pocket, you don't know anyone, you find work and a place to stay and you make your way up. When you come from a 3rd world country where a weeks pay is $8 then you come to the states and you make $3 an hour laboring off the books you think you've made it big and don't realize your employer is undercutting honest wages. All you see is an uptick of 6000% in your earning potential.

Plus you've got to remember a lot of white America is having daughters that are breeding with people of color. If your white daughters keep fudging black dudes the culture and numbers will keep changing.

For me it's about acceptance of a changing cultural climate and personal responsibility. It's so easy for people to point at others and say thats why everything's fudgeed up, but people don't like to admit that they were complicit in the actions of others. They saw things happening to others that were unfair and looked the other way. They didn't start to use their voices until something unfair happened to them. You can't have it both ways you spoiled little white doges.
ninesalone
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* 22-Aug(#5)
Prime wrote:
> I'm sure this played a role. A lot of white folks aren't okay with the power structure
> changing. They see others obtaining rights they were denied for decades as an infringement
> of their rights and freedoms. They see immigrants as the problem when you can't blame
> someone who comes to work everyday.

Total nonsense. None of that is true. 30% of Hispanics and Asians voted for Trump. Has more to do with where folks live and the "working class" than this racial crap that the left is trying to pin on conservatives. A lot of minority Trump voters live and work in the same rural areas Trump won. They run businesses, churches, etc and are a part of the community like anyone else.


> You blame the person who hires them and pays
> them pennies on the dollar. You come to this country with $100 in your pocket, you
> don't know anyone, you find work and a place to stay and you make your way up. When
> you come from a 3rd world country where a weeks pay is $8 then you come to the states
> and you make $3 an hour laboring off the books you think you've made it big and don't
> realize your employer is undercutting honest wages. All you see is an uptick of 6000%
> in your earning potential.

It's like slavery when compared to American salaries and a large reason people are against illegal immigration.

> Plus you've got to remember a lot of white America is having daughters that are breeding
> with people of color. If your white daughters keep fudging black dudes the culture
> and numbers will keep changing.

Interesting way to put that... Kind of puts a huge hole in your narrative.


Also...
Prime wrote:
> For me it's about acceptance

>you spoiled little white doges.
Gomez
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22-Aug(#6)
You missed the point I conceded that what they earn by comparison to American wages is tantamount to slave wages but it's reasonable to also consider that to them it's like hitting the prosperity lottery.

I'll admit some of what I wrote was fueled by frustration and deviated from the point and maybe even got a few things wrong. But I stand by my assertation that to blame a working man isn't the way to go. The real people at fault are the employers who hire these kinds of workers.

But for me I'm not just some pussy left winger I judge everyone in power equally as fudgebags. We wonder why immigrants acclimate to American culture less then the generations that came before. The biggest reason: Press 2 for Spanish. These people live in the country for decades and never learn English because they don't have to. Why the fudge should the Latins be handed a cheat sheet like press 2 for Spanish or having every government application available in Spanish. Like if you can't learn English enough to fill out your forms you don't belong here. There's no press 3 for polish, press 4 for mandarin. And it's not just the Spanish that don't acclimate. Europeans suck at acclimating, middle easterners suck as acclimation. The ones I see acclimating at least in urban NYC and surrounding counties are Indians. They become jets and giant fans, mets and yankee fans, they listen to our music, see our movies.

I thinking bringing some of your culture with you is perfectly fine my issue is when there isn't even an attempt to adapt.

Now I do have issues with some of the Indian culture. Like the men forcing the women to walk behind them, sit in the backseat. That crap pisses me off. That kind of culture can take a walk. Teaching girls that they're second class citizens is not okay by me.

Plus I think you had legal immigrants who are outraged at the illegals. They think, I signed the guest book, I earn legal wages, pay taxes, learned English, raise my kids as Americans and these jerks sneaking in (or more accurately not being asked to leave historically when the visa expires) are not only giving me a bad name but they're contributing to my higher taxes and otherwise draining our economy.

Personally I would give two bewbs if trump was the Buffon publicly but was actually getting things done that benefited the country.

But sadly he's just eradicated a peice of legislature that will now allow corporations to pump toxic run off into clean water sources because in his mind the .6 cents those companies save is a boon to the economy and greatly outweighs the right people have to clean drinking water.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 22-Aug(#7)
So just to put a statistic in perspective that Nines pointed out which is quite misleading because for both Asians and Latino's the percentage was more accurately 27-28 percent in each group. This is still not significant to compare or make an argument as to why white people voted for Trumps and their identity politics why? Well white people make up 63 percent of this country. Latinos make up 16 percent that doesnt even include Latinos that actually voted. Asians only make up 5 percent of the population in oir country. So their is no reasonable way flip the narrative over.


This Red States, the red rural areas are also OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE. "Alot" is a blatant over statement as Asians and Latinos make up more of the large coastal and Urban cities in the country.

A ton of rural and blue collar whites, MOST OF THEM, voted for Trump. 30% is a number that while significant at first glance does not tell an accurate detailing of voters and their intentions. Now when you break down the conversation in regards to white men, white women, college educated, non educated that is when you start to paint a picture. 30% tells us nothing because 30% of 5% of a population means absolutley nothing.

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ninesalone
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22-Aug(#8)
@Prime

I largely agree with most of your response, especially your point about employers being at fault. No arguments here. I also like your point about certain cultures that practice outright misogyny. This is separate issue than race as value systems have no color. You seem to get that.

I don't know much about the last issue you mentioned, so I won't comment on it.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
22-Aug(#9)
Secondly the white women fudging black dudes narrative is silly. First of all, having mixed race children does little to fix white supremacy and racism. Its actually perpetuated and reinforced a lot of it as mixed race children are often treated less than white. Plus statistically a white women with a black person or person of color has statistically proven to lower her standing in society.

As a person from a multicultural family of many different races we are still having to navigate the same racist bullcrap we always have had to. I don't think "breeding" with white women is going to help people of color get treated better.

image
Gomez
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22-Aug(#10)
It means something. It may not mean a lot but by your last bit of reasoning 30% of 5% of the population is meaningless but it's not. When you add it all up it accounted for a Trump win. None of that really has to do with the attitudes and reasoning people voted for him. We can bogged down in these numbers or we can just have an open talk about it. Someone always jumps in and is like "nuh huh, look I brought statistics I found 10 seconds ago to prove my point" all that does is get us wrapped up in right and wrong. It's not about that. It's about undressing the issue and moving past minor differences of opinion. You don't have to change someones mind and bring them over to your side. The goal to to educated each other on our perspectives and to respect them. We're all gonna come from different places and points of view. Just because we may not agree on something doesnt mean one person has to be wrong, where they are, what the climate is for them may not be the same so their opinion may seem wrong to me, you or anyone and vice versa but were not familiar with the circumstances on that side. The more we openly share with each other the more respect we should find for at a minimum where that person is coming from.
Gomez
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22-Aug(#11)
Karaiya wrote:
> Secondly the white women fudging black dudes narrative is silly. First of all, having
> mixed race children does little to fix white supremacy and racism. Its actually
> perpetuated and reinforced a lot of it as mixed race children are often treated less
> than white. Plus statistically a white women with a black person or person of color
> has statistically proven to lower her standing in society.
>
> As a person from a multicultural family of many different races we are still having
> to navigate the same racist bullcrap we always have had to. I don't think "breeding"
> with white women is going to help people of color get treated better.
>
>

That point had two reasons. number one I wanted to freak out white guys who have trouble imagining a penis double the size of their own inside the women they care about. That was a cheap shot at people who are uncomfortable with mixed dating. I don't believe in race other than human. Because as I've said before we are all compatible with one another from a procreative standpoint. I guess it was misplaced cause I can't remember the second reason now. My bad for inserting a little nonsense into an otherwise serious rant. I fudgeed up so I'll admit it and take my lumps.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
22-Aug(#12)
Good point @Prime I agree. They mean something because of the electoral college too.

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Karaiya
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* 22-Aug(#13)
Prime wrote:
> Karaiya wrote:
>> Secondly the white women fudging black dudes narrative is silly. First of all,
> having
>> mixed race children does little to fix white supremacy and racism. Its actually
>> perpetuated and reinforced a lot of it as mixed race children are often treated
> less
>> than white. Plus statistically a white women with a black person or person of
> color
>> has statistically proven to lower her standing in society.
>>
>> As a person from a multicultural family of many different races we are still having
>> to navigate the same racist bullcrap we always have had to. I don't think "breeding"
>> with white women is going to help people of color get treated better.
>>
>>
>
> That point had two reasons. number one I wanted to freak out white guys who have
> trouble imagining a penis double the size of their own inside the women they care
> about. That was a cheap shot at people who are uncomfortable with mixed dating. I
> don't believe in race other than human. Because as I've said before we are all compatible
> with one another from a procreative standpoint. I guess it was misplaced cause I
> can't remember the second reason now. My bad for inserting a little nonsense into
> an otherwise serious rant. I fudgeed up so I'll admit it and take my lumps.

Oh I wasnt offended. Sorry if it saounded as if I was. I've just heard the narrative that "we should all just fudge until we are the same color" and its not something I think is true.

Coutinue trolling the dudes afraid of getting cucked all you like. Lol


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Gomez
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22-Aug(#14)
I know I go off sometimes and get on a high horse and I have to apologize for that because it's counter productive. I just get so frustrated sometimes. I'll come around and see the other side of things and I get indignant when I feel like the other side is just rolling their eyes and can't be bothered to consider why the opposing side feels they way they do. I've got to get better at that so to allow for more intelligent and thoughtful exchanges between us.
tonymack21
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22-Aug(#15)
Nines Karaiya and Prime have already made all the points i would have added lol.

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Scots
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22-Aug(#16)
I can't answer the title to the thread, because I don't see color. I just see people.
tonymack21
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i have to say i do agree America is losing the identity it once had, and i don't think that's a good thing, i believe its created a moral crisis in our society, i see so so many young millennials with no moral fiber or values at all. (but older people too as well) i also believe the left is pushing the race thing to continue to divide the masses, because they know a divided and uneducated masses can not stand against the government. erasing history is bad, even when its unpleasant, as we are only doomed to repeat it otherwise. i am mostly white with native American heritage as well if traced back, and work for a big company at a plant with 6000 people of many many races and no one around here treats each other any different due to it. one of my brother and i's best friends was born in mexico city and is nationalized legally. im not saying it doesn't happen, i know it does, i just don't know its on the scale the media is trying to perpetuate at times. i do wholeheartedly agree with Prime in that it makes no sense that some come in and make no attempt to integrate into American society, you wanted to come here because of American society right?

also yes i don't like that indian girls are taught they are basically property.. although on the other end of the spectrum a lot of white women are spoiled and i cant stand it, maybe why im not re-married lol. they think they can just do whatever they want and you will put up with it, or they just threaten to find someone who will.

discrimination is discrimination in any form and is wrong, and i do get irritated at the idea that whites cant be discriminated against, because anyone can be. when i was a kid my dad interviewed for a job and was told i would start you today but affirmative action says i have to hire a black person, im sorry i wasted your time but im not allowed to tell you that before the interview. kind of hard to see how that isn't wrong to me, my dad had a family to care for just the same as the less qualified guy that man was forced to hire. oh he can go get another job...he had to take one that wasn't as good as that one.

i don't feel like good things are coming for this country, i don't feel like its going be what we would call America now in fifty years. 1984 isn't a novel, its a warning, and i feel like we are living in it. paul Harvey like 50 years ago on his radio show talked about whats coming, its all pretty much happened. no democracy has ever lasted as long as this one has, and it is doomed to fall. the elite crave power, and we aren't invincible. ok rant over :p

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Gomez
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22-Aug(#18)
@Scots I knew it was only a matter of time before the damn riff raff ran a muck in this dog.
Scots
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22-Aug(#19)
I was agreeing with u bro!
Gomez
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22-Aug(#20)
That doesn't make you not riff raff. Nor did it mean I wasn't damn glad to see you. Us riff raff have to look out for each other. Rufffffffiooooooo!
Osiris
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23-Aug(#21)
Shall we cease employment/education Affirmative Action based on race, if we haven't phased it out already?

Keep it for employment based on gender for a while?
tonymack21
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* 23-Aug(#22)
Osiris wrote:
> Shall we cease employment/education Affirmative Action based on race, if we haven't
> phased it out already?
>
> Keep it for employment based on gender for a while?

that goes against real equality which should be what is strived for, most qualified and best candidate regardless, an employer shouldn't be forced to hire anyone based on anything but whether they think they will be a good fit and can do the job.

I find that equality in our culture these days is something people like when its a benefit only, I see that a lot. not saying for everyone, but for many.

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Osiris
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23-Aug(#23)
Couple things:

--If we had a level playing field in place, equality of opportunity wouldn't be in question. Do we?

---In some professional positions, race/gender/ethnicity is an equal factor with academic and professional qualifications, generally in professional service firms who have diverse clientele. The point is not to sacrifice skills for the other factor, but to recruit actively to source candidates who don't have any compromise in ability but who have the other attribute desired as well.
Karaiya
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* 23-Aug(#24)
In a more perfect world this would work if there were actual equality and diversity in the pool of applicants and if employers actually hired the best qualified applicants. With maybe an exception to government or federal jobs, employers do not hire the best qualified candidates. They hire who best they think fit their company. Many times this includes taking into account what those people look like, their personality, their ethnicity, and gender. Most of the time applicants of color and women are indeed just as qualified or more qualified than their white counterparts. I think the assumption from opponents is that the white male applicants are the most qualified. I believe this is just a result of the disproportionate amount of white men in positions of employment compared to other groups more. There are more white dudes that have good jobs thus, white guys are more qualified for good jobs.

I don't believe that now is the time for ending AA especially, in the education portion that can directly affect the diversity pool of applicants.
Osiris
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23-Aug(#25)
Universities internally generally make demographic diversity a part of admissions decisions to develop an interesting student body, I'm comfortable with that sector's balance.
tonymack21
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* 23-Aug(#26)
my family has been directly impacted negatively by AA, so I am not a fan. i know nationally the picture may not be the same as my company, but in my plant of near 6000 employees there hundreds of women and minorities here who make excellent money and many more than lots of the white guys that work here.

a good fit for the company is a factor i agree, and at times other factors than resume qualifications can be taken into account sure.

"if we had a level playing field in place" i would say yes based on my area and my experiences, they will of course differ from others. but ....does continuing to separate out gender/race in something like AA not just continue to keep us separate and not truly equal?

i don't post in this stuff a lot because i don't like being in the middle of things, Karaiya is one of my top boys to be sure, and i like you too, im just posing questions for thought, im definitely in agreement we have a long way to go in our society but im not sure the roads we are on lead there?

i think we make strides with every generation, i just see some regression lately, largely due to media influence?

maybe im just from small towns, and my experiences have just been different.

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Osiris
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23-Aug(#27)
All depends on the sandbox you play in...
tonymack21
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23-Aug(#28)
ya i definitely see that.

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Gomez
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23-Aug(#29)
AA was a nice idea at the time of it's inception. While we absolutely still have race issues the level of prejudice now isn't what it was. I don't have an issue trying new things but it's been a couple of decades since they first implemented the idea. I think as a way of getting feet through the door and beginning the introduction process where more people of color were introduced to the workforce made it a worthwhile experiment and starting point. But it didn't truely level the playing field. I think there was both value and merit to this at its inception. A welcome long since worn out though.

As somebody mentioned I don't have a huge issue with it (though some) on campuses. Education is still one of those areas where people of color are starting from behind.

Though I think we'd be better served continuing the conversation about racism and bigotry as a part of the healing process that eventually will level the playing field in a non manipulative way. No matter how much we accomplish in this matter there will always be outliers and we won't be able to fix it completely but we can do enough socially, by talking to each other and exchanging points of view to push through this organically. It means having a few awkward and painful conversations but I think in the end that does what AA was supposed to. Hopefully I'm not being nieve.
dracula
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24-Aug(#30)
Prime wrote:
> AA was a nice idea at the time of it's inception. While we absolutely still have
> race issues the level of prejudice now isn't what it was. I don't have an issue trying
> new things but it's been a couple of decades since they first implemented the idea.
> I think as a way of getting feet through the door and beginning the introduction
> process where more people of color were introduced to the workforce made it a worthwhile
> experiment and starting point. But it didn't truely level the playing field. I think
> there was both value and merit to this at its inception. A welcome long since worn
> out though.
>
> As somebody mentioned I don't have a huge issue with it (though some) on campuses.
> Education is still one of those areas where people of color are starting from behind.

California got rid of Affirmative Action twenty years ago. Michigan got rid of it 3 years ago Now their college admissions are all based on merit. You are also totally ignoring the Pocahontas factor: a lot of the people who claim minority status to get into college, are not minorities at all and have no native american blood or black blood, but just check a box to get into the college. Basically all you have to do is say "I identify as black(or in the case of Liz Warren, Native American.) and boom, it is much easier to get into a high powered college that has affirmative action.

Worth watching, if just for the comedy, dude faked being black to get into med school
https://www.rightlyreport.com/almost-black-dude-ba...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzeNtmOwV7M

Topic   Where are all the white people at?