To be clear, I'm not saying that GTZ is actually in trouble, and don't want it to be, I'm just talking about what I've noticed.
I've only been on GTZ for 4 years, approaching 5. The website feels completely different now, almost like a ghost town. When I first joined, there were more forums, more features, and very active. It's the opposite now.
According to the site statistics (if it's accurate), the active users is barely above 1000 (930 users with trades), and only 105 of those are subscribers. There was only 7 trades that pended today, 1172 overall.
Is there a plan to bring in new users? How would we know if GTZ is in trouble? I thought the pandemic would make the website boom again, but that never happened.
> Gypsy wrote:
>> Another one of these threads.
> Right? I don't know how it's possible not to have seen 1 of the 100 similar discussions
> that have taken place over the last couple years, across various forums.
Ready for the here is how I would save TZ with marketing posts and offers to buy the site.
Posted that nearly 2 years ago. But yet we're still here. So I'm grateful for that. At the end of the day Bill holds the keys to the castle. When he wants to end it, then we all have to accept that.
My reply in that topic (just after OP) matches how I still think/feel about it now (2 years later).
> Yes, there's some noticeable decline in activity. But there is also a solid group
> of regulars who want to keep it going. I suspect the decline may level off over
> time. Perhaps we're evolving.
> Financially, the site is fine. People using the amazon link, subscriptions, and
> ads more than cover the costs. If this gets to be a problem in the future, I'll
> let people know.
> I'm not motivated to invest a lot of time/money into the site, but I'm happy to maintain
> it indefinitely. Selling the site to someone else doesn't make sense (too much of
> it is in my head, the technology it's built on is too old, it's priceless to me,
> etc.). Selling the data or migrating it to another site is quite tricky and not
> something I'd do without the consent of each user for their data. So, I think the
> best course is to just ride it out.
> There are potential long-term risks that are hard to predict. I could just die or
> something. Also, the technology the site is built with is old and there could be
> trouble keeping it working or security issues with it. So, no guarantees, but I
> have done all I can to set it up to work automatically and securely.
> I don't think anyone knows for sure what is causing the decline. My best guess is
> the shift to digital downloading of games.
Okay, let's say the website does end up going to the black hole of the internet, whether it's due to digital games taking over, or Bill does what all boomers do, expire. What website would you replace this one with? Reddit? DonLad Trade AKA. LeapTrade? ebay? CAG?
> GameTZ has been in my XBL bio for years, can't help but think this has helped! You're
But did you use gamer words to people in the MW2 lobbies?
> Okay, let's say the website does end up going to the black hole of the internet,
> whether it's due to digital games taking over, or Bill does what all boomers do,
> expire. What website would you replace this one with? Reddit? DonLad Trade AKA.
> LeapTrade? ebay? CAG?
There is no replacement, only Zuul.
> There is no replacement.
Hello darkness my old friend.
> Game trading in general is in decline.
> Things change. ADAPT
It's hard to adapt when the changes are WORSE.
> Go digital or put all your old games into plastic boxes.
Try going digital when you have crap internet, and your starlink order gets delayed by a year.
> Embrace TikTok or whatever replaces it next year.
I'm not a pedophile or a stalker, so I have no use for tiktok, or anything similar to it.
> p.s. I'm Gen-X not Boomer.
>> p.s. I'm Gen-X not Boomer.
> Arguably worse.
So, then you must be one of those lazy "millennials" that won't work, live in their parents basement, and have ruined movie theaters, malls, and cruises?
> Also, did you just blame Bill for your crap internet??
No, I'm making a point that going digital can't happen here yet. Morons like you deserves to get against a wall, with hot lead going your way.
> John wrote:
>> Also, did you just blame Bill for your crap internet??
> No, I'm making a point that going digital can't happen here yet. Morons like you
> deserves to get against a wall, with hot lead going your way.
I just think that you may be missing the point that Bill's site is probably one of the last large sites out there for physical game trading. In other words, he is doing more to support non-digital games than most. I think his recommendation to you to "go digital" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. He pretty clearly is a strong supporter of physical games -- hence why this site even exists.
So, that is why it comes off a bit funny when you rip into Bill (and now suggest that I should be shot??) for running a site that very clearly supports non-digital gamers.
> bluemetal04 wrote:
>> John wrote:
> |>> Also, did you just blame Bill for your crap internet??
>> No, I'm making a point that going digital can't happen here yet. Morons like
>> deserves to get against a wall, with hot lead going your way.
> I just think that you may be missing the point that Bill's site is probably one of
> the last large sites out there for physical game trading. In other words, he is
> doing more to support non-digital games than most. I think his recommendation to
> you to "go digital" was a bit tongue-in-cheek. He pretty clearly is a strong supporter
> of physical games -- hence why this site even exists.
> So, that is why it comes off a bit funny when you rip into Bill (and now suggest
> that I should be shot??) for running a site that very clearly supports non-digital
I'm just saying that I can't go digital, because I have garbage internet, and you know as much as I do that a crapload of people is in the same situation. I'm not ripping bill, or blaming him for it, I'm just responding. The boomer thing is a joke. That joke has been a meme for years now.
Saying things like "So, then you must be one of those lazy "millennials" that won't work, live in their
parents basement, and have ruined movie theaters, malls, and cruises?" That's why I made the "shot" suggestion. I've been wanting to leave the site for a year or so, because I've had more negative experiences with the site than positive ever since I joined, but I still have pending trades that dates back to Jan 2019. Been waiting to receive that stuff before I go.
The owner doesn't care about the website, why should you (or anyone else)? Why is a lot of users, including the veterans and mods, crapty people? When I first joined the website, I was harassed in the chat by several veteran members, and when bill stepped in, he would just be making jokes about it. The mods didn't do crap either. I've gotten a week suspension once, and several PMs from bill, because I was standing up for myself, in a way that you probably know by this point. When he messages me to stop, I would. But, I will never apologize for it, and would do it again. If that makes me a crapty person for doing so, then it is what it is. When I get the idiotic responses like the "lazy millennial one", I will respond back in a way you, and others, won't like. That's how I am, and it will never change.
Personally I can't wait for Microsoft and Sony to say fudge it and go all digital, if only to see LRG go bankrupt trying to convince kids to keep buying $30 Gameboy repros under the auspices of "game preservation"... Doom on Switch from LRG requires an online account link before you can play it, PC recently was sold a physical release they decided was too low volume so they shipped digital download keys instead. Good company!
We could do with less of that sorta junk. Hot take, I'm sure, I just don't care. The one time I decided to give these clowns money was for books, a non-limited self publication and supposedly "on hand", and they took a month and a half to ship half my order and charged me $28 (to ship, media, in a bubble envelope) and they lost half my order but told me I could use my one and only "courtesy cancel" to get a refund after they said they couldn't confirm whether they'd shipped it at all. So I might be a little salty. I bet Bill could do better for less. In fact, I know he has, but I'm sure Limited Run Games is just a small indie company so.
...wait, I got off track, what we talkin now? Oh, someone deciding Bill doesn't care about the site (which is why he's ensured it can continue to operate with minimal investment and intervention to futureproof it of course), fo sho fo sho, let's line em up on The Wall
> I'm just saying that I can't go digital, because I have garbage internet, and you
> know as much as I do that a crapload of people is in the same situation. I'm not
> ripping bill, or blaming him for it, I'm just responding. The boomer thing is a
> joke. That joke has been a meme for years now.
And yet when I made the same joke about millenials -- and them being lazy, non-workers is also just a meme for years -- you sent me a private message saying that you aren't all like that and calling me a "fudging moron." The fact that you don't see the incredible hypocrisy in that is amazing to me. You make a Boomer "joke" and it's "just a joke." I make the exact same Millennial "joke" at you -- and I'm a "fudging moron." Nice.
> The owner doesn't care about the website,
Yeah, that just isn't true and I'm done talking to you about it.
> If that makes me a crapty person for doing so, then it is what it is.
It is indeed what it is, I guess.
> When I get the
> idiotic responses like the "lazy millennial one", I will respond back in a way you,
> and others, won't like. That's how I am, and it will never change.
Again, you made a Boomer joke and Bill mentioned that he was Gen-X and not a Boomer. You replied that was even worse. It didn't come off as a "joke meme" -- it came off as you ripping into Bill, IMO. So I make the SAME JOKE back to you as a Millennial -- and you get all riled up about it! Why is it "just a joke" when you did it -- twice -- and yet when someone does the same joke for your "age group", it is suddenly no longer a joke and you're all offended by it and feel the need to defend yourself?
You can't have it both ways -- and that's exactly what you're trying to do here.
> The owner doesn't care about the website, why should you (or anyone else)? Why is
> a lot of users, including the veterans and mods, crapty people? When I first joined
> the website, I was harassed in the chat by several veteran members, and when bill
> stepped in, he would just be making jokes about it. The mods didn't do crap either.
> I've gotten a week suspension once, and several PMs from bill, because I was standing
> up for myself, in a way that you probably know by this point. When he messages me
> to stop, I would. But, I will never apologize for it, and would do it again. If
> that makes me a crapty person for doing so, then it is what it is. When I get the
> idiotic responses like the "lazy millennial one", I will respond back in a way you,
> and others, won't like. That's how I am, and it will never change.
bill puts in a lot of behind the scenes efforts that most people don't see. Whether it's internal site-based stuff, trying to help defuse angry trade disputes, responding to forum moderation requests, etc. you have no idea of the amount of time he puts in for practically no financial return. It's a thankless job most of the time, and even he has moments of frustration like everyone else.
You want to know why Goozex, 99gamers, etc. failed while gametz is still around? It's because the head honchos of those sites focused too much on making money for themselves to the detriment of the community. There was a time long ago when trading on GameTZ was subscription only. If bill had decided to keep that business model, I have no doubt we would have been on that list of failed trading websites many years ago.
That being said, if you want to leave the site for a while, you could freeze your account and take a break. Maybe you'll miss this place and come back, or maybe you'll find a world of freedom out there.
Regarding the pending trades from 2019, if those users are still active, send them a message. If they aren't active or don't respond to messages, think about filling a BTR. It won't necessarily get the trade done, but it may provide some closure.
I thought the sarcasm behind your comment about millennials was pretty clear. Some people just love drama. John wrote:
> He's PM'ed me again telling me that stereotyping is wrong.. All because he stereotyped
> Boomers and Gen-Xers, and then I did the same with Millennials to try to show him
> why stereotyping is bad. The fact that he doesn't see the hypocrisy is amazing to
> Just so everyone is clear... I do not really think that all Millennials are lazy,
> non-workers. I called him that only to show that it wasn't true, of course. Yet
> he does continue to tell me how Boomers and Gen-Xers are apparently all the same
> and ruining everything... Um, yeah, you can't tell me stereotyping is wrong in one
> breath and then stereotype everyone in the next breath without me pointing out the
I think the decline primarily has to do with shipping prices. It's gotten too expensive to make small trades. This started happening nearly a decade ago.
> I sometimes think the hostility in the forums is the cause for the decline. But,
> it may be the opposite. Maybe all the anger is the fuel that keeps us going.
Some of that crap bothered me, but my solution was to ignore the entire General Forum. If I wanted random internet opinions there are way more than enough places to find them. By ignoring that whole forum I largely avoid that drivel.
New users probably think it's sus af to send first to some rando on the internet no cap. High key, we need to bring back BookTZ. That ish slaps fr fr
I agree there's less hostility these days. It seems correlated with the decline. Less users, less trouble, perhaps.
I was thinking more about the hostility that sellers get in marketplace forums. e.g. https://gametz.com/Classifieds/modded-nintendo-swi...
Not crazy bad, but I think it shows the prevalent hostility or just a kind of GTZ-norms policing that goes on. Even if we somehow got a lot of new users to sign up, I think we could easily scare them off.
Many years ago when we had a good number of new users coming in daily, we also saw that we lost 95% or more of them. Mentors were added to try to address that, but despite real effort by a lot of good people, it didn't make much difference. Retention seemed like the real problem.
This is all water under the bridge, though. I don't mean to argue or rehash all the old topics we had about this. I don't know why the decline happened. I don't think any of us do. Most likely, the forces in play that are behind the rise and fall of GTZ are beyond our control.
The score system is pure aids and aleays has been.
It's just so hard to argue with ebay, other than the prices.
Buy it now seems to be the norm rather than auctions, which reduces frustration from buyers getting sniped at the last minute, and reduces anxiety from sellers who are hoping to get a certain price. Haggling and negotiating are hardly a thing there - some sellers opt for a "best offer" button, and sometimes if you add an item to your watch list a seller might send an offer at a slight discount, but that's it.
Compare that to people here who call a topic an "interest check," or won't even provide a price when asked. Or who do not want to sell ever, and only want to trade for items on their wanted list, even when said items are ridiculously expensive in comparison to what they have available.
If you're watching the forums you can often get a decent deal here, but if you have a specific want in mind, it's so much simpler to just hit up ebay and you're done. Same story for selling. A lot of us list here first as a gesture of loyalty to the community, but so many sale posts just sit there. And if we list on eBay, many times they're sold within a day or two.
Trading on GameTZ is hard work nowadays compared to the alternatives, and very few people want to invest that time anymore.
You can get negged for prices that are lower than anywhere else on the internet.
> You can get negged for prices that are lower than anywhere else on the internet.
While true, that is not the case for that Switch lol.
> Is ebay in decline? I assume it is, but I have no proof. It just doesn't seem
> like normal people use it that much anymore.
Mercari has pretty aggressively went after the soccer mom/garage sale seller market. Trying to make the listing process as easy as possible from your phone as well.
That doesn't really impact my selling/buying on eBay but would be a reason for a decline.
> I agree there's less hostility these days. It seems correlated with the decline.
> Less users, less trouble, perhaps.
I think the fact that you've become quicker to ban problematic users has played a big role in this.
> I was thinking more about the hostility that sellers get in marketplace forums.
> Not crazy bad, but I think it shows the prevalent hostility or just a kind of GTZ-norms
> policing that goes on. Even if we somehow got a lot of new users to sign up, I think
> we could easily scare them off.
It always seems to be the same users driving most of this...
> But, yes, if we're being honest, I think when you post a modded item and it says
> "Message for more details", that is usually hidden meaning text for "the 400GB SD
> card is full of every pirated switch game."
Gasp emoji, nooooo! It's just a 400GB SD card, come on dude
I imagine many of us live in a glass house when it comes to pirating.
It can seem like seller harassment to me. That topic last month
got me overly focuse on this way of seeing it.
On the other hand, it's also a kind of policing of norms for our site. e.g. We don't use ALLCAPS here. We hate high prices, flippers, pirates, etc. These things help give our community meaning and cohesion. The posts that make fun of the seller becomes an enjoyable social experience. Most groups do this in some way. I don't mean to focus on this to point my finger at people doing it.
> EBay has gotten bigger, I think, but it is just the new Alibaba version of Amazon.
> It's all people selling crap imports like a store.
I noticed Etsy is like this now too.
> Facebook Marketplace
I also get the impression Facebook is in decline. That may be just wishful thinking, though.
p.s. Thanks for defending me and other kind things people have said here.
What about tipping?
> Facebook Marketplace is like Pawn Stars. Offer a $100 item for $20, you get $5 offers.
That's what it was like for me trying to sell a meridian bike by schwinn. I wanted $150 for it because it was used and I paid $263 for it when it was new. but I also bundled it with fresh tires, bike tools, a couple bike chains and tire inner tubes for all three tires.
Back to back, I kept getting people going "All I've got is $100...can you do $100?" and I just kept brushing them off.
I had a guy from Facebook Marketplace once agree to a price and, then, when we met up, try to say that he was a little short and pay me $5 less. I started to walk away. He "remembered" he had the other $5 in his car and paid what we agreed on.
> I love that "all I have is x" excuse. Okay, if that's all you have I would recommend
> buying food.
Yeah, fudgein' poors
> I had a guy from Facebook Marketplace once agree to a price and, then, when we met
> up, try to say that he was a little short and pay me $5 less. I started to walk
> away. He "remembered" he had the other $5 in his car and paid what we agreed on.
Haha a guy shorted me $5 for like $400+ worth if weathertec i was selling for like $30 on Craigslist. I didn't bother counting because i thought the deal was so good for him already. The selling apps are full of bullcrapters too. What is the point of asking if i have it still and never following up?
I use ebay quite a bit for buying. I automatically ignore any listings with stock photos, and I know what I'm looking for in terms of whether something is authentic.
I don't sell much anymore, but I don't have any issues selling things on eBay. Take good pics, use the word authentic or legit in your listing, sell authentic products, and have a competitive price, and unless it's just something no one wants it tends to sell fairly quickly, often with no questions asked.
Granted, i don't tend to sell high dollar items there, so folks are probably a little less picky.
I don't buy anything at all on FB marketplace, Mercado, etc. I go to etsy sometimes for some fun and inexpensive things that always seem to come from eastern Europe. I don't buy things that are claiming to be other brands there, though - I'm looking for stuff that isn't readily available outside of custom orders
> I don't buy nearly as much as I used, I do a bit of buying on eBay and Mercari, but
> most of the time I just wait for a GameTZ auction. And of my trusty local thrift
> store and flea market.
We had some real legit auctions recently from bonham and shadyfozzie. Got my SNES that got me back playing and collecting from that.
I'm actually surprised the physical preservation movement and popularity of limited run games and similar companies hasn't given gtz a boost.