Naughty Dog definitely fooled me with the trailers
I always thought she was on a revenge path due to the group killing and possibly raping Dina. At least that was what I got from the trailer. I even thought while playing last week, that Dina would die at some point near the end game. I dont know if that was just my interpretation of the trailer or if it was on purpose and they fooled everyone.
Unfortunately I did read about his death on a random youtube video title on my recommended, but I never thought it would happen near the beginning of the game.
> Naughty Dog definitely fooled me with the trailers ...
Thats what I thought from the trailers too and what I thought going into the game as I avoided as leaks and everything as I could, I am not one who spends a great deal of time on social media so I had heard there where a bunch of spoiler memes about so I stayed away as well.
> I guess the voice actress for Abby does a lot of Anime. Makes sense, but I don't
> think I've seen anything she's done.
You've definitely seen stuff she's done. She was Nadine in Uncharted 4, Mary Jane in Spider-Man, Kaine in the OG Nier, Fetch in Infamous Second Son, Kait in Gears 5. Tons more. She's legit one of the best in the biz. Can't believe she's getting death threats. So sad.
I expect her to win all the awards for her role as Abby. She was amazing!
> |>> I guess the voice actress for Abby does a lot of Anime. Makes sense, but I don't
> |>> think I've seen anything she's done.
>> You've definitely seen stuff she's done. She was Nadine in Uncharted 4, Mary Jane
>> in Spider-Man, Kaine in the OG Nier, Fetch in Infamous Second Son, Kait in Gears
>> 5. Tons more. She's legit one of the best in the biz. Can't believe she's getting
>> death threats. So sad.
>> I expect her to win all the awards for her role as Abby. She was amazing!
> It'll be trigger city all over again if she did win anything for it.
Fingers crossed then lol. It's comical seeing people get triggered over the dumbest crap. I mean who the hell goes around sending death threats to voice actresses? How sad must your life be to have to resort to something like that?
> You must've explored everywhere with that play time.
I *thought* I had, but when it gave me the stats at the end, I missed a number of collectables and stuff. I thought I had hit every nook and cranny. I'll have to turn on that pinging thing next time I play.
I'm still exhausted from this game. Just thinking about it makes me tired.
Firstly, I TOTALLY thought that when you play as Abby and get to the movie theater the game was going to end there. Abby shoots Tommy (and I was like NOOOOO) and then that fight in the theater - I thought this was going to be the end.
So when it picked up at the farmhouse I got all tingly, because I was so sure the game was going to end, so I had NO idea where it was going to go from here. Crazy.
I remember when Halo 2 came out and halfway through the game you play as Arbiter. It was the same kind of shock back then (and lots of negative response to that as well)
Some of the stuff in the Abby portion was pretty incredible; the Scars moving from skyscraper to skyscraper by those rickety ladders and platforms. Learning that the sniper was Tommy, that gosh darn Rat King thing in the bottom of the hospital - that was a total jump scare when it happened. I LOVED the idea of having something that hasn't been touched since the initial outbreak, 30 years ago. This giant, mutated thing that has just been sitting there, growing and mutating. Good stuff.
This story is a brutal story. It's about the selfish decisions we make, the inability to deal with traumatic events, pushing people away ... it's got tons to digest. It was heartbreaking watching Ellie put that guitar down and seeing her abandon her past in that room and just walk away, alone. That's a knife-to-the-heart ending. She couldn't deal with her feelings about Joel; she couldn't accept he was gone, and he was taken from her just when she was trying to forgive him. She was denied her ability to forgive him in person. I'm so sad to see what an empty vessel she became because of her rage (and Tommy - showing up just so he can start crap again. Gah!)
For those that saw Tommy get shot, he *did* get shot, somewhere in the face area. When he shows up at the farm, his right eye is squinting/closed and you can see scars. Plus his leg limp.
I usually hate movies that are downers. Stuff like "Boys Don't Cry" where you are basically watching someone suffer for two hours. And in this game, I'm controlling someone how can't get past her rage or her need for revenge. And I'm like "she doesn't need to be doing this." It's watching terrible people in a terrible situation doing terrible things.
I love that there is no "hero" in this series. It's all people just doing what they can to survive in a new world. I want Ellie to be innocent, like she was in the first game, but she's been exposed to people that aren't innocent and she's learned she has to do what she can to survive, and her caregiver was someone that put his needs before everyone else's (literally! - the whole world!).
Abby's portion of the game got me a little invested in her, but the result they wanted the player to feel I don't think could happen in the amount of time the game gave her. I'm invested in Joel and Ellie because they've been in my mind for 7 years now since the first game. It's a deeper connection. With Abby it was too new for me. Only giving me three in-game days to discover those kids, and turn on her group - it was just too sudden for me. I get that the purpose of her character was to get to that scene with her carrying Rev down the shore from the burning gang building, just as Joel did with Ellie from the hospital in the first game - but it all still felt too sudden. But, man, when you find her tied to that thing on the beach - she was just withered. So thin and drained. It was really powerful to see her physically, and probably emotionally, destroyed.
That final battle in the water - I didn't want to do it. I didn't want it to happen. But Ellie just couldn't stop. The game was successful in that aspect. I don't want this. I don't want to be her if this is what being her is supposed to be. Just stop.
The ending to the first game was perfect. I didn't want another game, because if you make another game, you have to deal with the decision that was made at the end of the first game. I was wondering how they were going to deal with it. Doe she know? Does she not know? What a tough road to go down. His choice and the ramifications of that choice.
I'm not sure we need a 3rd game. I'm not sure I want a 3rd game. In this game, Ellie is kinda elevated to almost superhero status. I mean, really - killing *that* many people and taking that much damage?
But I want to know that she's going to be ok. I hate watching her walk across that field into the woods, and not being able to see what is going to happen. She deserves a happy ending, but given all that she's done in the 2nd game, does she really deserve a happy ending? Isn't she just as bad as the Scars? Or the Santa Barbara group? A flawed character who's choice was taken away from her. I hope she went back to Tommy's group.
I love this game. This game sickens me. It's too depressing. It's too good. It's all of that.
Just rethinking about it again is exhausting. I need another break.
> I'm still exhausted from this game. Just thinking about it makes me tired.
I also thought it was going to end there and I would be pissed if it did. Thankfully it keeps going, and everything after that is fantastic, even the weapons and enemies.
Finding Abby at the pillars was brutal, my favorite part of the game. Whatever she experienced there was probably payback for what she did, thats how I feel. I loved that she found Lev and his sister. They give meaning to seeing her story, much much more than finding out her reasons for doing what she did. Hearing about the banter between them about the Seraphite/Scar culture was fantastic, and the overall mission was a very nice break from all the revenge killing.
Lev going rebel because he didnt want to be some Elder's wife? Jesus...
I think Tommy getting mad at them was probably the weakest writing in the game. I liked that he went there to inform her, but getting mad because they said no? I dont know.
>> I'm still exhausted from this game. Just thinking about it makes me tired.
> I also thought it was going to end there and I would be pissed if it did. Thankfully
> it keeps going, and everything after that is fantastic, even the weapons and enemies.
I think Tommy being mad was representative of where his head was at - he lost pretty much everything, and he was maimed from Abby finding him, so he was angry and a shell of himself at that point. It was sad to see, more than being bad writing, to me at least.
So I started the game last night (borrowed my friend's copy). I'm about 5 hours in.
Just found Leah dead at the TV Station in Seattle. I knew most of the overarching spoilers going in - Joel dying, the switch to Abby, et cetera. But I am still being surprised by the smaller moments and the moment-to-moment stuff.
Man, the gameplay is so smooth and well-done. I didn't really like the gameplay of the first, but still thought highly of it. So far this is a 10/10 for me. It's a big improvement in gameplay and the graphics and story are well done so far.
It'd be pretty amusing if someone out there did game-play runs of games and at the end criticize it for forcing hetero relationships.
Apparently the Swedish Nazi YouTuber beat it and said at the end the gay relationships and other things detracted the experience.. While I could believe it, I'm sure it's also just him pandering to his mindless followers who probably do hate the game without playing it.
> So I started the game last night (borrowed my friend's copy). I'm about 5 hours in.
> Man, the gameplay is so smooth and well-done. I didn't really like the gameplay of
> the first, but still thought highly of it. So far this is a 10/10 for me. It's a
> big improvement in gameplay and the graphics and story are well done so far.
Yeah, the gameplay in 2 is on another level. The mediocre gameplay in the first game is one of the reasons I think it's a bit overrated. 2 really is the complete package. Far from perfect but overall a better game than the first, imo.
I'm eager to read your impressions as you get a little further into the game.
The gameplay in 2 has made it difficult for me to play various other games I've tried since beating it. There were some glitches at times but the running and gunning and dodging was so smooth, it just felt good.
I didnt mind the flashbacks, I just think the overall pacing was off.
I'm thinking maybe this should have been Abby's story from the outset, and then surprise switch to Ellie later instead of the way they did it. I still love the game, but I think some things could have been easily improved upon.
Abby story and character are a sort of foil / allusion to Joel. She has a horrible personal trauma, meets another survivor and takes on a parental role. In the end Ellie realizes this cycle and the goodness in Abby when she sees Joel on the porch in her damascene vision- stops beating abby's ass. The story theme is almost exactly the same- Life can be crapty and hard but relationships with people transcend that. The tragedy being that Ellie ends up alone to understand self serving feats are fleeting and finding someone to survive with / for is a blessing. Her mission to put Joel to rest ends with him not only being diminished in her eyes, but she also loses the ability to use the biggest gift he gave her when her fingers get chopped off. Even in this fungal taint Ellie had a chance to be special and protect literally everyone by helping develop the vaccine- instead she's alone and can't even help protect the people she has relationships with. Very sad story bro.
If you google "hate playing," "hate playing as abby" is the first suggested search result. Haha.
I knew why they have you play as Abby going in, but I still don't see the point in it. I'm not going to give a crap about anyone but Ellie and company. I mean, let's face it, what they did in the first game made you care about Ellie on a deep level. No fudging way you're going to give a crap about Abby or connect with the "two sides to every story" thing (even if it does make sense).
> If you google "hate playing," "hate playing as abby" is the first suggested search
> result. Haha.
> I knew why they have you play as Abby going in, but I still don't see the point in
> it. I'm not going to give a crap about anyone but Ellie and company. I mean, let's
> face it, what they did in the first game made you care about Ellie on a deep level.
> No fudging way you're going to give a crap about Abby or connect with the "two sides
> to every story" thing (even if it does make sense).
> This is just my opinion, of course
GAMEPLAY wise, I enjoyed Abby's sections a bit more, because I liked her weapons more and her encounters could be more fun due to her different style. Story wise though, yeah, for me it was impossible to have even close to the same attachment to her as I did to Ellie.
I wasn't too high on Abby until I saw how irrational Ellie was being in the last few scenes- then I started thinking about how Abby literally used this WLF group to exact her revenge on Joel for pretty much ending the possibility of a cure by killing her father in cold blood, with no attempt at diplomacy etc. The guy did not want to kill Ellie for the cure but unlike Joel he was detached enough (barely) to make the hard choice. Abby made the same relationship based hard decisions as Joel did.
Having two daughters myself now the overriding themes of father daughter / paternal bonds being strong, often even stronger than blood- it hits home. Nothing about what happens is confusing or doesn't make sense. It actually makes perfect sense because these characters are driven by instinct and base desires more so than rational calculated decisions. If I had to make Joel's decision in that scenario the doctor dies. If I had to make Abby's decision after what happened to my father- Joel dies. Ellie's actions are weird because she does not know what we know about Abby, but you get a feeling that she may.
Perhaps one of the coolest things that happened, at least IMO is when Abby shoots Joel and he eventually says "C'mon, get your pre-prepared speech out of the way and get it over with." Something like that.
He probably even made her choose to torture him by goading her like that - and IIRC Abby acts like Joel knows who she is. He never met her. He honestly probably doesn't care either.
This game really should have just been Ellie systematically going after each of them, one-by-one, until she got to Abby, who is then her final boss battle. Shoot, I'd even have settled for them having to put their conflict aside to find a different final boss, but this was just bullcrap. Yeah, the ending for Ellie is fine and all, but virtually everything Abbys was awful, IMO. ND really messed up on this one. It's not a bad game, and the Abby parts are great, but what a disappointment. 7 years for a sequel and then this.
it's pretty awesome I thought. It fills the gaps really well, and shows you how you ended up at that midpoint and what happens after. She has a different weapon and skill-set and her story is really good, they did an amazing job I think with the game, and both play styles and both characters' stories are really good
I haven't played another game since finishing this. That's how strongly and how much of a lasting effect the game had with me.
At first I was ripped that right in the middle of the game they made me play some bullcrap character that I had no history with. I'm kinda over that now, through. I get what they were trying to do, and though I don't think they were totally successful with their reasoning, when I go back for my 2nd play through (and there will be many - just like I have with the first game) I'll be okay with it.
Partly the hangup is me; not only did I bond with the two characters in the first game, but I've had seven years to know who these two are. Of course it's going to feel weird playing a LoU game without controlling one of the two main characters. But this world is bigger than these two characters.
I do feel that Abby's arc was impossible to do given that it all happens in three in-game days. Joel took, what, something like eight months going from Boston to out west with Ellie? In three days I'm supposed to believe that she would feel so much sympathy and bonding with Rev that she would turn against her group? I wasn't completely convinced with that arc.
However, I do understand her need for revenge. It's the same kind of revenge that Ellie feels. So they share something in common. Plus, raise your hand if you honestly think Joel was a saint. He wasn't. And when he tells Abby to get her rehearsed speech over with and get on with it, you can see some of that pre-Ellie Joel. The hardened guy that does anything to survive. Just because he's adopted a new daughter, that underlying character is still that that had been for over twenty years. So he wasn't an angel.
I'm okay with what the game give us. I'm okay with the story. I'm okay with opening things up to accept that there are other people out there in the LoU world and I'm okay if they want to transition to a different person. This is a tale about revenge and the lengths people go through to try to feel whole again. And that both people that we control in this game isn't going about things in the right way. Revenge doesn't get us anywhere.
I finished the game a few weeks ago. I'm okay with Abby. I'm okay with her being in the game. I'm okay with her wanting revenge. I'm okay with controlling her and seeing some of her story.
I'm okay with the game as a whole, and I'm glad that I get two games set in the LoU universe.
I think the biggest problem the game has is the pacing. But now that I think about it, Naughty Dog has had the same issue before, with almost all the Uncharteds and the first TLOU. Still, I see that they tried to change things up from time to time, it just wasnt enough. Things like the semi open area with the Horse was a good change, the boat, and a few other sections were good changeups. Some others went on for too long, like the Museum flashback for instance. I think they knew they had that problem and tried to fix it, they did a good job...not great.
I do have a few nitpicks here and there, but nothing worth subtracting from a final score. I wish the game had more stealth kill animations. Its always the same basically. Melee finishers are insanely impressive on the other hand.....strange.
I do understand the hate for Abby, she is easy to hate, even if she had reasons. However, I actually enjoyed playing as her right up until youre playing her against Ellie. Why do I have to beat up Ellie??? That was just stupid. Probably the stupidest decision they made in the game. I let Ellie kill me like 10 times and it was great though. Now that I think about it more, it is definitely not a nitpick, thats a big Con for me.
Still, I think this game is simply amazing, there are scenes in both these games that hit me hard, some of them are simply brilliant. The scene where Joel loses his daughter makes my eyes watery every single time I watch it. The ending to the first game is absolutely perfect, IMO. In this game it is Joel's song to Ellie, and every time she tries to play it but cant...that crap hits the feels.
Even though I think it is fantastic, I have to agree with whoever said this here, TLOU didnt need a sequel. And TLOU 2 definitely doesnt need one. I hope they dont make another one, even if it ends up being amazing.
I finally finished it. Thank you everyone for posting, it's been nice to read and see other's opinions and kind of decompress after the journey of the game. Here are some of my thoughts.
I made it a point to avoid spoilers. I muted "Joel" "Ellie" Last of Us" and "TLOU2" on twitter. But still someone posted in a comment section of IGN on an article that wasn't about this game "Ellie Kills Joel". And I was furious. However, it added to my surprise when that turned out to not be true. Also, Naughty Dog straight up making fake cutscenes in the trailers that show different characters and dialog is genius
The opening was beautiful. Troy Baker's Joel is such a warm welcome return. His retelling of the story of the first game just gives me chills. I loved the entire first hour of the game and I felt so sad for Joel who is desperately trying to get back into Ellie's good graces. I myself having disappointed loved ones in the past, I just ached for him. He loved Ellie. And he "saved" her, but their relationship was tarnished forever. It was sad to see that they never really had that bond again
When playing as Abby the first time and the horde attacks and you think you're stuck and then Tommy and Joel show up and save the day I wanted to high five someone. And for Abby to still shoot and torture him was awful and I wanted nothing more than to get revenge on Abby right away.
I appreciate the open world part of the game. The game-play is 100x better than the first. I dreaded playing the first game because of how unforgiving it was. The checkpoints are better, save points are better, overall made for a more pleasant experience to play the game.
Are you kidding me? They made me slog through another 10 HOURS as Abby in the exact same place?? I felt this whole section was a waste of time. I didn't need to empathize with Abby. Yeah she's got friends. Who cares. So does Ellie. So did Joel. And for it all to end with a freaking "Avatar/Ferngully" finale of a runaway savior to try and stop the attack on the scars was utterly meaningless. And since you know from Ellie's part of the story exactly what happens to every one of Abby's friends, there is no tension or surprise when characters die. This whole section should have been half as long, if not shorter. The only explanation I can come up with is it shows that after Abby's revenge, we see the cost of it. She loses her friends and loses herself. It foreshadows the pain that Ellie suffers because she won't quit.
Ellie's PTSD was a good way of jump-starting the story because it felt like it came to a screeching halt at this point. I hope Tommy and Maria work it out. Tommy was always just trying to help. Dina didn't deserve to get shafted either. She could have held a grudge against Ellie for getting Jesse killed because of her revenge mission. But she was trying to move on and still love Ellie but Ellier bailed on her like a drug addict who wouldn't stop.
Pacing is a weird issue in this game. You're in gray foggy Seattle for 20 hours going through the same places over and over again. And then you only get 2 hours in Santa Barbara which has new weapons, new enemies, new areas. Seattle should have wrapped up faster and I would have sympathized with Abby more on a journey with Lev after the fact. One that shows her trying to move on. Realizing that revenge on Joel ultimately ruined her life and got all her friends killed. But instead it was like Naughty Dog suddenly looked at the clock and was like Oh Crap it's been 5 years. We better just wrap it up and end the game. We spend hours with Abby in Seattle doing things we already know and then Ellie finds her tied up and dying. Why couldn't we see what happened during that time? It's way more interesting. The last fight was brutal and you didn't want either one to win. No one wins in this. It's all selfish and brutal. Ellie losing her fingers and can't play the guitar anymore was tragic. She lost Joel. She lost Dina. She lost her only way to remember Joel. She gave it up for revenge and didn't learn her lesson. For anyone wondering, the title screen changes the backdrop. That building that it shows is not the Rattler hideout, it's the building in Catalina that the fireflies are at. Meaning Abby and Lev made it. Well, at least one of them.
Abby being buff doesn't matter, Ellie being gay doesn't matter. I don't know why people got so upset about all that. I saw mean comments saying that the game targets and hates Christians which I didn't get at all. In fact I appreciated the conversations about prayer and faith that were sprinkled in here and there.
At the end of TLOU1 I was shaken. It stayed with me for months or even years. I still think about that "I swear" that Joel gives. What a way to end. TLOU2 doesn't do that. It's ultimately, I feel, an unnecessary story that didn't need to be told. Nothing uplifting. Nothing important. Nothing to take away other than everyone is still awful in this awful world. The game is a 10 though. You can't deny it. If you say otherwise you either didn't play it or you're determined to hate it regardless. It's so well crafted and interesting. Sure I had issues with the pacing and time spent in certain areas. But it doesn't take away from the great game that it was. I have mostly nitpicks and negative things here, but Naughty Dog is just so good at what they do and I'm glad they do it.
Phew, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I don't have a podcast, so I had to tell someone!
> I finally finished it. Thank you everyone for posting, it's been nice to read and
> see other's opinions and kind of decompress after the journey of the game. Here are
> some of my thoughts.
> Pre-release Spoilers
> More Seattle
> The Farm
> Last Act
> Final thoughts
> Phew, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I don't have a podcast, so I had
> to tell someone!
My biggest issue with playing as Abby is that we had absolutely no indication of how long the Seattle part with her would take. At first, I thought it might be a quick flashback, an hour or two, just like others had been. So I wasn't really concerned with scavenging for supplies, conserving ammo, or overall exploring. I was just trying to get through it as quick as possible to (hopefully) return to the theater seen and back to playing as Ellie ASAP. But then, 2 hours turns into 4, into 8, into 10-12. By the end, I actually enjoyed playing with Abby and wish I would've cherished the time a bit more, since her weapons and arsenal are fun. So in hindsight for me, it wasn't that her playtime was too long, but it was just so unexpected that I couldn't enjoy it until the last few hours (which, maybe, is what Druckman was trying to do all along? Start us off hating Abby and wanting to get back to Ellie to only miss playing as Abby as our time with her was coming to an end? Who knows). I wish the game could've somehow given us a better indication of how long the switch would take so that I could enjoy my time as Abby more.