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| Author | Message |
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mentalpowers
  
 
| | #1 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:46pm (EDT) |
So what is everyone's stance on items in this game and the others in the series? I saw in the tournament thread that few people seem to want them. Why exactly?
I personally think items are great (at least in Melee; I haven't had the time to set up my Wii and try this one). The controls for the game are so simplistic that it adds a bit more to the strategy. Sure, sometimes luck is involved in getting an especially good item, but you still need to know how to use it properly and execute. For instance, one kid I play with just chucks the homerun bat off the level so nobody can use it because he doesn't use it especially well and I do. Even when someone gets the hammer (and it doesn't break) you're not screwed, and that person isn't invincible.
I just feel that items are such an integral part of the game.
I also find it strange that people would want to only play Final Destination, but that's another question for another day. |
alexander8
 
| | #2 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:47pm (EDT) |
there like turning on grenades in a war game just get real hectic and out of control like g nade noobs but item noobs |
sinnie
 
| | #3 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:49pm (EDT) |
I have always loved the pokeballs. I'm not too familar with all the items now because I just got it tonight and my husband is hogging it. I did notice the hammer now destroys whatever you're standing on so now the wielder has to watch out too. I personally love them, it's what makes the game great. It's all madness without them anyway with the crazy backgrounds. They distract me more then the items.
s i n n i e
http://www.ephiny.net |
MyAlterEgo
(frozen)
| | #4 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:49pm (EDT) |
Items suck.
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Yamas
 
| | #5 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:50pm (EDT) |
4 player, I like items. They add a fun part of the game. But 1v1 no items and FD. Why? It takes you to the root of the game and fighting games in general. A flat course and pure fighting skill. No lucky assist trophies or pokeballs. No BS OHKO Final Smash (Though I do love that sometimes  ). Basically this leaves no reason for excuses when you lose. The other person is simply better than you.
mackey wrote:
> One day you'll see the trade: bill gets: $50 Walmart
> Gift Card, BoB gets: GameTZ.
Check out the GameTZ Freebie Forum |
Corona
| | #6 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:50pm (EDT) |
I like them too, but if someone wants to turn then off then its okay with me. |
mentalpowers
| | #7 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:53pm (EDT) |
I would get so bored just playing FD without items. Using terrain and items to one's advantage is a huge factor in a player's skill if you ask me. I would never feel cheated if someone beat me with an item. |
sinnie
| | #8 posted March 10, 2008 at 9:54pm (EDT) |
I also never feel cheated being beat by an item because it's usually like: "WOAH! that was cool!" I never get mad when I lose on smash brothers, but on other games I can get pretty angry.
s i n n i e
http://www.ephiny.net |
Scorch
| #9 posted March 10, 2008 at 10:02pm (EDT)
edited March 10, 2008 at 10:03pm (EDT) |
Yamas wrote:
> 4 player, I like items. They add a fun part of the game. But 1v1 no
> items and FD. Why? It takes you to the root of the game and fighting
> games in general. A flat course and pure fighting skill. No lucky
> assist trophies or pokeballs. No BS OHKO Final Smash (Though I do
> love that sometimes ). Basically this leaves no reason for excuses
> when you lose. The other person is simply better than you.
^basically same^
They never benefit me, so they're always off. I only have Final Smashes on cause they're cool looking.
 [/URL]
Super Smash Bros. Brawl Official Forum |
ChosenWarrior
 
| | #10 posted March 10, 2008 at 10:04pm (EDT) |
If it's a matter of who is better than another than no items would be the way to go, as you would have no excuse if you lose, but for everything else i usually like the items, from Melee my favorite item was definitely the pokeball and sometimes i would just toggle all other items off and just leave the pokeball when playing a friend |
Organization_XIII
| | #11 posted March 10, 2008 at 11:28pm (EDT) |
I love pokeballs and assist trophies |
sandman235
| | #12 posted March 11, 2008 at 4:47pm (EDT) |
Only Items we play with in my pad are Assist Trophies and Smash Balls. |
Nintendo
| | #13 posted March 12, 2008 at 1:19am (EDT) |
I love playing with items. Not so much in a tournament environment, 'cause I think that should be a bit more 'proper', but when just playing any other match, I think they're a blast. Adds a nice dimension of luck and ability to hunt down stuff.
 |
BrambleClaw
| | #14 posted April 17, 2008 at 10:09pm (EDT) |
i love most items. ofcourse it can be cheap though. and i also wonder. why only FD? sometimes there isn't much skill in it. i noticed while playing with my friend that he does good on FD only cause it's flat so he doesn't have to jump. if there were other maps we used then it adds more to skill rather then who get's the ground. |
Scorch
| | #15 posted April 17, 2008 at 10:48pm (EDT) |
I always play no items when I can. Cause it just doesn't feel like a real win when I win using items. Which is why some of the time, if we're playing online and you turn items on, I'll throw them off the edge instead of using them. Then it's a skill win.
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The Official SSBB Forum!
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thelazyone22
| | #16 posted April 18, 2008 at 2:51am (EDT) |
Scorch wrote:
> I always play no items when I can. Cause it just doesn't feel like
> a real win when I win using items. Which is why some of the time,
> if we're playing online and you turn items on, I'll throw them off
> the edge instead of using them. Then it's a skill win.
>
Items involve too much luck. What's to stop someone from just avoiding everything until a good item shows up or they get the Smash Ball or something?
I prefer to be beaten because you're better than me, not because you happened to get the Final Smash and I didn't or you got an assist trophy and I didn't.
I dunno, is that too purist? |
knighthawk
| | #17 posted April 18, 2008 at 7:36am (EDT) |
i just think you guys are taking the game too serious. you don't unlock items. they are built into the game. no items is cool when your doing a tournament or just trying to get better at fighting. but if you're going to bitch because you lose with items on then you aren't good at the game, you're good at your rule set of the game. do people get luck items (i.e. smash balls, hammers, etc.) sometimes? yes. what nintendo party game in the last decade hasn't involved luck to a degree...?
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Scorch
| | #18 posted April 18, 2008 at 2:56pm (EDT) |
thelazyone22 wrote:
> I prefer to be beaten because you're better than me, not because you
> happened to get the Final Smash and I didn't or you got an assist
> trophy and I didn't.
exactly. But yeah, I take the game (online) to seriously.
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The Official SSBB Forum!
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mentalpowers
| | #19 posted April 18, 2008 at 3:40pm (EDT) |
I assume you guys play Mario Kart without items too then?
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knighthawk
| | #20 posted April 18, 2008 at 3:49pm (EDT) |
mentalpowers wrote:
> I assume you guys play Mario Kart without items too then?
>
i was trying to think of an example, but you found the perfect one... 
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Scorch
| | #21 posted April 18, 2008 at 4:07pm (EDT) |
I play with items in Mario Kart, you can turn them off? I think items in Mario Kart make it a lot more fun than they do in SSB. cause in Mario Kart, all you can really do is drive, but in Smash Bros. you have a bunch of different moves you can do.
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The Official SSBB Forum!
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Godfather
| | #22 posted April 18, 2008 at 5:02pm (EDT) |
You can't turn them off, but you can choose not to use them. What's the matter? Don't you have mad kart skillz?
Don't you be dissing BookTZ, fool! -bill
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Scorch
| | #23 posted April 18, 2008 at 6:04pm (EDT) |
citizen_zane wrote:
> You can't turn them off, but you can choose not to use them. What's
> the matter? Don't you have mad kart skillz?
>
no, I really don't. I'm not bad, but I'm not great, either...
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The Official SSBB Forum!
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mentalpowers
| | #24 posted April 18, 2008 at 6:38pm (EDT) |
I think you can turn them off in Double Dash, for multiplayer anyway. I know that at the very least you can reduce the number. You can also race better and more aggressively, even without items.
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Sartori
 BTRs
| | #25 posted April 20, 2008 at 6:12pm (EDT) |
Couldn't tell you. Ask the feverish Mario Kart players, not Smashers.. :) |
Guru
| | #26 posted April 20, 2008 at 8:36pm (EDT) |
Items are more balanced in Mario Kart games than Smash.... |
thelazyone22
| #27 posted April 20, 2008 at 9:47pm (EDT)
edited April 20, 2008 at 9:50pm (EDT) |
Guru wrote:
> Items are more balanced in Mario Kart games than Smash....
Exactly. We don't play Mario Kart, well my roommates play N64 Mario Kart religiously, but on the LCD, we play Smash almost exclusively.
In MK, if you're in first, you get less "useful" items, i.e. bananas and green shells. If you're in last, you get lightning and Bowser shells. In that sense, it's regulated to a degree how "good" an item you get is.
In Smash, there's no way to have even minor regulation like that. How do you keep a really good jumper like Kirby from having a slight advantage getting a Smash Ball than a crapty jumper like Ganondorf or Ike? Even worse, how do you prevent a pussy player from avoiding fighting and just going after the good items, especially in stock survival?
I don't mind playing with items, persay, it's just that it gets ultra-competitive when we play. In that sense, I want to get beaten because you genuinely know what the hell you're doing and how to most effectively utilize your character's strengths and mask his/her/it's weaknesses. Not because you avoided fighting me the whole match then picked up a Pokeball/Smash Ball/Assist Trophy/whatever and "won". I guess that means I do take the game too seriously, but hell, I don't like losing at ANYTHING. That being said, if I'm going to lose, I prefer to lose to someone who's better than me, not "luckier" than me. |
CyberControl
| | #28 posted April 20, 2008 at 10:18pm (EDT) |
I have to disagree with that...Ike is actually pretty good at getting smash balls. When he throws his sword up for aether is when he really shines. I can't tell you how many times that sword has cracked open the smash ball. :) |
Gooseberry
| | #29 posted April 20, 2008 at 11:35pm (EDT) |
CyberControl wrote:
> I have to disagree with that...Ike is actually pretty good at getting
> smash balls. When he throws his sword up for aether is when he really
> shines. I can't tell you how many times that sword has cracked open
> the smash ball. :)
I think you missed the point. |
CyberControl
| #30 posted April 20, 2008 at 11:49pm (EDT)
edited April 20, 2008 at 11:50pm (EDT) |
I know, I was just trying to have a little fun with the subject. |
thelazyone22
| #31 posted April 21, 2008 at 12:29am (EDT)
edited April 21, 2008 at 12:29am (EDT) |
CyberControl wrote:
> I have to disagree with that...Ike is actually pretty good at getting
> smash balls. When he throws his sword up for aether is when he really
> shines. I can't tell you how many times that sword has cracked open
> the smash ball. :)
I figured someone would say that and yeah, Ike's Up-B is pretty sick. But it doesn't excuse the inherent fact that he's slow and his Aether has limited range vs. Kirby being able to puff and kick in the air all over the place.
But yeah, the point is, the Smash Ball tends to skew things far too much instead of evening the game like all of Brawl is made out to be. Hell, the few days we kept Smash Balls on, I would literally get every single Smash Ball by waiting and then timing up Pikachu's Down B as everyone fought to get it. It wasn't that hard and even tho I kept getting it, even I agreed it got old pretty fast.
I don't argue that the Final Smash is hella sick, animation-wise and what-it-does-wise. But the implementation is just poor, in my opinion, or perhaps a better word is lazy? My implementation of the Smash Ball would be reward-based, not luck-based; say if you die three times in a row without a kill or on the other side, if you get three kills without taking more than 100% damage. In the former case, if you suck or are just not playing well, a FS would perhaps even things up a bit; while in the latter case, if you're absolutely tearing it up anyway, might as well be rewarded. That would be more similar to MK:DD than what the FS is now. |
Sartori
BTRs
| | #32 posted April 21, 2008 at 4:17am (EDT) |
Brawl is designed with random luck in mind. Tough. :( |
mentalpowers
| | #33 posted April 21, 2008 at 9:11am (EDT) |
thelazyone22 wrote:
> In MK, if you're in first, you get less "useful" items, i.e. bananas
> and green shells. If you're in last, you get lightning and Bowser
> shells. In that sense, it's regulated to a degree how "good" an item
> you get is.
This seems to be the exact problem you have with smash bros. In Mario Kart, it allows less skilled players to win. In Smash Bros, it gives equal opportunity to every player.
I can certainly understand wanting to turn off smash balls, pokeballs, and assist trophies as they are mostly pretty cheap, and require little skill. The good thing about Smash Bros. is that you can turn off individual items. Hell, if I could do that Mario Kart and turned off blue shells and lightning, I'd win 95% of the time against my friends. The "cheap" items in that game have a far larger impact on who wins in MK than in SSB.
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knighthawk
| | #34 posted April 21, 2008 at 9:19am (EDT) |
i just dont understand why you would want to win 95% of the time. who the hell would want to play with you?
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Sartori
BTRs
| | #35 posted April 21, 2008 at 10:37am (EDT) |
knighthawk wrote:
> i just dont understand why you would want to win 95% of the time.
> who the hell would want to play with you?
>
People who actually want to get better.
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knighthawk
| #36 posted April 21, 2008 at 11:29am (EDT)
edited April 21, 2008 at 11:29am (EDT) |
your talking about a perfect world and a small percentage of people. on average people come over to play a game to have fun. not learn the ins and outs. fun=winning sometimes. being the best at a game and always winning equals not having anyone to play with except losers online.
i'm not a sore winner or a sore loser nor are my friends. we do play with items off sometimes, but thats only when its the more advanced people playing. to get everyone in on the fun we turn on the items. more chaos and a chance to beat someone who plays all the time equals more fun. i dont need to win every time...
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mentalpowers
| | #37 posted April 21, 2008 at 12:19pm (EDT) |
I don't win MK that much because of items. I don't get pissed, though. It's part of the game, just like items are in Smash Bros. If I wanted to play seriously without the help/hindrance of items, I wouldn't play those games.
I don't play with my friends to win. I play for the competition and to enjoy the hectic nature of the games.
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thelazyone22
| #38 posted April 21, 2008 at 1:15pm (EDT)
edited April 21, 2008 at 1:16pm (EDT) |
Don't feel like quoting, but I'll address some of the points above. All in the fun of debate, so if I come across wrong, I apologize in advance.
To be honest, I DO win 95% of the time and I would have to say I am the best Smash-er in our dorm. This is not to brag or anything; I just think I'm better at utilizing characters correctly versus some of my roommates who don't even roll-dodge -> more wins. Anyway, I dunno, isn't it the point of the game to win? If I'm clearly better than my roommates, I just don't understand why I have to "play down" to their level in order to "have fun"; the way I figure it, it's analogous to what they were saying last season about the Pats running up the score; if you don't like it (someone winning a lot, the Pats running up the score), hell, DO something about it, don't whine about it. Again, I don't see why I, or the Pats to continue the analogy, have to "accommodate" a lesser opponent, just "because".
Also, it's a fairly select bunch, probably 6-7 of the same guys that come over and Smash it up, so I guess it's also an environment sort of thing. We all get pretty into the game, so I guess it's just that we're all competitive and all halfway decent, so it's tough to not try to play your very best. If it was at home and some casual friends came over, I would see where being "nice" would come into play, but I would probably just decline to play rather than painfully try to "go easy".
In terms of MK, I don't think Bowser Shells or Lightning are AS cheap as the Final Smash/Poke Ball/Assist Trophy trio in Smash. They're designed to help you recover the distance you've lost, but they're regulated so that only the losing players get them. This is less the case in Smash, where the guy who hasn't lost a life yet has an equal chance to get a FS/PB/AT as the guy who's on his last life.
Lol, I dunno, despite my bickering and how much I don't "like" Brawl for everything that it could be, we still play at least an hour or two every day, so it's still a great game. Just less impressive than it potentially could have been. |
ChosenWarrior
| | #39 posted April 21, 2008 at 1:46pm (EDT) |
Just one point to make...FUDGE DA PATS!
That is fudgein all |
knighthawk
| | #40 posted April 21, 2008 at 2:54pm (EDT) |
who said anything about playing down? leaving items on (the way the game was created) makes you go easy? if anything don't you have to be more skilled when there are items on to not die by them...?
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