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Yaverot
  
| | #1 posted June 11, 2008 at 8:44pm (EDT) |
I'm aiming for a human ranger (two-blade) for my first character.
Considering how important crunch is to me, I'm surprised to find that my problem is 4th ed is that there is (practically) no fluff. But it is good for allowing a class to be flavored in such a way that I don't need to do my normal 3.5 multiclass dance to grab & explain my worthwhile abilities.
I keep reading things and seeing a pencil & paper based MMO for the mechanics, but I've never really played an MMO.
A lack of fluff brings it back to its wargame roots.
The new magic item balancing look interesting.
There is obviously a flaw with the ranger multiclass feat, as you can't go into ranger paragons with it.
I think someone on the wizards gleemax boards got it right, the biggest problem with 4th ed multiclassing is the fact they called it multiclassing. Using a different term now and if they figure out how latter on, then introducing multiclassing.
I haven't found the 4th ed SRD, despite that it was supposed to be online on release day.
The phrasing in the core books using phrasing that pushes DDI too strongly. It doesn't come across as something cheap that will enhance your game, it comes across as something you will find necessary and will be a monthly fee. $10/yr is more than enough for anything they don't think is worth the effort of printing.
I expect the flaws as I currently see them to mostly disappear. Nothing will likely 'fix' DDI, but gameplay issues will likely be fixed by some experience actually playing the game, so I don't think of things in 3x terms. Errata & the SRD will show up on wizards.com. New books will come out adding missing options, like Dragonborn tails, Sorcerers, ranger paragons that don't require combat style, each of the warlock pacts getting an equal amount of choice (skimming looks like infernal gets options, while the others look more pigeonholed), and feats that are more interesting.
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Standing on the shoulders of dwarves in quicksand. | Yaverot
| | #2 posted July 18, 2008 at 1:08am (EDT) |
So I've had a month now to look at the game, and play some in it.
Due to our GM's mad dice rolling ability, 4th ed is completely unfair. All of his rolls are in the open, and whenever he rolls for the monsters he doesn't roll under 15. He does a Nat 20 crit once a round with the number of opponents he controls for a "fair" fight. As players we roll disproportionally below 12. As someone pointed out in the comments somewhere on Shamus Young's "DM of the Rings", when you're just rolling dice - it is science and statistics, and the norms can generally be expected; when it is a randomization for my character, each die roll is a quantum event.
Obviously I was told the wrong things before 4th Ed came out. Yes, the mechanics do appear to be more streamlined. Yes, the rules won't be getting in the way of "roleplaying" once we've internalized them. No the combats aren't any shorter, they might be in a couple years when somebody stumbles across the correct format for a 4th ed character sheet and everyone copies it. I never had much experience with AD&D sheets but they looked like they put the right information right in front of you. The PHB sheets for 3.x were quite useable, although I use Emma's when I print them, and have a spreadsheet on my laptop that doubles for character design. 4th sheet's are too much "here's how to calculate this number you use maybe once a session" and not enough "here, right here, is the number you add to your die roll." Making everyone as complex as a 3rd level wizard (in 1st-3.x) doesn't help that most of our players played straight fighter or rogue types to avoid the complexities of a 1st level wizard. Seams I've tangented from what I was told wrong...
5' step, take 20 search (repeat) is boring, so in 4th ed we'll just compare them to a fair passive search perception check. Sounds good. First trap we run across is DC 20 vs our best perception of 17 (which is really good for a 1st level character), "you fall in a hidden pit". Falling for a trap occasionally is fine, but how it was done, especially with the new 4th ed expectations; was clearly wrong. Welcome back hours of tideum for 5' take20....
Also "standing next to your opponent and whacking him is boring. 4th is about maneuverability." Sure, so obviously the 1st dungeon of the new edition has plenty of space for maneuverability, and isn't filled with 5' wide hallways, perfectly square corners & pillars that constantly block the new "diagonally move is still just a square" rule, Right? Not the way we saw the first room, but the monsters are already attacking so we'll just back up 6 squares to the entrance where we have room to maneuver & possibly pick them off 1 at a time if they don't come flooding together. Nope, enemies won't follow us outside, we have to fight them in this cramped room. As I saw pointed out on some blog, 4th is only slightly more mobile, in 3.x people didn't move to avoid AoOs, in 4th they don't move unless they have a power that allows them to avoid OAs, some big difference there.
H1 "Keep on the Shadowfell" should be labeled "for expert players of the 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons ruleset, with additional Gygaxian training, controlling a party of 5-6 1st level characters" as opposed to the assumption that the 1st adventure of the new ruleset will be easy to average difficulty and be played by players & GMs not yet familiar with the new rules.
The 4th Ed SRD is now up. If you're expecting it to be anything like the 3rd or 3.5 SRD, don't bother downloading it. It is a list of terms, and a template for character powers. The GSL which replaces the OGL, basically says you may use the terms in the SRD but those terms must mean exactly as they do in the core rulebooks (PHBx, DMGx, & MMx), you may not define or redefine any of these terms, and you still can't point out page numbers for quick reference. Remember that each year a new triple of new core books comes out, which adds more terms you'll be able to use (in Wizard's way) or not use (like you had previously done).
The first errata for 4th is also now up. It doesn't yet cover the obvious shortcomings pointed out at their official forums on release day, but are a good step in the right direction. I'm being generous and assuming the points not yet covered as so they don't issue a ruling then flop-flop a few times until they get it right (if they ever do, 3.x polymorph is still a headache).
We haven't run across many magic items yet, but they feel so bland. Of course, I might feel differently if I was getting them. There are obviously elements of 4th ed play style we haven't picked up yet.
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No, Mr. Bond I expect you to die. | rayzor6
  
| | #3 posted July 18, 2008 at 1:07pm (EDT) |
sounds like you might need to rotate DM's....
I always hated rules lawyers. The rules are there for guidence, but the DM needs to be flexible with them and aware honest creativity. So if you are 1st level and you run and attack a dragon...you deserve to get slaughtered. But if you find a creative way to take them on....a plan needs to be devised and percentages generated on the fly. It might be slim chances that they could work...but still.
A DM that constantly tries to screw their players over are just annoying and no one has any fun.
Magic items SHOULD be rare and not in the hands of 1st level characters. Another shortcoming of DM's is to let 1-3 level characters have intelligent weapons or artifact like magic items. These items are powerful enough to make kingdoms fight over them, yet some 1st level guy has it in his backpack ready to use?
Now that I think...that would be a pretty awesome campaign: almost like a LOTR kind of thing were everyone is trying to get it and certain NPC's befriend you to help you keep it. Most people would be bored in a couple of weeks probably.
Anyway...sorry your experience has been negative (this is coming from a former 1st and 2nd edition player)
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