Jason Carlisle, KameAddress:
783 Sonja Circle, Davenport, FL 33897Reporter: ENIX
I specifically wanted to trade for a near mint, unopened / new / sealed original release Dragon Quest 8 w/ the outer cardboard sleeve (also sealed) for the PS2. The value of the game is about $30-$35. I happened to have a very good condition Ikaruga (GameCube) that was complete and is valued around the same price...and he was my first GTZ trade (for DW4, actually) and I thought it would be a neat thing to trade for another DW item with my first trader rather than just selling Ikaruga and spending the money on a new copy from Amazon (which would have come with a guarantee)... so, I made the offer to trade as long as the game wasn't damaged and was actually sealed. We exchanged information about our games, and he sent some blurry cell phone pictures that looked decent enough in the pictures and he said it only had light shelf wear, so we made the trade.
He was to send first, but I figured he was a gold star who had been on GTZ for 14 years, and so was I, and thought that would be sufficient enough to trust it would be okay to send before I got his copy. BIG MISTAKE!!
His game came and it was sent in a loose padded envelope. I couldn't believe someone would send a sealed collector's item that had a soft/damageable cardboard outer sleeve in a padded envelope...but then I opened it and the game's outer box was all smashed up, and the corners were all tore up...and on closer inspection it looks like the front part was chewed on or something; it looks like teeth marks indented on the front. So, I sent him a message about it...and as I was typing up the message I actually noticed the bottom round sticker seal had been slit open. It was hard to see at first, and something that could be disguised as unopened if you took [blurry] pictures at the right angle. I didn't immediately accuse him of sending it opened, but I did mention the severe damages, and he proceeded to blame ME for the damage sustained by his poor shipping decisions!!
This went on for a couple of days of bickering, highlighted below, and ultimately he threatened to stop communications with me, and never once offered to fix the issue - it was clearly all my fault:on 14-May-2013 at 11:58pm Zecon That's strange, when I sent the package the box was completely sealed, the pictures especially picture #4 should be enough to prove that, not to mention I have absolutely no reason to open it. I do apologize about the envelope however, I just used whatever I had around the house, but to be fair you also the game by envelope.
on 15-May-2013 at 3:15pm Zecon I'm sorry, but if you were worried about the conditions of the packaging, you should have made that clear before the trade not after, what's been done cannot be undone at this point.
on 16-May-2013 at 1:54am Zecon Oh and I forgot to add, you may not be responsible for my actions but you are responsible for your own actions, by telling me your conditions before the trade and avoiding this whole mess.
on 16-May-2013 at 1:38am Zecon This will most likely be my last response since continuing this wont solve anything and will most likely get out of hand.
I proceeded to tell him how wrong he was and it was his responsibility to ship properly, and even quoted the Oath which clearly states this (as if you needed an oath to tell you common sense):on 16-May-2013 at 3:41am ENIX A little light reading for you since you don't seem to get it:
Shipping goods to other people is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. You can make a great deal with someone, only to see it go bad because you failed to pack what you sent properly.
Pack your items well to ensure against damage in transit.
Use tracking services like Delivery Confirmation and insurance when appropriate.
When shipping outside your country, be aware of customs rules.
Communicate with the other trader about how you will ship.
Pack your shipments properly.
He responded to this with the following comment, threatening to retaliate against a BTR:on 16-May-2013 at 4:29am Zecon As far as I'm concerned I followed the conditions set for the trade just fine, it was your job to set the conditions you wanted, so blame yourself for not specifying your needs. Again your actions could have avoided all this, If you want to be a dick by writing me a BTR, I'll return the favor. I was going to let bygones be bygones, but that depends on your actions.
on 16-May-2013 at 5:12am Zecon Bottom line: It's not my responsibility once the item is shipped. The item was protected by bubble wrap envelope, it was secured and was sent in exactly the condition described. If you wanted the item insured you should have paid extra for the option. I followed the rules by the book.
I finally offered him two fair options, to which I never received a reply:Return my game, and I will return yours. That or you can send me $15 (half the cost to replace your busted game with a new copy from Amazon/ebay), and I will donate your smashed partially opened game to the Goodwill.
Look at this piece of crap's response to the BTR. It's still my fault he shipped like crap. Be warned that if you don't hold this 14-year vet's hands through the entire trading process then apparently he will choose to act like retarded noobie and blame you for it.
That, and you'll suddenly be conspiring to send a game in great condition to him, with the big master plan of getting a crapty fudgeed up gnarly game in return. Also, I spent $3 on shipping, he spent roughly the same.... A Flat Rate Priority box would have cost him $5, not $20.
So, Zecon, fudge you. You are a HUGE piece of crap, and I hope you never get another trade again. You've gone from asset to cancer.
By the way, just a tip for anyone trading here on whatever: If someone sends you blurry cell pics in this day and age; they are hiding something. 99% of cell phones in 2013 have at least a 1mp camera capable of taking decent pictures.
On that note, here are my pictures I sent him, versus what he sent me, and also followed by pictures of the opened bottom seal both at his disguised angle and what it really looks like.on 7-May-2013 at 3:28pm Zecon Hello again, It's always a pleasure trading with someone I've done so in the past, and I see you done quite well for yourself! Makes me proud that I was your first lol. Anyway to answer your questions, yes DW8 is brand new original in the box, black labeled and sealed. The seal hasn't been broken or opened, however there is some minor shelf wear on the edges of the box, but to be honest it was that way when I purchased it, which makes me believe it's that way with every box. I have some questions of my own, does Ikaruga have the manual and the box? and what condition is everything in? Looking forward to your response! :) on 7-May-2013 at 7:07pm ENIX Ikaruga is in excellent condition to me. If I'm being super picky, I would say very good...but maybe somewhere in between vg and excellent at worst. Light outer box shelf wear. Very light disc scratching (the kind you have to look for in the light). Pics can tell the rest of the story...
on 8-May-2013 at 2:01am Zecon Very nice, that's good enough condition for me! Thank you for the pics. See if you like what you see, I apologize the quality of my photos aren't as great as yours, but all I have is an ipod touch... But if it passes your inspection, I'm ready to get this trade rolling :)
And here's what I got:
Comparison using his same angle:
Response from Accused "Bad Trader":
Sigh... Enix is great at pointing fingers and blaming others for his own mistakes, which he even admitted to! I don't really feel like defending myself since I didn't do anything wrong, this is more like my final response to Enix, then if I must keep my BTR so be it, that's fine by me. First Enix proposed the trade, he showed me the pictures of his game and then I showed him pictures of my game. Even though my pictures were a little blurry (I don't have a high tech camera, nor should I be required to) you can still see all the details, his comments about "disguised as unopened if you took [blurry] pictures at the right angle"
is an excuse
to make his case, I didn't disguised
anything, the angle was so that you could clearly see it was unopened, I sent multiple pictures and his comment was: on 8-May-2013 at 11:54am ENIX lol, why do those bottom corners look so gnarly in that 2nd pic but fine in all the others? I'll take it...that 2nd pic looks scary though.
I told him prior the reason why the bottom corners looked gnarly: on 7-May-2013 at 6:28pm Zecon The seal hasn't been broken or opened, however there is some minor shelf wear on the edges of the box, but to be honest it was that way when I purchased it, which makes me believe it's that way with every box.
He still accepted the trade, at this time he had at least a day or so to make any special requests, he didn't
(mistake #1), so I secured the item in a padded envelope, as far as the rules and regulations go the item was protected. I even ensure there was some extra tape around the envelope so the game wasn't loose, I met every prerequisites and requirements provided both by Gametz Oath and Enix
, and I was confident enough to send FIRST
in the event damage did occur during transaction Enix would not have been affected
having both games in his possession (mistake #2), that should speak volumes in itself and clear me from any suspicion. These were the conditions set by Enix for the trade, 1. That I send first and 2. The item was unopened, both of these conditions were TRUE, I sent first
and the item was unopened
, there were no other special requests for the packaging, it was Enix responsibility to specify any other stipulations for the trade, especially since it was he that proposed the trade in the first place! After he received the game his first remark was:on 14-May-2013 at 8:23pm ENIX Seriously dude, you sent a sealed cardboard boxed game in an envelope? It's all smashed and gashed up.
Spoken like a true hypocrite, since he also sent my game by envelope!
I should be making a case against him, but I wont stoop to his level of whining. Being the bigger man I apologized but I was not going to take the blame for his mistakes:on 15-May-2013 at 6:15pm Zecon I'm sorry, but if you were worried about the conditions of the packaging, you should have made that clear before the trade not after, what's been done cannot be undone at this point.on 15-May-2013 at 9:59pm ENIX Wow, what a crapty response. I sent a hard case game in an envelope and if it had gotten jacked up, I would have had no issue returning your game. The fact that you're so casual and nonchalant about the fact that you sent a collectible sealed cardboard boxed game in a padded envelope and claim no responsibility shows your character...but the fact that you would pass blame off on me is a real dick move.
It's clear at this point Enix did not want to take responsibility for his lack of communication and his responsibility for not specifying in detail the packaging he required before the trade. At this point I knew there was no reasoning with him so I responded:on 16-May-2013 at 4:38am Zecon This will most likely be my last response since continuing this wont solve anything and will most likely get out of hand. You said it yourself "Bottom line: I should have to tell you to send a sealed cardboard collector's item in a BOX.", not only should you have told me that, but you should've also had the item insured. I'm not blaming you for your mistakes, but the dick move is by your part, expecting me to spend $10-20 to ship your item, while hoping to get away with a mere $2.58 to ship yours... right. Who told you I wanted my item shipped in an envelope? If you wanted me to ship in a box, it's only fair you should ship mine in a box too. If you want your item insured, then my item should be insured as well. Bottom line all these special conditions need to be set before the shipment not after, so it's not going to do you any good whining about it now. Also I'm not running a business here, there's no returns or refunds, and there's no warranty either. If you told me to ship in a box and I sent by envelope, then maybe you would have been entitled of a return.on 16-May-2013 at 6:38am ENIX You're really making yourself out to be some kind of hero/victim here and you're the only one who received their half in the condition promised. The fact that I just fudging told you that should my shipping protection not have been sufficient, I would have gracefully returned your game. That's how this works, man. Not just "I sent the game out with postage right on the box; you should have told me not to do that." and shun all responsibility.
I can say same for you buddy, shunning away from all your responsibility, making yourself some kind of victim, all your doing is pointing fingers over and over again. You keep neglecting the Oath you
should have followed:Communicate with the other trader about how you will ship.
You know the YOU
with the OTHER TRADER
on how to ship which you
neglected to do. It does
matter because ultimately you
are responsible for how you
set the conditions of the trade that you
proposed and you
are responsible for the results of how you
chose the game to arrive. Not me. YOU
. Sounds familiar? It should be, I can do that too you know.
My educated guess is that Enix planned this whole conspiracy from the beginning. Enix deliberately avoided the extra expenses for the packaging which apparently laid heavily on my shoulders only in his eyes. By not communicating not only does he avoid the expenses but also shun responsibility if the package was less than desirable. After receiving the game and seeing up close the minor self wear I warned him about, the game most likely didn't match his high expectations which was clear from the beginning of his statements, so the most likely scenario is he caused the damage to game himself to make himself seem like the victim here. Now he's leaving me two unfair choices, that would only affect me of course. So he leaves me no choice but to pick option #3, None of the above! I told you I would return the favor and here it is: You'll never see your game again, and you'll never receive a cent from me either.
So I'm going to give you two choices now, either enjoy the game you received and smashed up yourself... or don't, the choice is yours, I don't really care!