Politics

Topic   Apparent terror attack in Manhattan

theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 31-Oct(#1)
A truck was driven 20 blocks along a cycle lane killing several and injuring many more. It's being labeled terror attack by the media.

Discuss. I may, may not. Just posting this topic here and now before someone tries to make some point in the General forums.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 31-Oct(#2)
Man. Terrorism never stops. So he drive a truck into people.

Reportedly an Islamic extremist. Looks like the suspect is expected to survive.
Porksta
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Secret Santa
31-Oct(#3)
Religion of peace strikes again.

Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
31-Oct(#4)
Will this finally cause folks to have a serious conversation about immigration control?
theJaw
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Secret Santa
* 31-Oct(#5)
That conversation has been happening. The sarcastic "control" joke isn't lost, but far less mass killings happen via truck than via gun in the US. By lots. And most of those are pulled off by legal US citizens. Some with gun licenses.

Islam is a religion of peace, ISIS does not follow the religion the way the majority do. They literally exist because the majority of Muslims aren't following their cherry picked belief system. Simply wrong to suggest the entire religion has a uniformly violent thought process, there's no other way to put it. You're choosing not to accept reality by acting like all of Islam is some evil violent theeat given how folks practice it in civilized countries, peacefully. ISIS though, as Scots said, are extremist. Whatever right wing website with Quran passages taken out of context or intentionally misconstrued that you drudge up isn't going to change the reality.

Getting old pointing out these basic facts every time something like this happens. By ignoring them you're simply pushing an agenda. Another fact that's not surprising is how suddenly no one here is jumping to "rememebr the victims" and are instead immediately honing in on the killer and his radical views. You know, which are totally NOT brought on by mental illness this time - definitely just an innate quality shared by every single person who practices Islam, even the ones who practice peacefully and vehemently condemn the violent acts (of which they are the ones most affected on a daily basis).

That's all I got. You guys can take it away.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
31-Oct(#6)
Religion and peace don't belong in the same sentence.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
31-Oct(#7)
Scots wrote:
> Will this finally cause folks to have a serious conversation about immigration control?

I think the line is "Now is not the time to politicize this tragic situation. Thoughts and prayers."


Finn
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
1-Nov(#8)
theJaw wrote:
> That conversation has been happening. The sarcastic "control" joke isn't lost, but
> far less mass killings happen via truck than via gun in the US. By lots. And most
> of those are pulled off by legal US citizens. Some with gun licenses.
>
> Islam is a religion of peace, ISIS does not follow the religion the way the majority
> do. They literally exist because the majority of Muslims aren't following their cherry
> picked belief system. Simply wrong to suggest the entire religion has a uniformly
> violent thought process, there's no other way to put it. You're choosing not to accept
> reality by acting like all of Islam is some evil violent theeat given how folks practice
> it in civilized countries, peacefully. ISIS though, as Scots said, are extremist.
> Whatever right wing website with Quran passages taken out of context or intentionally
> misconstrued that you drudge up isn't going to change the reality.
>
> Getting old pointing out these basic facts every time something like this happens.
> By ignoring them you're simply pushing an agenda. Another fact that's not surprising
> is how suddenly no one here is jumping to "rememebr the victims" and are instead
> immediately honing in on the killer and his radical views. You know, which are totally
> NOT brought on by mental illness this time - definitely just an innate quality shared
> by every single person who practices Islam, even the ones who practice peacefully
> and vehemently condemn the violent acts (of which they are the ones most affected
> on a daily basis).
>
> That's all I got. You guys can take it away.


Well said, but I don't think it will do much as all the half wits are not able to differentiate between the two.





Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 1-Nov(#9)
The monster:

image
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
1-Nov(#10)
It'll be interesting, since usually the Islamists don't live when they do this.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#11)
If he wanted to be a martyr so bad, he should have just sold some loosies on the street.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#12)
One way to take these "Islamic" attacks into perspective is imagine there was a "Christian State in Syria" or whatever you'd like to call it committing atrocities.

How would Christians like this?
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
1-Nov(#13)
Imagining that something that's not happening is happening is not typically the best way to put something into perspective.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
* 1-Nov(#14)
It's absolutely appropriate and it's the exact same thing.

Maybe if we use an example of Christian terror that does exist- say the KKK. Do you think most Christians acknowledge the KKK as a group in accordance with their views?

In a "religious" discussion, hypothetical ideas are null. That's funny.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
* 1-Nov(#15)
What if it were a Buddhist state in Syria that was repeatedly terrorizing the United States? Or a Christian state in Syria? Or a Hindu state? In all of these hypothetical scenarios, my perspective would be that that would be bad. Really bad.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#16)
I agree it would be bad. Nonetheless the entirety of those religions would not accept that these things are carried out in the name of their faith.

As a person who feels that all religion is a stain it's still rather easy for me to understand why the sentiments we are discussing exist. I know Muslims and I think they're delusional as hell but they don't represent what these deviants are doing.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
1-Nov(#17)
I fully agree that peaceful Muslims don't represent what the extremists are doing.
Noid
Gold Good Trader
* 1-Nov(#18)
Feeb wrote:
> Maybe if we use an example of Christian terror that does exist- say the KKK. Do you think most Christians acknowledge the KKK as a group in accordance with their views?
>
>

I'll definitely agree that, for the most part, the the KKK claims to be a Christian organization. I'll also definitely agree that, for the most part, other Christian organizations do not believe in or adhere to the racist ideas of the KKK. However, these other Christian organizations go so far as to publically denounce -- individually and as a whole, time and time again -- the racist ideas of the KKK. yes

Unfortunately, this seems to be where the similarities between "Christianity Versus The KKK" and "Islam Versus Radical Islam" end. Maybe it's me (and, for the record, it very well could); but, I don't see a whole lot of Islamic organizations publicly telling people, be they outsiders or insiders, that radical Islam is, for lack of better terminology, complete and utter bullcrap. I know a lot of Christian organizations that do this with the KKK's bullcrap. But, I'm just not seeing it on the other side with Islamic organizations. That's where I believe your comparison falls apart, Feeb. no

Also, for what it's worth, that comment of yours that "all religion is a stain" is pretty offensive. Now, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it or anything. But, for someone who subscribes to acceptance and tolerance, that's a pretty damn unacceptable and intolerant statement. smiley:::frown
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (43 seconds ago)
* 1-Nov(#19)
While I agree with Scots I do believe many peaceful Muslims are complicit ir don't go far enough to condemn radicalization. This would lose me friends in my circles but that is my opinion.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#20)
Noid wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>> Maybe if we use an example of Christian terror that does exist- say the KKK. Do
> you think most Christians acknowledge the KKK as a group in accordance with their
> views?
>>
>>
>
> I'll definitely agree that, for the most part, the the KKK claims to be a Christian
> organization. I'll also definitely agree that, for the most part, other Christian
> organizations do not believe in or adhere to the racist ideas of the KKK. However,
> these other Christian organizations go so far as to publically denounce -- individually
> and as a whole, time and time again -- the racist ideas of the KKK. yes
>
> Unfortunately, this seems to be where the similarities between "Christianity Versus
> The KKK" and "Islam Versus Radical Islam" end. Maybe it's me (and, for the record,
> it very well could); but, I don't see a whole lot of Islamic organizations publicly
> telling people, be they outsiders or insiders, that radical Islam is, for lack of
> better terminology, complete and utter bullcrap. I know a lot of Christian organizations
> that do this with the KKK's bullcrap. But, I'm just not seeing it on the other side
> with Islamic organizations. That's where I believe your comparison falls apart, Feeb.
> no
>
> Also, for what it's worth, that comment of yours that "all religion is a stain" is
> pretty offensive. Now, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it or anything. But, for someone
> who subscribes to acceptance and tolerance, that's a pretty damn unacceptable and
> intolerant statement. smiley:::frown

The fact that a statement hurts someone else's feelings does nothing to discredit it.

I'm sorry that you're offended but I don't feel threatened by any "fact" to backtrack on what I've said.

I challenge you to do this:

Google:

Christian denounce kkk

Then google:

Muslim denounce ISIS.

Your feelings are important so far as facts support them.

Noid
Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#21)
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#22)
Interesting search wasn't it?
Noid
Gold Good Trader
* 1-Nov(#23)
Also, I never mentioned your comment offended me. I simply wrote that your comment is offensive. Get your facts straight, Columbo. smiley:::wink

image
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#24)
Ok. Then we can let others speak for themselves.
Noid
Gold Good Trader
* 1-Nov(#25)
Feeb wrote:
> Ok. Then we can let others speak for themselves.
>
>

That's a great idea! In fact, I liked it so much, I decided to do just that. The link's here. Now, who's ready for some good, ol' fashioned fun?! smiley:::wink

image
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
* 1-Nov(#26)
Again-

The fact that a statement hurts someone else's feelings does nothing to discredit it.

I'm sorry that you're offended but I don't feel threatened by any "fact" to backtrack on what I've said.

But you weren't offended-
Noid
Gold Good Trader
* 1-Nov(#27)
Once again, I never mentioned your comment offended me. I simply wrote that your comment is offensive: is of·fen·sive. Are you having trouble distinguishing something that's personal from something that's not? smiley:::frown
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
* 1-Nov(#28)
see my vote in your poll. Great experiment.

Can't keep up with your edits. Sorry.
Noid
Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#29)
Hey! I think I finally get it now, Feeb! So, let me know if I'm on the right track.

You're an butt-hole, right? I mean, like, you're a complete and utter butt-hole. Now, stating that would be both factual and offensive, right?! So, there you go! That must be it, right?!

But, wait! It gets better! While I may state, as a matter of absolute fact, that you're an incapable, incompetent butt-hole, you would more than likely disagree with those so-called "facts." You may state, as a matter of absolute fact, that you're not an butt-hole. Now, if that's the case, the real problem suddenly becomes completely and totally apparent: when are facts actually facts and not just inflated opinions?

I'll leave that question for another time. smiley:::wink
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
1-Nov(#30)
In the politics form, all opinions are facts. Come on man!
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#31)
Lol. Triggered.

All true.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#32)
Spot the fact:

1) God is great

Or

2) The intentional mass murder of individuals on the basis of ethnicity, religion, or race, or death caused by the forced eviction of individuals on the basis of race, religion or ethnicity is greater than 13,000,000 lives.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
1-Nov(#33)
1
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#34)
it's almost like one can't be true if the other is...
Noid
Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#35)
I'm concerned for you, Feeb. The kind of thinking that openly and unabashedly leads to the comment, "all religion is a stain" is dangerously too close to the same kind of thinking that openly and unabashedly leads to the comments, "all Christians are a stain," "all Jews are a stain," and "all Muslims are a stain." That's a pretty slippery slope there, buddy, and I just hate seeing you tread down it. smiley:::frown
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#36)
Equating an idea with a living person is something you took on your self. Being obvious that's a non sequitir... the circles thing makes it easy not to do that. It did become apparent that you're argument comes from the heart and not the mind, even so.

"The human stain is one or all of the idiosyncrasies otherwise classified as differences within the human race that continue to cause conflict."
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#37)
Back on topic.


I like this one:

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/teen-makes-spreads...

Teen vogue. Should be at our level. May need the assistance of a female to read it. Probably.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (43 seconds ago)
1-Nov(#38)
Ha, you two are at it today huh?
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#39)
I didn't offend him and he went off.
Noid
Gold Good Trader
* 1-Nov(#40)
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#41)
About 4 months ago, thousands of Muslims marched against ISIS and their beliefs. This took place in London and Holland Park on their Holy day of Ashura.

Almost 3 months ago, Neo-Nazis, The KKK, and other white supremacist marched, resulting in the death of one young woman. Many self-proclaimed Christians and Evangelicals supported President Trumps claim that there were good people on both sides. So far, I'm unaware of any march by Christians distancing themselves from them.

See, you can spin it the other way too.

I don't believe at all that a march or protest is necessary to disavow from a hate group. I believe, and have seen evidence of both Christians and Muslims distancing themselves from their respective radical sects. If you say otherwise, you're simply not looking.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (43 seconds ago)
1-Nov(#42)
Regardless of how its spun there is no way the US can ban an entire religion if people entering the country. Even this extreme vetting process can't keep folks from getting a truck and running down folks.
Noid
Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#43)
Karaiya wrote:
> Regardless of how its spun there is no way the US can ban an entire religion if people entering the country. Even this extreme vetting process can't keep folks from getting a truck and running down folks.
>
>

I completely and totally agree. On that same note, there's also no way the US government can or should ban the possession and use of firearms. Even something this extreme can't keep folks from getting a truck and running down folks. Wouldn't you also agree? smiley:::winking raspberry
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
* 1-Nov(#44)
Karaiya wrote:
> Regardless of how its spun there is no way the US can ban an entire religion if people
> entering the country. Even this extreme vetting process can't keep folks from getting
> a truck and running down folks.


It's very much akin to the gun debate. Except this time we are immediately allowed to discuss it. A man shoots 600 people and kills 50+, and we're told to shut up. A man runs over dozens and kills eight, suddenly I'm supposed to be on board with building a wall, diverting billions in tax dollars, banning religions, and turning our backs on people that may need help IMMEDIATELY! No questions asked.

I'm all for discussing and debating at any time. We shouldn't cherry pick situations and policies to discuss based on our narratives.

The anti-gun left doesn't want to discuss immigration now, but feels we should talk policy whenever there is a mass shooting.

The anti-immigrant right doesn't want to discuss mass shootings when they happen, but insists on immediate massive policy changes, with no debate, when one dipcrap religious fanatic goes murderous.

Perhaps somebody could explain why one murdering butt-hole killing and injuring 1/6 the amount of people takes precedent over the other?


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (43 seconds ago)
* 1-Nov(#45)
Right and these policies are not equivalent either. Guns violence kills more people than Muslims in America.

Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
1-Nov(#46)
We should ban all vehicles. Boom, problem solved.
thatonedude
Silver Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
(frozen)
* 1-Nov(#47)
Ban Islam. Boom, problem solved. smiley:::rolls eyes
thatonedude
Silver Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
(frozen)
1-Nov(#48)
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
1-Nov(#49)
Only good guys with medicine can stop the bad hombre germs.

Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (43 seconds ago)
1-Nov(#50)
The Spanish Influenza was Mexican
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
1-Nov(#51)
Breitbart: good guy with gun thwarts jihadist. Oh BTW, he was a cop.

What are they trying to say here? I agree!!!
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
1-Nov(#52)
Suspect was interviewed in 2015 after being listed as a point of contact for someone on the terror list.
dracula
Triple Gold Good Trader Has Written 7 Reviews
6-Nov(#53)
Feeb wrote:
> Noid wrote:
>> Feeb wrote:
> |>> Maybe if we use an example of Christian terror that does exist- say the KKK.
> Do
>> you think most Christians acknowledge the KKK as a group in accordance with their
>> views?
> |>>
> |>>
>>
>> I'll definitely agree that, for the most part, the the KKK claims to be a Christian
>> organization. I'll also definitely agree that, for the most part, other Christian
>> organizations do not believe in or adhere to the racist ideas of the KKK. However,
>> these other Christian organizations go so far as to publically denounce -- individually
>> and as a whole, time and time again -- the racist ideas of the KKK. yes
>>
>> Unfortunately, this seems to be where the similarities between "Christianity Versus
>> The KKK" and "Islam Versus Radical Islam" end. Maybe it's me (and, for the record,
>> it very well could); but, I don't see a whole lot of Islamic organizations publicly
>> telling people, be they outsiders or insiders, that radical Islam is, for lack
> of
>> better terminology, complete and utter bullcrap. I know a lot of Christian
> organizations
>> that do this with the KKK's bullcrap. But, I'm just not seeing it on the other
> side
>> with Islamic organizations. That's where I believe your comparison falls apart,
> Feeb.
>> no
>>
>> Also, for what it's worth, that comment of yours that "all religion is a stain"
> is
>> pretty offensive. Now, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it or anything. But, for
> someone
>> who subscribes to acceptance and tolerance, that's a pretty damn unacceptable
> and
>> intolerant statement. smiley:::frown
>
> The fact that a statement hurts someone else's feelings does nothing to discredit
> it.
>
> I'm sorry that you're offended but I don't feel threatened by any "fact" to backtrack
> on what I've said.
>
> I challenge you to do this:
>
> Google:
>
> Christian denounce kkk
>
> Then google:
>
> Muslim denounce ISIS.
>
> Your feelings are important so far as facts support them.


You are delusional and a muslim apologist. Muslims do not denounce isis. A muslim moderate will not try to chop your head off, but still gets really happy and starts passing out candy when he sees a muslim extremist chop your head off. See 9/11
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (43 seconds ago)
* 6-Nov(#54)
Similiarly, a white racist person may not be running around hanging black people in white sheets but will not denounce them publicly and call some of them "very fine people." They will also make policies that marginalize people of color. They will also not be silent about white men and their penchant for massive gun violence and home grown terrorism.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
6-Nov(#55)
dracula wrote:
> Feeb wrote:
>> Noid wrote:
> |>> Feeb wrote:
>> |>> Maybe if we use an example of Christian terror that does exist- say the KKK.
>> Do
> |>> you think most Christians acknowledge the KKK as a group in accordance with their
> |>> views?
>> |>>
>> |>>
> |>>
> |>> I'll definitely agree that, for the most part, the the KKK claims to be a Christian
> |>> organization. I'll also definitely agree that, for the most part, other Christian
> |>> organizations do not believe in or adhere to the racist ideas of the KKK. However,
> |>> these other Christian organizations go so far as to publically denounce -- individually
> |>> and as a whole, time and time again -- the racist ideas of the KKK. yes
> |>>
> |>> Unfortunately, this seems to be where the similarities between "Christianity
> Versus
> |>> The KKK" and "Islam Versus Radical Islam" end. Maybe it's me (and, for the record,
> |>> it very well could); but, I don't see a whole lot of Islamic organizations publicly
> |>> telling people, be they outsiders or insiders, that radical Islam is, for lack
>> of
> |>> better terminology, complete and utter bullcrap. I know a lot of Christian
>> organizations
> |>> that do this with the KKK's bullcrap. But, I'm just not seeing it on the other
>> side
> |>> with Islamic organizations. That's where I believe your comparison falls apart,
>> Feeb.
> |>> no
> |>>
> |>> Also, for what it's worth, that comment of yours that "all religion is a stain"
>> is
> |>> pretty offensive. Now, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it or anything. But, for
>> someone
> |>> who subscribes to acceptance and tolerance, that's a pretty damn unacceptable
>> and
> |>> intolerant statement. smiley:::frown
>>
>> The fact that a statement hurts someone else's feelings does nothing to discredit
>> it.
>>
>> I'm sorry that you're offended but I don't feel threatened by any "fact" to backtrack
>> on what I've said.
>>
>> I challenge you to do this:
>>
>> Google:
>>
>> Christian denounce kkk
>>
>> Then google:
>>
>> Muslim denounce ISIS.
>>
>> Your feelings are important so far as facts support them.
>
>
> You are delusional and a muslim apologist. Muslims do not denounce isis. A muslim
> moderate will not try to chop your head off, but still gets really happy and starts
> passing out candy when he sees a muslim extremist chop your head off. See 9/11

You're comprehensively challenged.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)
6-Nov(#56)
Karaiya wrote:

> They will also not be silent about white men and their penchant for massive gun violence and
> home grown terrorism.

Exactly. Or brown men and their penchant for terrorism. Or black men and their penchant for gang violence.
yankees7448
Bronze Good Trader
8-Nov(#57)
Religions don't kill people. People kill people.
thatonedude
Silver Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)
(frozen)
8-Nov(#58)
Sometimes bears kill people.

Topic   Apparent terror attack in Manhattan