Politics

Topic   Forum Decorum: Talking and Listening; Conversation

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 2-Nov(#1)
Heard an interesting radio snip over the weekend that I was thinking about, regarding this stalemate and divisiveness that seems to be gripping political and ideological discussion (that I will essentially lift directly from for a bit starting now, I would encourage you to take a few minutes to head here and start up Dialogue and Exchange and perhaps skip to minute 33 as that's where I'm about to rip from and the part that resonated so well with me)

about letting go of this idea that you're a part of a conversation to change someone's mind or to educate them, because that's always frustrating, and that's probably where all the anger comes from, because that's not going to happen. So let go of that intention, and instead enter into the conversation, saying "Okay, I'm gonna take something away from this conversation." THAT's something you have control over.

A few things you should do when listening to someone:

#1 - Don't multitask. And I don't mean just put down your cellphone or your tablet or your car keys or whatever's in your hand, BE PRESENT. Be in THAT moment.
#2 - Use open-ended questions. Take a cue from journalists and start out your questions with "Who, What, Where, When, Why" or "How".
#3 - Go with the flow. Thoughts will come into your mind, and you need to let them go out of your mind. We're sitting having a conversation with someone and then we remember that time when we met Hugh Jackman at a coffee shop and we stop listening. Ideas are going to come to you, you need to let them come and let them go.
#4 - Don't equate your experience with theirs. If they're talking about the trouble they're having at work, don't tell them about how much you hate your job. It's not the same. It is NEVER the same. All experiences are individual, and more importantly, it is not about you.
#5 - LISTEN. I cannot tell you how many important people have said that this is perhaps THE MOST, #1 MOST IMPORTANT SKILL YOU CAN DEVELOP. And look, I know it takes effort, and energy to actually pay attention to someone, but if you can't do that, you're not in a conversation, you're just two people shouting out barely-related sentences in the same place.

One of the bits after that was about talking with someone who's so ideologically opposed to you that everything they say and believe just offends you to your core, and how when starting a conversation where they're like "Well I'm not even going to talk to you about this, I already know where you stand" can be an entrypoint to listening, since you can respond "Well, that's a load off, I don't have to get into that. So how do you feel about "X"?


And not necessarily NOT responding with your feelings and views and just listening, but by opening the dialogue and hearing how they feel, by paying that respect, you may end up talking with someone who likes you and respects you enough to perhaps give you an opening to share how YOU feel about something, instead of being locked down and shut out, or retreating yourself and becoming defensive. What I see, what I am guilty of to an alarming rate I hadn't really taken seriously before now is the way I've been "talking" in these forums.

1. I say something
2. Someone says something I don't agree with
3. I counter with what I believe to be obvious and firmly correct
4. Someone else says something they believe to be obvious and firmly correct
5. I call someone else an idiot because it's clear as day to anyone reading what they're saying

Aaaand I think we know (or honestly really DON'T know) what happens there. Whoever gets the last word in is the "winner" and the person who finds talking to a brick wall to be boring/fruitless finds something else to do for a bit/forever. And this I think is a hyuuuuuge problem, because we simply cannot move forward when we have no understanding and empathy and understand that the person on the other side of that monitor is a real human being with feelings and emotions and convictions, just like we are. And throwing up the shields and firing your lasers and torpedoes and treating everything as a battle to be won instead of a shared, human experience we will only get through together is precisely why we aren't accomplishing anything meaningful politically or socially. The only thing that really benefits from this strife is, in fact, corporate America and the media.

So before you crack your knuckles and post that super slick burn retort that just came to you after reading the first two lines in a post, take a step back, breathe, and find something to learn, some way to expand yourself as a human being, because listening and learning, perhaps especially from people we do not share ideas with normally, is the best way to go beyond what you are, instead of moving nowhere.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (30 seconds ago)
2-Nov(#2)
nice, those 5 points are how the etiquette course our mother made us take as kids teaches to have a conversation, and also how most things teach you to have better conversations on dates, with business clients, or whatever.

Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
2-Nov(#3)
Some good points. I caught the first part. It was really long.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 2-Nov(#4)
About 33 minutes into the broadcast is where I picked up that caught my interest. The last bit's also good.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 2-Nov(#5)
One of the biggest problems I see with today's dialogue is that people do not respect each other's experience. Most conversations are not on equal footing but so much PC goes into respecting opinion that is just fallacious.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
2-Nov(#6)
Is everybody really having that hard of a time on here? A little negativity is good for perspective. And some trolling and roasting for a good time. This place isn't so bad. I like the open area where you don't have to be so fudging professional.

That's just me though. I'm an butt-hole, but I'm lovable.

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 2-Nov(#7)
There's casual talk and then there's the crap I know you must go down in these forums at times, where civility's gone, nobody's actually having a conversation, they're just shouting one another out and namecalling and getting angry, and it literally drives people away.

Just something to chew on for a moment before you dive in with snark, take at least five seconds before slamming the "Post Message" button in triumph to consider if you're about to add something of substance to the discussion at hand, or if you're out to "school someone".
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (6 minutes ago)
2-Nov(#8)
I school people like you for breakfast.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Nov(#9)
Never seen it.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
2-Nov(#10)
Gave the OP a snazzier title, also more accurate. I'm not calling for strict enforcement or GTFO, just havin' a discussion about havin' discussions.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
2-Nov(#11)
I don't mind the advice. It's solid. I just don't take this forum that seriously.

I believe if the forum is truly upsetting you, just take a day or two off. Along with policy, we have discussions that could bring our principals and morals into question. That's bound to ruffle a feather or twelve. Not to mention that most of us are quite passionate. That's a good thing, even if it comes off as unmovable.

You need to be willing and able to take a punch if your going to fight for something.

Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
2-Nov(#12)
We take this crap to 11.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
3-Nov(#13)
I enjoy reading all of your opinions. I don't agree and even get annoyed by them, but I take away alot from you guys.
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 3-Nov(#14)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> You need to be willing and able to take a punch if your going to fight for something.
>

Why are you here to fight?
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#15)
DiamondDave wrote:
> MikeyWhoa wrote:
>> You need to be willing and able to take a punch if your going to fight for something.
>>
>
> Why are you here to fight?


I'm not. I have fun here. I'm just not scared of one when it inevitably occurs. Confrontation leads to understanding. That's why I don't mind it as much as most do. A lot of folks have an issue with confrontation, and that's all right. Perhaps even normal.

I want to call folks out on their bullcrap, and get called out on mine. It's just hard for people, myself included, to admit when they're wrong. We're all fighting for what we think is right in our own ways. Misguided as it may be sometimes.

And sometimes we just want to blow off some steam, or have a laugh. That's why we love @Dustin.


DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
3-Nov(#16)
WHY U WANNA FIGHT DAWG
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
3-Nov(#17)
BECAUSE YOU PUSSIES TURNED DOWN MY TUG-O-WAR OFFER

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
3-Nov(#18)
Aight, jeez
Missile
Gold Good Trader
9-Nov(#19)
DiamondDave wrote:
> There's casual talk and then there's the crap I know you must go down in these forums
> at times, where civility's gone, nobody's actually having a conversation, they're
> just shouting one another out and namecalling and getting angry, and it literally
> drives people away.
but that's the best part of this crapposting forum!
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 9-Nov(#20)
*points* DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON YOU

Topic   Forum Decorum: Talking and Listening; Conversation