Politics

Topic   This week in American shootings.

MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#1)
I figured it's best to start a thread covering all mass shootings in America since they happen so frequently, and isn't going to stop anytime soon.

20+ killed, and dozens injured as a gunman shoots up a small church in Sutherland Springs, Texas.

Thoughts and prayers were sent to the victims, who were killed while thinking and praying. Kind, but completely useless.

Trump asked God to be with them because for some reason God wasnt there on a Sunday afternoon while they worshipped Him.

Looking forward to Trumps reaction to policy changes to help stop these shootings from happening. I'm sure he'll suggest forceful and expedited policy changes like he did when an Islamic maniac killed 8 in New York.

Tune in next week.



Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#2)
Thought this was gonna be an informational post on what happened. I just saw it. Instead, political snark.
Feeb
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5-Nov(#3)
More white Christian ex military terror.

This one may hit close to home.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Nov(#4)
More police! Travel Ban! Terrorism! Wait this is about a white Christian dude commiting acts of violence with guns? Lets not get political, thoughts and prayers yo.
Feeb
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5-Nov(#5)
Maybe the Christian community will denounce this.
Scots
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5-Nov(#6)
Where are you guys seeing he was a Christian?
Feeb
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* 5-Nov(#7)
He was a bible study instructor.

Guess he could have been faking.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Nov(#8)
The church needs vet more extremely.
Scots
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5-Nov(#9)
I'm seeing his FB page said he was an atheist. Which is true?
Feeb
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5-Nov(#10)
They're gonna have to spend some of their ill gotten tax exempt cash and provide protection for their people. The govt will probably make us pay for that.
Feeb
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* 5-Nov(#11)
Scots wrote:
> I'm seeing his FB page said he was an atheist. Which is true?

Probably fake news. Makes sense.

I read the bio info here:

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/05/multiple...
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#12)
It should be illegal for this person to possess a gun. Oh wait, it was.
Feeb
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* 5-Nov(#13)
Then the blame goes on enforcement.

And why was it illegal?
Scots
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* 5-Nov(#14)
These are his alleged Facebook likes that are being circulated. I have not seen this 100% confirmed.

image
Scots
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5-Nov(#15)
He was dishonorably discharged, and in Texas that's aequvalent to a felony that would bar one for owning firearms.

Looks like a neighbor got his gun and fired at the guy, who then fled. Might have been the one who killed him too.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#16)
I doubt he really understood or believed in most of that stuff if he shot up a church.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#17)
Scots wrote:
> He was dishonorably discharged, and in Texas that's aequvalent to a felony that would
> bar one for owning firearms.
>
> Looks like a neighbor got his gun and fired at the guy, who then fled. Might have
> been the one who killed him too.

Ah ha. So the gun porn he posted on Facebook should not have been ignored.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Nov(#18)
I guess, he stopped liking the friendly atheists post sometime ago.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#19)
Scots wrote:
> Thought this was gonna be an informational post on what happened. I just saw it.
> Instead, political snark.

I posted info that was available at the time. If there's not enough, feel free to add. I'll add as more confirmed info becomes available.

I apologize for the snarky tone. It's just frustrating watching children and other folks get murdered. Meanwhile elected officials and their NRA obsessed, gun-nut constituents don't seem to want to do anything about it. We can't even have a conversation without being told to shut up, and to not politicize this travesty.

So let's just hope God will comfort those after the fact. Since apparently he's too busy during church hours to maintain his flock.


Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 5-Nov(#20)
They'll do something Mikey they'll arm the churches. Everything is going to be fine. Dont worry.
Scots
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5-Nov(#21)
Even in an apology, can't refrain from mocking Christians and their silly God.
Scots
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5-Nov(#22)
I do feel it's going to be very important for churches to be vigilant. As hate for Christians grows, churches will become targets more and more.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Nov(#23)
Scots, knowing the Christians and the Pastors, Reverends, and Preists that run their churches, they wouldn't advocate for any sort of thing like armed security. Except in those rare outliers. But, the politicians and NRA may most certainly try and advocate for this kind of bullcrap by frightening them.
Scots
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5-Nov(#24)
You're absolutely wrong on that.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 5-Nov(#25)
You're telling me their is a consensus amongst Christians to have armed security at places of worship? That they support this. Even Christ lambasted Peter for using violence to protect him from a mob. Thats even more troublong if it is true
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 5-Nov(#26)
But Christ did want his disciples to have swords to protect themselves so guess, who knows? The only sword Jesus needs is the word of God.
Feeb
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5-Nov(#27)
I'd agree you're possibly wrong. On the merits that the bastardized social groups these Christians go to are not about being like Christ.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
5-Nov(#28)
Feeb wrote:
> I'd agree you're possibly wrong. On the merits that the bastardized social groups
> these Christians go to are not about being like Christ.

You and Scota are likely right. As a person who struggles with God, I suppose perhaps I overestimate his followers.
Scots
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5-Nov(#29)
There are circles that wouldn't, I'm sure. I'll only speak for evangelicals, but the vast majority will absolutely have no problem with armed defense. Self defense is not frowned upon. Many churches and synagogues now have armed security. Many churches encourage concealed carry.
Scots
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* 5-Nov(#30)
Lol you guys. Christians should let people shoot them!
Feeb
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5-Nov(#31)
The demographic suggests you're correct.
Karaiya
Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review
* 5-Nov(#32)
I keep a Rosary in my back pocket. Outside of the religious stuff. This isn't something we should be blaming on the church folks. They are the victims in this situation.

How exactly did he get the firearm? Was it stolen? Is too early for that info still?
Dustin
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5-Nov(#33)
Karaiya wrote:
> How exactly did he get the firearm? Was it stolen? Is too early for that info still?

This is the information that's important for effective gun control. Everyone is too busy trying to assign blame to a side that these questions go unanswered. You can't reform or improve anything without knowing where the problem stems.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#34)
Scots wrote:
> Even in an apology, can't refrain from mocking Christians and their silly God.


I mocked gun-nuts, not Christians Mr. Manipulator. Are you equating the two. If so, I see your point.

And God isn't silly. Jesus is still alright with me. He was merely absent, which I don't think is a controversial point. Unless of course you believe Jesus was there, and just stood by doing nothing while his followers were killed. If that's the case, maybe Jesus is a Republican.


Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#35)
Haha you can't stop doing it.

I'm interested in figuring out more about this but. Not going to respond to continuous mocking.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#36)
Not pc enough for some folks.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#37)
Oh stop doging and playing the phony martyr. The average American Christian is such a "victim" nowadays. By all means, point out where I'm wrong, sir.

Are you taking the day off from mocking today?

Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#38)
Jeezus, mikey, you is pretty hard line on the christian thing, you are definitely interested in that dynamic as you have said before.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#39)
Osiris wrote:
> Jeezus, mikey, you is pretty hard line on the christian thing, you are definitely
> interested in that dynamic as you have said before.


For the first 20 years of my life I was dedicated to it. And it, and every faith revealed it's true colors. There are good and bad lessons to take from Christianity. I just can't understand why such a majority of believers forget about the compassionate, non-violent, nature of Christ that asked us to care for the least of us.

Now they want guns in the church, refugees shunned, army deserters penalized with death, gays hated called abominations. Not to mention they have their hands in every facet of American life, yet have the gall to act victimized whenever questioned.

Their main job is to witness and testify to their fellow man, and bring them to Christ, but have turned into the reason why we avoid religion. Every Christian, including Scots (not blaming him) that I have ever conversed with has turned me further from Christ.

I just like to raise controversial questions about religion because I wish I had someone like that when I was an impressionable kid. I'm treating people how I want to be treated.


DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
5-Nov(#40)
Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone.

Lay the fudge off. It's a terrible tragedy, the Church has its own issues and shortcomings in following Jesus's true teachings but this is not the time nor place to air them. Talk about kicking someone when they're down. Who's the butt-hole now?
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#41)
DiamondDave wrote:
> Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone.
>
> Lay the fudge off. It's a terrible tragedy, the Church has its own issues and shortcomings
> in following Jesus's true teachings but this is not the time nor place to air them.
> Talk about kicking someone when they're down. Who's the butt-hole now?


Again, apologies. I really should learn my place and continue merely praying for victims instead of truly standing with them by demanding we try to prevent people from becoming victims of gun violence.

Bury your heads and the sand, and tweet your sorry's next week when it happens again.

And yes, I am an butt-hole. This has never been denied. I'm not concerned with delicate sensibilities when children are murdered, and my country does nothing. Again. You people are more upset with my tone then the murderer that went off this afternoon because he had easy access to a weapon of mass destruction.


DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 5-Nov(#42)
Did you do anything useful besides kick some Christians in the dick after this? Is this your idea of being helpful and impactful? Because it's not enlightened, it's pretty cunty behavior man.

Be angry, you should be, but this, specifically, you should have thought about a little harder.
Dustin
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5-Nov(#43)
Anyone have any actual ideas for reformed gun control policies? Or do we just want to dog about it blindly?
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#44)
DiamondDave wrote:
> Did you do anything useful besides kick some Christians in the dick after this?
> Is this your idea of being helpful and impactful? Because it's not enlightened,
> it's pretty cunty behavior man.
>
> Be angry, you should be, but this, specifically, you should have thought about
> a little harder.


My wife and I literally wrote e-mails to Sen. Rand Paul and Sen. Mitch McConnell this evening demanding common sense talks and legislation on gun control. Is that enough for you? It's not much, but realistically what else can I do? Any more armchair slacktivism assumptions you want to throw?

Don't come at me with this "think harder" bullcrap. I've been thinking hard about this since December 14, 2012 when another piece of crap shot up a school and murdered children in Newtown. And got plenty angry when the same gun nuts were more concerned with the rights of people like the shooter today, as opposed to the lives of the children and people they kill. And yes, as a father of two young girls, it always hits harder when children are harmed.

Any "Christian" (Insert any religion or Creed) who sends thoughts and prayers, and then does NOTHING else, deserves to be "kicked in the dick". Fudge the Paul Ryan's and Bernie Sanders who tweet then move on.


MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
5-Nov(#45)
Dustin wrote:
> Anyone have any actual ideas for reformed gun control policies? Or do we just want
> to dog about it blindly?

All due respect, I'm not a gun owner, so I've done my part in avoiding gun violence. You own the guns, so shouldn't you be the one speaking up? What do you suggest?


DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 5-Nov(#46)
No.

You're attacking the wrong fudging people. You're not being helpful, you're being antagonistic. The emails, largely, will do nothing, so it's a step above slactivism but hey, at least you got to use it to justify being an butt-hole. What made you think anything you've said or done in this thread is even remotely appropriate or called for? OR, AGAIN, HELPFUL?
Dustin
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* 5-Nov(#47)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> Dustin wrote:
>> Anyone have any actual ideas for reformed gun control policies? Or do we just
> want
>> to dog about it blindly?
>
> All due respect, I'm not a gun owner, so I've done my part in avoiding gun violence.
> You own the guns, so shouldn't you be the one speaking up? What do you suggest?
>
>
>

I'm not the one doging either. I hear a lot of doging, but not a lot of proposed changes. It's easy to just sit back and complain.

Also, even though I own guns, I've never shot anyone. Guess I've done my part in avoiding gun violence too!
DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 5-Nov(#48)
That's because every proposal that would be brought forth either already fudging exists, or wouldn't fudging have changed what happened. So now it's time to piss on the Christians? Like, I enjoy ribbing the uber-devout and righteously indignant just as much as the next dickwad, but this ain't how or when you do it. Politicizing this? Ain't how you fudging do it. So yeah, un-strap your keyboard and think harder.
Feeb
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5-Nov(#49)
Politicizing. A word that equates to bringing the painful truth forward. However a good guy with a gun did help stop him.... bullcrap. Mass shootings with ridiculous weapons are innately politicized.

You're a part of a group that antagonizes the secular / non-Christian world. You need security.

And shame for the deaths of children who never had the understanding to choose to die for Christ. There are no religious children; only children of religious parents.
MikeyWhoa
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5-Nov(#50)
Tune in next week! Hopefully the thoughts and prayers work this time. 297th time is the charm! Don't dog or moan or speak up! That's for slacktivists and snowflakes. Inaction is as American as apple pie!

God will handle it. After the killings occur. The President said so.

Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
5-Nov(#51)
WE WANT ACTION!!!! We have no clue what action, but we demand it, damnit!

For the record, I'm all for more effective gun control. I'd just like to hear some good suggestions.
Feeb
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5-Nov(#52)
Enforce the laws on the books.
Dustin
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5-Nov(#53)
Well that'd be a good start. What laws aren't being enforced?
Feeb
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5-Nov(#54)
Since every time this happens someone makes it clear it was "illegal" looks like quite a few.

Law enforcement has never been a strong point in American society.
Dustin
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5-Nov(#55)
So......stop people from selling things illegally. Got it.
Feeb
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* 5-Nov(#56)
I doubt you "get" much judging from your dismissive attitude towards anything that makes sense.
Dustin
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5-Nov(#57)
I thought I asked a pretty simple question. Your answer was to enforce laws. Ummm, ok. Yeah I'm the one who doesn't get it.
Feeb
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5-Nov(#58)
Pretty obviously. Law enforcement is failing. Your answer is we just can't. But we just can keep out all the bad terrorists.

I have no argument against gullible naivety. You win.
lpeters82
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5-Nov(#59)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> For the first 20 years of my life I was dedicated to it. And it, and every faith
> revealed it's true colors. There are good and bad lessons to take from Christianity.
> I just can't understand why such a majority of believers forget about the compassionate,
> non-violent, nature of Christ that asked us to care for the least of us.
>
> Now they want guns in the church, refugees shunned, army deserters penalized with
> death, gays hated called abominations. Not to mention they have their hands in every
> facet of American life, yet have the gall to act victimized whenever questioned.
>
> Their main job is to witness and testify to their fellow man, and bring them to Christ,
> but have turned into the reason why we avoid religion. Every Christian, including
> Scots (not blaming him) that I have ever conversed with has turned me further from
> Christ.
>
> I just like to raise controversial questions about religion because I wish I had
> someone like that when I was an impressionable kid. I'm treating people how I want
> to be treated.

I went though a bit of a struggle when the local bishop replace our priest with an ultra conservative. This was the same bishop that had removed one of our family friends from a position on the education council because she told him she would let him know when she disagreed with him. He basically told her he needed obedience and ask that if she could not offer that she should step down from her position. Anyway, we very quickly didn't find any joy in our church. So, my wife and I tried several other local churches, but nothing felt right for us. We're Catholic and the other Christian churches just didn't feel right for us. We finally decided to travel out of state to a Catholic church in Iowa. I can't tell you how amazing it felt to finally be in a church that aligned with our beliefs. It wasn't even that we had to agree with each other about everything. We agree on the core and then can have open and respectful discussions about other issues. So refreshing. There is a wide gambit of within most religions. You just have to find a place that respects where you happen to fall on the gambit. I hope you can find that.

Sorry to interject in this thread. This post just happened to catch my attention. Thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families.
Dustin
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6-Nov(#60)
Feeb wrote:
> Pretty obviously. Law enforcement is failing. Your answer is we just can't. But we
> just can keep out all the bad terrorists.
>
> I have no argument against gullible naivety. You win.

That's not my answer at all. I just said I'm all for revamping things. No one seems to have any good suggestions though. I heard your condescension, still waiting for your suggestions though.
Feeb
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6-Nov(#61)
I suggest you contribute or fudge off.
Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
6-Nov(#62)
Should I contribute by making snarky comments knocking Christians? I feel like you've got that avenue covered.

I thought I was contributing by asking what sorts of gun control measures we can put in place to ensure this sort of thing doesn't keep happening.

Maybe you should contribute, or you know, fudge off.
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 6-Nov(#63)
I'm not so insecure. Now scuttle. Or is there another "plot twist" besides the advanced degrees? Troll away.

Your negs are contribution enough. Sheesh.
Dustin
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6-Nov(#64)
Not trolling, asking a legitimate question. Let me know if you come up with a serious answer. If not, feel free to continue with condescension and snark. I have days when I feel like doing that as well, so it's all good. Maybe we can talk seriously about the next issue.

Also I haven't plussed or negged anything during this conversation. I'll go do that now.
Scots
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* 6-Nov(#65)
From everything I've read so far...

He was an atheist who liked to push atheism online. He was dishonorably discharged. He's been charged with assault of his wife and infant. Court martialed in 2014. People who knew him called him crazy and creepy.

He attacked a church of innocent people worshiping. I have not seen how he got the gun, but it appears he must have had it illegally. A civilian successfully stopped the attack by firing at him.

Anyway; that's what I've seen so far. It's been interesting to see the anti-Christian reaction from a church being shot up. The ridiculing of of believers on the same day Christians were massacred is surreal.

We must continue to pray for our country.
MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
* 6-Nov(#66)
Scots wrote:
> From everything I've read so far...
>
> He was an atheist who liked to push atheism online. He was dishonorably discharged.
> He's been charged with assault of his wife and infant. Court martialed in 2014. People
> who knew him called him crazy and creepy.
>
> He attacked a church of innocent people worshiping. I have not seen how he got the
> gun, but it appears he must have had it illegally. A civilian successfully stopped
> the attack by firing at him.
>
> Anyway; that's what I've seen so far. It's been interesting to see the anti-Christian
> reaction from a church being shot up. The ridiculing of of believers on the same
> day Christians were massacred is surreal.
>
> We must continue to pray for our country.


I'm ridiculing beliefs, not believers. I believe you'd say "Hating the sin, not the sinner." I'm calling believers out on their inaction to a deadly trend that has swept the nation. What is it about the right and their selective hearing?

And it's the response of said "Christians" that is appalling. If simply praying fixed this issue, it wouldve been solved ages ago. Don't you think? Or are we not praying correctly? I was criticized for e-mailing my political leaders demanding action. A small effort, I admit, but still accused of doing nothing. But the people who kneel down by themselves and whisper to nobody are somehow helping the situation!?! Let's get real.

You and your cohorts think I'm attacking you and your beliefs. No surprise, that's how every religious person I've ever spoken too feels when their beliefs are scrutinized. I'm just pointing out the failures in those beliefs that have saved NOBODY in the hopes that you'd see that maybe, just maybe, more than prayers are needed.

Which would the victims of yesterday prefer? Prayers after their loved ones are dead, or stringent rules that kept the butt-hole from having this weapon in the first place, ensuring their survival?

Also, @Dustin, fear not. I'm slowly compiling a small list of ideas for reform. Not that it matters, but I don't want your question ignored.


MikeyWhoa
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
* 6-Nov(#67)
Dustin wrote:
> WE WANT ACTION!!!! We have no clue what action, but we demand it, damnit!
>
> For the record, I'm all for more effective gun control. I'd just like to hear some
> good suggestions.


Keep in mind these are launching points, and not necessarily end game suggestions. While I have shot, and enjoyed shooting, I'm not a gun owner, and certainly not an authority on the subject.

Firstly, what I'm NOT for, to hopefully avoid general and lazy accusations.

Not for banning all guns. (Though the arguments should be heard, and are sometimes valid)

Definitely not for Government confiscation.




- Begin with the limiting the strength of the NRA. They've become amazingly capable of radicalizing fearful citizens. They control the voting powers of numerous legislators (both left and right). And perhaps most importantly, have stifled study after study trying to understand why these events happen in America exclusively. There aren't many reports to study. If your pissed that nobody (including yourself) is offering any solutions, it's mostly because we still don't really understand the problem. Thanks largely to the NRA.

- Keep "high risk" individuals from purchasing weapons. These would probably include violent/domestic violence criminals, people with certain physical (blindness) and mental disorders, and heavy drug and alcohol users.

- Limiting the number of firearms and amounts of ammunition each citizen can own. This may sound controversial, I just don't understand why. I don't have an exact number in mind, but I think 5 guns and 500 rounds sounds reasonable. If you need more than that to protect yourself and your family, then I'd suggest you stop being an butt-hole and creating so many enemies. Any private citizen who "needs" more can't have good intentions. I'm also admittedly not 100% sure how to enforce this fully.

- Examine the current weaponry available, and come to a conclusion over which weapons are "overkill". Certain weapons simply aren't for mass consumption. I don't know which weapons these would be. I'd leave that to folks smarter than I of the situation. Military grade weapons would be a start. Ban the manufacturing and sale of these selected weapons and/or ammunition.

- Encourage and incentivize safety technology. I need to open my damn iPhone with a thumb scan. This should be capable on future gun manufacturing. I'm also sure there are other safety technologies that I'm not aware of.

- More responsible and more stringent training and licensing policies. Laws ensuring that the purchaser knows, and is aware of local/federal gun laws, knows how to safely load, shoot, and store firearms.

- Do a better job on both a local and federal level of regulating gun dealers.

- Chris Rock rule. All bullets cost $5000 a piece. Anybody that gets shot must deserve it at that price. No more innocent bystanders. (A little levity hiding in a solid point)

There's just a few. As a safe and registered gun owner with much more insight, I'd love to hear your suggestions, or thoughts on mine. Gotta get back to work.


DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 6-Nov(#68)
Realistically, the only way these will ever stop happening so frequently is getting rid of all the guns. Most people calling for stricter measures and legislators simply do not get it. Bottom line is, generally, all this crap's obviously illegal. All these are my own opinions obviously, none of us are legal or firearm experts. Basically these regulations and laws simply drive sales of such things (Bullets costing $5K per, banning guns that meet some threshold of kill per second ratios) underground, making them harder to track and keep tabs on, but even IF we had eyes-on everything ever sold, there's so much sold that it's literally impossible to do anything useful with that information.

The point of "overkill" guns is to retain parity with the tyrannical or invasive forces we supposedly defend ourselves against. No sense in allowing private citizens to only own six shooters if the Government is still carrying truck-mounted miniguns and the Tailban are carrying supersonic organic matter melters.

Honestly whenever people get defensive about "I'm not calling on a ban on all guns", my response is "Why not?" Look at Australia and the UK, gun violence very obviously tanked once they took them off the streets and out of homes. The logistics of doing that in America are a nightmare, but if you're looking for the best, most effective legislative response to mass killings, like... there you go, it's right there. Dismissing it out of fear of people thinking you're being ridiculous would be tantamount to willful ignorance.

I'm not a gun owner, I don't necessarily want or not want to be a gun owner, but I find the talk of "gun control" to be tiresome because it never amounts to a gosh darn thing. To me, THAT is as effective as thoughts and prayers, only more disingenuous because the left-centered politicians use them as badges they can cash in for free re-election and pat themselves on the back even as they stop nothing. So to me, it's either "Stop setting up gun-free zones because they're basically 'free kills' signs for people looking to hurt a lot of people at once and quickly" or "Fudge it, reach some moral epiphany as a country and disarm". I'm not saying that a good guy with a gun is going to stop a bad guy with a gun every time, I'm just saying these butt-holes are less inclined to take chances if they have some understanding that they COULD get popped off two shots into their killing spree. Which is why these generally happen in densely-populated areas where guns are verboten.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 6-Nov(#69)
From what I understand, this particular weapon was a AR15, civilian version of M16, and was banned for sale from 1994-2004. The ban expired and several attempts to continue the ban failed in Congress. Similar weapon used at Sandy Hook, but I am not familiar with the particulars of firearms.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews Secret Santa
6-Nov(#70)
drugs are illegal, criminals still get them. there have always been maniacs and people who want to hurt others, if they don't have gun, they will use a truck. or a bomb, which can be made from fertilizers and items you can buy at wal mart and home depot. people who want to do this will use whatever they have or can get.

this country has never been militarily invaded in a world war or other modern conflict and never will be, because the world knows the populace is armed. is it a double edged sword? do some people have them that shouldn't? ya, but that is 1%. people get shot everyday, stabbed, every day, run over, beaten to death. social media and the media in general just make it easier to keep it in our faces. is it bad, yes. do we wish these kinds of things didn't happen? of course. some years ago, a story like what happened in this church MIGHT have been a story on your local news, but if it was far enough from the area not as big of one. there may have been a sidebar In the paper the next day. people doing bad things isn't new. its just magnified a lot. does that lessen the problem or make it any less sad? no. but.. no amount of laws, or controls, can stop it. if someone wants to do something like this the horrible reality is that they are going to. its a shame that often these people die before they can find out why they did it. in the cases of RMT, we already know, but when they seemingly normal guy next door snaps its not always so clear.


Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 6-Nov(#71)
MikeyWhoa wrote:
> - Begin with the limiting the strength of the NRA. They've become amazingly capable
> of radicalizing fearful citizens. They control the voting powers of numerous legislators
> (both left and right). And perhaps most importantly, have stifled study after study
> trying to understand why these events happen in America exclusively. There aren't
> many reports to study. If your pissed that nobody (including yourself) is offering
> any solutions, it's mostly because we still don't really understand the problem.
> Thanks largely to the NRA.

I agree the NRA is powerful, and sometimes overreaching. I don't know how you limit their strength though. I think it's a slippery slope when you try and control special interest groups. Should we limit the power of the ACLU and other similar groups? If we do it to one, we can do it to all and that may defeat the purpose of those groups existing. Although, back to your point, I'm not entirely familiar with the NRA and what they do, but from what I've seen they seem to want little to no new gun control measures, and I don't agree with that.

>
> - Keep "high risk" individuals from purchasing weapons. These would probably
> include violent/domestic violence criminals, people with certain physical (blindness)
> and mental disorders, and heavy drug and alcohol users.

I can agree with this, although this is semi already in place. People with these kinds of criminal records are likely already unable to buy a firearm. As for the other examples, I agree there to, but only to an extent. Mental instability is obviously the driving factor behind all of these mass shootings. No matter what political affiliation you have or what groups you follow, you're not going to do something like this unless there's something wrong with your brain. So I think this is an area that a lot of attention should be paid. I think you would have to be extremely careful in how you would implement any new policies though. One example, do you limit someone who takes medication for depression? I used to take anxiety medication, which can also be used to treat depression. Would I be on the list as someone who can't purchase a firearm? I've never battled depression, but based on that medication, it could have been viewed that way. Overall I agree with you on your overall point though, and like I said, mental wellness, to me, is an important area to hit.

>
> - Limiting the number of firearms and amounts of ammunition each citizen can own.
> This may sound controversial, I just don't understand why. I don't have an exact
> number in mind, but I think 5 guns and 500 rounds sounds reasonable. If you need
> more than that to protect yourself and your family, then I'd suggest you stop being
> an butt-hole and creating so many enemies. Any private citizen who "needs" more can't
> have good intentions. I'm also admittedly not 100% sure how to enforce this fully.
>

I don't agree with this one at all. I won't go into any details other than I totally disagree with it. Just my opinion.

>
> - Examine the current weaponry available, and come to a conclusion over which weapons
> are "overkill". Certain weapons simply aren't for mass consumption. I don't know
> which weapons these would be. I'd leave that to folks smarter than I of the situation.
> Military grade weapons would be a start. Ban the manufacturing and sale of these
> selected weapons and/or ammunition.

Again this is largely already done. You can't buy fully automatic weapons without miles of red tape. If you're thinking of banning semi automatic weapons too, then you're basically talking about limiting people to bolt action rifles and revolvers since just about all handguns are semiautomatic. I can't get behind that. I CAN get behind banning things like bumpfire stocks and other devices that are used to make a semiautomatic gun operate similar to an automatic one. To me, those devices aren't necessary.

>
> - Encourage and incentivize safety technology. I need to open my damn iPhone with
> a thumb scan. This should be capable on future gun manufacturing. I'm also sure there
> are other safety technologies that I'm not aware of.

I don't understand this one so no comment.

>
> - More responsible and more stringent training and licensing policies. Laws ensuring
> that the purchaser knows, and is aware of local/federal gun laws, knows how to safely
> load, shoot, and store firearms.

This is good in theory and I can get behind it. The onus is currently on the buyer to know the law and operate safely. It would be nice to have an outline of the laws/readily available safety training though. I don't this this would do anything to help gun violence at all, but would probably help with accidental injuries.

>
> - Do a better job on both a local and federal level of regulating gun dealers.
>

Local and federal level gun dealers are already heavily regulated and are forced to keep extremely detailed records and for a pretty long time. If you screw things up, you can easily lose your license. I don't think it's the gun dealers who are failing in these cases. I don't know for certain but it doesn't seem like this people are illegally purchasing guns from gun dealers.

> - Chris Rock rule. All bullets cost $5000 a piece. Anybody that gets shot must deserve
> it at that price. No more innocent bystanders. (A little levity hiding in a solid
> point)
>

lol

> There's just a few. As a safe and registered gun owner with much more insight, I'd
> love to hear your suggestions, or thoughts on mine. Gotta get back to work.
>
>
>

I appreciate your insight. I think you can see we're not worlds apart on some of our thoughts.

As for my suggestions, there's one glaring failure that comes to mind. There is no background check currently required when buying a rifle from another private citizen. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I bought an AK47 in a gas station parking lot one time. No paperwork was legally required. To me, that concept is insane. The law states "if you suspect this person cannot own a firearm, you can't sell it to them" or something like that. How does some stranger know what I'm up to? Any time any firearm changes ownership, a background check should be required.

Speaking of background checks, I don't know what they're currently checking for, but I wouldn't be opposed to a more stringent check. Even if it meant I'd have to wait to purchase a gun, I'd be okay with that. Currently I can walk in and be done in 15 minutes. I don't know if the system is just that good, or if they're not checking enough stuff about me.

Those are two things off the top of my head that may contribute. Although, in my opinion, NOTHING short of banning all guns would stop these things, which obviously isn't possible. That's not to say we shouldn't try, but I think we all know if someone wants to do harm like this, they're going to figure out a way to do it. People screaming for gun control, thinking some new laws are going to fix anything, are ignorant of reality. If a person has no criminal record or history of mental illness decides they're going to do something like this, there isn't much going to stop them.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 6-Nov(#72)
I don't think the US hasn't been invaded due to citizens bearing arms, in previous time we were protected by the oceans, large naval force and the vastness of the country, more recently the size and financing of the military, then of course the nuke arsenal and the willingness to use it.

Red Dawn scenario where Cuban/Russian surrogates parachute in and are battled by armed teenagers in the heartland? Nah.
Nice myth though.
Osiris
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
6-Nov(#73)
I think Mikey is talking about fingerprint ID tying a firearms ability to fire to an particular individual.

I am still hoping we will use the "well-regulated militia" language as a framework for citizen firearm possession.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews Secret Santa
* 6-Nov(#74)
if only that were a myth, if they try that crap in texas, they wont last a day. that's just a fact

muslims are running wild acting a fool and destroying Europe because they aren't afraid of the population. that isn't happening here on that scale. british police cant even fight back properly. because they aren't well armed and they aren't afraid of them.

Chicago and Detroit , have more gun laws than most and are the most violent and crime torn places we have. those cities skew the numbers in America greatly.

Dustin
GameTZ Subscriber 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
6-Nov(#75)
Osiris wrote:
> I think Mikey is talking about fingerprint ID tying a firearms ability to fire to
> an particular individual.
>

Oh I gotcha. Yeah I've seen those things before. I don't like that idea at all with the current technology we have. If my finger is a little wet or something, my iphone won't recognize the print. Heaven forbid I'd be in a situation where I need to defend myself and my gun doesn't work because my hands are wet or it doesn't recognize for whatever reason. Yes, I understand that's a stretch scenario, but I think fingerprint systems on guns is a stretch idea.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews Secret Santa
6-Nov(#76)
judge dredd actually came up with that idea, the lawgiver only fires when reading the dna of the judge, but that's sci fi lol

DiamondDave
GameTZ Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
6-Nov(#77)
And as we saw, turns to crap when your test-tube twin gets hold of your badge and gun.
tonymack21
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 3 Reviews Secret Santa
6-Nov(#78)
yes, damn test tube twins.

Shane12m
Triple Gold Good Trader
6-Nov(#79)
Idk why I keep popping back into this forum, some of you are just the worst.
Scots
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
6-Nov(#80)
Local plumber and another civilian took the guy down.

http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshooting-plumber...

Topic   This week in American shootings.