I think it's a bit difficult to find things with the current arrangement that splits the marketplaces into Console, Digital and everything else. If you're looking for Movies/TV chances are you'll find it in the Digital Marketplace, but if you're looking for console games you can find it in either, and sometimes even once General. It would make more sense if we split things by content rather than whether it's physical or digital. think the best way to go would be:
1. Modern Marketplace (current/recent gem games)
2. Retro Marketplace (retro games)
3. Movie Marketplace (movies/TV codes that make up about 90% of the current Digital Marketplace plus any physical media trades too)
4. General Marketplace (everything else)
Forum changes are often challenging as different people tend to have different goals/opinions about it. It's usually hard to come up with a change everyone or even most people are happy with.
Also, there are a lot of forums and you really need to take into account all of them in most cases. For example, here's the official list of marketplace forums:
'Classifieds', 'Console_Marketplace', 'Auctions', 'Digital_Marketplace', 'Portable_Marketplace', 'Wanted', 'Vintage_Games', 'General_Marketplace', 'Movies_Marketplace'
There are other forums that are a mix of discussion and trading too, I think. Many forums aren't getting a lot of activity, and as the site continues to get less usage it's bound to slow down even more.
I assume many people still like having the more-specific forums even though they don't get many posts as they can be helpful to find a topic they are interested in vs sifting through a lot of general seller topics (Gren made this point in the previous topic we had about forum changes 2 months ago).
Some forums like Classifieds, Wanted, and Auctions have a specific angle to them that we'd lose if we dumped them all into General_Marketplace. I assume some wouldn't be happy about that.
I'm willing to make any change that we seem to have a strong consensus on. Merging forums isn't that much work, though it's not reversible, so it's best to be sure. GameTZ users tend to react badly to change in most cases, so it's usually best not to do stuff without good reason (e.g. something that is really broken, etc.).
whitefire brought up a forum change suggestion fairly recently and you can see from some of the replies what the reaction was like: https://gametz.com/Site_Feedback/less-forums--5991...
In that case, the focus was for people to use the "All Topics" feature and I made it on for everyone after that.
I think portable and console marketplace and PC could probably be merged into a single Gaming Marketplace (there really isn't much in the way of dedicated portable systems anymore with the Switch officially putting the 3DS to rest).
Classifieds is BY FAR my favorite of the marketplace forums just because people have to post prices. Not especially great for trading, but for buying/selling it's my top choice.
As many things switch more to digital (particularly PC games and movies) I can also see the benefit of dropping the separate digital marketplace forum. I do think there are a large number of users on this site who are physical only, but since so much digital stuff is posted outside the digital marketplace now anyway, I don't see a need for a separate forum. Just keep your subject lines specific! If yo are selling UV codes, it's easy to do that in the subject so someone doesn't go in expecting blurays and waste their time.
I also like having Anime as a separate forum because there is often quite a divide between people who like it and people who don't. The people who don't probably don't want to scroll through posts of anime for sale, and for the people who do, it'd be hassle to scroll through pages of non-anime listings for the few anime sale topics.
We already do sort of have a retro marketplace forum in Vintage Games, although even that usually gets crossposted to Classifieds and Console/Portable Marketplace as appropriate. So I'd be ok with that one being merged as well if we're looking at streamlining.
I'd also ditch the Auctions, Boxes/Manuals (move to Gaming), Collectibles (move to General), Electronics (move to General) and Subtime Trading (move to wherever relevant? General for buying/selling, and the appropriate marketplace depending on what you'd trading).
It hurts to say, but I would consider dropping the Imports forum as well. It's kind of like anime in that you love them or want nothing to do with them. But it used to be a much bigger deal back when there were more worthwhile games that didn't come stateside. It's also a big part of my early adulthood as a Saturn owner. However, there have been all of 4 topics posted there in the last 2 years.
So here's what I would have left at the end:
Canadian Marketplace (maybe - do any of the Canadians still on this site use it over the regular marketplace forums?)
I say implode it all and have simply Classifieds (must list a price) and General Marketplace (anything goes).
There's never going to be a consensus on any of this. Something to make this look like less of a ghost town in it's final years would be great though. As it is now we're going to start losing people since anytime they look into the site they see more topics marked "Gone" or "Sold" then threads where items are still available.
> Why is it that everyone's resigned to the site shutting down for the next few years?
Because all the video game money is being spent on tomato heads and Carlton dances in Fortnite. None of that translates into GameTZ activity.
Because retro games have gotten ridiculously expensive, which prices a lot of people out of that market, which shrinks GameTZ activity.
Because the present of PC gaming and the future of console gaming is full digital (Microsoft is testing those waters
now). GameTZ is a lot less exciting when all the trade topics are people selling PSN and eShop codes.
Because trading games, listing conditions, making matches, etc. a whole lot harder than just sticking a price tag on a stock photo and telling millions of eBay users to take it or leave it.
People have been trying to declare this site dead for 10 years or more. It's not dead yet.
I got a image
yesterday. Pretty sure it'll be a image
> Canadian Marketplace (maybe - do any of the Canadians still on this site use it over
> the regular marketplace forums?)
> Gaming Marketplace
> TV/Movies Marketplace
> General Marketplace
> Imports (maybe)
I mostly like this. If it were completely up to me, I would leave the Digital Marketplace for now. I could see eventually merging it though. Also, I would get rid of Classifieds, but require prices for anything being sold site-wide. Finally, why not merge Anime and Imports into General Marketplace? Anime has only had 25 threads this entire year, and Imports has only had 2.
That's just me though. I could definitely get on board with the above if most people seem to like it. It's still a huge improvement over the current setup.
> I have no plans to shut down the site. There has been continued decline in usage
> but I suspect that may level off. Financially, things are still fine.
Well, if you ever need to raise the sub price, we're with you.
How many of the topics in Classifieds, Digital, and General marketplace are deleted and reposted Six Flags tickets and AMC drinks/popcorn is what I'm really curious about.
Is that still happening? I disabled deleting posts to try to address that. *sigh*Scott wrote:
> Something like that already exists, except it shows all new threads or threads with
> new messages in all forums you follow, not just marketplace. It's kind of slow to
> load though, or I would use it more often.
All Topics is slow for you? Hm... It seems good to me... I even signed on as you to see if it was slow and it seemed reasonably fast.
> Scott wrote:
>> Something like that already exists, except it shows all new threads or threads
>> new messages in all forums you follow, not just marketplace. It's kind of slow
>> load though, or I would use it more often.
> All Topics is slow for you? Hm... It seems good to me... I even signed on as
> you to see if it was slow and it seemed reasonably fast.
I guess it's not that
slow. Shouldn't have said anything.
> So, here's the proposal: make a link similar to AMNR called "All Marketplace Posts"
> or AMP. It would basically be a way to see all posts in the marketplace forums you
> follow, thereby creating your own personalized super-forum.
As Scott mentioned, I think this would be functionally quite similar to All Topics
Also, it doesn't really address the ghost town issue since the more specific forums without many posts per year would still look dead most of the time.
I couldn't think of a better term then "ghost town". To be fair, it's happening other places. 75 percent of CAG is dead. Releasing the forum update currently in beta won't fix that overnight. The deals forum is all anyone looks at anymore.
In other news Nintendoage/Segaage forums are dead and buried. Both sites were sold and everyone left. It's a bad situation overall because instead of working with the people and mods to keep things going, the owner sold the site data to a company. The mass exodus went to Videogamesage.com which is active.
Consolidation and streamlining is starting to happen everywhere.
I didn't know that. That's sad to hear.
For what it's worth, I can't imagine a situation in which I'd sell this site or its data.
It's hard to predict what will happen in the future. One data point I have is that other website I made before GTZ where people make surveys. It was never that popular and its community shrunk and we stopped getting new accounts years ago (besides spammers). Eventually, I made it private (no new accounts, no guest access, ads or search engine indexing). I assumed it would die as the last few people left. But, that small group of people just keep going and going and it's fine/healthy.
I imagine GTZ might do something similar as I sense there's also a decent size group of people here who will keep coming back as long as its around. I'm game to ride that out. There may be some challenges coming, but I'll communicate them as I see them. I know it's kind of scary and depressing to think about this sort of thing. But, it's also kind of amazing and beautiful that we were one of the first, we're still here and may be one of the last to survive despite all odds.
I personally have lost faith in the Internet in general. I've deleted many accounts and most of the data I could track down. I have concerns about privacy and how the business models of most modern tech companies exploit and manipulate people. This isn't the Internet I was excited about 20+ years ago.
One of my biggest concerns with GameTZ is all its data. Not that I think any of it is especially valuable or risky, but who knows. Given the nature of this site (e.g. reputation building), it's hard to delete any of it. There's a big responsibility being the keeper of it. But, I digress.
> bill wrote:
>> I imagine GTZ might do something similar as I sense there's also a decent size
>> of people here who will keep coming back as long as its around. I'm game to ride
>> that out.
I second this!
It's an interesting case because the new owners (GoCollect) bought the site for its data to integrate into their collecting apps, but told everyone that they owned their data and would lose nothing. Then they turned off the forums and replaced it with their own, claiming that the data would be integrated someday. Everyone gets pissed and mass exodus to the new site which is trying to recreate the data set/guides. The point I brought up over there is if John Doe made data on Nintendoage and creates a new account on Sage, can he go into Archive.org and copy his data verbatim to Sage without violating intellect property ownership rights? GoCollect's stance has been "whatever". So it begs the question: what was actually purchased: The rights to NintendoAge's data or the rights to wipe it out so it's no longer competition to another site?
Physical gaming isn't dead in the slightest. How people obtain, collect and sell physical media is changing dramatically.
> re: forum - I noticed that benstylus's post #4 above has been getting
> a little complicated and some bits are unclear, but maybe we could try to build more
> off of that or iron out some of the specifics.
> I think it would be fairly major and potentially upset some folks, but also seems
> to address many concerns and perhaps puts us on a better footing moving forward.
I plussed that one for a lot of reasons. I really agree with liking Classifieds for the reason he stated but going specifically into forum merging/purging ideas... I think axing Digital is fine because as he stated the landscape is shifting towards digital, it's expected and isn't a big deal. Truncating Console/Portable/PC to simply Gaming I think is a fine idea as well. As far as Imports I will take it a step beyond what benstylus did and recommend just removing it. I deal in plenty of imports and have never felt the urge to list in the import section. Typically I will just post them in Classifieds and/or Vintage. It's easy enough to denote that your game isn't US region. I think with the complete lack of traffic there, this is an easy decision.
@Bill I'll break down what Benstylus is proposing.
Anime - keep as-is
Boxes_Manuals - merge into new Gaming_Marketplace forum
Canadian Marketplace - keep as-is?
Classifieds - keep as-is
Collectibles - merge into General_Marketplace
Console_Marketplace - merge into new Gaming_Marketplace forum
Digital_Marketplace - remove, users will list items in either Gaming, Movies/TV, or General
Electronics - merge into General_Marketplace
General Marketplace - keep, other forums will merge into it
Imports - keep as-is
Movies/TV Marketplace - We already have Movies_Marketplace, I guess just rename it to add "TV" to the name?
PC - merge into new Gaming_Marketplace forum
Portable_Marketplace - merge into new Gaming_Marketplace forum
Subscription_Trading - he didn't say where, I assume merge into General_Marketplace
Vintage_Games - merge into new Gaming_Marketplace forum
I still think it makes sense to merge Anime and Imports as well, since they're barely used, but I don't use either of them and can easily ignore them, so it doesn't really affect me personally. Also, Canadian Marketplace is barely used either, so I don't really see the point of that one anymore, but again, it doesn't affect me.
> How about just classifieds (sales only), general marketplace (for trading) and digital
> marketplace (the only place digital items can be posted). Makes the most sense to
This makes sense, simple is better.
I would add a Digital Marketplace into the equation though.
I like what benstylus and Scott are proposing.
> Canadian Marketplace
> Gaming Marketplace
> Movies/TV Marketplace
> General Marketplace
> I still think it makes sense to merge Anime and Imports as well, since they're barely
> used, but I don't use either of them and can easily ignore them, so it doesn't really
> affect me personally. Also, Canadian Marketplace is barely used either, so I don't
> really see the point of that one anymore, but again, it doesn't affect me.
I do like having Anime separate for the reasons I mentioned above - while there is some crossover between anime fans and general t.v./movie fans, there are plenty of t.v./movie fans who cringe at the sight of anime, and shout words like weeaboo at anything even remotely resembling it. Likewise there are anime fans who don't want to follow the tv/movies marketplace forum just to catch the occasional thread with some anime posted. And although it's not overly active, it's easy to ignore for anyone not interested.
I haven't used the Imports forum in forever so I'm ok with merging it into the Gaming Marketplace. Just makes me sad because memories.
Canadian Marketplace, we should get the opinion of the Canadians since they would be the ones most affected if it merged. If they don't mind, I don't mind it disappearing.
I think keeping the Wanted forum alive is also good. Having a separate place dedicated to what you want instead of just what you have to sell is nice, and it is pretty active. So:
and Canadian Marketplace if there's still some demand for it.
Someone suggested requiring prices sitewide, and I think that's a bad idea for a site with a heavy emphasis on trading. Also when people post large lists of items, it can be a lot of work to put prices on everything, especially when only 20% or so of the items have any interest. Having the Classifieds is a best of both worlds situation. If you as a buyer only want to deal with people who list prices, then you can ignore the other forums and just look at the Classifieds.
How much traction does Wanted actually get now?
> How much traction does Wanted actually get now?
> | forum | topics | posts |
> | VideoGame_Discussion | 301 | 33720 |
> | General | 594 | 32165 |
> | Vintage_Games | 116 | 9712 |
> | Console_Marketplace | 929 | 4854 |
> | Classifieds | 1105 | 4005 |
> | General_Marketplace | 653 | 3648 |
> | Digital_Marketplace | 718 | 2409 |
> | Hot_Deals | 217 | 2231 |
> | Site_Feedback | 30 | 831 |
> | Collectibles | 44 | 318 |
> | Anime | 26 | 301 |
> | Portable_Marketplace | 78 | 280 |
> | Movies_Marketplace | 97 | 273 |
> | PC | 59 | 249 |
> | Wanted | 76 | 172 |
> | Boxes_Manuals | 59 | 172 |
> | Referrals | 8 | 53 |
> | Auctions | 23 | 39 |
> | Electronics | 8 | 22 |
> | FAQ | 3 | 13 |
> | Canadian_Marketplace | 3 | 5 |
> | Subscription_Trading | 3 | 3 |
> | Imports | 2 | 2 |
@Scott thanks for the list of each forum and its destiny. That helps me put it together in more detail.
There are a few forums we haven't talked much about like Auctions and Referrals that might be worth looking it as well. I may try to come up with a master list based of Scott's that includes all forums (from the stats posts I made).
I love Canada, but Canadian Marketplace is on the bottom of the usage list, so I think we should just let it go.
I think Wanted could go as it's easy to just put "Wanted: " in a subject line instead.
Movies/TV Marketplace - Note that this name is problematic as any non-alphanumeric character in a title causes problems for links/URLs and forward-slash ("/") is one of the worst as it's a reserved path-name character.
So, um... Video_Marketplace (meh) or just keep Movies_Marketplace ?
In general, not changing the name of a forum is a lot easier for me (there are cases of forum names being encoded into site db records such that changing them is hard and tricky to get right).
Do we really need to make Gaming Marketplace ? I can see the point, just not sure it's worth the upset. I am OK with it, but phasing out the by-far most popular forum (Console_Marketplace) is a big deal in many ways.
There are some details to how I do these changes that could be better/worse for people. e.g. we could make entirely new forums and phase out the old ones (keeping their names but not allowing new topics/posts). Or, we could change the name and move all existing topics to new forum names, thus eradicating forums from all history (Console_Marketplace, never heard of it!) Or a hybrid approach of just moving over the active topics to the new forum names. There are also archive forums that are hard/impossible to change too much. Off hand, the hybrid idea is most appealing to me, or simply not changing the names of our historically most popular forums. Or, maybe there's a better way to see this...
Another aspect is how to do the "forums you're following" logic conversions. For example, let's say user X is following Collectibles but not General_Marketplace, and we do the merges Scott outlined. Should they then follow General_Marketplace? I think so, but it's a little dodgy since they likely had made a choice not to in the past. Not a huge big deal, but one of the many details of this overhaul that may impact people that I should keep in mind.
Is there a particular reason to why you're holding on to archived marketplace threads? Discussion and general I can see but why keep archived marketplace? I'm talking more then nostalgic searches by users here.
Would it be easier to keyword tag thread titles (digital)?
I like it, I would say keep Digital by itself... for now.
Merge FAQ with Site Feedback. Auction and referrals can go in General marketplace and people can just type Auction or Referral in the title.
This would leave a clean 10 public forums:
I suggested nuking marketplace archive so people would stop looking at old posts. Sometimes reminiscing too much can be a bad thing. If there's real data here on par with say Nintendo Age's curated guides that's different.
> Can you give me an example of stuff you'd look up in the archive? How often is
> it stuff that's over 5 years old?
> I can see the case for saving Videogame_Discussion topics as they probably have more
> value that past marketplace and/or general stuff. Also, probably less cases of drunken
> rants and such too. But, it's also the most popular forum at this point, so keeping
> it may keep the archive large, thus slow and hard to work with.
For General, it varies. Every once in a while I'll think of an old discussion that took place and want to reference something in it. Maybe a thread where somebody was looking for advice on something and I want to see what people said. Or maybe I want to look up a review/long post I made about a movie/tv show/etc.
For Videogame_Discussion, I've made tons of longs posts over the years, summing up my thoughts on various games, franchises, and all sorts of things gaming related. I often find myself retrieving those from the archive, either to re-post here in a new discussion, or post on another site.
I care much more about Videogame_Discussion though. But, if it needs to go, then it needs to go.