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Topic   traders just sitting on offers

Alaisiagae
Silver Good Trader
* 14-Nov-2017(#1)
Some traders simply ignore the offer until it expires. This doesn't appear to negatively impact the "response time" calculation. I sent an offer over a week ago to a trader, and that trader last logged on yesterday... and the offer is just sitting there in limbo. This behavior is inconsiderate and discourteous because it leaves me in limbo wondering if the other trader is interested or if I should send out other trade offers.
This is not the first incidence of this type of behavior from traders - in my recent experiences, the veteran traders (>1 gold star) do this far more often than GTZ members with fewer trades.
Out of annoyance, I set the offer expiry to 90 days. However, I would not be surprised if, after those 90 days elapse, the trader still hasn't replied to the offer... and the response time will likely not reflect this behavior.
Has anyone else run into this behavior from traders?
Is the time that the offer is ignored part of the "offer response time" calculation? If not, then I suggest that it ought to factor into that calculation, so that the response time accurately reflects "non-response" and lapsed offers.
HAMMER
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Nov-2017(#2)
A lot of people don't have their lists up to date and get offers for things they don't have.

I exclusively use forums to set up deals. Much easier to find what you are looking for and find people looking for what you have.
Porksta
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 350 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally This user is on the site NOW (52 seconds ago)
15-Nov-2017(#3)
IIRC it doesn't matter how long they let the offer sit and expire - the most that can be added to a response time is three days.

I came up with the idea to freeze accounts that let offers expire (being that if you weren't responding, you weren't trading) but I don't think it caught on.

NathanOfLight
GameTZ Subscriber 300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
15-Nov-2017(#4)
I'd send out other offers, and don't be hung up on any one offer. If you have multiple offers for the same item (selected from your list), it will auto-decline the other offers with a message saying the item is pended.

Then make a mental note of the trader and avoid offers with them, if you choose. Or subscribe and put a note on their account that they're discourteous to you.

Basically, it happens. But don't let it get to you.
bill
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (15) Has Written 26 Reviews
* 15-Nov-2017(#5)
Slow responses do have an effect. The average response time is just that. So, the effect can be small if they have a lot of offers otherwise (given how averages work). The bad effect is capped at 7 days (not 3). I can look into someone's response time score, if you like. I have a tool that shows all the numbers that go into the average.

I agree it's inconsiderate not to respond to offers. I disagree that it's more often veteran traders. I know of a few like that, but most are very good at responding.

I don't think setting the expiration to 90 days is a good idea. That just puts you in limbo longer. You may want to set it to something shorter (2 days instead of the default 3) instead. If someone doesn't respond, it very likely means they are not interested.

I think NathanOfLight makes a good point. Just move on and send out offers to other people. From what I've seen, the shotgun effect is the most effective (traders who have done this make a lot more trades from what I've seen over the years). Also, just the attitude of not worrying about it or getting attached to a specific offer/match/trades if you don't get a response helps a lot.

I absolutely agree it sucks when someone doesn't respond. It's not at all a new problem. This has gotten reported many times in the past. We've tried some things (e.g. the response time was added at some point, I've talked to the people who do it, there have been long discussion here about it). But there's no reasonable solution as far as I can tell. Thus, the best thing is just to assume they declined if they let it expire.

> Has anyone else run into this behavior from traders?

Tons of people. It's a well known problem on GameTZ and has been reported for over a decade if not more.

> Is the time that the offer is ignored part of the "offer response time" calculation?

I'm not sure I follow this (not sure what you mean by "ignored"), but I think the answer is yes. The time is based on when the offer was originally created until the other traders makes some response (counter/message/decline/etc) to the offer. It doesn't count anything after that so if there's some back and forth with counters, that's not part of it.

I can look into individual cases, if you like (e.g. the effect an offer you sent may have had). I think the effect only becomes part of the average once the offer is resolved (so if you're still waiting on one of those 90s, it may not have impacted yet ... and the effect is capped at 7 days).

But, just to emphasize the point again, getting all bent out of shape over this (which is understandable), doesn't do much good for anyone. If you can refocus on making other trades with other traders, you'll be better off in the end. Leave expiration at 3 days or consider making it 2 days. When it expires, take it as a decline and move on.
A very common reason for lack of response is that people dislike saying "no" to someone (and don't want to haggle over something they're not interested in). Send out lots of offers and don't get too attached. Use the forum as HAMMER points out, many say it's the best place to make trades.
Alaisiagae
Silver Good Trader
16-Nov-2017(#6)
Thank you to everyone for your replies and insights into the situation. I know tone is hard to glean from mere text, but I really am not 'bent out of shape' or attached to any specific matches/offers - just moderately exasperated. For me, that's like a 1 or 2 out of 10 on my anger scale. smile In some of these situations, the match has existed for years... I am baffled as to why someone would not pursue an offer for games on their want list. I can understand someone wanting to hold off in case something a little better turns up... but to hold off for >5 years?

From what you say, it sounds as though I have been fortunate to typically receive timely replies from the GTZ members to whom I send offers. It also sounds like I may need to expand my wishlist so that I can get enough matches for the 'shotgun' approach.

Out of curiosity, what happened to the feature where I could filter out ('hide') matches with specific users? Is the funtion only available to subscribers?

Bill, I'm reluctant to name names - as you say, people have their reasons (even though I may disagree with them!), and the issue is about ettiquete rather than any violation of the GTZ site rules.

Regarding Hammer's comment - actually, I have the opposite stance. I think the match system is fantastic, because it saves so much time (spending hours scouring forum posts, watching posts for updates, etc.). I rarely look at the forums because I don't like slogging through scores of posts and topics that may or may not be up-to-date.
HAMMER
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Nov-2017(#7)
I'm confident that most people's lists are very out of date. Mine being years out of date.

You are wasting your time sending offers to people who A. Don't have it anymore
B. Don't want to trade it
C. Aren't active users
bill
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (15) Has Written 26 Reviews
17-Nov-2017(#8)
Alaisiagae wrote:
> Out of curiosity, what happened to the feature where I could filter out ('hide')
> matches with specific users? Is the funtion only available to subscribers?

I'm not sure I remember clearly, but I recall there was always a technical issue with it where hidden matches would come back if/when matches were regenerated (which could happen in a few case). So, basically, it didn't work very well. And, I had no way to fix it. So, I removed it. It's not sub-only.

> Bill, I'm reluctant to name names -

I meant to say that you could pm me (privately) with the details if you wanted me to look at the specific case and the numbers/averages involved. But, I tend to agree, it's not that important in the end.

I'm sure there's some truth to what HAMMER is saying, but I know some people use GTZ specifically to manage their lists of games/collection.
Admiral
Silver Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7) Has Written 1 Review
30-Nov(#9)
My list has zero games on it. I own about 1000 titles. I'd say it's out of date.

As for sending offers and not getting replies, just file that under the "no thanks" response category and move on.

I'd say more often than not, the other trader has either forgotten about it or is thinking about the offer...and simply never replies because it's not a top priority. Nothing personal I'm sure.

Topic   traders just sitting on offers