VideoGame_Discussion

Topic   Xbox Series X/S Discussion Thread Microsoft Xbox One

bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
18-Jul(#1)
This topic had many older posts which were moved here:

http://gametz.com/VideoGame_Discussion/xbox-series...


Might as well get it started. Who's looking forward to it? I personally think that it could beat PS5, that is if they don't screw up. They need a basic UI, more first party titles, and focus only on gaming. They own the license to Rare games, we need to see new Conkers, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, etc. They did alright with Killer Instinct, I'll give them that, but they're sitting on a lot of games that needs remade, remastered, and sequels.
As far as I know, it's slightly more powerful than the PS5, which isn't a big deal. But what is a big deal is that it will come with more storage. XBSX will have 1TB, which I admit, is not much by today's standards. The PS5 will have 825GB, which is ridiculous. I'm guessing that the next gen games will be around 100gb or more in size on average. If that is the case, I expect the discs will be on 4k UHD blu-rays.
Anxiouz
900 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 10-Sep(#2)
Think this is real?

image
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#3)
Anxiouz wrote:
> Think this is real?
>

100% real.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#4)
Finn wrote:
> bluemetal04 wrote:
>> @dustin11 Wouldn't the lack of online subscriptions, massive game deals, and newly
>> released games being (possibly) $10 cheaper than next gen console games on average,
>> make up for the costs?
>
> I would say so, the money you could save alone on Steam sales is amazing! Personally
> with all the next gen Xbox games going to PC right away I don't see the point in
> buying a console .. I would rather have a capable PC you get all those plus games
> you can't get on console! That's what I will be doing at some point.... I can play
> the few Xbox games I want plus my massive steam library... Well and a rapidly growing
> Epic game store one also....
>
>
>
>
>
>

All part of MS's plan, they're getting you to buy into their ecosystem without having to lose money selling you a console. Also why options are good so people can game how they want and where they want all while staying in their ecosystem.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Sep(#5)
Slickriven wrote:

>
> We can agree to disagree, that's fine. I am pretty sure that at one point Phil Spenser
> said that they had enough data to suggest that X1 owners were using 1440p monitors
> to justify pushing for support of the format. Also a 50" screen could be a better
> option, but a $250-400 4k set isn't going to necessarily have a great picture, especially
> for gaming.
>
> Some households don't even own a traditional TV, they don't watch content, so they
> rely on monitors. Part of me would love to have a 100"+ setup and projector, but
> I don't currently have the room and I live in a decent sized home. If I lived it
> a tight apartment in a city then even a 50" TV might simply be too large. I think
> it comes down to preference, with the 150" setup you have you certainly enjoy the
> space to game in a more spacious and relaxed room. I prefer to game on my 65" OLED
> and sit ~10+ feet away too, but if my wife is on the TV, I will go to my office and
> game on a 1440p monitor and only be 2.5' away.
>
> - Edit: I used to stream my X1 to my PC and game on a 1440p monitor before I got
> my X1X. Once I got my X1X, then I had 2 X1 consoles for a while, so if she was on
> the main TV I would instead go to our den and use my older X1 on a 1080p 43" set
> - I didn't really noticed a huge difference btwn the 27" and 43".

I mean all this bullcrap we're going back and forth on is really we disagree on how many people use their console on a monitor. I think it's not much at all, you think it's a lot more. No real way to tell I guess. Other than that i think we're pretty much on board with everything else.

I am a huge proponent of do what works best for you. I had a big game room that I turned into a home theater that fit a 150" screen. It's fun as hell especially for Switch games like Mario Kart where each person basically gets their own 75" screen to play on. But if 27" or 43" works for you or 65" OLED which will have an amazing picture then ya of course rock n roll. Full disclosure I sit about 12' away and I love the screen size, you really get sucked in and feel like you're there.

Just want that Series X at my house already.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#6)
Yeah I'm definitely getting that Series X. I hope preorders aren't sold out before I can get one.
Finn
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
10-Sep(#7)
dustin11 wrote:
> Finn wrote:
>> bluemetal04 wrote:
> |>> @dustin11 Wouldn't the lack of online subscriptions, massive game deals, and
> newly
> |>> released games being (possibly) $10 cheaper than next gen console games on average,
> |>> make up for the costs?
>>
>> I would say so, the money you could save alone on Steam sales is amazing! Personally
>> with all the next gen Xbox games going to PC right away I don't see the point
> in
>> buying a console .. I would rather have a capable PC you get all those plus games
>> you can't get on console! That's what I will be doing at some point.... I can
> play
>> the few Xbox games I want plus my massive steam library... Well and a rapidly
> growing
>> Epic game store one also....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> All part of MS's plan, they're getting you to buy into their ecosystem without having
> to lose money selling you a console. Also why options are good so people can game
> how they want and where they want all while staying in their ecosystem.


I agree, it is smart.... It's also a more efficient way of spending my money.. I will use the PC fat more then the Series S or X and have a broader range of games play with minimal money going to MS, though it maybe money that I otherwise May not have spent this gen. So, very good on them.


Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
10-Sep(#8)
@longhornsk57 Agree that having a 150" setup would be awesome. I am working on refinishing my basement and once I do (it's taking forever) I want to get another place setup to game down there, I already am setup for a big screen TV mount. I'm thinking I'll stick with a 65-70" TV screen but who knows, maybe I will go projector... in the mean time I'm sometimes pushed to using that 27" or 43" and while I don't prefer it, I can live with it.

I'm also on board with seeking out a SerX. I've got an X1X that I'll keep for a good while (likely indefinitely), then go for the SerX. The SerS doesn't really appeal to me at all - my bigger concern is that while 90% of my purchased X1 library is digital, I still want to have the option to insert a disk, so I need that optical drive. I think the big negative for that is those folks who own physical media for the Microsoft Xbox, Microsoft Xbox 360 and even Microsoft Xbox One - how do they play those games on the SerS? - Semi-rhetorical as I'm sure MS will say that 99 or 100% of the back-compat library is available digitally, but that's not completely true since many games, even from the X1 have left the store - you can't buy Forza Horizon 2 and soon Horizon 3 digitally anymore.

dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#9)
I'm keeping my X1X also because I keep all my old consoles. I still have the same SNES and Genesis I used to game on when I 9 or 10 years old. Its also the Scorpio edition so I don't want to give it up. When I bought an X1S I wanted the optical drive to play movies I rent from Netflix but that won't be the case this time around because the last time I rented a movie from Netflix was over 2 years ago, so I think having a digital only as my media playing Xbox is not an issue for me.
Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
10-Sep(#10)
Yeah I'm with you @dustin11 I generally keep old consoles. I know LongHorn is getting rid of his X1X and that's perfectly valid too. I actually got rid of my original X1 recently since I have the X1X and wanted a PS4, so it worked out. Plus with the SerX coming, I knew I didn't really need 3 consoles capable of playing 95% of the gaming library from the OG xbox til mid/late next year.

dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#11)
My current gen Xbox collection as of now is: OG X1 (Day One edition), 1S, 1X, and a sealed 1X Cyber Punk edition. I only play games on one of them though. The OG is put away, and the 1S is streaming movies only.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Sep(#12)
Slickriven wrote:
> @longhornsk57 Agree that having a 150" setup would be awesome. I am working on refinishing
> my basement and once I do (it's taking forever) I want to get another place setup
> to game down there, I already am setup for a big screen TV mount. I'm thinking I'll
> stick with a 65-70" TV screen but who knows, maybe I will go projector... in the
> mean time I'm sometimes pushed to using that 27" or 43" and while I don't prefer
> it, I can live with it.
>
> I'm also on board with seeking out a SerX. I've got an X1X that I'll keep for a good
> while (likely indefinitely), then go for the SerX. The SerS doesn't really appeal
> to me at all - my bigger concern is that while 90% of my purchased X1 library is
> digital, I still want to have the option to insert a disk, so I need that optical
> drive. I think the big negative for that is those folks who own physical media for
> the Microsoft Xbox, Microsoft Xbox 360 and even Microsoft Xbox One - how do they play those games on the SerS? -
> Semi-rhetorical as I'm sure MS will say that 99 or 100% of the back-compat library
> is available digitally, but that's not completely true since many games, even from
> the X1 have left the store - you can't buy Forza Horizon 2 and soon Horizon 3 digitally
> anymore.
>
>

Ya bro with you all the way my man.

I keep all my retro consoles up to my PS3 (which is BC for PS2 and PS1). No need to keep the X1X or PS4 though they will just take up room. But I am super excited about that Series X. Although I am getting a PS5 I suspect this will be my main rig for 3rd party games since it's got that POWER.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#13)
I made some shelving for all my consoles to display them better. Off the top of my head I have:

NES
SNES
Genesis model 1 and 2
Saturn
PS1 and PSx
N64
Dreamcast
PS2 phat
OG Xbox (two of them)
GCN
Xbox 360 (x2)
Wii
Wii U
Xbox One (x4)
Switch.

Just a few handhelds
GBA (x2)
DS
3DS
PSP
Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
10-Sep(#14)
^ Once I get my basement done and setup for a dedicated 2nd gaming space I want to do something similar. I won't list my collection, but it's similar to yours. I will certainly have my mini consoles displayed, largely b/c I've got my PS1 mini modded and able to play just about anything from it's generation on back. Right now my ~10+ older consoles are all stashed in a cabinet, then I've got 4 hooked up to a TV.

longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
10-Sep(#15)
@dustin11

That's awesome bro. Do you have any pics cuz that sounds like a sweet setup!

I made some shelves and even hooked up all my retro consoles so they display and all play via an RCA switch. I'll have to take a pic to show but it's go these ones:

NES
SNES
N64
Genesis
Atari 2600 (RCA modded myself)
Dreamcast
Gamecube
original Gameboy DMG01
VirtualBoy
PS3 Phat
Wii U

All hooked up all working, then of course my Switch, Xbox One X, and PS4 Pro as well as my PSVR. The Xbox One X and PS4 Pro are also switch hooked up to my theater room via a 30' fiber optic HDMI cable that goes thru the wall so I can play in there.

The PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will be replaced soon but everything else is going to stay like it is, until a new PSVR2 comes out then I can phase that out as well.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
10-Sep(#16)
I have some pictures somewhere that I'll post when I can find them. I also arranged my games and alphabetized them so it doesn't look all unorganized.I built my shelving to accommodate a bit more expansion as I don't plan on buying a ton more games to fill the empty spaces. I think I can hold like 50-100 more dvd cases or compact further to get another 50 if needed and that should be enough.
bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#17)
That's better than my setup. I just have NES, SNES, GEN/32x, N64, PS2, 360 and a SEARS branded Atari 2600 surrounding a big CRT TV. I probably should get one of those RCA switches, since I just keep switching the cables.
bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#18)
Just saw an article about the Series S. Looks like it's unable to play One X enhanced games.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#19)
That's only speculation from digital foundry. They're thinking you may not get the 4k assets of enhanced games because the S has less Ram. You would still get frame rate benifits though at a minimum. I'm sure Ms has already considered this and it's part of what the BC team has been working on for the past few years.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#20)
longhornsk57 wrote:
> @dustin11
>
> That's awesome bro. Do you have any pics cuz that sounds like a sweet setup!
>
> I made some shelves and even hooked up all my retro consoles so they display and
> all play via an RCA switch. I'll have to take a pic to show but it's go these ones:
>
> NES
> SNES
> N64
> Genesis
> Atari 2600 (RCA modded myself)
> Dreamcast
> Gamecube
> original Gameboy DMG01
> VirtualBoy
> PS3 Phat
> Wii U
>
> All hooked up all working, then of course my Switch, Xbox One X, and PS4 Pro as well
> as my PSVR. The Xbox One X and PS4 Pro are also switch hooked up to my theater room
> via a 30' fiber optic HDMI cable that goes thru the wall so I can play in there.
>
> The PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will be replaced soon but everything else is going to
> stay like it is, until a new PSVR2 comes out then I can phase that out as well.

Here's a picture of my game setup. It may chang a bit though because my room is in the middle of a remodel.

image
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#21)
Maybe,

I am seeing more and more concerns about the Series S having 30 FPS on ACV game and other concerns about the gimped GPU and low RAM affecting more than just being in 1440p vs 2160p. I would really stay away from the Series S and just pony up for the real thing.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#22)
Wow that looks freaking awesome!

I am going to take a pic of mine but that's a real clean set-up I really like it
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#23)
I think there are numerous games running 120 on the S like Gears 5 and Dirt, ACV wouldn't surprise me though because that dev isn't too great with hardware and seems to care about pushing higher resolution over frames. Right now they've only confirmed the X being 4k 60 and it wouldn't surprise if even the PS5 has to sacrifise frames for resolution or have some sort of "performance mode" option since it's CPU is clocked slower than the Series S.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#24)
I don't think they care about a few hz on the CPU, it's more about the Series S having half a GPU and almost half the RAM. The PS5 should be fine.

I don't disagree with you though on development, I only say I thought the S was supposed to scale for frame-rate and just run 1080p instead but I would be very wary of 3rd party games not running at locked 60FPS, but dipping lower.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#25)
I'm taking more of a wait and see approach because these last few months there have been waaay too much articles about false reports with what these consoles apparently can't do about them being really weak. It wasn't long ago that people were saying the Series X can't run ACV higher than 30fps and the PS5 running Dirt 5 at 60fps, both of which turned out to be false. Until I see a real breakdown from a dev making a game on the hardware and explaining why their game is X resolution at X frames then I'm not really trusting any of it because so far all I've seen is speculation from people developing anything for it.

With that said, we're less than 2 months out from launch and we have seen nothing running on these consoles other than R&C, Gears 5, and some smaller indies. I think its times we start seeing some next gen games running on these newer consoles so we can see what they are really capable of.
SwiftJAB
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#26)
The lower RAM in the Series S shouldn't be of too much concern if the Velocity architecture is able to achieve the performance that they're speculating. The argument for 4k is a moot point because that's not what the Series S is trying to achieve. Based upon what I've seen, there will be plenty of people that will be happy with the XSS.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#27)
It can upscale to 4k anyhow or use MS's own version of DLSS 2.0 to checkerboard so I don't see it being that big of a deal. Forza Horizon 4 is getting a day one patch for the Series S which will allow it to run better than it did on the X1X so I think a lot of this concern is overblow at the moment.
Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
11-Sep(#28)
It'll be hard to believe that the SS can't run a game like Gears5 or Horizon4 better than the 1X. And since I'm sure it can that should make it impressive since playing H4 on my OLED has been a beautiful experience.

longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#29)
I'm sure it will run some of those games slightly better than the X in some respects, but it's not going to be running games in 4K. If you have an OLED you'd be insane to get a Series S.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#30)
Yeah, to think that the Series S will run any game at 4K would be crazy because its straight up not powerful enough. I think there were only a handful of games for the X1X that ran native 4K, the rest had a resolution that would jump around quite a bit or you had to play on quality mode and then the frames would drop to 30. I think there was only 1 game that ran locked native 4k at a locked 60, that was Forza 7. I think the Series S is more of a 1080p 120fps machine, 1440p maybe on some smaller games and 1080p 60 for open world. If theres a lazy dev then all bets are off.
Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
11-Sep(#31)
Agree, I have zero interest in the SS, similar to my lack of interest in the current S. It's targetted at a segment of gamers that I'm not a part of. However, I think it's smart they've made it as it'll undercut the disk-less PS5 on price by at least $100 (likely $140+) and to many gamers and parents price will be a strong deciding factor, thus I expect it to sell really well.

I can see parents buying it for themselves to play Madden some evenings and to have for their kids, since many kids don't really notice/care about 1440p vs. 4k - saving $140+ vs. the PS5, with the ability to have GamePass and 'get' 100+ games for $15/month isn't something I can see Sony really being able to compete with. Sony will need to rely on their exclusives and brand loyalty and I don't see them winning this next generation like they did with the PS4. Not saying MS wins either, just that the SS brings a different factor into the 'fight' for supremacy.

TalonJedi87
Double Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
11-Sep(#32)
It's admirable of MS catering to every level of the market but to me I'm just going all in with Series X next year. I want the full extent that next gen has to offer at said given time, none of this in between crap. Series S. Series V. Series X or bust for me.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#33)
I think it's pretty stupid. Undercut the PS5 discless by $100 but get half the performance.

If I was a consumer I'd spend $100 more for an actual "next gen" all digital box any day.
SwiftJAB
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#34)
You are a consumer, haha.

The XSS will sell in the millions to tens of millions and get people hooked on GPU, creating the long term subscription market they're really after. Their $24.99/mo for 24mo to get the system and GPU is also another genius move, especially in times where unemployment is high.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#35)
I don't necessarily agree with that, but I guess we'll see. I feel like PS5 sales are going to murder Xbox again this generation. Whether MS makes more money off GPU and all that is another debate, but raw sales I feel like will heavily lean PS5
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#36)
We've still not seen Sony release a price on the PS5 but if rumors of that thing having a build price of $500 are true then I don't think they'll release either of them at $400. Its being reported that MS is losing money on the XSS being $300 and thats with half the SSD and less than 1/2 the GPU as the PS5 digital. My guess is $500 and $450 with Sony still taking a small loss on every console.

The average consumer isn't going to be up to date on console specs and they won't care that one can do 1440p while the other does 2160p, they won't even know what that means, they'll just see one is $150 cheaper than the other and they'll both play CoD and Madden.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 11-Sep(#37)
MS has confirmed enhancements on the XSS:

"Xbox Series S was designed to be the most affordable next generation console and play next generation games at 1440P at 60fps. To deliver the highest quality backwards compatible experience consistent with the developer's original intent, the Xbox Series S runs the Xbox One S version of backward compatible games while applying improved texture filtering, higher and more consistent frame rates, faster load times and Auto HDR."

Its pretty much as I figured. No X1X enhanced (more specific no 4k since the console doesn't do 4k) but they'll get their own enhancements which is in between the S and X with its own set of features that the BC team made specifically for this console.
Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
11-Sep(#38)
@longhornsk57 It seems like you have enough 'disposable' income to drop on the SX and PS5 and that's awesome. You prioritize your gaming hobby and are capable of likely spending $500 on the SX and $500 on the PS5 (trading/selling older consoles to fund that decision not withstanding).

But know that lots of families and gamers don't have $500 to spend, let alone $1k to get both - nor would they necessarily choose to spend their $$ on console gaming. Unemployment is still higher thanks to 2020 sucking. I can see some families, where 1 parent maybe lost a job, or is working part-time or in a new, much lower income position, maybe has a few kids and they decide to 'save' $200 by buying the less powerful SS vs. SX. It is a reasonable option. Similar with the decision to save $100+ vs. the PS5d.

So I think it's smart and it doesn't adversely affect consumers like you and me that can afford and prioritize buying the more powerful SX. Like dustin11 said, I'll wait to fully comment on the performance of the 3-4 different models until they've fully launched. As such I don't agree that your 'half the performance' assumption is anything more than an assumption that won't really be resolved until late next year after more devs can better exploit the distinct traits of each architecture and hardware offering.

longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
11-Sep(#39)
I just think they wouldn't mind dropping $400 instead of $300 for a console that is twice as powerful and has better games.

Consoles are 1st world things to buy anyways, nobody who is starving is buying xbox and playstation.
Slickriven
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Has Written 1 Review This user is on the site NOW (41 seconds ago)
11-Sep(#40)
I can agree that yes, starving folks aren't necessarily looking at either console. But the $100 difference is an estimation currently (I think it'll likely be more like $150) and the double performance is pure speculation at the very least until DF can test the systems. I do feel that your average consumer who's trying to buy the next system for their kids or grand kids, isn't going to know what a Terra-flop is or be fully aware of which system is more powerful. So marketing should be a factor. Exclusives and loyalty ought to come into play. GP is also something that could catch mom/dad/granny's attention as well.

Better games is also opinion - not that I'm disagreeing, Sony has had the clear advantage on exclusives really for the past several generations, MS is improving there.

dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#41)
Probably around 80% of gamers are casuals who won't care about the higher TF numbers or what console has which exclusives, they'll be buying to play CoD, Madden, FIFA, 2K, and Fortnite with their friends. People who buy either a PS or Xbox just for the exclusives are in the extreme minority as NPD has proven (18/20 of the best selling games on both consoles combined are multiplat), so if someone can play those multiplat games with the friends for $150 less then that will be a very attractive proposition to most gamers. This discussion that we're having is very different than what the average gamer even cares about anyhow.

Also, if someone cares about a 2.25x more powerful GPU so much that they'll spend an extra $150 to get the PS5 DE then why would anyone buy a $500 PS5 when they can spend $500 to get the more powerful XSX? I've been hearing a whole lot of "Power doesn't matter" since the PS5 was released, so if people are actually telling the truth then they'll be all over the XSS.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#42)
Slickriven wrote:
> I can agree that yes, starving folks aren't necessarily looking at either console.
> But the $100 difference is an estimation currently (I think it'll likely be more
> like $150) and the double performance is pure speculation at the very least until
> DF can test the systems. I do feel that your average consumer who's trying to buy
> the next system for their kids or grand kids, isn't going to know what a Terra-flop
> is or be fully aware of which system is more powerful. So marketing should be a factor.
> Exclusives and loyalty ought to come into play. GP is also something that could catch
> mom/dad/granny's attention as well.


Growing up I had to wait until a console has been out for years until I was able to get one. That only changed about 10 years ago so I can definitely relate with the people who this cheaper console is aimed towards. I can very much sympathize that there is a large set of gamers who are not likely to be in the position to throw down this kind of cash for the newer more expensive model to play games on their new 65" 4k TV and the XSS can be a big relief to families who aren't doing to well right now. If I were younger and had this option available as well as game pass, man, that would have been a huge game changer. I remember picking dead grass and cigarette butts out of a gravel parking lot for $1/hr and walking around my neighborhood with a lawn mower trying to find lawns to mow so I could buy used Genesis games when I was younger.
bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#43)
Depending on the tv, upscaled games may look really blurry, at least it does on my TCL. I already tested both 1080p and 1440p upscaled to 4k using several devices, most of them looked horrible. I was actually surprised when some switch games, like Mario maker 2, looked descent upscaled, but all the xbox games i tested, was really blurry. HDR made up for it in some cases though. Really glad that games will now be in Dolby vision, because the XBO only uses that on certain apps, like Netflix, but not with games and 4k blurays, which annoyed me. Anyways, I'm assuming that the flagship TVs, like LG and Samsung, would make the upscales look better.
TalonJedi87
Double Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
11-Sep(#44)
Idk why but my Spidey sense is telling me PS5 is gonna drop a $600 price tag for the disc based PS5. I hope I'm sincerely wrong though.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#45)
I was seeing some stuff today that said the PS5's intent was that they were going to sell the disc version for $600 and the DE for $500 but with what MS released this week (wasn't supposed to be announced until next week, the leaks forced their hand early) Sony is trying to get their console down to $500 and $400. MS can still drop their price if they see fit since their price isn't final yet either. Its also why MS didn't want to announce their price first because they knew PS5 had massive cost overruns and was coming in as a much more expensive machine.
TalonJedi87
Double Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
11-Sep(#46)
Yeah it sure seems that way. The PS5 tech with all that ray tracing and fancy bells and whistles made me think initially that it would be a premium cost more so than people were used to. Then again, wasn't the PS3 like $600 year 1 when it first launched? I recall a shortage of PS3 consoles back in 2006-2007 and the price as astronomical. I remember people selling them on eBay for like 1 grand a pop.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 11-Sep(#47)
It isn't the ray tracing and stuff like that which jumped the costs up. They started work in the PS5 1 year before MS started work on the XSX so Sony's tech is a year older. Their way to compensate for that was over clock the hell out of their GPU all the way to 2.2ghz to get it from 9.2tf to 10.2 (if it leaches power from the CPU). The problem with that is that it caused massive heat issues so their cooling solution ended up costing them significantly more than it normally would have. Then theres the SSD prices which are incredibly high as is their controller with all those haptics and junk. XSX has far better RT tech as well as a significantly better GPU but they kept costs down by designing their console in a simple manor, both from a performance and cost standpoint. A $500 price point is Sony taking a big loss on every console sold to where $500 is MS making money on every console sold.

Yeah the PS3 was $600 but I think they had a $500 option too. They had a launch shortage and couldn't make enough to meet demand. Supposedly the PS5 is going to experience similar issues and this time around, unlike the PS4, they are rumored to not be launching world wide upon its launch date because there simply are not enough consoles to go around.
ErickRPG
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#48)
Very nice @dustin. Very clean looking. Lots of different looking game boxes, love it! I really need to do a major job with mine. Right now I've been cleaning large bookshelves for all the board games I've been buying.

dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
11-Sep(#49)
Yeah I'm glad I managed to keep all that stuff from when I was a kid. Theres a great feeling looking at any of my older consoles and all the memories associated with them. Totally priceless and irreplaceable.
Bleed_DukeBlue
Double Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
11-Sep(#50)
This resonated with me. I remember picking up leaves from yards for 25 cents a bag to save up for an Atari with my sister growing up.

dustin11 wrote:
> Slickriven wrote:
>> I can agree that yes, starving folks aren't necessarily looking at either console.
>> But the $100 difference is an estimation currently (I think it'll likely be more
>> like $150) and the double performance is pure speculation at the very least until
>> DF can test the systems. I do feel that your average consumer who's trying to
> buy
>> the next system for their kids or grand kids, isn't going to know what a Terra-flop
>> is or be fully aware of which system is more powerful. So marketing should be
> a factor.
>> Exclusives and loyalty ought to come into play. GP is also something that could
> catch
>> mom/dad/granny's attention as well.
>
>
> Growing up I had to wait until a console has been out for years until I was able
> to get one. That only changed about 10 years ago so I can definitely relate with
> the people who this cheaper console is aimed towards. I can very much sympathize
> that there is a large set of gamers who are not likely to be in the position to throw
> down this kind of cash for the newer more expensive model to play games on their
> new 65" 4k TV and the XSS can be a big relief to families who aren't doing to well
> right now. If I were younger and had this option available as well as game pass,
> man, that would have been a huge game changer. I remember picking dead grass and
> cigarette butts out of a gravel parking lot for $1/hr and walking around my neighborhood
> with a lawn mower trying to find lawns to mow so I could buy used Genesis games when
> I was younger.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 12-Sep(#51)
Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:
> This resonated with me. I remember picking up leaves from yards for 25 cents a bag
> to save up for an Atari with my sister growing up.
>
> dustin11 wrote:
>> Slickriven wrote:
> |>> I can agree that yes, starving folks aren't necessarily looking at either console.
> |>> But the $100 difference is an estimation currently (I think it'll likely be more
> |>> like $150) and the double performance is pure speculation at the very least until
> |>> DF can test the systems. I do feel that your average consumer who's trying to
>> buy
> |>> the next system for their kids or grand kids, isn't going to know what a Terra-flop
> |>> is or be fully aware of which system is more powerful. So marketing should be
>> a factor.
> |>> Exclusives and loyalty ought to come into play. GP is also something that could
>> catch
> |>> mom/dad/granny's attention as well.
>>
>>
>> Growing up I had to wait until a console has been out for years until I was able
>> to get one. That only changed about 10 years ago so I can definitely relate with
>> the people who this cheaper console is aimed towards. I can very much sympathize
>> that there is a large set of gamers who are not likely to be in the position to
> throw
>> down this kind of cash for the newer more expensive model to play games on their
>> new 65" 4k TV and the XSS can be a big relief to families who aren't doing to
> well
>> right now. If I were younger and had this option available as well as game pass,
>> man, that would have been a huge game changer. I remember picking dead grass and
>> cigarette butts out of a gravel parking lot for $1/hr and walking around my neighborhood
>> with a lawn mower trying to find lawns to mow so I could buy used Genesis games
> when
>> I was younger.

Yeah, the things we used to do to buy games. Now I just jump on Game Pass and see what I want to play next. Things have really changed quiet a bit.
bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Sep(#52)
Is there a reason why the current gen and next gen consoles have been similar prior to launch? Like, are they collaborating to agree on a standard? PS4 and XBO are similar in hardware and, in some cases, software. Seems to be the same with the PS5 and XBSX. The major difference is the exclusives.

I owned the switch twice since it launched, and not planning on getting another one, at least until they fix their online gaming servers, and the UI. Even with those issues, Nintendo is doing something different, which makes me appeal to them more.

It kinda feels like the PS3 and 360 was the last great console war. They was both very different. 360 had better online gaming, so it won for many years. PS3 started out rough, but eventually won the war. It was just a expensive media center at first, but it introduced Blu-Rays to many people, and had advanced hardware that, once developers figured out how to use, could produce games that looked similar to the PS4. When are we going to see something like that happen again?
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Sep(#53)
These two consoles aren't too similar. Their CPU is the same but clocked differently and the GPU isn't too similar either. There is a bunch of software solutions working behind the scenes which are unique to each console which is much different than how consoles of the past used to go head to head. I think why they kind of sort of have similar specs on paper is because of trying to standardize x86 so devs have an easier time developing games for their platform.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#54)
Ya the Xbox has a slightly more powerful GPU and a mix of faster and slower ram. The PS5 has an on paper 2X speed on the SSD.

Hard to tell what performance differences there might be but we'll find out soon enough. They had a couple of different approaches.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Sep(#55)
There is quite a big difference in the GPU. The PS5 has a 9.2tf GPU with 2304 shaders and 36 CU cores vs XSX's 12.2tf, 3328 shaders, and 52 CU cores. MS Split the RAM with 10gb of GDDR6 running at 560gb/sec and 6gb of GRRD6 running at 336gb/sec. 2.5gb of the slower RAM is reserved for the OS and to power the CPU and front end shell work while the rest of the 13.5gb is for games (average of 502gb/sec). The PS5 has 16gb of 448gb/sec RAM but no word on how much is reserved for games. MS's RAM is 320-bit BUS to where PS5's RAM is 256-bit BUS. XSX's GPU is locked at a stable 1.8ghz to where Sony's is variable and can crank up to 2.2GHZ to reach 10.2tf, it can only do that though if it leaches power from the CPU, so it can't run its GPU and CPU at full power at the same time, its a seesaw effect.

The CPU is a bit difference too. The PS5's CPU is 3.5ghz (variable) and 8 core 16 thread, XSX's CPU is 3.8ghz. PS5'S SSD speed is on paper 2x faster than the XSX's but that will turn out to be a battle of if Kraken or Velocity Architecture is a better solution with unpacking the memory.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#56)
Ya I don't buy the whole TF argument. That's such a worthless number on so many levels and often has zero to do with real life.

I mean technically the X1X puts out 1.5X more teraflops than the series S you're telling me it's that much more powerful right?

The SSD may prove to be a deciding factor and the very minute CPU difference could prove to be meaningless.

We won't know until we have them both
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Sep(#57)
TF numbers can be compared when the GPU is the same architecture. On top of that you have a considerable difference in RAM speed, shaders, and CU cores. If a difference of 54gb/sec difference on the GPU isn't a factor then a 2.5gb/sec difference on the SSD system won't be a difference maker either. We know that the Velocity architecture can cache and instantly load up to 100gb of data to where Kraken can't do that, so stuff like that can negate the entire speed difference.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#58)
I'm not sure that's how it works.



As long as it's the same TF test it doesn't matter how it got there, that's why people compare RTX 2080 and Xbox and even 3080 and Switch.

Either the TF matters or it doesn't. As long as you're comparing RDNA to all or GCN to all it's fair game. So if you take it as the end all then the One X is a beast compared to the much weaker Series S.

if you want to take different tech and such then the 2X faster SSD and such become a factor too.

All I'm saying is we'll see. If the Series X is that much faster then of course we'll know in short order, but I'm not convinced it's that meaningful a difference now. Not like the much weaker Series S
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#59)
Also as an aside I just sold my white X1X for $330 so I am all good for my XSX pre-order really looking forward to it

Y'all getting amazon or best buy or what?
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Sep(#60)
Tf cant be compared like for like across different archetectures, DF even did a whole video about it and broke everything down.

Tf differences in next Gen consoles isn't even the main difference, imo. I would say the XSX's faster ram, more CU cores, more shades, faster bus speed and much better SOC is going to be the major difference between the two consoles. SSD isnt going to be a magic bullet to make up for the GPU gap. The only reason why the Sony camp is focusing so much on the SSD like it's some kind of extra processor is because they got caught with their pants down in the specs department. Because of that they are stuck with a weaker console with a higher build cost so they're trying to convince people that an SSD will somehow make up for the considerable power gap.
Bleed_DukeBlue
Double Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
* 12-Sep(#61)
Wow. You did well selling it for $330. Those special editions do pretty well. I sold my white PS4 Pro for about the same amount that I paid for it when I bought my 500 million PS4 Pro. As far as the Series X goes, I'm going direct through the Microsoft Store. I bought $530 worth of Microsoft gift cards at 18% off to save $95.40 and sold my Xbox One X and some 360 games to Lunar for $215. With those two moves, it's basically like I got my X1X for free and then applied all that toward the Series X.

longhornsk57 wrote:
> Also as an aside I just sold my white X1X for $330 so I am all good for my XSX pre-order
> really looking forward to it
>
> Y'all getting amazon or best buy or what?
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#62)
That's amazing.

If you have a tip on that discounted MS cash lemme know, I'd be down to buy it direct.
bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 12-Sep(#63)
Really wish they sold a series s with a 4k blu-ray drive. That's what I mainly use on the one s. Been collecting a lot of physical media, especially 4k blu-rays. 90's movie rental stores is my spirit animal.
Anxiouz
900 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#64)
bluemetal04 wrote:
> Is there a reason why the current gen and next gen consoles have been similar prior
> to launch? Like, are they collaborating to agree on a standard? PS4 and XBO are
> similar in hardware and, in some cases, software. Seems to be the same with the
> PS5 and XBSX. The major difference is the exclusives.

Games feel/look similarities mostly because studios are using the same tools to expedite development like the Unreal engine, Unity, etc. instead of building their own stuff from scratch.
Barnolde
Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#65)
bluemetal04 wrote:
> Really wish they sold a series s with a 4k blu-ray drive. That's what I mainly use
> on the one s. Been collecting a lot of physical media, especially 4k blu-rays. 90's
> movie rental stores is my spirit animal.

They know most will spring for the Series X for just that reason. The Series S is the new 360 Core pack. Entry level AKA everyone posting on here doesn't want it. Go big or go home.

Physical media is the best especially since streaming services keep losing stuff constantly. And 4K disc quality is unmatched.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
12-Sep(#66)
Ya streaming"4K" looks worse than 1080p Blu-ray to me
ErickRPG
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
12-Sep(#67)
dustin11 wrote:
> Yeah I'm glad I managed to keep all that stuff from when I was a kid. Theres a great
> feeling looking at any of my older consoles and all the memories associated with
> them. Totally priceless and irreplaceable.

The oldest stuff I have is my game boy micro and a handful of gba games super mint that I used to shop at fry's electronics. So at least I have that. But yeah definite nostalgia if I had kept my N64 and SNES stuff.

TalonJedi87
Double Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews This user is on the site NOW (8 minutes ago)
12-Sep(#68)
I too have been on a 4k collecting spree with physical discs. You just cannot top the disc vs digital streaming, I'm sorry. The quality is a night and day comparison to me. Discs have no buffering. No lag. No stutter. And one of the latest 4k transfers I watched on bluray, Jaws, was absolutely mind blowing in Dolby Vision for a 45 year old movie. Might have also helped that I was watching it on the Panny UB820 player. That machine is all kinds of magic.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Sep(#69)
Heres a little bit of Geras 5 running on the Series S. Youtube only goes up to 60fps but this is all running in 120fps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHJdpdDAGUA

Does not look too bad at all for a ~$300 console.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
14-Sep(#70)
Ya I want to see some actual games that are not last gen doing that before I start sucking my that particular dick.

That limited and slowww RAM and weak GPU still scares me for how long they expect to do that with more intensive and expansive games that aren't just last gen refreshes. I mean that's cool that it's RDNA 2 and SSD but it's still bottle-necked
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Sep(#71)
The GPU is still 4x more powerful than the X1S and inline with the X1X's, so even it if does 1080p @60-120 on next gen games then that will be a win IMO.
bluemetal04
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Sep(#72)
As long as you don't plan on upgrading to a 4K TV/monitor. Because if you do, you'll just be disappointed.
Finn
GameTZ Subscriber Quadruple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Canada
14-Sep(#73)
dustin11 wrote:
> We've still not seen Sony release a price on the PS5 but if rumors of that thing
> having a build price of $500 are true then I don't think they'll release either of
> them at $400. Its being reported that MS is losing money on the XSS being $300 and
> thats with half the SSD and less than 1/2 the GPU as the PS5 digital. My guess is
> $500 and $450 with Sony still taking a small loss on every console.
>
> The average consumer isn't going to be up to date on console specs and they won't
> care that one can do 1440p while the other does 2160p, they won't even know what
> that means, they'll just see one is $150 cheaper than the other and they'll both
> play CoD and Madden.



Sony has mentioned in the past that they would leverage PS4 sales to off set loosing money on the PS5 console. So they could very well sell for a loss. Sony is fantastic at supporting consoles near end of life and into the life of the next generation.



dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Sep(#74)
the type of person who this console is aimed towards probably won't care. If they cared about graphics then they would probably opt for the X in the first place.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
14-Sep(#75)
dustin11 wrote:
> The GPU is still 4x more powerful than the X1S and inline with the X1X's, so even
> it if does 1080p @60-120 on next gen games then that will be a win IMO.

I don't see the XSS or the X1X doing 120 FPS even at 1080p on later generation games unless developers really bring their work down. Gears 5 is one thing, but I am talking about games like GTA6, RDR3, and such. And you can forget about ray tracing at probably even 60FPS with 4TF.

I am just glad that Sony doesn't have a low end version that they ahve to use as a base to meet so they don't have to gimp their games.

Don't forget that the X1S isn't even as powerful as a base PS4 that came out in 2013 so saying that something is 4X more powerful than a 7 year old GPU isn't really saying crap.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Sep(#76)
Finn wrote:
> dustin11 wrote:
>> We've still not seen Sony release a price on the PS5 but if rumors of that thing
>> having a build price of $500 are true then I don't think they'll release either
> of
>> them at $400. Its being reported that MS is losing money on the XSS being $300
> and
>> thats with half the SSD and less than 1/2 the GPU as the PS5 digital. My guess
> is
>> $500 and $450 with Sony still taking a small loss on every console.
>>
>> The average consumer isn't going to be up to date on console specs and they won't
>> care that one can do 1440p while the other does 2160p, they won't even know what
>> that means, they'll just see one is $150 cheaper than the other and they'll both
>> play CoD and Madden.
>
>
>
> Sony has mentioned in the past that they would leverage PS4 sales to off set loosing
> money on the PS5 console. So they could very well sell for a loss. Sony is fantastic
> at supporting consoles near end of life and into the life of the next generation.
>
>
>
>
>

That was when they were going to originally sell the PS5 for a much smaller loss at $600. At $500 and $400 they would be selling for up something like a $150 loss per console. Not sure what their margin is with PS4 right now but the offset could be really difficult to do if they needed to sell 3 PS4s to offset 1 PS5
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
14-Sep(#77)
longhornsk57 wrote:
> dustin11 wrote:
>> The GPU is still 4x more powerful than the X1S and inline with the X1X's, so even
>> it if does 1080p @60-120 on next gen games then that will be a win IMO.
>
> I don't see the XSS or the X1X doing 120 FPS even at 1080p on later generation games
> unless developers really bring their work down. Gears 5 is one thing, but I am talking
> about games like GTA6, RDR3, and such. And you can forget about ray tracing at probably
> even 60FPS with 4TF.
>
> I am just glad that Sony doesn't have a low end version that they ahve to use as
> a base to meet so they don't have to gimp their games.
>
> Don't forget that the X1S isn't even as powerful as a base PS4 that came out in 2013
> so saying that something is 4X more powerful than a 7 year old GPU isn't really saying
> crap.

Its about the same power as the X1X but with a 4x more powerful processor. If that can do RDR2 at 4k 30 then I would imagine that the same-ish GPU with a significantly better CPU and better software implementations can probably do a newer version of that game in at least 1080 60. The "up to 120fps" is mostly going to be reserved for much less demanding games and I would expect 60 to be main frame rate. Won't really know until we see more next gen stuff running on it though.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
14-Sep(#78)
dustin11 wrote:

>
> Its about the same power as the X1X but with a 4x more powerful processor. If that
> can do RDR2 at 4k 30 then I would imagine that the same-ish GPU with a significantly
> better CPU and better software implementations can probably do a newer version of
> that game in at least 1080 60. The "up to 120fps" is mostly going to be reserved
> for much less demanding games and I would expect 60 to be main frame rate. Won't
> really know until we see more next gen stuff running on it though.

I mean I just have my doubts that something pushing 4TF is going to do that.

You can put a GTX 970 in a computer with 4000 series Ryzen and it won't push 120 FPS. The slow ram and gimped GPU is going to bottleneck it, I don't care what processor it has.

Don't get me wrong, it's going to look nice and probably play gears 6 with nice spec but developers who don't want to spend time scaling it perfectly are not going to have games running smoothly on it. Sort of like Control running great on my X1X and Pro but running like hsit on the base PS4 and X1.

You have to have things perfectly scaled and optimized to get that kind of performance. Even if i had a 1080p display I'd get the X just to ensure performance.
dustin11
Double Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 14-Sep(#79)
Devs have a lot of practice programming to various setups on the PC side with all those various configurations, so it shouldn't be anything new to them. I think part of the problem with the base consoles is that they were under powered even when they first launched 7 years ago. It was totally stupid for both MS and Sony to put that jaguar processor in there.

But yeah, I have no interest in the S. If I were like 13 or something then I don't think I would really care.
longhornsk57
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader
* 14-Sep(#80)
dustin11 wrote:
> Devs have a lot of practice programming to various setups on the PC side with all
> those various configurations, so it shouldn't be anything new to them. I think part
> of the problem with the base consoles is that they were under powered even when they
> first launched 7 years ago. It was totally stupid for both MS and Sony to put that
> jaguar processor in there.

It's not new, but they very very often ignore the low spec system. A lot of games had issues running on base systems for the last few years, and sure as fudge weren't hitting 60 FPS and usually not even 30 FPS.

So now we've got games with even better graphics, more open world elements, farther draw distances, and a little ray tracing running on a GPU on par with or possibly not as good as the X1X, and developers are already programming for the XSX/PS5 ecosystems and PC, and you're asking them to spend even more time on a single underpowered console to try to hit 1080p120 or even 60, I mean I don't know how many are going to do that.

With last gen at least they did it for a base PS4 and a base X1, now there is no "base PS5" - time will tell and I hope you're right, but something tells me we're going to be seeing these rant articles about the X1S skipping frames and downscaling games to 900p to keep up performance.

Topic   Xbox Series X/S Discussion Thread Microsoft Xbox One