Old thread was archived due to the year+ without any MCU content, so here's a new one. With WandaVision wrapped up, this is now just a ranking of all the primary MCU projects in general. Plus my list changed drastically as I've re-watched certain movies over the past year and wanted to update it.
37. The Incredible Hulk (Phase I) - My Rating: 6.5/10
36. Iron Man 3 (Phase II) - My Rating: 7/10
35. Thor: The Dark World (Phase II) - My Rating: 7/10
34. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (Phase V) - My Rating: 7/10
33. Hawkeye (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7/10
32. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7/10
31. Black Widow (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7/10
30. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (Phase IV) - 7.5/10
29. Moon Knight (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7.5/10
28. Ant-Man and The Wasp (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10
27. Doctor Strange (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10
26. Captain Marvel (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10
25. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7.5/10
24. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (Phase II) - My Rating: 7.5/10
23. Thor: Love and Thunder (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7.5/10
22. Captain America: Civil War (Phase III) - My Rating: 8/10
21. Black Panther (Phase III) - My Rating: 8/10
20. Captain America: The First Avenger (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10
19. Loki (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8/10
18. Thor (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10
17. Ms. Marvel (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8/10
16. Ant-Man (Phase II) - My Rating: 8/10
15. The Avengers (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10
14. Guardians of the Galaxy (Phase II) - My Rating: 8.5/10
13. Spider-man: No Way Home (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10
12. Spider-man: Homecoming (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10
11. Spider-man: Far From Home (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10
10. Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10
9. Avengers: Endgame (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10
8. WandaVision (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10
7. Avengers: Infinity War (Phase III) - My Rating: 9/10
6. Iron Man (Phase I) - My Rating: 9/10
5. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (Phase IV) - 9/10
4. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (Phase V) - My Rating: 9.5/10
3. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Phase II) - My Rating: 9.5/10
2. Thor: Ragnarok (Phase III) - My Rating: 9.5/10
1. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (Phase III) - My Rating: 9.5/10
Original Rankings Post with Short Reviews:
35. The Eternals (Phase IV) - My Rating: 5/10 Review: Mega disjointed story, fudging TERRIBLE CG, and a final act that reminds me of the worst Fox X-Men movies. There were some awesome concepts here, some pretty cool characters, and great actors.... but I can't even find the right words to really break this one down. It was just bad.
34. Iron Man 2 (Phase I) - My Rating: 5.5/10 Review: No longer "easily" the weakest movie of the MCU, but certainly one that I don't really like enough to ever feel like re-watching. Mickey Rourke's villain was waaay under-developed and, whie I love the actor, Sam Rockwell's villain was the poor man's Obidiah Stane. Also, I love Don Cheadle as War Machine, but you can't help but kind of feel like Terrence Howard would have played the role more naturally in this one. Black Widow was wasted here too, came off as a real flat "henchman" type character. The only real redeeming qualities were Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark/Iron Man once again. I did enjoy how they touched on Stark's alcoholic past from the comics in an updated way. That brief moment at the end where Iron Man and War Machine team up against the robots was neat too, even while still being the least memorable "showdown" of the entire MCU.
33. The Incredible Hulk (Phase I) - My Rating: 7/10 Review: I seem to enjoy this one a lot more than the casual viewers but I can totally get where people are coming from. Edward Norton just didn't fit as Bruce Banner for me too much, definitely not the way Mark Ruffalo does now. He did well with the part, but it really just seemed like Edward Norton playing Edward Norton. Liv Tyler is a little "meh" in just about everything, too. The villains made this movie for me though, with Tim Roth's super-soldier-turned-Abomination standing out big time, along with General Ross for most of the movie. I loved that chase scene in Brazil, as well as the big showdown between the Hulk and the soldiers in the field. However, the CGI for both the Hulk and the Abomination teetered on the not-impressive side in my opinion, and it really showed during the climactic end battle. I thought it was kind of cool, but the movie had potential to have more than just a "loud, bang up" fight ending that was more-or-less just a rehash of Iron Man's climax. I did like that "Hulk smash" part though.
32. Iron Man 3 (Phase II) - My Rating: 7/10 Review: This was originally a 6/10 and the second-to-last movie on my list. When I initially ranked it, I had only seen it once in the theaters. The "Trevor Slattery" twist left an awful taste in my mouth and that hampered my initial opinion. Watching it for the second time definitely softened my opinion. That "fake Mandarin" twist is still fudging awful, as is the "Batman Forever Jim Carrey/Riddler" arc of the primary villain (which was also revisited with Electro in Amazing Spider-man 2), but otherwise there is a good movie surrounding those. A much more mature tone with MANY jokes that aren't suitable for kids, lots of language that doesn't exist in the MCU other than this movie (calls a kid a pussy for crying out loud), and a real "James Bond" plot that sees Tony need to become the MCU equivalent to a 007 during a stretch where he doesn't have an Iron Man suit. The ending was also badass, with the multi-suit extravaganza - even if Age of Ultron nullified that bit entirely. Not as bad as I originally pegged it but still lower-tier for sure.
31. Thor: The Dark World (Phase II) - My Rating: 7/10 Review: I love Thor, the character, and have since I was a young kid getting the "Journey Into Mystery" Marvel Masterworks hardcover from my dad. It may be that bias that causes me to enjoy the Thor movies over some more popular MCU movies, but oh well. I dug this one, with my only real complaint mirroring that of many - that the villain Maliketh, much like the Red Skull, seemed to be evil just for the sake of being evil. There was some backstory about how Odin wronged the Dark Elves, but it's really just skimmed over and no reasons are really given. Otherwise, I thought the cast did a fine job. People like to bicker about "too much Natalie Portman" in these movies, or too much time spent on Earth in general, but they seem to forget that both these aspects were huge to the early (most memorable) Thor comic books. Thor's essence was more-or-less trapped in a human doctor named Don, who had to tap his walking stick to turn into Thor, and he clamored over Jane Foster in just about every issue. So seeing Thor interact with Jane and her friends is fine in my opinion, it's something that the character has been doing since his creation. I loved the ending too, the glimpses into all the other realms was great and the final showdown was awesome. But when it comes to stark colored lulls in some of these superhero movies, unfortunately my man Thor falls real guilty at times here. Some scenes are actually kind of boring. And that faux-hand chopping scene seemed extremely rushed, as if they forgot to cram a bunch of character moments between Thor and Loki into the movie and had to do it all in one go. Still have a soft spot for this one, though - all the otherworldly tech and vehicles rule.
30. Hawkeye (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7/10 Review: This was good and, considering I find Hawkeye to be super uninteresting, probably better than I expected. I dug Kate Bishop, I dug Hawkeye way more than I ever have, I dug the pizza dog. Yelena was cool as always, even if some of the comedy schtick got a bit tired. Echo was just badass enough to make me interested in her Disney+ show. I love this show for bringing Kingpin into the MCU, and then I hate it for sort of cartooning him up too hard. He was great in Daredevil, and the performance is still there, but his immunity to pain was such a strange touch. He was always strong and could take a beating, but he wasn't inhuman the way he was presented here. Assuming they didn't kill him off when they insinuated it, but if they did that'll be even worse. That out of the way, I also wasn't huge into the LARPing folks and thought it was a little silly that they played any role at the end. Otherwise, Jack was cool (even when he was teased as a villain), and Vera Farmiga ruled as always (even if her reveal was very predictable). And I don't know if this helps this show's argument, but major bonus points for leaning into the holiday season, will always dig that.
29. Black Widow (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: This movie ruled and if it really was ScarJo's last outing as Black Widow, it MORE than lived up to that character. That whole last half hour was incredible. It was a more "grounded" story relative to the recent Avengers movies but it was the perfect cool down after Endgame and had far more spectacle than I'd expect out of a spy movie. I thought all the performances knocked it out of the park, especially the 4 leads. I really enjoyed the Taskmaster/Dreykov villain combo, even if the motivation was a little to "Bond" for its own good. Still, it made sense to the way the Red Room and the Black Widows had been built up in the MCU previously, this movie just took it a step farther as was the natural progression. My main complaint is that Black Widow survives a few too many life-ending occurrences without any issue. She survives falling several stories, bashing herself off various things on the way down, and still manages to land on her feet. That's a little silly, but far from the silliest thing we've seen out of the MCU so I didn't rub up against it too hard. All in all, a really great movie that just barely stays out of the top tier.
28. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (Phase IV) - 7.5/10 Review: This was solid and well-acted across the board with some truly memorable characters and moments. I really appreciated the social commentary being made with the show, and the elements they borrowed from the source material really fit with the themes and tone. However, it doesn't rank higher because it focuses on an A-plot that is stretched too long and too thin in the Flag Smashers, and develops an extremely riveting B-plot centered around John Walker that has a bitter-sweet payoff that ultimately disappointed me. While I enjoyed the acting, some of the characters sort of took a backseat to others - namely Bucky, who could have had a bit more to do here. Returns like Zemo and Sharon Carter were welcome, and while both characters left an impression I can't help but feel they were slightly under-utilized in the big picture. Zemo's mask definitely was, at least. But I really dug Sam becoming Cap, John Walker pre-finale, and anything involving Isaiah Bradley, so there was definitely enough good to outshine the bad.
27. Moon Knight (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7.5/10 Review: Oscar Isaac puts on a masterclass in acting in each episode of this show, especially episode 5. It can't be overstated how great he did with the material, or the technical wonders the MCU had to have implemented to make his performance(s) come off so flawless. May Calamawy is also great as Layla, especially in the finale. Ethan Hawke was serviceable but the character itself was sort of one note and boring, I honestly enjoyed the trippy "psychologist vision" version of him more. The story was pretty straight forward action/adventure romp for the first 3 episodes, and then the last 3 added a much needed layer to the overall psychological side of it. I dug that it was self-contained with no larger connections to the MCU, and the post credits scene was pretty great. I loved the emphasis on mental health and the idea of learning to cope and work with the way one's brain works. All that said, for only being 6 episodes, the grand majority of the story just didn't click for me. If it weren't for Isaac's performance, it would have been a lot duller. The CGI was fudging awful in spots, but ended up getting better. The designs for the gods varied in quality, but they were still decently fun. For as "fresh" a take on a Marvel property as this was, the last episode is the epitome of the "big CG superhero third act" that the MCU gets valid criticism for often. Not only that, but that finale episode really felt disjointed and weirdly edited, with plot conveniences left and right. Overall, it was good enough and I am still looking forward to seeing where the character goes next (again, thanks to the post credits scene), but I'd be lying if I said it didn't leave a bit to be desired.
26. Ant-Man and The Wasp (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10 Review: This was a fun follow up to the first movie but I honestly thought it paled in comparison. Some of the humor came off a lot more forced this time around, and none of the shrinking sequences were as fun as the first movie, save for maybe the car chase bit. I thought the villain was badass though - far more interesting than Yellow Jacket, and the connection between Hank and Goliath was a nice little comic nod that goes along way in the plot. And that post-credits scene was real memorable. Overall though it just kinda came off as the "obligatory sequel" where everything just tried to be bigger (literally in some aspects) but ended up coming off more-or-less the same.
25. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (Phase II) - My Rating: 7.5/10 Review: Honestly felt a little bored the first time I watched this, but after a re-watch I realized I enjoyed it more than I thought. For a while, this would have been even lower on my list. I just feel like it was a little too long, a little too bland-looking (color pallet-wise) and a little too confusing. A lot of things had to be left to figure out or speculate on when that shouldn't have happened. I didn't like Kick Ass guy's take on Quicksilver, though Scarlett Witch ruled. I'd rather Ultron's look be closer to comics-Ultron, as opposed to just his little robot minions - but James Spader killed it in the voice acting department. I thought the ending was a little too close to The Avengers climax (big action set piece throughout a crowded city), and if it weren't for the floating city aspect it would have played exactly the same too. The Vision is one of my all-time favorites, so it was cool to see him show up, even if his debut scene was definitely a little lacking. They could have explained Thor's Jacuzzi scene a lot more, too. I also felt like Ultron's demise came on WAY too easily and quick, and some of the little comedy parts (little-Ultrons being scared of Hulk, for example) were rough. Overall though, this is a fun enough movie if a little disappointing.
24. Doctor Strange (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10 Review: This was a great movie really heightened by the main character and Cumberbatch. Guy nailed his stuff and brought a real weight to a the character who, while just as snarky, is a little more dark than Tony Stark. This movie as a whole was a little darker than the more colorful movies in the MCU while still achieving the colorful atmosphere that you'd expect when it comes to a Doctor Strange story. At the same time, the comedic front put up by Strange was a highlight of the film, his character seemed very real. There were a few iffy moments but for the most part this was wall-to-wall action - which was by far the most interesting part of the film. The trippy action sequences were a treat - including the climactic meeting with the evil force Dormammu. This film also featured a real, multi-layered primary villain whose motivation held water. No character in this movie was free of faults which leaves plenty of room for great character development. While I still prefer some earlier MCU entries, this movie stood out as a memorable adventure on its own merit.
23. Captain Marvel (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10 Review: Pretty damn good. After a choppy first act it really picked up and I enjoyed it a lot. Normal try-hard Marvel humor at points but I appreciated that the origin bits were handled in an interesting, surprisingly artistic way instead of just a by-the-numbers origin story. It had actual character depth, weighty moments and all the action you’d expect. About as good as you can hope for when it comes to a superhero movie that leans more “sci-fi” than usual. I dig the world it set up and am looking forward to the inevitable sequel.
22. Captain America: Civil War (Phase III) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: This movie was arguably saved by the second act and the emergence of the promising Spider-man character. Everything surrounding it felt a little rushed and, honestly, forgettable. A main string-pulling villain whose motivation and plan were really kind of weak and in turn made our two main Avengers, Iron Man and Captain America, look pretty stupid to get duped so hard. His initial issue with the heroes wasn't paid off well and couldn't deliver after the "main event" of the movie that featured the debut of Ant-Man's "Giant-Man" alter-ego fighting against Spider-man in the middle of a huge airport. This movie was the exact opposite of how I felt toward Age of Ultron - I thought I liked this movie more than I did until I re-watched it with my father a few weeks later and realized that I was actually kind of bored waiting for the Team Cap vs. Team Iron Man showdown. Once it came and went I almost didn't care enough to watch more but the finale fist fight is worth waiting for. I was definitely still more entertained by this than those ranked lower, obviously, and I really enjoyed the chemistry between RDJ and Chris Evans when they're playing off each other in more antagonistic roles. Their work really elevated this movie past the previous films on this list as they brought a real emotion to both their characters that added new layers even after years of playing them despite the wonky reasoning behind their conflict. And like I alluded to earlier, that climactic Winter Soldier/Captain America vs. Iron Man fist fight was both incredibly emotional and well-pulled off in terms of low-key action sequences. #TeamCap
21. Black Panther (Phase III) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: Great movie, all around. The casting was perfect for each role, the effects were as good as you'd expect, and the plot was fantastic. It was a little too long and there were some questionable elements (armored rhinos were the worst) but for the most part it was an extremely fun adventure romp. While I'm not black, I can appreciate this movie on a different level for the cultural significance at has apparently held among the black community, so that alone gives it a boost. While Black Panther is a great character on his own, it's really the villains Killmonger and Klaue that standout in this movie for me. While the ending was beautiful, I do wish it panned out a little differently to leave a Killmonger return open - but the way he ended made perfect sense for the character, and it was an awesome send-off after the movie built him up as not only a threat, but an extremely sympathetic threat. Good stuff for sure.
20. Captain America: The First Avenger (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: This movie has grown on me big time, I used to think it came off way too much like an Avengers prequel - a film just to shoehorn Captain America into the fold before the movie everyone actually wanted to see. Which was sort of the case, but I shouldn't have let that sully my movie-going experience. When I learned to look at this one as a more adventure movie in the lieu of Indiana Jones as opposed to a superhero film, I began appreciating it a lot more. It's a straight forward story and it sets up a lot of the best parts of the current MCU. Though he gets some slack, I very much enjoyed the Red Skull in this one - even though he just seems to be evil for evil's sake. Regardless, I enjoy the subtle approach at Captain America's origin to the point that they even kept his costume extremely basic, saving the more popular looking outfit for The Avengers. This is a really fun movie.
19. Loki (Phase IV) - 8/10 Review: To be honest I didn't love the start of this series. It took until the 3rd-4th episode, when things started getting really wild, to hook me. I feel the earlier episodes were packed with way too much exposition solely to pad the run time whereas were Loki to be a film, it would have taken 20 minutes to cover the same information. But the series definitely picked up with the inclusion of Richard E Grant and the opportunity to explore more Loki variants, and the finale was a masterclass in not just storytelling but also in transitioning an entire decade-old franchise into forward motion. At the time of this writing I haven’t seen Kang in the MCU yet, but Jonathan Majors rules and his portrayal of He Who Remains was fantastic.
18. Thor (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: Pretty much everything positive I had to say about The Dark World applies here x10, except with this one the villain was outstanding and easily the most memorable of the whole MCU. Seeing the almost-Shakespearean rivalry between Thor & Loki play out within not only a family conflict, but a war between Asgard & the Frost Giants was definitely something to behold. I liked the Earth scenes more in this one than in the Dark World, too, and the showdown with the Destroyer was so badass (even if not entirely true to the comic book character its based off of). The battle on the rainbow bridge at the end was really fun stuff. But what really stood out to me as making this movie was the setting. It looked great - a perfect mixture of fantasy and science fiction (which Asgard was supposed to be, essentially). This was kind of lost in The Dark World, where the new director took Asgard's look in a more typical fantasy style (that is, until those Dark Elf tie-fighters showed up). Couple the setting with Loki and a great hero/villain rivalry, and this is a classic in my opinion. That's not a sentiment many agree with, but I thought Thor was just great.
17. Ms. Marvel (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: This was a nice, grounded superhero origin with a direction style that seemed so fresh for the MCU. There were a few dud beats but overall I really dug the show and loved where it ended up. Iman Vellani is RDJ/Iron Man-level casting and she personifies Kamala Khan so perfectly. The insight to the Muslim culture was appreciated to, as it wasn't heavy-handed or a normal negative stereotype. Overall I appreciated the show for being a breezy watch each week. Something I could throw on and feel comforted by, knowing I'd be getting a Marvel story without huge stakes. It was real fun while it lasted, and I'm just hoping Kamala Khan can eventually return to this street-level vigilante role after what is sure to be a cosmic adventure in The Marvels.
16. Ant-Man (Phase II) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: If there's one thing I disliked here, it was how un-Paul Rudd Paul Rudd seemed. He was still funny, and in scenes seemed to come off the way we'd expect, but I was hoping for a much more comedic character. Regardless, the dude played one hell of a quasi-serious hero role. The supporting cast was awesome too, Evangeline Lily killed it as Hope - can't wait to see her as The Wasp. You could tell Corey Stoll was having a great time playing Yellow Jacket, and Michael Douglas actually seemed like he was having a good time too. And the physics-defying end battle was one of the best from the MCU, making such small set pieces seem so grand. This is what a superhero movie is all about, even if I feel this type of origin story was done a bit better in Iron Man.
15. The Avengers (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10 Review: I've seen this one so many times that it's actually started to wear a bit thin on me. For a long time Avengers would have been my number one, but with each re-watch, the plot holes stick out a bit more and the clumsy dialogue shines through big time. Other than that though, this is a near-perfect team up movie and the best product of a shared universe that the cinematic world has ever seen. You need to appreciate this movie just for what it is, a culmination of years of planning to bring these classic characters together in one movie. Bringing back Loki in his classic Avengers-villain role was a nice touch, and the Thanos hinting got any comic fan giddy when they first saw it. That shot of them all assembled in New York is a classic Hollywood moment now.
14. Guardians of the Galaxy (Phase II) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: I really, really liked this movie. Taking the MCU on a sci-fi path was not what I saw coming until this was announced, but after seeing it, I was glad it happened. Some of it is a little clumsy and doesn't quite fit, but for the most part, it does. It's super entertaining action and characters with some of the coolest locations the MCU has given us. Knowhere in a giant Celestial's severed head is such a cool visual. The prison scene, the final battle, the dance-off... so many memorable things in this one. This is also the best ensemble cast the MCU has had yet, with the Guardians having even more on-screen chemistry than the Avengers in my opinion. Chris Pratt beefed up big time for the role and it worked out well, he did great in it. Some of the jokes were a little corny, but overall Star Lord is a top hero now thanks to this movie. All the subtle hints at his parentage left plenty of place for speculation, and one sign of a good movie is when it leaves you wanting more. GotG definitely did that.
13. Spider-man: No Way Home (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: I'll admit this movie was a bit disjointed. There were a lot of storytelling shortcuts and "shrug off" moments (Ned's magic, Strange's attitude), but the pure nostalgic magic that the second half of this movie presents is enough to look past that stuff. Other than Tom Holland, who was legitimately great in this movie, Andrew Garfield stole the show. As someone not huge into the Amazing Spider-man movies, this really made me miss Garfield's take on it. Tobey Maguire was great too, and came off a lot more "real" than the original trilogy (which I obviously love). Willem Dafoe was another absolute highlight, that dude is horrifying. Jamie Foxx was as Jamie Foxx as ever, and while I dug this version of Electro, I don't really see much connective tissue to the character he's supposed to be reprising from ASM2. Sandman and Lizard were both pretty secondary, and neither had incredible CGI which made them a little less interested them. By the end battle, this is easily my favorite MCU Spider-man movie even though I know that's totally because it brought back the nostalgia within a story that's a little uneven.
12. Spider-man: Homecoming (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: Tom Holland was the best Peter Parker hands down, and really made me realize how old Tobey Maguire seems playing a graduating high school student in Spider-man 1. This dude had the quips and the confidence down and oozed the comic book character. It's wild for me to think we had the stuttering Andrew Garfeild approach just a few years ago, and already Holland shows up and just exudes this different, refreshing air for Peter Parker. Less angsty, more embracing of his heroic fate - just like the best incarnations of the character from the comics. The suit and all the various powers, adapted from numerous eras of the comic, were badass. I really enjoyed seeing Happy Hogan return, and the way they integrated the different aspects of past MCU movies was at its peak here. The characters were memorable. Ned was the fun relief sidekick. Flash Thompson was a whole new take on the character and I dug it. Incorporating both versions of Shocker from various Spider-man stories was neat, let alone having the Shocker at all. Michael Keaton stole the show with his memorable and unpredictable villain. This was a solid Spider-man movie that ranks there with the best of the genre. Deserving of the praise and the Spider-man legacy.
11. Spider-man: Far From Home (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: Homecoming was always just about on par with Spider-man 2 but this one stole the show. Save for Thor: Ragnarok, this is a comedic peak for the MCU too and, while it definitely had some staples of MCU storytelling, the cast and location really did well with presenting it differently. I was wondering how a Spider-man movie that takes place outside of NYC would play for me, personally, but it ended up being an extremely welcomed breath of fresh air. Holland continues to be the best theatrical Peter Parker. Mysterio did suffer from the same pitfalls as a lot of MCU villains - under-developed due to only appearing in one movie, with his entire true backstory coming during one real info-dumpy speech over the course of only one scene. But Gyllenhaal put in a great performance as the character. He made you believe that Mysterio could be an alright guy despite us all obviously knowing otherwise, and he really ramped up his intensity during the climax. His line "FIRE ALL THE DRONES" was about as loud and intense as I can remember Gyllenhaal. I dug the others in the cast too, all the characters given screen time did well. The MCU callbacks to movies like Iron Man and Captain Marvel were great, and the fudging cameo in the post-credits scene RULED. I audibly popped a "aw yes!" when it happened - and then the bombshell that was dropped on Spider-man himself was a great way to leave us on a cliffhanger while the MCU takes a few months off from releasing movies. Really fun stuff.
10. Thor: Love and Thunder (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: I really loved this one. When I learned to accept that this movie was a tried-and-true romcom wrapped up in a big, swashbuckling marvel adventure, the vision of the film REALLY became clear. When I realized they were telling a romance story, I was able to accept the somewhat giddy comedy of big lunk Thor as it was juxtaposed with the very grounded drama of a dying Jane Foster, who was trying to hide her ailment behind a big lunk Thor personality of her own. The Thor/Jane stuff was the true emotional core that, weirdly, I don't hear anybody talk about when this movie comes up. Anyone claiming this was nothing but comedy had to have missed the entire third act, which was mostly very depressing. Even if it was, at times, hopefully depressing. I don't know if that makes sense. I just feel like some folks were expecting Ragnarok 2 - another HEAVY METAL fantasy viking slaughter fest but ended up getting a much more heartfelt story than they were hoping for. That's perfectly valid, but it was just great for what we got. Gorr was awesome, Valkyrie rules, Korg added a lot. Loved the goats. Some of the "dad Thor" stuff at the end, specifically the final battle where an army of children help him out, was a bit heavy-handed, but I can shrug that off due to it tying into the theme of true love left unrealized, considering he could now never have a child with his true love. Plus I enjoy the "Love and Thunder" twist at the end and now desperately want to see a "Lone Wolf and Cub" style Thor story sometime in the future.
9. Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: I can only see this movie moving up my list upon re-watches. I had an immensely fun time watching this, with several "fist-pumping in theater" moments. If it weren't for the extended time with the movies higher on this list, I imagine this one would be pretty top-tier. Sam Raimi is turned up to 11 with his direction and, as a Raimi fan, I loved to see it. All performances were top notch but Elizabeth Olsen puts in a heroic performance as the Scarlet Witch (which is ironic considering she's full-blown villain here). I can understand the few polarizing opinions on her being the main baddie, but even though WandaVision ended on a generally positive note, everything we learn in that series sets up this role for Wanda to a tee. When she's stalking the heroes toward the end of the film, it's truly a thing of nightmares and I loved it. Doctor Strange was handled well here too, much better than in No Way Home, and seeing the different variants was awesome. "Defender" Strange as an undead proxy for MCU Strange was so badass, especially with that cloak of demons he used to get to Wundagore. America Chavez was really well utilized and it was nice seeing some LGBTQ+ representation in the MCU without it being a pandering element. And before this gets too long, I loved seeing the Illuminati. Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic was great and here's hoping he's back in a full fledged Fantastic Four movie eventually. Captain Carter ruled (and is a fudgein babe ps). It was nice to see Xavier back with the classic Animated Series hover chair (and music), and having an alternate Captain Marvel was great. By far my favorite of the Illuminati, though, was Black Bolt. I'm a huge fan of the Inhumans comics and was happy for the actor from that awful TV show get a comic-accurate whack at him on the big screen. All their deaths were grizzly as hell and absolutely not what one has come to expect from the MCU, with, again, Black Bolt's standing out most brutal to me. All in all, a great movie that's designed for repeat viewings. I loved it.
8. Avengers: Endgame (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: A very satisfying cap-off to the first 10/11 years of the MCU. All the throwbacks were great fun to see, and the return of the beloved "dusted" was fun. Even though this one is 5 on my list, there's a strong argument for the Cap/hammer moment being my absolute favorite moment of any MCU film. Tony's death was perfectly done - a callback to the end of Iron Man, but then the tragedy of him not uttering a single word during his final moments. Cap's story played out how I expected it more-or-less, and I thought it was a great send-off for him. It makes sense that he'd get the final scene when you think about how the Russo brothers had written all the Captain America movies since The First Avenger - this was them putting a definitive finale on the character (even if he does somehow show up again). Thanos was still a great threat, and I loved how they played around with different versions of him. I'd really need to write a novel to sum up my complete thoughts about this movie, so I'll just leave it at that. It was a great time to spend in a theater.
7. WandaVision (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10 Review: I love Wanda and Vision is one of my favorite characters from the comics, so it was great to get to see these characters get some extended time to shine after being somewhat side-lined in the main movies. Seeing White Vision was honestly something I never expected, and I thought the philosophical conversation that ended his "arc" in this series was done perfectly. I also loved Agatha and she's easily one of the stronger MCU villains. Wiccan and Speed were a cool addition, even if things didn't pan out too well for them - though I do imagine these versions will appear later on down the line. Jimmy Woo, Darcy, and to a lesser extent, Hayward were welcome additions to the show. I loved the theorizing that was made possible by the week-to-week structure, even if just about every single one was debunked in service of a much more straight-forward story (which is fine by me for the most part). I loved how it wrapped up, with Wanda realizing her true abilities and finally becoming the triumphant Scarlet Witch. This could have been a 9.5 for me if it weren't for the Quicksilver/Pietro/Fietro/Ralph story. While Evan Peters' surprise appearance was one of the highlights of the show, and while it was neat to see him in the classic Halloween costume, how they handled his explanation for being there was lackluster. Theories/multiverse aside, he only had 2 scenes in the finale and they weren't very impactful by any means. If pulled off better, I could forgive them a bit easier for blatantly using fan expectations for "water cooler talk" only to completely side step it, but the reveal that he was Ralph was disappointing and dinged the score a bit. Still a great series with a great story that I could see moving up this ranking list as time goes (it's #6 at the time of this writing).
6. Avengers: Infinity War (Phase III) - My Rating: 9/10 Review: The best Avengers movie for sure. It's a little too long (but I stress it didn't feel it), the tone shifts a bit (but it was pulled off nearly flawlessly), and it at one point it was jarring going from space-to-Earth (ONE time). Otherwise, this movie was nearly perfect. I enjoy Rangarok and Winter Soldier a bit more after only one viewing, because those movies fit incredible storytelling and fun stories into the average run time of these sorts of movies, but this movie was near perfect for what it was. The most impressive cast maybe ever, balanced as perfectly as you could imagine. The weight of the ending was lost for anyone who knows of future Marvel plans, but it was still extremely ballsy to end the big 10th year blow-off film on such a down-note. Perhaps my favorite post-credits scene since Iron Man or the first Avengers too. All around great outing from Marvel.
5. Iron Man (Phase I) - My Rating: 9/10 Review: This is the best superhero origin story put to film yet, in my opinion. Just about as perfect a comic book origin adaptation as you can get. Robert Downey, Jr. killed it as Tony Stark, obviously, and has yet to kill it the same way so far. The action was great, the characters were great, the villain was great. The third act kinda fell flat during the final battle but picked right back up for the ending. The "I am Iron Man" deal was so, so good. And the post-credits scene that hinted at what was to come is legendary now. Sam Jackson showing up as Nick Fury was a stroke of genius.
4. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (Phase IV) - 9/10 Review: A better origin story than Iron Man... there, I said it. Never ever expected that, but I definitely think Shang-Chi takes the cake. It didn't waste time having us watch the true-and-tried trajectory of an origin movie by making us sit through a "fish out of water" story with a learning montage, instead it integrated flashbacks perfectly to accent what was happening in the current-day story perfectly. In fed us information as we needed it when the main plot required that we learn it. Simu Liu was great as Shang-Chi and I can't wait to see more of him in the MCU. Awkwafina was fudging great as Katy and I'm SO happy that this movie kept that relationship platonic and not romantic. Big step for the MCU. Everyone in the cast was great. Bringing Ben Kngsley back as Trevor Slattery was a stroke of genius and almost single-handedly redeemed his plot point in Iron Man 3, though Wenwu's explanation for how a splinter of the Ten Rings created a "boogie man" called the Mandarin to attack the US did a lot of good in that department too. A movie that redeemed Iron Man 3 was not something I was expecting. The whole third act, while definitely stepping into what would usually be the "common big CGI smash up" finale that most MCU movies get, this movie did so in a way that was so fresh and interesting and fun. Movie went from street level to "flying dragons around and battling them" level. Just an incredibly fun experience. Great stuff.
3. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (Phase III) - My Rating: 9/10 Review: I love this movie. For a while, this one was just below the first but after a rewatch months later, I find myself relating to this one a whole lot more. I think the Starlord/Ego dynamic plays into that too. Not that my father and I are on bad terms, we're a little more distant than the childhood version of myself would have expected, so it hits strings there. It was both funnier and more emotional for me than the first. Pretty much the whole third act really moved me, I'm a sucker for father/son issues in films. That includes the best part of this film: Michael Rooker's Yondu. He played a much more complex role than the original lead on. Drax was on, Baby Groot was awesome, Star Lord was once again a great lead, the Gamora/Nebula arc was fantastically paid off here, and Rocket was once again the backbone of the movie. There were a few jokes that didn't hit, but most of them did for sure. Kurt Russel killed it as Ego and I loved his story. Great stuff.
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Phase II) - My Rating: 9.5/10 Review: Where the first Cap movie was a straight adventure, this was a straight action movie and didn't apologize for it once. The action in the MCU has never looked better and the character development was great here. At least for Cap, I could have done without the whole "Nick Fury lives" thing that the MCU is so fond of doing. But other than that, this movie delivered on all fronts. The follow up to Bucky Barnes' storyline was great too - The Winter Soldier is arguably the most badass villain any MCU movie has seen so far. It's almost a shame that he'll be put in the hero role sooner than later apparently, because the mechanic between he and Steve Rogers was the most interesting part of this film. The ending where we see that Bucky saved Cap at the last second was such a feel-good moment for us comic fans, though. And Robert Redford being in a superhero movie and actually looking like he gives a crap was just about one of the most off-putting but coolest things ever.
1. Thor: Ragnarok (Phase III) - My Rating: 9.5/10 Review: I felt sort of guilty moving Spider-man down from 2 so quickly after it took that spot - but after finally geting around to Ragnarok, this is certainly one of the absolute best superhero movies I've ever seen. As a lifelong fan of Thor in particular, this was the movie I always knew he was capable of having. It actually surpassed my childhood imagination, as Thor was hardly the comedic vessel back then as he is nowadays. This movie ties up so many threads perfectly. Odin's whereabouts were handled beautifully. The Thor/Loki dynamic was explored far better here than any film before it, and it was used perfectly as the third cap to the Thor trilogy. Hulk being far more realized than ever before was cool, standing upright with his shoulders back. The Thor/Banner stuff was the comedic core. And this was definitely comedic - but it was equally as epic and heartfelt. This movie, upon a few more rewatches, could easily top my list. It really depends on whether I'm in a "political action drama" mood or a "fantasy sci fi" mood, but Winter Soldier definitely has some serious competition for me now. Also: CATE BLANCHETT'S HELA OMIGOD
It's been a while since my last full re-watch. I think the last time was leading up to Endgame. After Endgame, we went back and re-watched a few of our favorites, but that's it. Not too much changed on my list since last time. I added WandaVision (which was really difficult to place), moved Captain Marvel down a bit since I've still only seen it the once and I think I rated it too highly then due to having just seen it at the time. I also swapped Homecoming and First Avenger. Part of me feels like WandaVision could go higher, but I also feel like maybe it shouldn't be quite as high as it is, so idk. I would definitely like to re-watch it in the near future.
24. The Incredible Hulk 23. Iron Man 22. Iron Man 3 21. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 20. Thor 19. Doctor Strange 18. Thor: The Dark World 17. Guardians of the Galaxy 16. Ant-Man 15. Captain America: The First Avenger 14. Spider-Man: Homecoming 13. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 12. Captain Marvel 11. Spider-Man: Far From Home 10. Ant-Man and the Wasp 9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 8. The Avengers 7. Avengers: Age of Ultron 6. Captain America: Civil War 5. WandaVision 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
@theJaw Nice topic. Hard to compile a list though, since there are many Marvel movies I haven't yet seen. I haven't seen at least 10 of the ones below.
> I'm shocked y'all put Guardians II above the OG. I need to go back and rewatch both
> to see if I'm just remembering them differently.
I think the villain is way better, and the whole third act is so well executed.
Also really the only Marvel movie that makes me cry, there I said it. That ending wrecks me. I got teary eyed during Endgame just from pure “awesome” spectacle, and the finale of WandaVision got me a bit misty, but GOTG2 hits the soft spots. Sucker for a father/son story.
I actually think the first GotG is pretty overrated (for an MCU movie). It's ok, but each time I re-watch it, I like it a little less. GotG2 has gotten better with repeated viewings though.
My list has definitely changed over the years. Some of it is due to multiple rewatches with them being on Epix and TNT/TBS every single day.
-------Lower Tier-------
24. Thor: The Dark World - It's just a boring film. The premise makes very little sense. It feels like a very low stakes movie as well
23. Black Panther - I know I'll get roasted for this one, but I really don't like this movie. It is very cliche, and I found most of it boring. The CGI in the final battle is laughably bad. I really don't get the love for this one.
22. The Incredible Hulk - It hurts to put this one so low since I love Edward Norton. It's just a boring film with little implications on the rest of the MCU. It also suffers from the early MCU trope of the main villain having closely related powers to the hero.
21. Iron Man 2 - I know this is not a great movie. The villain is very bland. The plot is boring. It's very underwhelming in the grand scheme of the MCU. The saving grace here is the introduction of Black Widow and the greater implications in the MCU. Black Widow is my favorite Avenger (or at least she was until WandaVision), so it's fun to go back and watch this one every once in a while.
---------Middle Tier--------
20. Iron Man 3 - This is a very uneven film. I like the story arc for Tony Stark. The plot really dives deep into his personality and sets up his motivation for future MCU flims. The problem is, again, there are little to know consequences. It feels like it's own film, separated from everything that comes after it. He retires from being Iron Man...until the next movie. His iron fleet is impressive, but they break apart like cans. Iron Patriot never exists again...
19. Thor - One character saves this film...Loki. Thor is not a very good character at first. It's hard to feel anything for him. Loki, on the other hand, is a great villain. He's not evil for the sake of being evil. He has real motivations, and that helps elevate him to a much higher status than most early MCU villains.
18. Ant Man and the Wasp - I really enjoyed this one in the theater, but I feel asleep trying to rewatch it. It's just...boring. The villain is underwhelming. It is also very disconnected from the greater MCU with the exception of the final scene.
17. Ant Man - Maybe it's because I've seen it so much, but I find this one to be boring now. I used to have it higher up the list, but I'm not a big fan anymore.
16. Dr. Strange - Such a weird movie, but they made it work. I enjoyed this one, probably based on the performances more than the story.
15. Captain America: The First Avenger - I really do enjoy this film. It was a difficult task to set up Captain America for the 21st century. I never thought for a second that I would like Captain America. He's just such a dumb, old fashioned character. This movie was smart to put him in the WW2 era and have him frozen to set up current day Steve. The biggest problem with this movie is the villain. Red Skull is such a great character, but this movie wastes the potential of the character and the fantastic actor they got to play him.
14. Captain Marvel - This one dropped a lot on my list because repeated viewings have left me a bit bored. The beginning, before they come to Earth, is particularly bad. I still do enjoy it. I really like the chemistry between Fury and Carol, and I think the Kree/Skrull storyline will be important moving forward in the MCU.
13. Spiderman: Homecoming - This has also dropped a bit over the years. It's still a great movie, and I think Tom Holland is an excellent Spiderman (my favorite so far). I think this was too low stakes for a Spiderman movie. I like that they focused on a lesser known villain than we usually see. I know they were aiming for a friendly neighborhood Spiderman still in high school. Hopefully the third film gets into more high stakes Spiderman stories.
---------High Tier-------------
12. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - The only problem I have with this one is Ego. The rest of the movie is great. The Yondu plot is great. The characters and the comedy really make this film a fun watch.
11. Spiderman: Far From Home - Again, I like how they focused on a lesser known Spiderman villain. This one was a lot of fun. Admittedly, I haven't seen this one as much as the others, so it could go up or down on my list in the future.
10. Guardians of the Galaxy - This one has lost a little of it's luster for me, but it's still a great film. It's funny because I knew nothing about this before it came out and thought it was going to be so stupid.
9. Avengers: Age of Ultron - This is not at the level of the other Avengers movies, but it's still a really fun movie. I love the Hulk vs. Iron Man Hulkbuster battle, and the introduction of Wanda and Vision makes this one stand out.
8. Iron Man - This is how you do an origin story. It still holds up today. There are tons of classic lines from this one, and Tony's ark is one of the best in the MCU. Tony's complete ark from IM to End Game is incredible. The only character ark that comes close is Thor's, but that one still has time to develop.
7. WandaVision - Man, I loved this show. I was already loving Wanda. After End Game, with Black Widow dead, I was leaning towards Wanda as my new favorite Avenger, but this show helped solidify it.
6. Avengers: End Game - Part of this being so high is emotional reactions to certain scenes. On one hand, this would not have worked if it wasn't for the 22 films that came before it. In my opinion, it was a bit disappointing after the greatness that was Infinity War. On the other hand, it had to be incredible difficult to wrap up such a huge story. The biggest problem is it's not the same Thanos that they lost to, so it kind of takes away the emotional impact of the win. The good news is the good far outweighs my critiques, so it is pretty high up on my list.
5. The Avengers - Back when this came out, I remember thinking it was going to be stupid. Boy was I wrong. What else can be said about it. It's iconic by this point. Everything just worked.
--------Godly Thor Tier---------
4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier - From a pure story perspective, this could be #1. It's dropped all the way to 4 because my top 3 are just incredible. I can watch this one a hundred times and never get bored.
3. Captain America: Civil War - This was so well done. You understand everybody's motivation, and it just feels so natural. Tony and Steve being on opposite sides and digging their heals in makes perfect sense. The villain using that division to his advantage makes sense. Steve protecting Bucky makes sense. It's just all so well done. It also introduces Spiderman and Black Panther, and they both steal the show. It's a great film.
2. Thor Ragnorok - It's amazing what a new director and new vision can accomplish. This is SO MUCH BETTER than the other two Thor films. This one was incredible
1. Avengers: Infinity War - This is easily my #1. It's action packed from beginning to end. The comedy still holds up, even after multiple viewings. The ending was the most shocking and unexpected ending of any blockbuster film in my lifetime (including Empire), and it still holds up. And Thor's entrance into Wakanda still gives me goosebumps, even after multiple viewings.
@bonham2 Pretty solid list. I've only seen Black Panther twice, I could see moving it down a bit in my ranking, but 23rd seems really low! I'm surprised you find Ant-Man and the Wasp boring, I think that's one of the funnest/funniest MCU movies.
I don't get the love for Black Panther. I understand the cultural significance. Other than that, I felt it was a completely generic action film. It's Rocky 3 but with superheroes.
It's probably the only movie that I couldn't wait for it to end, and I haven't watched it twice. I also couldn't get past the horrible CGI. The CGI is on the level with X-men Origins Wolverine.
It's not a favorite of mine and I agree the CG isn't as top notch as other MCU movies, but it's nowhere near Origins lol. Should also be noted that the movie wasn't "locked" until like 4 weeks before release or something like that, and for one reason or another the crew was forced to rush animation toward the end of the movie, thus armored rhinos and the train fight.
I appreciate it for not skimping on the setting or the culture of the characters - they didn't try to make it more "approachable" for us folks in the states who aren't as knowledgeable about that sort of lifestyle. I also dig the characters, and the dynamics between them and their factions. The villain is one of MCU's best with actual motivation and a relatable backstory. There is also some real GOOD CG in the movie before the third act, especially the landscapes and setting, and a few tense action scenes during the second act. Cinematography was also great with the huge sprawling establishing shots.
I definitely wasn't bored with it whatsoever, even if it doesn't rank super high on my list. The only movie that REALLY bores me is Iron Man 2, and then stretches of Incredible Hulk, Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3 do too.
Each of those movies has some boring sections. Heck, even End Game dragged a bit in the middle. Black Panther pretty much bored me through the majority of the 2nd and 3rd acts. Also, I don't care what the reason is for the bad CGI. I don't care if elementary school children were working on it. It sucked. The final battle is easily the worst looking scene in all of the MCU. That is something out of a video game. A movie the size and scope of something like Black Panther demands better CGI.
Welp I still disagree that it "sucked", it was a step below for sure but certainly nowhere near the worst that I've ever seen. Personally I feel the shots of Banner in the Hulk Buster with his little head poking out in Infinity War looked just as bad if not worse. And my mentioning the reason for the lesser-than CG in the third act wasn't an attempt to make you care necessarily, I was just sharing the legitimate reason it looked the way it did. A rare misfire in the scheduling department for Marvel.
Regardless, after Steppenwolf in the original Justice League movie, literally anything in the MCU looks like gold in the CG department. Would take Superman vs. an armored rhino from Black Panther over that mess any day.
I have no eye for bad cgi, at least not "bad by today's standards". CGI in older movies looks awful most of the time now. But I honestly never noticed a problem with the CGI at the end of Black Panther until people were talking about it so much and I looked it up. I guess I see it, but it doesn't look that bad to me.
@theJaw I can understand the other movies you mentioned, but which parts of Age of Ultron bore you?
@scott the color palette is the main thing, the movie seems sorta muted compared the the first as far as color goes. But also tbh anything else with Ultron+the twins was sorta boring. Wanda grew into one of my favorites but Quicksilver remains one of my least, and their stuff in AoU just didn’t do it for me. I loved Spader as Ultron but unless he was interacting with the heroes or Vision, the scenes sorta dragged. I also wasn’t blown away by the third act climax. If it wasn’t for the floating city effect, it was essentially the same ending as the first Avengers movie, just a bunch of nameless, faceless pawns getting blasted by the Avengers throughout a city. Then there are all the “visions”, and Thor’s real dumb jacuzzi stuff that was shoehorned in and didn’t add anything to the actual story of the movie.
I like AoU more these days than I did a while back but it’s still sort of a jumbled mess at times, and is easily the worst Avengers movie out of the 4.
@theJaw It's been a while since I've watched it (I'm thinking a full re-watch is in order soon) but AoU is the MCU film that improved the most for me after repeated viewings, to the point that I now like it even better than A1. The biggest thing I didn't like about it is the final battle, which you mentioned, but it still has plenty of good moments throughout, even if it mirrors A1 too much, and Ultron wasn't defeated in a particularly satisfying way. I liked Wanda a lot in it, and I even liked Quicksilver and hated that he dies at the end. Hulk vs Iron Man in Hulkbuster suit was great. I actually thought the visions were interesting, but Thor's wasn't explained well-enough. Vision was of course great as well.
> Welp I still disagree that it "sucked", it was a step below for sure but certainly
> nowhere near the worst that I've ever seen. Personally I feel the shots of Banner
> in the Hulk Buster with his little head poking out in Infinity War looked just as
> bad if not worse. And my mentioning the reason for the lesser-than CG in the third
> act wasn't an attempt to make you care necessarily, I was just sharing the legitimate
> reason it looked the way it did. A rare misfire in the scheduling department for
> Marvel.
>
> Regardless, after Steppenwolf in the original Justice League movie, literally anything
> in the MCU looks like gold in the CG department. Would take Superman vs. an armored
> rhino from Black Panther over that mess any day.
Lol, I agree with you on the Justice League comparison. I'm hoping the 4 hour Snyder release on Thursday improves on it greatly, although I read that the CGI is still poor in areas. Comparing anything MCU to that train wreck of a movie is not fair to the MCU. The theatrical release of Justice League was absolutely horrible.
The problem with much of the poor CGI we see nowadays has to do with shadows, natural movement, and weight. Many times we don't know what is wrong with the scene. We just know it doesn't look right. An example would be if the light source doesn't create shadows on the right areas or when a character seems weightless. In JL, Steppenwolf seems like he's not even there. The heroes are punching at nothing, and it's added in.
The final scene in Black Panther suffers from all of these issues. There is no real light source in the underground fight, and both characters are wearing black, so there are no shadows and very little contrast with the surroundings. They seem to move very unnaturally. And they both seem like they are completely weightless. It's a bad scene.
By comparison, Thanos is an absolute CGI success. It wouldn't have worked if he looked like a real human or if he looked too cartoony. He is perfect. He has stubble. He has emotions. Characters react to him naturally. He seems to hit with real force and take real blows, so he has weight. The shadows on his face are always perfect. That is some of the best CGI I have ever seen. I have no answer for Banner's head in the Hulkbuster suit. It's ridiculous. I can only assume they had him as Hulk (see the trailers)and had to change to Hulkbuster with very little notice. That's the only explanation I can think of.
@bonham2 I definitely don't disagree with anything you said there, I think we're just on different thresholds for how hard lesser-than CGI affects our overall opinions of a scene and/or movie. Your criticisms are valid for sure, the things you mentioned just don't negatively affect the experience I got from the rest of the movie the same way it does you. Which is fine obv, different opinions are what make this sort of stuff fun to talk about.
ANYhow, unrelated, I was wondering where Zack Snyder's Justice League would rank among the MCU movies and tbh, I think it'd land right at #17, pushing Captain Marvel to #18 while keeping Civil War at #16. Which, much to my own surprise, means that on any given day, I'd likely rather watch ZSJL, a 4-hour movie, over Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Age of Ultron, Ant-man and the Wasp, Incredible Hulk, or either Iron Man sequel. Didn't expect to type that out in my lifetime. Still not as good as top tier MCU (and only just skirting the line into middle tier), but I didn't expect to enjoy the Snyder cut as much as I did and definitely didn't expect to enjoy a Snyder DC movie more than any MCU movie.
I started ZS Justice League with my boys, but we couldn't finish it yet. So far, it's far superior to anything in the original. The Steppenwolf/Amazon battle was great. And the Wonder Woman bank scene was much better too. It really makes you wonder why the hell Joss Whedon changed those scenes...was it a time issue or did he think his version was better? Steppenwolf looks much better too. I think my biggest problem all of the DC movies is the tone is just wrong. Superman is my all time favorite superhero, but his DCEU version is horrible, and then the about face in the theatrical Justice League where he was going joking and happy just didn't fit at all, either with the tone of the movie or with the character they had already set up.
I will definitely reserve judgement until after I've completed it, but so far, so good.
@bonham2 that whole Amazon/Steppenwolf sequence may be my favorite scene... it’s just so epic in scope.
Through interviews and whatnot it’s become clear that WB wanted a more accessible 2 hour movie so that they could sell more tickets per day, and then you add that to the fact that Whedon’s cut does everything it possibly can to “brighten” the tone (including literally brightening the movie with color correction) and it becomes obvious they reeaally just wanted an Avengers knock off. It was probably the most boneheaded example of studio tampering I’ve ever heard of, attempting to turn what is essentially the LOTR of superhero movies into a normal 2 hour team-up movie. After all, it’s clear that Wonder Woman and Aquaman were going in complete opposite directions than the Snyder cut, tone-wise, so they were probably just trying their hardest to make the theatrical JL’s tone match those other movies. They failed even at that.
I cannot fathom the idea that anyone looked at the theatrical cut next to the Snyder cut and considered it “better”, that would be absurd. I think by the time Whedon finished his cut, WB were ready to just hedge their bets and roll with whatever punches came their way. It’s clear they just wanted the DC equivalent to the MCU and Snyder was giving them the DC equivalent to Tolkein.
Also, I agree that MoS and BvS dropped the ball on Superman the way he’s most commonly presented. Cavill works perfectly but the material he was handed just wasn’t “Superman”. However, ZSJL is easily the most accurate they’ve come to Superman and his true personality in these new DC movies (costume not withstanding), and it’s a shame we won’t see more of it (though, if reports/hints in this movie are to be believed, he wouldn’t have been classic Superman for very long in potential sequels anyways so whatev I guess).
6. Endgame ---- I could forgive this if they actually adhere to the time travel multiverse they try to do, but Captain America re-appearing at the end should not happen at all. If small changes change a timeline, his existence should make a new timeline and he should not appear. I know the directors gave some dumb ass explanation somewhere but no, you butt-holes/Disney just want to appease fans and milk the MCU name more with new shows, etc. The last half is pure fan service, good or bad. And they massively screw over other timelines just to save theirs. How is this seemingly never criticized? Also, Captain Marvel could easily take out Thanos but in rare fashion they actually kill off a main hero - who hopefully stays dead.
Also, fudge all these movies for the unnecessary product placement. They don't need product placement money, at all. It makes sense in the beginning with the Iron Man movies, as it wasn't a guaranteed success. But I don't need to see a close up of Tony's Audi logo in Endgame every time he drives somewhere.
Updated my ranking list to include F&WS. It lands definitively (for now) in the middle tier, at 21 out of the 25 MCU projects.
I bumped it up half a point from the 7/10 I posted in the MCU thread to a 7.5/10 here, solely because I looked at the other movies rated 7 and below (The Dark World, Iron Man 3, Incredible Hulk & Iron Man 2) and can confidently say I enjoyed F&WS more than any of them. At the same time, I can then look at Ant-Man and The Wasp (which was the lowest-ranked 7.5 on my list prior to the update) and can confidently say I enjoy that more than F&WS, so the extra half point and placement on the list feels justified.
I definitely liked F&WS but am in no rush to rewatch it unless someone makes a fan edit of some sort. I bet someone could put together a decent 2.5-3 hour movie with some clever trimming.
EDIT: already found a fanedit that puts the show into a 3 hour movie format, roughly half the length of the series. That was a quick turn around haha. I'll give it a go and see how it is.
I didn't put much thought into it and went with this:
25. The Incredible Hulk 24. Iron Man 23. Iron Man 3 22. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 21. Thor 20. Doctor Strange 19. Thor: The Dark World 18. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 17. Guardians of the Galaxy 16. Ant-Man 15. Captain America: The First Avenger 14. Spider-Man: Homecoming 13. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 12. Captain Marvel 11. Spider-Man: Far From Home 10. Ant-Man and the Wasp 9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 8. The Avengers 7. Avengers: Age of Ultron 6. Captain America: Civil War 5. WandaVision 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
Finally gave Captain Marvel a second viewing. I still think it's pretty solid, I'll keep it right at the bottom of my top-tier MCU projects. I liked that it was set in the 90s, the clothing styles and soundtrack were both great. The action/fight scenes were all great. The humor was pretty good. There were some mostly minor things I didn't like though:
1) The way Fury lost his eye was disappointing. It's teased the whole movie, just for a cat (flerken) to scratch it?
2) Speaking of the flerken, where did it come from? It was already on Earth, wandering Shield headquarters. Why was this not explained at all?
3) On second watch, Larson was a little inconsistent. I think she was at her best in the action scenes, she sold those well. But whenever she was just talking, whether she was saying something funny, or it was one of those moments where she was supposed to come off cool/badass, it was very hit or miss.
Most of the vehement online hate she receives really isn’t even in regards to her acting, that’s just the excuse her most toxic naysayers use to not come off as easily-offended nerds who got triggered by her opinion regarding diversity among film critics. She had virtually no “heat” before her interview regarding the response to the movie A Wrinkle In Time and was generally considered a top tier actress after her movie Room, but then she made comments that neckbeards took personally for one reason or the other. With Captain Marvel as her next high profile movie, they then aimed their vitriol toward her performance in that.
Not saying that’s the case for everyone who has been critical of her performance, and that certainly doesn’t seem to be Scott’s reasoning, but the instant internet backlash after her comments so close to the release of Captain Marvel is a pretty dead giveaway for why the atmosphere surrounding her seemed so negative. Any sincere opinion on her or her movies is a valid one good or bad, but the “hate” surrounding Larson as Captain Marvel really wasn’t warranted imo.
I personally thought she did really well in Captain Marvel. Not great, not a shoe-in like RDJ to Iron Man or anything like that, but still a perfectly fine performance in service of the movie itself. I do somewhat dislike her performance in Endgame though. The solo Captain Marvel movie was still being made while her scenes in Endgame were being filmed, so the Russo Bros opted to not try and define her personality which resulted in a somewhat straight-laced, overly-stoic performance that came off as just average. Thankfully she was only in that movie for like 5 minutes so it didn’t cause any harm, and it didn’t hamper my opinion of Larson or the character either.
I rewatched the entire MCU a couple months ago. My list is similar to the one in OP, Thor 3 on top, though for me Iron Man 2 was in my top 5 and I still liked GotG1 better even if the specific character plots of 2 are better done
Both Iron Man sequels are pretty lackluster. Better than plenty of non-MCU movies but those are the 2 I revisit least probably. They add nothing of consequence to the Iron Man character that the Avengers series doesn’t already. IM2s villains are just the first movie’s villain split into two less interesting halves, and 3 was more of a 007: Tony Stark movie than a full fledged Iron Man movie despite the standard “big superhero” CGI climax where he blows up a million suits and quits being Iron Man (which is then 100% ignored and not even mentioned in his next appearance, Age of Ultron).
Best things either movie introduced were Black Widow in IM2 and the idea that Pepper has the “hero instinct” when necessary in IM3.
Speaking of Pepper, can I tell you how much I HATED seeing her in the Rescue suit in Endgame? It was so unearned. She just shows up at the end of the entire saga, and she is practically leading the Women of the MCU scene (which is easily the most painful scene to watch in any Avengers movie...I cringe every time I see it).
> To be honest, everything pre-Winter Soldier is somewhat rough in comparison with
> later movies.
This (except for the first Avengers). There are a couple exceptions, but for the most part, the movies at the top of my list are newer, and slowly get older as it gets toward the bottom of my list.
I thought it was absolutely fine. She lived, married, had a kid with Iron Man. In Iron Man 3 she proved her worth as someone who could hold her own. It's just as believable as anything else in Endgame (or any superhero movie). She could have been trained by Tony to use that tech at some point beforehand (or else why would armor to her specifications even exist?) and would have been a leading figure in finding Tony regardless. It makes sense why she'd be part of the attack.
It's the Marvel universe for cryin' out loud, it's the most "comic book" of comic book movies. Pepper getting the mantle she has in the comics doesn't need to be a huge Shakespearean epic to get her there, it's just a nice visual. Same for all the lady heroes teaming up for a single scene or the random rat that freed Scott Lang at the start of the movie. Given the ending of Iron Man 3 and the relationship between her and Tony, it made just as much sense as it needed to.
Would I have LIKED a bit more of RESCUE before the big Endgame climax? Sure. But it certainly didn't bother me one way or the other.
Because it's so contrived. It just so happens that all the women characters, and only the women characters, come to protect Carol. And they all come one at a time so they each get their moment on screen. It's like they were screaming, "Hey look at us and all of our strong women characters!!!"
That’s what I mean. My sisters dug it, my niece loved it... any woman/girl I’ve personally talked to about it either liked it or at the very least were indifferent to it. It’s literally only dudes who I’ve ever seen bring that scene up as something to legitimately criticize.
I’m not saying no women have that opinion of it, but it seems rare in comparison to the guys who take issue. It probably seems so forced because up until that point there’s only ever been big convenient superhero team-up shots that were comprised mostly of men with maybe a lady or two tossed in.
Like I said, in a movie like Endgame that’s literally all fan service and giant superhero dream shots put to film, I couldn’t imagine being so bent out of shape toward the one single shot that wasn’t geared specifically “toward” me.
Re-opened and updated for Black Widow's release. I really liked it, but was still surprised that it ended up at #13 on my current list. I didn't expect it to be quite that high, even if it is still right in the mid-tier.
I didn't put too much thought into it, and I'll definitely need to give it a second viewing to be sure. But, it ended up a bit higher in my ranking than I expected.
26. The Incredible Hulk 25. Iron Man 24. Iron Man 3 23. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 22. Thor 21. Doctor Strange 20. Thor: The Dark World 19. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 18. Guardians of the Galaxy 17. Ant-Man 16. Captain America: The First Avenger 15. Black Widow 14. Spider-Man: Homecoming 13. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 12. Captain Marvel 11. Spider-Man: Far From Home 10. Ant-Man and the Wasp 9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 8. The Avengers 7. Avengers: Age of Ultron 6. Captain America: Civil War 5. WandaVision 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
I could live without ever seeing these again.... 26. Iron Man 3 25. Iron Man 2 24. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2
Average Marvel movies, not bad but not special.... 23. Ant Man and the Wasp (probably around 15 with a good villain) 22. Ant Man 21. Black Panther (probably 11 with a good villain) 20. The Incredible Hulk 19. Thor The Dark World 18. WandaVision 17. Doctor Strange
These are either OG and special to me, or had potential to be pretty good.... 16. Thor 15. Iron Man 14. Black Widow 13. Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Getting hot now!.... 12. Guardians of the Galaxy 11. Spiderman Homecoming 10. Spiderman Far From Home 9. Captain America The First Avenger 8. The Avengers
I really , really like these... 7. Thor Ragnarok 6. Captain Marvel 5. Avengers Age of Ultron
The baddest, most bestest super hero movies ever... 4. Captain America The Winter Soldier 3. Captain America Civil War (introduction of Spiderman & Black Panther bump this one up a bit for me) 2. Avengers Endgame 1. Avengers Infinity War
Updated my list in the OP. Still haven’t seen Shang-Chi or The Eternals, but added Loki in there at #15.
Also moved GOTG Vol 2 up into the Top 3, officially removing Iron Man. As always, I’m a sucker for father/son movies and this one just gets better literally every time I watch it. If not for the sort of annoying comedy bits that last too long in the second act, the movie would be perfect imo.
Still haven't seen Eternals, but I added Loki and Shang-Chi. Both landed near the bottom of my top-tier, which is still great as far as I'm concerned. As always, I need to give both a re-watch to see how I feel about them then, but I don't see either changing too much.
Every time I add something new to this list, I look at the rest to see if any changes are needed. But, it's been a while since any of the older movies have changed for me. I'd say my list is getting pretty solidified. Then again, it's been a while since I've done a full re-watch. The last time was right before Endgame dropped. Maybe a full re-watch would change my mind on some of them. Not sure I can talk my wife into it though. There are so many dang movies now. She prefers to just re-watch our favorites.
28. The Incredible Hulk 27. Iron Man 26. Iron Man 3 25. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 24. Thor 23. Doctor Strange 22. Thor: The Dark World 21. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 20. Guardians of the Galaxy 19. Ant-Man 18. Captain America: The First Avenger 17. Black Widow 16. Spider-Man: Homecoming 15. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 14. Captain Marvel 13. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 12. Loki 11. Spider-Man: Far From Home 10. Ant-Man and the Wasp 9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 8. The Avengers 7. Avengers: Age of Ultron 6. Captain America: Civil War 5. WandaVision 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
I liked Shang-Chi a lot, but not as much as you. I am itching to watch it again though. Will probably do that soon now that it's on Disney+. I could see it landing a bit higher on my ranking. I'm already questioning Loki being ahead of it, at least.
Update for No Way Home, What If, and Hawkeye. Still haven't seen Eternals.
31. The Incredible Hulk 30. Iron Man 29. Iron Man 3 28. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 27. Thor 26. Doctor Strange 25. Thor: The Dark World 24. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 23. What If…? 22. Guardians of the Galaxy 21. Ant-Man 20. Captain America: The First Avenger 19. Black Widow 18. Hawkeye 17. Spider-Man: Homecoming 16. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 15. Captain Marvel 14. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 13. Loki 12. Spider-Man: Far From Home 11. Ant-Man and the Wasp 10. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 9. The Avengers 8. Avengers: Age of Ultron 7. Captain America: Civil War 6. WandaVision 5. Spider-Man: Now Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
I was tempted to put No Way Home ahead of Endgame, Infinity War, and maybe even Winter Soldier. But, I'm going to see how it holds up after a re-watch first. I could see Loki, Shang-Chi, Black Panther, and Black Widow possibly moving spots too, I need to re-watch them soon as well. I think everything else is pretty much solidified at this point though.
Updated to include all of the 2021 content. The only thing I haven't seen so far is Eternals. Also, I'm including Disney+ shows but not the Netflix shows. It's getting to the point where it's too hard to rank these. I could probably put the middle tier in bag and randomly pick the order and be perfectly happy with the results.
-------Lower Tier------- 31. Marvel's What If - What exactly was the point of this show? It was a cool idea, but I found myself super bored watching it.
30. Thor: The Dark World - It's just a boring film. The premise makes very little sense. It feels like a very low stakes movie as well
29. Black Panther - I know I'll get roasted for this one, but I really don't like this movie. It is very cliche, and I found most of it boring. The CGI in the final battle is laughably bad. I really don't get the love for this one.
28. The Incredible Hulk - It hurts to put this one so low since I love Edward Norton. It's just a boring film with little implications on the rest of the MCU. It also suffers from the early MCU trope of the main villain having closely related powers to the hero.
27. Iron Man 2 - I know this is not a great movie. The villain is very bland. The plot is boring. It's very underwhelming in the grand scheme of the MCU. The saving grace here is the introduction of Black Widow and the greater implications in the MCU. Black Widow is my favorite Avenger (or at least she was until WandaVision), so it's fun to go back and watch this one every once in a while.
---------Middle Tier--------
26. Iron Man 3 - This is a very uneven film. I like the story arc for Tony Stark. The plot really dives deep into his personality and sets up his motivation for future MCU flims. The problem is, again, there are little to know consequences. It feels like it's own film, separated from everything that comes after it. He retires from being Iron Man...until the next movie. His iron fleet is impressive, but they break apart like cans. Iron Patriot never exists again...
25. Thor - One character saves this film...Loki. Thor is not a very good character at first. It's hard to feel anything for him. Loki, on the other hand, is a great villain. He's not evil for the sake of being evil. He has real motivations, and that helps elevate him to a much higher status than most early MCU villains.
24. Ant Man and the Wasp - I really enjoyed this one in the theater, but I feel asleep trying to rewatch it. It's just...boring. The villain is underwhelming. It is also very disconnected from the greater MCU with the exception of the final scene.
23. Ant Man - Maybe it's because I've seen it so much, but I find this one to be boring now. I used to have it higher up the list, but I'm not a big fan anymore.
22. Dr. Strange - Such a weird movie, but they made it work. I enjoyed this one, probably based on the performances more than the story.
21. Captain America: The First Avenger - I really do enjoy this film. It was a difficult task to set up Captain America for the 21st century. I never thought for a second that I would like Captain America. He's just such a dumb, old fashioned character. This movie was smart to put him in the WW2 era and have him frozen to set up current day Steve. The biggest problem with this movie is the villain. Red Skull is such a great character, but this movie wastes the potential of the character and the fantastic actor they got to play him.
20. Falcon and the Winter Soldier - I was excited for this, but it fell a bit flat for me. It was still enjoyable, but I hoped for more.
19. Captain Marvel - This one dropped a lot on my list because repeated viewings have left me a bit bored. The beginning, before they come to Earth, is particularly bad. I still do enjoy it. I really like the chemistry between Fury and Carol, and I think the Kree/Skrull storyline will be important moving forward in the MCU.
18. Spiderman: Homecoming - This has also dropped a bit over the years. It's still a great movie, and I think Tom Holland is an excellent Spiderman (my favorite so far). I think this was too low stakes for a Spiderman movie. I like that they focused on a lesser known villain than we usually see. I know they were aiming for a friendly neighborhood Spiderman still in high school. Hopefully the third film gets into more high stakes Spiderman stories.
17. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - I loved the first 2/3 of this one, but the end was a CGI fest. I also could have done without that Awkwafina chick.
16. Black Widow - I enjoyed this, but I can't put it in the high tier. It was enjoyable, but it came after we knew BW's fate. When they make prequels like this, it kind of lowers the stakes and makes it not as suspenseful. Yelena is a nice addition to the MCU though.
---------High Tier-------------
15. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - The only problem I have with this one is Ego. The rest of the movie is great. The Yondu plot is great. The characters and the comedy really make this film a fun watch.
14. Hawkeye - This gets bumped up a bit with the inclusion of Yelena and WF in the finale. Kate Bishop is a nice new character. I'm looking forward to seeing her in future shows.
13. Spiderman: Far From Home - Again, I like how they focused on a lesser known Spiderman villain. This one was a lot of fun. Admittedly, I haven't seen this one as much as the others, so it could go up or down on my list in the future.
12. Guardians of the Galaxy - This one has lost a little of it's luster for me, but it's still a great film. It's funny because I knew nothing about this before it came out and thought it was going to be so stupid.
11. Avengers: Age of Ultron - This is not at the level of the other Avengers movies, but it's still a really fun movie. I love the Hulk vs. Iron Man Hulkbuster battle, and the introduction of Wanda and Vision makes this one stand out.
10. Loki - This was so much fun. Alligator Loki, Classic Loki, President Loki.
9. Iron Man - This is how you do an origin story. It still holds up today. There are tons of classic lines from this one, and Tony's ark is one of the best in the MCU. Tony's complete ark from IM to End Game is incredible. The only character ark that comes close is Thor's, but that one still has time to develop.
8. WandaVision - Man, I loved this show. I was already loving Wanda. After End Game, with Black Widow dead, I was leaning towards Wanda as my new favorite Avenger, but this show helped solidify it.
7. Avengers: End Game - Part of this being so high is emotional reactions to certain scenes. On one hand, this would not have worked if it wasn't for the 22 films that came before it. In my opinion, it was a bit disappointing after the greatness that was Infinity War. On the other hand, it had to be incredible difficult to wrap up such a huge story. The biggest problem is it's not the same Thanos that they lost to, so it kind of takes away the emotional impact of the win. The good news is the good far outweighs my critiques, so it is pretty high up on my list.
6. The Avengers - Back when this came out, I remember thinking it was going to be stupid. Boy was I wrong. What else can be said about it. It's iconic by this point. Everything just worked.
--------Godly Thor Tier--------- 5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier - From a pure story perspective, this could be #1. It's dropped all the way to 5 because my top 4 are just incredible. I can watch this one a hundred times and never get bored.
4. Captain America: Civil War - This was so well done. You understand everybody's motivation, and it just feels so natural. Tony and Steve being on opposite sides and digging their heals in makes perfect sense. The villain using that division to his advantage makes sense. Steve protecting Bucky makes sense. It's just all so well done. It also introduces Spiderman and Black Panther, and they both steal the show. It's a great film.
3. Spiderman: No Way Home - This might be getting a bump up the list due to it being the newest and shiniest, but I LOVED this movie. I really can look past any plot holes or weirdness because of what they managed to accomplish. No spoilers here, but holy crap it was awesome.
2. Thor Ragnorok - It's amazing what a new director and new vision can accomplish. This is SO MUCH BETTER than the other two Thor films. This one was incredible
1. Avengers: Infinity War - This is easily my #1. It's action packed from beginning to end. The comedy still holds up, even after multiple viewings. The ending was the most shocking and unexpected ending of any blockbuster film in my lifetime (including Empire), and it still holds up. And Thor's entrance into Wakanda still gives me goosebumps, even after multiple viewings.
@bonham2 I feel like our lists are pretty similar, with just a few notable differences. I almost didn't even rate What If at all. It felt so weird rating it along with all of these other shows and movies, since it was animated, and hypothetical. But, at the end of the day, I did enjoy it somewhat.
> Updated to finally add The Eternals in there. Movie was pretty gosh darn bad.
Agreed. It was a way to introduce some new characters to the MCU, but the whole flashing back and forward constantly throughout the movie made this feel like a DC movie instead of an MCU movie.
I just rewatched Incredible Hulk since it was on HBO. Some really dated CGI, but other than that, it's not nearly as bad as I remember. Certainly not upper tier, but is still enjoyable. The final battle still sucks.
> I just rewatched Incredible Hulk since it was on HBO. Some really dated CGI, but
> other than that, it's not nearly as bad as I remember. Certainly not upper tier,
> but is still enjoyable. The final battle still sucks.
Yah I know it's one of my lowest-ranked movies on this list but I can't say I dislike Incredible Hulk. It was a fine movie, especially for when it released (only the second MCU movie ever), just not quite as good as the majority.
@bonham2 Imo it was fairly straight forward (and frankly kinda boring) up until the back half of today's episode, but I suppose that was somewhat the point.
As for this episode's ending...
...I believe ol' hippo lady at the end (Egyptian goddess Taweret) placed Mark/Steven in some sort of mental construct to save him from dying after being shot, or he's simply in some sort of limbo that she's now visiting him in. In ancient lore, she's the goddess of fertility and represents regeneration and rebirth. I imagine she'll be helping him out of this limbo state and I theorize it'll be by "unlocking" his third personality from the comics, Jake Lockley, likely via opening that other sarcophagus in the psych ward.
I don't know if the whole "psych ward" aesthetic was her doing to present him with a somewhat familiar setting with familiar people & iconography from his life or if that's just Mark's own mind doing it. I figure it's the latter since negative crap like ol' Ethan Hawke showed up in there too. It could also have been some sort of magic Ethan Hawke is using to trap him. Either way I imagine Taweret will have some sort of information or means of saving Mark/Steven and bringing him back to the real world.
I also think I remember Steven mentioning Taweret in an early episode, somewhat foreshadowing this happening.
Also, for a little Moon Knight/LOST connection cause you know I can't stop relating everything to LOST...
The "four toed statue" that Jacob lived in toward the end of LOST was originally a huge statue of Taweret before getting destroyed way back in the day. Being the goddess of fertility, this was some neat symbolism in regards to the fertility problems that plagued the Island's history, but I had always wondered what the significance was in pointing out that the statue only had four toes. Turns out that's the number of toes hippos have, so by pointing that out in the show they were subtly foreshadowing the nature of the Island's fertility issues. Of course, no one would know that without seeing the series all the way through or obsessing over it enough to research Egyptian gods because of a statue that shows up for like 40 seconds total, but alas.
All this despite Taweret in Moon Knight has a normal five-fingered hand haha
Haven't seen the latest episode of Moon Knight but it's not that confusing. It's just not giving you massive exposition dumps which, I assume is what the MCU usually does.
Just about every episode has at least one long dialogue scene where they give you a history lesson and explain how it’s significant in what they need to do that episode (aka dumping exposition). I dunno if we’re watching the same show. I agree it’s not that confusing, and I don’t necessarily think dumping exposition is inherently bad, but the back half of this most recent episode is the only bit that really leaves you in the dark without somebody just explaining what’s happening with dialogue.
I've really enjoyed Moon Knight so far. I like that each episode has had a very different feel than the rest. It's definitely very different than anything we've seen in the MCU so far, but I'm ok with that. Oscar Issac is killing it in his role(s). I probably wouldn't like it as much if not for him.
Added Eternals to my list. I didn't hate it as much as so many do. I thought it was ok, but still not better than most of the other MCU stuff.
32. The Incredible Hulk 31. Iron Man 30. Iron Man 3 29. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 28. Thor 27. Doctor Strange 26. Eternals 25. Thor: The Dark World 24. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 23. What If…? 22. Guardians of the Galaxy 21. Ant-Man 20. Captain America: The First Avenger 19. Black Widow 18. Hawkeye 17. Spider-Man: Homecoming 16. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 15. Captain Marvel 14. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 13. Loki 12. Spider-Man: Far From Home 11. Ant-Man and the Wasp 10. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 9. The Avengers 8. Avengers: Age of Ultron 7. Captain America: Civil War 6. WandaVision 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
It's getting harder and harder to rank things with so many shows and movies on the list.
I will agree that Oscar Isaac is killing it in the role, but I'm not enjoying the show as a whole (haven't seen yesterday's episode yet).
I will say this, I might be confused because it's not holding my attraction. I keep going on my phone, and then I force myself to watch again and I'm lost. Maybe I'm just bored instead of confused.
Updated my list to include Moon Knight having just watched the finale. My opinion on this may change over time (they all do when it comes to the MCU), but I think it solidly slots in at #22 for the time being. It was just okay in my opinion, even if Oscar Isaac puts in one of the best acting performances of the entire franchise.
Almost time for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness! I've steered pretty clear of all the trailer breakdown videos and theory videos this time around, which I had been watching pretty heavily for most of the MCU movies for a while. It was mostly due to a lack of time, but I'm ok with it. This one feels like it's going to be more enjoyable going in with as little info as possible. I can't believe Thor: Love and Thunder is coming out just 2 months later! I've been looking forward to both of these for a while. They feel like a couple of the "bigger" movies in the franchise, so it's crazy that we're getting them so close together.
Just got home from Dr. Strange, and I thought it was awesome. WAY better than the first one. It's hard to discuss anything without going into spoiler territory. I'll just say the multi-verse has led to an infinite possibilities of what they can do in the MCU. My only gripe is some of the CGI didn't look too great. With so much green screen going on, it can be hard to not get pulled out of the immersion sometimes.
Usually when I go to rank something new, I start at the top of my list (the lowest rankings) and work my way down by comparing it to each title one at a time and trying to decide which one I like more. This gets tricky though, because some of the MCU projects are quite different from each other and hard to compare. I'm finding that's definitely the case with Multiverse of Madness. I thought it was going to end up somewhere in the middle of the pack, but as I've gone down the list, I keep finding myself picking it over the next movie, over and over again, even movies that I feel like I enjoyed more. I'm not explaining it well, idk, lol. This is what I ended up with. I could definitely see it changing after a second viewing.
Oh yeah, also added Moon Knight.
34. The Incredible Hulk 33. Iron Man 32. Iron Man 3 31. Iron Man 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 30. Thor 29. Doctor Strange 28. Eternals 27. Thor: The Dark World 26. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 25. What If…? 24. Guardians of the Galaxy 23. Ant-Man 22. Captain America: The First Avenger 21. Black Widow 20. Hawkeye 19. Spider-Man: Homecoming 18. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------- 17. Captain Marvel 16. Moon Knight 15. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 14. Loki 13. Spider-Man: Far From Home 12. Ant-Man and the Wasp 11. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 10. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 9. The Avengers 8. Avengers: Age of Ultron 7. Captain America: Civil War 6. WandaVision 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
> @bonham2 I feel like our lists are pretty similar, with just a few notable differences.
> I almost didn't even rate What If at all. It felt so weird rating it along with all
> of these other shows and movies, since it was animated, and hypothetical. But, at
> the end of the day, I did enjoy it somewhat.
I agree our lists are similar, but I agree with Broccoli that your Iron Man 1 ranking is shocking. I don't think it's as great as many people make it out to be, especially over a decade and countless movies and shows afterwards, but it still holds up really well.
I watched the newest venom movie the other day. While it wasnt horrible, it just wasnt that good. It felt hollow if that makes any sense. I really liked the first one though.
@Broccoli @bonham2 I don't think Iron Man 1 is a bad movie or anything, I enjoy everything in the MCU. I just think the MCU has gotten a lot better over time. Also, I think Iron Man is at his best when he's interacting and working with the other heroes in the MCU, not so much when he's doing his own thing. Maybe I'd like it more if I had seen it when it first came out, but I was a bit late to the MCU. I don't remember the exact timing, but I think it wasn't until the first Avengers was coming out that I finally saw it.
Also realized I had Black Widow entirely too high on my list. I still thought the movie ruled for the most part but thinking retroactively, mixed with the fact that I never feel a desire to re-watch it, I realize I overrated it in a big way initially. That dropped a significant amount of spots on my list just now. Still dig it though!
36. The Incredible Hulk 35. Iron Man 34. Iron Man 3 33. Iron Man 2 32. Thor ----------------------------------------------------------------- 31. Ms. Marvel 30. Doctor Strange 29. Eternals 28. Thor: The Dark World 27. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 26. What If…? 25. Guardians of the Galaxy 24. Ant-Man 23. Captain America: The First Avenger 22. Black Widow 21. Hawkeye 20. Spider-Man: Homecoming 19. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------------------- 18. Captain Marvel 17. Moon Knight 16. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 15. Loki 14. Spider-Man: Far From Home 13. Ant-Man and the Wasp 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ----------------------------------------------------------------- 10. The Avengers 9. Avengers: Age of Ultron 8. Captain America: Civil War 7. WandaVision 6. Thor: Love and Thunder 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
I added Thor: Love and Thunder. Also, while I didn't change the original Thor's position, I did adjust the tier marker so that it falls in my bottom tier. Me and my family are finally re-watching the entire MCU. We watched Thor the other night and I enjoyed it even less than I remembered. Not enough to drop it's ranking, but it definitely belongs in my bottom tier. I'm curious to see what other changes I make as I work through this re-watch. This is my first time doing a full re-watch since shortly before Endgame, and there's a ton of new stuff since then. I think the biggest contenders to change positions in my list are Multiverse of Madness, Shang-Chi, Black Widow, and most of the shows, since I've only seen all of those once.
My top tier was getting way too big, so I finally decided to split it into two. I'm sure nobody else cares, but it helps me keep things organized! I've enjoyed everything in the MCU so far. Even the movies in my bottom tier I enjoy to some degree. I'm torn on Iron Man. People are always so surprised by how low I've ranked it. After watching it again, I still feel pretty much the same about it. I DO like it, it's a solid movie. But I would rather watch any of the movies/shows I have ranked above it. I think part of the problem is that it doesn't feel enough like a superhero movie. I can't really explain why, it just feels more like an early 2000s action movie.
They were entertaining enough for a once-watch. But I'd never bother to re-watch any of it. I find it to be simple, popcorn entertainment, and nothing more. To say I "liked them", I guess I liked them, they weren't boring. But to make a tiered list? Nah.
I've seen:
Iron Man 1, 2, Thor, Black Panther, IW, Endgame, Antman, Moon Knight, half of Dr. Who 2. I think that's it??????
@Kommie We get it, we get it, you're too cool and far too smart for MCU movies. You don't have to keep reminding us, we won't forget. You have the superior taste, this will be noted.
Some folks find ranking these things to be, get this, fun.
> @theJaw It's about time you watched Love and Thunder! Glad you liked it (almost)
> as much as me
Yah I thought it was great and honestly most of the criticisms folks throwing around as far as plot holes go can easily be explained using what's presented in the movie itself. I'm having a hard time fully understanding how folks are so down on this movie.
Like MoM, it definitely took detours off the beaten path of the "MCU movie" template, so I can understand needing time to adjust, but people are acting like it's awful or didn't make any sense when it did. I feel like phase IV, for some folks, has been the "expectations" phase. MCU has admittedly battered down a formula for these things, but I feel like any movie that has tried to be its own thing and stray from that one formula has been nitpicked to death by the internet.
I say this while acknowledging the lowest movie on my list is The Eternals, which is a good example of what I just talked about haha. But I just thought that was a bad movie, didn't have to do with any of the risks it took really.
>> @theJaw It's about time you watched Love and Thunder! Glad you liked it (almost)
>> as much as me
>
> Yah I thought it was great and honestly most of the criticisms folks throwing around
> as far as plot holes go can easily be explained using what's presented in the movie
> itself. I'm having a hard time fully understanding how folks are so down on this
> movie.
I really haven't even seen that many criticisms for it! All I see over and over again is "too funny" and "not enough Gorr". Ok, those can be valid criticisms, but what about the rest of the movie? There was still plenty more to like. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who legitimately didn't like it, and that's fine, but a lot of it seems like bandwagon hate to me.
> I really haven't even seen that many criticisms for it! All I see over and over again
> is "too funny" and "not enough Gorr". Ok, those can be valid criticisms, but what
> about the rest of the movie? There was still plenty more to like. I'm sure there
> are plenty of people out there who legitimately didn't like it, and that's fine,
> but a lot of it seems like bandwagon hate to me.
Yah some folks are pointing out how the Eternity bit could have just solved the Thanos snap situation, but they're forgetting how the plot of this movie reveals the only way to find Eternity and how that way wasn't known to the larger MCU until the events of this movie. Stuff like that. But yah, it's mostly the comedy and lack of Gorr.
But I have a fellow MCU fanboy pal and we've been going back-and-forth all morning about it. He chalks it up as a complete miss and seemingly can't find a good thing to say about it, which just baffles me. But I suppose that's how opinions work after all haha
For me, the movie is so silly that it works lol. There are serious and sad parts to justify the plot, but in the end is just Thor trying to navigate through life and changes. A lot of tragedy in his life tbh.
My only complaint would be Zeus, but even that satire of a character fits into all the silliness.
After re-watching all 3 Iron Man movies again, I'm updating the order I had them ranked. Also adding I Am Groot!
37. I Am Groot! 36. The Incredible Hulk 35. Iron Man 3 34. Iron Man 2 33. Iron Man 32. Thor ----------------------------------------------------------------- 31. Ms. Marvel 30. Doctor Strange 29. Eternals 28. Thor: The Dark World 27. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 26. What If...? 25. Guardians of the Galaxy 24. Ant-Man 23. Captain America: The First Avenger 22. Black Widow 21. Hawkeye 20. Spider-Man: Homecoming 19. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------------------- 18. Captain Marvel 17. Moon Knight 16. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 15. Loki 14. Spider-Man: Far From Home 13. Ant-Man and the Wasp 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ----------------------------------------------------------------- 10. The Avengers 9. Avengers: Age of Ultron 8. Captain America: Civil War 7. WandaVision 6. Thor: Love and Thunder 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
3 is definitely my least favorite. That movie is such a mess, I don't know how I ever had it ranked above the other two. I'm not sure why 2 gets such a bad rap, I think it's fine. 1 and 2 are actually really close for me, but I have to put 1 just slightly ahead.
I Am Groot was fine for cute/funny shorts, but it's hard to rank it above anything else here since nothing significant happens.
I'm strongly considering dropping Ms Marvel below all 3 Iron Man movies. Pretty sure I enjoyed them all more than that show. I'm still thinking about it though.
More to come, as me and the family continue our re-watch. Thor: The Dark World is up next.
Iron Man 3? Yeah. Overall I hated it. Even the armor design was bad. I'm not that big of a Shane Black fan, and Iron Man displayed all the reasons why, especially the kid co-partner.
Mind you, Predator (first one) and Lethal Weapon (first one) are the exceptions, but all his recent stuff has been pretty bad.
I actually liked the kid in IM3 a lot. They easily could have overused him, but I felt like he was in the film just the right amount. My kids really loved all of the scenes with him and Iron Man together. They laughed a lot at Iron Man being so hard on him.
In my opinion, Shang-Chi redeemed Trevor Slattery (the Mandarin actor) while also providing a much more interesting version of Mandarin that we were all waiting for. Just one of the many things that movie did right. Not that Slattery was different in Shang-Chi, but it's all about presentation and he wasn't presented as something to swerve the audience in Shang-Chi, so it ultimately worked a lot better. But I agree, the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3 is what soured me entirely on that movie the first time I saw it. Just felt like a waste of an iconic villain on top of Ben Kingsley's acting chops. After re-watching it a time or two since its theater release, it's grown on me a tiny bit but still in my lower tier for sure. I enjoy it more as a Bond-style MCU movie than a full fledged Iron Man superhero movie (considering he spends most of the movie out of the suit).
Would still watch Iron Man 3 than Iron Man 2 any day of the week though. That movie is trash on so many levels, and also a waste of some pretty good actors playing some pretty good characters.
As far as I Am Groot! goes, I'm not going to count that in my rankings. They were cute little shorts but without much substance and I feel like that'd be the equivalent of counting every MCU One Shot that used to appear on the DVD releases. I feel the same way about What If? to an extent, and doubt I'll put that show on my list either.
> Some of the shows are going to start to have multiple seasons. I'm trying to decide
> if I'll rank each season separately, or all together.
That's a tough one. The argument can be made that additional seasons are just "sequels" to the first season, so it could be looked at as being like ranking each film sequel (which we obv do separate from each other). But at the same time, a TV show's purpose is usually to tell one long, coherent story.
I guess in terms of TV, most folks' opinions seem to sour or sweeten on the OVERALL show depending on how the seasons progress. Look at a show like GOT... even some long-time fans dislike the entire thing now solely due to the later seasons. They tend not to give the great earlier seasons the same allowance they once had, so I think I'm probably leaning toward judging the shows and their seasons as just one entity. Just gonna have to adjust their placement a bunch.
32. What If...? 31. I Am Groot! 30. Black Panther 29. Iron Man 2 28. Black Widow 27. The Incredible Hulk 26. Iron Man 3
----------- No Real Order Here -------------
25. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 24. Avengers: Age of Ultron 23. Captain America: The First Avenger 22. Thor: The Dark World 21. Iron Man 20. Captain America: Civil War 19. Thor 18. Guardians of the Galaxy 17. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 16. Spider-Man: Far From Home 15. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 14. Captain Marvel 13. Avengers: Endgame 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 11. Avengers: Infinity War
----------- The Good Stuff! -------------
10. WandaVision 9. Spider-Man: No Way Home 8. Loki 7. The Avengers 6. Ant-Man 5. Spider-Man: Homecoming 4. Doctor Strange
----------- The Best Stuff -------------
3. Thor: Ragnorok 2. Ant-Man and the Wasp 1. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
----------- On My List to Finish/Start -------------
Thor: Love and Thunder Ms. Marvel Eternals Moon Knight Hawkeye
Wow, that's the highest I've ever seen Ant-Man and the Wasp ranked. I mean, I really like the movie, much more than most it seems. But #2 is really high!
Reopened this for those who have seen GOTG3. Think the last time I updated my list was for Love and Thunder, so I’ve got quite a bit to add eventually. The lady and I are watching from Love and Thunder-on cause that’s where she left off (other than the GOTG Christmas Special). I’ll update my list once we watch Quantumania and then again whenever we see GOTG3.
So far, I’m still really enjoying Love and Thunder, but it’ll honestly probably move down my rankings when I edit my list. I may have been a tad over-defensive of it when it released due to the overwhelming negativity surrounding it, though I do still feel a lot of the criticism is unwarranted.
EDIT: Nevermind, still loved it. It'll definitely move down a bit, but I really enjoy the movie except for the Zeus scene. That was a little much, but whatev, not too bad.
I know it’s usually a free for all in this thread, spoiler-wise, but if yall could use tags for GOTG3 for your ol’ pal Jaw, I’d appreciate it. If not, I’ll just avoid the GOTG discussion, no biggy.
The bigger this list gets, the harder it's getting to rank new stuff. I loved GotG V3 and was already thinking of it as "one of the best"...but once I looked at my list and actually tried to fit it in somewhere, it's so hard to put it above so many movies that I've loved for so long and have stood the test of time. I definitely think it deserves to be in my top tier, but I'm not 100% set on where I placed it. That could definitely change with a re-watch (or three).
43. I Am Groot! 42. The Incredible Hulk 41. Ms. Marvel 40. Eternals 39. Iron Man 3 38. Iron Man 2 37. Iron Man 36. Thor ----------------------------------------------------------------- 35. Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special 34. Thor: The Dark World 33. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 32. What If…? 31. Werewolf by Night 30. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law 29. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 28. Doctor Strange 27. Guardians of the Galaxy 26. Captain America: The First Avenger 25. Black Widow 24. Hawkeye 23. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------------------- 22. Ant-Man 21. Spider-Man: Homecoming 20. Captain Marvel 19. Moon Knight 18. Loki 17. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 16. Spider-Man: Far From Home 15. Ant-Man and the Wasp 14. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania 13. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ----------------------------------------------------------------- 11. The Avengers 10. Avengers: Age of Ultron 9. Thor: Love and Thunder 8. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 7. Captain America: Civil War 6. WandaVision 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
> So far, I’m still really enjoying Love and Thunder, but it’ll honestly probably
> move down my rankings when I edit my list. I may have been a tad over-defensive of
> it when it released due to the overwhelming negativity surrounding it, though I do
> still feel a lot of the criticism is unwarranted.
>
> EDIT: Nevermind, still loved it. It'll definitely move down a bit, but I really enjoy
> the movie except for the Zeus scene. That was a little much, but whatev, not too
> bad.
I'm still baffled by the hate this movie continues to get. I understand some of the criticisms (even if I don't agree with most of them), but even if people are right about all of those criticisms, it still isn't as bad as they make it out to be. There's still plenty of good there to enjoy.
It's standing out to me more than ever after seeing GotG V3 (no spoilers for this first point). One of the main criticisms of L&T is too much humor, especially when it undercuts serious moments. GotG V3 does this just as much!
Also, one of the biggest criticisms of Quantumania (GotG V3 spoiler incoming)
is that nobody died so there were no stakes. Well nobody died in GotG V3 either, and I've yet to see a single complaint about that!
It just goes to show that if an MCU movie is good enough as a whole, people will overlook anything. But as soon as one of these movies isn't one of the best ever, they'll come up with every criticism possible for it, exaggerate them to no end, and convince themselves (and many others) that it was the worst movie ever.
>> So far, I’m still really enjoying Love and Thunder, but it’ll honestly probably
>> move down my rankings when I edit my list. I may have been a tad over-defensive
> of
>> it when it released due to the overwhelming negativity surrounding it, though
> I do
>> still feel a lot of the criticism is unwarranted.
>>
>> EDIT: Nevermind, still loved it. It'll definitely move down a bit, but I really
> enjoy
>> the movie except for the Zeus scene. That was a little much, but whatev, not too
>> bad.
>
> I'm still baffled by the hate this movie continues to get. I understand some of the
> criticisms (even if I don't agree with most of them), but even if people are right
> about all of those criticisms, it still isn't as bad as they make it out to be. There's
> still plenty of good there to enjoy.
>
> It's standing out to me more than ever after seeing GotG V3 (no spoilers for this
> first point). One of the main criticisms of L&T is too much humor, especially when
> it undercuts serious moments. GotG V3 does this just as much!
>
> Also, one of the biggest criticisms of Quantumania
> ...
>
> It just goes to show that if an MCU movie is good enough as a whole, people will
> overlook anything. But as soon as one of these movies isn't one of the best ever,
> they'll come up with every criticism possible for it, exaggerate them to no end,
> and convince themselves (and many others) that it was the worst movie ever.
IF you watch Thor: L&T again, watch it as if Korg is telling the story to a bunch of kids (like in the beginning) the movie makes more sense humor wise.. Since Korg wasn't there for some parts, he made up those parts of the story, thus adding more humor to it..
> Also, one of the biggest criticisms of Quantumania (GotG V3 spoiler incoming)
>
They almost got me there at the end, ngl.
About the L&T comparison, I see what you mean. But I think the humor in GotG was a lot better than in Thor. Maybe because the cast has always been silly and it just fits better. I don't hate L&T, but it really is a trip of over-the-topness, lol. I agree though, some people just complain for the sake of it.
I thought the humor was great in both GotG3 and L&T.
People love Ragnarok's humor but then hate Love & Thunder's. Personally, I think the humor is pretty similar in the two movies, both in quantity and type.
(Sorry for the essay, I sometimes embararss myself with these type ups lol) My second time through for Love and Thunder did help me realize where the disconnect for some people came from. I still really enjoy the movie and I personally didn't mind the humor (some of it was too much, like the axe/hammer love triangle and those fudging goats), but overall I was fine with it.
That said, while I agree with @Scott that there was just as much of the same type of comedy as Ragnarok, the subject matter between both movies is vastly different and that definitely creates a tonal unbalance. Ragnarok was ALL sci-fi/fantasy madness, so having that humor there accentuated that. It was about an evil witch sister trying to reclaim her homeland at its core - it was a story that humor wouldn't necessarily detract from given its gigantic fantasy themes. However, the core theme of Love and Thunder was "dealing with grief and loss", as shown through the Gorr and Jane characters. Gorr lost his child and went mad because of it, Jane was trying to run away from her ultimate fate via her new Thor persona, and eventually Thor had to deal with the loss of Jane. Eventually, the theme of "rebirth" becomes evident, with Thor taking on a new fatherly role with Gorr's daughter.
So the actual thematic tissue of Love and Thunder is FAR heavier than that of Ragnarok, which admittedly made the humor feel really out of place at times. Some emotional beats were undercut by a joke, whereas there were really no "heavy" beats in Ragnarok that a joke didn't just elevate. The death of Odin and appearance of Hela were given time to breathe to feel truly dramatic before another humorous part was presented, and there were less lulls like that in Love and Thunder until the ending sequence in front of Eternity.
And then there are just the sort of baffling story decisions - like how Valkyrie knew of Eternity but never mentioned it during Endgame, when a magic wish could have solved that entire movie's main issue. Or Gorr being yet another underdeveloped MCU villain despite Bale's great performance when there was so much dramatic material they could have worked with. Or how Thor could suddenly grant his powers to other people when that has never been established before (and also would have come in handy in other situations).
The issues that people had are definitely there, but folks then felt the need to take it further and create issues in their own head to justify HATING it when the movie just didn't deserve that. Folks claiming Thor was too goofy disregarded the reasons for him acting that way, despite Korg explaining it right at the beginning (his loss lead him to become slightly detached), and also disregarded the fact that he eventually realized he should snap out of it. By the end of the movie, Thor was back to being THOR, a bit whimsical but also emotionally layered the way he was previously. To be honest, it reminds me of how some folks react to Luke in The Last Jedi. They only remember curmudgeon hermit Luke because they were upset he wasn't just stoic ROTJ Luke, and disregard the fact that, by the end of that movie, he has returned to the hero's journey - emotionally-layered and pulling off the most heroic crap we've ever seen a character in the franchise do.
So anyway yah, TL;DR - while I still REALLY enjoyed Love and Thunder (and the lady did too), I can definitely understand folks' displeasure with the movie MUCH clearer after a re-watch while still acknowledging some very unwarranted criticisms.
Finally saw Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, loved it and it really felt like the official start of the Kang saga (even though we have seen him in previous shows/movies).
Rereading some discourse above about Iron Man 3 I have to disagree with alot of the takes. Iron Man 3 really does a great job of establishing the affect of war on Tony Stark. This directly leads to the character development and influences his decisions in subsequent MCU movies, namely Captain America Civil War. I didn't appreciate 3 until I went back and was watching all the movies over again.
Overall the only movie I didn't enjoy much at all is Ms Marvel and that is because the character is too Supermanish for me. Way too powerful in a cast of characters that are powerful but have their flaws. I don't particularly find Brie Larson to be a great actress either so that doesn't help.
One thing I like in all the movies and shows after the blip is what is happening in the background of all these stories. Civil discourse caused by the disappearance and then reappearance of folks. I remember seeing it introduced in Falcon and Winter soldier and it continues in Quantumania where they discuss all the homeless because people had taken over the homes of those that disappeared. It really makes you feel like you are in a fully fleshed out world. I think alot of the Kang saga is going to take place on places other than Earth so it will be interesting to see how this affects the background story.
My buddy watched Quantumania for the first time last night and he feels it's "almost unwatchable". Ant Man and The Wasp is one of his favorite MCU movies (somehow) and he loves the first Ant Man, but he feels Quantumania is probably his least favorite MCU movie at this point. One of his main issues was how Hank Pym, a guy who had been studying the quantum realm for his entire life, finally got there and barely cared - opting to get drunk immediately instead of bask in this discovery. I can see that criticism honestly.
I need to rewatch Quantumania because I admittedly watched it under some... sea-faring circumstances... so I've yet to see it in full HD as intended. Even so, I definitely got a whiff of the Star Wars prequels as far as the use of CG goes. Even in lesser quality, it looked like just about everything was shot on green screen and could have easily just been an animated movie by the point they reached. I didn't HATE the movie when I watched it, but I was also very underwhelmed, so I'm interested to see how I feel when the lady and I get around to watching it for real.
Many of the CGI heavy movies look much worse at home. Admittedly, they don't look great on the big screen either, but they look much more cartoonish on most big screen TVs.
You were correct, so I just updated it. I'm retiring the short reviews that I'd usually post because I had a bunch to catch up on. So now it's just a list like everyone else haha
Moved GOTG Vol 2 to my #1 spot, meaning Ragnarok moved to #2 and Winter Soldier to #3. GOTG Vol 3 lands at #4 for now, but I could see that one climbing up when I re-watch it. It's my lady's #1 easy though.
I shuffled a couple movies in the middle that I've re-watched, or watched reactions for that made me reassess my opinion.
Love & Thunder WAS at #10 after my first watch, but it took a steep drop after my second watch and landed at #23. I still really like it but the flaws were a bit more obvious upon a re-watch.
As for other new entries that I hadn't ranked yet: She-Hulk lands at #31, Wakanda Forever lands at #24, & Quantumania at #34.
I just want to reiterate that I still at the very least LIKE most, if not all, of these movies. So something like Wakanda Forever sitting at #24, or even Quantumania landing in the "bottom" tier, doesn't necessarily mean I disliked the movie in any major way. It just means that I dig the movies I ranked higher a bit better, obviously haha. There's just so much MCU at this point, the higher the numbers on the ranking list get, the worse it makes the movie seem at first glance but that's totally not my intention.
Updated my list. Finished Secret Invasion, it lands at #29 with a 7.5/10.
I liked it enough, glad to see Fury get the main role and explore his personal life a little more. I think the concepts introduced are really cool and open the doors for some larger events within the MCU. I also really enjoyed the performances, both from the actors but also from the action coordinators... the violence in this show, while some may find gratuitous at times, was a breath of fresh air for me.
That said, I do feel like there may have been a lack of "butter" to the "toast" so to speak, in that it all just seemed very dry and missing the big set pieces that come to be expected from the MCU. Under different circumstances, I think that could be cool, but I wasn't entirely into the way it was executed in this show. It also felt like a decent majority of the show was retreading information that we already had, and for a 6 episodes series, that sort of thing can be a big problem. I thought the finale, like many MCU TV finales, seemed a bit rushed and unsatisfying. I could have used a bit more of that type of "super" action spread throughout the show if they were going to end partially on that note. And the way the main story was wrapped up so easily within one half hour was a little lame, but I'm glad that the over-arching issue of the skrulls is still firmly in play if the MCU wants to explore it further.
And not to beat a dead horse, but going back to what I mentioned in the trailers thread, Secret Invasion definitely suffered from some of that over-the-top internet backlash that the MCU is receiving right now. While it was a little dry, it still kept me engaged enough and it was absolutely still a "good" show. I mean it was a drama starring Samuel L Jackson, Don Cheadle and Olivia Colman, there's no real way to get a "bad" result from that imo. Was it GREAT? Not at all. But was it truly "bad"? Absolutely not. There's still an inherent quality to the MCU, even in its lower-ranked offerings, that some folks just can't seem to acknowledge anymore these days.
We finished re-watching Moon Knight last night. We didn't show the kids originally, but decided they were old enough this time. They really enjoyed it, and it held up great for me, even on a re-watch.
I read a theory that stated that since Rhodey was freed wearing a hospital gown, and needed assistance walking, that he was abducted while he was hospitalized and partially paralyzed after the events of Captain America Civil War. This means he missed the events of the Thanos battles and has no idea his best friend is dead.
@back4more That would be really lame considering...
...Rhodey was right there with Pepper & Peter Parker when Tony died in Endgame. So we'd have to believe that a skrull was SO into being a spy that he'd have what was a very real emotional reaction to seeing Tony die in front of him. That'd not only be silly on the surface level, but also be really stupid to remove any element of emotion from Endgame. Hopefully it's explained that he was just at the hospital post-Endgame to get a check up on his legs or something when he was kidnapped. If they were going to reveal a hero had been a skrull pre-Endgame, they'd have needed to pull a character who didn't have a deep-seeded emotional moment like that and have it make sense.
I actually reassessed my opinion of Secret Invasion and have come to the realization that I really didn't dig it as much as I initially thought. It moved way way down from #29 to #38 and I adjusted its 7.5/10 to a 6/10... meaning only Iron Man 2 and The Eternals rank lower than it for me. I still don't think it's NEARLY as bad as the entire internet is making it out to be, and I reiterate that I generally LIKE all these movies/shows, but I do think I was a little quick to try to counter the hyperbolic negative reactions at first as opposed to just give my genuine assessment.
And it's weird, because I really DID enjoy it for the most part. I thought episodes 1-5 were pretty interesting but the finale nosedives my opinion on it. It just wasn't very good. The plot was tied up way too quickly in one half hour. It ended up making the rest of the season feel like just a solid first act for a larger story that it never intended to deliver. And while the "act III CGI superhero battle" should be expected these days, the one in Secret Invasion felt particularly shoehorned in considering that sort of thing really wasn't the point or vibe of the show.
What it ultimately boils down to is that I enjoy the actual INFORMATION we got in episodes 1-5 regarding Fury's backstory and the skrulls... but it definitely needed to be explored more and expanded upon. It would have been a lot better to SEE what's discussed in those episodes as opposed to just hear about them in conversation, and I feel a longer show or a series of movies would have allowed them to delve into that stuff and really fill it out. As it stands, it felt like they were setting us up to show us more, but ultimately never did.
I found this yubetube video that goes in to detail on this going back to Civil War, and then there was even a comment pinned that states the Secret Invasion series director, Ali Selim, confirmed that the abduction was back around Civil War.....
Watching folks react to WandaVision on YouTube. Man, I miss that series and just the feeling I got watching it. The mystery, the reveals, the character exploration, the emotion, and of course the sitcom throwbacks. I think it’s still probably the most truly original thing the MCU has put out. A part of me does wish that more of the MCU TV output was somehow in a similar vein but I know that would have just diminished the effects of WandaVision to some extent.
Starting this comic tonight. Have been wanting to give it a go since WandaVision was announced.
Finished GotG3 and Secret Invasion. Absolutely loved GotG 3, liked Secret Invasion. GotG 3 might be a top 5 MCU for me. I was never big on the franchise but still enjoyed it. 3 def left me wanting more from each of the characters, especially Bautista who has done incredibly well leaning into that role. If we never get another movie with the original core characters though at least they got a great sendoff. Although what was up with that post credit scene
Although The Flash is a DC character, something about him to me says Marvel. I'm not sure what though. I was watching scenes from the TV show yesterday, and started thinking about this.
I'm trying to think if there's something in common between Marvel characters and The Flash.
My top three are Avengers: Infinity War, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and Thor: Ragnarok.
My bottom three are Ant Man & The Wasp: Quantumania, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, and The Eternals.
My "I know they're seriously flawed but I still can't help but love them" three are Captain America: Civil War, Spider-Man: No Way Home, and Avengers: Endgame.
I couldn't possibly rate them all sequentially. It'd make my head explode.
Looking over my ranking list, I actually think I prefer The Marvels to a lot of the lower tiered movies. For as messy as that movie is (especially that first act), it's still more entertaining than a lot of the other stuff. Tough to rank.
Haven't watched it yet, but does it move along the mulitverse at all? I feel like one of the problems with this saga is the pacing seems really slow and they haven introduced so many new characters.
Loki was fantastic and I felt had a satisfying ending. I assume that will be the last of that show which is a bummer because the chemistry between Owen Wilson and Tom Hiddleston is fantastic.
@beavis there is some multiverse stuff (mainly toward the end) but don't go into it expecting any huge revelations regarding the multiverse or anything like that. It's very much not a multiverse centric story.
Agreed about Loki. It was great and I need more Loki/Mobius. I have to imagine there will be more of that at SOME point, if not via more of the show.
> Looking over my ranking list, I actually think I prefer The Marvels to a lot of the
> lower tiered movies. For as messy as that movie is (especially that first act), it's
> still more entertaining than a lot of the other stuff. Tough to rank.
I don't think enough people are hammering home exactly how messy that first act is. I was really feeling like a sucker sitting there until things slowed down and started making sense.
I gave the movie a hard time as I was watching it because of how ridiculous some of it was, but after the fact, I think the really nutty stuff were some of my favorite segments.
> I don't think enough people are hammering home exactly how messy that first act is.
> I was really feeling like a sucker sitting there until things slowed down and started
> making sense.
>
> I gave the movie a hard time as I was watching it because of how ridiculous some
> of it was, but after the fact, I think the really nutty stuff were some of my favorite
> segments.
>
Yah for sure. I'm wondering like... was this a bad movie or did I just convince myself it was because of HOW wildly uneven that first act was. First impressions do make an impact, and that first act was hard to sit through at times, but then the movie somehow wrapped it all together very nearly by the end and made sense of it all. I feel like I maybe need to rewatch it before I'm ready to give my honest opinion/ranking of it.
Where in god's name is @Scott -- gotta know what he thought of The Marvels and Loki.
I really enjoyed The Marvels and think it's yet another MCU entry that doesn't deserve the hate/low scores that it's getting. Kamala was definitely the star of the show, she was great! I'm glad to see her in another project. I liked her character in Ms Marvel, but not the show.
I don't think I ever commented on Secret Invasion. I didn't hate it as much as most seemed to, but I didn't like it much either. I feel like it had a lot of potential, but they just didn't deliver.
I'm behind on Loki S2. We watched the first 3 episodes but I've just been crazy busy and have had a lot of personal stuff going on. I'm hoping to finish it soon though.
I'm having a lot of trouble ranking The Marvels. I've been saying it every time something new comes out, but the larger this list gets, the more difficult it gets to rank each new entry. What I used to do is start at the bottom of my list and compare the latest entry to it. If I liked the latest entry more, I'd move on to the next and repeat. But, as this list gets bigger and bigger, I keep finding situations where I may not like the new entry better than something on my list, but I do like it better than something else that's ranked even higher! I think it's because there's such a diverse lineup of entries now, so it's hard to compare them all. That said, this is my latest ranking with The Marvels and Secret Invasion added:
45. I Am Groot! 44. The Incredible Hulk 43. Secret Invasion 42. Ms. Marvel 41. Eternals 40. Iron Man 3 39. Iron Man 2 38. Iron Man 37. Thor ----------------------------------------------------------------- 36. Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special 35. Thor: The Dark World 34. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 33. What If…? 32. Werewolf by Night 31. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law 30. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 29. Doctor Strange 28. Guardians of the Galaxy 27. Captain America: The First Avenger 26. Black Widow 25. Hawkeye 24. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------------------- 23. Ant-Man 22. The Marvels 21. Spider-Man: Homecoming 20. Captain Marvel 19. Moon Knight 18. Loki 17. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 16. Spider-Man: Far From Home 15. Ant-Man and the Wasp 14. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania 13. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 ----------------------------------------------------------------- 11. The Avengers 10. Avengers: Age of Ultron 9. Thor: Love and Thunder 8. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 7. Captain America: Civil War 6. WandaVision 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
Out of curiosity, I counted how many Phase 4/5 projects are in my top two tiers. There are 10 out of 23. That's not bad, and lines up fairly well with how I feel about the MCU since Endgame.
> I think that’s the first time I’ve noticed you had Iron Man movies so low. Not
> a fan of those?
It's weird, I really like the character Tony Stark / Iron Man, I just don't care for his solo movies very much. I prefer him in the ensemble movies, that's where he really shines for me.
> Also, I didn't have any problem with the first act. What was so "messy" about it?
>
In my opinion -- it's just that, traditionally, a first act introduces characters and sets up what's to come. With The Marvels, audiences were more-or-less expected to use Ms. Marvel and WandaVision as the "first act" for the movie (the new heroes and their abilities, etc), which resulted in the movie's actual first act being presented at break-neck speed and really choppy -- never really taking a step back to breathe and educate the audience on what was going on. So while I obviously understood the issue at hand, it was just jarring to have everything happening at once. The characters never being properly "introduced" despite there being several & the constant setting changes just took a second to get used to -- on top of the fact that we were only just now catching back up with Captain Marvel and what she's been up to since Endgame.
So yah, it was just messy and wild. A bit easier for us MCU vets to swallow, but just from a narrative POV, it was a bit all over the place. The movie did calm down and get easier to follow once the core group got together, but even then I don't feel the story that followed was super strong or anything. I'd have to see it again, but I think it'd probably slot in right above She-Hulk for me to take #32.
Also, I will say that having Secret Invasion so closely followed by The Marvels did illustrate how inconsistent the MCU has been getting. I'm obviously a defender of the MCU and none of my criticisms stem from the toxic criticisms like diversity or anything like that -- but seeing Nick Fury's portrayal in Secret Invasion vs. how he's portrayed in The Marvels... it's like he's an entirely different character. Which maybe could have been fine if there was any time to let the character rest off-screen... but both projects came out this year, so that, too, was pretty jarring. I'm glad the MCU is starting to slow down again and really think about their schedule moving forward, because it really does need some reevaluation in that regard.
>> I think that’s the first time I’ve noticed you had Iron Man movies so low.
> Not
>> a fan of those?
>
> It's weird, I really like the character Tony Stark / Iron Man, I just don't care
> for his solo movies very much. I prefer him in the ensemble movies, that's where
> he really shines for me.
I can see that. I think Iron Man 3 is a great movie from the perspective of the affect of being a "super hero" has on a man who isn't super. I actually think IM3 contributes alot to Tony's decision in Civil War as well.
> I don't think I ever commented on Secret Invasion. I didn't hate it as much as most
> seemed to, but I didn't like it much either. I feel like it had a lot of potential,
> but they just didn't deliver.
My two biggest problems with Secret Invasion:
- Playing the "Are they a Skrull?" game gets exhausting really quickly.
- Nick Fury is an angry-looking, one-eyed black dude wearing an expensive trenchcoat and a Hagrid beard; and as Kamala Khan demonstrates in The Marvels ("You're Nick Fury!!"), he's still managed to accumulate a celebrity quotient. There's no way he can sneak around the world undetected as successfully as he does.
> - Playing the "Are they a Skrull?" game gets exhausting really quickly.
Tbh I don't think they played up the intrigue nearly as much as they could have, and they absolutely didn't pay off any of that intrigue haha
I think "are they a skrull" could have worked on a larger scale and been pretty cool, but keeping it to like... one character who fudged Nick Fury's day up for a little while was pretty lame.
> - Nick Fury is an angry-looking, one-eyed black dude wearing an expensive trenchcoat
> and a Hagrid beard; and as Kamala Khan demonstrates in The Marvels ("You're Nick
> Fury!!"), he's still managed to accumulate a celebrity quotient. There's no way
> he can sneak around the world undetected as successfully as he does.
This goes back to the inconsistency problem I was talking about. Outside of just character mannerisms, the integrity of the actual character wavers from project to project. In Secret Invasion, he's still that undercover agent Nick Fury. In The Marvels, he's the literal CHARACTER Nick Fury -- that we, the audience, know and loves... which isn't really how he's ever portrayed otherwise. I get that Kamala is supposed to be a fangirl and all that... but I don't know how or why she'd ever know about Nick Fury. It just doesn't track and they desperately need to calm it down a bit.
They must not have high hopes for the trial at the end of the month, and I don't really blame them. Without spoiling, Loki Season 2 does a fine job of wrapping Kang up to where he could return if they want him to, or they can be done with him if they have to be. I think they're done with him.
Really hope that's not the case. I didn't feel like that about Kang at all, I think his story is just beginning (one of my only complaints is that his story seems to be "just beginning" every new show or tv show). I'm 100% fine with them recasting him as I don't think Majors is synonymous with the role, at least in my eyes.
I dug Kang too and his story was just getting going, technically-speaking, but that Loki season finale makes it very easy to close the book on him if they need to. I’d say recast too, but it’d be a little weird after the Quantumania post credits scene revealed that just about every variant looks exactly the same haha. If there was one character that would be difficult to recast, it’d be Kang for that reason alone. But we’ll see what they end up doing.
Finished Loki 2 the other day. I have mixed feelings. The first 4 episodes were all over the place, I feel like they had a lot going on, but everything was resolved pretty quickly. Maybe this was the intention and maybe it ties well with the finale, but I was feeling kinda weird watching it. The last 2 episodes are great though: enjoyed the imagery, acting, and plot.
In general, I liked the first season more, but this is a good follow-up. It leaves room for future stuff while closing most of the story. I hope to see more Owen Wilson as Mobius in the future.
Apparently begs Jabbari via texts to not to go to a hospital for fear of her injury being investigated, considers himself a monster and threatens to kill himself over whatever transpired and openly wonders if he deserves love.
Welp, that sucks. Assuming Doctor Doom is on deck.
If they want to do Kang more, they can just get another actor since he’s a multiversal character. Casuals probably won’t realize and/or care and the dedicated will likely buy it long as they implement it well. That said, I would be fine if they move on from the character.
I’d usually agree but Kang is the literal one character the MCU shot a post-credits scene for that shows an endless army of his variants all played by Jonathan Majors. They technically COULD do what you’re suggesting, but that’d make that Ant-man scene even more awkward haha
I think it’d be in Marvel’s best interest to just wash their hands of the character at this point and move on. Or just put Renslayer in that role if they still want to do the Kang Dynasty story — reveal she’s to Kang what Sylvie is to Loki, OR just that she wants to continue his purpose. That way you can still tie the Kang Dynasty movie into what has come prior, while still capitalizing on an established character with a great actor… it just wouldn’t be Kang.
Yah overall both Loki seasons weren't great imo, but both finales ruled and the S2 finale is probably my favorite episode of MCU TV (obv not counting Daredevil). Although there are like 2 or 3 from WandaVision that rival it.
Jonathan Majors found guilty of assault and harassment. I don't care if Marvel recasts him or not. Even though Kang was punked by a small group of B-listers and Ant-Man, I know he has potential to be a fierce villain, but I'd prefer they bounce Kand for Victor von Doom altogether.
> Jonathan Majors found guilty of assault and harassment. I don't care if Marvel recasts
> him or not. Even though Kang was punked by a small group of B-listers and Ant-Man,
> I know he has potential to be a fierce villain, but I'd prefer they bounce Kand for
> Victor von Doom altogether.
Sucks but expected after all the recent evidence. At first, I misinterpreted that video of her chasing him down the street, thinking it absolved him -- but the first shot of it is him clearly lifting her into the car and smashing her head off the car. Could have been an accident, but the rest of the evidence was pretty damning. And we need to remember that the public wouldn't have nearly as much evidence as the jury, so it is what it is.
To be fair, the Kang we saw got bested by Ant-man and some B-listers -- but he was honestly never the most powerful Kang even if he WAS "the Conqueror." We know He Who Remains and other Kang variants were able to best him in the past -- so there was plenty of potential left for another Kang to be introduced as a true threat. I feel like the MCU was going for a slow build... get the audience's expectations down then have a different Kang swoop in to kill someone important or something.
OH well. Either recast Kang with LaKeith Stanfield or, yah, just move onto Doom.
They could even keep Kang with Marvel tv stuff at this point since they don’t do as hot as the movies. I’m fine with whatever as long as it’s done well.
I was really hoping JM wouldn't turn out to be a piece of crap. I was really liking him as Kang. They could easily re-cast, but I don't know that I'll like anyone else as much as I was liking him. I don't want them to just abandon Kang completely though.
I've said before, but Marvel does need to think more about not doing a one and done with some of their baddies. I also think they should think about doing a bad guy lead movie to shake things up. Sucks they offed Killmonger and Gorr the God Butcher as Jordan and Bale blew those roles out of the water and overshadowed every other person in their respective movies.
> I've said before, but Marvel does need to think more about not doing a one and done
> with some of their baddies. I also think they should think about doing a bad guy
> lead movie to shake things up. Sucks they offed Killmonger and Gorr the God Butcher
> as Jordan and Bale blew those roles out of the water and overshadowed every other
> person in their respective movies.
Yeah... one of the best things to come of the multiverse saga is the potential to bring some of these fan favorite villains back. Obviously not the same versions, but we've seen plenty examples of very SIMILAR versions of other characters existing across the multiverse. MCU has yet to really commit to bringing anyone back that way so far, but I woulnd't be against seeing Killmonger or Gorr (or any number of villains) return and then just be stuck as mainstays in the 616 universe whenever it all inevitably gets consolidated back to one timeline.
I say "inevitably" just then because I figured that's what Secret Wars was eventually going to do but having now seen the end of Loki Season 2, I wonder if that's still the plan or if they're going to just commit to numerous timelines existing side-by-side.
Yea I could see them doing that. If they continue with Secret Wars I think it would be better to bring back a whole bunch and then a few survive and continue in the main storyline. I def think Killmonger needs to be number one with him potentially having a redemption and taking on the Black Panther moniker.
So I rewatched Thor: Love and Thunder yesterday and came to a realization.
One of the major criticisms I see folks give this movie is the fact that Thor passes "his" powers to the kids at the end, with the question always being "why didn't he just do that for other people in all the other MCU movies -- like Endgame?"
Welp, it admittedly took this rewatch for me to realize this, but the movie makes it very obvious what's happening here. During the "war speech" Thor gives the kids, he very clearly presents Zeus' lightning bolt before promising them the "power of Thor." Thor saying "power of Thor" was not meant to be taken literally, it was meant to be taken as him simply giving them godlike powers "for a limited time" (his exact words). The way he holds the lightning bolt makes it very blatant that he is transferring ITS powers to the kids, not his own. This is made even more obvious due to the gold lightning the kids wield in the scene -- not the blue lightning attributed to Thor's powers. The gold is the exact same color as the lightning bolt.
So, TL;DR, he never passed the kids "the power of Thor," he passed them the power of Zeus' lightning bolt -- which is why it was only for a limited time and is also why the lightning bolt was so important in the first place. This all could have been explained better in the movie for sure, but it seems like lots of folks (myself included) missed the clear context in that scene.
Yeah, I didn't catch it the first time either, but that's definitely what happened. Every time people make that criticism on Reddit, somebody points this out, but it doesn't stop them from repeating it over and over again.
Anyone have any MCU-related article concepts they'd like to see? If you let me know, I'll research the idea and possibly pitch it as an article for CBR. Having writer's block at the moment.
