General

We wanted to move last summer but weren't able to. There just weren't many houses going on the market at all, and when one did, the competition was insane. I've heard of so many houses selling for 10, 20, 30+ thousand over asking price, it's crazy. The interest rates were better at least, but the market was still crazy. We were hoping to try again this summer, but I just don't know with these rates. We do want to move eventually, but we'd be fine sticking it out a couple more years at our current home if not for our annoying neighbor that moved in almost a year after us. We're just so sick of living next to this guy.

My wife is a realtor - things are insane now. There won't be a crash, but things absolutely will have to come down - people are pricing themselves out of their range during their searches.

Things are already slowing down a bit with the interest rates skyrocketing, but they will inevitably also come down - slower than it went up.

According to Zillow, the value of my house went up $120K since I bought it 3 years ago.

I just sold my house in California. Received 7 offers following our open house. All offers way above my asking price. I’m not thrilled about interest rates and feel a bit dumb for even considering it… but it is what it is. I will fall back on my VA to get a competitive rate all things considered.

Just pay landscapers

We closed on our house late 2020, when interest rate was at its lowest. So we lucked out I guess. But yea the market is crazy and with interest rate so high, buyers are reluctant or just completely shut out.

My friend lost her partner in December. They paid $150 for their home in 2000. She listed the home last month for $300. A sale for $370. was pended 12 days later. People are out of their damn minds. Their house is nice, the lot is nice and in a nice area on a dead end road, but $370 for their home crazy.

The prices $ rates will come down eventually. They always do.


"Millennials feel screwed by the housing market after a series of economic disasters—82% of them have major regrets over their new homes"

https://fortune.com/2022/02/09/millennials-feel-sc...

Lunar wrote:

haha, if we buy this, we won't be able to afford landscapers!

My sister-in-law is a realtor around here, and she's constantly getting ~$25-$50k+ bids above ask, just ... bonkers, when they're already over valued.

My gut says crap will calm down because this isn't sustainable, especially with everything else going on in the world (fudge you stock market!). Yet, there's such a rush of people moving away from big cities because they can work remotely and Northeast Ohio is honestly an amazing spot for some kickass homes/lands.

Ugh, this sucks, I need out of this damn house. My kids have no land to play, we can't put in a pool, our driveway is tiny and on a hill. I clearly have my wants/needs, but I want a place where my kids and go outside and have fun. Having woods/water is key ...

What is the reason for your move? Do you just need more space?

That property is beautiful but at nearly 5.5k sq feet, its pretty huge. Unless you really need that much space, maybe you could find something a bit smaller/cheaper. I'd be hesitant to drop that kind of cash on a house given how high prices are right now. You may spend 625k and then the bubble pops and it's only worth 550k and then you're in the hole equity wise. However with that said, if the area is good it doesn't seem THAT crazy of a price given the size and how nice the house/property looks.

Bought my place early 2019 and one of the more recent sales in the neighborhood went for more than $300k what we paid. It's nuts.

That's a beautiful property @MrBean. That would go for about $2mil+ in San Diego.

Bought in June 2020, right before the boom. House was vacant for over a month, and I got it below asking. Already appreciated over 25%.

Looking to move to Tennessee some time soon, work is just insanely busy. We have stopped lending to all states west of the Mississippi, jacked up our rates, and suspended programs. The applications keep coming. Getting a storage unit in the next month or so to store all my stuff so I can start the selling process. Homes tend to only stay listed a few days before they are sold. Boeing moving nearby will definitely help.

I work from home, no need to live in such an expensive area. The yard sales and thrift stores are nice, and the area is nice, but I would rather not pay income tax, have a nicer house, and a lower cost of living.

sa330206 wrote:

We definitely need a lot more space both in house, and outside. 2.5 and 5 year told that have nowhere good to play. My kids can't even easily ride their bike outside, no water/pool, small yard. I want to give them much more. That and we have a lot of 'stuff', my house is feeling too cramped (2500 sq ft + 1000 sq ft basement). I want to be at least at 4000sq ft going forward.

Crazy enough, that price, is pretty spot on for the house regardless of the market. There's so many houses surrounding and nearby, with less land, and less house, that are more expensive. If that land was tip top shape, fully finished basement, and the deck didn't need some help ... this should be selling for ~$800k compared to so many others. My sister-in-law feels confident that this is actually under priced (yet, still on market after a year --- because of the upkeep required on the yard more than likely). So the price is actually quite good for what it is.

Still, I'm in that same boat of the bubble popping and being in the hole.

YET ... if you use Zillow, look at the Zestimate (which is usually pretty damn spot on), look at the past 10 years. It doesn't look like it's spiking because of the market, vs. natural appreciation.

Porksta wrote:

Yeah, we debate about packing up and picking up an appt. Just so hard with the two kids ... but, it's truly the smart move. Contingent bidding right now, is very difficult.

MrBean wrote:

I definitely feel you on the outdoor space. For both of our houses we've bought since we had kids, it was important to me to have a big (and flat!) yard with lots of room for playing and sports. Your indoor needs are insane though! We're also a family of 4, with about 2000 sq ft, and we're only starting to feel slightly cramped as the kids are approaching their teens. That was the main reason for us wanting to move within a few years anyway, but our annoying neighbor has expedited it. Anyway, I don't know how you're feeling cramped with 3500 sq ft! Maybe some downsizing/de-cluttering is in order It would certainly make moving easier.

@Scott Well ... we definitely have too much clutter. We haven't fully committed to a 3rd kid or not, and we have a TON (legit way too much) "stuff" that we're hanging on to because we haven't decided. I think we're definitely more in the camp of not having a 3rd, more so because we're getting too old. My wife will be 39 this year and that's possibly danger zone for challenges. Not to mention, I'm hitting 40 in two weeks and don't really want to go through baby phase again .... yet, I really would love to have another kid If I'm being honest.

Still, I like big open spaces. My video game crap in itself is a massive problem, consuming far too much space.

If we had better storage areas, and could drop a lot of the old kid stuff, we'd definitely be better with ~3,000sq ft. Yet, I'll always go for more as I'd like to (in time) get fun stuff like pinball, pool table, air hockey, etc. etc. I'd love to have a massive basement with a big open floor plan.

I just looked at the house you posted vs general thoughts before - unless you're stuck in the past it's very out of date...there's a ton of money to be put into that home, it's dripping with the previous owner's touches.

The property is huge though, I know you mentioned the maintenance - which seems like a nightmare unless you're super into lawn/garden and have lots of time.

If this is at the top of your budget - I'd suggest you look elsewhere unless you absolutely love everything about it and have no concerns with anything going wrong with the house (for extra cost).

SublimeFan wrote:

Yeah, my wife says the same ... I'm largely fine with it as-is, but she's already calling out lots of updates. Still, the two expansions, were done in high quality, the interior/exterior, all very nice, better than most modern homes.

ha, I hate cutting my 1/4 acre now! This would be a massive change, but honestly, I feel like I want it. More outdoor time, more physical work, and may actually for the first time in my life, get/sustain some color in my skin! The grass isn't all that bad, it's the INSANE amount of beds, and the perimeter ... tons of work to be done (way more than you can see in the pictures, it's pretty ridiculous to be honest).

The dog of it is, ~$600k, nothing even remotely this big (both house and outside). Reality is, there's a lot of money to be spent here. That deck is gonna need replaced, we'd need to do some massive landscapping, put up a fence, etc. etc.

We'll probably end up walking away, and waiting. Just really loved it when everything else we looked at, not even close in comparison (for size and all the outside has to offer).

I really liked this, wife did not: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/80-Willow-Wood-...
This house we both loved, but the yard is tiny, and all hill ... https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/...

SublimeFan wrote:

I must just be out of touch, it doesn't look bad to me. The interior reminds me of a fancy home from the 90's. I guess it's out of date a bit but it certainly looks livable to me. I don't love the basement 80's/90's wood look but if it's dry then I could easily live with that. The porch/patio is amazing and it looks like a well built home. I'm surprised it hasn't sold at that price, maybe there is something wrong with it not indicated in the listing.

Those other two houses look wonderful (IMO, throughout of course). Minimal work you need to do for either - also, I know nothing about the OH market in particular so comparisons would be rough.

I know you mentioned having young kids, but do these neighborhoods have parks? You talked about having enough space for them - and even the yard on the smaller lot seems like it's a good enough size to play in (BUT you also mentioned it's all hill, that's a killer. It makes our backyard nearly useless aside from our deck / one landing with a trampoline on the entire thing). Parks make things way easier and can save you money on building your own :)

There's nothing in the disclosure. I've been there twice. I can't find really anything wrong sans typical wear and tear (largely outside - the deck and the pavers). The basement is very dry. The carpet needs some help ... but legit doesn't feel like anything wrong with it at all. There are some older elements of the look, and that electric stove sucks (seriously, who 'likes' electric?), but so many other cool little things like the wine cooler, a master bathroom with a washer dryer + fridge (odd), the water fountains, dual fire pits, electric run through multiple parts of the yard. They were clearly entertainers at some point.

What's not pictured is the massive 4 car garage, and massive walk in attic above the garage (not finished), and a nearly finished basement bathroom, a gigantic walk-in master closet, and a whole separate work bench area with the utilities.

SublimeFan wrote:

Yah, we have a fair amount of parks all around us, we try to frequent them. This is where I'm torn between land, and development style living. I swore I'd never live in a development, and I've been in one for 13 years. New(er) developments, are amazing for kids, especially with wood/water access. Sadly our development, was built in 2002-2004, so most of the kids here are older. I would sacrifice land if it had nearby (walkable) access to woods and water, ideally with other kids nearby.

Damn Bean, both houses are nice.. That amount of $$ in NJ won't even get you something half as big.. I like house #2.

Yeah, I just don't get it ... these prices are so much higher than they used to be; however, still vastly cheaper than so many other areas. I have some West Coast friends, and I'm just baffled at how much they pay, when we all make similar incomes. This is why places like us, are being bombarded by new out of state folks looking to gain bigger houses/land at a much cheaper price, now that many can work remotely.

MrBean wrote:

Parks are nice to visit occasionally, especially if you have no other option but to move into a house with little/no yard space, but nothing beats the convenience of being able to just walk out into your yard and play, IMO. Not to mention the privacy.

We built a house through last year and did a ton of the work ourselves. Our market has slowed down a bit from the recent insanity, but our house is easily worth twice what we have in it right now. Sometimes I'm tempted to sell.

yeah housing market is nuts, car market is nuts, everything is pretty nuts. Houses around here going for way above asking, there was one in north Houston that got talked about a bit for going 80k over market value. How's that even work with a bank anyway? If the value is 300k, is the buyer paying cash fort he rest so the bank isn't too far upside down on a loan?

Is there any truth to tech workers with lots of cash buying up houses without negotiating/wanting to just get the deal done?

akfa wrote:
Borrower has to pay any difference between appraisal and sales price. Banks will only give you a loan up to the home's value. If an appraisal says a home is worth $100,000, but you are paying $180,000 that extra $80,000 is on you.

Yes

My parents wanted to buy a house in the Poconos as a vacation home 2 years ago.. The realtor was telling them that people were paying 20-30k over asking value SIGHT UNSEEN!!! They were basically buying the house without even seeing it first.. That's very risky in that climate with all the wooded areas and moisture, but paying over asking value for a house you never even step foot in is just insane.

Places like Zillow were buying up tons of crap to try and manipulate the market in their favor. I thought it had kinda simmered down, but I guess not.

Didn't I read somewhere Zillow was trying to sell off all the homes they had bought? Maybe that was Redfin.

I feel like I’m seeing just a little softening in the market compared with a year ago. I think the interest rate hikes should definitely have an effect. Stock market is down, inflation is up; people only have so many dollars to spend. No way these prices can be sustained (at least I hope not). I don’t think they’re going back to pre-pandemic levels but I’ll be surprised if they stay high with rates climbing.

Not to charge this topic with politics but I read something interesting the other day about how if Roe is overturned it might drive some people out of red states which would cool down the market in these traditionally lower COL states. Will be interesting to see how that develops in the next 6-12 months.

My sister and brother in law bought a Duplex in Queens for nearly 400K last year. It's maybe 1000 square feet. 2 beds 1 bath. They locked in at under 3 percent. The rates were substantially low and it's not a surprise that they've gone up.

The housing market is crazy here. And many are paying straight up cash for million dollar homes in my neighborhood.

Most of my block changed.hands in the past few years. Mainly Koreans and Chinese people bought most of my block.

If you want/need to move then do it. But don't bother buying an overpriced place, just rent for a year at a time until the market re-adjusts back to being realistic. That's what we're planning on doing before this next school year...probably. Or we'll just stay put another year, not sure yet.

Yes, you're not paying towards the house but it'll be either the same monthly payment or cheaper than a mortgage. Plus someone else has to fix all the issues while prices stabilize without putting you in any risk.

metsfan718 wrote:

I take it that's worth mentioning because they all like the Yankees?

I've been in the market for 3 years now. It was hard before and even harder now. I've been hoping interest rates go up so I have less competition. I have a large down payment and my mortgage would probably be $30-$50k for most houses. I'd be paying it back inside of a year or as soon as my current house sells, which I own outright. I'm on the lower end of the market for a narrow area I want to move to. Anything I buy would likely need to be remodeled and that's fine. I've had chances lately but the properties were in such disrepair I've passed on them.

Also that house linked in the first post... 600k here gets you lakefront property or a house with multiple acres and a stable.

Half the houses above 300k where I'm looking come with "she-sheds".

Anxiouz wrote:

Lol. It's worth mentioning because they are normally the ones who are able to buy a 1.5 million dollar house in my area with straight up cash. It's expanding into long island now as well. The Asian population in NYC has more than doubled in not too long of a time span as a result of that.

We were tempted to sell our house and move closer to my store (I have a 20-25 minute commute and my husband is going to stay virtual post covid.) Even though our house has gained nearly 200k in value (yes that is not a typo) we know we'd immediately lose any of that gain in buying another home as all homes are inflated. That's even if we could find one. So instead we're staying put. We love our school and our neighborhood. Instead we're putting cash into the house to fix it up to be what we want and need.

I'm dropping 50k on a new composite deck with enclosure/electric and ceiling fan. Another 10k for windows and a sliding glass door. After we're caught up on that we're going to look into remodeling the kitchen because our kitchen sucks and makes no sense. We have a ton of open empty area for another table and like 2 tiny counters to work on. There's always a traffic jam at the pantry/fridge/laundry room door and our home is so huge there's no need for a tight area like that.
So yeah we've resigned to staying put for a while and loving our home. Plus we don't wanna lose our 2.5% interest rate at this point

I was starting to seriously consider selling our house now while the market is so high and then just renting until things calm down. But, I checked rental prices and they're pretty ridiculous. It's probably not worth it, especially with no guarantee of how long until things really calm down.

Scott wrote:

Then if you're stuck in a lease that's another issue.
One of my employees hit the rent jackpot last month. Found a nice newer apartment, under priced, NO DEPOSIT and they let her move in with just a letter from me stating she was a good employee and makes X amount of money. Her first place too, so she's pretty happy. I wonder if someone was murdered there? lol

Our home value doubled in the last 5 years- but doesn’t matter because we can’t afford to get into anything else nearby. Our taxes have gone way up because of it so mortgage escrow is short and I end up paying about 100$ month more annually. Seems cool that it’s worth more but it kind of sucks. I need to discuss with a financial advisor soon.

This thread reminds me that I should probably sell a rental house or two off...

Anyone want to move to Michigan? I'll make you a deal...

Also, I have a 2009 Hyundai Santa Fe that I was hoping to get $4000 for. Just ran it at KBB and they made an instant cash offer of $6800! It's insane!

Yup, that's the problem with rising home values...you may be able to sell your home for way more than you paid for it...but everyone else's value rose too.

We refinanced Dec 2020 and got a 2.5% rate on a 30-year fixed on our primary (down from a 3.125% 10/1 ARM) and a 3.125% on a 20-year fixed on our rental property (down from 4.125% on a 30-year fixed).

We have a nice home (3200+ sqft) but the lot is small and the house is 3 floors (no basement) so it's not as open. But the prices are ridiculous here in the Portland metro area in Oregon.

Yeah, I was looking at getting a new car but I need one without a sunroof. Cars are already tough to get, much less ones they don't make too many of. Gave up and will probably just wait until next year's models.

The more we look into it, the more we are leaning towards waiting. I have a hard time giving up our 3.2% and having to double our mortgage knowing that we could be in a massive negative equity situation in a year. Yet it's hard not to debate... What if it only goes up!

MrBean wrote:

My first home this happened to me. Bought in 2006 and moved after residency- 3 years- during the collapse. Had to short sell it and got a loan / mortgage to get out. Took about 8 years to pay out of it.

Feeb wrote:

Oofff, that sucks!

Yeah we sold our old house and lost like 50k (bought two months before market collapsed, was underwater ever since). Now, if we sell our current house (which I wont) we could make 150k lol

All I have to say is Bean listen to your wife. You don't exactly have the personality for sound financial decisions... unless I'm mistaken.

John wrote:

CML

John wrote:

lol reminds me in 2020 I was going to sell my 2018 Renegade and get something cheap because I needed some fast cash. I was offered basically what I owed on it, 14k. Now trade in at the dealership they're offering me 23-25k. Of course you can't find a damn thing to buy and anything you order is 2-6 months out at minimum. Still I'm gonna probably trade up. Once I put a stroller in it plus two car seats, I can't get anything else in it.

Even if you do buy something you will have to bring it back later to get the chip installed.

Porksta wrote:

It greatly depends. I think Chevy is the only main one having issues and they're selling vehicles without heated/vented seats and steering wheels, some other features. I am not seeing that with Hyundai, Jeep or Kia. However I have heard that thanks to the Telluride Kia can't get caught up and are refusing orders on that vehicle through next year. I was inches away from buying a Palisade but am holding out for the new Jeep Cherokee 4XE and will likely decide between that and a full sized L. Of course it could be these other makes aren't openly advertising reduced features due to chip shortage either. I guess I'll find out.

KCPenguins wrote:

Hahaha, whaaaaaat? My DOGE investment is doing oh so well....

sinnie wrote:
That may vary state to state because when I was looking for a home years ago a realtor told us that it's legal to break a lease if you are purchasing a home. I'm sure you have to give proper notice and I don't know what that would be.

BlueJava wrote:

Could be true. I know it wasn't the case here. We were stuck in a situation a few years back where we had to decide to renew a year lease or get out. Our home in another state was in the process of being sold and we just kind of bought our current house because it was what was available where we wanted to be. I just didn't want to be locked into a lease for a year.

BlueJava wrote:

I don't know of any state where that is true/accurate. Sounds like Realtor bull.

In my experience, leases can be broken, but there is usually a fee of some sort to do so. It can be quite a bit though. One lease I had said I basically on the hook for the rent until a new renter moved in and I had to pay for all marketing costs.

SwiftJAB wrote:

Yeah, that's what I had to deal with here in MO years ago. I was offered a buy out option. My security deposit plus one additional months rent. I took it. That damn place was PITA. Residents throughout the building were awful.

Some states have a law that DV victims must be released from their lease. I've never heard of the release based on a home purchase though.

SwiftJAB wrote:

Well, yes, everything can be "broken" if you pay the agreed fees. That's not really "breaking" a lease. It is following the clauses of the lease.

In most states, if a lease does not specify an "out", then you are responsible for the remainder of the lease until it is re-rented, including marketing costs. Like you've stated here. Basically, you are responsible for leaving early until the landlord is "made whole."

-John...

We're lucky, my MIL has a place she uses as an investement propery in Bothell Wa so we are going to move and rent from her for the next few years (maybe take it permenantly). She will make a little more charging us less rent and cutting out the realtor fees. So we are selling out place here in Apex, NC and if I was buying my house right now in apex I wouldn't be able to afford it. When we bought in 2018 it was 374k. We meet with the realtor the other day and she asked what we were looking or and we said 550k. She laughed and said she sold a house around the corner with the same dimensions as ours for 650k. Told us our insides are better so we could be looking at 700k. The IT industry is moving into the Raliegh area like crazy and the amount of money being thrown around is ridiculous.

Put an offer in on a house today! Wish me luck… have my fingers crossed.

Good luck, we looked ourselves but everything is crazy. I bought my house in 2010, its a 2/2.5 bedroom townhouse ~1200 square feet. I got it for $167k, person i had bought it from paid $300k.

Current Zillow has it priced around $450k, basically triple what I paid. I can't imagine what people who are looking for a first time home and don't have the capital are going thru.

We decided to wait. Hopefully the market is better next summer.

Market might be better next summer but interest rates are going to be up and if the economy crashes it might be harder to even get a loan. Scary times buying. I'm concerned about car loan shopping

loztdogs wrote:

address?

I’m going to speculate the market for houses <500-600k are not going to change much in price. I’m betting people who get priced out of even higher-priced homes will fill demand for lower-priced homes as interest rates rise.

Man, 15 acres with a badass lake... The house isn't the best but wow I want that land -

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7755-Ravenna-Rd...

Then there's this fantastic house, lots of land, but appears to be very hilly https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/2fonrsyq

Ugh, wanted to stop looking but these apps keep notifying me!

That place looks great, love the lake! We're hoping to get more land when we do move. Put more distance between us and our neighbors.

I lived and worked in fair lawn for a few years.

I plan on going for less grass. I'm at about 1.25 acres now. I'd rather have 3/4 to 1 acre that I can setup a Husqvarna automower to take care of the open spots. Then small lawnmower the rest.

I live in PR and Ive been browsing for a while now and I can say we have the same problem here.

People are even paying stupid prices for bank reposessed houses way above asking price. Its crazy.

My house is worth ~900k +/- 50k, according to zillow and redfin. I owe $14Xk. It's time to sell.

I put in notice at work today, going to finish the work on it over the next couple of months and who knows, I'm close enough to Seattle I could get a bidding war. But even if things start going down, $850k easy, but in a wild world I could see it going $1.1M+.

After taxes, fees, still walking away with over half a million, best case I could walk away with upwards of like $750k.

Plan is to then start a business. Which business depends on how much capital I raise selling. Garage door installer in case crap really hits the fan. CNC-based wood goods manufacturer is mid range. Earth moving company is if I sell for a crap ton.

Short term I'll live with my parents once I sell / have it listed, willing to move cross country after that, though. In large parts of the country $400k can still get you an old Victorian mansion with a giant basement that could easily fit a work shop. Or converted schools or churches could make amazing places to live.

What I will likely be able to get in Washington:
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/23500193_zpi...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/44352-Geraldine...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/200-S-Ash-Ave-W...

I'd be willing to live those places, but if I look nationally I could end up somewhere like:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/205-W-State-St-...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/98-100-N-Broad-...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/109-W-Macon-St-...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1405-M-St-Bedfo...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/133-Maple-St-Je...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1222-Millington...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3744-E-Ramsey-A...

etc. etc.
I'll probably stay local to Washington but I'm having to consider other places... real estate is so fudgeed on the coasts.

Our offer was accepted! Wooooohooooo!

Ready or not Montana, here we come….

https://imgur.com/a/nyYiMdh

Nice. Congrats!

kevolones wrote:

Thank you!

Indeed! Congrats!

And, Chad, that sounds great! Congrats to you also! And good luck!

Nice. Good job and grats to y’all. Nice places.

Awesome! Best of luck with the closing and move!

John wrote:

COVID has taught me I just can't do the whole working for the man thing anymore. I've wanted to start a business for years, it's time to do it.

Just stupid.

We saw a house yesterday, first day open for viewing. Maybe 20 people saw it. Listed at $550k, sold same day for $710k.

We're not moving, haha.

Sounds like the home was listed way under market to bring in more interest in the home.

SwiftJAB wrote:

Depends on the local market still. Homes here are being listed over appraisal and getting 50-100k over that. People are trying to get in before rates go up even more. It's all crazy.. the time to house swap is gone. Gotta wait things out at this point. Another terrible point is, because it sold for over 700 and might only be worth 500, they won't get a mortgage on that and need to bring whatever excess to even close the loan. Though I know some shady banks will appraise a home right at the sale price to get it done. Happened with our last house.

One day on the market. We were first scheduled to view it tommorow morning. Just got notified our appointment is cancelled, sold to a cash buyer, well over asking, sight unseen.

Son of a dog. We were legit excited for this one. Fudge this market.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2988-Harris-Rd-...

Yeah, if I had known how much money I could've taken out of my 401K just to put down for a deposit on a home loan, instead of focusing on having a new job/career, I would have taken the money and put it towards a house of my own instead of the education, but I feel like this education is going to be worth it and I may end up having better home buying opportunities down the road.

Who knows, maybe I'll end up getting my "castle" I've dreamed of...

We got lucky in the last housing crisis. Nabbed a foreclosure at 30% of it's value.

My wife and I have been in the market since December last year and just closed yesterday. Most of our earlier offers were 30-40k over asking with full appraisal gaps and we were still losing. With the rate hikes, we ended up getting our home for 15k under asking. Feels so fucking good to not have to stress about this anymore.

I barely read into the whole buying up foreclosures and sheriff's auctions stuff, but it's to my understanding you need to have cash up front for them... I also don't like them because I think I read a LOT of them don't let you see what you're buying. Yet, I've had family members tell me to look into those options....

@d3vanj congrats!

HybridCRoW wrote:

I can confirm that this is risky and, for most, not a good solution. We bought one on the courthouse steps once due to unpaid property taxes. In my state, after this sale, they have 6 months to "redeem" the property by paying us what we paid plus a tiny amount of interest. They paid it on the last day.

And, yes, like you said, you generally need the total amount as cash-in-hand. And are often bought without being able to go inside and look. And, let's face it, people letting their house go to foreclosure for an unpaid mortgage or unpaid property taxes -- probably aren't taking the best care of it anyhow.

Also, with the market as it is, even foreclosures have gone for crazy money. Much more than they are worth.

Long story short... Family members telling you to look into those options likely have no idea what they are talking about.

If you are a first time home buyer, check to see if your town or state offers any first time home buyer assistance. These programs are typically for people with lower incomes, but it doesn't hurt to spend a couple hours looking into what assistance might be available to you.

If you live out in the country, look to see if your town qualifies for a USDA loan - they have no down payment.

SwiftJAB wrote:

I can assure you I spoke w/ someone at a well known Credit Union near me about this.. The whole "First time home buyer" thing isn't a thing anymore. I mean it IS a thing, but basically the gist I got from the response was that it's not a thing anymore because practically anyone can get it now.

I'm sure there was something I may not be remembering or misunderstood, but the one thing I know I remember him saying was that it doesn't matter anymore if you're a first time home buyer.

Not sure what the banker was referring to, but several cities within San Diego offer buying assistance to first time home buyers in the form of a low interest loan towards a down payment. Certain restrictions are placed on the home, like it can't be rented out for 10 years, and the loan payments can be deferred until the home is sold or refinanced.

I have no idea either... like I said, it's the gist of what I got from the email conversations. Maybe he's referring to my income level, credit history, etc...

I don't know. It just seemed like every time I tried to buy my own home so I could get out of rising rent, it always come back to as some stupid thing... like this time they said I needed $10-$15k saved for a downpayment... before that it was a mixture of my credit score and my student loan debt.

I decided I was tired of working the job I had for the crap wage I was making despite how well I did my job and how long I was there for, and decided to do the CCNA program I'm almost finished to get into cyber security, start a new career where I actually get paid my worth and have plenty of growth opportunities. I should then be easily able to afford rent even if it goes up again w/o thinking I can't knock off my student loans quicker. Also being single, I've sort of come to terms that it's pointless for me to buy my own home.

razeak wrote:

We did the same thing

Scott wrote:

Not quite the same, but I got my current 2/2.5 `1200 SF townhouse for around $160k when the previous owners paid $300k. I know its worth over 300k now. The market is crazy and its going to crash again soon.

It has to as people can't afford anything.

While do suspect there will be a dip in housing prices over the next two-three years, it's unlikely we'll see the massive drop like we saw 11-12 years ago unless we see a large jump in unemployment and a shrinking amount of available jobs. Especially in the Tech sector where people were moving out of state but keeping their high salaries. This would be an indicator that we could see many foreclosures/short sales in the years to follow and there be a large influx of available homes to purchase, driving down home prices.

Basically, until there is a surplus of available homes, prices are going to stay pretty high. Interest rates will help drive prices down, but cash buyers don't care about interest rates. If you live in a town that has a large rental business, it may be prime for investors to buy up properties and turn them into rentals.

brian9824 wrote:

We bought our previous house in early 2009. The market wasn't at its absolute worst then, but it was pretty close. The house was built in 2005 and sold for $215k originally. We bought it for $80k. We ended up selling it in 2019 because we wanted to move back to our home state. We sold it for $165k and only owed around $66k on it, so we were able to put a sizeable down-payment on our new home, and it was a pretty big upgrade from the previous house. I'm still amazed and thankful for how it all worked out.

I just sold my house in ca and moved to Montana. I owed 221k when I sold it for 552k… talk about crazy. I would never have paid that much for my old house.

My friend in rural Indiana bought his house just a couple years ago for $133k. Thanks to this silly market, he just listed it for $307k. I doubt I'll be able to get my dream home for a long, long time if this is how the market will be. I refuse to pay $230k where I live for some small, run-down homes in bad areas.

Problem is buying another. Our house is worth double but with inflation that’s not real. Every house is worth much more than it was a few years back.

HybridCRoW wrote:


I purchased directly from the bank that had foreclosed.

So, we should clarify some things with foreclosures. When a property is foreclosure, it usually goes up for sale "on the courthouse steps." People submit bids -- often closed bids with their maximum amount. The bank also usually submits a bit -- often the amount that is owed. So, sometimes, deals can be had here -- but they are risky.

In most cases, no one actually bids against the bank -- or the bank wins anyhow because so much is owed. The bank then becomes the owner of the property. Eventually, they then list it for sale through more traditional means -- usually using a Realtor that they use for all of their foreclosures. When you buy there, you can often still get a deal -- but it is a much less risky situation (and inspections and such are often allowed -- and you can go in and see it, of course, because the bank already had to go through evicting anyone that stayed once they became the final owner).

Does “the bank” ever not own a property? Serious question.

Feeb wrote:

Yes when the mortgage is paid off.

Or at any point during the time the borrower makes their payments.

The bank never owns the property. The bank has a lien on the building and land due to loaning you the money. If you stop paying them, they have the right to seize the property as collateral to basically repay their loan to you.

Assuming your question meant does the bank ever not have an interest on your property, it's when you pay them back in full.

If you really did mean when do they not own property, they rarely ever own property. Banks don't want to own property. If they have to they'll take ownership as a form of repayment, but its really one of their last resorts.

Well, since we were talking about foreclosures here... The bank does often own them during that time after they have taken them back while they are listed for sale through more normal means. So, we have some people above who bought their house from a bank.

But, otherwise, yes, I agree. Banks don't own them when we're paying a mortgage on them even. They just have some rights tied to them. :)

It's a great time to sell, but an absolutely awful time to buy. If you are okay going from a house to an apartment, now is a good time to sell.

On the flip side, if you're looking to downsize, or upsize, the buyer's market is awful. What used to be negotiations to lower the total cost, are now bidding wars to see who is willing to pay the most for said home.

Our area in the northeast is a nightmare.

I think NPR just said this morning that the apartment rental availability is 1/4th of 1%. Studio apartments being rented for what a two or three bedroom goes for. There is zero availability for anything - companies are buying up apartment complexes and jacking the rent up by as much as a thousand bucks.

And forget houses. Average price right now is like 450k.

The term "starter homes" don't exist any more. That phrase has been wiped off the planet.

What a fudging mess.

I'm looking at homes in the range of 300k to 350k with people tossing 100k+ over asking in cash. I was at a open house recently where a couple brought the actual cash with them. The realtor said "haha we don't accept motion picture cash" followed by "holy crap this is real" and kicked us all out.

ryanflucas wrote:

Haha wow, was it in a briefcase?

We bought our home for $190k nine years ago, sold it for $320k last month. It was listed for 4 days, and the first couple who walked through made an offer the next day for our asking price. They got 6.75% interest (for reference - we refinanced last year for just 2.75% )

Part of me said "WE ASKED FOR TOO LITTLE!!!"...but my GF says oh well, we got what we wanted. Problem for me is that our $320k was what our realitor recommended. I wonder if they went low just to get really quick sales?

6.75? They must have had really crapty credit. That's an insane rate.

Porksta wrote:

I'm not sure...they put down 10% in cash I think, plus $5k in escrow hand money....so I really don't think they struggle financially. I think that's just what is happening in the market right now.

MrBean wrote:
An attache chase is maybe the only acceptable method to pull that sort of stunt.

I closed on my house June 10 and I had a 4.6 interest (my credit is 815 for reference) and I had to buy the rate down. We listed our house at 507k and the sold it for 552k that’s with 4 offers on the table. The people that bought my house removed ALL contingencies. Kinda why we chose them.

Admiral wrote:


You get the final say at the end of the day. You didn’t have to list it at $320K if you didn’t want to just because that’s what your realtor suggested.

My property management company want to rent out our rental property at $3000 after the first tenant moved out after being there for 2 years. They were paying $2725. I said list it at $3500 and lower it to $3300 if it doesn’t rent out in 2 weeks. They had 3 applications in the first week it was listed for rent.

Admiral wrote:

But now what? Downgrade to a crappy apartment?

After three years you can requalify as a first time home buyer!

Admiral wrote:

I'm in the opposite category, realtor talked me into putting house on market for $650k. I didn't think it would get that much and wanted to start at 600 but let her do it. Over the last month we have lowered it to 590 and nothing (but we have had more views, saves, and scheduled viewings). I wish we had started at 600 originally and we would have probably got alot more traction.

We are also in a weird pricing point I don't know what to do about. I really regret going with the realtor we did. I could tell she thought this place was going to sell itself and in my opinion put little thought or work into selling it. Now that it has been a month I'm getting updates every other day from her about what she is doing to drum up interest. Wish that was there in the beginning. Hell, the biggest selling point of this neighborhood was the pool and the close (less than half a mile) proximity to schools and a huge recreation area and it wasn't even mentioned in the listing.

Finishing my house up for sale is taking a bit longer than expected. Master bathroom is nearly finished and is looking great. Still need paint, trim, toilet installed, but that's easy compared to the tiling and shower door.

https://imgur.com/a/gL1Jhyb

About 1/4 of the way packed / thrown away / sold stuff. Trying to think if I want to sell my kitchen table. I don't particularly like it, but its big and has 8 good chairs. But its boring. I could keep the chairs and build my own table...

Getting a quote to sheetrock my shop and texture my shop. I will paint. Then I need to install like a pergo floor in there that roughly matches the rest of the house. Build better stairs for garage, probably just cover in pergo. Install trim, new light fixtures. Need to redo a small part of the roof on my out building (the overhangs). Need to paint out building. Need to paint exterior trim. Need to install interior trim in hallway, 1 bedroom, and living room. Need to paint trim in kitchen, living room. Then just needs a thorough clean and I'm ready to sell.

Neighbor 5 houses down sold for $930k, same size, bedroom, bathroom count. They have a much nicer yard but same size. But over all comparable home. That was closed in mid-July. 3 houses down closed for $750k, 500 sqft smaller, similar yard to mine (just nothing special). I'm hoping on $850k but willing to be happy with $800k.

Chad wrote:

You’re in Seattle area I think you said? I wish I had bought into that area after school. Got a nice offer but was scared off by the 300k house prices. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Yeah I'm 15 minutes of down town. I bought my place for $222k on 2/22/2011. it was the cheapest 2 bath stand alone home in my area since at least 2008 (that's all the further back redfin would show). Total piece of crap. Replaced the siding, windows, roof, had to do a full tuck point on the chimney (close to the Puget Sound), tore down 5 walls, built 4 new walls, had a structural beam installed. Hallway bathroom replaced everything except the bathtub. Master bath replaced everything. High efficiency furnace, made the central heat run to all of the house (previously didn't go to master bedroom or master bath or where is now kitchen, those were part of an addition. Upgraded wiring in 2/3 of the house. New front door, new back door, added a nice knotty pine soffit to carport instead of painted plywood. New gates. Fair bit of yard maintenance and border definition, only a few plants. Overall I've put in ~$150k, with a lot of sweat equity. Kitchen alone was $60k. Roof was $23k. Siding and windows were $30k. Those were the big ones.

A house I put an offer in on for $300k, sold for $310k, sold last year for $1.3M. That house had been on the market like 4 months, and had a few low ball offers, same weekend I put in my offer, someone puts in a competing offer, I don't bother getting in a bid war. It was a much nicer house, in great condition. Neighborhood not quite as good as mine, further from any grocery store, park, and getting onto the main road can be in a pain there during rush hour I'm sure, since it would be a left most of the time.

Good work brother. Earned.

Admiral wrote:

This was similar to what the latest bank person I spoke with had said to me that I needed about buying a home THIS TIME when I was trying to find a home to buy because the rent went up again.

Porksta wrote:

Does that mean anything today though? Are there any first-time interest rates or government programs? I remember there used to be back in like 2008-2009.

There once was a large tax credit and states provide grants if you qualify.

Master_Z wrote:

Different lenders would have different things - be it programs, waived fees, rates, etc. There may be some government grants you can qualify for.

Also much easier to get a low down payment FHA loan I think.

Feeb wrote:

That would depend on the following factors: down payment, credit score, and DTI ratio.

Sun wrote:

I mean...YEAH...but they should be the experts She sort of convinced me in a way also, by showing similarly listed and sold properties in the area...and $320k DID make sense at the time. It's just hindsight getting to me really.


See, when selling though - if you list too high, it takes your house out of search results for SO many people (who are probably "saving" houses as they find them in the seach), then it doesn't get attention. Plus, lowing the price CAN BE a bad look for a property - people think "something must be wrong with it". Furthermore, we had a place lined up to move into at the end of summer, so we really couldn't sit on our home for too long.

I don't disagree with you in theory, but we were in a unique situation I think.

Wow, great story @Chad

@beavis sorry that is happening to you :( I hope it works out sooner than later in your favor

our lease runs up next year, i'm pretty terrified of what ill find

akfa wrote:

Indeed.

And people renting right now (ME!)....be prepared for huge rent hikes when it's time to renew. My friends were paying $1800/mo for a city 2 bedroom 1k sqft apartment.

The next year, it went up to $2600. Almost a 50% increase!

My rent has gone up every year since I been here... I'm on my 4th year. It hasn't gone up too much, like $25 a year, but it's a 1 bedroom apartment and what I'm paying a month is literally likely a monthly payment for a 3 bedroom house... w/ a garage...

I can afford it, don't get me wrong. It would be nice to know why a long term tenant w/o issues has to pay more every year, besides the usual "corporate decision" spiel.

HybridCRoW wrote:

I had the same issue with a previous apartment...

Their response was "everybody else gets raises, why shouldn't we?"

While I'm sure greed is also often involved... Note that, right now, everyone's property values are jumping hugely each year -- which often means increases in property taxes. As a landlord, our rents have gone up a bit each year -- but, the last couple of years, we're actually making LESS because our property taxes have gone up so much.

Increasing the value of a property means nothing until we sell one day. And, heck, things could be worth less then even. Right now, we're paying more in property taxes for "value" that we'll likely never realize.

Yea, my property tax went up $50/month... so I had to get an appraisal done to drop my MI lol. Pays for itself in a year!

Also have to consider inflation and labor rates have also increased. Landlords now need to pay more to maintain their properties. There are also landlords that might be trying to recoup any losses they might have had from not being able to evict tenants from unpaid rent. It could also be a very smart business move to increase rent to the current market value while you can in case there is a bubble that's about to burst. Home prices and rent could be driven down so that landlords are taking a loss.

I don't live in a super desirable, but not quite terrible, neighborhood in the California capital. For context, I bought my home in 2011 for 67K. The house on my street have been regularly selling for $350-400K depending on the condition and upgrades. Pre pandemic they were selling for around 225-250. I wouldn't be able to afford the prices today, let alone fight with the all cash offers.

Someone had mentioned the first time homebuyer status. The only thing I will say about the FHA backed loans is that if you don't put any money down on the house, you will be charged pmi (mortgage insurance), which, depending on the size of the loan can be hundreds of dollars a month in addition to your mortgage payment. For most mortgages, unless you refinance later on, this fee is there for the life of the loan. It does incrementally decrease with every monthly payment, but not by much.

@ChronoLe usually PMI is only until you have a LTV of 80% or less. Usually you just beed to call a bank and ask them to take a look. You shouldn't be paying PMI for the life of the loan

On an FHA loan you do.

@mcorrado As @Porksta mentioned, I'm not sure if it differs state to state, the original loan for the house I bought for my mom, FHA, did not allow for the auto dismissal of the PMI after it hit 80%. It actually explicitly stated in the terms that it would not. Same thing with my friend's FHA loan. It required a refinance, otherwise it would have extended for the life of the loan.

Right, with FHA, PMI lasts the lifetime of the loan or you can pay the full PMI upfront at the time of closing. Most people end up refinancing to get the PMI dropped once the LTV ratio is 80% or less.

@ChronoLe somehow missed the FHA part of your post. Makes sense then, but yes that can add a considerable amount of interest like you said if you never refinance.

Reviving this thread.

Curious to hear if any of y'all have had luck lately? We're still at it. The market has definitely slowed down around here. Pricing is slowly coming down, but options are also shrinking.

The one from awhile ago that we were stoked about, we ultimately passed on, and SO happy we did! The month after it sold, the person who owned the neighboring lot, cut down ALL the trees and the value of the land feels like it dramatically dropped. Definitely glad we dodged that bullet as that was such an appealing factor of that house. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/665-Medina-Line...

We've got a new one tomorrow that we're pretty excited about, but fearful it will go fast. That and it's a bit out of our comfort zone budget wise. Would require some decent lifestyle changes, but as of now feels like a really solid candidate. Checks many boxes, but lack of a woods, and the design of the basement/family room isn't my favorite: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/35329662_zpi...

Does this check any of your boxes? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/14955-Avenida-V...

Neighbor sold their home like a month ago. San Diego housing is crazy.

SwiftJAB wrote:

$665k for 1300sq ft!? Oh my god, that's just insane!!!

LA market is f'n bonkers right now, still.
987 Sq ft, dilapidated 2 bedroom, no lawn, with an ADU with shared driveway that's rented out. $1.1 Million.

Rental rates for comparable $3200 a mo +

This isn't sustainable.

I mean that's just insane! My buddy just left the Bay Area (went to San Diego) and was paying like $3,600 for a 1 bedroom apartment!

The income divide from West Coast to elsewhere, isn't as drastic as it used to be either, so the time old "well they make more in California" isn't as true these days. I don't know how people can afford that life style on most jobs.

Sadly, this one appears to be a bit out of range for us. Just got off the phone with a lender, and I doubt we'll be able to bid on this house ... not unless we dramatically change everything our life style, which sounds awful. Or, I could sell all of my entire video game collection, which would massively help, but my god that's so much work that I wouldn't even know where/how to begin.

This time around we signed a 1 1/2 year lease on the place we're renting. We just plain gave up trying to buy, and then gave up trying to rent a different place because it was far too competitive for places that really weren't all that great. We're just going to wait this out a bit more, it's so frustrating.

I mentioned earlier in the thread we put our house on the market in July which was probably the worst time to sell as the rate hike happened two weeks later. I was talked into putting it on the market for 650k by my realtor who said it would be snatched up immediately. This was my first house sale and I’ve now learned that realtors might be more useless than car salesman. It’s an occupation that should go away.

Anyways I basically forced her to bring the price down but we still weren’t getting any bites. We then got an offer for 425k around end of October, but at first we turned it down. It was a low ball offer (at the time) based on the market around us even in my opinion. Apparently the couple were paying cash and just sending lowball offers to a lot of houses. Thought about it for 2 weeks and decided to see if they would haggle. They agreed to 500k and we closed in November. I’m glad to have it off my plate and we made a bit of profit. I didn’t like selling to them because I guess they were investors who were gonna flip 2 years after living in it but the market literally went dead in that area (I haven’t seen a house sold in that area since mine sold).

We are seeing homes come down in the St Louis area... not in the ghetto, but nice suburbs. I've seen a lot of real nice condos I would love to buy and rent out, fully updated for 150k. I could see myself doing that down the road but not just yet.

we just had our house reassessed to see if the PMI can come off our mortgage.. turns out our house is valued $160k more than when we bought it!!!

shadyfozzie wrote:

That should definitely get it dropped and save you a chunk.

Now the question is -- how long until they can raise your property taxes to match the "new value"...

We were gonna do it... Go over budget and bid on the house. Haha... Yeah... We talked to the selling realtor, many bids over asking. There's such little inventory now and competition is aggressive. Super curios to see how much it goes for.

Probably best to wait until spring/summer regardless. Hopefully rates will come down a bit more too.

My house sold. I'm sitting on cash now trying to decide next thing to do with my life. I've been talking to banks and figuring out the process to buy investment properties.

Commercial and multi-family real estate is going nuts. For the longest time in WA you couldn't find better than a 4% cap rate anywhere decent, maybe a theoretical 7% cap in Aberdeen or Goldendale or somewhere out in the boonies.

Now you can find 7-10% with relative ease. Moving to commercial / industrial, there is storage facility that I bet is doing 18-20% cap for what they are asking.

sinnie wrote:

Right now St. Louis, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Pittsburg have IMO the housing markets with the most opportunity. St. Louis has some amazing buildings, some needing a lot of TLC, some move in ready.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/6300-Minnesota-Ave...

I don't know the area at all, but that seems like an amazing wedding venue / rent out to boy scouts / rent out to a church, etc.

Not gonna lie, I feel like my rent is going to go up again this year since they did one of them appraisal things by a 3rd party company to assess repair costs, etc...

Surprisingly, while I was waiting on a job I applied for in Columbus, OH, I did some research and cost of living is similar, somewhat lower than where I am now... So far as I can tell it is safe to say I'm not considered for the job so I've decided to stop looking in that area. I was looking at possibly renting a studio apartment for the space.

Now that I'm going back to work at the same job I quit to focus on my education while I look for an IT job, I'm going to focus on getting my financials back in order, rebuild my savings to prepare for when I need to move for my IT job...

I bought a house and closed earlier this month. $325k. 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom, living and family room, full basement that's custom height one extra block (I'm 6'8" and I don't hit my head), gas fireplace, all hardwood floors, deck, New appliances, New furnace, New roof, dry basement.

I was the only person who put an offer on it. My realtor used that to pressure the sellers to spend $20k to fix things before closing. That included steel basement wall stabilizing brackets (common in this area), chimney repairs and new hood, radon mitigation (also common to area), and some stone decorative replacement on the outside.

Lots of people toured the house but whined over dumb stuff. Things like Lot wasn't big enough (it's 0.75 acres wooded), garage wasn't big enough (it's 2.5 car), it's too close to the road (my backyard borders a busy 4 lane road. It's only busy from 10 am till 5pm and there's plenty of yard buffer), there's no shed, the cement drive needs mudjacking (two small spots outside my garage), it's too close to the school (I'm two houses away from a high school which is fancy as hell and super quiet). I have one neighbor bordering me that's super nice. Across the busy road my backyard borders is a golf course. Everyone on my block works 3rd shift so it's dark at night and pin drop quiet.

I plan on mudjacking the drive in spring, planting lots more trees, fencing in the backyard, finishing the basement, installing vinyl siding when prices drop.

If anyone wants to buy my house in northwest Milwaukee, mention this thread and get $2k off asking price.

Chad wrote:

The crime in a lot of these places is really bad and that's keeping a lot of investors out. Go there the wrong part of the day, get mugged, shot or carjacked. There's just some places you can't really easily go in STL and many other places.

sinnie wrote:
Before I bought my house I visited during the weekend especially Friday and Saturday night to see how the area was.. Of course this was in 2012 before this market.. We've had so many houses change hands the last 2 years it's crazy. One house in particular has been bought and sold 4x.. One house went pending in 8 hours and the other in 9. The guy who bought the house on the corner waived inspection and the house has foundation, roofing and drainage problems. Now he knows why they took his offer even though they had 2 higher offers.

Over here most realtors are being butt-holes. Either they ignore texts/calls or leave you hanging after an "appointment" to look at a house. Hoping the market gets better this year

kevolones wrote:

Fire your realtors. I went through five before I found a keeper.

I've had good experiences with realtors. The best was this couple that did it together. The wife was a super nice/helpful person. The husband (never actually met him) was the one who negotiated the price once we got an offer. I was shocked at how much more he got the buyer to pay. I almost felt bad for the buyer.

More recently, when my parents died, I had to sell their homes (out of state). The realtor helped me with all kinds of details (e.g. I had to clean the places out and do some minimal fix-ups). He even would meet people while I stayed remote in some cases too.

Indeed -- there are great realtors and horrible ones. It's a bit too easy to get a license here (and maybe everywhere). I see way too many people picking it up as a "side gig" who have no idea what they are doing.

The city I'm moving to, almost 20 percent of residents have real estate agent licenses. It's crazy.

ryanflucas wrote:

They are not really my realtors. Theyre just the people showing the houses on the market. I need to find a real realtor and stop dealing with these people.

My first realtor was awesome for me. He gave me tons of tips and was brutally honest with certain houses. Nothing we were seriously interested in, but he flat out told us on certain properties he would not be our agent if we tried tried to buy them. He wanted nothing to do with having to sell them later. Props for that honesty.

Due to moving out of state, I've had 4 other realtors. I dumped 2 of them quickly as it was all about their commission. The other 2 were decent, gave me some breaks.

Be weary of a realtor who struggles to find negatives about a property, especially if they consistently spin your concerns to non-issues. Also as soon as you know or suspect it won't work, cut ties.

I don't have nice things to say about the realtors I've dealt with. Some have been "ok" but at no point has anyone ever met the value of their commission. $20k+ for just fielding calls from other realtors is pretty insane.

I've sold 2 houses and both times the realtor said they could get $X and when the appraisal inspection came around everybody was nervous. And both times the appraisal was below the expectation, but at that point you're tied to the realtor to some degree even with their false promises.

For one of the houses we actually talked directly with the buyer to work some stuff out (without our reps ever knowing), as the song-and-dance BS through the realtors was so dumb. And they still got paid.

I went through realtors fast because I didn't buy a house fast enough. I had a few really good ones but they spent more time helping people that bought the first house they saw for quick money.

My sister in law is a realtor and she's really great at her job. Yet in the grand scheme, I find that realtors aren't needed. Feels like a a car salesman. A role that used to have a lot more value, but has proven to be far less needed and valuable as technology has taken over. The insane amount of money they can make for doing so little, is baffling. Sadly, still a bit of a necessary evil until things further change. We'll sell for sale by owner and buy a new house through her.

Indeed. Realtors have a large lobby group that basically makes it difficult for anyone to get access to MLS. If people had easier access to it, then they would be less and less needed.

Sure, this varies by house and location, of course. But, in general, in many areas and with average/normal homes, buying direct access to MLS to list your own house might make the most sense.

I thought my realtor was amazing selling my place. If I sold when stuff was hot I would have done Redfin. But when everything is going to crap? She was very good. Did like 15 open houses, helped arrange a whole lot of stuff.

Buying though, I think I might just use an attorney next time. Buying is no way worth 3% in most markets.

Generally 2% buyers fee and that's usually baked into the seller's realtor.

Well, that ... was a giant kick in the balls.

We finally found something that we liked, and was in our range (ish).

We were the first to bid. Found out there was a cash offer after us; however, the sellers gave us a follow up shot to match the new offer. This is because our realtor (sister in law), knows the selling realtor (just at a professional level). They relayed to the buyer that we have a 3rd kid on the way, and trying to move closer to family (our realtor, 5 mins away).

Anyway, to match the offer was pushing our limits on affordability (still managable). I asked "would it be ok - if it doesn't scare them away - can we simply see the house a second time - tonight or tomorrow morning before we finalize the committment?".

What was ultimately relayed by the selling realtor, to the sellers ... unknown, but it resulted in the sellers denying us and going with the other offer because we were "wishy-washy".

Absolutely bullcrap. Granted, it's my fault, but c'mon. This market is batcrap. There's no room for hesitation or second guessing.

Really sucks, it was a big home, in a great area, that checked many boxes. Reality is, we probably shouldn't have even had the chance to go against a cash offer, that's not normal ... and shoulda been the sign for me not to be a giant idiot, and just to say YES, right then and there.

Needless to say, my wife is not to happy with me .

I hate this f'ing market.

Dang, sorry to hear that. I was just wondering the other day if the market had calmed down at all, doesn't sound like it.

You could have matched it and said yes and they STILL may have taken the cash offer. It's just more "safe" from their point of view. So, if it helps any, it STILL could have gone this way in the end even if you just matched and said Yes.

You'll find another.

That sucks @MrBean. The right home will come.

I've been seeing 3bed2bath type houses in crapty neighborhoods going for at least $150k... sure they've been fixed up and looking new, but still... CRAPTY NEIGHBORHOODS....

I've also seen a lot of scams getting posted as well...

@MrBean Sorry to hear that man. Don’t lose heart.

It is not your fault. Second showing is customary. It indicates strong interest, and usually results in an adjusted bid in favor of the seller. I suspect they went with the all cash offer and said whatever.

Qpalzm wrote:

Sadly, not in this modern market. Houses sell within 24 hours. Many site unseen. You don't have time to think... Just act. Sucks, but is the reality.

Don’t be afraid to pull the trigger. That’s what contingencies are for. Unless the cash buyer is waving all contingencies and your on the fence ( in first place) then probably smart to move on.

I had a similar situation back in 2020, every house we made an offer on was swooped up before even a counter offer. Then when we saw another one we really liked, we got lucky. The owners liked us and also the fact that I did not have a realtor. 😂 Their realtor asked us to match the highest offer. And we did. 100% commission for the realtor and we got the house.

Unless you are in desperate need of a house, I'd still suggest waiting it out. I've literally seen houses that were 85k before this increase sell for 160k plus. Just seems like something has to give and these prices are going to come down. I get that it might be a long time though so if you are in desperate need of a house, makes sense to be looking.,,,otherwise I think I would sit this out. It would just suck to drop say 500k on a house and then the value plummets to 350k.

Family bought the house 2 doors down from me.. The house had went pending in 9 hours and they were surprised because 2 people went higher than them... They waived all inspections and wanted the house as is.. The house is a tragedy and the people knew it.. New roof is going to cost 35k, they ripped out the driveway and walkway and had it repoured for 5k to fix the flooding problem but it didn't fix it.. When it rains the water runs and sits under the house so they had to dig trenches to lay pipe to run the water away from the house but it's temporary.. The back side where an extension was added previously basically pours inside when it rains.. To try to get the water away from the house they need to get the land leveled and they were quoted 8k for that.. When that dump 2 streets away went for a quarter million I knew people lost their minds..

Don't forget the highly inflated house prices also drive up your insurance, property tax, etc, and when bubble bursts it can be a pain to get them reduced

brian9824 wrote:

I've got a bad feeling that this presumed "bubble" actually isn't in most (not all) geographical US markets and that prices, while hopefully not continuing to rise as steeply as they have, will go flat instead of crashing down: the "new norm," so to speak.

Housing market has actually cooled a bit, the high interest rate is kinda awful for home buyers with the need for mortgages(fudge these cash buyers, wtf).

Lunar wrote:

Exactly! Because there is a greater demand for single-family housing than there is a supply of them, I just don't believe we're in a bubble. This, sadly, is the market reacting to a housing shortage by increasing prices. The Fed's rate hikes have shot up interest rates which has made mortgages more expensive. Yet, still people are buying houses because the need is still there. Maybe it's not at as crazy a pace as when rates were two and three percent; but, the need is definitely still there.

For us, Cleveland, the market is just wrecked.

We were for years considered undervalued. ~$200-$300k homes here just 5-10 years ago, were worth double/triple in other markets. Now that same ~$200-$300k is a good $500-$700k here.

The crazy part is, people are still buying like lunatics. They're selling in ~24-48 hours on anything from ~$200k to $700k. Most are cash offers too! We've lost out on several now because we stood no chance on cash + over asking offers. Where the fudge is this money coming from? I am just a dumb crap, but I'm assuming due to more and more remote workforce, we're getting people from Chicago, New York, etc. that flocked to a cheaper market and have now totally fudgeed it up for us.

I mean christ, just a month ago, we looked at listing from my sister in law. She gave us priority at it, we passed, and she sold it within 6 hours SITE UNSEEN, for $60k above asking to one of her clients on the west coast. She sent them an 8 minute walk through video, and they overbid by $60k - JFC.

It's just nuts.

Part of the problem is companies are popping up that are buying properties to rent out which makes it harder for them to be gotten by people who want them for themselves.

A lot of these "cash buyers" are investment firms like private equity looking to capitalize on rising home values. They often want to rent homes out and probably flip later. Rich foreign private citizens also look at US real estate as a good place to stash their cash.

I have been actively looking for just over a month now. 0 for 4 on accepted offers thus far. My realtor is drafting up a fifth as I type; fingers crossed this one takes. Probably the best house I've seen thus far.

I got a new government job near Olympic national park.

Typical home there is $425-500k.

I'm still sitting on most of teh cash from my sale (haven't spent any but have invested some). But i want to get pre approved for a mortgage all the same.

there is a 7 unit multi family for a bit over $500k I want to go check out. I can't believe it is that cheap, studios are like $900-1100 over there, 1 bed are like $1000-1400, and as I understand it you can barely find an apartment over there because everything is air bnb.

Or I could get a pimp place on the ocean with an awesome view for $800k-1m.

so at least i know where to look for buying now!

Anything more than 4 units will require a commercial mortgage, which has different guidelines than a residential loan. You may want to talk with your bank about getting pre-approved for both commercial and residential.

https://www.commercialsearch.com/commercial-proper...

I could buy a bank.

If it was in the Midwest, it would make a great Baptist church or Subway.

We've had a couple bank branches close in my town over the past few years. One became a coffee shop and the other is a Jimmy Johns now!

(The coffee shop one still has the drive-up lanes where the tubes would shoot stuff back and forth, but they just them for parking. I kinda wish the Jimmy Johns ones would have kept theirs and used it to shoot subs through!)

This one doesn't have the tubes unfortunately.

Still has the vault though, so figure a jewelry store or more likely, pawn shop would go good there. It's actually an incredible location, it is like 5 blocks outside of city limits so it is county, which is much cheaper to deal with. I think a detatched coffee place in the parking lot close to the entrance would be killer. For local commuters they drive by that spot every day, and its on the right hand side going into town.

That's a really touristy area, something like 2 million people go through every year to go to Hurricane Ridge and the Olympic National Park.

I feel like some restaurants would go good there. They have some good burger places already, but they are lacking good non-chain pizza and sub shops. Do that, turn the top floor into apartments and I think it could be a good deal long term. It's super prime location, in 10-20 years it will be annexed and probably close to the start of "down town".

Have any of you that sold been getting lots of random texts and calls since you sold asking if you own your old house?

I'm averaging 2 of these per week since I sold. Didn't happen at all until house was pending. Any idea why that happens?

I think I found a place I want to put an offer in on.

Located on a hill, 5 bed, 4 bath, 2 current living units, there is a third potential living unit over the garage that currently is only a half bath.

Has ~240 degree views of water, shipping lanes, a logging plant, Canadian mountains in the background, the long sand bar ("hook").

Under $700k, really needs paint. Whoever installed the granite countertops sucked bad. Original builders were super high quality. Has 2 of the best bathrooms I've seen, one awesome one on each floor. The most beautiful staircase I've seen under like $1.2M. Deck was in great condition.

Between 3000-3500 square feet.

Biggest down side is garage doesn't open to the house. Second biggest is minimal off-street parking, though that could be remedied for not much money. Third biggest is the front door isn't where it should be. Final issue is no fence.

All but front door are easy enough to fix, just a matter of money. And even the front door issue isn't terrible, it needs like an extended deck so you don't walk down a hill just to walk up steps.

It's been on the market for a while so thinking of going like $75k under asking to see if they respond.

Mr. Big Baller over here.

No joke, @Scott! I hope you're able to close on that dream house, @Chad; I truly do. But, daaamn, son! You're clearly in a whole other tax-bracket-lifestyle than me. I felt like a million bucks last year just being able to move my wife and three kids outta a two-bedroom, one-and-a-half-bath house and into a four-bedroom, three-bath house. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I suppose.

We're half tempted to buy land and build. Just randomly found a lot we like yesterday for $140k (1.5 acres, flat, creek in the back, no trees which really sucks). House would probably be at least $500k.

$650k was like our top we wanted to be but would prefer to be much more under. Don't want to be house poor and rob ourselves of lifestyle and vacations. Gonna chat with more builders.

I love the idea of building your own, but it also comes with more stress! Just tired of looking at houses and them not being the right one.

Good luck @chad! You pulling the trigger?

Yeah, just trying to figure out my offer. I'm thinking $653k, $50% down payment, $50k earnest money, 30 day closing would be a pretty strong offer with a decent chance to get them to accept. $653k would be a 5% price drop. They have been listed 6 months and did a 5.1% price drop around a month ago. It would also keep enough money from my previous sale to do the immediate needs (parking and fence).

Contacted my agent to put in an offer. Supposedly another party is interested and is going to be putting in an offer. If so, I'm guessing they are at least looking for partial investment as well, given the property. So I am assuming they will low ball. I went $660k. At $660k I'm comfortable on the mortgage even if I don't rent anything out, if I do start renting then its just gravy.

I'm ok if I don't get it, but will be really happy at the price if I do get it. Especially if in 3 or 4 years I can refinance at 4%.

If the other party is like multi-generational living, they might get in a bidding war. But in that case, no thanks.

Good luck, Chad!

Offer was accepted. I suspect the competing offer was a lie or came in really low. Still very happy with this price. Especially since this is only first round of negotiations, like I mentioned, I think more will come off from inspection.

Yeah, so, in my experience buying rentals that have been on the market for a while -- there ALWAYS suddenly seems to be another party that is interested and they therefore need us to make our "highest and best" offer. We usually say "Yup, already did. Thanks." and see how it goes. Usually we get it -- which, like you said, makes me think there was never anyone else.

But congrats, certainly! 👍

Badass, congrats @Chad ! Hopefully you've started a wave of momentum here ...

Chad wrote:

Congrats. Did you post any pictures that I may have missed? I understand not wanting to display the address but curious what the place looks like. Tease me.

https://imgur.com/a/CmnvXxB

let me know if that works.

and 3 of the trees partially blocking the view are on this property. though i dont know if i will cut anything down, even with part of the view blocked, there is a good view from all floors.

and it definitely needs a coat of paint. i want to do something kind of bold. like a red or green or or something as the primary color.

Congrats man! That looks really nice.

Chad wrote:

Chad wrote:

Dream house right there! Hope it goes thru for you! Good luck!

Looks great!

Chad wrote:

Legit thought you were going to clownpenis.fart me.

I forgot to include the back up generator in my bid, and apparently all the stuff I thought was staging (furniture, art, rugs) is being offered for additional. We will see.

It'll go well over asking, but... Hoping to see this tomorrow. Checks lots of boxes but definitely not all. Soooo much wood, not as open of a floor plan as I'd like, roof probably needs replaced, no pool, hoa, blah blah.

Problem is, everything is 550+ around here and offers less. This market is such a kick in the balls. Inventory is starting to improve but everything is still overpriced and selling over ask. It amazes me that $600k these days and you are ultimately settling.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/78-Taylor-James...

that looks really nice. but HOAs terrify me.

Inspection is over. Inspector seemed really good. Surprisingly few things to note. There will be some deck work like I expected, but super minimal. Some handrails needed, deck should be screwed in rather than nailed, a few support brackets needed for existing hand rails.

Getting a few contractors out and quotes for things, but I don't think I'll be able to even go in for a $20k price job. Maybe not even $10k. Meanwhile I think I am going to be asking for like 20-30k in generators, rugs, and art....

Their (sellers) realtor sure kind of fudgeed them on the sale with this listing IMO. The pictures are so bad compared to how it looks in real life. My inspector said he normally checks every place that has opportunity to be a multi-family but skipped by this one based on the pictures.

Oh and confirmed radiant ceiling heat. He said its super reliable, lasts a long time, but once it dies, not worth trying to repair. Was able to show it on the infrared camera which was cool.

Inspector and realtor were guessing main floor would rent for $2000-2200, bottom floor $1600-1800, and if I do the above garage unit up, $900-1200 for that. I think I might end up living on the bottom floor and renting out the top and eventually the studio.

MrBean wrote:

Part of the issue is you've got corporate buyers out there looking to pick up properties to add to their rental portfolio, and until/unless that backs off, people are going to feel the need to go over asking price to even have a shot to land a house in some markets.

Some of it is that interest rates have been abnormally low since 9/11, and the 5s and 6s we're seeing now might even still be on the low side compared to the 70s and 80s.

So it's a question of "will they continue to rise" and "how much?" The more they rise, the bigger a squeeze it puts on buying power, and so some buyers may be feeling incentivized to pay more for the house while they can lock in a relatively lower rate. Be interesting to see how long that double whammy lasts.

(We bought last fall at 5.25%, but we were also in the shallow end of the pricing pool, so we ended up not having to go over asking much at all; thank God in retrospect given some of the crap we've had to deal with since getting the keys.)

Volkswagen bought my home for cash a few years ago to house an employee.

Feeb wrote:

Different flavor of corporate. What I mean is mass landlord situations, where one buyer (usually incorporated to minimize personal liability) or possibly a group are buying up the affordable homes to turn around and rent them out to generate "passive" income.

VW was trying to unfudge crap for one of their employees. Good on them. Different beast than the sort looking to exploit the situation to make things actively worse for would-be homebuyers.

MrBean wrote:

Well, the 90's wood trim is ... not the best, it's largely a hill, but everything else is quite awesome. One of the best school systems in Ohio, nearby some kickass cities, neighboord is crazy nice, near family ... nearly 6k sq ft (with the potential to add quite a bit more via a closed off cedar closet).

We're feeling it. They shut off bids at 5pm today, and we were bidder #4 at 4pm, so there may be another two last minute, we'll see.

Put in the offer at $620k, with escalation to $650k. More than we want to be at, but it checks too many boxes to keep waiting for the perfect house.

Oh, we also talked to a builder after we found a lot of land, haha ... SO much more expensive. Realistically, to come even 2/3 as close to this house, it'd be well over $800k, soooo, yeah, no.

Fudge this crap, we lost it. gosh darnit.

Only in this modern fudgeed up world do you lose out by overbidding $20k with only 4 bidders.

I give up.

sorry to hear that. and yeah, building is ridiculous. You have to take on large portions of it yourself to not get completely fudgeed.

MrBean wrote:

I still dont understand how people are paying that much over asking price. And it is every single time! 20k and you still didnt get it? This market is insane!

I actually made an offer on a house yesterday. Definitely have 0% chance of getting it but I thought Id try.

Congratulations, @Chad! I look forward to reading more of your updates as the journey continues. Remember, in the words of the great Yogi Berra, "It ain't over 'til it's over."

That super-sucks, @MrBean. But, don't lose hope. My wife and I had to deal with at least four other competing offers when we bought our house early last year. It was listed right at 300K and, to the shock and surprise of both my wife and our realtor (who's also my cousin's husband and one of my best friends), I decided to go super-nuts and make the power-play of 325K. Well, long story short, we won the house and, right now, online realty sites such as Redfin and Zillow estimate the property value at just under 350K. Mind you, that's excluding all the equity we pumped into the place before moving in like refinishing original hardwood floors, tearing out linoleum floors, installing and finishing new hardwood floors, installing new tiled floors, tearing out linoleum countertops and backsplashes, installing quartz countertops and tile backsplashes, and painting each and every room.

So, the next time you step up to the plate, @MrBean, go for the brass ring. Make your next offer a stupid amount. Not only will you finally win, you'll also find that you'll recoup your "losses" way faster than you may think.

It's been will they or wont they for 2 months.

Originally blown out of the water by a +35k plus asking. Winning buyer had an as-is clause, and then there was a little bit of trouble with the inspection the buyer balked. Sellers lawyers said "no dice, you presented an as-is offer" and by some stroke of luck, we were next in line.
We inspected, found the issue to be something that could be fixed for around ~10k, Since there were other bidders still in line, came up 2.5k on bid, then based on inspection asked for a 7.5k concession. They came back with 3.5k in concession. Then when the appraisal came in value on property was10k above asking.

To Noid's point, I'm actualizing that value elsewhere. You're in the long-haul now.

MrBean wrote:

Man, that house would go for at least $1 million in NJ..

shadyfozzie wrote:

Yeah, even though the market is still bat crap here, it's still better here than elsewhere. We were considered under-valued for years ... and now we 180'd and are over-valued. Still, one of my friends in Florida said this would sell for ~$2m there!

We'll never find that big of a house in that range again, it was a crazy listing. That size is typically ~$750k+. Sure it needed some work, but that price was crazy given all the other factors.

We should have bid more, but it's over. Sucks, but ... what can ya do. You have to set a cut off at some point, and while we can afford more, we don't want to be house poor. We came to alignment that $650k is our max so if we don't get the next one either ... is what it is.

Still, salty ... been a crapty day

What's crazy is that you could buy that house here for likely well under $400k.

Like, if you're in a $350k house here, you're in a REALLY nice house...

John wrote:

Same here. Depending on school zone. That would be anywhere from 300-600k

John wrote:

That's what it used to be more like here pre-covid. But post the boom of everyone moving here from chicago, New york, Etc to work remotely in a much cheaper location, everything has skyrocketed and rumor has it it's not coming down anytime soon. So what used to be 400k is now 650 plus which is super fun

This feels weird. Got all the quotes back. My offer this time is actually higher than my first offer, but asking for a lot of personal property. I think they are going to accept but who knows. Maybe they really like that couch…

Just bought a new love-seat and couch this week. We've been looking forever and finally went for it since the price came down some finally.

The "love-seat" is for us sitting right in front of the twin 75" TVs for TV and game playing. Has built-in cup-holders and power seats and headrest for optimal positioning during gameplay!

They won't get here until the end of May though. Oh well.

@John That's awesome!

As a bonus, I was able to buy it completely with Rakuten cash back money.

checking to see if the vacant lot next to my soon to be new place is available for sale / who owns it.

Just wired my down payment. Over $300k gone in a fraction of a second. That was a lot more painful than $22k 10% down payment for my first house.

I move in this weekend. Was talking to my realtor yesterday, he was saying a similar place (duplex but only about 2000 square feet) to this just he had a client put in an offer $31k over asking and there were 8 other bids, not sure what final price is but he suspects close to $700k.

Closed today. It's really real now.

All moved in. Holy fudge I’m tired. I had half the paid help flake and needed to do a lot myself.

I already like this house more than my old one I spent 12 years fixing to my own personal tastes. Just so much better build quality.

My neighbors to the south are hilarious. I had the moving truck out and they drive into their driveway and started unloading some bags of dirt and fertilizer. I go up to them and say “Hi, my name is Chad, I’m your new neighbor.” The man ignored me and the woman said “uhh ok.” So I asked “so who are you?” And she responded “umm, your neighbors?”
And then they walked inside.

The best neighbors are the ones that end up being friendly and doing favors. The 2nd best type of neighbors are those that want nothing to do with you and just leave you and your crap alone. I’m hoping they are 2nd type.

I wish you were my neighbor, Chad.

Chad wrote:

Third choice: squatters

Reading some of these comments and just some local stories I am so glad we bought when we did. As time goes on I am loving the location we basically get the country quiet with town amenities. They just built a new fire station which was a HUGE upgrade over the last and same with a community about 8km though theres isa bit bigger. Only 8km in the other direction from work! since we bought it in 2020, we have put on a new roof and redid the kitchen those are the big upgrades. Going to start doing some yard stuff now that out little one is old enough where she wants to be out side all the time, I am thankful for the HUGE backyard also. We want to put a shed and garden maybe a sandbox and swings and we still have enough room to play football lol.

For those looking, man I hope things get better for you.

On top of that the population is 96 people and we got fibre optic internet 3 Years ago so I really have no reason to complain. Once I get a proper PC I plan on upgrading to gigabit.

I'm still a big ol' "fudge you" to this market. More random crap keeps popping up, that all suck, and is insanely overpriced ... I hate all of it, so frustrating.

Anyone want to live in Milwaukee hit me up. My old house is going on market in June. Not included in sqft is the 452sqft rec room with bar/pool table.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7820-W-Bradley-...

Yeah the market is crazy, i'm in a more expensive region of south florida, paid $160k for my town house back in 2010 which is only 1200 square feet, the current estimate for it is over $470k. No way in hell I could afford a place with the going rates if I hadn't gotten this back then.

Have any of you gotten a second address for an ADU before? ADUs are now legal state wide in Washington, but I don’t want to have to share mail.

Finally in the new house it's overwhelming to say the least. Home office is not setup. Home network not setup. Lawn wildly out of control. Washer and Dryer broke week one (they were holding on with spit and good wishes) -
But I'm here.

Some people go straight to the seller and bid way over with a monthly payment and no to little down payment and rent out the property. They go way over asking price and some people buy 50-100s of properties using this method. Simply need to rent it out for a little bit more then the monthly payment.

Yeah, so, as a landlord, I can tell you that that isn't really common at all and it isn't that easy at all. There are LOTS of things involved that you'll need to pay well above the monthly mortgage payment. Also, from what we're seeing in most markets, you can't even rent them high enough to cover the current market rates for selling houses. As we've seen in this thread, LOTS of people -- ordinary non-landlord buyers -- are also bidding way over asking price and with no inspections.

I'll grant that there were some very large companies who bought up a bunch of houses to use as rentals. From what we're seeing, most of those companies are in some real trouble now because they can't rent them for as much as they expected.

And, of course, real estate varies greatly by area -- so some markets are different.

But, in general, no, there aren't a bunch of landlords doing what you've just stated and having it actually work.

I wAnT tO bUy YoU @ 10x wHaT YoU HoUsE WoRtH bUt dOnT wAnT to PAY YoU uP fRoNT! I"LL JuSt rEnT It oUt aNd PaY YoU fOr It iN MoNtHlY PAYMENTS!

So my house that’s was about to go up for sale was inspected by my realtor and it’s not going on market, but instead going up for cash buyers/flippers. It was built in the 50’s and my parents bought it in ‘73. I was born in 80. I’m hoping it goes for a good amount but I don’t have high hopes.

Good news is the house I just bought with my widowed mom has a teenie tiny mortgage. So I don’t need much from the sale to pay that off.

I used to really get angry because my parents were extreme savers. They didn’t update the home unless absolutely necessary. They saved as much as they could. Now it’s paying back like crazy. The things that are preventing the normal sale of this house are things I probably would have had no idea were an issue, even if my parents had renovated. Things like the electrical system. The capacity was upgraded over time, but the actual wiring/junction box that goes to the bedrooms is still original. Realtor was shocked, said how do I have home owners insurance? They never asked to come inside. Who knows what else is original, lol.

What do you mean by "not going on the market, but instead going up for cash buyers/flippers" exactly? I mean, if you're advertising it for sale, it is on the market. Or does it have some issue that won't pass some inspection, so no mortgage is possible -- and, therefore, it would only be of interest to flippers/cash-only buyers?

I don't see a reason other than that to not list a house like any other. Why target it to the low-end crowd only?

John wrote:

This. It’s an old enough house with money I’d need to sink into repairs and upgrades to make it worthy of local realtors to sell “on market” with a mls registered sign out front. At least this is what I’m being told by multiple people. I’m still suspecting they could be wrong.

— There’s mold on one corner of the basement.
— There’s a small wall break in the dining room. I have wall patches and repair spackle but was told by my realtor don’t even waste my time because there’s hairline foundation cracks which require wall brackets to remedy so there’s no movement.
— The yard has some dead ash trees and branches that fell off them. I haven’t paid to have them removed since quotes were in the thousands.
— My realtor saw a basement ceiling electrical junction box that leads down to the bedrooms. It’s uncovered. She said that’s original wiring and no insurance company in the state of WI will insure a house with that, no bank will issue a mortgage. The entire electrical system needs to be torn out and replaced. My cousins husband saw it today and said so what, put a lid over it.

Break out that spackle, go with your cousin's husband, and sell that puppy to the sharks 'cause it's still a feeding frenzy out there...maybe not quite as bat-ship crazy as a year ago; but, it's still very much a seller's market most everywhere you go.

I’m just trying to make sure there’s no legal pitfalls.

ryanflucas wrote:

That's where the term "Sold as is" comes in, as long as you disclose everything that you're aware of. There are people out there that will buy without the inspection, etc....

I’m being told differently by a lawyer. As-is can still mean they can come after me later. At least in the state of Wisconsin. Anything I don’t list in a condition report or other paperwork that they find post sale can be used in a lawsuit. So I need to weigh if there’s anything I don’t know enough about but selling the property for more vs accepting less but hedging less risk.

The numbers we’re talking about here aren’t huge. The property is assessed at $165k according to latest assessment. I assume assessment means what the city of Milwaukee thinks the property would sell for (provided it was in sellable shape compared to other homes). Sure houses go for more than assessed value but not like outside the city. I’d feel great if I walked with $150k. Realtor says she thinks the property based on condition could bring an offer of $125k. I won’t accept less than $100k no matter what. But im going to entertain offers and see what they come up with. There’s a few home buying organizations here too I can meet with (Hmong, urban initiatives, etc) that may be interested.

EDIT: Note that this was a same-time post as your last post. I didn't see it until after I wrong this (and replied below in my next reply).

My understanding is that it would be up to the buyer to do inspections and find things like old electrical and such. A lot of people right now are still waiving inspections and making all-cash offers. If it were me, I'd find a realtor to put it on the market in the normal manner.

Now, whether or not you have to disclose anything, I'm not sure. Someone saying that your electrical is "original" doesn't necessarily mean that you know anything, in my opinion. Old "Knob and Tube" wiring is indeed a problem and will likely need to be replaced. But, at this point, I would argue that you don't have knowledge that it is necessarily "knob and tube". So, in my non-legal opinion, you have nothing that you have to "disclose" at this point when it comes to the wiring.

As for the mold -- bleach and scrub clean as best you can. As far as you know, it's mildew, not a dangerous mold.

The other things are non-issues to me in this market. Is it going to go for less than the house next door without those things? Absolutely. But is it also very likely to go for more than only offering it to fixer-upper people off of the normal market? Yes!

I'd put in a tiny amount of work to fix the little things and then find someone to get it listed properly. 👍

ryanflucas wrote:

My understanding is that a condition report is meant to be a very surface-level overview. You aren't a housing inspector. You could list known issues like:

- Some cracks in the walls
- Mildew in basement
- Tree branches in yard. (Although, that seems obvious, so you shouldn't have to list it -- and also doesn't concern the structure of the building)

Heck, you could even put "Age of wiring is unknown" in there if you wanted -- because, well, you don't know.


These days, it is very hard to trust those unless they have looked at it recently and adjusted. The market has been up for the past few years and most municipalities have not yet adjusted their assessed values. Also, in many areas, there are limits on how much they can increase those each year. It is fairly normal, these days, for a property to be worth significantly more than the assessed value.


I'm not a lawyer, so definitely be careful, of course. But, if it were me, I'd have trouble not wanting to list it on the normal market. I don't think you are walking into liabilities here because you just don't have much real knowledge of the situation. Those lawsuits down the road are usually for known, hidden things like a known foundation issue that you knowingly hid with some quick patches to the cement. Or a septic field that doesn't work that you just keep pumping every few weeks while you try to sell the place -- without disclosing that you knew the septic field was gone.

It is generally not an issue for things that you don't have specific knowledge of -- especially if the buyer waives inspection. That's on them, not you, IMO.

ryanflucas wrote:


Have you considered that the junction box with exposed wiring might be "retired in place?" If so, you could have an upgraded wiring system while the old system sits idly in place. That could also explain why the j-box would be left uncovered. In any case, I recommend you get an assessment from an actual electrician before jumping to any conclusions. Unless your agent is a building inspector AND a certified electrician, I would not take their advice. Similarily, their opinion on the foundation is meaningless unless they have a Structural Engineering license. It shouldn't be compromised by hairline fractures.

You may want to consider paying for your own inspector before making the drastic decision to dump it at a cash auction/sale. $500 or so could give you the peace of mind you need to list the house, or confirm that you don't want to. Either way, you'll have better information to make the right decision. I'd also consider getting the opinion of another agent before not listing.

About your current agent; I would question their motivation. It's not logical that your agent would not want the house on the market. If it doesn't get listed, then what would you need them for? Wouldn't they be out their commission check? I certainly wouldn't keep an agent around just for a fire sale, A lot of agents do house-flipping as a side-hustle. My spidey-sense tells me that this agent has someone with cash standing-by to snatch houses like yours on the cheap.

Hire someone to fix the known issues.
— There’s mold on one corner of the basement. - Mostly a DYI. Spray hydrogren pyroxide on the mold, let it sit 10-15 minutes, scrub, repeat if necessary. Get dehumidifer installed in basement. Ideally you have some interior drain and solve it with a $200 mobile dehumidifier and some H202. Could install something for like $2k and pay someone like $500-1000.

— There’s a small wall break in the dining room. I have wall patches and repair spackle but was told by my realtor don’t even waste my time because there’s hairline foundation cracks which require wall brackets to remedy so there’s no movement.- Get a foundation guy out to check your foundation. Hairline cracks don't matter, its once you've got a gap that you need to really worry. If there are cracks, they are repairable. Fix the interior dining room yourself. If you need to do anything on teh foundation, figure it starts at $500-1000. Might go up to like $8-10k if its really bad. But I bet its fine.

— The yard has some dead ash trees and branches that fell off them. I haven’t paid to have them removed since quotes were in the thousands. - call up a few churches looking to fund raise for something and tell them you'll pay minimum wage for as many kids as they send out, maybe like $10 an hour if you are federal minimum wage. Bet you can get it done for $100-200. If you can burn onsite do it, otherwise add $50 for them haul away.

— My realtor saw a basement ceiling electrical junction box that leads down to the bedrooms. It’s uncovered. She said that’s original wiring and no insurance company in the state of WI will insure a house with that, no bank will issue a mortgage. The entire electrical system needs to be torn out and replaced. My cousins husband saw it today and said so what, put a lid over it. - Do you have rag wiring? This would be the most expensive thing to replace. Minimum like $10k I would think. Probably $20k would be more average price.

If that is it, I would get that done and sell it as a turn key house.

Do not hire a home inspector. He will find lots of stuff that isn't necessarily a life and safety issue but is just deferred maintenance. If you know something, you then have to disclose it. Fix the stuff you know needs fixed. Depending on how long ago it was painted, consider hiring a painter for both interior and exterior, but I would prioritize interior.

Selling with a realtor vs selling to flippers is like a difference of 50%. Like $300k for the house I described vs $150k for cash offer. And I bet $20-40k and 4-8 weeks to get it done.

There’s no way that would go 300k in my area at its peak.
Four bedroom homes in perfect condition here fetch $200,000 to $230,000. The higher end of that includes new appliances, windows, everything.

So then you are looking at $100k vs $200k with probably $20-40k in expenses and some of your time. Still sounds like latter is worth while to me.

Guess what? It's still a crap show out there!

We're never moving.

luckily for me my house is family owned. and has been through now 3 generations. It kinda does what i need out of it, but because it was build in the 40's-50's? the decor definitely matches. My grandfather build it the house by hand which wasnt too hard considering he was a free mason himself. He also built the house next door, but after he dies my grandmother had financial troubles raising 8 kids on her own and decided to sell it.

One day when my credits much better i plan on staying here and taking the profit from having a living tenant already in the residence.

I feel for those buying right now. its nuts and insane and especially in new york i wouldn't dare buy another property where I'm at in my life right now

Sorry to hear that Bean.

I've been having an impossible time finding contractors. I thought I was done doing the work myself. But for a fence? Earliest I can find someone to do that is last week of September. And it will cost $15k. There is a tiny bit of earth work in that but fuuuuuuuuuck.

My "apartment" remodel over the garage? Earliest I've heard is they can get me a QUOTE in October with work in February.

My new home supposedly increased 25k in the matter of months. I received cash offers the day I moved in. It's nuts.

My brother and I have been looking into real estate investing. We've been doing a bunch of research but haven't decided on which direction we want to take. I think the desire is to get into multifamily, like buying a small apartment complex, but we've also been tempted by the cash flow potential on rental arbitrage and AirBnB, but taxes and ramp up time might kill it for us.

Curious if anyone does real estate investing here and what you would look for in the current market.

Is Airbnb even a profitable endeavor without having a large inventory? My mother in law used to rent her place out in Japan consistently for years using Airbnb but she had to get out as the cost to maintain the standards that Airbnb required was getting out of hand. It’s also started receiving a lot of negative attention from the people that used to commonly use it, myself included.

Seems it started as a fun idea but once they ran out of venture capital the prices sky rocketed

SwiftJAB wrote:

This is a bit of a scary time to get into real estate, IMO. It could go great -- it could all fall apart really easily. So, keep doing research.


AirBnB is having some real problems lately. All those investors suddenly want their money back. Reviews of AirBnB have gone significantly downhill over the past couple of years. There is no way I would invest in something intended for AirBnB right now unless it was an absolutely perfect area at a low price (i.e. a unicorn).


I have 13 "doors" (2 4-plexes, a duplex, and 3 SFHs). I haven't seen anything worth buying in the past 3-4 years. I'm thinking seriously of selling more of them off actually because the market is a bit crazy still. Not as high as a year ago, but still high. In the current market, I'm not buying anything. I mean, others are -- there are deals to be had -- but it takes a lot more work than it used to.

I'm looking into real estate too as I actually have enough savings to potentially put a down payment on a mortgage now. But seems like on a duplex or triplex the mortage would be the amount you would rent it for or maybe a few hundred less which could be a loss with any repairs or months where it's vacant and that's on the high end where it might take a while to find a tenant, if the zillow mortage estimate is accurate. I've been trying to find a property where the other units rent would cover or mostly cover me living in one unit or a house where I could rent it out and live in the guest house but doesn't seem plausible rn i would still be paying almost as much as if i paid rent, renting out all units would only net you slightly more than the mortage. Is there something I'm missing? Why would other investors be buying these properties? It seems like on the low end I could get a duplex with 2 2 bedroom units for around 300k, rent for 1000 each quickly or 12-1400 if I wait for tenants, zillows calculates the mortage around 1800-2000 usually. In tucson arizona

I don't want to live at my dad's house still but would either be spending more than half my income on rent or living with roommates worse than him and paying more rent than he charges so it doesn't make sense

lightslime wrote:

Very high level response here, but this really depends on what market rates are in your area. Also, people buying a 3 unit may not have any intention if living in a unit but renting all 3, supporting the mortgage and still making a profit.

Without knowing a lot of details for your area or the property, it's hard to give specifics on properties.

Feel free to send me a message if you have any questions and I can try to help. I work in commercial lending and see this type of stuff fairly regularly.

lightslime wrote:

So, Zillow's mortgage calculator is decent then based on a current price -- but note that Zillow is commonly very wrong on it's approximated "values" for properties and rents. I belong to a Landlord group and we basically all laugh at any data from Zillow. So, don't base anything important off of Zillow estimates. Just FYI.


So, my advice to people looking to get into this is usually exactly that: buy a cheap or "needs some updates" duplex where you can live in half while you fix up the other half. Then rent that fixed up half out -- while you live in the other half and fix it up underneath yourself. After that, when you can, rinse and repeat a few times.


So, everything comes down to location. For comparison, in my area in mid-Michigan, even with housing prices what they are, you could buy a duplex that is 2 2-BR units for around $150k and rent for ~$800-$1000 per side. So, effectively, pay about HALF as much as there for the same income. (For more comparison, I bought a duplex here about 20 years ago for $70k that needed fixing and put about $20k into it. So, bought for $90k. At the time, each side rented for around $550. Today, that is $750-$800 pretty easily.

In my opinion, it's a hard time to get into real estate with rates what they are. But, rents are higher too, so it CAN work in the right area with the right deal.

Here paying $700-$800 a month rent gets you 1 bedroom and bullets whizzing by. Double that price for 2 bedrooms and less bullets. Triple that price for no bullets.

My rent went up this year.... again... I'm paying $880/mo for 1 bedroom, but it doesn't include the bullets whizzing by. It does include neighbors and their jackwagon guests that don't drive carefully through the parking lot. And It does include trash, fridge, stove, and dishwasher. Water bill is pretty cheap and electric bill fluctuates on the time of the year, winter being the worse because I'm first floor apartment.

I would say if I include my utilities and renter's insurance, I'm paying closer to $950-$1100/mo depending on time of year.

I really dread the thought of moving but my state is just awful. I'm sick over some of the things they are trying to do to take away human rights. But trying to sell a house and move out of state with a family almost seems impossible and hopeless right now.

sa330206 wrote:

Florida?

John wrote:

My realtor sister in law used to say the same thing. Yet as of the last several years, the Zestimates are pretty spot on for what people are asking... Even though they end up selling for more. Same with Realtors estimates. Seems to be a pretty decent gauge with today's batcrap market.

MrBean wrote:

Ohio...look up issue 1.

sa330206 wrote:

Ah, yah, Ohio here too. Been seeing lots of signs on this.

I ... fortunately/unfortunately, avoid most politics like the plague. Thank you for the call out though, yah this is some bullcrap.

Didn't they just try to do something similiar to this in FL, and it failed?

Regardless, yeah, I need to vote against this.

We've been renting our place in Northeast Florida for 10 years now but a while back we were planning to buy a place when my kid graduated in 2020. Then Covid happened. Our place is OLD but in a quite area, and way unpriced at $1150 a month (2 BR, 1 BA). I don't have the money to put down for a place now so may end up renting where we may end up relocating to (still in NE Florida). Or are lenders giving away houses with no money down? I don't mind going up to $1750 if needed.

MrBean wrote:

Maybe they have gotten better. I can tell you this... About 5-7 years ago, we got a call from someone at Zillow asking how much one of our 4-plexes was. We stated that it was not for sale. They said "Well, if you wanted to sell it, what would you list it at?" and I said that I really didn't know. Then they said "How much would it take for someone to walk up to you today and offer cash for it so that you know you'd just take it?" and I basically gave a figure of like $400,000. At the time, they were probably worth maybe $180,000. I was just annoyed with the guy.

A week later, Zillow listed my property as "recently sold for $400,000" and had the current value listed as $425,000.

That is why everyone in the industry laughs at Zillow pricing. Lots of us have had similar experiences.

Just talked to a contractor about turning our finished basement into an AirBNB (adding a bathroom and kitchen) and he quoted us $100k-$120k, that’s gotta be a fudge off quote right? We were thinking $25k, maybe $50k at most.

Reed wrote:

That would depend if it’s wired, plumbed etc. but likely it’s a fudge off quote. Dude’s are charging a premium in the last 5 years for sure. That’s a 2500 sq ft home and lot here.

Reed wrote:

Not for nothing, but it could be cause of cost of materials.. right after when the pandemic was starting to 'end', we had someone come out and quote us on putting a sun room on the back of our house.. He quoted $52k, and he said 2 years ago it would have been like $30k but the cost of lumber exploded..
A plumber also told us the cost of everything is skyrocketing, almost 60-70% more than pre-pandemic...

Reed wrote:

All remodeling seems to be insane right now. My wife and I have been talking about doing a makeover of our house for years (new roof, siding, windows, and a garage door). We've had rough estimates before in the $30-$40k range. We finally had someone do a real quote now because we were ready to move at $40-$45k. It came back as $85-$90k.

So, for now, we're just sitting.

Would it be very unrealistic to fix up something like this?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/502-S-Fremont-A...

lightslime wrote:

I mean, if you know what you're doing, don't see why not ... For me personally, that's a hard no. I can do basic crap, but looks like that needs a fair amount of TLC!

Don’t even see any snakes staying in there.

John wrote:

Will remodeling prices go back down to half of what they are now or is this just the new normal?

lightslime wrote:
Yeah maybe not. I'm reading about the 1% rule in real estate investing and seems like it could potentially cost 100k to renovate that place, seems like a bad time to buy real estate here if you want it to rent for more than 1% of the purchase price

This seems like the best deal I could find: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1354-S-Avenida-...

Ha, haha, of course. Just got a letter today that our property was re-appraised (happens every 6 years), we jumped $70k! Jfc, cash grab galore, more taxes!

Guess our whole county is getting hit by upwards of a 34% increase, ours was 26%.

Crap is bound to crash soon.

This topic has new posts which were moved here:

https://gametz.com/General/housing-market--620672....