Just watched Thor Love and Thunder and loved it. I've come to the realisation it's going to take a lot for me to hate these movies. I think there have only been two, second Thor and Moon Knight, that underwhelmed me.
Here's my take on why thor is like this in this movie: If you look at the history of his story in the MCU, he never came to Earth until he was banished by Odin. In that time, he made friends with Jane and the Avengers. Over that time, some of their mannerisms definitely shaped him.
Move on to Ragnarok, where he loses his dad, his hammer, his eye and his home in a short period of time. That definitely took a toll on him mentally. Then, he lost almost everyone else (Loki, Heimdall) to Thanos. He couldn't kill Thanos before the snap, and he pretty much gave up and hit rock bottom (hello dad bod Thor).
Now in love and thunder, he spent a lot of time with the GOTG, where even though he was still finding himself, their demeanor and attitude towards everything was very childish and Blaise, so that obviously pulled thor in that direction.
As the movie progresses, you can see Thor become more humble and starting to begin transitioning back to some semblance of his past self, especially with the ending. Granted, he did appear goofier and less astute in this films beginning,but once he found a purpose to lead and fight, he turned back into badass thor.
I think his character arc came full circle by the end of L&T, and with all the new responsibility as well as having closure with one chapter of his life, I think he will return to his OG bad ass persona, but not without some of the humor still appearing from time to time.
Definitely enjoying She-Hulk, this newest episode was fun. I really do enjoy the VERY ground-level vibe of the show, to the point where the main antagonist up to this point's only plot was to sue Jennifer over use of the name "She-Hulk", and the comedic way they go about that whole issue is a breath of fresh air for the MCU imo.
However, the tease at the end of this episode has me SLIGHTLY worried...
I obviously love Daredevil, comics and Netflix, and am looking forward to Born Again, but I question if She-Hulk was the right show to reintroduce the character. I know Murdock showed up in Spider-man: No Way Home, but Daredevil himself is going to appearing here. He's just such a grizzly character, grounded but in a much darker way and the overtly colorful, comedic tone of She-Hulk seems like a strange choice for him. I know Charlie Cox just went on record recently saying that Born Again will pretty much be a "whole new thing" compared to the Netflix show, so it's possible they're trying to ease us into that show's tone, but that just makes me question whether or not I'll love it as much as I'd like to.
Really just a small worry. MCU has a good enough track record that I have faith, it just seems like a REAL deviation from what we got previously.
I'm really liking She-Hulk. I went into it knowing it wouls be cheesy, but I'm really liking the humor. If it was supposed to be serious with some goofy humor mixed in, I probably wouldn't like it that much.
I dunno, rewatching Love and Thunder now… I think folks were a bit too quick to judge the character himself based off the first half without taking the film as a whole. Thor is purposely acting dumb in the first half, that’s his personality, and he’s grown somewhat bored of his role in the universe. After being reacquainted with Jane and realizing the extent of her situation, he almost immediately snaps back into “mature” Thor. Almost the entire second half of the movie, at least starting from the veeeeeery awesome black & white fight scene, Thor is as much a “badass” as he’s ever been, and finally found himself able to care for others more than himself in a way he hadn’t yet achieved.
I think Thor arriving to Wakanda in Infinity War, with the whole “bring me Thanos” bit, was my favorite on-screen depiction so far, but also feel that’s rivaled by the last 30-40 minutes of Love and Thunder.
Also, I love Christian Bale in this movie, maybe the most unique performance he’s ever offered. But folks pretending like he was wasted due to the comedic tone in contrast to his character HAD to have ignored how over-the-top and scenery-chewing Gorr was throughout. He didn’t “quip”, but he was DEFINITELY goofy in plenty of his screen time. And then similar to the other characters, got real serious when it was appropriate.
Even Natalie Portman hit her performance well. I thought the scenes of her as cancer-riddled Jane were super emotional, and juxtaposed with her as The Mighty Thor was super satisfying.
It’s just a fun movie, I really, really can’t understand the MAJOR issues with it that some folks have. Yes, a few gags broke the weight of a scene during the first half, but it really wasn’t enough to kill the movie for me. The back half of this movie rules SO hard, and it wouldn’t have without what came prior imo.
Finally watched ep 4 of She-Hulk, I'm still really enjoying it. My only complaint is that we're supposed to believe it's hard for Tatiana Maslany to get a decent date, and that even some below average dudes wouldn't be that interested in her. lol @ "wongers".
It's hard for me to explain why I had mixed feelings about the new Thor movie, but what I can say is Thor was annoying as FACK that I feel I need to go back and re-watch the other Thor films to make sure he wasn't always this annoying. Despite appearances and being the bad guy, I liked Bale's performance.
As for She-Hulk, I'm enjoying it with one MAIN issue... the episodes are SO FREAKIN' SHORT!!! Also, I am slightly annoyed w/ the whole dating thing... Perhaps it's because of my own personal history w/ dating, socializing, etc... but I'll get past all that.
Finally watched Thor Love and Thunder. It really says something that it took me this long to finally get around to it. I also have mixed feelings. I feel like the Thor humor in Ragnorak and Infinity War was good because Thor still took himself seriously. The jokes were more at Thor's expense because he took himself so seriously. The Thor humor in Infinity War came more from the Guardians, which is in line with their characters. I really didn't like Thor in Endgame, but at least he got serious towards the end. A lot of L&T was just stupid, and Thor is a punchline at this point. I didn't like that they added a whole new off screen story between Thor and Jane...It made me feel like I missed a whole movie. Their relationship in this one just didn't work. And he went from the God of Thunder, future king of Asgard, and son of Odin to a pussy-whipped b*tch.
And in every other Thor movie, he has an arc. You could say Thor's arc is the best in the MCU (only rivaled by MAYBE Tony Stark). He goes from an egotistical narcissist that seeks out way for glory, to a worthy future king that learns to love. He goes from being the "Lord of Hammers" to being the true Lord of Thunder in Ragnorak. Then he deals with massive grief during and after Infinity War. He deals with the loss of his father, mother, brother, best friend, home planet, and half of his people, only followed by the biggest battle loss of his life when Thanos snaps his fingers (which Thor blames himself for)...his grief makes Wanda's seem silly by comparison.
What was his ark in this movie? Love is the most important thing? In fact, he loses over and over again against Gor, and then at the end, basically gives up because of love? I don't get it.
He’s grown bored of his role in the universe having defeated Thanos and treats life like a never ending vacation until he reunites with Jane Foster, who’s illness and inevitable death puts life itself back in perspective for Thor. He then realizes he needs to grow up and gains purpose by the end of the movie, both literally and metaphorically. Fairly straightforward arc tbh, I feel folks were just so blindsided by his goofy nature in the first half of the movie that it became the only thing that's really discussed when it comes to his character. He was more or less back to badass Thor for the whole second half of the movie.
I mean of course the humor will still be there, that's the MCU, but despite a joke or two, once that black and white fight scene takes place, Thor is focused and honed in like he had been in the past. Admittedly, I didn't really notice that the first time I watched it and it took a re-watch to catch it. The first time through, I was a little more understanding of that particular criticism, but the after seeing it again I just can't help but disagree with it.
I imagine that's because I went into my second watch with a little bit more of analytical brain due to the backlash, instead of the first watch, where I just wanted to be entertained. I wanted to see if I thought it was really as bad as folks were saying so I actively paid harder attention to the way the character came off when I watched it again. There's definitely still humor but once the weight of the situation hits him (both the threat to the children and Jane's life situation), he snaps out of the more lackadaisical approach.
All that said, they did sort of drive the Stormbreaker joke into the ground, as well as the screaming goat stuff.
I thought the goats were really funny (although definitely beaten into the ground a bit). I'm fine with that humor, and I'm fine with humor in general. Thor Ragnorak and Infinity War are two of my favorite MCU films, and they obviously had tons of humor. I just wish they didn't turn Thor, himself, into such a joke.
I know it has been mentioned before, but my other issue was how they treated the GotG. Why have him go with them and kind of take over as their leader at the end of Endgame if they were just going to recon that whole story? Honestly, I got some Rian Johnson Last Jedi vibes from this movie. It's like they had a story they wanted to tell but didn't care where Thor's story had led him after Endgame. Same thing with Jane Foster. They needed there to be more of a relationship to tell the story they wanted to tell, so they imagined it off screen.
I'm still enjoying She-Hulk, but I've been a little less into it for the last 2 or 3 episodes now. I was enjoying that it was more of a comedy, but I figured they were still building toward some sort of bigger storyline, maybe even a main villain. But now, there are only 2 episodes left and very little has actually happened. Hopefully it ends strong!
Just watched She Hulk Ep 8. It was fine but there are some iffy things.
So Daredevil IS the Netflix Daredevil, they even play some of the theme at one point, but Murdock has apparently grown into a much more "happy" guy. But boy, that CGI fighting doesn't hold a candle to the brutal Netflix fight scenes. I suppose this version of Daredevil works fine for the MCU and if we didn't get the Netflix show I doubt anyone would even be batting an eyelash at it, but I sort of feel like maybe they should have just recast the character if they weren't going to completely honor the tone that came previously. I mean Moon Knight got away with being a bit more dramatic, I'm not sure why Daredevil was slotted into the comedy/sitcom show other than the lawyer connection.
Charlie Cox is still great with what he does get to do, it's just very blatantly a different take. Oh well, that's just like how when new writers take over comics. I just hope they adjust it back just a bit in time for his own show. I did love the nod to the hallway scenes, and just having She Hulk take care of it in one second.
All that said, I still very much LIKE this take on Daredevil. Like I said, it's just different than what came before. In contrast, I really disliked their treatment of Kingpin in Hawkeye. Daredevil was nowhere near that level, it's still very much Daredevil and I'll always dig more Daredevil.
Otherwise it was a fine episode. I too think they could have integrated a bit more story into the one-off comedy episodes but I wasn't expecting that heading into the show so I can't say I'm let down by it. It's just that now that they're starting to build toward something within the last 3-4 episodes, I would have liked there to have been more of that to strengthen the stakes a bit. BUT I'm still enjoying it and I think if they stick the finale's landing, it still holds up as a real good time for me.
More I think about it, the more I'm fine with it...
RE: Daredevil, obv.
I know Charlie Cox has gone on record as saying Born Again will be a "whole new thing", which suggests that this MCU Daredevil is not a continuation of Netflix's show, but I also feel like after his limited appearances in the MCU so far, you can keep your own head canon and consider it a continuation.
The only real difference to the character is that he seems happier, and more "quippy" at times, but as Murdock he's more-or-less the same way he was during his happier moments in the Netflix show (when hanging out with Foggy and Karen, etc). And to be honest, the way Daredevil Season 3 ended lends itself to this "new" take on Murdock/Daredevil. When you think about it, he exorcised his personal demons, saved his childhood home from the Kingpin, and put a pin on that segment of his life. So, 4 years later, it stands to reason that he maybe was able to let his past trauma go having defeated Kingpin and just sorta grow into a normal person (personality wise). Nothing he's done since has been as personal as his war in Hell's Kitchen, so there's really nothing holding him back from getting over that crap.
Now, I do hope to see a LITTLE bit of a return to form in Born Again - hopefully with the reemergence of Kingpin in the MCU, Daredevil will harden back up, but for what we got in She Hulk (and No Way Home), I'd say it's not too hard of a stretch to imagine this as a continuation of the Netflix Daredevil. Time will tell, though. Born Again could still easily retcon stuff in regards to other characters (Foggy, Karen, Punisher, Elektra, Bullseye, etc) and if that happens, then we'll just have to accept this as a reboot. But yah, otherwise, for now, I'm fine imagining this as being the same Daredevil we got in the past, just a bit more grown up and willing to "let go" of his past issues.
Only experience I had with the Charlie Cox Daredevil is the Defenders.... and I couldn't quite watch that all the way through... Maybe I'm more favoring the Ben Affleck movie... I don't know. Disney+ has the Daredevil series available to watch. I've been told by fellow classmates they liked the separate serieses better than the Defenders series, so maybe I'll like watching the standalones.
May or may not watch it before the new Daredevil starts showing though depending on how things develop for me job-wise, etc.
> Just watched She Hulk Ep 8. It was fine but there are some iffy things.
>
> ...
>
> Otherwise it was a fine episode. I too think they could have integrated a bit more
> story into the one-off comedy episodes but I wasn't expecting that heading into the
> show so I can't say I'm let down by it. It's just that now that they're starting
> to build toward something within the last 3-4 episodes, I would have liked there
> to have been more of that to strengthen the stakes a bit. BUT I'm still enjoying
> it and I think if they stick the finale's landing, it still holds up as a real good
> time for me.
The Daredevil-She Hulk fight had to be CGI... it wasn't terrible, but you could tell a lot was CGI. The fight in the factory however, was more Daredevil like which made up for it.
I like his "updated" MCU personality. Feels more true to the comic books where characters aren't so serious all the time. I thought the original take in the Daredevil Netflix series was "too brooding.
Yes, the CGI wasn't great, much like The Rings of Power CGI battle from Episode 6. I've learned to live with it...though it is still jarring to see the obviousness of the CGI.
> I like his "updated" MCU personality. Feels more true to the comic books where characters
> aren't so serious all the time. I thought the original take in the Daredevil Netflix
> series was "too brooding.
>
Yeah I like it just fine, and it's just like when a new creative team gets control of a comic. It's bound to change up a bit.
It's definitely accurate to certain takes on his comic counterpart, but the Netflix Daredevil was VERY accurate to the Frank Miller Daredevil (which it adapted lots of). He was Mr. Broody in those books, but it made sense for the story being told. I thought he was adapted perfectly in the Netflix show given that story, and I feel like folks forget how charismatic he was as just Matt Murdock. He wasn't 100% serious all the time, just most of it haha
And like I said, if one wants to just consider this "new" personality as the same Netflix character 4 years after besting his biggest rival, saving his city and putting his personal demons to rest, I think that tracks fine. He's not as angsty because nothing he does is as personal as the events of the Netflix series. But it does come down to to Born Again to show us the side characters and whatnot before we can tell whether this truly is a full-on reboot or not.
She Hulk is a show that knew its audience far better than it ever let on, and far more than a certain portion of its audience ever realized (or would admit). That being the "creepy incel loser" portion. The finale approaches just about every “issue” the internet concocted head-on using its own brand of meta. Every single creepy dude whining about “pandering” or this brand of “strong female character" was obliterated by this finale and it ruled so hard. Those dudes who were hate-watching the show must be near-Hulk levels of pissy right now.
At the same time, I could also see how some level-headed, non-creep MCU fans may sort of shake their heads at it. But I loved it, chef's kiss. Here's to more She Hulk in the future, whether it be another season or a role in the larger MCU.
Still haven't finished She-Hulk. We only have 2 episodes left, but it's been harder to find time to all sit down together and watch stuff with how busy we've been. My wife and I did watch Werewolf by Night though. I enjoyed it overall and would love to see more stuff like it in the future. But, I feel like the ending didn't deliver as well as the first ~2/3 of the movie did.
I'm not particularly hyped about Wakanda Forever. Black Panther was just ok, not nearly as good as many make it out to be (IMO, of course). Plus, the main aspect I did enjoy about Black Panther was T'Challa, and him not being able to be in WF doesn't help matters. I'm probably just going to wait and watch it on D+. The trailer for the GotG Holiday Special didn't excite me nearly as much as I thought it would, but it will probably be decent. So, it's basically just downtime for me for a while, until Quantumania comes out. I'm really looking forward to that one though. After that, I'm excited for Secret Invasion, GotGv3, and Loki S2. That's the only stuff I'm super excited for in 2023, but I'll check out most of the other things as well.
Went ahead and updated my full ranking. I doubt the last 2 episodes of She-Hulk are going to change where I place it, but I'll update it if so. Our re-watch of the MCU has slowed down severely ever since the school year started up plus extracurriculars, but we did watch Age of Ultron and Ant-Man over the last couple months. AoU stayed in the same spot, but I actually moved Ant-Man up a few spots. I never disliked it, just thought it was ok, but each time I re-watch it I seem to enjoy it more and more. I didn't change Ms Marvel's spot, but I did move it into my bottom tier. Not sure why I didn't put it there to begin with.
39. I Am Groot! 38. The Incredible Hulk 37. Iron Man 3 36. Iron Man 2 35. Iron Man 34. Thor 33. Ms. Marvel ----------------------------------------------------------------- 32. Doctor Strange 31. Eternals 30. Thor: The Dark World 29. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 28. What If…? 27. Werewolf by Night 26. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law 25. Guardians of the Galaxy 24. Captain America: The First Avenger 23. Black Widow 22. Hawkeye 21. Ant-Man 20. Spider-Man: Homecoming 19. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------------------- 18. Captain Marvel 17. Moon Knight 16. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 15. Loki 14. Spider-Man: Far From Home 13. Ant-Man and the Wasp 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ----------------------------------------------------------------- 10. The Avengers 9. Avengers: Age of Ultron 8. Captain America: Civil War 7. WandaVision 6. Thor: Love and Thunder 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
Among your tiers I don't think mine would differ that much, although Loki and the first Cap would be tier 1 for me and Civil War and Age of Ultron tier 2. I think the only thing I haven't watched is Werewolf by Night, been saving that for a Halloween night watch.
Small update, we re-watched Doctor Strange and I enjoyed it more than ever this time. After looking at my rankings, I decided it needed to move up a bit. Also, we finally finished the last couple episodes of She-Hulk a week or so ago. They were both really good, but not enough to make me change where I ranked it.
39. I Am Groot! 38. The Incredible Hulk 37. Iron Man 3 36. Iron Man 2 35. Iron Man 34. Thor 33. Ms. Marvel ----------------------------------------------------------------- 32. Eternals 31. Thor: The Dark World 30. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 29. What If...? 28. Werewolf by Night 27. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law 26. Doctor Strange 25. Guardians of the Galaxy 24. Captain America: The First Avenger 23. Black Widow 22. Hawkeye 21. Ant-Man 20. Spider-Man: Homecoming 19. Black Panther ----------------------------------------------------------------- 18. Captain Marvel 17. Moon Knight 16. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 15. Loki 14. Spider-Man: Far From Home 13. Ant-Man and the Wasp 12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ----------------------------------------------------------------- 10. The Avengers 9. Avengers: Age of Ultron 8. Captain America: Civil War 7. WandaVision 6. Thor: Love and Thunder 5. Spider-Man: No Way Home 4. Avengers: Endgame 3. Avengers: Infinity War 2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 1. Thor: Ragnarok
I don't know where Werewolf by Night falls into my list. I enjoyed it, but it feels like it doesn't belong in the MCU. It was ok, but after all the hype, I was very underwhelmed.
Yeah, it felt very out of place. I still liked it though. I'm fine with them doing more projects like that, that are technically part of the MCU, but mostly separate.
Watched GotG Holiday Special last night. That was such an unexpected fun movie/special. I love Drax and Mantis. They are so funny. It's clear though that Chris Pratt and Dave Bautista are out of superhero shape. Quill must have eaten that one extra cheeseburger. Also, I remember Bautista complaining about going shirtless in his 50s, so he got around that with a skin colored sweatshirt.
I assumed they filmed the Christmas special at the same time as GotG3, did they not? I would have thought they'd definitely need to be in shape for the latter.
Maybe I'm wrong. Quill looked extra wide. And I thought Drax looked weird with a shirt on. It didn't take away from the special though. I loved Christmas Time is Here at the beginning.
