General

After typing that ^ I actually thought that maybe they will do Bullseye but just not really reference the events of Season 3 a lot. That way, new fans can look at it as a reboot while the Netflix fans can still keep that show in their head canon. Bullseye from Season 3 was more proto-Bullseye, before he fully became what he was in the comics. Being one of Daredevil's biggest villains in the comics, they could easily make him more comic-accurate and go that route while still making it work with what came before, just presented as something different.

When does Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel release new episodes?

bonham2 wrote:

Wednesdays. Ep 2 drops tomorrow. I think we'll watch Ep 1 tonight. I'm only somewhat interested in it based on the trailer, but I think my kids will like/relate to a child superhero.

I was very pleasantly surprised by Ms Marvel. Obviously had very little interest beforehand but I dig the world & atmosphere they’re building and the girl who plays Kamala is great.

It was ok. I mean, it's a fun watch, but it's definitely silly. I liked it better than Moon Knight.

Did y'all see they're bring No Way Home back to theaters with extra content? It's called "The More Fun Stuff Edition". I want to see it, but the breakdown I saw of the extra scenes didn't look that great. Basically, a 5 minute scene of all 3 Spider-Men hanging out is the only thing worthwhile. There seems to be some extra Matt Murdock stuff too, but I still haven't seen Daredevil so that doesn't interest me.

I enjoyed Moon Knight quite a bit. It was so different from anything else in the MCU, barely even feeling like a superhero story a lot of the times, but I didn't mind that. It's nice to get some variety.

Daredevil remains the best MCU TV show to date by a mille, but I’ll probably just wait for the extended No Way Home to release digitally.

Scott wrote:

I wasn’t blown away by Moon Knight the way I was hoping, and that feeling only grows the more I think about it. Oscar Isaac was great as usual and the penultimate episode was awesome, but otherwise it really didn’t do much for me at all.

theJaw wrote:

I liked how each episode had a very different feel to it, and Oscar Issac was just incredible.

theJaw wrote:

Gotta disagree on that one. Wandavisiona and Loki were both incredible and were top tier tv shows in general, not just Marvel.

I liked Ms Marvel, I think we need more fun shows like this and the Spider-Man movies every once in awhile. Moon Knight was enjoyable as a fleshed out back story, but I really want to see more of Moon Knight doing stuff.

WandaVision is a close second for me for sure. Loki was 50/50 for me.

For me:

WandaVision
Loki
Moon Knight
Hawkeye
Falcon and the Winter Soldier
What if?

#1 MODOK, RIP was canceled

#2 Moon Knight

I dunno if this matches what I have on the MCU ranking thread (it always changes), but if we're just going by MCU-produced shows (not the Netflix shows) & off the top of my head:

WandaVision
(Preemptively slotting Ms. Marvel right here based solely off the first episode being a breath of fresh air)
Loki
Falcon and the Winter Soldier
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
(Still haven't finished What If?)

To be honest, I do feel sort of bad placing Moon Knight at the bottom. I mean, it was still a fine show... still better than a lot of TV nowadays, but it just didn't hit home for me other than the performances. Also having Hawkeye above ANY show seems weird to me considering how little I enjoyed aspects of that one, but I had no expectations at all so it at least lived up to those haha. And gotta love a full-on Christmas MCU entry at least a little bit.

So how are y'all feeling about Thor? The trailers have been great so far. I'm really glad Valkyrie is back, and Korg, of course. I'm skeptical about Jane as Mighty Thor. I like Natalie Portman, and didn't dislike her character in the first two Thor movies like many others did, but I also don't see THAT character being a good fit for the role. The trailers haven't really given us much though, just shown her a couple times, but very little dialogue. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

I'm loving all of the color in the trailer. The overall look and feel, plus the music and humor, definitely have strong Ragnarok vibes, which is a great sign. I'm trying not to go into this one EXPECTING it to be better than Ragnarok. That's too high of expectations, and very likely to not meet them simply because Ragnarok is currently my favorite MCU project.

I read a thing online last night about how test audiences for the movie said that Christian Bale's Gorr is the best MCU villain so far. That would be great if it turns out to be true!

I'd love to see Thor reach an even higher level of power in this movie, and achieve the Odinforce (or Thorforce?)!

If we're ranking MCU shows, I have to play along. I'm just going to do MCU and Netflix shows since I never watched network shows like Agency's of Shield.

Wandavision - This was awesome. I especially loved all the theorizing as each episode was released.

Daredevil - Seasons 1 & 3 were great. I wasn't a huge fan of season 2 . I really hated Karen Page and the whole Frank Castle storyline.

Jessica Jones - Season 1 is the single best season of any MCU show. If they stopped there, this would be my #1. Season 2 sucked, and I honestly can't remember season 3. I want a big fan of the Patsy storyline.

Hawkeye - I really enjoyed it, despite the issues.

Loki - Alligator Loki is awesome.

Ms. Marvel - So far...we'll see how it goes

Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Enjoyable show, but I was hoping for more.

Luke Cage - Again, season 1 was good. The rest sucked.

The Punisher

The Defenders - Felt like Iron Fist Season 2. Not good, but it had a lot of redeeming qualities.

Iron Fist - So many problems, but it was at least entertaining enough to watch

What If - I stopped watching halfway through

Mom Knight - I watched 3-4 episodes...no interest in finishing it.

Scott wrote:

I'll be honest. I love Thor, and I love Waititi, and I'm excited for a Bale villain, so I KNOW I'm gonna love this movie. But for some reason, my hype levels aren't super high. Could not tell you why if I tried, but I'm sure the movie is gonna be a fun time.

(EDIT: I just saw you mentioned this bit already haha) Apparently, Gorr received the best scores for any Marvel villain during test screenings, so that's something that's got me pumped. I know the MCU has been dogged for forgettable villains (justifiably so), but there are also some top notch villains in there too, so it'll be interesting to see what the deal with Gorr is.

Anyhow, Ms. Marvel episode 2 scared me into thinking they were going to step a bit deeper into the elements of the show that I can't relate to being a 32-year-old dude, but thankfully that didn't happen too hard and what DID happen played into the plot nicely. Really enjoying this show so far.

Ms. Marvel has just been ok for me so far. The first episode was better than the second. I like the overall style of it, like all the animations they put on the screen while real-world stuff is going on, that's fun. My kids seem to be enjoying it more than me, as I expected. It just feels like an average teen show with a tiny bit of superhero stuff sprinkled in so far. I'm assuming that's about to change with how Ep2 ended, but there are only 6 episodes, so there's not a ton of time left. Her powers are unique, but not very interesting overall. Hopefully they'll increase/expand a lot. I'm not liking Kamala as much as I thought I would. Going into the show, I really liked the actress based on interviews and various things I had seen. She seemed like a really sweet/funny kid who loved the source material and was actually getting to be a part of it, awesome. But idk, I'm just not loving her in the show. I don't think it's the actress's fault, I just think the writers haven't made her likeable enough.

Some of this could be on me though. I've been pretty tired the last two nights when we've watched these episodes, so maybe I was just too tired to really get into it.

I finally watched Doctor Strange Multiverse yadda yadda. 4/5 stars, Michael Stuhlbarg was wasted, and

You can tell I don't like kids? :P

Edit: I tried watching Ms. Marvel and the intro made me close the window. I've read the original comic. I know that Kamala was originally written like that. But it's different to read it in a comic and actually hear someone talk like that.

Ms Marvel rules. Best MCU Disney+ show since WandaVision imo (so far). Shame to give up on it so fast.

I haven't given up on it, I just feel I'm not in the right mindset for it at the moment. I'll give it another shot later on.

Watched the 3rd episode of Ms Marvel yesterday. I still feel the same way, it's just, ok. I really wanted to like it more. Hopefully the last 3 episodes can save the show.

Apparently Howard Stern had a hot mic during some ads on his show and accidentally revealed that he’ll either be in or may even be playing Dr. Doom. Not sure how I feel about that one, if true.

https://screenrant.com/doctor-doom-mcu-marvel-movi...

That sounds absolutely horrible.

theJaw wrote:

In a mainline MCU movie? I doubt it.

But in an animated feature or an audio-only project? I could see it happen. There are many different Doctor Dooms in the multiverse (not to mention the sentient Doombot that was a part of the team called the Runaways) and I can definitely imagine him playing one in a What If episode.

I’d doubt it too if he didn’t complain about how grueling the schedule would be over the summer, but we’ll see. I mean, I still doubt it, but who knows.

I bet he's got a bit part doing an interview with Dr doom or something along those lines

"I invented superheroes Robin. Hoohoo."

Did anybody else see Thor: Love and Thunder?? I think I saw only 1, maybe 2 other reviews in the Scores thread. Here are my thoughts that I posted there:

We still need to finish Ms Marvel. I think we have just the finale left. Unless the finale does something insanely awesome, this one is pretty easily my least favorite MCU show so far.

Comic Con Stuff

I think most of the stuff talked about at Comic Con was already announced, but we probably didn't have dates for a lot of them. I Am Groot, She-Hulk, Wakanda Forever, and the GotG Christmas Special are going to close out Phase 4. Next, here's the timeline for (probably) all of Phase 5:

image

I gotta say, there's a lot of stuff in there that I'm only mildly, or not at all interested in. I'm excited for Ant-Man 3, GotG 3, and Loki Season 2. Semi interested in Secret Invasion, The Marvels, and Agatha. That's about it. Overall I think I'm going to like Phase 5 less than Phase 4, but I'll definitely give it all a chance and would love to be wrong!

They didn't include animated shows in the timelines, but we're also getting another season of What If, Marvel Zombies, Spider-Man Freshman Year, and the X-Men cartoon. Thunderbolts is also absent from the timeline for some reason, but will close out Phase 5 on July 26th, 2024.

Now, the big reveal, Phase 6:

image

Obviously there's a lot more coming to fill this in, but TWO AVENGERS MOVIES IN ONE YEAR! I'm really excited to see how this all plays out. A lot of people have speculated that they were building toward Secret Wars and I'm glad they were right. I thought Kang was a very intriguing villain just from the final episode of Loki, and based on what I know of the comics, he's going to be awesome to see more of in the MCU. I really liked how Jonathan Majors played the part. I was starting to feel like they were throwing too many new characters at us with all of these movies and shows, but now that Secret Wars is confirmed, it makes sense. I'm sure they're going to cram a ton of characters into that, maybe even bring back some old characters.

Young Avengers still hasn't been confirmed, I hope they'll do that while my kids are still young, they'll love it.

This Reddit thread has a ton of good info: https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/w6...

I expect Secret Wars will probably get knocked back to the following year, similar to Infinity War & Endgame. I also feel like there will be another Spider-man somewhere toward the end of Phase 5 or beginning of 6, but Marvel can't announce those due to it technically being Sony's property.

I also don't think the animated shows are on the timeline because they're not technically "canon". What If obviously "could" be depending on whether one wants to think that or not, but it's not really treated that way. Really, ANYthing could be, but if we're going by the "616" universe that acts as our anchor, I believe the animated stuff is off that timeline. It was originally announced that Spider-man: Freshman Year was going to be a prequel of sorts to Spider-man: Homecoming, but then they released visuals of Doc Ock and Scorpion, which wouldn't fit that timeline, and Norman Osborne is apparently Peter's mentor in that series. X-Men 97's Xavier possibly made an appearance in Multiverse of Madness via Patrick Stewart, but I also doubt that show will tie in at all. Interested to see how they handle Xavier in that show though, considering it's been confirmed a newly-designed Magneto will be the "leader" of the X-Men for the cartoon.

I'm looking forward to just about everything in Phase 5 more than I was looking forward to anything in Phase 4, though I did end up really enjoying a lot of phase 4 (while it had some serious flaws throughout). I think that was the Endgame hangover more than anything though - nothing seemed as important heading into Phase 4 and I just felt "well, I'll watch them when I watch them", but now with Phases 4-6 officially being dubbed "The Multiverse Saga" and with the two Avengers movies being announced, I'm back on the pre-release hype train.

theJaw wrote:

That newly designed Magneto was actually his costume when he acted as the headmaster for Xavier's school after Xavier was taken from Earth to heal from some injuries. A bunch of other stuff happened which made Magneto change his tune for some time. This storyline was published before others that were featured in the original show, but it probably wasn't adapted since it relied on other crossover events and characters that were not featured there.

http://marvelcrossovers.blogspot.com/2021/06/the-t...

Ahh gotcha, so it's a comic design new to the show. Pretty neat. Must have missed those issues but I dig the design for sure, though I will somewhat miss the classic 90s look.

theJaw wrote:

It's an era of the comics that isn't remembered very much by a lot of folks, except for New Mutants fans. Magneto was their teacher during this time period, and they show him respect in the current storylines. I only learned about this stuff a few years before the MCU started so don't feel bad for not knowing about them. :)

Secret Wars was my favorite limited series growing up so this week be bitter sweet for me. I just don't see how they can be true to the series. The Beyonder and Doctor Doom are huge parts of that series and I'd be disappointed if they just go with Kang and a few lesser baddies like Absorbing Man, Klaw, and Enchantress. They could have Magneto by then I guess. I don't see them bringing back Ultron either. I know it'll be a good movie but dang, do it right if you're going to do it.

Even the writers have come out and confirmed that Secret Wars was just a toy commercial haha. I love it too but ya gotta admit it was really just a mishmash of cool character designs. Plus the MCU always switches things up compared to the comics. Kang (and Jonathan Majors) rules, so I’m looking forward to what they give us.

Fantastic Four comes first though, so I have to imagine Doom will be involved somehow.

Foxhack wrote:

I may seek them out, they look very fun.

RE: Wakanda Forever. Who's in the Black Panther suit? My thoughts:

I think that'd be very neat, and very fitting given the end of the first Black Panther.

theJaw wrote:

Yeah, there will definitely be a Spider-Man movie in there I can't wait to see all the stuff that fills in Phase 6.

Did you see Feige confirmed that Spider-Man and Daredevil will be handling the "street level" threats?

I'll keep watching new Spider-Man movies for as long as they make them, but after the way NWH ended, I'm honestly not that excited for the (near) future of Spider-Man. It's cool how they pulled off a "reset" for him, but I'm just having trouble getting excited for this step backward, after seeing Spider-Man do such huge things.


I thought I read a while back that Feige had said What If was canon. I could be remembering wrong though.


I actually enjoyed Phase 4 a lot. Shang-Chi, No Way Home, and Love and Thunder were all great, Multiverse of Madness was really good, and Eternals and Black Widow were decent, not nearly as bad as many made them out to be IMO. On top of that, we got a lot of great shows that introduced some new characters and propelled some new storylines. I did have that feeling of "where is all of this going" like you referenced, but I could tell they were starting to build toward something, so I was fine with waiting and seeing. I'd say the Multiverse Saga is off to a much better start than the Infinity Saga. I'd watch Phase 4 over Phase 1 any day, and pretty easily over Phase 2 as well.

I'll give everything in Phase 5 a chance, I'm just not super excited for a lot of it at the moment. I liked Echo in Hawkeye, but didn't feel like she needed her own show. I never saw the original Blade movies, plus I'm pretty sure the new one is going to be rated R so I probably can't take my kids to see it, so that's why that one's not on my radar. I'm excited for another young hero in Ironheart simply because I'm sure my kids will enjoy that (like Ms Marvel), but it doesn't really excite me. I still haven't seen the original Daredevil show and I'm not sure I want to (looks a bit too R for my taste), but I want to be excited about the character and new show, so idk about that one. Finally, Captain America...I've always liked Sam Wilson / Falcon, but his show just did not sell me on him being Captain America, at all. I'd be a lot more excited if he had at least ended up getting the serum and was "enhanced", but a Captain America without the superhuman strength just sounds boring to me. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by that one though.

theJaw wrote:

I like that idea

theJaw wrote:

If they can get a good, strong actor to pull off a villainous Doom, I’d be all on board with that.

back4more wrote:

Howard Stern already said he did some stuff as Doom... ;)

A video talking about old shows and movies, the proto-MCU if you want

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhpNqlzWb8I

Best1989 wrote:

I watched those old Hulk movies on TV when they aired. That show is one of the reasons I like the character so much despite Marvel not knowing what to do with him anymore.

Foxhack wrote:

That’s scary :(

I still haven't seen Thor. I guess a combination of a busy life and lackluster reviews lowered my excitement.

I am not very excited for Sue Hulk. On one hand, I like how she's more closely related to the Netflix show world (being from Hell's Kitchen), and I love Tatiana Maslaney. Ok the other hand, the trailers have looked goofy af, and I really don't like Smart Hulk. My guess is he'll probably only be in one episode, although I could be wrong. I hope this one proves me wrong.

Most of She-Hulk's run has been goofy in that fourth wall breaking way that Deadpool ripped off really hard. Nothing would make me laugh more than to see Ryan Reynolds Deadpool show up and get sued by Jen in a trial over it, but I know that won't happen.

bonham2 wrote:

Ignore the reviews and just see what you think yourself. Our tastes have seemed fairly similar, I bet you'll like it.

I would never have sex with anyone not named Mark Ruffalo for the record, this Shulk dog can fudge off

Anyone else watch I Am Groot yet? I had read that they were going to be "shorts", but for some reason I was thinking like 15-20 minute episodes, with unconnected storylines. But no, they're very short, like 4 minutes each after you factor in the brief intro, and credits. There were kinda cute and funny, and my family had a good time watching them together, but they weren't anything special. I was hoping for some kind of fun adventure storyline for young Groot. Oh well. This one easily falls at the very bottom of my ranking.

I'm still hoping She Hulk is Green Ally McBeal with superheroes.

Crossing my fingers.

I'm feeling pretty optimistic about She-Hulk. I think I'm going to end up liking it a lot.

Watched the first episode of She-Hulk last night, I thought it was great! If it keeps up with how good the first episode was, this could easily end up being one of my favorite MCU shows, up there with WandaVision and Loki. I love that it's a straight-up comedy, I like lots of humor in the MCU. I'm glad Hulk is in the show too. Hopefully he plays a big role in the rest of the series, and wasn't just there for the first episode. Hulk's "Smart Hulk" look is much better here than it was in Endgame. They definitely improved She-Hulk's CGI as well, I have no problems with it.

A neg and 0 replies. Love this "discussion" thread!

She Hulk is wonderful so far, I agree. Real fun stuff & yah, the CG is far better than the trailers.

Also apparently the space ship at the start of the episode is teasing a World War Hulk movie/show. That’d be badass.

Well, it wasn't me! I have no interest in it either way. Why am I even watching this topic????? IGNORE.

I was away this week. Just got back and watched She-Hulk. It was way better than I expected. I don't get the online hate. The CGI seems better than the trailer, although she still seems very uncanny vally-ish. I'll say it again...I absolutely love Tatiana Maslaney. I liked the show better when she was herself.

I agree with everything Scott said...and I even plussed you to counter @Kommie 's neg (I know he's reading this).

I guess a couple of the review bombers found our thread!

theJaw wrote:

I read that as well. I don't know much about that, but I know people on r/marvelstudios mention it very frequently. So I'm guessing it's a really cool storyline that could make for a great movie/show, I'm down for that.

bonham2 wrote:

Same here, she's great!


definitely.

Sooooo.....I touched in this in another thread, is it just quips, or is there actual comedy. Thor 4 really turned me off to the quips.

@razeak I answered ya in the other thread lol

How is a quip not "actual comedy"?

theJaw wrote:

I know, looking for a concensus lol.


@scott I guess I mean the non stop quip machine isn't the comedy I'm looking for anymore. Of course it's comedy. It's just I don't know....low effort and kind of mind numbing the way MCU is doing it. Thor 4 just jumped the shark for me, even though I loved some of it (like the Jean-Claude Van Damme homage in the opening Thor scene )

I'll probably give it a go this weekend.

IDK, I guess I don't see the difference. If something is funny, it's funny, doesn't matter what form it came in.

For sure different forms of comedy, styles etc..MCU is in a pattern of overuse. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but the last several films have started to wear on me due to overuse and over reliance on quips and sight gags. There is also an issue with poor tone during otherwise serious scenes or moments that get pointless quips crammed in. They absolutely shouldn't abandon humor, but maybe step back and try a different approach.

Or just know when to implement it better. I loved Love and Thunder but can’t pretend the criticisms against the overly goofy tone are inaccurate. It definitely was more a Taika Waititi movie than your standard “Thor movie”. I’m all in on that but can understand if others aren’t.

But with She Hulk, it works far more naturally. The show was clearly conceived as a comedy first, and so it fits a lot better and is necessary for the character and story they’re telling.

Conceived as a comedy makes me see it in a different light.

I though Ragnarok was the upper limit for goofy. Occasionally goofy Thor is great. Imbecile Thor not so much.

To be fair, I'll say it again, the JCVD homage was perfect haha.

razeak wrote:

This is definitely a fair criticism. It doesn't bother me, but I understand others not liking it.

razeak wrote:

I'd say Ragnarok and Love & Thunder were both conceived as comedies too.

I do prefer Ragnarok/Infinity War Thor over L&T Thor. L&T was partially about how sad and direction-less Thor was at that time, and the way he acted reflected that. He now has direction and a purpose again, so I think the next time we see him he'll be more back to his Ragnarok/Infinity War self.

She-Hulk episode 4 was the best one yet IMO. I thought the whole Madissyn storyline was hysterical. "Wongers, can we get Fro Yo?"

I'm going to have to wait until at least Monday to watch the latest episode. We didn't have a chance last night and my daughter is going to be gone all weekend on a youth retreat.

I've not uttered or typed a bad word about She-Hulk, but my social media is inundated with ads with Anti Complainer/Anti Critic ads and articles. I saw 4 just now after just a few minutes of scrolling.

@Scott It still has to be of SOME quality and good timing even if conceived as a comedy, which is where I think Love & Thunder stumbled. MCU just got to the point I'm shocked Tony Stark didn't make a quip when Peter Parker got snapped out of existence like "Oh...SNAP!" or something else. lol. There are moments where levity is needed in a story.

I definitely have to watch Love and Thunder again at some point, because there was a lot I did enjoy, and my wife hasn't watched it yet.

bonham2 wrote:
The post credit scene was pretty funny too..
This episode also made me feel really bad for Jen Walters simply because everyone is all about her as She-Hulk, but no one cares about her as herself..
Also, the first date she goes on was hysterical...

It was pretty funny when She-Hulk carried that huge guy off to bed. If I woke up in the morning to Tatiana Maslaney, I would definitely stick around.

razeak wrote:

I don't know, Ragnarok had a ton of humor. Based on the trailers for L&T I figured it was going to be even wackier and funnier, so no surprise there. That said, I still didn't think it was TOO funny. The movie handled a lot of serious moments without any humor, like Jane's cancer, Gorr's scene with his daughter in the very beginning, and Gorr's final scene.

Like I mentioned, we've been re-watching all of the MCU in order. I wish I had thought of it sooner since we're already up to Age of Ultron, but I'm going to try to keep an eye out for humor during serious moments. I really feel like this has been blown out of proportion, and it's not done nearly as much as people claim. Here's the thing though, I don't think humor during a serious moment is automatically bad. It strongly depends on the nature of the serious moment, but a lot of the time, I think a little humor to break the silence/tension after something serious happens is fine. To be fair though, I love to laugh, and in superhero movies I'm mostly just looking for action and humor, not super serious stuff, so maybe I'm biased. I saw a comment on Reddit where they pointed out how this is common in real life. A lot of times, people handle serious stuff by making a joke. So why is it so bad in movies?

razeak wrote:

That's more of a Star-Lord joke, tbf.

Watching episode 4 of She-Hulk now. I LOVE the crap Jennifer says during the fourth wall breaking moments.

Maybe not the exact quote but whatev.

Poor Jen.

And I REALLY didn't like that the strong lady from episode 1 turned out to be Titania. #notmyskeeter

Hey David Otunga’s in this episode. That fella was in WWE for a while.

Scott wrote:


It isn't automatically bad, but it can be overdone, and that is where I feel MCU is at.

Just watched Thor Love and Thunder and loved it. I've come to the realisation it's going to take a lot for me to hate these movies. I think there have only been two, second Thor and Moon Knight, that underwhelmed me.

beavis wrote:

In contrast, I had to stop Thor Love and Thunder 40 minutes in. I HATE Thor in this. He's too gosh darn stupid. What did Taika do to him?

Here's my take on why thor is like this in this movie:
If you look at the history of his story in the MCU, he never came to Earth until he was banished by Odin. In that time, he made friends with Jane and the Avengers. Over that time, some of their mannerisms definitely shaped him.

Move on to Ragnarok, where he loses his dad, his hammer, his eye and his home in a short period of time. That definitely took a toll on him mentally. Then, he lost almost everyone else (Loki, Heimdall) to Thanos. He couldn't kill Thanos before the snap, and he pretty much gave up and hit rock bottom (hello dad bod Thor).

Now in love and thunder, he spent a lot of time with the GOTG, where even though he was still finding himself, their demeanor and attitude towards everything was very childish and Blaise, so that obviously pulled thor in that direction.

As the movie progresses, you can see Thor become more humble and starting to begin transitioning back to some semblance of his past self, especially with the ending. Granted, he did appear goofier and less astute in this films beginning,but once he found a purpose to lead and fight, he turned back into badass thor.

I think his character arc came full circle by the end of L&T, and with all the new responsibility as well as having closure with one chapter of his life, I think he will return to his OG bad ass persona, but not without some of the humor still appearing from time to time.

Yea I thought his personality was very on point for the events that lead up to the movie and I'm kinda confused on the negative reaction to this.

Definitely enjoying She-Hulk, this newest episode was fun. I really do enjoy the VERY ground-level vibe of the show, to the point where the main antagonist up to this point's only plot was to sue Jennifer over use of the name "She-Hulk", and the comedic way they go about that whole issue is a breath of fresh air for the MCU imo.

However, the tease at the end of this episode has me SLIGHTLY worried...

Really just a small worry. MCU has a good enough track record that I have faith, it just seems like a REAL deviation from what we got previously.

shadyfozzie wrote:

Agree 100% I think the next time we see Thor, he'll be more like the Thor of Ragnarok/Infinity War, which was his best IMO.

I'm behind on 2 episodes of She-Hulk now. We've been trying to catch up on Cobra Kai, but I'm sure we'll get to them soon.

I'm really liking She-Hulk. I went into it knowing it wouls be cheesy, but I'm really liking the humor. If it was supposed to be serious with some goofy humor mixed in, I probably wouldn't like it that much.

I dunno, rewatching Love and Thunder now… I think folks were a bit too quick to judge the character himself based off the first half without taking the film as a whole. Thor is purposely acting dumb in the first half, that’s his personality, and he’s grown somewhat bored of his role in the universe. After being reacquainted with Jane and realizing the extent of her situation, he almost immediately snaps back into “mature” Thor. Almost the entire second half of the movie, at least starting from the veeeeeery awesome black & white fight scene, Thor is as much a “badass” as he’s ever been, and finally found himself able to care for others more than himself in a way he hadn’t yet achieved.

I think Thor arriving to Wakanda in Infinity War, with the whole “bring me Thanos” bit, was my favorite on-screen depiction so far, but also feel that’s rivaled by the last 30-40 minutes of Love and Thunder.

Also, I love Christian Bale in this movie, maybe the most unique performance he’s ever offered. But folks pretending like he was wasted due to the comedic tone in contrast to his character HAD to have ignored how over-the-top and scenery-chewing Gorr was throughout. He didn’t “quip”, but he was DEFINITELY goofy in plenty of his screen time. And then similar to the other characters, got real serious when it was appropriate.

Even Natalie Portman hit her performance well. I thought the scenes of her as cancer-riddled Jane were super emotional, and juxtaposed with her as The Mighty Thor was super satisfying.

It’s just a fun movie, I really, really can’t understand the MAJOR issues with it that some folks have. Yes, a few gags broke the weight of a scene during the first half, but it really wasn’t enough to kill the movie for me. The back half of this movie rules SO hard, and it wouldn’t have without what came prior imo.

Finally watched ep 4 of She-Hulk, I'm still really enjoying it. My only complaint is that we're supposed to believe it's hard for Tatiana Maslany to get a decent date, and that even some below average dudes wouldn't be that interested in her. lol @ "wongers".

Welp…. apparently Harrison Ford is taking over William Hurt’s role as Thunderbolt Ross in the Thunderbolts movie.

#RedHulkHarrisonPls

It's hard for me to explain why I had mixed feelings about the new Thor movie, but what I can say is Thor was annoying as FACK that I feel I need to go back and re-watch the other Thor films to make sure he wasn't always this annoying. Despite appearances and being the bad guy, I liked Bale's performance.

As for She-Hulk, I'm enjoying it with one MAIN issue... the episodes are SO FREAKIN' SHORT!!!
Also, I am slightly annoyed w/ the whole dating thing... Perhaps it's because of my own personal history w/ dating, socializing, etc... but I'll get past all that.

Finally watched Thor Love and Thunder. It really says something that it took me this long to finally get around to it. I also have mixed feelings. I feel like the Thor humor in Ragnorak and Infinity War was good because Thor still took himself seriously. The jokes were more at Thor's expense because he took himself so seriously. The Thor humor in Infinity War came more from the Guardians, which is in line with their characters. I really didn't like Thor in Endgame, but at least he got serious towards the end. A lot of L&T was just stupid, and Thor is a punchline at this point. I didn't like that they added a whole new off screen story between Thor and Jane...It made me feel like I missed a whole movie. Their relationship in this one just didn't work. And he went from the God of Thunder, future king of Asgard, and son of Odin to a pussy-whipped b*tch.

And in every other Thor movie, he has an arc. You could say Thor's arc is the best in the MCU (only rivaled by MAYBE Tony Stark). He goes from an egotistical narcissist that seeks out way for glory, to a worthy future king that learns to love. He goes from being the "Lord of Hammers" to being the true Lord of Thunder in Ragnorak. Then he deals with massive grief during and after Infinity War. He deals with the loss of his father, mother, brother, best friend, home planet, and half of his people, only followed by the biggest battle loss of his life when Thanos snaps his fingers (which Thor blames himself for)...his grief makes Wanda's seem silly by comparison.

What was his ark in this movie? Love is the most important thing? In fact, he loses over and over again against Gor, and then at the end, basically gives up because of love? I don't get it.

He’s grown bored of his role in the universe having defeated Thanos and treats life like a never ending vacation until he reunites with Jane Foster, who’s illness and inevitable death puts life itself back in perspective for Thor. He then realizes he needs to grow up and gains purpose by the end of the movie, both literally and metaphorically. Fairly straightforward arc tbh, I feel folks were just so blindsided by his goofy nature in the first half of the movie that it became the only thing that's really discussed when it comes to his character. He was more or less back to badass Thor for the whole second half of the movie.

theJaw wrote:

Was he? I seem to remember a one-sided conversation with Stormbreaker towards the end of the movie.

I mean of course the humor will still be there, that's the MCU, but despite a joke or two, once that black and white fight scene takes place, Thor is focused and honed in like he had been in the past. Admittedly, I didn't really notice that the first time I watched it and it took a re-watch to catch it. The first time through, I was a little more understanding of that particular criticism, but the after seeing it again I just can't help but disagree with it.

I imagine that's because I went into my second watch with a little bit more of analytical brain due to the backlash, instead of the first watch, where I just wanted to be entertained. I wanted to see if I thought it was really as bad as folks were saying so I actively paid harder attention to the way the character came off when I watched it again. There's definitely still humor but once the weight of the situation hits him (both the threat to the children and Jane's life situation), he snaps out of the more lackadaisical approach.

All that said, they did sort of drive the Stormbreaker joke into the ground, as well as the screaming goat stuff.

I thought the goats were really funny (although definitely beaten into the ground a bit). I'm fine with that humor, and I'm fine with humor in general. Thor Ragnorak and Infinity War are two of my favorite MCU films, and they obviously had tons of humor. I just wish they didn't turn Thor, himself, into such a joke.

I know it has been mentioned before, but my other issue was how they treated the GotG. Why have him go with them and kind of take over as their leader at the end of Endgame if they were just going to recon that whole story? Honestly, I got some Rian Johnson Last Jedi vibes from this movie. It's like they had a story they wanted to tell but didn't care where Thor's story had led him after Endgame. Same thing with Jane Foster. They needed there to be more of a relationship to tell the story they wanted to tell, so they imagined it off screen.

I'm still enjoying She-Hulk, but I've been a little less into it for the last 2 or 3 episodes now. I was enjoying that it was more of a comedy, but I figured they were still building toward some sort of bigger storyline, maybe even a main villain. But now, there are only 2 episodes left and very little has actually happened. Hopefully it ends strong!

Just watched She Hulk Ep 8. It was fine but there are some iffy things.

Otherwise it was a fine episode. I too think they could have integrated a bit more story into the one-off comedy episodes but I wasn't expecting that heading into the show so I can't say I'm let down by it. It's just that now that they're starting to build toward something within the last 3-4 episodes, I would have liked there to have been more of that to strengthen the stakes a bit. BUT I'm still enjoying it and I think if they stick the finale's landing, it still holds up as a real good time for me.

More I think about it, the more I'm fine with it...

Only experience I had with the Charlie Cox Daredevil is the Defenders.... and I couldn't quite watch that all the way through... Maybe I'm more favoring the Ben Affleck movie... I don't know. Disney+ has the Daredevil series available to watch. I've been told by fellow classmates they liked the separate serieses better than the Defenders series, so maybe I'll like watching the standalones.

May or may not watch it before the new Daredevil starts showing though depending on how things develop for me job-wise, etc.

theJaw wrote:

The Daredevil-She Hulk fight had to be CGI... it wasn't terrible, but you could tell a lot was CGI.
The fight in the factory however, was more Daredevil like which made up for it.

I like his "updated" MCU personality. Feels more true to the comic books where characters aren't so serious all the time. I thought the original take in the Daredevil Netflix series was "too brooding.

Yes, the CGI wasn't great, much like The Rings of Power CGI battle from Episode 6. I've learned to live with it...though it is still jarring to see the obviousness of the CGI.

Gonna watch Werewolf By Night tonight.

Sun wrote:

Yeah I like it just fine, and it's just like when a new creative team gets control of a comic. It's bound to change up a bit.

It's definitely accurate to certain takes on his comic counterpart, but the Netflix Daredevil was VERY accurate to the Frank Miller Daredevil (which it adapted lots of). He was Mr. Broody in those books, but it made sense for the story being told. I thought he was adapted perfectly in the Netflix show given that story, and I feel like folks forget how charismatic he was as just Matt Murdock. He wasn't 100% serious all the time, just most of it haha

And like I said, if one wants to just consider this "new" personality as the same Netflix character 4 years after besting his biggest rival, saving his city and putting his personal demons to rest, I think that tracks fine. He's not as angsty because nothing he does is as personal as the events of the Netflix series. But it does come down to to Born Again to show us the side characters and whatnot before we can tell whether this truly is a full-on reboot or not.

Werewolf By Night was entertaining.

Just watched Werewolf By Night. I fudging LOVED that. I really hope it becomes a Halloween tradition, that’d be so badass.

Werewolf By Night was my 7th 31 Nights (Movies) of Halloween. I really enjoyed it!

She Hulk is a show that knew its audience far better than it ever let on, and far more than a certain portion of its audience ever realized (or would admit). That being the "creepy incel loser" portion. The finale approaches just about every “issue” the internet concocted head-on using its own brand of meta. Every single creepy dude whining about “pandering” or this brand of “strong female character" was obliterated by this finale and it ruled so hard. Those dudes who were hate-watching the show must be near-Hulk levels of pissy right now.

At the same time, I could also see how some level-headed, non-creep MCU fans may sort of shake their heads at it. But I loved it, chef's kiss. Here's to more She Hulk in the future, whether it be another season or a role in the larger MCU.

Still haven't finished She-Hulk. We only have 2 episodes left, but it's been harder to find time to all sit down together and watch stuff with how busy we've been. My wife and I did watch Werewolf by Night though. I enjoyed it overall and would love to see more stuff like it in the future. But, I feel like the ending didn't deliver as well as the first ~2/3 of the movie did.

I'm not particularly hyped about Wakanda Forever. Black Panther was just ok, not nearly as good as many make it out to be (IMO, of course). Plus, the main aspect I did enjoy about Black Panther was T'Challa, and him not being able to be in WF doesn't help matters. I'm probably just going to wait and watch it on D+. The trailer for the GotG Holiday Special didn't excite me nearly as much as I thought it would, but it will probably be decent. So, it's basically just downtime for me for a while, until Quantumania comes out. I'm really looking forward to that one though. After that, I'm excited for Secret Invasion, GotGv3, and Loki S2. That's the only stuff I'm super excited for in 2023, but I'll check out most of the other things as well.

Went ahead and updated my full ranking. I doubt the last 2 episodes of She-Hulk are going to change where I place it, but I'll update it if so. Our re-watch of the MCU has slowed down severely ever since the school year started up plus extracurriculars, but we did watch Age of Ultron and Ant-Man over the last couple months. AoU stayed in the same spot, but I actually moved Ant-Man up a few spots. I never disliked it, just thought it was ok, but each time I re-watch it I seem to enjoy it more and more. I didn't change Ms Marvel's spot, but I did move it into my bottom tier. Not sure why I didn't put it there to begin with.

39. I Am Groot!
38. The Incredible Hulk
37. Iron Man 3
36. Iron Man 2
35. Iron Man
34. Thor
33. Ms. Marvel
-----------------------------------------------------------------
32. Doctor Strange
31. Eternals
30. Thor: The Dark World
29. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
28. What If…?
27. Werewolf by Night
26. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
25. Guardians of the Galaxy
24. Captain America: The First Avenger
23. Black Widow
22. Hawkeye
21. Ant-Man
20. Spider-Man: Homecoming
19. Black Panther
-----------------------------------------------------------------
18. Captain Marvel
17. Moon Knight
16. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
15. Loki
14. Spider-Man: Far From Home
13. Ant-Man and the Wasp
12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
-----------------------------------------------------------------
10. The Avengers
9. Avengers: Age of Ultron
8. Captain America: Civil War
7. WandaVision
6. Thor: Love and Thunder
5. Spider-Man: No Way Home
4. Avengers: Endgame
3. Avengers: Infinity War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
1. Thor: Ragnarok

Among your tiers I don't think mine would differ that much, although Loki and the first Cap would be tier 1 for me and Civil War and Age of Ultron tier 2. I think the only thing I haven't watched is Werewolf by Night, been saving that for a Halloween night watch.

Small update, we re-watched Doctor Strange and I enjoyed it more than ever this time. After looking at my rankings, I decided it needed to move up a bit. Also, we finally finished the last couple episodes of She-Hulk a week or so ago. They were both really good, but not enough to make me change where I ranked it.

39. I Am Groot!
38. The Incredible Hulk
37. Iron Man 3
36. Iron Man 2
35. Iron Man
34. Thor
33. Ms. Marvel
-----------------------------------------------------------------
32. Eternals
31. Thor: The Dark World
30. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
29. What If...?
28. Werewolf by Night
27. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
26. Doctor Strange
25. Guardians of the Galaxy
24. Captain America: The First Avenger
23. Black Widow
22. Hawkeye
21. Ant-Man
20. Spider-Man: Homecoming
19. Black Panther
-----------------------------------------------------------------
18. Captain Marvel
17. Moon Knight
16. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
15. Loki
14. Spider-Man: Far From Home
13. Ant-Man and the Wasp
12. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
-----------------------------------------------------------------
10. The Avengers
9. Avengers: Age of Ultron
8. Captain America: Civil War
7. WandaVision
6. Thor: Love and Thunder
5. Spider-Man: No Way Home
4. Avengers: Endgame
3. Avengers: Infinity War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
1. Thor: Ragnarok

I don't know where Werewolf by Night falls into my list. I enjoyed it, but it feels like it doesn't belong in the MCU. It was ok, but after all the hype, I was very underwhelmed.

Yeah, it felt very out of place. I still liked it though. I'm fine with them doing more projects like that, that are technically part of the MCU, but mostly separate.

Watched GotG Holiday Special last night. That was such an unexpected fun movie/special. I love Drax and Mantis. They are so funny. It's clear though that Chris Pratt and Dave Bautista are out of superhero shape. Quill must have eaten that one extra cheeseburger. Also, I remember Bautista complaining about going shirtless in his 50s, so he got around that with a skin colored sweatshirt.

I assumed they filmed the Christmas special at the same time as GotG3, did they not? I would have thought they'd definitely need to be in shape for the latter.

I dunno about Pratt, and despite what Bautista said about his body, I’d say the dude is still pretty gd fit. Far more than I’ll ever be.

This is from this year’s Glass Onion:
image

Maybe I'm wrong. Quill looked extra wide. And I thought Drax looked weird with a shirt on. It didn't take away from the special though. I loved Christmas Time is Here at the beginning.

bonham2 wrote:

I'm just gonna choose to believe your initial assessment, if only to feel better about my own chunky ass.

New Ant-Man trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WfTEZJnv_8

I was thinking Kang would totally off Scott Lang, but now I feel like this trailer is telegraphing it too much. I imagine Pym bites the dust instead, maybe even both Hank AND Janet.

It's wild that the Ant Man movie is going to be the one that sets the MCU off into its huge new direction. After Ant Man and the Wasp, I was worried he'd always be B-tier.

theJaw wrote:

Same here. I thought it was almost guaranteed, now I think it's unlikely lol


I'm loving it. Ant-Man/Paul Rudd is awesome. I liked Ant-Man and the Wasp more than most people, but Quantumania is definitely going to be on a whole other level.

@Scott Ant-Man and the Wasp is one of my buddy's favorite MCU movies, I just don't see it haha. I mean it's a good movie for sure but a FAVORITE? I dunno, I liked the first Ant-Man a lot more. But yah, Quantumania seems like it's going to be friggin wild.

Is that MODOK in the trailer? If so, is he still gonna be voiced by Patton Oswalt?

@theJaw I wouldn't quite call it a favorite, but it's #13 in my ranking, close to the top of my 2nd tier. I wish it had a better villain, but the movie is just so much fun anyway.

That is indeed MODOK in the trailer, and he appears to be played by

based on the trailer. Most people probably didn't catch that (I didn't, saw it in Reddit comments) so I guess I'll put in a spoiler tag just in case it would ruin somebody's life.

Awwww phooey. But also that's pretty neat haha.

Ant Man is up next. If anyone had told me 10 years ago that we would be about to get Ant Man 3, I would have called them batsh*t crazy.

Yeah, I like how back when Ant-Man was first announced everybody took it as a joke, and in reality he has been involved with a lot of pivotal stuff in the MCU.

Black Panther will be on Disney Plus on Feb 1. Looking forward to seeing that.

I look forward to re-watching it with the lady because my theater-going experience was pretty awful for that movie. Folks who are 6'6 should NOT be crammed into tiny theater seats for 3 hours, I can tell ya that. Hoping that being able to sprawl out on the couch will help me enjoy it a bit more.

I'm so pumped for Quantumania, I hope it delivers as well as it seems it's going to from the trailers!

We've still been working through our re-watch. We finished up Endgame over the weekend. We're skipping Far From Home because we re-watched that one just before No Way Home, so next up is Black Widow and we'll officially be in Phase 4! I'm glad we'll be completely caught up in time for Quantumania. Also, I'm really excited to watch all of the Phase 4 movies again. Other than No Way Home, we've only seen each of them once, and we haven't seen Wakanda Forever at all.

I wonder what everybody's take is on Phase 4 as a whole. Some people seem to hate it and think the MCU is doomed. Others think they're just setting stuff up.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I think MOST of the shows have been unnecessary, although I absolutely loved WandaVision. Loki was really good too, and I liked Hawkeye for what it was. I feel like everything has just been wildly inconsistent. Dr. Strange and Spiderman felt like MCU of old. Thor and She Hulk were goofy. Eternals and Shang Chi just felt out of place. Werewolf By Night felt REALLY out of place. I want to believe they have some grand plan to pull this all together like Endgame, but I don't think they do.

Shang Chi felt out of place? Huuuh? It felt like the only straight-forward MCU movie of the bunch to me. Eternals, I agree. That movie wasn't good, and seemed like it was from a different universe. It felt like an old mid-2000s X-Men sequel. That said, I still think it'll lead to SOMEthing... they can't just ignore the celestial head popping out of the ocean.

I liked Phase 4 for the most part. There were like 2 or 3 projects that I didn't like... Eternals, Moon Knight, and Hawkeye introduced potential halfway through and then fumbled it entirely. But that's been the case for all the phases, imo. I thought Iron Man 2 was bad, I thought Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron were disappointing, didn't love Civil War, etc etc. Par the course. There were just so many projects in Phase 4, and the pandemic definitely had an effect, so it was definitely a little unbalanced compared to other phases.

I honestly think some folks just got SO attached to the MCU for finally adapting this great source material correctly to film, and I totally understand that. I'm right there too. But I also feel like those same folks gave a little too much credit to the MCU overall to the point that anything "new" or off the beaten path will be considered a disappointment. Other than Shang Chi, Multiverse of Madness was my favorite of the bunch, and that didn't even hit 80% on RT. Love and Thunder was NOT as bad as some folks pretend it was. Ms Marvel ruled, She Hulk was fun, etc. It's just that they all took different routes than the normal MCU blueprint. They let filmmakers have a bit more control, and I feel that was a good thing, but it seems the majority of MCU fans have rubbed up against it in a negative way. Oh well... it'll be another Star Wars situation where we're gonna be stuck with the status quo and either decide to get over that and put up with it or stop watching. I'll obv put up with it because that status quo is fun, but I also appreciated this little experimental phase.

I loved Phase 4. I prefer it over Phases 1 & 2 for sure, and it's really close to Phase 3. The main reason I would give Phase 3 the slight edge is Infinity War/Endgame. But, those movies were the culmination of 10 years of buildup, so of course they were extremely impactful. I know most won't admit it, but I firmly believe that most people's expectations have been too high after those movies, so now anytime Marvel puts out something that's just good, it's viewed as bad because it's so much less than IW/EG. On top of that, once hate starts to roll in for a thing, there are always people that like to join the bandwagon by hating on that thing too! The anti "anything I perceive as remotely woke" crowd isn't helping matters either.

For me, the only disappointing thing about Phase 4 was that it didn't have an Avengers film like each other phase before it, but that's ok. It did seem a bit "all over the place" with them introducing so many new characters. But, it was clear to me from the start that they were already beginning to set up for the next big thing, and this was confirmed when they announced Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, so I'm 100% on board with what they're doing. I also love that they've been trying new and different things. This is keeping the MCU fresh IMO. I'm a little more mixed on the shows. I only loved WandaVision, Loki, and Moon Knight, but I still enjoyed all of the others except for Ms Marvel. The shows is where they've done the most experimenting with different styles and whatnot, and I'm down with that. For the movies, I'd say Shang-Chi, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Love and Thunder were all great, and Black Widow and Eternals were just ok (still haven't seen Wakanda Forever).

I think the MCU is in a great place right now. I'm so excited to see how things continue to unfold as they keep building toward Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. Maybe they'll even top Infinity War and Endgame, who knows? I try to just ignore the haters these days and hope that they'll get tired and go away so that the rest of us can enjoy all of the awesome Marvel content we're getting!

I'm a MCU mark at this point, so I obviously loved Phase 4. I might be the only person that seemed to think The Eternals was a top 10 MCU movie and I'm really looking forward to a continuation of that story and those characters. I've enjoyed all the shows, but it does feel like they have been setting up Phase 5 for so long I have kind of forgot some of the details (especially Wandavision which I loved). My top 5 from Phase 4 are
5. Shang Chi
4. The Eternals
3. Loki
2. Wandavision
1. Spider Man No Way Home

I don't really consider Werewolf to be a full part of the MCU, but I didn't think What If was either and it has actually played into other stories a bit. I can't explain how much I loved Spider Man No Way Home. If we lose Tom Holland as SM it will be a shame, he has embodied that role so well. It also made me realize I would have enjoyed Toby Maguire more as SM had he played a more mature version of him (I hated the 00 SM movies). It also offered a great redemption for Andrew Garfields SM who I thought was underrated.

Of the upcoming movie and tv series in Phase 5 the only one I'm not really looking forward to is Agatha. It feels like that wasn't a planned series but sprung from the viral hit of the character (which was great, but I don't know how you are going to make a series on it).

I loved Werewolf By Night. One of my favorite aspects of Phase 4. It totally is 100% a part of the MCU, there was something that connected… I can’t remember at the moment, but yah it WAS presented differently a lot differently so I feel ya.

theJaw wrote:

I need to go back and watch it again, I was half paying attention when I watched it and probably missed that.

beavis wrote:

I did like Eternals, much more than most people seemed to, but it's still on the bottom end of my ranking.


I do acknowledge that Werewolf by Night is part of the MCU, but it felt very separate from everything else. The fact that they labeled it as a "special presentation" made it seem like it was more of a side project, not something that was an important part of the core MCU. I loved it though. I don't remember a specific thing that connected it to the MCU, but it's been a few months since I watched it.


Same. My hype for that movie was insane, up there with Infinity War and Endgame. To prepare for it, me and my family went back and re-watched all of the Spider-Man movies. Even my kids who don't generally get "hyped" for something were extremely excited to see it. We went on opening night, and had a really good crowd cheering at all the big moments and everything. It's one of my best memories.


I loved Tobey as Spiderman, but I did enjoy the more mature version of him that we got in NWH. I also loved Andrew Garfield getting to come back and have some big moments. I always loved his Spider-Man and hated that his movies didn't do as well.


For me, the only movie I'm not looking forward to is Blade, simply because I never saw the original. I plan to catch up on that one soon, but I don't know how well it's going to hold up so many years later. I'm torn on New World Order. I want to be thrilled about another Captain America movie, but TF&TWS just didn't convince me he's going to be a good Cap. Most of it is the lack of a super soldier serum, honestly. I wish he had ended up getting that in the show. Also, I feel like Sam was great as a side/backup character, but I don't think he can carry the lead. I'll definitely give it a chance though, and hope to love it. I'm super excited for Quantumania, GotG3, and Thunderbolts, plus The Marvels should be pretty fun. As for the shows, I'm a little more mixed on them. I'm definitely excited for Loki S2. I had almost no interest in Secret Invasion until the trailer dropped, then suddenly I was very excited. I loved Agatha so I'm looking forward to that one as well. I'm only mildly interested in Ironheart and Echo. I want to be excited for Daredevil, I liked him in She-Hulk. But, I still need to watch his original show to get up to speed on the character.

The original Blade Trilogy is fun, but the visuals are VERY rough. Some of it would be difficult to pull off even today.

The Netflix shows were a mixed bag, but Daredevil Seasons 1 & 3 were great. I disliked 2 due to the.Punished and Karen Page story, but it's still a decent season. Jessica Jones Season 1 was great. The rest was ok. I really wish The Defenders was better. I think we need a street level Avengers where the universe isn't always at stake, and The Defenders would have been a good place for that. Maybe it can still happen on the shows. Daredevil, Spiderman, Kingpin, She Hulk, Hawkeye, and Kate Bishop hands all interacted in some way together, so there is hope.

theJaw wrote:

I liked Shang Chi. I just thought the ending was a little far fetched. I was 100% on board until a giant flying dragon came out of the mountain. Other than that, I'll agree that it wasn't that out of place.

I think they had such an impossible task after Endgame. That was 10 years in the making, and they are basically starting over again. I wasn't a huge fan of Phase 1 until later on when I could go back and appreciate it all. Hopefully, I'll feel the same way about Phase 4 once it all starts coming together in the next few Avengers movies.

Lol oh man, the giant dragon fight may have been my favorite thing the MCU has put out… maybe just ever. I remember having legit tears in my eyes by the end of that movie because of the sheer awesomeness placed in front of me haha

We've been trying to finish up our MCU re-watch before Quantumania drops. We recently watched Black Widow, Eternals, Shang-Chi, and Multiverse of Madness. Had to make several changes to my ranking:

41. I Am Groot!
40. The Incredible Hulk
39. Ms. Marvel
38. Eternals
37. Iron Man 3
36. Iron Man 2
35. Iron Man
34. Thor
-----------------------------------------------------------------
33. Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special
32. Thor: The Dark World
31. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
30. What If…?
29. Werewolf by Night
28. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
27. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
26. Doctor Strange
25. Guardians of the Galaxy
24. Captain America: The First Avenger
23. Black Widow
22. Hawkeye
21. Black Panther
-----------------------------------------------------------------
20. Ant-Man
19. Spider-Man: Homecoming
18. Captain Marvel
17. Moon Knight
16. Loki
15. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
14. Spider-Man: Far From Home
13. Ant-Man and the Wasp
12. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
11. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------
10. The Avengers
9. Avengers: Age of Ultron
8. Thor: Love and Thunder
7. Captain America: Civil War
6. WandaVision
5. Spider-Man: No Way Home
4. Avengers: Endgame
3. Avengers: Infinity War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
1. Thor: Ragnarok

Notable changes:
-Dropped Eternals from the bottom of my 3rd tier to almost the very bottom of the list. It's not bad, but it doesn't do anything particularly well either, and I have no interest in ever watching it again.
-Added GotG holiday special. Wasn't going to, but changed my mind.
-Dropped Black Panther a couple more spots. I like the movie, but it's very overrated IMO.
-Dropped Multiverse of Madness a few spots. I enjoyed it, but not as much as the first time. I still think this movie needed to show off more of the multiverse and/or have a bigger impact on the multiverse moving forward.
-Moved Shang-Chi up a few spots. I wish it could be higher because I really love this movie, but it's getting harder and harder to break into my top tier.
-Dropped Ms Marvel even further. Not sure why I had it above the Iron Man movies, that was dumb.

Just watched Black Panther Wakanda Forever. Liked how they handles the Bostwick stuff. Really liked Angela Bassett, especially her calling them all out. Liked Namor, glad to see them keep around an antihero. Obviously they never predicted Bostwick dying but I think the biggest flaw in the Marvel movies so far is killing off Killmonger. Not only was the character insanely cool and Jordan killed it, his story could have easily flipped him to being the BP in the second movie. I felt that Shuri becoming BP was rushed.

We re-watched Love and Thunder and I still don't understand why this movie got so much hate. I still loved it the second time around. The only valid criticism (IMO) is that we really should have gotten more of Gorr. In particular, we should have gotten to see some of him doing his god-butchering thing early in the movie. That said, he had more screen time than I remembered, and considering the whole movie was right around 2 hours (on the shorter end for the MCU), I think the amount of time he got wasn't too bad. I loved the humor, and didn't think it was too much or too goofy. The only attempt at humor that really didn't land for me was Korg being reduced to just a face. I thought that was really dumb and awkward. I kind of want to do a comparison between L&T and Ragnarok some day and count the number of jokes, because I really don't think this one was heavier on the humor, even when it undercuts more serious moments, but most people loved the humor in Ragnarok. One of my favorite scenes the first time I saw the movie was when he gives all of the kids the power of Thor. I still liked it, but it wasn't nearly as epic as the first time seeing it, in the theater. The Shadow Realm was definitely my favorite this time, I wish the battle there had lasted even longer.

Also, we finally watched Wakanda Forever. It was good. Better than I expected without T'Challa. There were a lot of great scenes/moments throughout the film, but the movie as a whole wasn't amazing, just good.

With that, we've officially completed our re-watch and are ready for Quantumania! Unfortunately, it currently has a 52% critic score on RT. This isn't going to stop me from seeing it, I'm still hyped for the movie. But, given how Phase 4 went, this likely spells doom for the movie. Anything sub-80 pretty much sets a negative tone for how the overall public is going to perceive and talk about the movie. I honestly hate that the critic scores can have such a huge effect on how well the movies do, especially when they're released ahead of time. I'd rather the critic scores stay hidden until the movie is available to the public. I think a lot of critics are pretty burnt out on superhero movies at this point. The only movies that are going to get a good score from them from now on are those that do something truly unique (and do it very well), or those that represent marginalized groups, progressive ideals, social justice issues, etc. I'm not against the inclusion of those sorts of things per say, but I don't think films should be rated more highly just because of them. Either way, just being a solid superhero movie will no longer cut it, it seems.

I updated my ranking a couple posts up instead of posting it again. I moved L&T down two spots, and added WF to the ranking.

I’m happy to hear Quantumania is a straight up sci fi movie through and through, but yah it is getting absolutely clobbered by reviewers. I’ll obviously still see it but I’m getting a bit worried now.

Of course I also feel like some folks have been blowing the MCU out of proportion since Endgame released, and was sort of expecting the reception to get worse before it got better. Not sure if the RT score is just hyperbole or not.

I really thought Quantumania was going to be the movie that would start to turn things around in this regard, but now I feel like this is just how it's going to be.

It seems like the public is really starting to get tired of superhero movies in general. It is to be expected after the Infinity saga being a 22-23 movie epic. After Endgame, it's hard to keep people interested. Add into that the saturation of shows on top of the movies. I feel the same way a little. I still haven't completed a few of the shows, and I have no desire to see Black Panther. I WOULD like to see DC get their act together and fix the DCEU. I am dying for a good Superman movie.

I'm not tired of super hero movies with the big guns like Cap, Iron Man, Thor, GotG, Spidey, Strange, etc, but I am tired of hearing about the upcoming slate of movies with B heroes being thrown at us like we're supposed to take it and like it. I don't care about a lineup with headliners like Agatha, Echo, Ms Marvel, Iron Heart and Thunderbolts. I don't mind them being mixed in but I'm not going to get excited and spend money to see them. I get that actors run their course and move on from roles, but treat it like James Bond, plug in a new actor and keep it rolling.

@back4more to be fair, GotG absolutely were not "big guns" when that movie was announced, or even when it was released. Hell, they're still not big guns anywhere besides the MCU. So that sort of thing is required to an extent. There is no forward progression if they don't start introducing new characters and attempting to build them toward a "big gun" position like they did with GotG. And in a huge, sprawling, connected universe, it's a little harder to just recast the characters. It's just like when they cast Kilmer after Keaton dropped out of Batman, there's just no way to pretend that's the same Bruce Wayne. You can't recast Iron Man unless you reboot the entire thing.

@theJaw you are correct GotG were not big guns then but they have been built up to that status now. Like you stated, things like that are required to an extent to forward progression, but you are moving on from the money makers that Marvel comics were built on. The comics don't move on from the big timers when new stuff come around, they work whats hot and in the end most of what they have are the tried and true heroes ..... Cap, Spidey, Thor, Iron Man, etc. I think the Batman movies of the 90'2 are a perfect example of how they can plug in new actors and keep rolling. If you have a new Cap movie every 3-4 years, and rotate the other big dogs similarly, sprinkle maybe a movie a year of something new and see how it grows, would that not be better than going from Phase 3 to what is lined up for Phase 5?

Batman from the 90s is an example of how NOT to do it, in my opinion. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin were so tonally different from the Burton films, and the series suffers as a result. I liked Batman Forever as a kid, but even then I felt it was weird that it looked like a cartoon city. As a result, we wound up getting countless reboots that never advance the plot beyond the origin and a few new bad guys. With Captain America and Iron Man (and Thor to a certain extent), they were able to have full character arcs. They told full stories over a dozen or so films that showed true character growth with an eventual ending. We don't need another series of Iron Man movies. His story is done. If they just continue on forever with new actors, it completely takes away from any drama or any meaningful growth.

I like that Falcon is now Captain America. Steve Rodgers is done. I think we need Iron Heart to move on from Iron Man. Thor might need a new actor...I mean, he's a god that lives for thousands of years.

Meh, MCU might lull for a few years but I think it will pick back up as Multiverse starts to come to a close. But it will be explode again when X-Men are introduced. I could never afford to buy comics as a kid so this is really my way of seeing a cool story play out with characters I was always interested in

bonham2 wrote:

I get it, but I don't feel that way at all. I love the amount of content we've been getting! I really like the shows breaking up the downtime between the big movies, especially when they use the shows to try new and unique things, and introduce new characters who could then show up in movies later (or give more screentime to characters who were in movies but weren't the main character, Yelena is a good example in Black Widow then Hawkeye). That said, I don't like the feeling that I HAVE to watch everything. There's some stuff coming up that I'm really not interested in, but I feel like I'll be missing out on a potentially big/important piece of the MCU if I don't watch it anyway.

Edit: I read something on Reddit recently, there was some comment Feige made in an interview about how they were going to slow down the stream of content soon. I think he was most referring to the shows, but I'm not sure.

back4more wrote:

I don't think most people view it that way. The vast majority of the audience did not read the comics (myself included), so most of the characters all the way back to Iron Man have been brand new to us. I knew Spider-Man from the 90s cartoon and the pre-MCU Spider-Man movies, and I knew Hulk from the old Incredible Hulk show and the pre-MCU Hulk movie, and that was pretty much it. I mean, I knew there was a Captain America in the comics, but didn't know anything about him. I didn't watch the original Captain America because one of the "big guns" was in it, I just wanted to watch a superhero movie. It was sad to lose a couple characters that became big guns to the mainstream audience, but I think we're still just as open as ever to meeting new characters. I know I am, at least. In Phase 4 alone, I love a lot of the new characters...Yelena, Shang-Chi, America Chavez, Namor, Monica Rambeau, Agatha, Mobius, Sylvie, Kang, Kate Bishop, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel (didn't like the show but I liked her), She-Hulk. I'm down to see any of these characters again.

I'm surprised you put Thunderbolts on your list, that's one of the projects I'm most excited for right now! Bucky, Yelena, Red Guardian, US Agent, I think it's going to be great. I'm less excited about Taskmaster and Ghost, but this will give them a second chance to shine. I thought Zemo was supposed to be in it too but I'm not seeing any mention of him now, that's disappointing. Would love for him to show up too, or a Loki, maybe even Namor.

bonham2 wrote:

I agree I wouldn't mind if several years down the road, we get a new version of a past character, from another universe or something, but they definitely don't need to overdo it, or do it too quickly.

Just saw Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. I thought it was great! The critic score on RT is down to 48% now, which is ridiculous. I seriously don't know what their problem was with this movie. I had some minor nit-picks, but overall, it was really enjoyable, and definitely did not feel like just more of the same. The audience score on is 84% though, that's much more reasonable. Make sure you stick around for both credit scenes. The first one in particular is really good.

@Scott that’s great news. Does it really have a Star Wars feel to it?

@back4more I didn't get that feeling while I was watching it, but after seeing a few people mention it on Reddit, I guess I can kinda see the similarity in one scene.

Saw Ant-man, I agree with Scott. Aside from a couple of things that are too convenient just for the sake of moving the plot, I don't have any complaint. Ant-man delivers again, even with the movie style change.

Yeah, I feel like I undersold it, if anything. I wanted to say more, but didn't want to risk spoiling anything, even minor aspects of the film. Just ignore the critics and go see it for yourselves!

Added Quantumania to my ranking. It landed in a funny spot.

It's getting harder and harder to rank new things with how many movies/shows there are total. I used to just kind of go down the list "do I like it better than this? yes, ok check the next movie, do I like it better than that?" and so on. But I'm finding more and more that that doesn't always work perfectly. Sometimes I'll find I like A more than B, but then C is below B and I don't particularly prefer A over C. I'm not going to overthink it anymore and just kind of put things wherever it feels right. It helps having tiers. It divides them up pretty well, and then within each tier, there's really not THAT much difference in my rating of each film.

I watched Ant-man 3 again, this time subbed and in 3D. Some great effects and depth, and a better understanding of Major's interpretation of Kang.

There have been so many posts on Reddit about this movie. Most people on there are ripping it to shreds. I could understand if someone didn't love it, thought it was just "ok" or whatever, but people on there are acting like it's one of the worst movies ever. I don't get it.

What're their biggest complaints, @Scott? Personally, I think it looks great and can't wait to see it. But, like everything else that starts out in the theatre, I'm gonna have to wait 'til it hits "home video" (or, in this case, Disney+).

Bad CGI, bad dialogue, muddled plot, bad humor, bad characters, bad ending, everything bad, basically.

I'll be honest, there are some criticisms that I think are fair:

MAJOR SPOILERS!

But, I thought the rest of the movie was good enough to overlook these things.

I'm being bombarded daily with articles trying to explain why Ant-man is so bad, and who everyone and their mothers blame for this disaster. I'm starting to think there really is some Marvel hate amongst the critics and the press, lol

Yeah, it's pretty dumb.

I haven't seen it yet, but everything I hear from the internet is that it's the worst Marvel movie yet. I hear Kang is great, but everything else is completely pointless with horrible CGI.

Crazy that most of the viewer's comments are positive in contrast to that. Feels like the opposite of Love & Thunder, although this reaction seems more extreme to me. Maybe it is because I can see how L&T is not for everybody.

The funniest part is the amount of people throwing around "worst Marvel movie yet". Even ignoring my personal opinion of each movie, let's just look at the MCU movies that are the most criticized, historically. Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, Eternals, Black Widow, The Incredible Hulk. People really think Quantumania is worse than any of those movies? Come on!

Is The Incredible Hulk officially a part of the MCU? For whatever reason, I didn't think it was...

Noid wrote:

Yeah it is, it's just the black sheep of the MCU because they weren't 100% on Hulk's direction at that point, especially with Edward Norton not enjoying having to commit to a connected universe in order to tell the story. Universal still owns the rights to solo Hulk movies (or at least have since that movie released, that may have changed by now) so once Marvel Studios officially kicked into gear, they could only include Hulk in movies NOT called Hulk haha. I guess they figured it was worth retooling the character given those restraints.

And I'm glad they did, Ruffalo's version is my favorite version of Hulk. Something was off about Norton's version imo.

On the Quantumania backlash: I don't think it's entirely fair to just boil it down to "MCU hate" or anything like that. Several of their projects still received favorable reviews from both critics and viewers over the course of Phase 4... it's possible Quantumania simply doesn't land well for the majority of folks. Doesn't mean it's a bad movie by any means, just means it's not what certain people wanted. Of course I'm sure there is overblown hate toward it, but that sort of happens toward any big franchise these days.

I will say that the bloom is definitely off the MCU rose these days though, meaning that folks seem less willing to give every movie an immediate pass just for being an MCU movie. Like Scott said, there are several "lesser" MCU movies that have been released that still averaged favorably among critics when, honestly, they probably wouldn't have without the MCU connection. Even Hulk and Dark World got "good" scores, generally speaking. Now that Endgame acted as a perfect "finale" for THAT era of the MCU, folks are more willing to scrutinize.

I still haven't seen the movie but still really want to. I like the idea of a super sci-fi Ant Man movie, personally. The comics were always more in that realm than the "wacky heist" genre of the previous two movies (that I also dug enough).

theJaw wrote:

Universal still owns the rights to the Hulk.

And honestly, while Ruffalo does play a good Banner... Norton actually felt much closer to the comic book Banner in some respects. If we had the multiple personality disorder Banner from the comics, I'd definitely go with Norton instead.

(Too bad the most recent Hulk run has been basically ignored now in favor of something... that isn't that good as a followup.)

theJaw wrote:


I really don't like Ruffalo as Banner or Hulk. I have especially disliked his Smart Hulk persona. I really liked Norton. The movie wasn't the best, but I prefer everything about his portrayal of the character. Also, I happen to think Norton is the best actor of his generation, so I am probably a bit biased.

Norton is definitely up there as far as his generation (or any generation) goes, and did great with what he had to work with in The Incredible Hulk, but I hate the design of Hulk in that movie. I hate how muscly he is (or at least how his muscles look) and I also hate that his stature is so perfect when the comics I'm used to portrayed him as far more ape-like at that relatively early period of living with Hulk.

There were a few cool scenes in that movie though, just nothing nearly as memorable as The Avengers Hulk scenes imo. That first Avengers movie nailed Banner/Hulk and is probably my number 1 favorite portrayal of the character. But can't blame anyone for enjoying the Norton take of course.