General

He's just one piece of the puzzle there. You need to spend money to make it, and he's an incredible wrestler. He's worth it for the risk alone and deserves the bag.

At the risk of getting negged up for my take here (obv not trying to argue) -- but the ratings discourse is pointless. Dynamite's constantly the top show on Wednesdays for TBS and oftentimes the top show on cable for the night. Constantly touted as a top brand by WBD. They don't need to be doing WWE numbers, ratings-wise, to be successful in that metric. They could stay the course and WBD should be perfectly happy with the performance unless something huge changes the TV landscape... which doesn't seem to be happening considering the Nielsen ratings are getting less and less important every year. Even WWE's highest rated show only barely sneaks into the annual Top 100... so AEW's ratings really are a nonissue. Wrestling is niche, nothing is changing that.

Already got into the ticket sale/building size thing and it was as unpopular to defend here as I'm sure it is to defend AEW's ratings, so I won't get into all that again. I'll just say that of course they could be doing better in that regard.

As a fan, all I care about is good wrestling on my wrestling shows. I don't care about ratings or ticket sales -- though I do admit I've been duped into doing this research in the past to see if there really is anything behind all the doomposting on the internet... but there really isn't. At the end of the day, Khan could've paid Okada 300 million and it'd mean absolutely nothing to me, it's his money to spend... if it translates to good wrestling and another attractive spot for wrestlers to make money, I'm down for it.

He’s a big star. In Japan. I don’t think he will move the needle 4.5 million dollars worth here in the US. At least not yet. I do think wrestlers should be paid way more, but the return on investment for Okada isn’t there yet. I hope it gets there for AEW’s sake, because more money is good for everyone and theoretically should yield a better product for everyone.

BucketofJustice wrote:

After one week and a single squash match, of course it's not there yet. He'll at least help retain the audience they already have, which is already enough to satisfy the network they need to satisfy.

That term "needle mover" needs to be retired haha. Didn't Roman Reigns say it in a promo and then suddenly everyone started saying it? To be fair, sometimes it's not about moving a needle and more about keeping a product fresh. If the needle doesn't necessarily need to move, then the latter is more important.


This is exactly how I feel too. Hopefully it pans out to be good for everyone -- including folks outside AEW and for other promotions in general.

Anyone throwing down for 2K24? Hearing it’s peak WWE game this year. I’m prob gonna snag a used copy eventually.

For the needle mover phrase, that was just Roman being a company man, like Jericho is now, just say what you think is expected of you to please whoever is signing your checks.
I think Roman said it in an interview when asked what he thought about CM Punk going to AEW. In CM Punk's defense, he did move the needle quite a bit for AEW, and since he left they've still not quite recovered. But you know how it goes, asking someone in one company what they think of something going on in the other company, of course they usually won't give proper credit when due. Roman wouldn't say that now that CM Punk is back in WWE, unless it was planned to lead up to a storyline down the road. Just like I'm sure Batista would only have good things to say about AJ Styles now that he's in WWE, compared to 20 years ago when he was in TNA and Batista had nothing good to say about him in interviews.


As for fans criticizing a company's ratings or ticket sales, I don't see why it's a problem, it's harmless unless it gets to the point where the conversation turns toxic. I'm not a sports fan but what I've learned from people who are is that the fans (conveniently of the losing team) always know what the right play to call is better than that good-fer-nothin' coach does. Or compared to other scripted shows, I'm not a Game of Thrones fan but everyone who was seemed to know how that series could've ended better than the writers it did.

I don't dare say I know how to drive up ticket sales more than Tony knows, but I'd start with maybe smaller venues depending on what market you're in. All those B2G1 ticket deals last year were not a good look for a company that is the #2 promotion in the country. ECW could've easily drawn more than 2,500 fans in Hammerstein when they'd be in the Tri-State area, but even Paul Heyman knew they'd have no chance of selling out MSG, so he didn't even try (he probably couldn't afford it regardless).

Yah I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. I’m for sure not saying that discussing ratings is inherently a bad thing. I just don’t take much stock in it. Like you said, it mainly depends on whether the conversation gets toxic or not - unfortunately AEW’s ratings attract that too much. There are just lots of folks who act like AEW’s ratings are poor but they only use WWE as a measuring stick, which just doesn’t track.

It’s a bunch of doomposting when AEW’s ratings are objectively what the network is looking for and is happy with. We know that because WBD said that, it isn’t a guess… but folks still argue tooth-and-nail that their ratings are awful and that they’re doomed because of it when that isn’t true (not saying you suggested that btw). At least with sports or something like GOT - those are subjective opinions being discussed ya know? AEW’s ratings being poor isn’t really up for subjective opinion — though the quality of the show totally is of course.

Rusev and Lana have split
https://www.tmz.com/2024/03/11/aew-stars-cj-perry-...

But in bigger news that actually matters.
https://twitter.com/FOS/status/1767308868407775590

Stephanie McMahon was No. 3, and was aware of other inappropriate sexual relations Vince had with employees.

I don't think Sami vs GUNTHER is the way to go. I think it really should've been Chad Gable who won last night. Sami got his WrestleMania Moment™ last year winning the tag titles with his BFF Kevin Owens, I don't think him beating GUNTHER will top that. This could've been Chad's time to shine.

They could have him win mitb.

The only way I wanted Gunther to drop the IC belt at Mania was if it were to Gable. That way, a great wrestler who truly deserves the push would win his first major singles title in a huge moment and would be “made” by pinning Gunther.

Sami’s been IC champion already, he doesn’t need to win it again and he got a great feel-good Mania moment last year. For those reasons, I don’t see him beating Gunther at Mania. Gunther will continue on for a while.

That said, the match is going to be awesome - so I can’t be upset in that regard. But yah, I would have preferred they cap off the Gable/Gunther story.

I think the question is typically 'Then what?' when it comes to the WWE belts.

Ya, I think the usual goal of any match is to get some sort of reaction out of the fans- especially title matches. Zayn/Guenther gives me the feeling that it's a good time to go out for a smoke and make snacks and take the dog for a walk. It's a bit tougher to get invested in anything involving Guenther with how small the world is today. Knowing they're heading to Germany soon for a big show and expecting he's going to be a main event there, it's difficult to see him dropping the title to any'one' at Mania. If Zayn beats him, then he looks weak going after Rollins or McIntyre in Berlin....especially since both of them have recently beaten Sami. If he beats Zayn....then, really, who cares? There's nobody on the Raw roster that 'should' beat him clean for it, except maybe Jey Uso.

It's kinda like the question of 'Who should beat Ripley?'. It won't be Becky. I really don't see anyone on the Raw roster that'll be doing that. Maybe Cargill if they ever put her on a show.

Who should beat Iyo? Honestly, who cares? Has she ever defended that thing? Does she do anything besides giggle and cringe by ringside? If they ever do a Forbidden Door with AEW, they could do Iyo VS Hart ..battle for 2 belts that everyone forgot exist.

I'd rather see Logan hold onto his title for awhile. Orton feels stale already....kinda like Edge did 20 minutes after he returned.

I struggle to care about the WWE tag titles. Seeing placeholders ala not actual tag team (Judgment Day) walking around with 4 belts is stupid. Granted, the tag team scene in WWE is weak on a good day.

Reigns title.....idk. I could see Cody winning it....but I love watching him lose so much so there's that.

I'm hoping for some sort of match for R-Truth that gets him fighting in a landfill and he finds the 24/7 championship.

I finally caught up on the John Tenta/Earthquake episode of Dark Side of the Ring. This felt way off from a typical episode. First, around the halfway point of the episode, it's like they shift focus to Typhoon/Shockmaster. And overall, John was a genuinely good, honest person, so there was no scandal to talk about. This just felt more like a documentary than what you'd expect from a typical DSotR episode, because there was nothing "dark" about it at all. Still, I don't regret watching it though. It's nice to know not everyone was a scumbag from that era when cameras weren't rolling.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the episode reminded me of his brief WCW run with the Avalanche gimmick. I had totally forgotten about that, and years ago in one of the TEW games I had signed two jabronis whose names I've forgotten now, but I repackaged them under the Natural Disasters tag team gimmick and renamed them as Avalanche and Tsunami.

Thunderbolt Patterson getting inducted into WWE HOF this year. That’s pretty gosh darn cool.

Mercedes’ AEW debut last night was about as well done as it could’ve been, and hopefully is the beginning of a good run for her. I think that Gory-bomb-like move she likes to do is awkward and kind of dumb but otherwise solid thumbs up.

I'm seeing a lot of people question why they chose to open the show with her debut instead of save it for the end. I personally didn't mind it though. I mean, we remember CM Punk's big return promo, and how it got cut short because it was saved to close the show and the match ahead of it went a little longer than it was supposed to. I'd rather take no chances of that happening again.

PizzaTheHutt wrote:


Maybe not the right call after all. People tuned in for her, but numbers steadily declined as viewers didn't stay for the entirety of the show (I admit I was guilty of that too). It did generate some buzz though. Tony Khan's Tweet that Adam Copeland was "All Elite" has 2.9 million views currently. The same Tweet for ol' Sasha has 2.5 million views in under 24 hours.

Bound to happen. Either pop that big illustrious 1mil at the top of the show to help the overall average for the following 2 hours or risk people getting tired/impatient and tuning out before she shows up. Still a positive for AEW either way.

Not sure how it’s an issue yet. Mercedes spiked a good starting number and then it dropped over 25% by the end of the hour when the Elite were on, and the picked up again for 9PM and then dropped to 627k. They lost 37% overall as the show happened, which isn’t good. The good is that they started higher. It’ll take some time to see whether these 3 big signings can help turn the ratings around. Tony should be concerned but he should also not hotshot stuff because history has shown it doesn’t work long term. I do wish he’d get his TV right secured though.

Sometimes it seems they'd get more people tuning in if they had a little bar on the side of the screen showing how many people were watching at home. That would get all the WWE guys watching and put them ahead in ratings without having to sign anyone.

Wrestling’s super niche, even WWE - Smackdown just barely sneaks onto the top 100 annual shows for Nielsen. So many other shows do wildly better than pro wrestling in general, ratings-wise. As long as AEW stays the course, WBD will be satisfied — which is really all that matters. Khan has made it clear he expects a renewal, and WBD constantly touts how satisfied they are with their performance, so the ratings situation really is a nonissue. They’re contracted until December 31, so unless something catastrophic happens from now until Autumn (when renegotiations are likely to begin in earnest), AEW should be around for quite some time.

Saw an interesting stat yesterday. Between October 2019 (AEW’s debut on cable) to March 2023, average ratings suggest both WWE and AEW programming have lost 600,000 viewers give or take. Obviously ”worse” for AEW because their audience was smaller to begin with, but neither company’s TV audience is actively growing - instead dropping at a similar rate. These ratings drops aren’t indicative of either product either, just of the fact that households are cutting cable. This is reflected in the Nielsen ratings dwindling as a whole year after year.

It just is what it is. To dwell on TV ratings like they’re a true litmus test of either company’s success doesn’t really hold a ton of water. Again, wrestling is niche and that’s not changing any time soon. Overanalyzing AEW’s TV ratings is like overanalyzing an ant in the ratings landscape, and overanalyzing WWE’s TV ratings is like overanalyzing a slightly larger ant.

Hahahaha Sheldon’s their most over act.

Seriously… AEW needs to adjust their booking. They’re booking to the people that are already there and never going away. Whether I like the booking or not or someone else likes the booking or not, their attendance and ratings have shrunk. Some of it probably is the ‘new car smell’ wearing off, but let’s also call it like it is: WWE changed bookers (out of necessity) and they’re hot right now. Their stories are better than they were before and make more sense and a lot of the wrestlers have clearly defined roles. AEW is not hot. WWE didn’t make the same number of big signings that AEW did, they focused on better storytelling and got themselves out of their malaise. AEW needs to do the same. Otherwise with ratings and attendance falling off, I do have concern that eventually Tony or Tony’s father is going to say enough is enough and pull the plug to stop losing money. We don’t know what that line is, for better or worse.

Take a gander at my last post. WWE’s ratings have lost the same amount of viewers on average as AEW in the past 4 years. Neither show is growing, but both depleting at a similar rate - that’s just a sign of people cutting cable and watching elsewhere. Booking genuinely has very little to do with it.

AEW is valued at over $2 billion, two billionaires backing it, and several sponsorship deals. WBD is happy with their performance. AEW is in no danger of having the plug pulled.

To be completely honest, and I don’t mean to come off salty because I’m genuinely not — but I AM sincerely still baffled as to why folks even care this much about ratings all of a sudden. Literally nobody was talking about WWE’s week-to-week ratings until AEW showed up. Now everybody talks about TV ratings like it’s still 1998, and like the landscape hasn’t changed dramatically in the 2 1/2 decades since the Monday Night Wars — where ratings only mattered because the two shows were going head-to-head on the same night/time slot, and when TV was the literal only way to watch these shows.

Y2k wrote:


Obviously I get it's a joke post, but I think majority of "WWE guys" don't care about the ratings. But when Chris Jericho goes and says something so confidently, such as back in 2021 that "within 4-6 months" they'd be ahead of Raw in ratings, that's kinda giving the IWC nerds the okay to start caring about that sort of thing. For that to happen they'd just need to find a way to keep that Big Bang Theory audience from tuning out. That would fix everything.

Talking about a show's Nielsen ratings is not much different than the IWC nerds that circlejerk over Meltzer's star ratings. Change my mind.

@PizzaTheHutt I think for someone to get too caught up about somebody else’s star ratings (aka opinions) is super lame too… but at the very least that’s within the context of the actual content of the wrestling show, which is what people watching wrestling are actually passionate about. It isn’t people pretending (emphasis on pretending) that they actually, genuinely CARE about the TV ratings for the wrestling show they’re watching.

I cannot imagine someone sitting down to watch a show thinking “man I wonder what the ratings for this episode will be! Bet I can guess which demo tuned in for this segment!” It doesn’t happen. People only care the next day so they can grandstand about one promotion or the other - again, as if they’re talking about a Monday night in the late 90s. Ratings discourse in 2024 is literally just fodder for the arbitrary e-war between internet wrestling fans and doesn’t matter whatsoever - and I’d argue matters far less than what somebody’s opinion on the actual content is. No harm if it’s a genuine conversation between people who legitimately do have a passion for TV ratings but I think we can all agree that’s very rarely the case in this scenario.

As for Jericho’s comments… it was a brash, overconfident thing to say for sure. But that’s what one does when they want to make a product feel special. We can’t pretend Jericho is the only dude in the history of pro wrestling promotion to say silly hyperbolic stuff to sell a product haha

BucketofJustice wrote:


I feel like this is true too.
When there was that Wednesday Night War and each show was attracting 800K - 1M viewers each week, then when NXT moved to Tuesdays many people (including me) expected those NXT viewers that now have nothing to watch on Wednesdays would just change the channel and watch AEW since they were already in the habit of watching 'rassling on Wednesdays anyway. But it didn't seem to play out that way. It didn't bring many new eyeballs to their show, the people who want to watch it were already doing so.

It's not too different from the end of the Monday Night War. When WCW was bought out, Raw's ratings went way up from the new audience that was conditioned to watching wrestling on Mondays for the past 6 years, but that only lasted for a month before Raw's ratings went back to what they were already doing pre-WCW buyout. This was before the "invasion" storyline had even began, so without even knowing how bad that would turn out, I feel like by that point the majority of Nitro viewers had already made up their mind if they liked WWF or not.

It’s also fairly important to keep in mind that, because pro wrestling IS so niche, there is a definite overlap between both audiences. Twitter will have you believe they’re two entirely separate groups but they’re very obviously not. A lot of WWE’s audience is made up of people who watch AEW and vice versa.

It’s just that a portion of WWE’s audience doesn’t seek out AEW. That’s either because of the unfathomably dorky tribalism, or just the fact that WWE has been a household name for decades and people have their routine. But as I’ve pointed out twice now, it’s not like WWE’s audience is growing in any substantial way. They are losing Nielsen viewers on average the same as AEW. 600k drop for both shows is telling. Being so niche, it’s not like the booking or storytelling is going to suddenly draw new eyes to either show. At the end of the day, it’s pro wrestling, and pro wrestling has a ceiling when it comes to these things.

theJaw wrote:


Yeah I get it. I personally pay no attention to his ratings, but there's a sizeable chunk of the IWC that act like his word is gospel for some reason. It's why memes like this get made:
image



I feel like what the average 20 year old wrestling fan wants to see in a match is not necessarily the same as what 64 year old Dave Meltzer wants to see. Just like when I'm in that age group and I go to the theater to see Freddy Got Fingered (one of my all-time favorite comedy movies), I wasn't giving a crap about Siskel & Eibert's opinions of it.

Yah memes like that also get made because people take everything Cornette takes as gospel haha. Lots of the IWC are easily manipulated depending on how they already want to feel about somebody.

Imo Cagematch is a much better way to get the general consensus of wrestling matches/shows anyhow. I’ve disagreed with the Cagematch ratings in the past but aggregates > one guy’s opinion any day of the week. That said, Meltzer does seem to enjoy what the younger crowd enjoys. Fast paced, hard hitting, etc. But we all have our preferences after all. For me - if it’s a good match, it’s a good match. I love different styles, so I dig seeing them all mashed up.

Whoa what the fudge? That rules so hard.

Fightful just reported that several WWE wrestlers are apparently scheduled for Bloodsport along with Baszler. That’s gonna be interesting as hell.

Hey if WWE doesn’t have plans for her or anyone else then why not? It’s not like she’s being used in a meaningful role at the moment. That is one thing I do like about AEW is letting them work indies if they want. It sucks if/when they get hurt on the smaller show, but at least they can make some more money if they want.

Wow, Brian Gewirtz could've had an alt career as a songwriter if the wrestling thing didn't work out for him.

Dude that promo was fantastic.

Somebody needs to inform Rocky that the only Final Boss is Meiko Satomura.

Can she be the final boss if she isn’t around?

They need to figure out what they're doing with her. I thought they were saving her a nice comfy spot for the relaunch of NXT Europe, but 2023 came and went without a peep from them about it.

I liked when Rock got serious with the belt and all. But gosh darn does that man sing flat notes. Those musicians were cool though.

I wish they would figure out what to do with her. She’s too good to sit on the sidelines doing nothing for a year or more.