Hopefully they don't get bogged down too much in Tolkein's impressive but boring minutia. They literally have a guy who analyzes how different types of boots kick up dust for the show.
Oh, never mind then. Still annoying that there's no WoT trailer. That show will go on forever though without a lot of cut content based on how huge and bad some of the books are.
I recall seeing some stuff on Reddit about writers for LOTR going to add sex scenes and other stuff to appeal to the Game of Thrones popularity but that just seems like a poor choice. If you want unnecessary sex and nudity for the sake of it, The Witcher does that very well. Keep those trashy aspects out of LOTR please.
I personally don’t care if there’s sexual content or not. Too much can definitely over-do it and wear out its welcome but sometimes depictions of sex help add some humanity to the world building. I feel like one of the more common criticisms of Tolkien that I’ve seen in the sea of (warranted) praise is that his stuff is epic in scope but less epic in terms of emotional range within certain characters, or that they all seem to exist in a seemingly celibate world where intimate relationships are only alluded to as opposed to featured. I think even a minimal amount of snogging could alleviate that criticism without compromising the show’s integrity and could help the world seem more believable.
But that’s just me. To be fair I wouldn’t really care either way. They can stay as buckled up and socially awkward as the original movies for all I care, as long as there are battles and magic and monsters and heroes etc etc
You don't need sex scenes. I would hope they don't go that route. I don't think Tolkien's estate would allow it - they seem to have a pretty tight grip on what gets made or licensed. And I'm sure Weta is going to be involved and they'd also probably go to bat with any Amazon exec that wanted to add sex stuff.
>> Wheel of Time comes out this year and still there are no trailers for it, I think
>> it's gonna be at SDCC though.
>
> I almost want to read the series before watching the show, but I doubt I'm going
> to. 14 large books, not counting companion books and a prequel.
The only ones that are necessary to read are the main series and that prequel. I read 2 of them years ago in High School but don't really want to read them currently.
After all of the Hobbit films, I can't be anymore disinterested in how Bezos is going to handle Middle-Earth. Just the mere talk of whether or not there will be sex scenes, is telling to me that there will be things that are going to be wrong in this series.
Glad Christopher isn't alive to really see this garbage being made.
Bezos has nothing to do with the show's production past the budget. It's possible the show is being worked on by folks just as passionate about the source material as you are.
And to be frank, I've personally always felt LOTR could us a little injection of relatable content. For a high fantasy, the universe itself is so sterile as far as human emotions go, maybe a little thrust and pump will be good for the ol' hobbits.
I heard folks complain that the elf lady was TOO badass compared to how she's portrayed in the OG LOTR stuff, which sounds like a silly complaint if you ask me.
There are 2 episodes out, BTW. I'm just wonder if it's actually good cause yeah, review bombs are out but there are also no actual critic reviews out either. You can see an 84% score, but if you click on it, there's only one review.
> Lol at whoever negged all of the even slightly positive comments about the show.
> I’m sorry the TV show hurt you.
This crap is getting so old. It was bad enough how people have become so much more critical over the last couple decades, everybody thinks they're a professional film critic or something. Now on top of that, we have huge groups of people who go on the warpath if something has even a hint of something they don't like. Get outside and enjoy life, people. If you're not interested in something, for whatever reason, just don't watch it. If you watch it but don't like it, fine. Say so, if you'd like, and then move on with your life.
Watched the first two. I’m intrigued and having begrudgingly read The Silmarillion- I’m excited as to see where this is going and who these characters will become.
> This crap is getting so old. It was bad enough how people have become so much more
> critical over the last couple decades, everybody thinks they're a professional film
> critic or something. Now on top of that, we have huge groups of people who go on
> the warpath if something has even a hint of something they don't like. Get outside
> and enjoy life, people. If you're not interested in something, for whatever reason,
> just don't watch it. If you like it but don't watch it, fine. Say so and move on
> with your life.
This. It's one thing to critique what you watch, even if one pretends to be a professional film critic, that's valid enough. But some folks make it a legit mission to crap on something they dislike or to harass folks who happen to like something they don't. Toxic fandom is obnoxious, as is toxic anti-fandom, but it's unfortunately just a common factor if you're into this stuff these days.
Heck, at least on GTZ the person can get it out of their system by negging posts without needing to spew some lame excuse for their arbitrary hate.
On topic, I think I'm gonna let a few episodes build up so I have a good chunk to watch at a time. Never been HUGE into LOTR though I do enjoy the original trilogy, but I like it enough. Looking forward to bingeing a few episodes whenever I do.
I was super into lord of the rings back in the day when the family would see the movies together. Then I read the hobbit and loved it. Saw the hobbit movie not doing any research on it and was super bummed that it wasn’t one movie and then never saw the other movies of that trilogy.
I’m sure I’ll watch this eventually but I’ll wait for all the episodes to be out so we can watch our own pace if we enjoy it
Finished ep 2. Feel like I kinda know enough to get by, but like other modern shows, I find myself relying on some YT recap/review shows to make me feel less dumb.
Relatively happy with it so far, minus skipping over so much background and not properly explaining things. The whole migration of the elves and the big ass battle... Just glossed over.
It's a lot for two episodes when they have 5 seasons to go. Feels like they dumped a ton of details on us, that come with expectations of the books.
Have some theories about Theo/Halbrand, really curios to see how that plays out. No f'ing idea who or what the giant is or role he plays.
Sauron was Morgoth's lieutenant. He was part of the bad guys that got defeated in the great war that they glossed over (at the end of the First Age). Morgoth is gone, but the dark forces he commanded are not entirely gone. Orcs are still around too, despite a massive attempt to genocide them by the elves. Incidentally, Morgoth created the orcs by torturing some Elves with dark sorcery. So, the Elves are particular pissed about all that.
This Rings of Power series is about the rise of Sauron as a Dark Lord and how the rings of power are created. I think it's roughly analogous to the Star Wars prequel series (which can be seen as the rise of the Emperor). We know that Sauron is defeated at the end of the Second Age, but that his ring survives and thus he comes back and the story of Lord of Rings plays out until his final defeat.
I think the broken dark sword from Rings of Power is not Tolkien canon, just something they dreamed up as a plot device of sorts. I'm OK with that, evil swords are cool in my book (I'd love to see a TV series about Moorcock's Elric and Stormbringer). I think they are trying to show how The East becomes Mordor and how the men there are corrupted.
I've watched the 2nd episode now too. I liked it. There was more action and adventure to it. It feels different from LoTR story/movies. It's another time for Middle Earth. The focus is on different, less familiar locations and people.
I haven't read The Silmarillion (I hear it's long and dry, no thanks), but I have read LoTR wikis a fair bit.
I don't understand the extreme bad reactions, seems really strange/suspicious. I'm not expecting it to be better than the LoTR movies, but I think it's an interesting story to tell. I think they should have some license to add to the story to flush it out and give it some life.
I liked The Hobbit movies. I guess a lot of people reacted badly to them and maybe that's related to the bad reactions to this Rings of Power series. In my opinion, the LotR movies are great while The Hobbit movies are less so, but still good. I expect about the same of this series. Again, Star Wars may be similar (Ep 4,5,6 are the best; but I still enjoyed all the rest).
I have an idea who the weird giant is from reading the wiki, but it's a huge spoiler and I may be wrong, so I won't say. I don't think he's a wizard like Gandalf since they don't come until the Third Age.
> Sauron was Morgoth's lieutenant. He was part of the bad guys that got defeated in
> the great war that they glossed over (at the end of the First Age). Morgoth is gone,
> but the dark forces he commanded are not entirely gone. Orcs are still around too,
> despite a massive attempt to genocide them by the elves. Incidentally, Morgoth created
> the orcs by torturing some Elves with dark sorcery. So, the Elves are particular
> pissed about all that.
>
> This Rings of Power series is about the rise of Sauron as a Dark Lord and how the
> rings of power are created. I think it's roughly analogous to the Star Wars prequel
> series (which can be seen as the rise of the Emperor). We know that Sauron is defeated
> at the end of the Second Age, but that his ring survives and thus he comes back and
> the story of Lord of Rings plays out until his final defeat.
>
> I think the broken dark sword from Rings of Power is not Tolkien canon, just something
> they dreamed up as a plot device of sorts. I'm OK with that, evil swords are cool
> in my book (I'd love to see a TV series about Moorcock's Elric and Stormbringer).
> I think they are trying to show how The East becomes Mordor and how the men there
> are corrupted.
>
>
> I've watched the 2nd episode now too. I liked it. There was more action and adventure
> to it. It feels different from LoTR story/movies. It's another time for Middle
> Earth. The focus is on different, less familiar locations and people.
>
> I haven't read The Silmarillion (I hear it's long and dry, no thanks), but I have
> read LoTR wikis a fair bit.
>
> I don't understand the extreme bad reactions, seems really strange/suspicious. I'm
> not expecting it to be better than the LoTR movies, but I think it's an interesting
> story to tell. I think they should have some license to add to the story to flush
> it out and give it some life.
>
> I liked The Hobbit movies. I guess a lot of people reacted badly to them and maybe
> that's related to the bad reactions to this Rings of Power series. In my opinion,
> the LotR movies are great while The Hobbit movies are less so, but still good. I
> expect about the same of this series. Again, Star Wars may be similar (Ep 4,5,6
> are the best; but I still enjoyed all the rest).
>
> I have an idea who the weird giant is from reading the wiki, but it's a huge spoiler
> and I may be wrong, so I won't say. I don't think he's a wizard like Gandalf since
> they don't come until the Third Age.
>
I’d expect he’s a maiar with the way he looks and how he got there. Top choices would be Sauron or an Istari / Gandalf etc. Since the istari come to defend against Sauron he needs to arrive first- is he here yet?
"Sauron's scheme to entrap the Elves was one of subtle persuasion. He took on the angelic appearance of an emissary of the Valar and gave himself new names. Among these were Artano the high smith and Aulendil the servant of Aulë, but the best known of these guises was Annatar, the Lord of Gifts. In this form he went to the Elves and offered them his aid in their works, but even as Annatar most of the leaders of the Elves were suspicious of him. He was rebuffed by Gil-galad, Elrond and Galadriel, but the Jewel-smiths of Eregion were less suspicious, and their leader Celebrimbor accepted his offers of knowledge and help."
This would seem to fit what Rings of Power is doing plot-wise. Admittedly, the weird giant is not exactly angelic, apart from falling from the sky.
ahh!! That is a very good guess. Annatar / Sauron convinces celebrimbor to meld the three rings. This probably needs to happen before Sauron is revealed / istari arrive. I think you’re correct.
> I don't understand the extreme bad reactions, seems really strange/suspicious. I'm
> not expecting it to be better than the LoTR movies, but I think it's an interesting
> story to tell. I think they should have some license to add to the story to flush
> it out and give it some life.
With something like this, there were bound to be die-hard LotR fans who didn't like it for numerous possible reasons, that's to be expected. But then on top of that you have the Woke army who freak out if there's ANYTHING they consider to be "woke" in a movie or tv show, so that blows things much more out of proportion. The best I can tell on this one, the only thing they're claiming is "woke" is characters who should be white are played by actors of other colors. Definitely an important thing to be making a stand on. /s
> I liked The Hobbit movies. I guess a lot of people reacted badly to them and maybe
> that's related to the bad reactions to this Rings of Power series. In my opinion,
> the LotR movies are great while The Hobbit movies are less so, but still good. I
> expect about the same of this series. Again, Star Wars may be similar (Ep 4,5,6
> are the best; but I still enjoyed all the rest).on
That's how I am. I definitely liked the LotR movies much more, but I still enjoy the Hobbit movies quite a bit.
It baffles me that people hate on something and refuse to watch something. Even though they love the franchise. Just because someone of color is in it. WTF is wrong with people. I've seen so much bullcrap the last few days about this show and the new game of thrones show because there are black people in it.
> |>> I can't stand critics. I'm super pumped for this.
>>
>> Just like I can't stand yuppy fans who'll eat anything that's shoveled out short
>> of a pile of crap on a steaming platter.
>>
>> Or maybe they'll eat that too if enough spice and sauce is sprinkled on it to
> deal
>> with the smell. Maybe.
>
> Imagine caring what other people enjoy
If people are going to go out of their way around the block with the whole "man, too many critics" or "man, soooooo many haters" you know what? You're stirring those "haters" and critics to speak up. I'm one of the people who're not going to go out of my way to prevent people from enjoying what they want to enjoy. Enjoy the damn show. I have my reasons for not wanting to watch the show. You have your reasons to watch the show. I will say and judge based on what I've seen from the peter jackson films and what I could expect from the trailers I've seen. That says more than most who're criticizing and HADN'T experience the films or even watched the trailer.
So what's the big problem, huh? The problem is fans CANNOT handle opposing views that critique what they like. They want everything one sided. Well, big deal, it's not going to happen. I guess it's too much to simply ask for people to shut the hell up and just enjoy what they like and ignore said criticism. But nope, gotta rile the crap up by having to fling a shot at the hornet's nest and expect nothing to come from it. How entitled...
Don't be a hypocrite either because you're the one who cared too much about what I said to respond so snarky. Everyone else is talking like nothing, but there you are...
Somewhat on the current subject I suppose, but for me...
If I enjoy something, I'm inclined to talk about it and suggest it to people because I enjoyed it, and am completely willing to let them form their own opinion should they choose to watch it. If I dislike something, I'm inclined to simply not watch it, or go out of my way to crap talk it. Heck, even for the Star Wars projects I disliked, I won't crap on them solely as an attempt to prove that I've had a superior experience as a fan over other folks who enjoyed them.
The most negative voices ring loudest, because they're usually the most angry, and most of the time over crap that's not worth being so angry about. Fantasy stories that are meant to be an escape from this sort of menial real-world BS being a prime example. If you don't like TROP, don't watch it. Post a review somewhere, get it out of your system, wash your hands of it, and move on like a functioning human being. Don't consistently post about how hard you hate it, how hard it betrays the creator, how it should have never been made, etc. THAT is inviting discourse, especially when posted among folks who are genuinely enjoying it.
It's the equivalent of going to a band's show, getting right in the middle of the folks singing along to the hook of a particularly popular song, and saying "I liked them before they got cool." Like great, these folks like it now. It's not a life-or-death situation. Learn to enjoy the direction, or don't. Either is fine, just move on.
Well, some folks certainly make it about being "woke" in a big way, unfortunately. Not that those folks should be taken seriously anyhow.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Jackson's original LOTR trilogy change a lot from the books too? I don't know why folks are acting like this is the first time book details have changed for a film adaptation. It happens for almost any adaptation ever, it seems LOTR isn't (and never has been) immune.
5 seasons they had to commit to... Of course there's gonna be a ton of new content. People are annoying and dog just to dog. The internet has become a massive cry baby dog-a-thon.
I just avoid reviews and critics with basically anything anymore.
Committing to 5 seasons should be a good thing. Hopefully, it means they've planned it out well. Also, that it won't get canceled before it's resolved.
I wonder if they are planning other Tolkien spin-off shows. HBO has a ton of Game of Thrones spin-off shows in the works. Disney is spewing out Star Wars stuff (and Marevel, sort of). Paramount+ is cranking out Star Trek shows...
With the push for new content in these streaming wars days ... I'd be amazed if Amazon didn't already have some ideas being developed. Given how each platform has a bit of their own claim to fame of really big shows, Amazon is one of the weaker ones at the moment, at least in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre. LotR makes a ton of sense to further develop to compete with HBO/Disney.
1 hour, 8 episodes, 5 seasons = 40 hours! This is insane when you look at how much they covered in the original trilogy based on the original books. I don't know how much material exists that they drew inspiration for this era of LotR, but I'm assuming vastly less. It gives them a ton of room for creativity to color within the lines, but possibly veer and have more creative freedom to explore other eras, characters, and story lines.
The simple fact that they have a $60 MILLION per episode budget, is just mind boggling. They are clearly investing into this, hopefully for more than the planned 5 seasons.
lol this is good. Sorry to keep bringing up House of the Dragon in a LOTR thread, but that show got this same backlash for black Velaryons. Lots of parallels between the two shows. Seems a certain sect of high fantasy fans are decently obsessive when it comes to skin color, as if the races in question weren't just fictional to begin with.
The orc leader is called “Adar” and it’s also the name of the episode. Tried to dig up something on him but he’s created for this show.
-Arondir notes that Adar is an elf word – it probably means “father” in one of the two elf dialects Tolkien created, which we know from Tom Bombadil’s elf name, Iarwain Ben-adar, meaning “Eldest and Fatherless.”-
The elves even say that Adar is another name for Sauron.
“Eldest, that’s what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.”
Rewatched it. Halbrand is very interesting character. Says he’s a king etc. seems like a secret douche. Wondering if he’s the witch king. Love the mysterious way this is coming out. Fan theorizing feels like matrix or last season of GoT before they destroyed our hearts. Hope it delivers.
Yeah, Halbrand is hard to figure out. Seems to have well-trained thieving skills. Not outright evil, but willing to bend the rules to get what he wants.
Nori too, I'm not sure what role she will play, gets a lot of screen time, so I assume it's important.
I just watched the first three eps tonight with the wife.
I purposely avoided reading anything about the series, other than with the understanding that it took place thousands (?) of years before LOTR or Hobbit.
So that said, I'm a little sad to see Galadriel pop up and be one of the main characters, as well as Elrond. And to see Sauron in LOTR character design already pop up, though briefly.
There was a lot of dialogue re-usage from LOTR, in the first ep alone two quotes of Boromir were used practically word-for-word and Elrond also said something that he said in LOTR. It's weak writing to have the same dialogue. We get it, it's tied to LOTR, you don't have to say the same damn dialogue, even if is an "homage".
I do thing Galadriel is badass, and the actress is absolutely adorable.
I'm also fearing that the fallen star is Gandalf, but I'm really hoping it isn't. But watching how the actor moves (especially when he's talking to the fireflies) it's the same movement mannerisims of Gandalf in LOTR. So, again, I just don't get why we can't have a story that is free from throwing LOTR characters in there. If you have a completely blank slate, go off in all kinds of new directions. You don't need to tie it so hard into what has come before. Actually, you do, because with this much money on the line you want everyone who knows LOTR both book and movie to be able to watch this and keep going "Look! Gandalf!", "Look! Look! I get these references!"
I'm invested in the series and will keep watching it, but I was hoping they wouldn't have to tie it so much to LOTR. I mean, I know they have to tie it so closely because they want the broadest viewership possible, but, yea.
Thank GOD it doesn't have Game of Thrones-style sex in it. That would have ruined it.
It's like the Star Wars prequels. Obi-wan, Anakin, & Palpatine were a supporting/side-character in Ep IV,V&VI, but the main character in I,II,&III. Elrond, Galadriel, and Sauron were supporting/side characters in LoTR, but main characters in Rings of Power.
> Will I still be able to follow along despite knowing NONE of the names yall keep
> bringing up, save for those in the LOTR movies?
I'm not really that expert in it. Rings of Power has stuff in it that I find intriguing and I wonder at the connection it has to LotR. So, I go look it up in a wiki or read Reddit. Then, I post about it because it's exciting to guess about what's going on.
> Episode 4 yikes. So slow. Nothing happened of any importance. I’ll try to watch it
> again but it’s really bummed me out.
Really? I liked it. I guess not much happened but the relationship building was good IMO. I'm not a lore nerd, but I know trilogy inside and out (even have a Nazgul tattoo), and I think the show slaps.
>> Episode 4 yikes. So slow. Nothing happened of any importance. I’ll try to watch
> it
>> again but it’s really bummed me out.
>
> Really? I liked it. I guess not much happened but the relationship building was good
> IMO. I'm not a lore nerd, but I know trilogy inside and out (even have a Nazgul tattoo),
> and I think the show slaps.
Nice. I’m a little too quick to judge on first watch so I always try to erase my palette and go in again. I’m sure I’ll come around. Disappointed that this daddy orc has become your token angry guy.
that she didn't just sail off into the sunlight at the end, and leave all that fighting behind after years of it.
I didn't understand the "eternal spring sail off into the sunlight" thing. I don't recall that from any of the original 3 movies. (Maybe it's mentioned in the books, but I didn't read them.) Is there some sort of alternate elf dimension? Or is it simply a far away nice place that elves get as a reward?
The Elves left Valinor (undying lands) where they are immortal- to come to middle earth. In middle earth they “fade” and will become wraiths or shades if they stay too long- like thousands of years. There’s lots of other confusing lore with the elves like they can voluntarily give away the immortality to become mortal- as Arwen does to stay with Aragorn. Part of this rings of power story will likely be the mistake made by numenor to try to gain the power of valinor- and the actions taken to forever make it inaccessible to mortals.
When the elves go back west it is analogous to them going to heaven and leaving mortal realm.
I don't get it, this series simultaneously does nothing and also completely outmodes the original trilogy. Gladriel could have soloed Fellowship of the Rings in two hours, hold her breath, spin-slice her way through Mt Doom ascent and just slam dunk the crap into the lava. What is she ON dude
I just watched Ep1 finally. I haven't read a single thing you guys have talked about in this thread.
My take - I cannot believe any show managed to fill an ENTIRE HOUR with nothing but confusing, serious conversations between only 2 characters at a time. Literally almost no other scenes besides two people talking about...STUFF. Stuff we have zero knowledge of. I feel like this is SORTA how Game of Thrones (original series) started. I had to rewatch Ep1 a few times in that to get the hang of characters and story line. But this...it just did nothing. I believe if I knew what they were talking about it would be different, but how do they expect anyone who doesn't know all of these people to get INTO this series?
I'm definitely going to give Ep2 a shot. I love the setting and the scenery. It appears to be a high budget, high quality show...but wow I hope the next episode isn't 1 hour of one-on-one conversation.
How the 3 eleven rings were made was different from how I understood it was to happen. I'm wondering how they will handle the 9 for men and the 7 for dwarves at this point. I thought Sauron basically tricks the Elven smiths into making them first, then the elves made the 3 without him after.
It all seemed more condensed than I was expecting. Though, I could see how drawing it out would be problematic as we'd know too much for there to be much suspense to it. Also, Galadriel's complicity in bringing Sauron to elven forge (oops). She should get 1 of those 3 rings too, though it doesn't seem entirely justified at this point.
I liked how the Meteor man stuff played out. Though, again, not quite how it's suppose to as far as I know. I think he's most likely Gandalf, especially given the Hobbit connection and likely the fan service of adding a beloved character (even if it's an Age too soon). A Hobbit going on a journey seemed to be them using a familiar pattern (no complaints from me, should be a good adventure).
we mostly figured out who the stranger was- a wizard - Istari- he pretty much says so- not sure who. All signs point to Gandalf. And I think we jokingly thought the douchey rogue dude would end up being Sauron. That was a fun ride and I’m definitely happy with how they played us. That scene where he calms the seas is so badass. But now I’m wondering what happens if she would have joined with Sauron- she obviously caught his heart- he may have been different.
Someone on Reddit was saying the reason for Amazon not following canon may be because they don't have the rights to all of Tolkien's works, just LotR.
I like how the show has raised some question of who/what is evil exactly. Adar and Sauron's conversations with Galadriel seemed to paint a more nuanced view of things. Perhaps just giving us a taste of evil's point of view or simply how evil tries to corrupt the mind of good people. But, it's hard to see Galadriel as purely good when her main desire is to genocide the orcs and murder Sauron. Tolkien seemed to take a more black and white approach.
One burning question fans have had is what material does Amazon have the rights to for The Rings of Power show? Well we know have an answer courtesy of the showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay in a recent interview with Vanity Fair. The trade was asking questions fans wanted to know the answers to and this was definitely one of the questions that was endlessly debating among the Tolkien fan base.
So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.”
That’s the best content. There are stories in the appendices that aren’t mentioned in the silmarillion. But most of the relevant silmarillion is covered “broadly” by the appendices. Some of the best Legolas / gimli stories etc in those appendices.
