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No surprise that @Scott has the highest positive score. He seems like a nice dude. Also, I just realized that you can go to "my-users" and see who you personally + or - the most, which was fascinating.

Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:

Ohhh that is cool, didn't see that! My lowest towards other users is -2, highest is 54.

I think these stats are somewhat deceptive. They are biased toward people who use scoring a lot.
I wouldn't say, "a handful of people that own all of the negs". I also I wouldn't assume they are angry. There could be many reasons to neg. Someone may neg someone else for being angry, for example.

Good probability I'm not understanding the data correctly, but my interpretation ...

There are 1,820 negs on active forum messages:
- The #1 owns 708 = 39%
- The top 4 own 1,234 = 68%
- From #5 to #25 - the range is 0.7% to 2.6% (average of 27 [2%] or a STDEV of 12.8)

So this tells me that the minority owns the majority of the negs. So more often than not, if negs exist, it's probably one of the top 4 repeat offenders, no?

Apologies in advance If I'm not understanding the data properly, good chance I'm off here.

That's all incorrect. Sorry, I guess the presentation is not that clear. The way that page does stats is a little odd because it's trying to do it all in the same interface. Mostly, it's meant to show you the top scoring posts, the other stats were packed in there as an after thought (maybe I should remove them if it's confusing).

At the top, it says, "Lowest score totals for ForumMessages (all that are active), showing their sum and then total number of scores for the person scoring."

For the first person it says: "-708 of 1,256". The -708 is the sum of all their scores. In other words, for every neg it counts -1 and every plus it's 1, then add them all up. The second number is the count of times they made a score. If I look up the numbers by hand, their total negs are: 982, total pluses: 274. 274-982 = -708 (sum). 982+274 = 1256 (total number of scores).

Where do you get 1,820 negs on active forum messages? The list isn't showing total negs made at all. It's just a per-person sum/count thing. Looking up the total site scores, as I write this, the total number of negs in the system is: 10,283. Total plusses: 28,100. So, #1's percent of negs is 982/10,283 or 9.55%. #2 is 271/10,283 or 2.64% etc.

-113 of 403 for me.

So does that means I plus about three times more often than I neg?

No. If the first number is negative, it means you neg more than you plus.
You're a negger. It's OK.

At the moment, you have 147 plusses and 260 negs.
147-260 = -113
147 + 260 = 407 total scores

Got it

The way I had it seemed odd because I do like a good neg

Do the stats have an easy way to tell how many of those plusses are on my own posts? I want to know how well I'm living up to my sig

Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:

Likewise buddy!

bill wrote:

This is true, I'm a compulsive scorer. If I like a post, I plus it, if I REALLY don't like a post, I neg it. I actually neg a fair amount, but I plus way more so it balances out.

Back when I was still on Facebook, I was the same way, liking tons of posts and stuff (why wouldn't I "like" something that I like??") I don't really regret that, but I'm so glad I'm not on Facebook anymore.

It's not very well known at this point since it's been so long, and so many past users have left the site, but "shadow negging" used to be a really big problem here, so BIll put some measures in place to help prevent it. If somebody goes through a thread and negs the majority of the posts, or negs a particular user too many times in a short period of time, then all of their negs get removed, I think at the end of the day. So, the neg stats aren't very accurate. The people who are on the "top neggers" list are those who neg sporadically (but a lot). The list would look very different if negs weren't being removed.

Bill, do you think the shadow negging protection is still needed? It doesn't seem like it's much of a problem anymore. I remember I used to see it in action very regularly...I'd have negs, especially in a heated thread, then the next day they'd be gone. I don't really see that happen anymore. Maybe my shadow negger(s) left the site!

MrBean wrote:

The last I remember, he was catching a lot of heat on here for initiating sales, taking the money, disappearing for a while, then eventually cancelling the trades and refunding. The popular opinion was that he was basically taking advantage of people to get free Paypal loans.

It seems like he got past all of that and was still around for a bit after, so I'm not sure why he eventually left for good. The cancelled trades weren't a good look, but other than that, I always thought he was one of better users here.

whitefire requested account delete about a year ago, so his account has been purged since then.

What happened with him (from my perspective) is explained in the BTR I filed on him (then deleted) ~18 months ago. https://gametz.com/?A=BadTraders&bytzuser=130572&S... Essentially, I put his account into a state where it shows "Recently Resolved BTRs" and prevented him from having a good trader star because of all the grief he'd repeatedly caused people by not sending stuff for months.

Initially, he seemed OK with this action I took to remove his good trader star. Later he was unhappy with it. He mentioned "many thousands of trades and giveaways, and no one ever lost a single cent due to me" then "I don't see a point in being a part of it anymore ".

Scott wrote:

I do know. It doesn't even report to me when it does it, to be honest. Maybe, I'll turn the reporting back on just to see. Very likely, the site's decline is a factor and related to the level of fighting between users being much lower now.

Looking at the code, I see there was a special exception made for the Politics forum. That reminds me that it was likely worse when there was more political fighting/feuds. We do have a new Presidential race just getting started... will it get bad again?

I think the shadow negging protection doesn't do much harm if it doesn't trigger so much anymore.

benstylus wrote:

There's no easy way to do this, but it's possible.

benstylus wrote:

I believe this: https://gametz.com/?A=Scores&period=all&table=Foru...

all - highest - my-users

bill wrote:

1820 = sum up the negative numbers from this report: https://gametz.com/?A=Scores&period=all&table=Foru...

Lowest score totals for ForumMessages (all that are active), showing their sum and then total number of scores for the person scoring.
You can see who is making the most positive or negative scores.

So these numbers show the individual users overall score - which includes negative and positive. So the #1 is at -708 of 1,256 - meaning they dished out 708 negs, and 548 pluses yeah?

Well, you shouldn't do that. First, it's like a top list so it's not giving you all the numbers. Second, the negative numbers are not what you think they are.


No. I tried to explain it above, but you're still not getting it. So, I'm not sure what to say. Should I try to explain again? I admit it's an odd/confusing stat.


I'm looking at ways to present the data better, but it's really hard. Since that page is mostly for showing the posts that got the most scores, the "scorer" stat is forced into a format that doesn't allow me to show counts of negs/plusses.

Maybe I should just remove it since it likely just causes confusion. I'm still looking at it to see if there's some way to just show neg/plus counts as that's clearly what people want.

I think its 982 negs to 274 pluses.

Total 1256, but 274 plus and 982 neg = -708

I was trying some other formats to see if I can come up with something more understandable. If I just sort the top 10 by neg counts, Scott comes up #2 on the list (which is consistent with Scott saying: "I actually neg a fair amount").

I think the using the "sum" number (which is clearly confusing to people) was a way to factor in how much that person is also plussing (thus Scott isn't shown on the page MrBean first link despite negging the 2nd most of anyone on the site).

But, "sum" is not intuitive for people to understand and I don't think there's a way to derive counts of negs vs plusses from it (what everyone seems to want).

MrBean wrote:

28 self pluses. I feel like I have not let me down.

You're your own best friend.

lordkaosu wrote:

Yup. Usually I will do it in sale topics but not right away so as to avoid suspicion. If someone else has already scored me then I will jump in and add to it (or cancel out a neg) though

OK, I figured out a way to count and scores for this page:
https://gametz.com/?A=Scores&period=all&sort=lowes...

So, it no longer shows the "sum" of scores and the total count. Instead it shows a count of each person scores and neg scores.

It actually still uses the sum to sort as this seems to paint a more complete picture of overall scoring habits.


Also, bonus for @benstylus

List of people self-scoring their own posts:

https://gametz.com/?A=Scores&period=all&sort=highe...

Note that this could be either 's or 's (but, checking, it's 98% 's).

@Porksta is the highest self-scorer .

Also, just got the Scores page working for the mobile site... e.g. https://m.gametz.com/?A=Scores&period=all&sort=low...

Sun wrote:

There is no bigger compliment on GTZ than Porksta plussing your post.

Porksta wrote:

This guys plusses

bill wrote:

Haha I'm not even in the top 10

Thanks for the enhancements @bill!

@bill Big improvement on the Scorers stat, and I love the addition of the Self-Scoring stat!

Negs are the best! Neg everyone!

I negged every post in this topic. You're welcome!

bill wrote:

Yeah that makes sense. I don't even remember the last time I've used the scoring system since I've had it disabled for so long.

Gypsy wrote:

Negged. Turn it back on this instant.

bill wrote:

Sorry for necro quote reply but "I did giveaways, why can't I scam the community????"

Kommie wrote:

As Scott described here (post #13), there is a an automated anti-shadow-negging function of GameTZ. I honestly had forgotten about it, but since Scott mentioned it, I changed it to report to me when things happen.

Sure enough, your negs caused it to go into action. The report looked like this:

It decided that you had both focused-negged 3 people (bill, benstylus, and MrBean) then also that you negged most/all posts in this "NegTZ" topic. Ultimately, it deleted all of your negs of bill, benstylus, and MrBean and all your negs in this topic. ...perhaps, a little heavy-handed, but righteous enough imho.

The system works?!

50 negs for me? I didn't realize I even posted that much

bill wrote:

This is bullcrap! Not shadow negging! Put a system in for shadow plussing!

I'll think about it. But first, we need to talk about why you hate benstylus so much.

Negged

Kommie wrote:

Haha, reading the posts with this at the end was a legit lol this morning.

Same! I love that Bill has such an awesome script for neg catching -- and I indeed chuckled audibly at the final "Negged" there.

MrBean wrote:

Is this a subtle Silicon Valley reference?

Prime wrote:

Haha absolutely

Is there a way to hard-code a profile so one wouldn’t be able to see the scoring system at all ever? I have no desire to ever see it again. I don’t even want the option in Subscriber options as a choice.

The option on the Subscriber options page could be hard-coded out for someone, sure.
There are probably numerous other cases where it may appear or be mentioned and perhaps could be hard-coded out.

Most importantly, other members of the site may bring the scoring system up (this topic for example) and there's little that can be done about to prevent that.

BucketofJustice wrote:

Just to throw it out there, plus-only scoring like I have is pretty nice. You only see positive scores and you can only up-vote. It really helped me not worry/think as much about the scoring system. To me, I like it better than getting rid of it entirely since it just shows positive things.

The negativity of it gets to me sometimes, and I know I have a tendency to feed into negativity. I don’t want to see scoring, and I don’t want the option to turn it on and off. If it would disappear altogether that’d be great, but I know I’m only 1 person so if the scoring could disappear altogether for me that’d be awesome.

For the record, I have scoring turned off too.

This is the way.

bill wrote:

Negged

Here benstylus demonstrates the impossibility of making the score system disappear altogether.

BucketofJustice wrote:

Same. That's why I went plus-only.

For me, it actually makes things better than just not being there. Because it is nice to see some upvoted posts now and then and to be able to upvote them. No negativity.

I'm not saying you have to, of course, turning it off is certainly fine too. I'm just saying that, for me, plus-only is actually better for my attitude and positivity than no-scoring-at-all.

@bill would you mind making my account plus-only? I'd like to try that out.

@Scott done

Yes! Welcome to the Light Side! We don't have cookies, but we have .

Thanks, plusses for all!

So, in plus-only mode, is the score you see just the total of plusses? Or do negs still factor in to the overall score, but you just can't see the breakdown of how many plusses and how many negs, and can't apply negs yourself?

Scott wrote:

I just negged you to test. Do you see 0 or -1?

0, cool

It's like when the death star blew up alderaan. All the negs are just... gone

Yeah, in plus-only mode, only plusses matter from what I understand. Negs just don't exist for us.

Can I get a neg only mode?

Better thought - can we change the neg sign to Kommies avatar?

Kommie wrote:

Or make it secretly plus only mode just kommie gets the image swapped

We did a neg-only month once.

That sounds like a bad idea. I don’t remember it at all.

Happy 26th anniversary!

I'm just too easily amused I think. I remember that time I was negging every post on the site (even my own) just for craps and giggles, and then Bill reset my whole score history. For a while after that I had stopped use the scoring system altogether.

I think what started it was Kess was getting in trouble for negging so many posts and I thought it was funny that people were getting upset over it (upset enough to complain to Bill about it), so I decided to take what he was doing and turn it up a notch. Except I think Kess was trying to be sly about it, but if I saw anyone point it out in a thread that everyone had been negged, I would openly admit that it was me. I think people were more bothered by Kess' negs than mine, very likely because he was clearly doing it out of spite.

image

Wow, has scoring been around that long?

Porksta wrote:

I think since somewhere around 2007 or 2008

lol

I love the "I regret it slightly" line!

It’s a great line. ‘I regret it slightly, but what the fudge?’ has me chuckling like a dumbass.

I'm liking plus-only mode, I think I'll stick with this

bill wrote:

What we all really want is Decembacon again

The automated shadow-neg deleter thingy has been going nuts the last few days.

Mostly from this topic: https://gametz.com/General/another-shooting-rocked...

I think we can all agree that there is a lot to not like in that topic

Plus only is an interesting concept. A serial negger could become a plusser and hide in plain sight. Each time they plus something they’re actually negging it internally.