VideoGame_Discussion

Topic Best games of all time... already out or still to come?

benstylus

2-Sep-2023(#1)

Happened across this video on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/dls1vkI8xY8?si=CcWuDaltwJyC_xYM

About halfway through the video, he makes the comment: "It would essentially be making the bet that the best games that will ever come out have already come out."

Looking at that, what are your thoughts?

When you ask people about the best game of all time, so few of them would mention a recent release. I think that's partly out of a social fear of being thought of as presumptuous that a new game will stand the test of time like something like Super Mario 3 or Ocarina of Time have for a lot of people.

But also... I kinda agree? What are the hallmarks of modern gaming?

Microtransactions up the wazoo mean that to experience the "full" game, the barrier of entry often becomes too high, particularly if you are late to the party and haven't been buying incrementally. (Not even going to get into aggressive free to play models that punish players who don't pony up the cash)

Live service means games are never really complete anymore, and some aspects of a game that you really enjoyed might be cycled out (or worse, made irrelevant) in a future season's update.

Online multiplayer games are only as good as the pool of people who are still playing them, and even that's assuming the servers are still up.

Extremely high development cost means a single game can make or break a studio. Most publishers want to play it safe, so the only innovators are the indies on shoestring budgets.

For people like me, even the content of a lot of modern games has gotten to the point where it makes me uncomfortable. Overuse of foul language (the first M rated Final Fantasy game), the realism of the blood and gore (a far cry from the comedic dozens of rib cages and skulls from an exploded foe in Mortal Kombat 2), and tacky sex scenes that you'd feel real awkward if your partner (or your kids) walked in and saw you playing).

Maybe there is an element of nostalgia talking as well, but the creativity that developers have when they actually have constraints makes for far more interesting games.

That being said, I think we have seen some modern games that are objectively better than their classic ancestors.

I love Super Mario 3, but I think either of the Super Mario Galaxy games by far exceed it.

Ocarina of Time is a classic, but I feel like any of the modern 3D Zeldas from Twilight Princess onward are easily better games.

Some games, but not all. For an example:

At Akaicon in July, we were running the video game room. One gentleman came and asked if we had any Tekken games. We had a disc for 6, and 7 installed on one of the systems, but he said he was looking specifically for the older games, because the new ones had too much complexity added to them. I went over our ps1 and ps2 games and we had Tekken Tag Tournament, so he and his son played that together for an hour or so. And it was regularly played after that the rest of the day (unlike tekken 6 or 7) so we never swapped it out for something else.

Although we had a Street Fighter 6 tournament, the SNES Mini was often busy with people playing Street Fighter 2.

Personally, I think the potential is there for the best games of all time to still be out there somewhere, just waiting to be made. But due to how game development costs a significant amount of money (and that amount is constantly increasing), there are fewer companies willing to take significant risks. It's a completely understandable stance to take when a single big failure can essentially put a non-behemoth publisher out of business.

A developer getting bought by a big publisher has its own set of problems. One flop (or even just a modest success) and the publisher might choose to shut the studio down and either shuffle thr IPs they developed to other studios to be driven into the ground, or locked away somewhere never to be seen again.

So are the best games ever still to come?

If so, it's probably going to be from the indie developers.

But then again, back in 2011 when Ubisoft was in peak AAA or shovelware only mode, among the 70ish games they released that year was Rayman Origins which is one of the best 2D platformers of all time (although bested by Rayman Legends two years later). A lot has changed since then though.

Shane12m

* 2-Sep-2023(#2)

So the debate is if gaming has peaked? I say absolutely not and games will only get better.

I don’t think the best games in the future are gonna come just from indie devs. Games are expensive to make. The two best games this year are from big studios (Zelda and Baldurs gate 3). That won’t change IMO

Orlandu

2-Sep-2023(#3)

The best game of all time is like the best music or the best SNL cast. It's whatever you enjoyed most during your formative years.

benstylus

2-Sep-2023(#4)

Shane12m wrote:

> So the debate is if gaming has peaked? I say absolutely not and games will only get

> better.

> I don’t think the best games in the future are gonna come just from indie devs.

> Games are expensive to make. The two best games this year are from big studios (Zelda

> and Baldurs gate 3). That won’t change IMO

At least some people feel like BOTW is a better overall game than TOTK. Here's an example:

https://rpgranked.com/breath-of-the-wild-is-better...

I can't speak as to Baldur's Gate 3 since I haven't played it, but my understanding is it definitely follows the recent M-rated game tropes of sex scenes and f bombs.

What makes BG3 "better" than any RPG that came before it?

benstylus

2-Sep-2023(#5)

Orlandu wrote:

> The best game of all time is like the best music or the best SNL cast. It's whatever

> you enjoyed most during your formative years.

I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. I grew up playing Atari and NES, but I don't think those are necessarily the best years to go back to for gaming (certainly some of the most important in establishing home video games, but not necessarily the best).

I had a Genesis instead of a SNES for quite some time, but I still find a lot of Genesis games to be way rougher around the edges than similar games on the SNES. And certainly some games I loved back then are... not high on my to-play list now when I want a retro fix (Sonic Spinball).

When I was younger I loved playing RPGs and other long games, but neither they nor their modern equivalents typically keep my attention longer than a few sessions nowadays.

So it isn't just a matter of "this is what I grew up with, therefore it is the best."

I will, however, argue that mainstream 70s and 80s musicians were objectively better at vocals than the heavily autotuned stuff you hear today (though there are still some very talented vocalists today).

Yoshi

2-Sep-2023(#6)

I'd like to think some of the best games are still ahead of us, but I do think we're past the tipping point where more of them are already out. Because of many factors, there will never be a publisher with in-house developers that can match what Konami or Sega did in the 1980s and 90s in terms of quality, quantity, and genre diversity.

Gypsy

2-Sep-2023(#7)

benstylus wrote:

> Orlandu wrote:

>> The best game of all time is like the best music or the best SNL cast. It's whatever

>> you enjoyed most during your formative years.

> I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. I grew up playing Atari and NES,

> but I don't think those are necessarily the best years to go back to for gaming (certainly

> some of the most important in establishing home video games, but not necessarily

> the best).

> I had a Genesis instead of a SNES for quite some time, but I still find a lot of

> Genesis games to be way rougher around the edges than similar games on the SNES.

> And certainly some games I loved back then are... not high on my to-play list now

> when I want a retro fix (Sonic Spinball).

> When I was younger I loved playing RPGs and other long games, but neither they nor

> their modern equivalents typically keep my attention longer than a few sessions nowadays.

> So it isn't just a matter of "this is what I grew up with, therefore it is the best."

> I will, however, argue that mainstream 70s and 80s musicians were objectively better

> at vocals than the heavily autotuned stuff you hear today (though there are still

> some very talented vocalists today).

Yeah if that were the case for me I'd love the N64 and I really don't. I really love the SNES, PC Engine, PS1 and PS4. The first three of which I went to really discover after being well into gaming for many years. I didn't really play much SNES or PC Engine until maybe 2013 at the earliest. I have a ton of experience with the Dreamcast and still have games I play on it regularly but I don't play that quite like I used to.

I think the problem for me with a lot of rpgs is that they are too damn long. I can enjoy a longer game but the sweet spot for that genre for me is usually 25-35 hours unless I'm really loving it (like say Octopath Traveler).

Overall the answer for me is definitely already out (though certainly there are modern games I enjoy) and

Yoshi wrote:

> I'd like to think some of the best games are still ahead of us, but I do think we're

> past the tipping point where more of them are already out. Because of many factors,

> there will never be a publisher with in-house developers that can match what Konami

> or Sega did in the 1980s and 90s in terms of quality, quantity, and genre diversity.

Totally agree with this. Old Konami was truly special.

I'd also throw my hat in the ring for Compile. They are no Konami but I loved their output. Zanac x Zanac is one of the best shmups.

If anyone is curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compile_(company)#As_Compile

Bleed_DukeBlue

2-Sep-2023(#8)

Regarding Baldur's Gate 3, I'm not sure why it's a big deal for a game rated M to have M-rated content, but, for what it's worth, I haven't encountered any sex scenes in the 20+ hours I've played, and there's some cussing, but it's not distractingly noticeable or anything. It seems realistic for the world the characters are in. (It's a little weird to me that you're concerned about these things and not the gratuitous violence throughout the game (not that it bothers me either)).

As to why BG3 is better than previous RPGs, it takes the formula of Divinity: Original Sin 2 (another fantastic Larian game) with tremendously varied player skill options, backgrounds, and choices that actually matter and adds the lore of Baldur's Gate, a great story, better graphics, and even more freedom. I'm still in the first act, and I'm not even close to finding everything there is to find. I keep stumbling upon random, interesting stuff. My character can talk to animals, and I came upon a squirrel that was standing in my path. I chatted it up and realized that it was unhappy that we were walking through its territory, and I worked out a compromise with it to pass by without it biting me. I also talked to spiders, unlocked a basement door, and convinced them to attack some goblins for me. I've been faced with decisions about whether or not to sell my soul to a demon and whether or not to let a parasite take over my mind, giving me greater powers. I've made alliances with two factions, reaped the benefits of both, and then double-crossed one or both. You can use the environment in a ton of different ways, pushing enemies off of cliffs, conjuring water beneath them and then electrocuting them, covering them in grease and then throwing a fireball, etc. There are spells to charm people or change your appearance. The choices you have in conversation are heavily dependent on your stats and skills, and different characters solicit different responses from every NPC. All of the characters are fully voiced, and the voice acting is fantastic. BG3 isn't just the best game of the year. If it continues to hold up like this the rest of the way, it may just be the best game ever.

benstylus wrote:

> Shane12m wrote:

>> So the debate is if gaming has peaked? I say absolutely not and games will only

> get

>> better.

>> I don’t think the best games in the future are gonna come just from indie devs.

>> Games are expensive to make. The two best games this year are from big studios

> (Zelda

>> and Baldurs gate 3). That won’t change IMO

> At least some people feel like BOTW is a better overall game than TOTK. Here's an

> example:

> https://rpgranked.com/breath-of-the-wild-is-better...

> I can't speak as to Baldur's Gate 3 since I haven't played it, but my understanding

> is it definitely follows the recent M-rated game tropes of sex scenes and f bombs.

> What makes BG3 "better" than any RPG that came before it?

Technos

2-Sep-2023(#9)

When everything about the industry seems to have plateaued, from graphics to originality to sales, I don’t know you could realistically say that “the best is yet to come”. Seems more like it’s in the early (mid?) stages of decline.

There’s also the matter of how it was once primarily a Japanese industry, but today is a western one. Seems pretty obvious which one resonates with more people. A western dominated gaming industry doesn’t have the creativity in it to surpass what came before. It can only offer pale imitations.

MrBean

2-Sep-2023(#10)

Massive rose colored glasses for the games of old. Nostalgia runs hard but reality is, games do continue to get better and the best is yet to come... And it's called Silk Song.

Gypsy

2-Sep-2023(#11)

MrBean wrote:

> Massive rose colored glasses for the games of old. Nostalgia runs hard but reality

> is, games do continue to get better and the best is yet to come... And it's called

> Silk Song.

Reality? It's opinion since this is art and highly subjective. Different people will have different experiences.

I find a lot of new games are super boring. Mario Odyssey was the first mainline Mario game I couldn't be bothered to finish. Maybe 2 or 3 new games a year that I'm interested in with a typical year these days. Oft bloated, overloaded huds, boring writing that thinks it is better than it is. Satisfying gameplay is often lacking. No desire to even look at random Western Indiecrap from people that don't understand how to actually make a fun game (Euro devs especially guilty of this).

benstylus

* 3-Sep-2023(#12)

Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:

> Regarding Baldur's Gate 3, I'm not sure why it's a big deal for a game rated M to

> have M-rated content,

It isn't. But when the previous games in the series were rated teen, it's disheartening to see them decide they want to adultify it, as if adding m-rated elements improves it in any way.

For Mortal Kombat or GTA? Absolutely, that's almost the whole point of those games. But for a Dungeons & Dragons RPG, it's not necessary at all.

And for all the accessibility options that are becoming more and more prevalent, most m-rated games don't give the option to disable the m-rated parts. It's either all or nothing.

> (It's a little weird to me that you're concerned about these things and not the

> gratuitous violence throughout the game (not that it bothers me either)).

Haven't played it so not aware of the gratuitous violence. Though with it being an rpg, combat is kind of expected... though if it's gory dismemberment then that's quite different than something where enemies just disappear when defeated.

... no what brought BG3 to mind was in my news feed some story about "All the sex scenes in BG3 ranked!" or something like that and I just had to shake my head and die a little inside knowing that (a) someone thought that was an article worth writing and (b) Google thinks it counts as newsworthy for me.

benstylus

3-Sep-2023(#13)

MrBean wrote:

> Massive rose colored glasses for the games of old. Nostalgia runs hard but reality

> is, games do continue to get better and the best is yet to come...

Another thought I had is that yes there are obviously iterative improvements to games so if you have never played a video game before and are comparing a Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario Wonder without any context, it might be easy to declare Super Mario Wonder the better game, and probably rightly so.

But if you have played the entire spectrum of 2D platformers... Pac-Land, Mario, Sonic, Rayman, Giana Sisters, Donkey Kong, Ori, Hollow Knight, Mega Man, Shovel Knight, N, VVVVVV, Tanglewood, Thomas Was Alone, Commander Keen, Duke Nukem, Jill of the Jungle, Jazz Jackrabbit, Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure and the hundreds if not thousands of others I can't think of off the top of my head I'm sure you will find things about Mario Wonder that are better than all of those, and certain areas where it doesn't compare favorably.

Your breadth of experience might make it difficult for the game to truly wow you, even if in the end you decide it is the best 2D platformer ever by a small margin.

The nostalgia of course is the wow factor when we first started playing games, and of course again with every major leap forward in technology or game design. But are we still getting the wow factor regularly, or only in brief shining moments?
Are we now playing games because it's what we have always done, and we simply don't know how to not play them anymore?

benstylus

3-Sep-2023(#14)

(I left off Kirby! Sailorneorune is never going to let that one go)

nonamesleft

3-Sep-2023(#15)

MrBean wrote:

> Massive rose colored glasses for the games of old. Nostalgia runs hard but reality

> is, games do continue to get better and the best is yet to come... And it's called

> Silk Song.

😆 One of the first things I saw when I googled silk song was "is Silk Song ever coming out?"

Slickriven

3-Sep-2023(#16)

One aspect that has forever changed things with games is the patchable status they now enjoy. Does that mean most games before patches were possible are better, clearly no. But I think we all understand how being able to patch a game changed how games get made and have their lifetime support and expectations handled.

Industry focus shifts have impacts as well. In the 80's to early 00's the focus was on non-patchable home consoles and dedicated handhelds, and PC too. But as patches and phone games became more popular, the audience changed and the offerings did too. Not to mention attention spans seem to have changed as well.

To the core question of the thread, I don't think there's 1 single answer. Depending on when someone started gaming, what level of nostalgia they ascribe, what types of games they like, how much gaming they do overall, and more factors will all contribute to what they think about when the best game was or will be.

I'm not sure I could even supply my 'best game' (that's already been released) selection right now and I've beat over 335 games in the last 4 years. There are lots of great ones in what I've recently played, also lots of meh in there. Plus all of the games I played prior or have yet to play.

I think the core of the question is really based around is the industry producing overall better games and moving in a good direction vs backsliding and producing more junk. Answering that is still a mixed bag because not every trend that comes along is a good, not horrible one. Microtransactions suck, ads in games suck, the mentioned Ubisoft model from the AC 'glory days' wasn't the greatest, etc. But those things are generally trends and continually evolve. Right now we get 2 main flavors, big budget games that can hit or miss vs much cheaper/smaller indies that tend to hit more. But with indies we pay less and have lower/altered expectations and they are more often labors of love and devotion from their creators. Those 2 paths are likely to continue IMO and because of them well get some great games from both groups and some duds. But the big players do get buckets of crap if their hyped games stink and they generally push to fix that and learn from it, b/c otherwise profits trump all and studios get shuttered when they don't perform.

Ultimately games are an art form and are subjective to the consumer of the medium. I'm certain we all couldn't agree on the best song, album, book, movie, painting or even genre or era for most of those. So trying to pick/agree on the best game is not really possible. Interesting topic though.

benstylus

3-Sep-2023(#17)

Slickriven wrote:

> Ultimately games are an art form and are subjective to the consumer of the medium.

Ultimately, games are also a business.

A game can be a labor of love, but if it doesn't generate a profit it is generally seen as a waste of resources in the eyes of a publisher.

Small indie devs can make a labor of love game because the stakes are often fairly low if it fails to take off.

But as companies grow and hire more people, the stakes get higher and game design trends naturally start to turn more and more towards how to make the most money rather than what necessarily makes the best games. In some cases those two goals overlap. In other situations they are directly at odds with each other, and so the company must choose whether to compromise the quality of their game, or risk not making enough money to stay in business.

> I'm certain we all couldn't agree on the best song,

The A Team theme song is the one I always come back to.

Bleed_DukeBlue

3-Sep-2023(#18)

Fair enough. I'm actually all for options. I have no problem with players being able to leave out the sex scenes or tone down the blood, etc. I actually did encounter where the sex scenes could come up for the first time when I was playing this last night. They're pretty obvious, as characters directly solicit you, and you can say no and still progress the game, so the sex scenes are completely avoidable (at least so far). The one scene I did see actually furthered a plotline and seems like it may be important to getting one character to join you (but it's completely possible to proceed without recruiting this character). I do agree that it's weird to have articles about ranking the scenes and so forth.

benstylus wrote:

> Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:

>> Regarding Baldur's Gate 3, I'm not sure why it's a big deal for a game rated M

> to

>> have M-rated content,

> It isn't. But when the previous games in the series were rated teen, it's disheartening

> to see them decide they want to adultify it, as if adding m-rated elements improves

> it in any way.

> For Mortal Kombat or GTA? Absolutely, that's almost the whole point of those games.

> But for a Dungeons & Dragons RPG, it's not necessary at all.

> And for all the accessibility options that are becoming more and more prevalent,

> most m-rated games don't give the option to disable the m-rated parts. It's either

> all or nothing.

>> (It's a little weird to me that you're concerned about these things and not the

>> gratuitous violence throughout the game (not that it bothers me either)).

> Haven't played it so not aware of the gratuitous violence. Though with it being

> an rpg, combat is kind of expected... though if it's gory dismemberment then that's

> quite different than something where enemies just disappear when defeated.

> ... no what brought BG3 to mind was in my news feed some story about "All the sex

> scenes in BG3 ranked!" or something like that and I just had to shake my head and

> die a little inside knowing that (a) someone thought that was an article worth writing

> and (b) Google thinks it counts as newsworthy for me.

Staraang

3-Sep-2023(#19)

I like to think the best games are yet to come. Though ultimately it will be in the eye of the beholder because any new games that come out have the deck stacked against them. They’re facing off against a legion of classic games whose perceived quality is magnified by nostalgia. So it’s never going to be a level playing field. A new game has to be leaps and bounds better to overcome the nostalgia factor that is making previous classics appear better perhaps than they ought to be.
For example, my favorite game is Chrono Trigger. But I’m not blind to the possibility that someone can make a superior RPG. Maybe it’s even already been made. But still the game was special when I played it and I’m nostalgic about it on top of that. New games won’t have that regardless of quality. The other thing is, although gaming is still a part of my life, it’s not nearly what it used to be for me. So that kind of cements Chrono’s place for me. And I’m certain there are other people in a similar frame of mind as I am.

nonamesleft

3-Sep-2023(#20)

Staraang wrote:

> I like to think the best games are yet to come. Though ultimately it will be in the

> eye of the beholder because any new games that come out have the deck stacked against

> them. They’re facing off against a legion of classic games whose perceived quality

> is magnified by nostalgia. So it’s never going to be a level playing field. A new

> game has to be leaps and bounds better to overcome the nostalgia factor that is making

> previous classics appear better perhaps than they ought to be.

> For example, my favorite game is Chrono Trigger. But I’m not blind to the possibility

> that someone can make a superior RPG. Maybe it’s even already been made. But still

> the game was special when I played it and I’m nostalgic about it on top of that.

> New games won’t have that regardless of quality. The other thing is, although gaming

> is still a part of my life, it’s not nearly what it used to be for me. So that kind

> of cements Chrono’s place for me. And I’m certain there are other people in a similar

> frame of mind as I am.

Chrono Trigger has a great soundtrack. Fun game too.

nonamesleft

3-Sep-2023(#21)

I think that nostalgia can play a huge part in which games people like vs games that are yet to come.

Even if I play a great current gen game, when I look back at certain games I've played from previous gens and really enjoyed, I have a particular fondness for those games. I think it's partially the nostalgia. Although it could also be that those games were fantastic :D

MrBean

3-Sep-2023(#22)

nonamesleft wrote:

> I think that nostalgia can play a huge part in which games people like vs games that

> are yet to come.

> Even if I play a great current gen game, when I look back at certain games I've played

> from previous gens and really enjoyed, I have a particular fondness for those games.

> I think it's partially the nostalgia. Although it could also be that those games

> were fantastic :D

Goldeneye

Sometimes games are best left in the past as well.

benstylus

* 4-Sep-2023(#23)

I think the problem most people have trying to go back to goldeneye is that their muscle memory has been replaced by modern console fps controls. And 20+ years of that makes it really hard to adapt back to the old way.

It's like playing a NES game where B is jump and A is your action button. It may be a great game but you'll never know because the controls are all wrong.

bonham2

4-Sep-2023(#24)

There's something to be said about the simplicity and comfortableness of the older games we grew up with. I can play games Mario 3, Ocarina of Time, or Link to the Past over and over again. There's something comfortable about those games. Heck, I play Zelda 2 at least once a year. As much as I absolutely loved Tears of the Kingdom, I don't think I'll ever play it again (unless there is DLC). Does that mean Zelda 2 is a better game than Tears of the Kingdom? Hell no.

2023 has been an incredible year for gaming. Games like Baldur's Gate, Diablo IV, and Tears of the Kingdom are considered milestones in game development, and we still have some heavy hitters due out this year. Anyone that thinks the best game of all time has already come out is extremely naïve and short sighted.

Best1989

4-Sep-2023(#25)

As some of you have mentioned, most of the usual "GoaT" games have been improved and surpassed by later iterations in the series or similar games. To think there is not an objectively better Zelda, Mario, GTA, etc. than the older titles is crazy, IMO.

I think there will be great games in the future and any of those could reach the "best of all time" status. I also think it will be really difficult to beat what I think is the greatest videogame ever created, which is Tetris. And that's because it's a game that is still being played by thousands across many generations for who knows how many decades, without a lot of significant changes on its main premise and mechanics. With games getting more and more complex, I think it will be difficult to create something so "simple" yet so eternal and accessible.

Staraang

4-Sep-2023(#26)

Not to derail the topic too much but how do some of you older GTZers find time to play some of these games? I'm way behind on gaming (currently playing through Fallen Order) and it takes me months to finish a game because I'll just play it in dribs and drabs. But then I see people post they're pouring hundreds of hours playing through BG3, Starfield, TotK, etc. Honestly where do you find the time?? I have to say I'm a bit envious because I feel like I'm missing out on these epic experiences.

Bleed_DukeBlue

* 4-Sep-2023(#27)

I only pull it off because I don’t sleep enough.

Staraang wrote:

> Not to derail the topic too much but how do some of you older GTZers find time to

> play some of these games? I'm way behind on gaming (currently playing through Fallen

> Order) and it takes me months to finish a game because I'll just play it in dribs

> and drabs. But then I see people post they're pouring hundreds of hours playing through

> BG3, Starfield, TotK, etc. Honestly where do you find the time?? I have to say I'm

> a bit envious because I feel like I'm missing out on these epic experiences.

nonamesleft

* 4-Sep-2023(#28)

Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:

> I only pull it off because I don’t sleep enough.

> Staraang wrote:

>> Not to derail the topic too much but how do some of you older GTZers find time

> to

>> play some of these games? I'm way behind on gaming (currently playing through

> Fallen

>> Order) and it takes me months to finish a game because I'll just play it in dribs

>> and drabs. But then I see people post they're pouring hundreds of hours playing

> through

>> BG3, Starfield, TotK, etc. Honestly where do you find the time?? I have to say

> I'm

>> a bit envious because I feel like I'm missing out on these epic experiences.

There are times where I feel like there aren't enough hours in the day to accomplish everything that I want to do. Sometimes it seems like the only way is to sleep less. I once mentioned this, but I was talking to a relative of mine about what superpower he would want. He said to not have to need sleep. That he would be able to accomplish so much more. At the time I thought it was a waste of a power. Why not take flying or super speed, or something cool. But now that I think about it, he was on to something.

Zelda Breath of the Wild was a game that I actually pulled an all nighter for. How else can you play such a massive game? There doesn't seem to be enough time. Was very tired the next day, but I accomplished so much in the game. I remember being super tired and roaming one of the 3 labyrinths with that music playing.

Imagine being extremely tired and listening to this:
https://youtu.be/LZbqRhsqPpc?feature=shared

benstylus

4-Sep-2023(#29)

Staraang wrote:

> Not to derail the topic too much but how do some of you older GTZers find time to

> play some of these games?

I mostly just buy games I want to play and then never play them.

Thankfully at least I help run a convention and can supply lots of games for people to play there... but I'm usually so busy running other things at the convention the whole weekend I don't have time to play anything then either.

Staraang

4-Sep-2023(#30)

@Bleed_DukeBlue @nonamesleft No way I can pull all nighters and function the next day anymore. Not even worth it to me even if I made major progress in a game. I’d much rather have my sleep.

@benstylus I’m always tempted to do that but then I just ask myself what’s the point? Having Game Pass is a game changer though. Tons of great games that I have access to anytime which helps alleviate most temptations to buy games that I know I won’t have time to play.

benstylus

4-Sep-2023(#31)

bonham2 wrote:

> There's something to be said about the simplicity and comfortableness of the older

> games we grew up with. I can play games Mario 3, Ocarina of Time, or Link to the

> Past over and over again. There's something comfortable about those games. Heck,

> I play Zelda 2 at least once a year. As much as I absolutely loved Tears of the Kingdom,

> I don't think I'll ever play it again (unless there is DLC). Does that mean Zelda

> 2 is a better game than Tears of the Kingdom? Hell no.

> 2023 has been an incredible year for gaming. Games like Baldur's Gate, Diablo IV,

> and Tears of the Kingdom are considered milestones in game development, and we still

> have some heavy hitters due out this year. Anyone that thinks the best game of all

> time has already come out is extremely naïve and short sighted.

Sure the graphics are better, the physics may be more realistic, but there isn't really much new going on, because when it happens no one cares - they just go back to the same series they were playing before.

I think if Breath of the Wild had been an Ubisoft game under a different name than Zelda, it probably would have been written off as yet another open world ubi game and the price dropped to ten dollars within a year. (Wait, that actually happened with Immortals didn't it?).

The most innovative racing games of the past hardware generation have been largely ignored in favor of Forza, Gran Turismo, and Need for Speed (and Mario Kart if you want to include Kart racing in the mix). Did anyone play Trailblazers? or Onrush? Or even (moving on to a big publishers) Rider's Republic? I think the only one that's had even a modicum of long term success is Wreckfest.

I think the potential for the best games hasn't yet been realized, but I just don't have faith in any of the big industry players to make them, outside of possibly Nintendo because they still do games outside the beaten path on occasion. Stuff like ARMS may not have been anyone's GOTY, but it was polished, and it was different than anything anyone else was doing. But Microsoft, Activision, Sony, Capcom, EA? Not a chance.

Maybe Konami if they ever start making games again.

benstylus

4-Sep-2023(#32)

Staraang wrote:

> @benstylus I’m always tempted to do that but then I just ask myself what’s the

> point? Having Game Pass is a game changer though. Tons of great games that I have

> access to anytime which helps alleviate most temptations to buy games that I know

> I won’t have time to play.

Yes, then I could just pay a monthly/annual fee to have access to all the games I won't play

Would probably be cheaper but wouldn't help with convention.

Most of the stuff I buy isn't on gamepass anyway.

Staraang

4-Sep-2023(#33)

benstylus wrote:

> Staraang wrote:

>> @benstylus I’m always tempted to do that but then I just ask myself what’s

> the

>> point? Having Game Pass is a game changer though. Tons of great games that I have

>> access to anytime which helps alleviate most temptations to buy games that I know

>> I won’t have time to play.

> Yes, then I could just pay a monthly/annual fee to have access to all the games I

> won't play

> Would probably be cheaper but wouldn't help with convention.

Lol, guess I wasn’t clear but that’s what I was implying. Definitely cheaper than buying games. 😀

> Most of the stuff I buy isn't on gamepass anyway.

Yeah there are some games I’d really like to try like Last of Us and Ghost of Tsushima but haven’t been able to justify the expense of a PS5 yet when there’s plenty of gaming available on Xbox. I’ll get to it eventually (probably in a generation or two, lol).

nonamesleft

4-Sep-2023(#34)

Staraang wrote:

> @Bleed_DukeBlue @nonamesleft No way I can pull all nighters and function the next

> day anymore. Not even worth it to me even if I made major progress in a game. I’d

> much rather have my sleep.

Sleep is definitely important, and being overtired is no fun. I'm not sure what prompted me to pull that all nighter. I might have had off the next day or couldn't sleep.

MrBean

4-Sep-2023(#35)

Sleep deprived is the only way to make time for games as a parent.

Staraang

* 4-Sep-2023(#36)

Between work and household/kid duties sleep is a necessity. Good news is that I can get some gaming time when I’m at home and kids are busy with other stuff. Im hoping the situation improves as the kids get a bit older a bit more independent.

And, my bad, benstylus, for veering off topic. Back to it: given that some of the best games are from the 90s what are your thoughts on the sort of spiritual successors and sequels we’ve seen like Streets of Rage 4, Shredder’s Revenge, Sea of Stars, etc.? Are these better than their predecessors? In the case of Shredder’s Revenge I would say it is but it’s not groundbreaking like the original TMNT. When that came out it definitely had a wow factor part of which could be attributed to the experience could only be had in the arcade and not at home.

Bleed_DukeBlue

4-Sep-2023(#37)

This guy gets it.

MrBean wrote:

> Sleep deprived is the only way to make time for games as a parent.

SupremeSarna

4-Sep-2023(#38)

I mean, Kirby Mass Attack already exists. So yeah, the best game is in the past.

egg

* 9-Sep-2023(#39)

I was too lazy to reply before sorry. But here's what I think. To me gaming is in a perpetual state of early installment weirdness. And we keep going through phases. The so called "golden era" of this genre or that comes and goes. And they may never come back because it feels more like we are heading toward "the end". Graphics get better and better, development costs increase and more and more consumer unfriendly practices are introduced such as microtransactions. So in that sense it does seem like a lot of the best games we did manage to get are the ones we're stuck with.

Anyway hopefully that made sense, or maybe it was just rambling but it's more or less how I feel.

citizen_zane

* 10-Sep-2023(#40)

While there will never be a single "best game ever," I think the list of best games ever exists in both realms: some have already been released while others have yet to be created. When it comes to different game series, it seems like some improve over previous iterations, while others never quite meet the high standards set by their predecessors. For example: is there ever going to be a Metroid game better than Super Metroid? While that is a very debatable subject, the fact is that many don't think it has happened yet (or ever will). One could argue that people with that view are just nostalgic and looking back at a game they loved with rose-colored glasses, but having played it relatively recently in my life, I (and many others) still think it still holds up and will probably never be surpassed.

benstylus

10-Sep-2023(#41)

citizen_zane wrote:

> For example: is there ever going to be a Metroid game better

> than Super Metroid?

You've never played Other M, I see.

KCPenguins

10-Sep-2023(#42)

benstylus wrote:

> citizen_zane wrote:

>> For example: is there ever going to be a Metroid game better

>> than Super Metroid?

> You've never played Other M, I see.

https://youtu.be/12-fbN0uWPo?si=F-Gx3RGCpUU2jGVL

KCPenguins

10-Sep-2023(#43)

Best game of all time as mentioned is opinion. My opinion has been for 20+ years it's Super Metroid. It briefly got dethroned in the late 90's by OoT for a handful of years, but speed runs brought it back. I've beaten it at least 40 times, and at least once a year. Funny enough my second and third games are Read Dead Redemption (2010) and BotW, so my top 3 spans two and a half decades, 3 different console gens, and can now all be played on Switch!

bonham2

10-Sep-2023(#44)

KCPenguins wrote:

> benstylus wrote:

>> citizen_zane wrote:

> |>> For example: is there ever going to be a Metroid game better

> |>> than Super Metroid?

>> You've never played Other M, I see.

> https://youtu.be/12-fbN0uWPo?si=F-Gx3RGCpUU2jGVL

Man, that game looks awesome. How could it possibly suck?

benstylus

10-Sep-2023(#45)

It's not a bad game (except for the game breaking bug issue), just not a top tier metroid game. I like it better than any of the prime games.

KCPenguins

10-Sep-2023(#46)

bonham2 wrote:

> KCPenguins wrote:

>> benstylus wrote:

> |>> citizen_zane wrote:

>> |>> For example: is there ever going to be a Metroid game better

>> |>> than Super Metroid?

> |>>

> |>> You've never played Other M, I see.

> |>>

>> https://youtu.be/12-fbN0uWPo?si=F-Gx3RGCpUU2jGVL

> Man, that game looks awesome. How could it possibly suck?

Because Adam said it must.

MrBean

10-Sep-2023(#47)

I'd love to replay Other M if they re-released on Switch. Another game that I played, enjoyed, but barely remember.

bonham2

10-Sep-2023(#48)

benstylus wrote:

> It's not a bad game (except for the game breaking bug issue), just not a top tier

> metroid game. I like it better than any of the prime games.

Blasphemous!

nonamesleft

11-Sep-2023(#49)

KCPenguins wrote:

> benstylus wrote:

>> citizen_zane wrote:

> |>> For example: is there ever going to be a Metroid game better

> |>> than Super Metroid?

>> You've never played Other M, I see.

> https://youtu.be/12-fbN0uWPo?si=F-Gx3RGCpUU2jGVL

I haven't played it, so I don't actually know how the game is, but I thought that was a solid game commercial.