Anxiouz
20-Jun-2023(#1)
I was wondering why Xbox chatter got quiet but I see the old thread got closed (due to lack of activity I presume?). Spinning this back up.
I'm excited about some of the Xbox stuff coming later this year (can't wait for Forza to finally get here!) but for my gaming tastes GP has been pretty terrible most of this year. My son is getting a lot of mileage out of it but he and his friends jump games a lot so it works out great and makes for a nice deal.
back4more
28-Dec(#3)BucketofJustice wrote:> Get the Xbox Elite controller if you can. I love mine, and I have two of them, one
> for each of my consoles. I like the weight of the controller, there’s a ton of
> customization options, and the obvious high quality of the controller. I did have
> the left bumper issue on one of my controllers, but that was 3 years after I bought
> it, and a local retro game store fixed me right up for $40. Still recommend the controller.
Thanks. I did end up ordering a red Elite 2 core controller, didn't want to miss out on the $96 sake price. I'll order a third party paddle pack from Amazon.
Simon_Belmont
29-Dec(#5)The Robocop game is super on sale, but only on Xbox and only as part of a the Microsoft "Countdown" promotion. Previous games from these Countdown sales made it to Gamepass days or weeks after the sale.
Is it safe to presume that Robocop will end up on Gamepass or should i jump on this deal?
Same thing with Modern Warfare III, it's the cheapest i've ever seen a new release COD game so close to its original release date. I know there's a higher probably of COD coming to Gamepass due to the Activision/Blizzard deal going into effect Jan 1st. Would Microsoft bring COD to Gamepass as a giant F YOU to Sony?
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
Simon_Belmont
29-Dec(#6)Also, if you took advantage of having PC Game Pass ( i did, there's a couple games on there that i don't have to buy on Steam now)...you can Gift 5 of your friends a 14 day trial with a $5 Microsoft gift card.
That's a nice gesture from Microsoft
back4more
30-Dec(#8)BucketofJustice wrote:> Hell yeah. Let me know how you like it once you get it.
I love it. Why oh why did I wait so long?? Prime delivery is sucking right now so I got a set of the Scuf paddles, since that's all I could get within the 2 days (actually got them next day), and I'm trying to get used to not hitting the paddles on accident. The Scuf's are smaller and shaped different from the OEM paddles so they can be flipped and used in slots other than designed for. I'll probably use just 2 paddles for a while to adjust. So glad I got the Elite Series 2 though.
benstylus
* 18-Jan(#11)Feeb wrote:>
> Xbox ceo says Microsoft can now be a multiplat publisher. Not quite saying the inevitable
> corollary.
People who buy Xbox hardware from this point forward are suckers?
Or there won't be Xbox hardware from this point forward?
Feeb
18-Jan(#12)benstylus wrote:> Feeb wrote:
>>
>> Xbox ceo says Microsoft can now be a multiplat publisher. Not quite saying the
> inevitable
>> corollary.
>
> People who buy Xbox hardware from this point forward are suckers?
>
> Or there won't be Xbox hardware from this point forward?
>
>
Yes.
Shane12m
18-Jan(#15)Hmm was hoping/expecting more of an uncharted style gameplay with Indiana Jones. Definitely didn’t sell me on the game at all, but I’m not a big Indiana jones fan. Combat looked meh
benstylus
18-Jan(#16)Finn wrote:> I love it, been saying this for YEARS!! But I was brushed off as some looney toon.
> Though I mentioned this before GP was even a thing, it just makes more sense now
> that it is. GP to be sustainable needs to be on everything it can... You you need
> to branch out and fine other sources of revenue to make up for the limited reach
> GP would have. The GP model right now is NOT sustainable. I think MS is better positioned
> as a 3rd party then 1st.
Realistically, they could keep gamepass proprietary to Xbox / PC and make people buy the games on other platforms if they wanted to. MS can afford to play the very long game.
If they did that, then the future of Xbox is 100% digital starting with the next generation or possibly a mid-gen digital-only refresh. Next gen or the one after that I imagine they would be pushing hard for cloud everything too.
Gamepass on PS4 or Switch seems like it would be DOA. Right now, neither Sony or Nintendo want MS to compete against their subscription service on their own platform, so if it is ever allowed, Sony and Nintendo would be getting a significant cut of that $.
Finn
18-Jan(#19)benstylus wrote:> Finn wrote:
>> I love it, been saying this for YEARS!! But I was brushed off as some looney toon.
>> Though I mentioned this before GP was even a thing, it just makes more sense now
>> that it is. GP to be sustainable needs to be on everything it can... You you need
>> to branch out and fine other sources of revenue to make up for the limited reach
>> GP would have. The GP model right now is NOT sustainable. I think MS is better
> positioned
>> as a 3rd party then 1st.
>
> Realistically, they could keep gamepass proprietary to Xbox / PC and make people
> buy the games on other platforms if they wanted to. MS can afford to play the very
> long game.
>
> If they did that, then the future of Xbox is 100% digital starting with the next
> generation or possibly a mid-gen digital-only refresh. Next gen or the one after
> that I imagine they would be pushing hard for cloud everything too.
>
> Gamepass on PS4 or Switch seems like it would be DOA. Right now, neither Sony or
> Nintendo want MS to compete against their subscription service on their own platform,
> so if it is ever allowed, Sony and Nintendo would be getting a significant cut of
> that $.
>
>
I don't know if MS is all that keen on playing that long game though. They have lots of money sure, but how long do you want to bleed or prop up a model that is un-sustainable? I think for sure having some games come to other platforms will help open up other revenue streams... GP is great for the consumer but ultimately I don't trust it.
I think GP on other platforms would work but not like it currently is. I think for it to work on other platforms it has to offer just MS games and not other games, I think what can push Sony and MS away is if non MS first party games show up on GP then you are basically cannibalizing sales. If you just put MS games on a service and offer it at a competitive price it's a win win. Sony and Nintendo make some cash and MS has more subscribers, basically opens up another revenue stream for MS and Nintendo and Sony make money of something that otherwise would not be there.
Simon_Belmont
19-Jan(#20)TalonJedi87 wrote:> This new Indy game looks awesome! Developed by Wolfenstein devs too. Troy Baker as
> Indy also.
>
And Todd Howard is exec producing it, the director of Wolfenstein New Order and Youngblood is behind it. I'm digging the gameplay, combat looks great.
It looks like it's 3rd person during exploration and 1st during combat, which i absolutely love, i wish more games would do this.
Its set between Raiders and Last Crusade, seeing Marcus in the trailer actually brought tears to my eyes. I love him in the series and the actor was a great man.
Simon_Belmont
19-Jan(#21)Shane12m wrote:> Hmm was hoping/expecting more of an uncharted style gameplay with Indiana Jones.
> Definitely didn’t sell me on the game at all, but I’m not a big Indiana jones
> fan. Combat looked meh
It is.
Exploration, puzzles, and interactions etc (like rope swings ) are in 3rd person like Uncharted and combat is in First Person.
"Players control Indy as they navigate through a mix of linear, story-sensitive areas and wider, exploratory landscapes. Combat can either be directly engaged with or circumvented entirely through the use of stealth mechanics, and the character's signature whip can be used as both a weapon, or as a means for traversing across obstacles, and solving various puzzles to uncover alternate paths and obscured collectibles."
SMY36738
* 19-Jan(#22)Indiana Jones and the Great Circle looks very promising! But Senua's Saga: Hellblade II has my full attention at the moment. The first game was great, and I think this sequel is poised to be better with all of the additional funding that Microsoft has. Disappointed that there will be no physical release, but I am not surprised. Avowed also looks solid!
2024 should be a good year for Xbox studios!
benstylus
19-Jan(#25)Finn wrote: > I don't know if MS is all that keen on playing that long game though. They have lots
> of money sure, but how long do you want to bleed or prop up a model that is un-sustainable?
> I think for sure having some games come to other platforms will help open up other
> revenue streams...
They've been propping up Xbox since the early 2000s despite never getting any kind of foothold for the Xbox ecosystem in the Asian markets. That's a huge market not to be competing in.
> GP is great for the consumer but ultimately I don't trust it.
It's great for a certain kind of consumer right now, but I think bad for consumers in general in the long run.
Look at what has happened with video streaming. Dozens of services out there and to watch everything you want, you have to subscribe to multiple, or binge on one service then switch to another, etc. So either you are paying as much as you would have to just buy the stuff, or you have a part time job managing your subscriptions to make sure you are using, pausing, etc. each service at optimal times or you are just throwing away money.
Simon_Belmont
19-Jan(#26)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Just realized the new Indy game will be Xbox and PC exclusives. Sony is probably
> eating their hat right about now. Until that Wolverine game by Insomniac comes out
> that is.
Another M rated Wolverine game would be fantastic.
That Wolverine Origins game was great. 100 times better than the movie.
Simon_Belmont
19-Jan(#28)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Heck yeah. I replayed the Wolverine Origins game so many damn times in the early
> 2010’s. And I think they said they got approval from Marvel to make the new Wolverine
> game M.
Oh my gosh, that's awesome. It was wishfull thinking but it looks like you're on the money.
https://gamerant.com/marvels-wolverine-m-rating-co... Finn
19-Jan(#30)benstylus wrote:> Finn wrote:
>> I don't know if MS is all that keen on playing that long game though. They have
> lots
>> of money sure, but how long do you want to bleed or prop up a model that is un-sustainable?
>> I think for sure having some games come to other platforms will help open up other
>> revenue streams...
>
> They've been propping up Xbox since the early 2000s despite never getting any kind
> of foothold for the Xbox ecosystem in the Asian markets. That's a huge market not
> to be competing in.
>
>> GP is great for the consumer but ultimately I don't trust it.
>
> It's great for a certain kind of consumer right now, but I think bad for consumers
> in general in the long run.
>
> Look at what has happened with video streaming. Dozens of services out there and
> to watch everything you want, you have to subscribe to multiple, or binge on one
> service then switch to another, etc. So either you are paying as much as you would
> have to just buy the stuff, or you have a part time job managing your subscriptions
> to make sure you are using, pausing, etc. each service at optimal times or you are
> just throwing away money.
>
>
>
>
True, but that does not mean it’s going to last forever, they have also said that if GP can’t make the subscriber threshold they have set out that they could pull out of the market. That tells me that there is definitely a time limit.
benstylus
20-Jan(#31)Finn wrote: > True, but that does not mean it’s going to last forever, they have also said that
> if GP can’t make the subscriber threshold they have set out that they could pull
> out of the market. That tells me that there is definitely a time limit.
They just paid 68.7 billion dollars to buy Activision, buy far the highest dollar acquisition of a video game company ever.
For context, the second biggest acquisition was Take Two buying Zynga for 12.7 billion. The MS/Activision deal was nearly five and a half times that.
They ain't pullin' out anytime soon.
Finn
20-Jan(#32)benstylus wrote:> Finn wrote:
>> True, but that does not mean it’s going to last forever, they have also said
> that
>> if GP can’t make the subscriber threshold they have set out that they could
> pull
>> out of the market. That tells me that there is definitely a time limit.
>
> They just paid 68.7 billion dollars to buy Activision, buy far the highest dollar
> acquisition of a video game company ever.
>
> For context, the second biggest acquisition was Take Two buying Zynga for 12.7 billion.
> The MS/Activision deal was nearly five and a half times that.
>
> They ain't pullin' out anytime soon.
>
>
Just repeating what was said. They have a number they want to hit and they want growth. The GP model has to have growth in active accounts or it fails. It's even bigger now because of the acquisition. I believe MS said that if this move does not bring in the numbers they wanted they would indeed pull out out... I think think they would rethink things. I would bet they would leave hardware and focus on selling software personally.
I maybe wrong, but I did say for awhile that MS should go multi plat, said it more when GP came out... it makes more sense, to be successful it means MS has to shift from 1st to 3rd party. They are starting to do it now. It's only a matter of time before it fully happens IMO. It feels as though MS could see the writing on the wall.
Anxiouz
26-Jan(#37)The upcoming XSX refresh isn't going to be a Pro model, and it loses the disc drive. I don't know why they'd even bother with doing that. We throw in old BC discs more than anything in ours.
benstylus
26-Jan(#39)TalonJedi87 wrote:> They’re probably also doing this if true to keep costs down. I usually balk at
> $70 AAA disc based games now and wait for a price drop. And as much as I don’t
> care for digital mostly I’ll concede to paying $10 or so less digital than for
> the disc if push comes to shove.
They aren't going to lower digital game prices because they want you to gamepass
Anxiouz
* 26-Jan(#46)Feeb wrote:> I’m not sure why MS is hellbent on dying on this gamepass hill.
Money. A consistent revenue stream and making like $200M+ each month off it is nothing to sneeze at. It takes away the pressure of having a AAA title flop. Over 2 billion dollars a year is one hell of an incentive to carry on down this path.
I think GP is a great value, especially compared to PS+. PS+ mostly just gets things that GP already had a year prior.
Slickriven
26-Jan(#49)Not trying to bang on Sony for their approach with PS+ but I feel like I read the head of Sony just recently said that he didn't think GP made any sense because people only play one game at a time.
Maybe I didn't catch that correctly, but if so, I have no clue where they got that from. Maybe before GP I was more like that, but in the past 2 weeks or so I've played at least 7 different games on my XSX alone, plus likely 4 more on my PC.
For me with GP, I did the $1 upgrade initially and had right around 2.5 years when I did, then I got a full 37 months and did it again, only for the full 1 month price of $15 then. When that runs out in about 13 months I don't think I'll renew. I've accumulated so many games on that system and others that don't get as much attention, so I'm good with letting the sub lapse and maybe I'd go back to the old Live which is of course now GP-core or whatever - but maybe not, I had Live to play with my college buddy who lives far away, but he's a dad and doesn't play much period and even less so co-op.
I also know other people who didn't game a lot on their X1 but opted to try GP for the $1 price and then didn't pay attention and kept getting charged the $15/month and played virtually zero games via it before I believe eventually waking up to the fact and canceling. I'm sure like with most subs, M$ hopes folks do that and pay for it whilst hardly playing games. I presume that most GP contracts have an 'acquire' component to get games and then a 'use based' fee - meaning that if Ubisoft opts to put AC Syndicate on there, M$ pays them a flat fee and then tracks how much Syndicate gets played and then pays Ubi for time usage and/or number of players whom actually played more than like 30 mins. Clearly that's my assumption, but that model would mean that 1000s of active subs paying $15+/month and playing almost nothing period or think of those CoD only type of players, results in a good bit on income vs. pay outs. Not that GP doesn't seek to promote it's breadth of games, it does, but I'd bet they love folks who really only play 1 or a few games a bunch, vs. folks who play lots and lots of different games.
Groo
27-Jan(#54)MrBean wrote:> See, this just annoys me.
>
> Wanted to grab Lego Star Wars for my kid on Xbox, digitally. $60! Yet, it's $15 physically,
> insane.
standard $18 and deluxe $21 on eshop
TalonJedi87
* 5-Feb(#68)benstylus wrote:> Because when they own the biggest brands I'm gaming, they can sort of dictate the
> direction of the industry.
>
> They are pushing hard for the all digital, zero consumer ownership future where every
> gamer is a continuous revenue stream. Being far and away the largest player in the
> industry allows them to dramatically increase the pace towards that goal.
>
> For every one of us old guard who says we won't take part of that there are plenty
> of younger gamers who will.
>
>
Makes sense. I’m an old core gamer myself and prefer disc vs digital and I can already see them dissolving all future games by disc and pivoting to the all digital future. They’re already starting with Hellblade II this year being all digital I believe. I guess limited run games is going to be the place to go for the old disc folks like myself’s future. Blah.
benstylus
5-Feb(#69)TalonJedi87 wrote: > Makes sense. I’m an old core gamer myself and prefer disc vs digital and I can
> already see them dissolving all future games by disc and pivoting to the all digital
> future. They’re already starting with Hellblade II this year being all digital
> I believe. I guess limited run games is going to be the place to go for the old disc
> folks like myself’s future. Blah.
Or just play the old games til they don't play no more.
Dusk
5-Feb(#71)I wonder if they will do a limited gamepass of sorts for certain platforms where it will be cheaper but less stuff. Maybe only certain exclusives and what not.
Groo
6-Feb(#72)If they have trouble releasing Games, how are they going to do only releasing games? What will Sony Fan Boys do when there is no Xbox, will they talk about the good ole days of hat'in? Will they buy and play MS games or will they still hate on them?
Finn
7-Feb(#73)Dusk wrote:> I wonder if they will do a limited gamepass of sorts for certain platforms where
> it will be cheaper but less stuff. Maybe only certain exclusives and what not.
I think that is the only way Sony or Nintendo OK it. 1st party MS games and nothing that could cut take away from there bottom line. I mean if game "A" comes out on GP on a PlayStation or Nintendo then they loose out on a potential sale. This could be a good thing for MS as it would allow them to cut back on some overhead ie. money tossed at putting 3rd party on GP. At very least 3rd party games need at least a year before they are eligible for GP so not to cut into sales on other consoles. This is honestly why I think Sony's approach is far more sustainable. With all the IP and studios that MS has at there finger tips it should not be a problem pumping out games on a decent schedule right? That's why they did this... that's what they told us.
benstylus
* 8-Feb(#76)benstylus wrote:> To be fair, layoffs are expected after a big merger, as there would probably be quite
> a bit of duplication of staff to be integratred.
>
> The Riot Games layoffs are the bigger story IMO.
>
>
> League of Legends alone brings in nearly 2 billion dollars a year. Even with that
> Riot isn't immune
So as more info comes out about the Xbox layoffs, it's clear that it's a whole lot more than just redundant positions being eliminated after eating Activision.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/tech/article/tech-layo...RIP Toys for Bob
Finn
8-Feb(#80)Apparently there is a bunch of unrest among dev's. They are not liking the new compensation rules since MS is moving away from physical sales and never post sales it's not sitting well with a lot. I can see MS bleeding a lot of the talent they acquired as things shake out.
What gets me though is MS apparently is pushing forward with there next gen console. What is the point? Honestly, I see absolutely no point in owning an Xbox when they go multiplatform. Not only that, look at 3rd party support... Will they want to support a platform with so many question marks around it? The optics are pretty bad when you have MS choosing not to full it's full weight behind a console they made. They have been so wishy washy about there hardware lately.
It also looks like they are renaming Xbox Game Pass to Microsoft Game Pass.
https://media.gamestop.com/i/gamestop/MSFTXBDemoDa...The Xbox branding is there, but it's interesting they name chosen. Instead of Xbox Gamepass it's Microsoft Gamepass.
Slickriven
* 8-Feb(#82)Food for thought but MS just became the first company to hit 3 trillion market cap and passed long time rival Apple for the first time in over a decade. They got there largely thanks to their AI focus, plus shaving costs by reducing staff generally boosts the bottom line. Thus gaming likely isn't as important right now to the bean counters, especially when Sony still flatly outsells them and has better exclusives.
It's sort of funny to me that so many folks were all upset that MS was buying ABK because they feared that would mean CoD (and more) would go Xbox exclusive, only to now moan that MS could go basically non-exclusive for all games. It's like, wait didn't you just want them to do this? I do suspect that the groups that complained in these two cases don't have a lot of crossover, but it's still amusing to me.
Talk about pushing Gears, Halo and even Starfield and Hi-Fi Rush over to the PS5 doesn't bother me, since the first 2 are many years old now, and the latter 2 can only fetch so much revenue from GP. Going timed exclusive, especially with GP titles makes sense to me, but none of us know the financial details of any of these games, decisions, nor how GP funds factor in.
SMY36738
8-Feb(#83)As someone who finally got an Xbox Series X in December... and have been catching up on many Xbox exclusives I missed since 2019 or so, I am concerned about all of the recent multiplatform rumors. I hope only Bethesda and Activation games are on other platforms and not exclusives such as Halo and Gears.
Question: I have Starfield downloaded but am hesitant to start due to the upcoming city maps patch. Is it worth waiting for? Also, does anyone think the XSX version will ever get 60FPS while the XSS stays at 30? Is that unlikely? I may wait if an FPS patch seems likely...
Side note: Redfall, which I am currently playing, is not a great game, but it is not a horrible one either. They patched it to decency and I have having fun with the fast gunplay.
benstylus
* 8-Feb(#89)Finn wrote:> - GP on other platforms. IF you want GP on other platforms look into ways you can
> deliver the service without harming the platform your putting it on. 1st party games
> , fine but if you make 3rd party deals maybe add games that have already been available
> for 12 months so your not stealing sales.
Any gamepass on competing platforms is going to have to not just "not harm" Sony or Nintendo, but strongly benefit them.
Sony and Nintendo have 100% final say over anything that is licensed for their hardware, so if it is perceived as anything but a positive, they can simply choose not to allow it on the system.
> - look into the possibility of scrapping the next console. What's the point in dragging
> out the transition? How many units could you possibly sell when many people feel
> like they are going to be abandoned... Why would they buy another console from you?
If MS really pushes hard into the sub-only and eventually stream-only business they can still get a good number of console sales out of it. Or maybe they will lease those too like a modern cell phone plan.
> Why would 3rd party support you?
The strategy seems to have been buy them all up and they aren't third parties anymore
ryanflucas
9-Feb(#97)Maybe I'm not fully understanding all of this but....
Layoffs aside, who cares? This was already heading to digital only regardless, it's just happening sooner than expected. I doubt the gaming division is going away entirely. I'm a GP subscriber and also have physical games. Everything continues to work as it should. They don't need to call it Xbox GamePass if it ends up working on any platform. It's literally just running as a resource in the cloud on any device with an internet connection. If you have an actual Xbox Series X, maybe it runs better. If you don't, it runs a little slower since there's no dedicated proprietary hardware powering it. Why wouldn't Sony do the same thing with their hardware?
This is essentially digital media being consumed on any platform. If you absolutely must stick to physical games due to principle or preference, you should probably stick to retro consoles or anything Nintendo.
SMY36738
9-Feb(#99)If any of this is true, my guess is that Game Pass will drop all third-party and indie games... and stack it with all Activision, Bethesda, first-party studio games... and offer it on rival platforms... but that is the only way to play CoD and other formerly third party games on the rival platform. With better subscription pricing for those on Xbox Series X|S, as well as third-party and indie games on Xbox Series X|S.
benstylus
9-Feb(#100)SMY36738 wrote:> If any of this is true, my guess is that Game Pass will drop all third-party and
> indie games... and stack it with all Activision, Bethesda, first-party studio games...
> and offer it on rival platforms... but that is the only way to play CoD and other
> formerly third party games on the rival platform. With better subscription pricing
> for those on Xbox Series X|S, as well as third-party and indie games on Xbox Series
> X|S.
Not enough benefit there for Sony/Nintendo. If MS conditions availability of COD on allowing gamepass, Sony could revive Killzone or Socom or something. If there's no more Xbox to play it on, and it's not on Playstation, people in the Sony verse will move to other similar games. Heck maybe this is EA's chance to bring back Medal of Honor or make Battlefield relevant again. Or Ubi could create its 40th Tom Clancy spinoff series.
Nintendo has proven they can get along just fine without COD so they wouldn't take any subscription services that would eat into their own sales.
PizzaTheHutt
10-Feb(#104)Feeb wrote:> Folks preach innovation and complain about remasters etc yet annually they buy more
> madden and CoD than anything.
They buy Pokemon too
DCGX
10-Feb(#110)benstylus wrote:>
> I guess it is true.
>
> In 2021, over [14?] million users (by device) spent 30 percent or more of their
> time playing Call of Duty, over 6 million users spent more than 70% of their time
> on Call of Duty, and about 1 million users spent 100% of their gaming time on Call
> of Duty. In 2021, Call of Duty players spent an average of [116?] hours per year
> playing Call of Duty. Call of Duty players spending more than 70 percent of their
> time on Call of Duty spent an average of 296 hours on the franchise.
>
> It's a small percentage of the overall userbase (less than 1%), but it's also not
> just a handful of people doing it for a youtube stunt or something.
It's definitely a small percentage compared to all gamers, but a small percentage buying one or two games adds up quick versus the rest of gamers buying everything else that's out there.
If I only bought one or two games a year, and had a franchise I only played, I'd buy it every year too, no question regardless of quality.
benstylus
* 16-Feb(#111)https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-game-pass-now-ha...Apparently MS now has 34 million gamepass subscribers, up from 25 million when they last disclosed numbers in early 2022.
Seems like a nice boost, but they also converted Xbox Live Gold subscriptions to Game Pass Core late last year, and those ARE included in the total according to that ign article.
The problem I see is that according to this article from Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/07/17/...Xbox Live Gold had 46 million subs back in May 2020. I'm sure many of them had already converted to Gamepass before the official rebrand of Xbox Live last year, but 46 million in 2020 to 34 million in 2023 is still a net loss of 12 million users, unless I'm missing something?
benstylus
* 16-Feb(#113)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Read that article last night too. That’s still like a half a billion dollars a
> year they’re taking in even with losses.
Assuming every one of those 34 million is on the "cheap" $60/yr plan, that's still $2 billion a year, or 5 Bobby Kotick severance packages.
But how much are they paying in dev costs for first party titles and licensing costs for third parties?
TalonJedi87
16-Feb(#115)benstylus wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> Read that article last night too. That’s still like a half a billion dollars
> a
>> year they’re taking in even with losses.
>
> Assuming every one of those 34 million is on the "cheap" $60/yr plan, that's still
> $2 billion a year, or 5 Bobby Kotick severance packages.
>
> But how much are they paying in dev costs for first party titles and licensing costs
> for third parties?
>
>
>
Licensing is a big Expenditure I’m seeing now. I found an article online saying they spend like hundreds of millions of dollars per month to keep some games on their service.
TalonJedi87
* 16-Feb(#117)I mean yeah...here's an article I found with some absurd gauging licensing fees for GP games (present or future). Some are monthly fees, others are 1 time fees. And for the record I wouldn't pay 50 cents to have Gotham Knights on my anything... that game was just a barrel of disappointment.
"Here’s the full breakdown of estimated costs for including games on Xbox Game Pass (whether at launch, or years after launch in the case of GTA V and Red Dead Redemption 2):
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor – US $300 million
Mortal Kombat 1 – US $250 million
Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League – US $250 million
Assassin’s Creed Mirage – US $100 million
Gotham Knights – US $50 million
Dying Light 2 – US $50 million
Lego Star Wars – US $35 million
Grand Theft Auto V – US $12-15 million per month
Red Dead Redemption 2 – US $5 million per month
Dragon Ball: The Breakers – US $20 million
Wreckfest 2 – US $10-14 million
Return to Monkey Island – US $5 million
Just Dance – US $5 million
Net Crisis Glitch Busters – US $5 million
Blood Runner – US $5 million
Baldur’s Gate 3 – US $5 million"
https://www.gameshub.com/news/news/xbox-game-pass-... Archer
* 16-Feb(#119)TalonJedi87 wrote:> I mean yeah...here's an article I found with some absurd gauging licensing fees for
> GP games (present or future). Some are monthly fees, others are 1 time fees. And
> for the record I wouldn't pay 50 cents to have Gotham Knights on my anything... that
> game was just a barrel of disappointment.
>
> "Here’s the full breakdown of estimated costs for including games on Xbox Game
> Pass (whether at launch, or years after launch in the case of GTA V and Red Dead
> Redemption 2):
>
> Star Wars Jedi: Survivor – US $300 million
> Mortal Kombat 1 – US $250 million
> Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League – US $250 million
> Assassin’s Creed Mirage – US $100 million
> Gotham Knights – US $50 million
> Dying Light 2 – US $50 million
> Lego Star Wars – US $35 million
> Grand Theft Auto V – US $12-15 million per month
> Red Dead Redemption 2 – US $5 million per month
> Dragon Ball: The Breakers – US $20 million
> Wreckfest 2 – US $10-14 million
> Return to Monkey Island – US $5 million
> Just Dance – US $5 million
> Net Crisis Glitch Busters – US $5 million
> Blood Runner – US $5 million
> Baldur’s Gate 3 – US $5 million"
>
Yeah, more amazing journalism at work I see. Those numbers are not what they paid, or were willing to pay. Those numbers are what they thought the partner, a.k.a. the developer/publisher, would ask for their game to be on the service. That is all that is. And it has notes about the game and their thoughts on it being on the service. None of it is concrete or shows any of the actual money involved in any deals. They've never actually said themselves how it works or what they pay. We have just gotten little bits and pieces from smaller devs, and mostly all they have to say is it really helped them out due to the deal they made for it.
Here is link to images of the actual emails with the info:
https://imgur.com/a/pHi74DqIts getting pretty bad with all these lame ass gaming new sites. None of them have legit info anymore. Just like all media these days really. They all just change the info to fit their own narrative with little regard for the actual truth.
Archer
16-Feb(#120)ryanflucas wrote:> Off topic, but I wish Xbox customer support was the same support that handled the
> Microsoft365 business division. Support is complete ass over there. At least the
> gaming division is only half assed.
The office 365/outlook.com/hotmail support is the worst I have ever seen. Its a complete joke. I deal with that stuff regularly, consult and do support for hosting companies and business. And when people use their service ask for my help it really annoys me. Because getting anything resolved from their end takes weeks. Its pretty bad when you can make yahoo look responsive.
TalonJedi87
16-Feb(#122)Archer wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> I mean yeah...here's an article I found with some absurd gauging licensing fees
> for
>> GP games (present or future). Some are monthly fees, others are 1 time fees. And
>> for the record I wouldn't pay 50 cents to have Gotham Knights on my anything...
> that
>> game was just a barrel of disappointment.
>>
>> "Here’s the full breakdown of estimated costs for including games on Xbox Game
>> Pass (whether at launch, or years after launch in the case of GTA V and Red Dead
>> Redemption 2):
>>
>> Star Wars Jedi: Survivor – US $300 million
>> Mortal Kombat 1 – US $250 million
>> Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League – US $250 million
>> Assassin’s Creed Mirage – US $100 million
>> Gotham Knights – US $50 million
>> Dying Light 2 – US $50 million
>> Lego Star Wars – US $35 million
>> Grand Theft Auto V – US $12-15 million per month
>> Red Dead Redemption 2 – US $5 million per month
>> Dragon Ball: The Breakers – US $20 million
>> Wreckfest 2 – US $10-14 million
>> Return to Monkey Island – US $5 million
>> Just Dance – US $5 million
>> Net Crisis Glitch Busters – US $5 million
>> Blood Runner – US $5 million
>> Baldur’s Gate 3 – US $5 million"
>>
>
> Yeah, more amazing journalism at work I see. Those numbers are not what they paid,
> or were willing to pay. Those numbers are what they thought the partner, a.k.a. the
> developer/publisher, would ask for their game to be on the service. That is all that
> is. And it has notes about the game and their thoughts on it being on the service.
> None of it is concrete or shows any of the actual money involved in any deals. They've
> never actually said themselves how it works or what they pay. We have just gotten
> little bits and pieces from smaller devs, and mostly all they have to say is it really
> helped them out due to the deal they made for it.
>
>
> Its getting pretty bad with all these lame ass gaming new sites. None of them have
> legit info anymore. Just like all media these days really. They all just change the
> info to fit their own narrative with little regard for the actual truth.
>
>
Thanks for clarifying. I love some of the notes. Very entertaining. “EA-Jedi Survivor: Crown Jewel. They won’t do.”
ryanflucas
18-Feb(#126)Now that Cyberpunk is fixed and not a steaming pile of crap, it's actually a good game.
Anxiouz
18-Mar(#130)I had an XSX around launch, but then got a PS5 a year or two ago and have only been playing that (my son has the XSX in another room). I want to revisit my decent Xbox library and the Forza games in particular so I'm looking to get another Series console.
I had an XSS at one point but I have lots of BC stuff on discs + the lower res bothered me.
I see the XSX is on sale for $350 on Amazon and a few places right now. That seems like my best option as used prices appear to be in that range? I know the hardware refresh is coming out soon but since it doesn't have a disc drive I don't want it. Anyone selling an XSX? Or is $350 likely my best bet?
Simon_Belmont
19-Mar(#132)Anxiouz wrote:> I had an XSX around launch, but then got a PS5 a year or two ago and have only been
> playing that (my son has the XSX in another room). I want to revisit my decent Xbox
> library and the Forza games in particular so I'm looking to get another Series console.
>
>
> I had an XSS at one point but I have lots of BC stuff on discs + the lower res bothered
> me.
>
> I see the XSX is on sale for $350 on Amazon and a few places right now. That seems
> like my best option as used prices appear to be in that range? I know the hardware
> refresh is coming out soon but since it doesn't have a disc drive I don't want it.
> Anyone selling an XSX? Or is $350 likely my best bet?
I've seen them as low as $249 new. I know i should've waited.
Go to slickdeals and make a saved search for "xbox series x" and it'll email you when one pops up.
Groo
19-Mar(#133)Was the SX on sale the 18th only for $350? Not seeing it, post a link if possible. My Nephew wants one.
Groo
* 19-Mar(#135)Anxiouz wrote:> @Groo It's on the Xbox store on Amazon and I still see it for $350:
Awesome! Thank you!
edit: The Black fooled me, that is the 1TB S.
>
Anxiouz
19-Mar(#136)Oh man, I'm so sorry. Yesterday this had a toggle for XSX vs XSS but now it's just XSS and a lot of redirects take me to this now. Something did change.
Groo
20-Mar(#137)Got Diablo 4 in today, pop in the disc says needs an update: 16gb from Disc 69 GB from Network. Was at about 121 speed. I have 1000mbps Fiber. I checked on the Xbox said DL was at 954. Why was it so slow? And why so little from the disc? Said it was going to take over an hour. I dont remember- this from Diablo 3. I hope I get to enjoy this game, I dont have Gold etc.
Archer
* 20-Mar(#138)Groo wrote:> Got Diablo 4 in today, pop in the disc says needs an update: 16gb from Disc 69 GB
> from Network. Was at about 121 speed. I have 1000mbps Fiber. I checked on the Xbox
> said DL was at 954. Why was it so slow? And why so little from the disc? Said it
> was going to take over an hour. I dont remember- this from Diablo 3. I hope I get
> to enjoy this game, I dont have Gold etc.
This has been an issue with xbox since the X1. Installs from a disc that also require a download take ages.
And you can play online (the only way to play game as its online only) without gold/gpu. But you can not do any of the network stuff. You wont see other players like you normally would. You can't do world events. You can't access a certain vendor (pvp vendor) because you can't earn pvp currency. And it will bug you to purchase it every time you log into the game as well. But you can still enjoy the main story and wonder around the world doing side quests/dungeons.
Feeb
20-Mar(#139)Archer wrote:> Groo wrote:
>> Got Diablo 4 in today, pop in the disc says needs an update: 16gb from Disc 69
> GB
>> from Network. Was at about 121 speed. I have 1000mbps Fiber. I checked on the
> Xbox
>> said DL was at 954. Why was it so slow? And why so little from the disc? Said
> it
>> was going to take over an hour. I dont remember- this from Diablo 3. I hope I
> get
>> to enjoy this game, I dont have Gold etc.
>
> This has been an issue with xbox since the X1. Installs from a disc that also require
> a download take ages.
>
> And you can play online (the only way to play game as its online only) without gold/gpu.
> But you can not do any of the network stuff. You wont see other players like you
> normally would. You can't do world events. You can't access a certain vendor (pvp
> vendor) because you can't earn pvp currency. And it will bug you to purchase it every
> time you log into the game as well. But you can still enjoy the main story and wonder
> around the world doing side quests/dungeons.
Happy bday Archster!
Anxiouz
3-Apr(#144)I feel like MS is mid-pivot but not communicating to existing (or new) customers where they're heading. It feels like we're in a lull and they kinda expect the hardware refreshes coming up to stir excitement..which they most definitely will not.
But for multi-platform stuff...Xbox still has 30M or whatever consoles out there so I think it's still worth dev effort to support that pool of potential customers.
PizzaTheHutt
4-Apr(#150)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Xbox is absolutely not going anywhere so long as Mr. Multi-Billion-Trillion Dollar
> Baby Daddy Microsoft keeps backing them and footing the bill for their ridiculous
> expenditures.
If only they went into Zune with that level of dedication and money.
I still use mine to this day. benstylus
4-Apr(#151)PizzaTheHutt wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> Xbox is absolutely not going anywhere so long as Mr. Multi-Billion-Trillion Dollar
>> Baby Daddy Microsoft keeps backing them and footing the bill for their ridiculous
>> expenditures.
>
>
> If only they went into Zune with that level of dedication and money.
> I still use mine to this day.
>
I haven't heard of anyone using a dedicated mp3 player anymore until you just posted. Most people I think just use their phones now
Archer
4-Apr(#152)benstylus wrote:> PizzaTheHutt wrote:
>> TalonJedi87 wrote:
> |>> Xbox is absolutely not going anywhere so long as Mr. Multi-Billion-Trillion Dollar
> |>> Baby Daddy Microsoft keeps backing them and footing the bill for their ridiculous
> |>> expenditures.
>>
>>
>> If only they went into Zune with that level of dedication and money.
>> I still use mine to this day.
>>
>
> I haven't heard of anyone using a dedicated mp3 player anymore until you just posted.
> Most people I think just use their phones now
>
I still use a very old sandisk tinny mp3 player. I use it when I go for walks/runs or go to the gym. I hate using my phone for that. Phones are too big now days. And if you accidentally drop it the glass will break.
Finn
4-Apr(#153)MrBean wrote:> Microsoft doesn't have a great track record in hardware, but Xbox is indeed not going
> anywhere, anytime soon.
>
> ... Now if the stock would just split already!
I don't think anyone said Xbox is going anywhere.... But there will be a shift from hardware to just software, it makes the most sense. There is a reason why no hardware manufacturer is also a 3rd party dev. They could just drop the Xbox name (doubt it)... Or rename it Xbox Studios ... I think that's great because you still carry the Xbox brand recognition. I think its better then calling it Microsoft Game Studios sor whatever. It is however end of days for MS hardware, that writing is on the wall you just look at it. I would love it if MS would just focus on software. But again could you imagine if that 69 billion was invested on expanding internal studios and reviving dormant IP? MS has never quite learned that you cant spend yourself to a market leading position. It has not helped sales and are stuck in a 3rd place spot. Yes they have greatly improved revenue but again that's on the backs of others. With how many studios they have you would think we would have seen some new AAA stuff... Or just stuff rather then the trickle.
Bleed_DukeBlue
4-Apr(#154)I use an Astell&Kern high fidelity one for when I want to really immerse myself in some music. I have some high end headphones, and I have all of my CDs ripped to FLAC on an SD card. It has made me appreciate the nuances of songs I listened to for years and experience them in a new way. That being said, though, I do use my phone for everyday stuff off of Spotify.
benstylus wrote:> PizzaTheHutt wrote:
>> TalonJedi87 wrote:
> |>> Xbox is absolutely not going anywhere so long as Mr. Multi-Billion-Trillion Dollar
> |>> Baby Daddy Microsoft keeps backing them and footing the bill for their ridiculous
> |>> expenditures.
>>
>>
>> If only they went into Zune with that level of dedication and money.
>> I still use mine to this day.
>>
>
> I haven't heard of anyone using a dedicated mp3 player anymore until you just posted.
> Most people I think just use their phones now
>
>
Archer
4-Apr(#157)MrBean wrote:> Feeb wrote:
>> I have an iPod shuffle. It’s the way.
>
> ... there is no iPod, only Zune!
Are you the gatekeeper or the key master?
benstylus
4-Apr(#158)Finn wrote:> MrBean wrote:
>> Microsoft doesn't have a great track record in hardware, but Xbox is indeed not
> going
>> anywhere, anytime soon.
>
> I don't think anyone said Xbox is going anywhere.... But there will be a shift from
> hardware to just software, it makes the most sense.
With no hardware, there's really no Xbox. If the hardware goes away, they would almost certainly pivot to a new name or revert back to Microsoft.
They kind of already have started gping that direction with Game Pass Ultimate. A very system-agnostic name.
Groo
* 4-Apr(#160)Maybe they should drop forced support of the Xbox Series S.
The Series X has been in the $300-$350 range New many times making the Series S key value $300 not a value. Instead MS doubled down and released a Series S 1TB for $350. Worthless from day 1.
Archer
4-Apr(#161)Groo wrote:> Maybe they should drop forced support of the Xbox Series S.
>
> The Series X has been in the $300-$350 range New many times making the Series S key
> value $300 not a value. Instead MS doubled down and released a Series S 1TB for $350.
> Worthless from day 1.
Yeah, they are killing the XS because of the SS support. Its pathetic. I know the S is cheaper and more people bought it because of that. But it makes owning an X pointless. All games run way worse on the X than a PS5. Even their own games they just released on PS5 run better on PS5 than the damn X.
benstylus
* 4-Apr(#165)TalonJedi87 wrote:> And that’s probably all MS cares about at the end of the day. Those lucrative subs.
>
With the recent discussion that the game pass deals for developers have gotten a lot skimpier, I can't imagine they were actually making much money on it.
They just wanted the explosive growth and kept throwing money as the subs kept coming in, but now that things have hit a bit of a plateau, they have no idea what to do next. (Because apparently "make amazing games" is off the table)
ryanflucas
5-Apr(#169)I'm not too disappointed. Games still look good on my X.
Groo
5-Apr(#170)I am playing Hogwarts Legacy and Diablo 4 on mine. SX still Got the Green on the inside.
PizzaTheHutt
7-Apr(#174)TalonJedi87 wrote:> There’s still a handful in my collection that are missing from BC and
> I’m hoping that they’re going to once and for all just announce that every single
> game will be playable from Xbox and Xbox 360 on modern Xbox consoles.
I don't know if this means they're adding more games though. Back in 2021 they specifically said "we have reached the limit of our ability to bring new games to the catalog from the past due to licensing, legal and technical constraints." (technical being the games that require peripherals).
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/11/15/70-new-back... Staraang
25-Apr(#179)Downloading it now. Fallen Order wasn’t perfect either but definitely was a lot of fun. I’m hearing good things about Survivor. I was playing RDR2 but going to pause that and play this because I only have a few months left on my GPU sub and not sure if I want to renew.
Simon_Belmont
27-Apr(#183)Staraang wrote:> Finally! Been waiting for Jedi Survivor to make it to Gamepass. Letting people here
> know in case they were considering buying it. Supposedly coming out on Thursday.
>
Is it less challenging/easier than the 1st game? I had to rage quit the 1st one because i got stuck on some of the more harder Souls-like sequences. I'd like get back into it with the sequel.
Staraang
27-Apr(#184)Simon_Belmont wrote:> Staraang wrote:
>> Finally! Been waiting for Jedi Survivor to make it to Gamepass. Letting people
> here
>> know in case they were considering buying it. Supposedly coming out on Thursday.
>>
>
> Is it less challenging/easier than the 1st game? I had to rage quit the 1st one because
> i got stuck on some of the more harder Souls-like sequences. I'd like get back into
> it with the sequel.
Didn’t try it yet, hope to be able to play this weekend. You should give the first one another whirl. I’m not even that great of a gamer but managed to muddle through it. You’re almost certainly a more hardcore gamer than me and can likely beat it if I can.
I would get frustrated too and had to try some sequences particularly boss battles repeatedly. I found the key is to build up your skills. Initially I tried over and over to beat some enemies when I first encountered them. Nearly ragequit myself until I realized some of them are nearly impossible until you’ve leveled up especially by acquiring some of the really powerful attacks.
I’ll try the 2nd game out and report back.
Staraang
28-Apr(#185)Alright, got to play Survivor some. Got past the first boss and it's overall quite similar in gameplay to the first game. Overall mechanics and controls are the same and just as good as ever. Some of the camera angle issues are still there but I know this was a bigger deal to others than me. The stances and new skills are cool. There haven't really been any significant puzzles yet. So far I wouldn't call the game especially difficult but a big part of that is I'm already familiar with the controls and some of the fighting tactics.
The thing that struck me most especially when I started the game is how the graphical detail of the environments has been improved. Coruscant looks amazing. So far I'm enjoying the story but it's really just getting started so we'll see how it goes.
benstylus
7-May(#189)Heavyd814life wrote:> The entire industry has a HUGE cost problem.
It seems to be pretty much entirely western studios getting axed.
Even when Japanese companies like Sony are cutting, you don't see news about anyone at Polyphony Digital for example facing job cuts. Instead you hear about Naughty Dog (American), Insomniac (American), Guerilla Games (Dutch), and London Studio (British).
Maybe it's not the entire industry that has the cost problem.
(Insert smug looking Nintendo picture here.)
DCGX
7-May(#192)Archer wrote:> Microsoft has shutdown four Bethesda studios, Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, Alpha
> Dog Games, and Roundhouse Studios. The closure of Arkane Austin, means the people
> who paid for the premium edition of Redfall will now not get the DLC they paid for
> (which is already over a year behind schedule). And Alpha Dog is the team who made
> all the modern Doom games. And Tango Gameworks is the team that made Hi-Fi rush,
> which was a massive hit. And Roundhouse is just being merged into Zenimax Online
> to work on ESO.
Alpha Dog only did the 'Mighty Doom' mobile game, not the reboot and 'Eternal.' I played about 10 minutes of 'Mighty Doom' before I couldn't take it anymore. Arkane Austin is a shock, but I think Tango Gameworks was heading this way already. Most everyone behind their major releases had already left, including the founder. Maybe there just wasn't enough creativity there anymore. I'm speculating of course.
I do agree there's a inflated budget problem, but I don't think it's just games. We've seen this in film for a couple of decades already.
I also don't think it's on the consumer either. The industry was a glut, especially the PS4/Xbox One era, with remasters and half-baked re-releases that no one asked for that big publishers were trying to make a quick buck on, and we're still seeing that a little. But new IPs just take time, AAA or not. That does lead to over-inflated budgets. That fact is, and this is more obvious in games than movies, tech is expensive. Games aren't hour long 2D hops from the 80s and 90s anymore that 10 or less people could make. To make a cinematic game takes a lot of tech and a lot of money. Though some indies are finding a better balance.
People complain about it, but I think SEGA has it right with the 'Like a Dragon' series. Sure there was some low moments and padding within certain entries, but for the most part, that whole series is at the top of cinematic story telling, with, for my money, some of the best narratives in gaming, but they reuse assets like there's no tomorrow. I'm guessing one of those games is a fraction of the cost to make than any of Sony's narrative games, yet their stories stand right next to them.
Feeb
7-May(#194)TalonJedi87 wrote:> I mean, I guess it’s the same application for the movie And film industry. Instead
> of creating new original ideas, they just are now relying on existing IP’s and
> rehashing and creating requels and reboots galore because it’s the safer route
> and they are simply banking on peoples nostalgia. And let’s get real folks, Nostalgia,
> like sex, sells and is one hell of a drug.
Entertainment is the opium of the people. It is the blue pill of a soulless world.
Slickriven
7-May(#195)This is unfortunate for those involved, but I don't see how it's much different vs. what's been happening to EA, Embracer, Square-Enix and others, i.e. I don't think explicitly blaming M$ nor the merger with Bethesda made this worse necessarily. Seems likely that Bethesda and ActBlizKing were going to shrink anyhow. Not absolving crummy execs either, plenty of blame to go 'round. The pandemic caused studio's to grow and demand for games went up when the world was in lockdown, that ended, economy hasn't recovered, games are absurdly expensive to make, especially when trash like SBI and Blackrock DEI crap gets crammed into the mix. Plus overall gaming is likely shrinking a bit for a number of different reasons. Not trying to open the DEI/SBI can here, but it's a growing factor in the industry and right or wrong, lots of gamers are rejecting it and that's having effects on sales.
Specifically for these 3 studios:
Arkane Austin - Redfall was a huge screwup for a very hyped game that surely M$ and Bethesda wanted/expected more out of. Prey and Dishonored earned them a rep that they completely tarnished with Redfall.
Tango Gameworks - Hi-Fi Rush was solid and their previous The Evil Within games were good too, but Hi-Fi should've gone to PS5 sooner and like someone else said, the founder left and surely many other key talents followed him.
Alpha Dog Games - Mighty Doom was alright, it was a phone game so what does one expect. I played it a good while ago but I simply don't spend real $$ on mobile games.
Bleed_DukeBlue
* 7-May(#197)Redfall was not that bad. It was worse than Dishonored 2, and the expectations were too high for Redfall to meet them, but it was fun. It’s even less of a big deal given that it was on Game Pass day one. Arkane Austin deserved better.
Anxiouz
7-May(#198)I just read that Alan Wake 2 still hasn't recoop'd it's dev costs. I feel that it being digital-only significantly impacted sales, but general consensus seems rather positive for the game and it sold well enough. But this would have sunk other studios. That's a pretty scary business to be in.
Hi-Fi Rush is great, and I can't imagine that studio is all that big? But if profits weren't strong enough MS just doesn't want the risk and with hardware tanking, and all that spent acquisition money, they need to build a bit of a war chest.
DCGX
7-May(#199)Anxiouz wrote:> I just read that Alan Wake 2 still hasn't recoop'd it's dev costs. I feel that it
> being digital-only significantly impacted sales, but general consensus seems rather
> positive for the game and it sold well enough. But this would have sunk other studios.
> That's a pretty scary business to be in.
I loved the first 'Alan Wake,' but I still primarily purchase physical and I know a vocal minority spoke out against the choice of digital only. That said, I fully expect a physical release once all the DLC is out. What really hurt AW2 was being an Epic Store exclusive. Not being on Steam is was really hindered its sales. I wonder if they count the money they got from Epic as part of re-couping devs costs or not. I'm guessing not.
> Hi-Fi Rush is great, and I can't imagine that studio is all that big? But if profits
> weren't strong enough MS just doesn't want the risk and with hardware tanking, and
> all that spent acquisition money, they need to build a bit of a war chest.
I played this on Game Pass, like most. I'm guessing, over the past year, Microsoft is finding that putting these games on Game Pass is severely affecting sales and the breakdown of subs is not making up the cost difference. It's another game that I would've bought physically in a heart beat, and was excited for the announcement from Limited Run Games that they will be doing the physical, even if it is LRG. Hopefully that still happens. I understand the thought process of having smaller games being perfect for a subscription service, I agree with that to an extent, but it doesn't seem to be worth the cost even with smaller budgets. Who knows at this point. I think Microsoft has worked themselves into a corner with Game Pass. That I could've told them from early on.
Slickriven
7-May(#202)I haven't tried Redfall yet but want to, it actually landed in my randomly selected set of games to try next. I didn't mean to imply that it was horrible, but it certainly wasn't good at launch and like say Watch Dogs or Cyberpunk2077 it was overhyped and missed those expectations.
Alan Wake 2 is interesting as to why it didn't do great - Epic and no Steam, digital only, not playing fully as Alan, race swapping Saga and having her be very shallow... just lots of missteps.
I heard some info about GP not long ago about how early on M$ was throwing some big $$$ at devs to get them to put games on the service, especially for day 1 launches, but that has dried up a LOT. Personally I have little issue/almost prefer that a game doesn't go on there day 1. Let the dev/pub get more sales to the folks that just have to buy it/are willing to pay to play it right away. Then 3, 6, heck even 12 months later get it on GP. Jedi Survivor just finally landed on EAplay and thus GPU almost exactly 1 year after launch. I liked Fallen Order a good bit but wasn't compelled to buy Survivor and waited it out, will be playing that soon as well since it's now available to me.
I also have noticed that lots of games, especially smaller ones, tend to hit some of the same free or cheap options around the same time. Like M$ will add it to GP, then Epic and/or Amazon Games will give it away for free and maybe it'll land on PS+ as well.
Feeb
8-May(#204)DCGX wrote:> I don't know. Most of the games on Game Pass are also available on PlayStation's
> premium service or their monthly freebies anyway. There are exceptions, but it's
> a pretty big overlap. Unless people are itching to get something on PS before it
> hits those options.
>
>
True. To clarify- MS first party games would greatly benefit from a strategy like that.
Staraang
8-May(#206)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Oh yeah MS Game Pass is a great value but almost too great of a value and some people,
> myself included, don’t just keep an active rolling 12 month subscription but rather
> look for those cheap 3 month codes and sub in for a limited time and play the few
> new shiny games then bounce not to be seen again until the next wave of new games
> comes out on the service. By folks like me who do that it probably really hinders
> their overall sales growth.
This is probably going to be my strategy when my sub expires in August. I want to complete Jedi Survivor before then which shouldn’t be an issue. I would’ve liked to complete Sea of Stars too but that’s going to be ambitious with my summer schedule. I’ll probably just start working through my backlog once I lose GP.
Heavyd814life
8-May(#207)Slickriven wrote:> Specifically for these 3 studios:
> Arkane Austin - Redfall was a huge screwup for a very hyped game that surely M$ and
> Bethesda wanted/expected more out of. Prey and Dishonored earned them a rep that
> they completely tarnished with Redfall.
> Tango Gameworks - Hi-Fi Rush was solid and their previous The Evil Within games were
> good too, but Hi-Fi should've gone to PS5 sooner and like someone else said, the
> founder left and surely many other key talents followed him.
Your point about Tango is why I'm so worried about Ninja Theory. Their founder left last month and I have no idea who heads up the studio now. It's always my worry when a megacorp buys a studio. Key people end up leaving oftentimes to start smaller, more agile studios and all that's left is the original studio name and IP.
Heavyd814life
* 8-May(#208)Archer wrote:> According to a new report from IGN, the announcement caught Arkane developers by
> surprise as they were still actively working on the first-person shooter, including
> its now-cancelled Hero Pass DLC. It's said that Arkane Austin was also working on
> an update for Redfall, due out this month, which would have added an offline mode
> to the shooter.
>
> So now its another game lost to history once the servers go offline. Which will probably
> be soon.
>
> I feel bad for the Arkane Austin people. These people have taken a lot of abuse over
> the game. But they've been working on it apparently non stop to make it what players
> wanted, and what they wanted it to be. They were forced to release it way too early
> due to the Bethesda acquisition by Microsoft. I guess they wanted another full year
> to work on it, they were told no. Microsoft wanted something for game pass in early
> 2023, so the game was rushed. Pretty messed up.
I remember reading something last year that they didn't even want to make Redfall. And then it was rushed out to fill the Gamepass quota during that period of transition where there doesn't seem to have been much oversight from Microsoft. Hurts to lose a dev this talented and makes me worry for all devs.
Someone mentioned Alan Wake a few posts ago and apparently Remedy's next game is a live service game. Feels like it could be Rocksteady all over again. We live in a world now where blockbusters are too expensive and anything unique is too risky. So live service games and remakes is all anyone wants to greenlight. If you can't monetize a game or find a way to play on nostalgia, you're kinda screwed.
Finn
8-May(#211)benstylus wrote:> Finn wrote:
>> It may not be recent and most of the current shutdowns have been western studios
>> but lets not forget Japan Studios.
>
> My understanding is although the studio was technically closed, it was mostly reorganized
> into other studios like Team Asobi
That's right, forgot about that one. But I still think Sony Lost some talent over that.
Shane12m
8-May(#215)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or
> AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.
I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There are a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and become huge successes
benstylus
8-May(#216)Shane12m wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or
>> AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.
>
> I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There are
> a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and
> become huge successes
You might think indies have a better chance but how many indie titles in a given year make any kind of splash?
Then compare that to the total number of games released every year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/552623/number-...Last year there were over 12,000 games released on Steam. Lets assume at least 11,000 of those were indies (probably much higher... I doubt the big publishers are collectively releasing 3 games a day every day all year to get to 1000+).
Start naming all your favorite indie darlings of 2023... For each one you can name there are probably 500 more that went nowhere saleswise.
Archer
8-May(#217)benstylus wrote:> Shane12m wrote:
>> TalonJedi87 wrote:
> |>> Seems that the direction the industry is heading in is you need to be a AAA and/or
> |>> AAAA game developer or GTFO nowadays apparently. What a world.
>>
>> I don’t see that at all. In fact I think it’s gonna go the opposite. There
> are
>> a lot of indie games with small teams or one person that make a lot of money and
>> become huge successes
>
> You might think indies have a better chance but how many indie titles in a given
> year make any kind of splash?
>
> Then compare that to the total number of games released every year.
>
>
> Last year there were over 12,000 games released on Steam. Lets assume at least 11,000
> of those were indies (probably much higher... I doubt the big publishers are collectively
> releasing 3 games a day every day all year to get to 1000+).
>
> Start naming all your favorite indie darlings of 2023... For each one you can name
> there are probably 500 more that went nowhere saleswise.
>
>
11K of those weren't indie games though. 1K of those were indies. And 10k of those were shovelware, or trashware. Whatever term you prefer. Steam, PS and Nintendo are overrun with garbage releases. 80-85% of all games released on all three platforms fall into that shovelware category now. Its pathetic.
And just for arguments sake, so there is clarification. An indie is a game made by someone with actual development knowledge or skills. Someone using actual tools that aren't free to the public, or hold your hand WYSIWYG tools. Like RPG Maker for example. Or someone who owns an actual business that makes profitable games. Shovel/trashware are games that anyone of us could just slap together with basic tools and minimal knowledge/skills and get it listed for sale. I'm sure I don't need to provide examples, we all see them. All those under $5 games. Or all the anime porn bullcrap on steam.
benstylus
9-May(#220)Archer wrote:> 11K of those weren't indie games though. 1K of those were indies. And 10k of those
> were shovelware, or trashware. Whatever term you prefer. Steam, PS and Nintendo
> are overrun with garbage releases. 80-85% of all games released on all three platforms
> fall into that shovelware category now. Its pathetic.
>
> And just for arguments sake, so there is clarification. An indie is a game made by
> someone with actual development knowledge or skills. Someone using actual tools that
> aren't free to the public, or hold your hand WYSIWYG tools. Like RPG Maker for example.
> Or someone who owns an actual business that makes profitable games. Shovel/trashware
> are games that anyone of us could just slap together with basic tools and minimal
> knowledge/skills and get it listed for sale. I'm sure I don't need to provide examples,
> we all see them. All those under $5 games. Or all the anime porn bullcrap on steam.
I would guess the anime porn games are more profitable than most games that you would define as indies.
But that's part of the problem. With the flood of crap being so ubiquitous, it's often difficult to find the "good" indie titles. If they don't get noticed within the first few days of coming out, they usually get buried under the pile.
Even if the number of quality indies is closer to 1,000 a year, still maybe 2 to 3 percent of those make it big. Not great odds.
Finn
9-May(#221)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Yeah and if COD hits GP then it’ll get another price hike. Soon the value is going
> to be outweighed by the monthly fee me thinks because once it creeps up and approaches
> a wifi or cell phone bill monthly price that’s when folks might start questioning
> its real value.
Honestly I think you are going to see a price hike without the addition of new COD's. By putting the game day one on GP lets say 1 million people don't buy the new COD and instead get it on GP and lets say 70% are digital sales and 30% are physical. You are looking at roughly 63.7 million dollars that the people getting the game on GP have to spend in COD cosmetics and currency just to break even and hope for more spending to make some more money. That's a tall ask IMO. I don't buy in game cosmetics at all and getting the game on GP would not change that.. The only game that manages to get me to spend was WoW back in the day and now Fall Guys, I don't spend a lot but it offers the most temptation lol... well that and Pokemon GO when I played it more but I have not spent any money on that since my kid was born so....
Raising the price of GPU or GP for that matter may drive up sales a tad if people opt to just buy the game and forget about GP, but that would hurt the GP model and the fact that even MS has acknowledged the slow growth in new subs. Something gonna have to break at some point.
Slickriven
9-May(#223)Part of the miscalculation here is M$ looking at a game coming to GP Day 1 and thinking, this needs to drive X# of new subs. Epic store has/had similar thoughts with offering free games each week.
To ding Hi-Fi Rush for low sales makes no sense when nobody knew it was coming and it went to GP. So the active subs like me opted to try it out, maybe right away, maybe a few weeks/months later, but I just don't think it was going to entice hundreds, let alone thousands of new or returning GP subs. The genre isn't that big of a driver, sure the pedigree of Tango likely drove some interest, but clearly that wasn't enough.
Similar with Epic, them offering a certain game for free this week might get some new customers, but the vast majority of customers are likely already present, while some will almost never come onboard bc they hate the company or head guy.
I really think to save GP day 1 releases should get heavily limited. It likely made sense initially to drive interest but now the vast majority of potential subs have tried out the service and decided if they'll stay subbed or join periodically or never bother.
PizzaTheHutt
* 9-May(#226)TalonJedi87 wrote:> I mean while it certainly is nice to have a $70 game as a day 1 release, I guess
> if it keeps costs and monthly premiums down to release new titles a few months post
> launch I would be a fan of that. Plus, there's no way with my, and I'm sure other
> folks, limited time schedules, to play most new game releases day or even week 1
> anyway nowadays.
Exactly. People crapped on PS+ Extra and PS+ Premium when they were introduced a couple years ago for not getting AAA games on day one like GamePass, but I don't care, there's more than enough to play that I don't need everything day one. If a game is good on day one, it'll still be good a year later. In fact it'll probably be better a year later with all the updates and extra content that were added over time. I have games like Dead Island 2, Dead Space Remake and others that I'm forgetting right now, all 2023 releases that I've still never gotten around to playing yet. No rush. Today I'm going to download Animal Well on PS+ and I'll play and hope to enjoy it probably more than any other AAA title that released day one on GamePass so far in 2024.
Archer
* 10-May(#236)Feeb wrote:> Hellblade 2 is due on the 21st may. I’m not hearing much about it. What’s going
> on?
Everyone is concerned about it since Ninja Theory was bought by Microsoft. And there is mounting concern if this game doesn't set record numbers they could get shut down as well. Also rumors now that it was rushed to meet quarterly targets. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, or any of the concerns. Its all just speculation and rumors at this point. Its also an xbox exclusive (also pc I think) for the time being. So it doesn't have the big hype as it would if it was on all systems. The first game sold the most copies on PS4, and now its not on PS5. People are are really down on xbox and anything exclusive to them seems to be cancer at this point. So I think a lot of the hype died outside the people that loved the first game.
Feeb
* 10-May(#237)Archer wrote:> Feeb wrote:
>> Hellblade 2 is due on the 21st may. I’m not hearing much about it. What’s
> going
>> on?
>
> Everyone is concerned about it since Ninja Theory was bought by Microsoft. And there
> is mounting concern if this game doesn't set record numbers they could get shut down
> as well. Also rumors now that it was rushed to meat quartlyer targets. I have no
> idea if there is any truth to that, or any of the concerns. Its all just speculation
> and rumors at this point. Its also an xbox exclusive (also pc I think) for the time
> being. So it doesn't have the big hype as it would if it was on all systems. The
> first game sold the most copies on PS4, and now its not on PS5. People are are really
> down on xbox and anything exclusive to them seems to be cancer at this point. So
> I think a lot of the hype died outside the people that loved the first game.
I don’t do twitter anymore but months ago HB2 was already a hot topic. Take that with a grain of salt since most discussions on Twitter are probably paid mouth pieces etc. but there was a palpable hype.
Anxiouz
* 10-May(#241)The first one looked great and had some cool concepts and audio, but was an extremely simple game. By the end I was pretty bored. The bar for the sequel (to me) is pretty low. As a GP title I'm excited about it and think it'll get a lot of play from folks, but I don't know about sales. It looks like the focus again was on mo-cap and graphics, and without marketing $ being spent I can't imagine it's going to veer too far from the original.
Heavyd814life
10-May(#243)Feeb wrote:> Personally thought it was a strange game to hype as a big mainstream system seller
> at Xbox series launch. The first one is not much more than a tech demo- cool but
> pretty minimalist.
Couldn't agree more. The first game was made on a shoestring budget. It was always supposed to be a niche, arthouse type of game. But I figured with the way they pushed it at the start of the generation, it was going to have a bigger size and scope, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. It's also a digital only game so you're limiting your audience even more and I feel like the vast majority of people will just play it on Gamepass and won't actually buy it.
Hopefully there'll be more hype once reviews come in and it'll generate enough buzz to sell well on Steam. Plus I think Ninja Theory's core audience is actually on PlayStation so maybe they'll port it over and it'll do well?
But it just speaks to the broader issue with the industry. The game has been in development for 6 years and we're worried it needs more time in the oven. We're just two generations removed from a time where we'd get whole trilogies in 6-7 years (Uncharted, Dead Space. Mass Effect, BioShock etc). Now we're lucky if we get 1 game from a series in a generation.
benstylus
11-May(#244)TalonJedi87 wrote:> It’s also kind of ironic when you think about how MS expects an exponential and
> exuberant amount of growth for these first party titles when they’re releasing
> day 1 on GP too the more I think about it. How can one quantify units sold when half
> the folks are just playing and renting/leasing these titles day and week 1 on GP?
> Are they tracking sales via new subs I wonder during the launch period of titles
> such as the upcoming Hellblade II or what? Like what method of tallying up said game
> sales is MS using and is it really that accurate I wonder with these titles releasing
> on GP day one? How do they trace hybrid sales?
That's the thing - we really don't know what MS expects. On the one hand they say a game has been a success by all measures, then on the other hand they just up and close the studio.
The fewer studios they have, the less content they can require be on day 1 GP, and with every surprise studio closure, resentment builds. I can guarantee you that the talented individuals now looking for work aren't going to be super keen to work on a gamepass game. And with the high dollar deals for that having dried up too, even fewer 3rd party studios are going to want to go that route.
Anxiouz
* 17-May(#256)Slickriven wrote:> Immortals of Aveum joins GPU today via EAplay. Anyone play it? It worth trying out?
I played about 3/4 through it. It's just ok. The core shooting gameplay isn't very satisfying so adding more and harder enemies as you go doesn't make it more fun. I mostly gave it a try to see an Unreal engine 5, and honestly it's not a super impressive example.
PizzaTheHutt
19-May(#260)Archer wrote:> The XS is being compared to the WiiU.
The ultimate insult.
Archer
19-May(#263)Feeb wrote:> Not to mention they lumped the series sales numbers when they did report them- correct?
>
Yeah, both models are combined as one unit. But I'd imagine the S sells better than the X because its cheaper.
Heavyd814life
19-May(#266)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Anything that’s cheaper is going to sell better IMO. Especially with people and
> say parents with budgets that just get their kids the cheapest console that’s new
> and it’s by the same name and some parents probably didn’t give a crap so they’re
> like this is the new Xbox right? Yeah I’ll take the cheaper one. Merry X-Mas Billy.
> Also I did read in an article a few weeks back that even Sony is seeing a decline
> in PS5 sales and is looking for new creative ways to boost back up their sales numbers.
> I mean what did these corpo leeches expect? Once supply catches up to demand things
> will inevitably level out.
Nah PS5 sales are perfectly fine. It's trending 7% ahead of the PS4. And that's despite the economy being crap and the PS5 still not seeing a price cut. At this point in the PS4 lifecycle, it was already $300 and the PS5 is still $500. Sony just needs to make more realistic sales projections and cut down the development costs. Which they seem to be trying to doing. I like the Japanese dude that's in charge now. Much better than that asshat Jim Ryan.
Also this generation is kinda meh and the PS5 is kinda mid. The fact that the Xbox is posting numbers this bad is worrying for competition in the high-end console space. Sony is coasting and still pulling away somehow. And don't get me started on the Xbox. Buying a bunch of devs and studios when they could barely manage the ones they already had. And someone please explain to me how Matt Booty still has a job. I swear that guy must have some dirt on someone because I have no idea how he is still employed. They change their messaging every two minutes and can't go 2 months without a PR blunder. It's always 2 steps forward and 5 steps back.
Heavyd814life
* 19-May(#267)Archer wrote:> Analysts are now saying based on financial reports, that the xbox is being outsold
> 5 to 1 to the PS5. There are no solid numbers because they wont release them. But
> they are using the quarterly reports to make the assumptions. The XS is being compared
> to the WiiU. They have similar sales numbers, or so they think. Thats not good.
It's annoying that we don't have concrete numbers. And it's similar numbers JUST for the last quarter, right? Because I'm pretty sure the Series consoles have doubled the lifetime sales of the Wii U already.
I wonder how they could have posted numbers that bad last quarter, though. Maybe I'll do some research in the morning to see if there are estimates for lifetime sales quarter by quarter. Less than 1 million consoles shipped for a quarter is pretty dire, but I think we need to see that for multiple quarters before we can consider it a trend. Xbox has a good slate of games between now and the end of the year so I don't expect it to be this bad rest of year. If it is then RIP for sure.
Archer
20-May(#268)Heavyd814life wrote:> Archer wrote:
>> Analysts are now saying based on financial reports, that the xbox is being outsold
>> 5 to 1 to the PS5. There are no solid numbers because they wont release them.
> But
>> they are using the quarterly reports to make the assumptions. The XS is being
> compared
>> to the WiiU. They have similar sales numbers, or so they think. Thats not good.
>
>
> It's annoying that we don't have concrete numbers. And it's similar numbers JUST
> for the last quarter, right? Because I'm pretty sure the Series consoles have doubled
> the lifetime sales of the Wii U already.
>
> I wonder how they could have posted numbers that bad last quarter, though. Maybe
> I'll do some research in the morning to see if there are estimates for lifetime sales
> quarter by quarter. Less than 1 million consoles shipped for a quarter is pretty
> dire, but I think we need to see that for multiple quarters before we can consider
> it a trend. Xbox has a good slate of games between now and the end of the year so
> I don't expect it to be this bad rest of year. If it is then RIP for sure.
>
>
Yes, the WiiU comparison is for just this previous quarter. Not lifetime.
Looks liked combined its sold almost 28M units as of February. So now around 30M. But these are all just best guess numbers.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1429647/xbox-c...With the PS5 60M units its 2 to 1 lifetime still. 5 to 1 this past quarter and the last year. PS5 sold the same units of SX this quarter as xbox all last year. Again, not solid numbers. But if true, horrible.
Xbox had stronger sales number over covid starting years at the launch of the gen, when the PS5 was harder to find due to the chip shortage. But has drop way off since, over the last two years. 30M units almost five years into the life isn't great. Especially since the consoles life span is roughly half over. And sales will only continue to go down unless it has a very large price drop and a bunch of exclusives to get people to buy it. I think their biggest issues with xbox is PC having 1:1 with xbox. Nothing is exclusive to xbox. If its an xbox exclusive its also on PC. And PC also has a cheaper version of gamepass. They are losing numbers to their own company but not making the sales on the hardware end. They are also clearly losing numbers to Sony. But the whole PC thing hurts them too. Its not just the lame exclusives and the whole GP thing. I myself have thought a lot about not getting the next xbox console and just finally getting around to building a new gaming PC.
Bleed_DukeBlue
20-May(#271)I'm not sure I get this line of thinking on the PS side. I definitely think the PS5 provides more than a minimal hardware boost. Aside from improved graphics and boosts to fps (e.g., Destiny 2 on the PS5 can do 4K 60fps in PVE and up to 120fps in PVP), the controller (thanks to haptics and better rumble support) is much better. Playing Astro's Playroom when I first got my PS5 definitely felt next gen to me due to the haptic feedback. Probably the biggest change to me, though, is that the PS5 opened the door for the PSVR2, which is leaps and bounds better than the PSVR.
Archer wrote:> Yeah, its really strange that at this point in the cycle of the current consoles,
> that so many games are still coming out on the previous console. And even games that
> are only coming out on those consoles. Still lots of PS4 games that don't have a
> PS5 app version. Because they know you can still play it on PS5 I guess, so why bother.
> Same on Xbox. Doesn't have to be an XS version. And no one has announced any plans
> to make that stop. But I guess that is just another point as to why this generation
> feels so lame as Heavy pointed out above. No one really has any incentive to only
> develop for the current systems. The systems don't feel special or unique. They are
> just minimal hardware advances. We also don't have that many games on these systems
> that really showcase their potential. Almost five years into the life span. This
> whole generation feels weird.
Archer
* 20-May(#274)Bleed_DukeBlue wrote:> I'm not sure I get this line of thinking on the PS side. I definitely think the
> PS5 provides more than a minimal hardware boost. Aside from improved graphics and
> boosts to fps (e.g., Destiny 2 on the PS5 can do 4K 60fps in PVE and up to 120fps
> in PVP), the controller (thanks to haptics and better rumble support) is much better.
> Playing Astro's Playroom when I first got my PS5 definitely felt next gen to me
> due to the haptic feedback. Probably the biggest change to me, though, is that the
> PS5 opened the door for the PSVR2, which is leaps and bounds better than the PSVR.
>
You didn't understand what I posted (probably because I type so disjointed). I'm saying most people don't have a reason to upgrade. Neither system is doing anything to make people feel the need to rush out and buy the consoles. The games just aren't there for that. And the ones that are can all be ran on the last gen systems just fine. They are not taking advantage of the systems. And even the small amount of ones made for just these systems, mostly struggle to hit those metrics you posted anyways. The ones that truly take advantage are last gen games being up-scaled to the new systems. Like Destiny 2. Also no one uses the controller stuff. There are hardly any games taking advantage of that. Because games are mostly designed to also play on the PS4. So they just ignore that stuff. And PSVR2, as with PSVR and all VR is a very niche market. Most people don't care about that or even buy that stuff. Has it sold some PS5 units. Yes. But the number of people who own a PS5 and the people that also own PSVR is not that much. 60m consoles sold and only 2m PSVR2 sales. Same thing with last gen and that vr setup as well. Since the games still coming on the old system, the average person sees the new console as just a minor hardware upgrade. They think, why should I spend $500 when my current console still gets the same games and plays them just fine.
Anxiouz
20-May(#275)Archer wrote:> I'm saying most people don't have a reason to upgrade. Neither system is doing anything
> to make people feel the need to rush out and buy the consoles. The games just aren't
> there for that.
This. And what I've been reading about the PS5 Pro...that doesn't make a case for itself either. This whole gen has been weird with covid hardware shortages, cross-gen making it less necessary to upgrade, and peaks and valleys of new releases. Right now I feel we're in a huge lull.
Feeb
21-May(#277)benstylus wrote:> Seems like there are more Genesis releases this year than PS5
>
>
Dunno what’s coming up- but I’ve been playing my ps5 non stop this year. There is too much on my plate to keep up. I haven’t finished stellar blade nor started hell divers 2. Barely touched MLB the show and NCAA is coming in two months. I’ll be set.
SMY36738
22-May(#279)Archer wrote:> Sounds like that final redfall offline patch is going to come out afterall. I might
> check it out again after it does. They've released a lot of patches for it. And I
> guess it doesn't play as horribly as it did at launch.
I played it back in February, and most issues have been fixed...but certain things like long pauses booted you from the game exist. That should all be corrected with "single player pausing" and offline, etc. The game was fine - but not great. Worth a playthrough though. I am a big fan of Dishonored, Prey and Deathloop, so this was as a good, but they patched it from being a train wreck.
Anxiouz
23-May(#280)As I expected, the Hellblade 2 user reviews seem to be either zeros or tens with very little in-between. I'll probably check it out this weekend for the graphics...and because it's on GP.
Archer
9-Jun(#285)Feeb wrote:> Any release dates? I feel like most of this is just regurgitated promises.
I think only two or three of them had actual dates. And those were indie games. Everything else was things like, Coming in 2024 or Coming in 2025. A few of them had things like, later this year in 2024. Or Coming in Fall 2024. Coming in October 2024. Etc. But those are all so non committal it most likely means there is a high chance of delays.
Anxiouz
9-Jun(#286)I was just about to start Gears 5 again but am going to hold off to see if the next Gears is expected soon. That would be great to see.
Archer wrote:> And whats up with the cartoonish Fortnite graphics. Ugh.
I think this style is gaining steam because it holds up better over time and hides how old something is. So 5-8 years later it'll be seen as distinct instead of out-dated.
Archer
9-Jun(#288)Anxiouz wrote:> Archer wrote:
>> And whats up with the cartoonish Fortnite graphics. Ugh.
>
> I think this style is gaining steam because it holds up better over time and hides
> how old something is. So 5-8 years later it'll be seen as distinct instead of out-dated.
>
I could get behind that, if it wasn't for the fact that it doesn't look good
now.
Heavyd814life
9-Jun(#290)Archer wrote:> That Dragon Age disaster though. Fudge new Bioware. Wrong tone for the franchise.
> That felt like a trailer for an online shooter. And whats up with the cartoonish
> Fortnite graphics. Ugh.
Dude that 100% looked like a trailer for an online shooter. And when did they change the name? I thought it was called Dreadwolf. And why do Scout Harding and Varric look like that? Who thought this art direction was a good idea for a Dragon Age game???
Maybe it’s just a bad trailer and the actual gameplay reveal won’t suck? Because i’m actually speechless right now.
Finn
10-Jun(#300)Feeb wrote:> I find it interesting that these folks think someone would be very eager to buy Halo-
> but hasn’t already. There is something missing from this line of reasoning.
I would buy it to play on my PS5 for sure, I would even pre-order it.. I would do the same with Gears and I might even buy a Forza game...
Feeb
10-Jun(#301)Finn wrote:> Feeb wrote:
>> I find it interesting that these folks think someone would be very eager to buy
> Halo-
>> but hasn’t already. There is something missing from this line of reasoning.
>
>
> I would buy it to play on my PS5 for sure, I would even pre-order it.. I would do
> the same with Gears and I might even buy a Forza game...
>
>
I’m sure people say this- especially if it’s a new or remastered game- my point was that people who really want to play exclusives likely already do. I don’t think exclusivity is a barrier to most gamers- but it’s a big talking point. I’d think that games like Sea of Thieves would actually thrive with release on other platforms- not a system seller or huge IP like halo- a game that many miss for these reasons.
Xbox gamers who have never played bloodborne or PS gamers that haven’t played Halo- that seems like a pretty casual minority.
Heavyd814life
* 12-Jun(#303)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Just watched a bit of the Dragon Age Veilguard gameplay trailer and holy generic
> action combat Batman. SMH. And BioWare continues to be dead to me.
>
I actually really dug it. But I think I'm in the minority there. And I think - or at least I hope - that it looks kinda button mashy/hack and slash-y because you're a low level Rogue with only one special unlocked. I'm eager to see how a Mage plays. But yeah, I just finished up Origins for like the 5th time and this is definitely not Origins. I thought I'd hate the fact that it's no longer a tactical party-based RPG, but I don't. It gives me Mass Effect vibes with the focus on your character and a specials wheel for your abilities. It's a pretty game and it looks really polished - at least from this vertical slice. They say it's going to be mission-based not open world so I wonder if it'll be like DA2 where you have a central hub and then you travel to smaller areas for missions. I watched the entire 20 minute video and I'm really looking forward to seeing more.
I think there is an issue with the marketing vision for this game, though. The initial hero shooter looking trailer they showed is about as bad a first impression as you could have made for a game that needed to make a great first impression. And then this demo focuses too much on early game stuff. They show off only one combat style and I think if they had maybe shown early game stuff with a low level Rogue and then mid game stuff with a higher level Mage - maybe there would have been more variety and it wouldn't have come across as repetitive.
I still don't know how I feel about the art style, but I don't hate it as much as I did in the initial trailer. I think it'll grow on me. I think the story, characters, and the decision/consequence system are going to make or break the game. Baldur's Gate 3 has set the bar high so BioWare is kinda up against it. But I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm probably letting my BioWare fandom get the better of me here, but I'm pretty sure this is a day 1 buy for me.
EDIT: Happy birthday, man!
Feeb
12-Jun(#304)TalonJedi87 wrote:> Just watched a bit of the Dragon Age Veilguard gameplay trailer and holy generic
> action combat Batman. SMH. And BioWare continues to be dead to me.
>
Happy birthday
🎉
TalonJedi87
13-Jun(#305)Heavyd814life wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> Just watched a bit of the Dragon Age Veilguard gameplay trailer and holy generic
>> action combat Batman. SMH. And BioWare continues to be dead to me.
>>
>
> I actually really dug it. But I think I'm in the minority there. And I think - or
> at least I hope - that it looks kinda button mashy/hack and slash-y because you're
> a low level Rogue with only one special unlocked. I'm eager to see how a Mage plays.
> But yeah, I just finished up Origins for like the 5th time and this is definitely
> not Origins. I thought I'd hate the fact that it's no longer a tactical party-based
> RPG, but I don't. It gives me Mass Effect vibes with the focus on your character
> and a specials wheel for your abilities. It's a pretty game and it looks really polished
> - at least from this vertical slice. They say it's going to be mission-based not
> open world so I wonder if it'll be like DA2 where you have a central hub and then
> you travel to smaller areas for missions. I watched the entire 20 minute video and
> I'm really looking forward to seeing more.
>
> I think there is an issue with the marketing vision for this game, though. The initial
> hero shooter looking trailer they showed is about as bad a first impression as you
> could have made for a game that needed to make a great first impression. And then
> this demo focuses too much on early game stuff. They show off only one combat style
> and I think if they had maybe shown early game stuff with a low level Rogue and then
> mid game stuff with a higher level Mage - maybe there would have been more variety
> and it wouldn't have come across as repetitive.
>
> I still don't know how I feel about the art style, but I don't hate it as much as
> I did in the initial trailer. I think it'll grow on me. I think the story, characters,
> and the decision/consequence system are going to make or break the game. Baldur's
> Gate 3 has set the bar high so BioWare is kinda up against it. But I'm cautiously
> optimistic. I'm probably letting my BioWare fandom get the better of me here, but
> I'm pretty sure this is a day 1 buy for me.
>
> EDIT: Happy birthday, man!
>
>
Thanks man!
TalonJedi87
13-Jun(#306)Feeb wrote:> TalonJedi87 wrote:
>> Just watched a bit of the Dragon Age Veilguard gameplay trailer and holy generic
>> action combat Batman. SMH. And BioWare continues to be dead to me.
>>
>
> Happy birthday
> 🎉
Thanks dude!
Feeb
* 13-Jun(#309)Archer wrote:> I just saw that Elder Scrolls 6, was announced 6 years ago. And it wont be coming
> out for probably another 6 years still. They said a couple years back they wouldn't
> even start actual development of it until they were completely done with Starfield.
> That means they still haven't started working on ES6 yet most likely. Or they started
> working on it partially this year. They've been working on the Shattered Space DLC
> for Starfield. So that could have been only part of the team. Either way. What a
> great idea announcing that in 2018 was.
If you measure that in future ES Skyrim re-releases it’s probably only 3.
TalonJedi87
13-Jun(#311)Archer wrote:> @TalonJedi87 - Happy Belated B-Day man!
>
Thanks dude!