General

"565th mass shooting in the US this year."

Absolutely fudging insane.

'MURICA!

On the plus side that's down so far. It was about 692 in 2021 and 648 for 2022.

Can't count your chickens yet, there are still two more months in the year 😔

Maybe it sounds a little callous but by and large these mass shootings don't affect me anymore.

We've had so many, and the people in power continue to wring their hands and send their "thoughts and prayers" to the victims, but no one actually makes substantive changes because they are more afraid of losing their seat than doing the right thing. Whether it's gun control or mental health care, it's easier to just spout platitudes in the moment and then ignore the problem and hope it goes away. Or that some other story will come along to distract us. And it works because we keep electing these people.

We have 600+ mass shootings every year because we deserve 600+ mass shootings every year for electing enablers.

No one deserves 600+ mass shootings every year. We deserve better.

Not sure who's we but I don't vote for gun nuts.

f you plant corn, you aren't going to grow plums.

America is reaping the seeds that have been sown over the past decades. Deserved? Maybe, maybe not - that's not a point i'm super attached to. But we are getting exactly what we asked for... which may be even worse.

Nothing will change, but thoughts and prayers will save the day!

This really has me considering getting my concealed carry license. I realize this is me basically saying "i'll solve gun violence with a gun" but I'm at a loss as to what else I can do to protect myself and the people I care about. The "random" nature of these events is horrifying.

Only way to deal with the gun epidemic is through legislation. I mean, yes you could arm yourself in case of emergency but that won't do any good long term.

Lunar wrote:

Agree completely

Legislation won't work because it would need to be on a constitutional level. We can barely get one party to fully agree on anything, much less a 2/3 majority in congress followed by 38 individual state legislatures.

The only way anything will actually change is if the culture changes. If owning a gun is seen as a sign of weakness, mental deficiency, and a small penis instead of being seen as a symbol of liberty, power, and a small penis.

It's been done before.

And how do you implement a 'cultural change'?

Lunar wrote:

The last meaningful constitutional change was in the early 1970s, giving 18 year olds the right to vote. And that was hard fought.

The 27th amendment in 1992 (still over 30 years ago) was about when laws involving pay changes to congress take effect. Which I'm pretty sure most people don't care that much about.


It's a long term process. Unfortunaly it mostly involves waiing for old people to die since they rarely change their minds.

I meant the assault rifle ban in the Clinton era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weap...


Sadly, this sounds just as useful as thoughts and prayers.

Which expired almost 20 years ago and has never been renewed. It also never made it to the Supreme Court so we don't know if it would have survived anyway. (Almost certainly not with the current court)

Those were also the pre-social media days, when reaching across the aisle and consensus building was considered a strength, rather than the hyperpartisanship we have now.

There is definitely appetite on the left for a renewal. In the last congress, when Dems had the trifecta, 2 senators kept them back from pausing the filibuster, which would have pressed through many of the liberal agendas.

Anyway, all is to say, if the chaos that's going on in the House right now is any indication, Republicans will almost certainly lose their narrow majority in the House(which was gerrymandered to begin with), and if the Dems can hang on to their hairline majority in the senate(a taller order), and obviously keep the White House(lest we want Orange again), we might see some changes. Better than thoughts and prayers I suppose.

bumsplikity wrote:

Same boat. Never owned, nor wanted to own, but feels like it's gonna be a neccessary evil at some point. The inability to protect my family because of the insanity that may be at my doorstep some day is beyond scary.

@MrBean I encourage you to educate and arm yourself for the protection of your family. Crime does happen and criminals almost certainly will be armed because it's insanely easy to get guns in this country. Here in the south, you can go to a flea market and buy a gun. That's it. That's the entire process. No checks, no waiting period, just walk in with cash and walk out with a shotgun.

I absolutely support gun reform on a legislative level, but I also recognize that gun violence is a very real problem today and arming myself seems like a step I can take in the short term.

If anyone decides to purchase a firearm, do so responsibly. Educate yourself, take your weapon to a range and practice with it, devise a safe way to store away from children, etc etc etc. Owning a gun is a huge responsibility so do not take it lightly.

bumsplikity wrote:


When you are averaging over 1 mass shooting a day is it really that random? odds are there will be another one tomorrow, the next day and well everyday until the calendar rolls over and we start anew. With all the tensions in the middle east December looks like it could be bad.

bumsplikity wrote:

If what you are saying is true about flea markets then that is absolutely abhorrent and disgusting. I am so sick of this country's obsessions with guns and this is coming from someone who grew up around them in a safe and respectable way.

We have been blessed with such a potentially beautiful existence and planet and yet we continuously prove we aren't worthy of it and just generally suck lol

@Finn that is precisely why I put random in quotes. They are random in the sense that they can happen at any time and place but unfortunately pretty commonplace in the US.

@Shane12m it is 100% true, I go to flea markets every single weekend. Some markets ban the sale of firearms as a general rule, but most of them have no such rules in place. It is worth noting that only long guns can be sold, handgun sales are illegal in this manner.

That being said, handgun sales still happen, they are just not openly displayed like the long guns. I could buy a handgun this weekend at the flea market since I'm a super regular and know the right people.

That's sadly true, sorry if the comment may have implied something else.

In Canada we have had 4 mass shootings this year. June/July then Sept and one just 3 days ago. All in Ontario. Now we have pretty tight gun control up here. I do believe it works, but I am not blind and know that it will not stop them all. Honestly I think it's a pretty cowardly tactic that the pro gun people use when there is a shooting you know the "where were your gun laws when this happened" type comments. Its much harder almost impossible to find out how many they have stopped.

I am not anti gun. I live in a pretty damn pro gun part of the country and even I have thought about getting a hand gun. Currently though I am unable to as there is a Freeze on all handgun sales, imports and transfers. Though I would imagine that changes when we get a change of government in the next year or so.

Any sort of rational gun legislation is filed under violation of 2nd amendment rights. No one is asking for banning of all arms sales, just that we put checks in place so dangerous people can't easily get their hands on weapons.

There's always the argument "if criminals want to get a gun, they'll get it by illegal means". Well yea, but let's not give them the leisure of legal means to kill people.

Lunar wrote:

Yes. Apparently there was no "Red Flag" law and this guy had shown that he probably should not have been allowed to be around guns since he threatened to shoot up another place before he did this.

I don’t want to rile anyone up but personally I see the mental health issue the bigger fish. I was a cop in the military and current gun owner. I also have my ccp and have taught both my kids fire arm safety and have taken them to the range for practical application of fire arm safety. I’m also a member of our local shooters association. I also live in a state that allows unrestricted person to person sales of all types of fire arms but does require a back ground check for retail sales.

The article in the op clearly states the shooter had mental issues. Not to make light but the old adage is guns don’t kill people. People kill people. We’d rather send money over seas then invest in those that need help at home. I don’t know what the answer is, slippery slope I suppose.

It's a multi-tiered problem. Mental health is part of it, but the country's obsession with guns is another part of it - potentially also partly linked to mental illness

I don't have an issue with legal recreational gun use. But when your Christmas card photo is your family and about 40 guns that tells me you're beyond recreation. At that point, it's idol worship and guns are your god.

Mental health, sure. Mental health is a global problem though, which means it's not isolated in the US. But the gun problem is uniquely US.

Lunar wrote:

I couldn't help myself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbObqQlOM4

loztdogs wrote:

Did we help those at home before the Ukraine war started? And we stopped since the war started?

This talking point doesn't make sense if you think about it. It's not as if aid to US citizens stopped since Ukraine was invaded, it was never there to begin with.

But let's sunset medicare and SS, why not.

Lunar wrote:

I agree with you. It was just a general thought. It could apply to Vets, homeless, mental health, drug addiction etc… we neglect our own.

I think we could do more for all those groups. Aid to Ukraine, and now Israel, it's more complicated. I think the majority of the population is for aid. But a noticeable minority is against.

We can't even handle basic medical care in the US.

As an example, of the top ten most expensive countries for a one month supply of insulin, you probably wouldn't be surprised to know that the US is number one.

But you might be surprised to find out that the cost in the US is higher than the combined total cost for countries 2 through 8.

Average cost of a one month supply of insulin (top ten most expensive countries):

United States — $98.70

Chile — $21.48
Mexico — $16.48
Japan — $14.40
Switzerland — $12.46
Canada — $12.00
Germany — $11.00
Korea — $10.30
(Sum total of # 2 Chile through #8 Korea = $98.12)

Luxembourg — $10.15
Italy — $10.03

Aren't we glad one of the major parties of our political system fought for and won for us, the price cap of $35 a month on insulin then?

Its a start but by no means cause for celebration.

$35 ia still far and away #1 in the world and more than two and half times the average of #2-#10.

And technically I believe the $35 cost cap only applies legally to Medicare, although the big manufacturers have agreed to do it for other insurance as well.

The max is $35, those you showed are average. Aren't you a glass half empty kind of guy...

Aid is needed.

We can do both... Issue is the programs need to be reviewed and overhauled and then you NEED to make sure once people are done programs that follow up support is there when needed. Tossing money will not aways fix things... I think programs around mental health are more after thoughts then actual programs. Tossing more money at the issue is funding a broken system. Come up with a new plan to fix the system and look at getting the appropriate funding. There is enough government waste that could be stopped to fund programs that we actually need, aid should not be the thing anyone puts on the chopping block.

My problem with the mental health issue is that, it's clearly being scapegoated as the real problem. Like, no the guns are still the problem. Mental Health with no guns, is just a crazy guy.

Lunar wrote:

After having my medication I've been using for years deemed no longer covered by my insurance this year and having to choose between the switch to a less effective medication or paying a much higher amount; and after an unrelated trip to the ER that wiped out a sizeable chunk of my savings even after the $300 copay (WHY IS A COPAY $300?), it would be reasonable to say that I am not the biggest cheerleader for the health care system in the USA. And I have "good" insurance.

I feel like even with insurance, most US households are one serious medical incident away from bankruptcy. Or at least begging family and friends for support with a gofundme.

Lunar wrote:

What would you propose? No guns? Limited guns? Crazy guy could steal a bus and drive through story time theater. Or strategically place pipe bombs along a marathon route. No guns involved in either scenario. Clearly if the individual (for one reason or another ) is ok with taking lives, they can find a means.

Not that your comment was directed at me but in my opinion, again getting to the root of mental illness is the bigger fish. Not scapegoating. I simply don’t see guns as the root cause.