General

whitefire wrote:

I was 20 when I saw III in theaters and that scene got me teary eyed, no lie.

III was the first one to get a PG-13 rating. The sequels, Solo, and Rogue One then also got PG-13. Take that for what it's worth.

III has the youngling scene, but also the rather nasty burning scene (after 3 more limbs are lopped off), the surgical scene with Vader getting his prosthetics and armor, and the childbirth and subsequent death scene. Any or all of that could be a problem depending on how young/immature your kids are.

VII and VIII were not really as bad, except for the rather prominent deaths towards the end of each.

Rogue One is much more of a war movie. Ground forces feature much more prominently, so we get a lot more face to face combat, as opposed to space combat. I won't say more since you mentioned you haven't seen it.

Scott wrote:

He's actually laughing in that scene. He couldn't get it right, so he held his hand over his mouth.

theJaw wrote:

Yeah I've never liked prequel first or machete order, I think IV-VI and then I-III is definitely the way to go. They didn't see the twist coming at all. They actually thought Vader was lying at first. When I told them he wasn't they both said "REALLY?!?"


Interesting. I hadn't thought about where to fit them in yet. That makes sense.

whitefire wrote:

lol, I was talking about the actual scene where Anakin kills the younglings.

Grenadier wrote:

I didn't even think about all of that other stuff at the end of III. My only concern was the youngling scene. Thanks for all the info!

@Scott your kids had the same reaction that lots of movie-goers did at the time of release then. There was apparently this big debate heading into Return of the Jedi over whether Darth Vader was lying or not. I can only imagine what the internet would have looked like with that cliffhanger lingering haha

In regards to the final Episode IX trailer: I loved it and it definitely got me pumped for the movie.

But what are the odds Abrams takes a swerve and doesn't have Kylo get the teased obligatory face-turn? It's no secret I dug The Last Jedi even if over time I realize there was plenty that could have been done better, but my favorite part was that it seemed to establish Kylo Ren as the main antagonist of the trilogy. I thought that it was a good "second chapter" on the road to him becoming the major other-worldly threat for Episode IX. To be honest, that just would have been nice and simple-enough character development. However the last couple shots from this new trailer definitely have me thinking Kylo will help Rey defeat Palpatine (and/or whoever else) in the end.

So is there any chance Abrams is just pulling a bait-and-switch with this trailer? He knows that after the different tone and direction of The Last Jedi, there will be a sector of fans expecting a "return to form" here, but I'd still like to see Kylo Ren end as more "bad" than "good", even if circumstances cause another team-up with Rey. By the looks of it, we're going to get that huge "Return of the Jedi" style movie here either way, but I think it'd be interesting to not have Kylo Ren pull a full-Anakin.

Will judge the events of the movie on their own merit when I see it though, if they do the face-turn and I enjoy the way it's pulled off then I have no reason to complain. I'm just interested to see where they take that character especially.

I don't see why he would pull a bait and switch. He had at least 18 months (minimum) to make adjustments to Skywalker. There's no way he and Disney wouldn't have switched things up after how poorly TLJ was received by fans. I think what we get we'll be even better than what we see.

Did anyone get tickets last night? Got some for the 6pm showing Friday, December 20th.

whitefire wrote:

How poorly TLJ was received by some fans. Still seems to me that the majority of fans and casual movie-goers (not all) were either fine with TLJ or simply indifferent all together. Just an extremely vocal sect of Star Wars fans who thought it was actually offensive and let the internet know, but the only audience aggregate website that reflects that hardcore disapproval was Rotten Tomatoes (which was openly and admittedly review-bombed by trolls). In my opinion, Lucasfilm really didn't need to do anything based off the gut reaction from some to TLJ, they could have had the stones to continue in a less obvious direction. I just figured Abrams (the guy himself) would opt to return the series to the cookie-cutter form. Which is what it seems he has done, for better or worse.

Anyhow, I'm not talking about adjusting anything during production. I just mean that this final trailer itself could be a bait-and-switch, as it overtly made it seem like Kylo Ren was primed for the ROTJ-Vader redemption arc. The "I do" bit and the bit where it seems Kylo and Rey are working together to destroy Vader's helmet(?) seemed to tease it. And then the bit where we see him walk toward something off-camera leading to the Palpatine(?)/Rey shot is super reminiscent of Vader walking off-camera to help Luke in ROTJ. So I'm wondering if the trailer itself is misleading us to expect something more "obviously Star Wars" and whether or not JJ Abrams would pull the trigger on keeping Kylo Ren the "bad guy". I highly doubt it, but I think it'd be a cool change up from the norm.

klusion wrote:

Packed theaters on opening weekend always geek me out a bit so I'll probably just wait until that following week to see it. I don't expect to have to buy tickets beforehand in that case. Usually the movie only sells out for the first few days anyhow.

Just gonna dread the internet for those few days. If this movie gets spoiled for me, I'll be bummed.

Many fans (less than 50# audience RT rating, 7.1 IMDB score, 4.4 user score on metacritic) took major issue with it. I liked it, but the vast, vast majority of fans thought it had issues and was a step down. I think they're taking the franchise more seriously now after TLJ and Solo. I think they got lazy and also rushed a bit in a lot of spots thinking that, due to the success of the first two films, they could just phone it in and put out half-assed films. They found out otherwise, and while there was still a lot of money made overall, a company like Disney looks at the big picture.

Also going back to my Kylo Ren hopes, I'm not gonna pretend like him redeeming himself and pulling a ROTJ-Vader would be the worst thing ever. As a Star Wars fan, I'm going to love seeing him "go good" in some triumphant, overtly Star Wars moment. I'd just also love the opposite. Neither outcome would detriment my opinion unless the writing and execution were poor.

I have no problem with Kylo Ren anyway way they go with him, as long as they tone down the brooding and whining. It was the worst thing about Anakin too.

whitefire wrote:

Again, the RT audience rating was openly review-bombed by troll accounts, even Metacritic got lambasted a bit. More than one group has claimed credit for it. TLJ got 7.1 on IMDB and CinemaScore, who polls audiences immediately after seeing the movie, gave it an "A". It's no coincidence that the websites with less opportunity to register fake accounts have TLJ ranked higher than the others.

It's fine if you had issues with it, even folks like me who enjoyed the movie have things they dislike about it, but the "vast, vast majority" didn't find it offensively bad in the way the RT user score was manipulated to reflect.


If anything, Solo's poor marketing and silly release date got Disney re-thinking plans for the side story films. TLJ did well enough financially that they would have no reason to "rethink" anything just because of a RT user score. Look at all their current live-action remakes. They get crap from both sides of the RT field, critics and audiences, but they make a crapload of money, so Disney keeps pumping them out. If one of their franchises is making money, a company like Disney doesn't care if audiences dislike the product. Billions of dollars are their "big picture", not pleasing each and every person who sees a movie.

whitefire wrote:

Anakin's angsty dialogue was so over-the-top and Lucas did a poor job directing the actor, resulting in what we got from that character. Kylo Ren definitely was a bit whiny in The Force Awakens, but I liked him a lot more in The Last Jedi. He started out unsure still, but after the Snoke deal, seemed a lot more confident. It wasn't until he saw Luke that he started ramping up that angst again, but even then I feel like it played more as unhinged anger as opposed to Attack of the Clones-style Anakin whining.

But yah, either way as far as "light side or dark side" would be fine if it's pulled off well. I'm just looking forward to seeing what actually happens.

@whitefire have you ever dabbled with fan edits? I’d be interested what you think of a TLJ edit I watched the other day. I think it’s a huge improvement to the original cut, removing lots of the cringey humor and reducing Canto Bight down to what’s necessary.

I'm a sucker for happy endings and redemption stories, so even though it's cliche and has already been done in Star Wars, I'd still like to see Kylo turn good in this film. Let Palpatine be the overall bad guy of all 3 trilogies, and Kylo and Rey can take him down together, for good.

For sure, if that happens it could still be a great ending. I thought I’d hate reviving an OT villain like Vader or Palpatine but using ol’ Sheev as the throughline connecting all 3 trilogies is pretty neat. And it works better as a reveal for this last chapter than it would have if they just had him hanging around in the last 2 movies.

theJaw wrote:

I'm not sure about the legality of fan edits.

whitefire wrote:

I'd say it's more of a morality issue, even though it is a legal one technically speaking. No film studio would bother going after a fan-editor for sending edits out to select folks. They could, but it wouldn't be worth their time or resources. Technically not legal, but fan edits have never impacted any film studio in any way that would call for legal action, so it's a little silly. Morally speaking, I've spent quite a bit of money on Star Wars and similar franchises, and will continue to do so, so I don't feel like I'm taking money out of anybody's pockets at this point. I don't see editing a movie and showing folks that edit for free, especially if those folks own a copy of the original, as being morally wrong. The law may technically frown upon it but certain laws can be pointless and in need of revision from time-to-time.

Either way, a better cut of TLJ exists and I'm happy I got to see it. It will probably be my go-to version. It addresses a lot of the problems I had with the OG cut:

-Poe's "mother" joke is gone. In this version it cuts from Hux listening to Poe call him a "tall, pasty guy" straight to Hux ordering the ship to open fire. No more "tooling" line, etc.
-A Finn/Poe deleted scene, where Finn tells Poe that he never considered himself a part of the Resistance, is reinstated. This scene is necessary as it establishes the starting point for Finn's arc, where he eventually learns to be more like Rose and less like DJ by finally choosing a "side". Without this scene, it's understandable how Finn's arc could be missed by people.
-Luke's lightsaber toss is scored differently. In the OG cut, the music swells to a stop, and then Luke tosses the saber back as a sight gag, played for laughs. In this edit, the swell comes as Luke is walking away, having already thrown the saber. It comes off as less of an "antic" and more of a defiant statement.
-I didn't mind the Leia-in-space bit, but they edit this version as the TIE fighters blowing out the side of the ship, and then the explosion's light takes the entire frame over as Leia feels the impact. It then cuts pretty artful to a shot of the ship's exterior and the battle. Next time we see Leia is when she's being carted off on the stretcher.
-Casino scene is trimmed to solely deal with the search for a codebreaker. No more slave kids or cat-horses.
-The editor frames the meeting scene between Finn/Rose and DJ with the former following the latter out of the cell, insinuating that they decide to join him right away (as opposed to after he and BB-8 save them from the chase scene). After Finn and Rose leave the cell, the next time we see them is already on-board the ship in hyperspeed.
-No more BB-8 in the walker.

There are some other fixes that I could have taken either way. The Rose/Finn "suicide save" at the end is gone. The one thing I really would have liked them to keep that they edited out was Finn vs. Phasma. It was fairly pointless but I still thought it added a bit to the movie.

Interesting comments from Adam Driver: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-movie-adam-driv...

In his opinion, Kylo Ren is the "son of two religious zealots", referring to Han Solo and Leia. He looks at Kylo Ren as having been committed to a religion and belief system above all else, including family. That's sort of true, considering Leia has sent him away to train with Luke and all. Obviously Leia wanted him to learn to harness his powers so he wouldn't be a threat to himself or anyone, but you can sort of see where Driver is coming from as far as Kylo Ren's POV goes. It makes his desire to "kill the past" a lot more poignant.

theJaw wrote:

Just remember it's going to be Christmas the following week, so the traffic won't be much better.

I got tickets for the Thursday 6PM and the Saturday night (Dolby Atmos) as well. A lot of people I know are not willing to go to opening nights, so I guess by myself.

Great piece written by Billie Lourd about her mother, Carrie Fisher, and her “stepmom” Princess Leia:
https://time.com/5720323/billie-lourd-princess-lei...

Gets me really excited to see her one last time in Episode IX.

DrizzDrizzDrizz wrote:

First "I'm sick of Star Wars" post of the season, fellas. Let's try to keep the major SW discussion to the ol' STAR WAR.

OK, so this occurred to me the next day....

BTW, are we using spoiler tags in here, or is the whole thread one big spoiler?

I vote no spoiler tags.

I, too, vote open spoilers.

@Grenadier there are lots of things that don't mesh between Episodes VII/VIII and IX. Like how both TFA and TLJ hint toward Kylo Ren as clearly having some sort of history with Rey before the events of TFA somehow, only to find out in Episode IX that he didn't know her origins and thus, had no history with her. Couple threads were lost from VII/VIII to IX unfortunately.

I guess in Starkiller Base's case, you can explain it away and make the argument that Palpatine's hidden fleet just wasn't ready yet. Maybe it got all finished up in the year between VIII and IX, and that's why Palpatine finally decided to transmit his warning of revenge across the galaxy. Perhaps Kylo Ren and the First Order created the Starkiller Base solely to diminish the strength of the Republic and any other enemies Palpatine had before he made his final huge attack.

Of course none of that was explained so you sort of just have to assume it... which seems to be an ongoing theme when trying to link certain threads to Episode IX.

ENIX wrote:

Replying here so no one gets upset about SW talk in the score thread. But I agree with this too.

In fact I'd like to see an editor take the whole trilogy and fan edit it, taking the opening to TROS and placing it into the end of TLJ, so that Palpatine's first appearance is the stinger for TLJ.

I feel like removing some dialogue and a shot or two from the start of TROS could possibly suggest Kylo Ren wasn't 100% in the dark about Palpatine being around. It'd maybe come off as Kylo Ren failing to turn Rey in TLJ, and then reporting directly to Palpatine since "Snoke" was now "dead".

Jaw, I think you're reading something into Kylo that was never really there. I've never seen any idea that he had knowledge of who she was in 7-8. It was more like he was fascinated by her or crushing on her. What 9 does is reframe that that they had a Force connection as the "dyad" they speak of in 9. That also makes the mental connection they shared in 8 make more sense.

The Starkiller Base thing still makes no sense. That was not a project to complete in a year while killing time waiting for the Star Destroyer fleet to be done. That seemed more like something they would have had to work on for the last couple of decades, much as the Death Star was a decades long project.

If it WAS a one year project, it was still a dumb idea. Why tip your hand with one WMD, when they had a thousand more that close to completion?

The Emperor's broadcast also makes no sense. He gave up the element of surprise, and did it before his superfleet was ready to go. Admittedly, he caused a bit of terror in the galaxy. But he also gave the good guys advance warning that they had to get their crap together, thus causing the final battle to start before the fleet was ready.

Grenadier wrote:

Both Episodes VII and VIII hint that Kylo Ren knew of Rey before TFA.

There's a scene in VII where Kylo Ren is told that "a girl" helped Finn and Poe escape. The direction gets very intense - Kylo whips around, pulls his lackey toward him, and forcefully asks "What girl!?" That line is the stinger for the scene as it transitions to the next immediately after, suggesting there's some importance to the moment. This 100% hints that Kylo Ren has knowledge of Rey, or at least a "girl" who could pose a threat to him. And this is the very first time the idea of Rey/a "girl" is brought up to Kylo Ren or anyone in the First Order... so he had no opportunity to become "fascinated" with her or to "crush" on her before reacting so oddly to the news of a girl aiding his enemies.

Some will try to explain that instance away by saying Snoke filled him in about Rey (considering Snoke was eventually revealed to be Palpatine), but an hour or so after that scene, Snoke tells Kylo Ren "If what you tell me about the girl is true, bring her to me." Snoke was clearly written in Episode VII as his own character, and clearly had no previous knowledge of Rey.

This idea is supported by the fact that Kylo Ren seemingly knows more about her in TLJ. Whenever they have their Force-link interactions, his confidence suggests he knows more about her than he's letting on. After the Throne Room battle, he straight up reveals her origins to her. This movie takes place immediately after TFA, so he had no time to research this information or get told about it. So then... how? He had to have had some knowledge of her before TFA/TLJ or else none of this makes sense to begin with. I think it's clear Johnson picked up on the same hint I picked up on from TFA and built off that, because the hint in TFA is pretty blatant.

Obviously those two movies were written before Episode IX. Palpatine tells Kylo Ren that she's "more" than he thinks... suggesting that Kylo Ren still at least somehow knew of Rey's origins before having met Palpatine. This creates a bit of a plot hole because he definitely knew her parents were "nobodies" without knowing the story of Palpatine's involvement.

There is easily enough to suggest that he was aware of Rey before the events of TFA and Episode IX drops that idea in favor of tying Rey to Palpatine.


I didn't say Starkiller Base (or the fleet) was made in just a year, I suggested that it's possible Palpatine's fleet was only completed in the year between VIII and IX, which would explain why they used the Starkiller Base as a headstart. The Starkiller Base easily could have been a decade-long project, and with the technology advances, it's not too large of a stretch. Palpatine/Snoke could have had Hux/the First Order begin construction of Starkiller Base well after the fleet began getting assembled for the reason I'm about to explain below.


The Starkiller Base project acting as a front would make enough sense. Palpatine could have created the First Order simultaneous to the "Final Order" so that they had a WMD capable of taking out all the planets of the Republic at once (which they did). That would ultimately strengthen Palpatine's chances of a complete takeover when he eventually decided to come out of hiding, and when his fleet was complete (which according to my theory would have been between Episodes VIII and IX). If they needed extra time to complete the fleet, it'd make sense to get a head start on removing some of Palpatine's obstacles before he unleashed his primary plan.

Nobody knew Palpatine was still alive - he and his fleet and all his weird followers were hidden from the rest of the galaxy. So unveiling a WMD wouldn't have "tipped" his hand regardless. Nobody knew he was still around and thus nobody would have been lead to believe he was behind it, or had other larger plans.

But again, that’s all just hypothetical if you want to read into it. It should have been presented in the movie so that IX made a bit more sense.


He didn't broadcast anything before his fleet was complete. He transmitted his message of revenge, and then Kylo Ren immediately sought him out. As soon as Kylo Ren finds him, he unveils his fleet. It's not like they just finished it the second Kylo Ren got there... they were clearly ready to go before he showed up. Remember, Palpatine was hidden unless you had one of the two Sith wayfinders, so he likely hedged his bets on Kylo Ren tracking him down before the Resistance could figure it out considering Kylo Ren knew where one of the wayfinders were as is apparent from the opening scene of TROS.

The fleet was airborn and ready before that final battle happened. They rise at the beginning of the movie and then attack the Resistance the second they show up. Palpatine and the fleet weren't caught off guard at all by any of this. It seemed his plan worked without a hitch until the final "battle" between he and Rey.

theJaw wrote:

Nope. You're reaching.


Nothing here hints he knew of her. Replace the line about "a girl" with any other noun. He's simply pissed off that someone, ANYONE, is helping Finn and Poe. Someone could have told him that it was a wookie helping, and he'd be ranting "What wookie?!?!?"

The fascination comes later when her realizes her abilities and their mental connection is made in TLJ.


Yeah, the seams between 7 and 9 are showing again.


Simple. He's either talking out of his ass, or he's using the Force to intuit it, perhaps with a boost from Snoke and/or Palpatine.


Or again....his info is limited because he's getting it from Force visions and half-truths from his master(s).



The level of engineering required just seems out of line. If you could build a bunch of ships, that's a much simpler task than hollowing out a planet, making it mobile, and figuring out how to suck a star dry, contain, that energy, and shoot it across hyperspace.


Except it did exactly that. If he keeps ALL of his forces in the Unknown Regions until the fleet was ready, instead of running around and starting trouble, then there is no reason for a Resistance to be formed. He'd have been better off sitting out there, building his fleet, and then blitzing everyone once he had 1000 Death Stars ready to go.


Yes, but trapped.


He broadcast before the fleet was out of the atmosphere. Basically, his fleet was trapped there, unable to leave atmosphere, and therefore vulnerable. Dumb move to pick a fight with the Resistance when he could have waited until that fleet was not sitting there ripe for destruction.

Nope not reaching. For the Kylo/Rey stuff, we’re going to have to disagree. Especially on the “what girl” line. And relying on the Force as a write off for why a character knows of somebody’s exact childhood details would be pretty lazy from any writer. Either way, I wouldn’t say I’m reaching as there were plenty of articles floating around the net after TFA released theorizing on if Kylo Ren knew her and how. It’s really not that far fetched.

Stuff about Episode IX was just theory anyhow, so that stuff is give or take. I was just trying to come up with reasons that might be able to explain the issues you pointed out away. Thought for about 5 minutes total about it so it’s no surprise if I was off there.

I can’t help but feel extremely unsatisfied with the climax of Ep 9. Especially when compared to the climax of Ep 6 and to a lesser extent Ep 3. I needed like another 10 minutes of light saber battles and crap or something.

They should have brought back Darth Maul for another 2v1fight with Rey and Kylo, would have been sweet.

Did they fix Chewies cgi face in RoS? It didn’t seem to bother me this time but was an eye sore in FA...maybe I just got used to it.

They did. It was fine in Solo too.

It never bothered me, but I know what you mean.

I thought 7 was fun and enjoyed it. hated 8, maybe because I had too high expectations for a good twist or something. 9 was good and I enjoyed much more than 8 but not as much as 7 Lol

Shane12m wrote:

I think this is the general consensus sir

@Grenadier (Merry Christmas firstly)

Secondly, watched Episode IX (again). During that last battle, the fleet isn't stuck in Exogal's atmosphere until after the command ship is shot down by Finn and Jannah. An alien pilot tells Poe to look at the command ship falling and then Poe says "Their fleet are stuck here!" in direct response to that happening. That's context. The fleet wasn't stuck in the atmosphere (until the very end), they just never left the atmosphere because Poe and the Resistance brought the fight to them before they left.

And to be honest, that could have easily been Palpatine's plan - to lure the Resistance into a trap. After all, the initial Resistance fleet that shows up is tiny compared to Palpatine's secret fleet, and that was the only Resistance that was known to still exist at that point (until the big save lead by Lando). It'd make complete strategic sense for Palpatine to lure what he probably assumed was the entire Resistance to a planet where there are zillions of Star Destroyers lined up with planet-killing weaponry. Once he wiped them out before even leaving Exogal, he would have had literally no opposition to take the entire galaxy. The odds seemed forever in Palpatine's favor until Lando and the cavalry arrived.

So I don't really feel like that aspect of his plan didn't make sense. What doesn't make sense about Palpatine's plan is the actual personal bit. He's 100% willing to let Rey strike him down so that he can more-or-less possess her with his Sithiness, but then once Ben shows up, his plan is suddenly to just take all the power for himself. He did seem caught off guard when their Force bond started rejuvenating him so it's possible he just re-assessed his plan at the last second, but you'd think he'd have known their Force bond was that powerful considering he had been pulling Kylo Ren's strings all throughout the trilogy, but alas. Also why the fudge does Rey and Ben's Force bond provide Palpatine with new clothes? I get that it looks like a mix of PT Palpatine and OT Palpatine... but a pretty silly way for it to happen.

Reed wrote:

His face wasn't CGI in The Last Jedi either (no idea about TFA). I guess lots of folks thought that but Johnson confirmed that it wasn't the case. Most people chalk it up to the fact that Joonas Suotamo's eyes are just real different than Peter Mayhew's.

I personally never thought it looked like CGI at all, or even heard that complaint made until your comment here.

Chewies face is def CGI in TFA and it looks like crap.

@Scott Moved this convo to the SW thread because I know people hate seeing it in the movie thread for whatever reason.

Gonna reply to our points of contention and, yes, in length. 100% not to argue or call you "wrong" or whatever, and I don't blame you for skimming or disregarding entirely. I just wanted to put this disclaimer here to assure anyone reading that this is just a discussion with differing opinions because that's what happens with SW these days. They're just movies after all, just ones that I can write way too much about.

I'll still always look back at SW as a whole - prequels, OT and sequels - and appreciate the overall narrative. Even if certain movies had things I thought were bad, the lore still interests me to no end. I'd love these stories presented in some sort of history book, similar to the history books put out for GOT/ASOIAF, as if they were legitimate accounts of historical events written by someone in-universe.

Also, and I promise this isn't being posted in conjuction with my wall of text as an attempt to sway anyone though the timing is admittedly bad, but I just realized earlier today that TROS has the lowest Cinemascore out of any Star Wars movie. This post includes more discussion about the reaction to TLJ, so feel free to pass on by if you're over that sort of thing.

Anyhow, these are the Cinemascores for the Star Wars movies:

The Phantom Menace: A-
Attack of the Clones: A-
Revenge of the Sith: A-
The Force Awakens: A
Rogue One: A
The Last Jedi: A
Solo: A-
The Rise of Skywalker: B+

Cinemascore is an aggregate website that polls folks directly after the movie as they're leaving the theater. Movie scores tend to skew high on that site as the polls happen on opening night, so it's the most "involved" fans being polled. AKA these scores can't be review-bombed like RT and are a direct reflection of some of the most passionate fans of any given movie. B+ isn't bad on paper but it's not necessarily a good "Cinemascore", especially when you take into account that the infamously bad Cats got a C+, which is obviously only a full letter grade below TROS. The only theatrical Star Wars to do worse than TROS was The Clone Wars animated movie that did a B-.

That's not the be-all end-all obviously and everyone's entitled to an opinion. In my own, TROS was fine and definitely not worse than any of the Prequel Trilogy if definitely a little disappointing. But it does say something interesting about the vehement internet backlash toward The Last Jedi when you see that real in-person audiences made up of hardcore Star Wars fans seemed to enjoy the saga more when it veered from the beaten path, or at least enjoyed it less when it decided to return to the beaten path.

The internet backlash to that movie really is just that - internet backlash, with the same vocal-but-toxic critics crapposting with the same tired "points" anytime the movie is brought up (Rian Johnson literally can't post a tweet without someone with "Fandom Menace" in their bio saying something foolish in response). While there are definitely some low lows in TLJ, I still firmly believe that the majority of casual movie-goers, and most Star Wars fans in general, enjoyed The Last Jedi more than you'd think if you were to just look on Twitter, Reddit, Rotten Tomatoes, or of course corner-of-the-net message boards with like 12 active users.

Anxiouz wrote:

Replying to you here to keep it outta the Movie thread, folks get mad when too much SW pops up in there haha

I feel you, but the story/character issues I have with TROS aren’t specific to Star Wars, it’s just basic storytelling. If an episodic series introduces a character and another installment/“episode” of said series is released, it just makes sense to integrate the characters who are already established, especially if you have plot details that would make sense to attribute to their character. Introducing characters who are capable of serving the same purpose in a plot as an established character is just poor writing in general, Star Wars or otherwise. Zorii Bliss has the exact same arc that Rose did in TLJ (relay info about a planet overrun by bad guys and swoop in at the end to make a save) just this time with a Power Rangers outfit, and Jannah has the exact same “kinship with Finn” that Rose did just now with Finn’s exact origin story.

I’m also a JJ Abrams fan but can admit his “mystery box” style of writing can get in the way of logic a lot and he’s hit-or-miss when it comes to fully delivering (Into Darkness for example). Still, TROS is the most disappointed I’ve been in one of his movies.

Of course that’s due to the script/writing in general, not the direction, so maybe Chris Terrio deserves more of my ire (dude did write Batman v Superman after all).

hahaa I like Solo too but I can sorta see that. In fact TROS sorta suffers from a lot of what I feel Solo does - it jumps from setting to setting too quickly and integrates sorta half-baked characters who exist solely in their little sections of movie. Both seem sorta like 2 or 3 movies condensed into one.

But ALSO like TROS, it's fudging wonderful to look at, the acting is real good and it's just a fun romp through the universe.

What I CAN'T see is how any of the prequel trilogy are out of the "B" rank. AotC should be Cats-level tbh.

@theJaw I read all of your reply. We can just agree to disagree I guess. You love TLJ and are mixed on TRoS, it's the other way around for me.

As for the CinemaScore, I feel like TRoS's score is more a reflection of the overall tension and negativity that has grown in the Star Wars community, and overall culture, starting with TLJ and then getting even worse with Solo. So many people seem to have already made up their minds that everything Star Wars is just terrible now, will never be good, yet they still watch it, just so they can pick it apart and go on and on about how bad it is. Not you, obviously, but a lot of people. Star Wars fans have transitioned from crapping all over the prequels to crapping all over the ST, it's annoying.

Yah I agree it’s very annoying for sure. I personally don’t feel like the opening night premieres that get polled would have been attended by lots of those naysayers so I still feel like the TROS Cinemascore is valid. I suppose it could be possible that some folks disenchanted by the previous 2 movies went opening night but I don’t feel like it’d be enough to really hinder the score to such a degree - I truly feel like a large enough sect of true SW fans (and not just counter-culture edgelords) were let down by TROS to a degree and I’m judging that solely from the reactions I’ve seen that share that sentiment without getting toxic like TLJ haters tend to. The backlash toward TROS and TLJ are like night and day, at this point TROS comes off as true disappointment from fans who were hopeful and TLJ comes off as try-hard vehement hatred from folks who already had their mind made up. Disliking these movies is one thing but neither were so bad that anyone should feel it necessary to die on that hill. Yet, they do.

Either way we can definitely agree that the SW hate is overblown and obnoxious. It’s made me personally reevaluate my own obnoxious take on the PT movies. While I still dislike them for the most part and feel fine criticizing them when the conversation calls for it, I regret being so hard on them for years solely because that just ruins the fun for folks who did like them. Thankfully I grew up a bit in that regard and can only hope the same happens for the toxic fandom out there.

Looks very neat, I’m looking forward to whatever comics come about from this.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xCat5fXRyyU

I couldn't watch the whole thing, but if my skipping was accurate, more animation? No thanks.

whitefire wrote:

It only mentioned books and comics and whatnot.

What’s the issue with animation? Resistance wasnt much to write home about but Clone Wars and Rebels have consistently been regarded high points of SW. I’d love another animated series.

I don't care for 95% of animation that is geared towards children or families. I can watch some Bakshi or Heavy Metal. Stuff like that. Even some of the old Rankin Bass is ok.

It's not to say that it's bad or I can't enjoy some animation with my kids, but I always prefer live action everything.

Yah that’s valid, plenty of episodes lean toward children. At least for Rebels. But a majority of Rebels ends up tackling mature themes, and just about all of Clone Wars is geared toward older teens/adults.

Resistance is 100% a kids show though.

Either way, other than SW, animation can be used to tell very adult-oriented stories - just depends on, well, the story. Animation doesn’t designate a children’s story by any means, especially these days.

anyone else disappointed High Republic wasn't about a bunch of stoners sharing their love of Star Wars?

Xena wrote:

Well apparently someone thinks putting Dinosaurs in this High Republic stuff is a good idea. If it's real Dinosaurs (T-Rex, etc) that's dumb. Beasts that just look like they could be Dinosaurs, that's fine as Star Wars has had things that look like them already.

I’m sure they’re referring to dinosaurs as they’d exist on an alien planet and not Earth’s dinosaurs.

And I do want a bunch of stoned Jedi.

But if it's Earth's dinosaurs, we got problems.

Yes indeed. SW Extended materials have historically done some real stupid things in the past and will almost certainly do some real stupid things in the future. Hoping Earth dinosaurs is not one of them.

Star Wars will always be in a galaxy far, far away. If they come to our galaxy, I call bullcrap.

whitefire wrote:

If they come to our Galaxy it'll only happen so they can put product placement in Star Wars, and if they do that I'll stop watching anything from there on out.

Again, I doubt that’ll happen. If you look at the High Republic stuff, it all revolves around the “ancient times” of the SW galaxy - the use of the word “dinosaurs” on one white board likely pertains to weirdo extinct alien monsters the same way their use of the word “vehicle” pertains to landspeeders or star destroyers.

Also, they have no reason to include product placement within the stories considering most of them are going to be told via comics, and comics have included actual print ads within their pages for decades.

ads, another reason I don't buy Marvel/DC Single issue comics

Ads can obviously be annoying but the argument can be made that there would be far less comics in general without ads - physical print is a dying business so ads are the only reason physical copies with high print runs still get produced. Even Image and other labels run ads in their books if the print run is larger than 5,000 issues or so (although they at least don’t place them in the middle of books like Marvel/DC).

Marvel and DC obviously have a ton of money but if they printed large runs of comics without ads they likely wouldn’t see a return that makes printing physically worth it. I’ll put up with an ad I can ignore to ensure physical copies continue to exist. I’d hate to never smell a fresh book again haha

I buy mostly Image Comics single issues. No ads until the end, if there are ads at all. Even then it's usually advertising other comics they have.

Yah most of their issues run around 5,000 copies for a 1st print, so there’s no huge need to put ads in there. I would rather the ads stick to the back of the books from other labels but like I said, I have no issue ignoring them to ensure some of the books I’ve loved since I was a kid keep getting printed physically.

No ads in my one single issue of a Dark Horse comic either. It's ads in the middle that annoy me.

Yah no ads would be ideal, just wouldn’t be feasible for DC/Marvel to print huge runs of their popular books without them unfortunately.

So for fellow dweebs who were left wondering about this, apparently the Episode IX novel confirms that the Palpatine in The Rise of Skywalker was a clone of the Palpatine we knew from Episodes I-VI, and was only so degraded due to the cloned vessel being unable to withstand the OG Palpatine’s immense power.

I suppose that’s a better explanation than no explanation at all, or the common assumption that it was the tattered body from the first 6 movies having somehow survived Return of the Jedi. Though I do think that this was just the novel’s writer filling in blanks that were never considered when Abrams and Terrio were writing the movie itself, and that the film’s writers truly intended it to be the body from RotJ having survived the Second Death Star’s destruction. Otherwise it would have been so easy to include a simple line of (necessary) dialogue during Kylo Ren and Palpatine’s initial interaction to establish that it was a clone we were seeing as opposed to all the dialogue that seemed to insinuate it was the same Palpatine we had always seen. All we got was Dominic Monaghan’s character vaguely mentioning “clone technology” or something similar among a list of other possibilities for Palpatine’s return.

Still, I’m glad somebody offered a now-canon reason for why Palpatine was still around without it being a total cop-out. I mean cloning is still pretty “eh” anytime it’s used, especially when bringing back a dead character, but at least there is already a precedence in SW that cloning has always been a “thing” that happens from time to time. And I do think the novel’s way of establishing this info (by having Kylo Ren remember his teachings of the Clone Wars from when he was kid and recognize the equipment Palpatine was hooked up to as being prominent during that era) was pretty witty.

Reys father was a failed Palpatine clone. They need to actually have a plan with whatever they do next and not just make it up as they go along.

Kommie wrote:

As much as I feel like they're just making crap up as they go along, I looked further into it and apparently most of these plot points from the novel (like Palpatine being a clone in TROS) were indeed in the script but cut from the movie.

Either they're just saying that to save face, which I'd be inclined to believe at this point after the backlash toward TROS, or they should have left this crap in the actual movie so that the MOVIE made sense and not the novel. Either way you shake a stick at it, the movie dropped the ball on a lot of this.

It does seem like leadership is getting their crap together and plotting things out well in advance, which is why the movies were put on hold for a bit and the Obi-Wan series was delayed, so hopefully moving forward everything is a bit more consistent. I just really wish they took that approach for the sequel trilogy because, while I enjoyed VII and loved VIII, IX was a pretty brutal disappointment in wrapping the entire saga together.

You'll come around some day and realize IX is amazing

haha that's like me telling you the same thing about VIII. Very unlikely that I'll ever enjoy it more than I already do. Half-baked fetch quest plot with macguffins that don't make sense on a basic level, and decently unsatisfying endings for all the characters. It'll be tough for me to come around to liking it as more than just a gorgeous spectacle to look at unfort.

Yes...let the negativity flow through you.

Going back to the "Rey's dadio is a failed clone" deal, I haven't read the novel but I am really wondering how exactly that would even make in-universe sense. If we're to believe Palpatine in TROS is a clone that's being physically destroyed from the inside out by Palpatine's power, wtf happened with Rey's dad to just give him a normal personality and no physical ailments? 1) he doesn't LOOK like Palpatine, so the whole "clone" thing is sorta hard to slap on him to begin with considering how clones have historically been presented in SW, but also 2) I figured, going by what TROS shows us, that Palpatine clones are only "activated" when he needs a new vessel.

So how the frig did Rey's dad, a "failed Palpatine clone", fend off Palpatine's spirit... or power.... or essence.... or whatever actually gets passed from body-to-body and just end up a regular dude?

ABRAAAMSSS!!!

Failed Palpatine clone makes no sense. If he were some kind of clone, that makes it closer to him just being her father, not grandfather?

The clone "failed" in the sense that it was Force-insensitive. Therefore, no burning out.

Remember, the clone troopers were clones too. Presumably without Palpatine possessing the body, it was able to be educated the way the clone troopers were, and develop its own identity and have a life of its own.

Maybe, but the clone troopers all looked like Jango Fett. The dude in TROS looked a literal nothing like Palpatine. Just really doesn’t work.

Failed Palpatine clone works a million times better than "I survived the explosion of a 120km diameter superweapon and the vacuum of space".

Still not a good movie. Just eye candy really. Some good meme potential.

razeak wrote:

I agree for sure. If Palpatine HAD to come back, the failed clone explanation makes the most sense. The movie still failed in the aspect that it didn’t explain it whatsoever within the movie itself but oh well.

I’d have liked if Palpatine looked more like a mix of his prequel version, but just super ancient and creepy, similar to (but not exactly) his OT appearance. That way they could just claim he was the original and the PT/OT version was the clone. But because we saw Palpatine before he got all disfigured, that wouldn’t have worked.

Though that just presents the question as to why the TROS clone has facial disfigurement that looks way more like the OT version and not like PT Palpatine considering it’s a clone and all, but I suppose we can just assume that Palpatine’s power just happened to disfigure it in a similar way to the original.

I'm also of the opinion people that want rapey, murderous Ben Swolo and Rey to hook up are nuts.

razeak wrote:

Yep. Space nazi who tortured main characters, lead platoons of stormtroopers to slaughter innocent villages, literally killed Han Solo AND, like you said, manipulated Rey throughout the entire trilogy... tying his redemption into a forced romance was pretty cringey and sorta diminished Rey to an extent for apparently wanting that outcome.

Darth Vader’s redemption worked because it was in service to Luke’s story arc - against all odds, Luke got Vader to “see the light” which lead to him finally putting a stop to Palpatine and the Empire. That didn’t absolve Vader of all his heinous crimes, it just allowed Luke to grow into his role as a Jedi while getting to finally meet the man Anakin was before he was an awful monster. It was a redemption for Luke and Luke alone, it didn’t make Vader an all-around hero.

They missed the point of Vader’s redemption by shoehorning Kylo Ren’s redemption into Rey’s survival and making it this weird heroic turn. Making him a sudden love interest just made it more difficult to be into. Their relationship wasn’t the same as Luke/Vader and the redemption wasn’t earned and didn’t make as much sense.

It just made Rey look like an absolute moron. Can't respect the character. She might as well as took a hit off a crack pipe. It would have made as much sense.

Entering her mind with the force was definitely a rape tone. It's a level of violation that goes well beyond real world manipulation also.

Why is it so crazy for Palpatine to have survived that fall? Darth Maul survived a similar fall, after being sliced in half, no less. Luke also survived a similar fall.

I personally think Palpatine surviving would be harder to believe because as soon as Palpatine hits the bottom, a giant blue explosion takes over the shaft insinuating he himself exploded, and then of course the Death Star where the shaft is situated explodes after Lando hits the core and all.

Without all the explosions, I’d have been fine accepting that he just fell out the bottom of the Death Star similar to how Luke dropped out of Cloud City and then Force-pulled himself Leia-style to Exogal (or a closer spot before going to Exogal). But, explosions.

Either way, they ended up taking a different route anyhow so it’s neither here nor there. Clone works enough, if only just enough.

It appeared Palpatine fell into the reactor itself, which apparently vaporized him, and released all of his dark side energy. I like powerful Jedi/Sith, but not Super Saiyans. Flying through the vacuum for more than a minute or two would be a huge task even for him. Darth Maul's survival can be forgiven easier because he has a different biology, his wounds were cauterized, and we can assume he gained some level of control and used the Force to slow himself enough to survive the impact. I mean, it's a stretch but not survive 2 explosions stretch.

The Expanded Universe dealt with a cloned Palpatine as well, in the Dark Empire comics. So after going out of their way to crap-can the E.U. stories, they ended up doing a similar story, and expected the audience to "get" that cloning was involved. It's like they assumed everyone had read those comics and would understand, even though the number of people who read those has to be minuscule compared to the number of people who see the movies.

Yah, I mean they had to do away with the EU because so much of that stuff was pretty rough and didn’t have perfect continuity itself, so I enjoy that they at least cherry picked certain aspects for the new continuity - but there needs to be some semblance of reason plot-to-plot. Had they actually relayed the information that the novel establishes that Kylo Ren recognized the equipment surrounding Palpatine as Clone War-era cloning equipment, that would have literally been all that was needed. But like I said, I think that was the novel’s writer filling in blanks more than anything.

I never thought I’d prefer the EU’s version of “clone Palpatine” (with a younger body and whatnot) over anything because I remember thinking it was real silly, but I’d probably have taken that route as opposed to what they tried in TROS.

I updated my rankings for the SW movies but decided I’m not going to reopen that thread as it seems to draw a bit of toxicity from time to time. Instead I’ll just post it here so it can exist within and eventually be drowned out by general SW conversation.

My rankings:

I feel like Episode VI and Episode VII could swap spots depending on my mood any given day, maybe Episode IX and Solo too, but otherwise I’m decently firm with the rest.

5 - fills in some blanks, best swerve of all time, great everything. cool action, epic lightsaber battle, world building, leaves you dying to see what happens next. Yoda is extremely likeable. Chewbacca.
4 - fun, adventure, relatable characters, great editing, great pacing, great score, great everything.Chewbacca.
6 - not counting the SE version. love every minute, great finish to the story. I can't whip a chimpanzee, probably can't whip an Ewok either lol. love em. Chewbacca.
7 - good start to a new galaxy, unfortunately rehashes ANH with a stupidly overpowered superweapon. setup interesting mysteries to unravel. Chewbacca.
rogue - silly pacing in 1st act. bounces around. takes off in 2nd act and good story and acting. excellent action sequences. no chewbacca
3 - good from start to finish, hampered by some wooden acting and poor opening once Obi-Wan and Anakin board the ship, great duels, dumb padme death. Chewbacca.
solo - good all around. main actor was weakest part, but did okay. Angry feminist caricature droid was great. good story overall, but answered questions that didn't need answered. (pistol, name)
8 - great cinematography, boring space chase. cool expansion of the Force. poor follow up to prior film. pointless side quest. Chewbacca.
1 - podrace is fun, Darth maul. Boring otherwise. no chewbacca
9 - very fun, very nonsensical. very pretty. poor follow up to prior film. no character growth. too much happening. Chewbacca.
2 - the chase at the beginning is fun, the last sequences is great. The in between is boooooooooring. no chewbacca

Just my feels in the moment. This list fluctuates slightly each day.

Did we ever discuss Ewoks vs Stormtroopers here? Need something to fight about haha

theJaw wrote:

Yup, one line of dialogue. Done.


A lot of the time, the "extras" the novelization adds in are actually taken from earlier drafts of the script, or deleted scenes. So chances are that line was in there at some point.

Yah I mentioned that earlier, but it‘s such an easy fix to help make your movie make sense that it seems ridiculous they’d make the conscious decision to remove it. Oh welp.

I’m bummed that no deleted scenes are being released with this upcoming digital/blu ray release. I really want to see a fan edit of TROS but I feel like there was lots left on the cutting room floor that could help flesh an edit like that out. I’m sure there will be some secondary release with a few more extras. But until then I’m looking forward to seeing what an editor can do with the footage available.

I can't ever decide on my ranking. The only thing I'm sure of is my top 2. Beyond that, IDK. I used to enjoy the prequels more, and defended them a lot, but after my last re-watch, they've dropped considerably. I mean, AotC has been my least favorite for a while, but I enjoyed TPM and RotS was even one of my favorites, but not nearly as much anymore. Anakin is just so annoying, in all 3 of them. I need to give ANH another chance soon, but the last time I watched it, it really bored me, that's why it's so low.

1) Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker
2) Episode VII: The Force Awakens
3) Rogue One: A Star Wars Story
4) Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
5) Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
6) Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
7) Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
8) Solo: A Star Wars Story
9) Episode IV: A New Hope
10)Episode I: The Phantom Menace
11) Episode II: Attack of the Clones

I think I'm pretty happy with that order right now. 1 and 2 are definitely set, and I'd say 7-12 are mostly set except maybe I could move ANH up a bit. 3-6 could change, idk.

razeak wrote:

I feel like Ewoks had the numbers, knew the terrain and had more of a reason to fight than the stormtroopers. The troopers were pretty much there to guard the shield generator and are infamously awful at combat to begin with haha

And tbh that one shot of the Ewok dying and his buddy trying to get him to move was harrowing enough damnit!

Plus they had the assistance of Rebel commandos.

Watching Solo. It really is a tale of two movies. The first half with all the set up on Corellia up to the first mission with Beckett’s crew that goes wrong is a slog to get through, but once Han and Beckett meet up with Dryden Vos and find Lando, the movie becomes very entertaining. Still not huge into all then shoehorned origins for Han’s signature stuff (name, gun, etc) but once the story really kicks in, the movie is a fun time if nowhere near perfect (looking at you, weird Halloween costume-looking Wookies).

I think it goes from crapty to mediocre.

It’s definitely not great but I wouldn’t consider it crapty, just underwhelming. Still a fun watch from time to time.

theJaw wrote:

I was the opposite when I finally watched this recently. I was really into it in the beginning, but around the halfway point I stopped enjoying it as much.

Saw an interesting thing on Reddit, a lot of Star Wars "fans" hate about 60-70% of the movies. Are they really fans then?

Kommie wrote:

Well, they're fans of the original trilogy. I think you can still be a fan even if you dislike sequels.

Then again, you make a good point because I like Star Trek 1 and 2 (new ones) but don't consider myself a Star Trek fan.

A lot of those "fans" will pick on things in the OT too, if you get them going on it. I think we've got a group out there who doesn't really understand what "fan" means. To them, it means "follow something so I can criticize and troll it." That's not being a fan, it's being an butt-hole.

I don't follow Tarantino movies or any of the mystery novelists my wife reads. But I don't then follow every thing about them just so I can have something to dog about on the internet.

Solo is a boring ass movie. Rogue One feels like a fun family adventure by comparison.

Kommie wrote:

Probably, cause Sonic fans probably only like 1/3rd of the games.

There's another issue here too. When SW started there were fewer films, so the requirement for being a fan was lower. When they keep adding stuff it's more work for fans not only to keep up but there's even a bit of pressure to like every new thing in order to keep being a fan.

I think you can still consider yourself a fan even if you’re critical of aspects of the franchise. I’m a pro wrestling fan but will dump on things that deserve it. Just as long as you don’t get carried away and make your entire personality within the fandom to be a snarky doucher about the things you dislike and instead focus on what you enjoy, otherwise you’re not even trying to enjoy yourself or your time with the franchise and are instead just trying to flex your own opinion.

I'm not saying you can't be critical. I'm saying if ALL you do is be critical, and go out of your way to be a douche about it, then you're not really a fan. You're just a hater who gets his jollies messing with people who do like it.

Yah that’s essentially what I’m saying too for sure

I had a "friend" ruin TROS for people, posted spoilers couple days before release. If you're that miserable that you have to ruin it for everyone else you got some fudgeed priorities. Luckily for me I logged out of all social media for awhile till I saw it.

My girlfriend’s brother disliked TFA enough that he solely watches snarky YT spoiler videos each time a movie comes out just to scoff at them. I couldn’t imagine. You’re that petty that you’ll refuse to watch a movie but still watch a blatantly negatively-slanted spoiler video from someone who already didn’t like the movie. That’s literally not even allowing the possibility of enjoyment, that’s just learning plot beats to make fun of with the other douchers who need something to crap on to make their taste in film seem superior.

I hate a certain director but even I wouldn't watch something like that just to crap on it. Why even watch anything related to it if you probably hate it?

Kommie wrote:

Which one?

There are times when I'm tempted to rewatch "Gummo" because I absolutely detest that movie, and making myself watch it is like some cruel torture to myself. When I'm really depressed and really hating on myself, I'll be like "I hate you so bad I'm going to make you watch Gummo again"

Gummo is a movie I've intended watching at some point but never did.

Don't. Your life will be that much better.

The first time I saw that I was in college and I was going over to a girl's house that I was crushing on (this was before I met my wife).

She fudging put this movie on and laughed the whole fudging time, and I had zero crush on her afterwards.

If that is what she intended, then well played. If not, I dodged a bullet.

I am aware of some of the things in that movie. Maybe you should look her up, she's probably in jail at this point. I'd of ran too.

From what I've been told, she gained a massive amount of weight, became lesbian for a period of time, went straight, then got pregnant and had a kid.

bullet dodged.

https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-season-2-ahsoka...

Rosario Dawson is officially live action Ahsoka Tano in The Mandalorian Season 2. Great casting, really looking forward to this.

I want to watch Clone Wars TV series, but it's PT era and there's a lot of episodes.

Kommie wrote:

I honestly can’t really get into it. I’ve tried a couple times. What I’ve seen is better than the PT for sure, and Ahsoka does rule, but I’m with you. A fan editor made movies out of the seasons, so I’ve watched those.

But I love Rebels, and the crap Ahsoka does in that show is very badass. Real fun character, and Rosario Dawson seems like she’d be perfect for a live action take.

This Youtube channel I have been following recently posted a new video breaking down the entire Colin Trevorrow Episode IX "Duel of the Fates" script and put the breakdown to neat animations. Probably the closest we'll get to actually seeing what was being planned.

I read the script and really enjoyed it, so was happy to see someone do something like this. Obviously doesn’t get into every fine detail but if you wanted to know the general story but don’t feel like reading the entire script, this works nice. He obviously makes it a little comedic and really does fast forward through a lot of the bits that I loved from the script, but whatev.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itdfe5yQ0Hg

I started a New Journey + on Jedi Fallen Order today. I missed playing this game tbh. It was only last year but I have fond memories of playing this. Restarting it has brought me right back to when I was first experiencing the game. It's not perfect by any means (there are plenty of changes I'd like to see implemented in a sequel), and some areas/story beats are definite slogs to get through (having to go to Ilum to make another lightsaber towards the end comes to mind), but I still really love the game.

Anyhow just wanted to reopen this thread considering Mandalorian is back and it's real easy for me to clog up the Movie Review thread with SW talk.

Plop some random discussion topics in here, wouldn't mind some nice SW conversation.

Is there any new info on new movies or have "fans" ruined the movies?

I'm hoping for more SW movies. I loved the new trilogy, and The Mandolorian has been great.

I definitely want to play Jedl Fallen Order soon.

Kommie wrote:

I'm sure there will be a new trilogy eventually. I imagine they'll whip a bunch of money toward at least Daisy Ridley and have Rey's adventure continue, though I feel like it's unlikely Oscar Isaac or John Boyega would come back. Maybe Isaac but Boyega is definitely over SW. I'd be interested to see a new adventure with Rey where they wouldn't need to incorporate the older legacy characters as long as they didn't just rehash the same arc as the past 3 trilogies. Wishful thinking but it'd be neat.

To be honest though, after the first episode of Mandalorian Season 2, I almost feel like ongoing TV is where Star Wars should exist primarily. Obv have my issues with the stop-and-go pace of the story, but if they did an epic Jedi-centric story that focused on lore, they could put out some quality drama TV. They have no issue making it look visually pleasing, so I'm almost to the point where I don't need more movies if they start pumping out consistently good stories on the TV level.

Scott wrote:

You definitely should, surprised you haven't yet. It's a real fun time, if a bit short.

They keep announcing new movies that are in development, with new writers and new casts, and then they get cancelled when the producers/writers move on to new projects. So nothing is officially in the pipeline right now, at least not publicly.

There actually are movies in development, the next is slated for 2023 and is going to be directed by Taika Waititi. Very much looking forward to seeing what Taika can do with a full Star Wars movie. I haven’t disliked a single thing I’ve seen from him and after the Mandalorian Season 1 finale I have faith he’s got good stuff up his sleeve.

Also Rian Johnson’s planned trilogy (heavily rumored to take place during the equivalent of the KOTOR era) hasn’t been officially cancelled and is apparently still moving forward. Whether or not that actually happens remains to be seen but there hasn’t been any news contradictory to it still happening. Big fan of Johnson so I’ll be seeing those whenever they drop (if they drop at all).

Kevin Feige and JD Dillard were also brought in to develop movies, but little to no details on those are out yet.

All this info comes from this page, posted like 2 weeks ago: https://www.gamesradar.com/upcoming-star-wars-movi...

Honestly that roster of filmmakers has my faith in the future of Star Wars movies high. Looking forward to seeing what comes next.

I can't seem to accept the new trilogy. Episode 7 is essentially a parody of Episode 4. Droid lands on a desert planet carrying essential info that would collapse the bad guys, a father figure gets killed, Han Solo gets chased by gangsters who he owes a debt to, planet-destroying superweapon gets blown up by X-wings...the list goes on. Also what's with Kylo stealing Bane's voice in the Nolan Batman trilogy? And how does a conditioned stormtrooper suddenly "forget" his training and become an ally to the resistance??

At this point I just view them as Sci Fantasy entertainment. Cause that's what it is. Nothing about these movies is realistic.

Nothing about ANY movie is realistic! Like in Predator, the team can apparently spend 5 minutes mowing down the trees without running out of ammo. Well...granted, the M134 chaingun had a seemingly bottomless magazine, but for the remaining weapons...

ft763 wrote:

TFA is pretty much a modern re-telling of A New Hope. Far from the first time that's happened though. Return of the Jedi is literally A New Hope 2 just with more one-on-one Luke/Vader stuff (cool) & random Ewok/Endor stuff (cool LOOKING but hollow narrative-wise). Otherwise the plot and goal is more-or-less the exact same... blow up a Death Star. Even Episode 1 brought the whole "blow up a circular space station to save the day" trope back when Anakin destroys the droid ship.

I thought TFA did a great job introducing the series to a younger audience while still giving us oldies the nostalgia drip we were looking for. I can give that movie a pass when it comes to presenting nostalgia as the main course... it's later in the series that it becomes a problem. The Last Jedi introduced a brand new, fresh story that toxic SW fans did nothing but complain about... so then we got The Rise of Skywalker which was just a retcon of the previous two movies (TFA and TLJ) in order shoehorn the tried and true SW cliches and recurring plot beats into the story. THAT movie is the one that almost feels like a parody in spots, with Finn's use of the Force and the force redemption. But whatev.

(I want to make it clear that not everyone who disliked TLJ is toxic, just that there was a sincerely toxic outcry after that movie released that was just fanboy whining. Anyone is free to dislike TLJ, but acting like anyone destroyed your childhood is garbage.)



I honestly hear no similarities. Tom Hardy speaks in a deliberately higher pitch than his normal register and with a completely different accent whereas Adam Driver makes a focused decision to just speak with his normal accent but in a low, almost monotone voice.


I imagine you mean Finn... I don't think he "forgot" any training. In fact his knowledge of the First Order's inner-workings and Starkiller Base is a primary plot point in the second act of The Force Awakens. But even besides that, he also has combat training which we see when he fights that Stormtrooper outside of Maz's castle and via his proficiency with a blaster.

It's also established that the village attack at the beginning of TFA is the first time Finn had been deployed out into the field, with most of his time being spent doing janitorial work. Pair that along with the established information that Finn was stolen as a child and thrown into life as a Stormtrooper, it's really not that difficult to imagine him getting cold feet when it comes to slaughtering an innocent village and rebelling. And for as referential as TFA is to ANH, a Stormtrooper flipping sides was an actually fresh idea brought to the movies and one that I was happy to see. Unfortunately Finn is sort of underappreciated in the trilogy. TLJ did good to further his development from a former-deserter to a team-player (even if folks didn't like the side quest he went on), but he was pretty much a non-character in TROS.

Ah, thanks for explaining. When I said that Kylo stole Bane's voice, I actually thought they were pretty damn similar. Watch these videos to see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyDR9CbqIAI (Bane's voice in SW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5M6z89WoCo (Ren's voice in Batman)

I still don't hear the similarity to be honest with you. In fact swapping their voices for those scenes sort of just makes me realize how different they are. Again, Bane talks in a high pitch with an accent whereas Kylo talks in a low register with no accent. But I dunno, maybe I'm just not hearing something other folks find obvious.

Well to each his own. I guess some people are more 'sensitive' in their ears while I don't happen to have that sort of sixth sense.

As a musician, I guess that could be the case. I just personally never noticed a similarity but perfectly possible other folks did.

Nothing about Star Wars is really that original, even the OT. So much was taken from Dune, as well as using the basic Hero's Journey story. So the fact that you find similarities in other movies isn't that shocking.

theJaw wrote:

Not to be arrogant, but I'm also naturally into music. I guess if I listened to something I could play it. But give me the sheet, and I would struggle to pull it off on a piano (my bass clef sucks)

Kommie wrote:

Kurosawa's fingerprints are also all over Star Wars. I just don't feel like the voice thing is relevant to the whole "SW borrowed from other movies" thing... it's just a case of voices that some folks apparently think sound similar and others don't. That's more of an acting decision than a "lift this idea from another movie" decision.

Unless you mean the similarities I noted among the SW movies themselves. In that case you can't really lean on the "originality" explanation too hard. It's one thing to lift an idea from another movie, it's a different thing to lift the same scenario from your own movie 4 times haha

Lone Wolf and Cub is also a huge influence for The Mandalorian. But Dune has so much influence on Star Wars Frank Herbert almost sued Lucas over it but didn't. It doesn't mean Star Wars is inherently bad though. I could list the Dune similarities if you want me to but I'm on mobile right now.

Oh yah I know SW lifted from Dune hardcore. We even saw that in the first episode of Mandalorian Season 2. That Krayt Dragon was 100% a Dune worm.

There were a lot of things about that episode that reminded me of Dune since I had just re read it.

Krayt Dragons apparently first appear in KOTOR.

Kommie wrote:

Yeah in a mission that sees you blow the krayt dragon up using a Bantha as bait so that you can get its pearl to upgrade your lightsaber.

All that happened in the episode except for the pearl upgrading any lightsaber haha

A Krayt Dragon first appeared in Episode IV, sort of. There is what looks like a dinosaur skeleton when the droids are wandering in the Tattooine desert. That was supposedly a Krayt Dragon, or was retroactively declared one anyway.

Wookiepedia mentions the first "live" one was in Galactic Battlegrounds, in 2001. KOTOR was 2003. There were other game and novel appearances too.

Replying to this here just to keep it out of the review thread because I always ramble for too long.

Kommie wrote:

The thing that bothers me most (or at least to the highest extent that a sci fi movie series possibly can) is that letting Abrams make what is essentially his ideal Episodes VIII & IX into The Rise of Skywalker didn't even win any of the toxic fans back and never would have even if it was an astoundingly great movie. Those types of people were never going to be won back at that point. No one who spent 2 (or 4) years complaining about the SW sequels or Disney were going to see Episode IX's hodgepodge of SW tropes and be won over. So at that point Disney/Lucasfilm ultimately just ended up alienating the people who actually enjoyed the direction they were taking with TFA and TLJ in order to cater to the toxic fandom that weren't going to sing their praises regardless.

Of course you'll have the occasional fan who wasn't thrilled about TLJ and still ended up enjoying TROS, but those people generally never got too toxic about TLJ in the first place and opted to just dislike it the way a normal human being dislikes something. But for the majority of the loudest online TLJ-detractors, they were already apprehensive after TFA for various reasons (Rey, Disney, etc) and then TLJ just moved even further away from the beaten SW path (with a story that questioned morality instead of sticking to "good vs. bad", among other reasons). That ended up resulting in those detractors getting actually-toxic about it to the point that there are YouTubers spending a 20+ minute video whining about how the throne room battle features choreography and doesn't look like a real fight (aka every major blockbuster action movie) solely because it's a SW movie.

Anyhow it's become clear that the majority of actual SW fans don't dislike TLJ nearly as much as the most toxic of us wanted the world to believe at the time of its release. It's only the pettiest of SW fandom who are still harping on TLJ or tweeting garbage to Rian Johnson and the cast, whereas most people who disliked it just don't talk about it much and those of us who do like it talk about it positively. On the other hand, it seems that TROS is the movie that most of the fandom (folks who enjoyed TLJ, folks who disliked TLJ & even toxic fans alike) seem to generally hold in a more negative light although there are definitely a ton of folks who love it. Which is cool, again I liked it more than the prequels, it's just interesting to look at how Disney/Lucasfilm handled the situation and how the general mood about certain movies has shifted.

I generally like to pretend the prequels don't exist. Haven't seen them since they were released theatrically. I do find it funny that people are "ironically" liking the PT cause they think the ST sucks so much. A lot of those people seem to think that if Lucas made a ST, it would be amazing. I disagree completely to the point where if Lucas made a ST, I'm not sure if I'd waste my time watching it. Yesterday he came out again saying what he'd do for a ST (Leia would be the hero, with him re-using Maul as the villain) and some people are frothing over the idea, but Lucas is a terrible writer. Sure, credit him for creation but the man thought Obi-Wan telling Luke "Use the force Luke" at the end of New Hope was a stupid idea. I don't get the obsession with hating something so much as to make a 20+ minute video, aside from the whole click bait appeal.

Dunkey made a recent Last of Us 2 video, and in the beginning he says "I'm not here to regurgitate your opinion on a game". He liked LOU2 and people lost their minds about it.

The OT was so successful because of the people surrounding Lucas. I've read the graphic novel adaptation of his original script and it's pretty awful. Thankfully he worked it into what A New Hope became, but then that movie was only so good because his ex-wife edited into something watchable. All his director pals apparently thought the original cut was real bad. And then we know Empire and Jedi had other writers and directors working on it.

Then came the PT and it was all Lucas and just a bunch of yes-men who never challenged him, and we got what we got. I would have definitely given his ST at least a try just because I'm a fan of SW overall, but I wouldn't have had much faith unless he made them RIGHT after the OT, and long before the PT (so that particular story you mentioned wouldn't have happened regardless). Leia as a hero and Maul returning could've been cool if done right, and I feel like if he got help from the same folks who helped him on the OT, it could've turned out well. But I find that sequel idea to be difficult to imagine any time after the PT.

Plus I imagine folks would have whined about Leia being the hero or having anything to do with the Force like they did for TLJ and TROS, so that may have bit him in the ass regardless. "Not enough Luke! I want MY Luke!"

That news story about Lucas' version of the ST also mentioned that Maul would be teaming up with Darth Talon.

Talon was a Sith in the Legacy comics series from Dark Horse. Legacy was set 137 years after Episode 4. She fought a descendant of Luke's that was so distant we never even found out how many generations later he was. So I'm not sure how he was going to manage that one. Probably just ignore the comics, and steal the character and set her down in the sequel trilogy timeframe.

She was a female Twi'lek with red skin, tats that resembled Maul's, and an aversion to wearing much in the way of clothing.

image

Two names he wanted for the Vader Apprentice in The Force Unleashed games: Darth Insanius and Darth Icky.

Twitter is trying to "cancel" Gina Carano cause she said some anti-mask Q-Anon conspiracy crap.

Personally I don't care that she said stuff to make people upset (if she said to behead someone, that's a different story), but I find her acting really fudging bad/stale so if somehow Twitter's Cancel Train makes her character die, I wouldn't care.

Kommie wrote:

Cinemassacre did a video a while back about Star Wars, and one of the main points he focused on is how Star Wars drew inspiration from so many different sources, and that's why so many people like it so much. It's a combination of tons of different elements that we already liked. So I agree, the OT wasn't exactly original.

It doesn't make it bad though.

I agree.

Star Wars is this weird genre of Science Fantasy - not quite full Science Fiction, with some Fantasy as well. The comic SAGA does this Science-Fantasy thing really well too.

A while back I posted a short animation that broke down the original Episode IX story. This guy presents a longer and more in-depth analysis of Trevorrow’s script for anyone who hasn’t read it. Still depresses me that this isn’t the story we got. The only thing I don’t dig in this version is the Rey/Poe relationship, though even that is still pulled off alright. Otherwise it sounds like a really solid (and original) idea that would have wrapped up the saga real well. Oh well, it’s still interesting to hear about.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=is9bDMvwqwY&t=258s

Episode IX is perfect as is, just accept it.

Much as I will defend the sequel trilogy for the most part, the word "perfect" does not describe any of them, especially Episode IX. They needed to smooth out almost everything related to

, including his return, his ridiculously convoluted plan through the Sequel Trilogy, and why his defeat was even possible. Other parts of Ep 9 worked better, but the shoe-horning in of that villain, and almost everything related to him was a mess.

@Grenadier I was just messing with Jaw, me and him go back and forth about VIII vs IX. IX is my favorite, but it's definitely not perfect, nor are the revered OT films.

Scott wrote:

Eff I was gonna make the joke that you spelled “VIII” wrong here but forgot to. Damn me.

Scott wrote:


XIII??? Maybe I'm brain farting.


Edit: Missed the boat.

theJaw wrote:

Maybe he means XIII the game? No clue really.

Oh, lol @Scott. My bad.

SW movies all have flaws in them, none of them are ACTUALLY perfect, but to be fair, the original trilogy (at least IV and V) were as close to "perfect" sci-fi/fantasy movies at the time of their release for lots of folks. Sure we can use hindsight and acknowledge the blunders and shoddy writing from those movies (lookin' at you, brother/sister twist) but at that moment in film history, it was something completely fresh and new and interesting. I'm really jealous of my dad, who never passes up the opportunity to tell me that he was in the theater seeing the Tantive IV being chased by the much larger star destroyer at the beginning of ANH during its initial run - when nothing like it had ever been seen.

So to an extent I get why folks have been almost predisposed to be disappointed by any SW movies that followed, both PT and ST. Obviously as someone who grew up in the 90s, I don't share that exact sentiment and tend to be more disappointed by story-related issues within the movies, but I totally understand why some folks would consider the OT to be "perfect" in their eyes compared to later installments - later installments just weren't groundbreaking or revolutionary the way the first wave of SW movies had been. But that would have been near impossible at this point, people are so use to overblown spectacle by now. This, I feel, is the detail missed by those fans who tend to get toxic. Either they grew up with the OT as they were introduced, or they were brought up to revere those films over others BY the folks who grew up with the OT as they were introduced, so they become defensive and create this unearned sense of ownership to the movies solely because they devoted so much head space to them. But perspective changes as time passes and I really wish those folks who feel so anti-SW these days would just loosen up and go along for the ride...

...until Episode IX. You can skip that one.

KCPenguins wrote:

You haven't seen Episode XIII yet???

Scott wrote:

Honestly, they already released the opening crawl and everything...

https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs.io/#!/CMMx...

Why did they have to make that stupid plot twist with Rey in RoS? It's just so bad and so tropey Star Wars bullcrap.

I agree and that unnecessary kiss as well

@Kommie Think you answered your own question there. A familial connection is classic SW tropey bs. That one definitely was my least favorite though. For as little as Luke/Leia being siblings was planned, Rey/Palpatine was just a hail mary hope of appeasing the most vocal detractors of Rey being “no one.” All of them are attempts at rehashing the Luke/Vader reveal in Empire, which just can’t be replicated.

I think Trevorrow’s script handled Rey’s revelation gorgeously. In that version, Rey rises to the occasion against Kylo Ren and when he repeats that she is “no one”, she responds to him by saying “no one is no one.” After Rey defeats Kylo, he has one tiny window of civility and tells Rey her last name: Solana. No pre-established importance, the moment suggests that she made her name important herself by being a hero. Maybe a slightly cheesy line with the “no one” bit but it at least makes SW and the characters who populate that universe seem way more important and meaningful instead of insisting that everyone of true importance is required to be related to someone else of true importance in order to matter.

Despite establishing that the Force flows through the entire universe: Luke was only important because he was related to the OTs villain. Anakin was only important because he became Darth Vader/was Luke’s father. Rey was only important because she was related to the OTs primary villain.

I really hope the next sequel, if it happens, throws Rey into the Obi Wan role and allows the main protagonists of that story be fresh, new characters with no baggage left behind by legacy characters (the way Rey was until Episode IX).

JD wrote:

One of the most forced kisses in cinema history imo. That moment, to me, is the dead giveaway that Ep IX was just to spoon feed the out spoken fandom their own head canon because for some reason people constantly shipped Rey and Kylo despite him being a murderous neo-nazi sociopath until the last 45 minutes of the trilogy.

Yeah it's a rhetorical question. Anakin was No One. Why can't Rey be No One? Oh, right in a giant universe with billions of Planets all the main characters have to be related.

Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King (implying D and D probably ripped it off from TLJ).

Kommie wrote:

Yah it’s a bit silly. I mean I get wanting SW to feel “like SW”, so they paint the movie by numbers with all the pre-established SW cliches, but imo SW was always about the themes, not the moment-to-moment plot beats. Give me a thematically strong story that progresses the narrative instead of a tropey story that keeps the narrative in the status quo any day of the week.


Lol yah when that Arya/Night King scene aired, Rian Johnson sent out this MVP of a tweet:
image

Kommie wrote:

You do know which of those scenes was shot first, right?

Grenadier wrote:

TLJ is what I was implying.. It came out in 2017. I didn't do a great job of implying if though. D and D really didn't care at the end

Welp a buttload of news in the Star Wars universe after tonight...

Taika Waititi confirmed to be helming an untitled Star Wars movie - Pumped for this. Unlikely there is any other creator in Hollywood I have more faith in than Waititi. Everything he's done has been great, and after seeing his treatment of Thor I can only imagine what his SW movie will be like. Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins directing next Star Wars movie, titled "Rogue Squadron" and releasing in 2023 - Pumped for a Rogue Squadron movie and the teaser they released with Jenkins talking about her father and the movie she "always wanted to make" gives me faith that we'll get something worthwhile here. Hayden Christensen confirmed to be returning as Darth Vader in the Obi Wan Kenobi Disney+ show - I've always subscribed to the idea that Christensen only came off so rough in the prequels because it was George Lucas directing him. This dude has been real good in other projects. That said, he'll be playing Darth Vader this time... so who knows how much his performance will really matter. I assume James Earl Jones will still be voicing him if he's able. Either way, it oughtta be interesting to see how Vader plays into this story 10 years after Revenge of the Sith, or if it'll end up making his meeting with Kenobi in A New Hope a bit less special. Ahsoka Disney+ show confirmed - Wonderful. She ruled in Mandalorian and while I sorta hate that her sole purpose in that show as to set up this show, I'm still very much looking forward to this. The Ahsoka/Thrawn/Ezra/Sabine stuff may be my favorite aspect of Star Wars in this modern era, so I cannot wait for a show to delve deeper into all that. Mandalorian spin-off "Rangers of the New Republic" Disney+ show confirmed - I imagine this will tie into the X-Wing pilots who showed up during the 3rd and 4th episodes of Mandalorian Season 2. This could be cool but I'm wondering how it'll compare to/contrast against the Rogue Squadron movie. I feel like there's a real easy chance both projects overlap with themes and storytelling, but maybe that'll be on purpose and turn out well. I'm not super hyped for this but it will still be really cool to see the inner-workings of the New Rebellion for the first real time in live action canon. Lando Calrissian Disney+ show confirmed - Hopefully they're able to get Donald Glover, I don't know why you'd bother without him. Still, I'm not too too hyped about this. I'm sure it'll be fun enough but I feel like the Lando character has more-or-less been explored as much as they can. We'll see though. Andor Disney+ show confirmed, BTS teaser released - See: my Lando thoughts above. Just about the exact same feeling. "Mystery-thriller" Disney+ show titled "The Acolyte" confirmed - Intrigued to see what they do here, and if they actually commit to a "mystery-thriller" vibe for it. No story details are out as far as I know, but the genre could be neat for a Sith apprentice or something like that. Maybe some Palpatine/Plaguies stuff? UPDATE: This is apparently set during the new High Republic era that was announced and will be rolled out in 2021. I was skeptical at first but I'm looking forward to exploring that era in the comics so it'll be neat to see how the show ties in. The Bad Batch animated Disney+ show re-confirmed with a trailer - Probably what I'm least excited about. I'm over the clones in just about every way. I dig Rex because he's an actual character, but I don't need anymore prequel-era clone stories. It seems they're destined to keep doling them out though. Star Wars: Visions short animated film series confirmed - If this is anything like the old "Star Wars Tales" comics or the newer "Star Wars Adventures" comics, it could be great. Quick standalone stories that satisfy. Looking forward to seeing what they end up doing. "A Droid Story" starring C-3PO and R2-D2 short film confirmed - I have a soft, nostalgic spot in my heart for the real crappy Droids cartoon from the 80s, especially the movie they edited a few of the episodes into, so I'll watch this and probably love it. Apparently it's about them leading a new character through a story, which is similar to the cartoon premise. Looking forward to it even if I don't expect that much out of it.

If I missed any news, post about it here.

Too much to get me to watch all of it. Maybe some.

Kommie wrote:

As a fan of Star Wars in this modern streaming era, there's no such thing as "too much" - just "what I'll feel like watching". I say keep pumping out the content for those who will be into it, and it at least offers some stuff I can visit down the road when I'm bored if I pass on it initially.

Mostly just interested in Obi-Wan and Taika's movie, but I'll give the rest of the non-animated stuff a chance.

BTW, we missed a Star Wars obit a few weeks ago, and another popped up today.

David Prowse (Darth Vader) passed on November 28th, 2020.

Jeremy Bulloch (original Boba Fett in Empire and Return of the Jedi) passed today, December 17, 2020.

Reed wrote:

Teasers like this are as helpful as CGI game reveals that show no game-play for new IPs.

I just thought that teaser was a neat little announcement video. Wasn’t really meant to be an actual trailer or anything.

theJaw wrote:

Yeah like, "Guess what we're making? We know it's a big deal to a lot of you. Get hyped"

What’s the best way to read/learn about Rouge Squadron? There are books but which one lol.

Reed wrote:

The Marvel SW comics featured them (issues 52-55). Not sure if it’s the current run or the one right before the current run.

There was also a Dark Horse comic series that was great:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&lo...

That’s a link for the omnibus, but it’s almost $50 because those books are out of print nowadays and the stories are now “legends” (non-canon).

Otherwise there were those 3 games. I believe the first came out for N64, then Rogue Leader and RS3 came out on Gamecube (and other consoles?).

Thanks, yeah I saw the Omnibus book on Amazon the other day and thought that might be the place to start.

Reed wrote:

Yah from what I remember, those comics rule.

Important to also note that it was actually Rogue Squadron that attacked the Death Star with Luke in A New Hope, so they naturally have a ton of stories in the canon and non-canon lore. There was a Dark Horse miniseries about Biggs Darklighter (Luke’s pal from ANH) that was really fun.

So some exploring may do ya well as far as Rogue Squadron and its members and all the stories in regards to them go.

I remember trying to read the old Rogue Squadron books years ago and always getting bored.

I need a good Rogue Squadron movie.

razeak wrote:

Looks like there’s a good chance you’ll be getting one.

Curious as to what kinda story The Mandalorian does for Season 3. Dark Saber will probably be the focus, and I imagine people will "protest" and claim to not watch if Grogu is absent all season, or most of it.

I doubt there will be protest. Grogu’s story was paid off perfectly in the finale, and it’s SW so you know the character will resurface eventually. I personally expect him to be a big part in whatever the crossover between Mandalorian/Rangers of the New Republic/Ahsoka(+Book of Boba Fett?) will be. He’ll probably be a “key” in defeating Thrawn.

Mando Season 3 will almost definitely revolve around Mandalore and who is the rightful ruler.... if the planet even still exists. Bill Burr said it didn’t in Episode 7 so who knows. Regardless I imagine the Darksaber is still the symbol for whoever “leads” all Mandalorians so that will definitely be a major factor in Season 3.

Just sorta silly because the Darksaber has literally never had the “only passes via combat” rule, so that was invented just to add tension between Mando and Bo Katan. They straight steal it from Maul, and then Sabine just gives it to Bo Katan in Rebels. None of this “you need to beat them in combat” stuff.

I haven't seen Season 2 yet (will be binging soon) but it's interesting that the baby Yoda stuff is over already. I was expecting a kind of "Lone Wolf and Cub" thing that would play out over many seasons, not just 2. I guess I thought Grogu factored more into the imbedded story than he is.

Looking forward to watching S2.

Favreau apparently said

Yeah I'm sure we'll see more of Grogu, hopefully it's sooner than later though. I'm excited to see what they do with Mando possessing the darksaber.

My wife is calling Grogu "Googoo baby" now.

theJaw wrote:

They picked a good director. She's also inspired by her dad being an F4 pilot. I hope that all translates well.

No baby yoda, no viewers.

I was watching a video just now and it got me thinking about Star Wars nitpicks again, so I just wanted to type up my overly-long, drawn out opinion on one of those nitpicks. I'm sure nobody cares and I expect either silence or indifferent comments, but I felt like typing a bit.

One of the major issues a lot of people had with the sequel trilogy is that the existence of the First Order suggested that nothing was accomplished in the OT but they always seem to leave the entire "government" aspect out of their arguments.

(DISCLAIMER: I know this is only one of many other "major issues" folks took with the sequels and probably ranks low on that list, but I just had the thought pop in my head and felt like typing about it and, hopefully, discussing it with anyone who cares to.)

The idea that fantasy worlds shouldn't reflect real-life issues is flawed in and of itself. Who do they think is writing these things? Oh yeah: people in the real world. Those writers draw inspiration and themes from real life, whether intentional or not. More often, it is intentional.

Star Trek is a great example. Roddenberry explicitly created the show so he could tell social and political stories, using the science fiction setting to get it past the censors and advertisers. Nowadays, you have people losing their minds if Star Trek dares to tell a socially relevant story. Newsflash folks: your lack of historical and cultural knowledge is showing.

Star Wars isn't all that different. You've got the plucky Rebellion against a totalitarian regime. Classic good vs evil. But you've got to get that the writers are going to be influenced by 20th and 21st century history while writing it. Stormtroopers are not something Lucas made up. The name goes back to World War I Germany. The X-Wing fighter scenes are straight out of World War II movies. Lucas has given interviews where he claims the politics of the Viet Nam era fed directly into his early draft scripts. And so on. Star Wars always had the real life elements to it, from day one. If people didn't understand that, that's on them, not the makers of the sequels.

Yah agreed. Lucas also talked about likening the Empire in Episode III to George W Bush’s administration, even having Anakin almost quoting Bush word-for-word at one point. The political/real life context was always there with Star Wars, the OT just took a very “good vs bad” approach to it because, to be honest, those movies are pretty surface-level fantasy and they tend to focus more on the Skywalker family drama more than the details of the war that acts as the backdrop to those stories. But that’s exactly why people loved the EU - because it DID delve into those more layered details and gave us a look at the inner-workings of both the Rebel Alliance and the Empire and the political motivations of both. People used to clamor for movies integrating those aspects. So to now claim that this sort of thing “isn’t Star Wars” doesn’t really make sense. It’s one thing to be upset that the stories you spent time with are no longer “canon” (despite never being true canon in the first place), but to manufacture an argument that there’s no place for those aspects in SW just reads as an attempt to pile on the Disney/sequel hate.

I keep seeing stuff pop up about the ST being remade on Disney+. @theJaw ? you see anything about this?

Kommie wrote:

Will never happen in a million years

they should remake the PT first, if anything.

Some movies are good, some are bad, and that goes for more than SW obv. So I don't think they should remake any of them solely to make "better" versions geared directly toward the people who disliked the "original" versions. I'm not a huge fan of the PT, some people are. I can live with it, just like the anti-Disney neckbeards can live with the ST existing the way it does.

No one is going to remake any of them for the simple reason that they will make more money doing something new.

Hopefully they actually learn from their mistake and have a coherent trilogy.

Kommie wrote:

Or just tell a story in one-and-done movie. Worked for Rogue One.

That probably works better

http://awinegarner.squarespace.com/duel-of-the-fat...

A fan adapted Colin Trevorrow’s leaked Episode IX script into a web comic and it’s even better than just reading the script. The art isn’t INCREDIBLE or anything, and a lot of it is unfinished as far as color and the final 2 issues goes, but it gets the job done and is better than anything I could draw haha. It’s fun to at least see the story in a visual medium.

Ah, what could have been.

Thanks for sharing that. The art work really isn't that bad.

Yah the more I read it, the more I feel stupid about that comment haha. Dude is a pretty great artist to be honest

theJaw wrote:

So his story ends with Rey getting hit in both eyes with a lightsaber, leaving her blinded (maybe dead)? Lame. Good thing we didn't get any of that garbage instead of the awesome Ep IX we did get!

That sounds a lot better than "Somehow, Palpatine returned."

@Scott def not dead, but the blindness thing is a classic samurai film trope which always work well with SW. The duel itself would have been way more badass than the one we ended up with, but please go on about how that absolutely cringe worthy “Rey who?” moment was a better ending

I'll take a feel-good ending over the protagonist being blinded and left for dead as the ending to a trilogy any day.

Scott wrote:

That isn’t how the script ends haha, that comic is unfinished. She ends up restarting the Jedi order and it’s just as “feel good” but without the forced metaphorical familial tie.

Oh ok. I said "so his story ends..." in my previous post and you didn't correct me, so I figured that must be it.

I did say she didn’t die but yah, could’ve been clearer. If THAT was the actual ENDing ending, I def wouldn’t be so happy with that script haha. I like downer endings for certain stories but SW is not that story.

I only skimmed those comics, but the one thing that actually does look better is Rey having the dual lightsaber. I'm still mad she didn't actually have it in Ep IX.

Anyone watching The Bad Batch? Second episode dropped today and the first was pretty darn good. I had no real interest in this particular show (I’m over the clone schtick tbh) but the plot they’re building is actually pretty interesting.

theJaw wrote:

I'm interested in it. Is it watchable without having to watch the Clone Wars show? I have 0 desire to watch that

@Kommie yeah I’d say it is as long as you have some knowledge of Order 66 and that whole situation, which anyone who’s seen the movies should.

I’ve seen very few episodes of Clone Wars myself, I wasn’t huge into it, and I was fine keeping up. There’s probably little easter eggs that I didn’t catch but nothing plot-breaking. There’s also an appearance made by the younger version of a character from Rebels (which I did watch), but if I didn’t know exactly who it was it wouldn’t have mattered - his appearance doesn’t require any previous knowledge in order to get what’s going on.

I’d say give it a go if you think it looks up your alley.

theJaw wrote:

Just actually watched it on the 4th. I kind of want to watch The Clone Wars again... but I did enjoy this.

Also watched Star Wars Biomes.... it got me wanting a Planet Earth style of show but with the main Star Wars planets.

image

Just stumbled upon this photo and never really put this together. It puts the calm look Obi Wan gets when he lets Darth Vader strike him down into a whole new context. He sees Luke and Leia, and realizes that he has completed his job: he protected Luke until he began to realize his own destiny, thus setting in motion what would ultimately save the galaxy. Luke being reunited with his sister was proof of that, so he felt at peace letting his guard down and leaving the mortal plane to finally become one with the Force.

Who knows if Lucas had envisioned this when writing that scene in A New Hope (I sorta doubt it) and who knows if he included Obi Wan in Episode III's birth scene in order to create that context (also sorta doubt it), but it works out real well either way.

Lol never even considered that

I want to believe but don’t give Lucas that much credit

theJaw wrote:

Not like they could really kill anyone though with their aim.

For anyone who was interested when I posted about this a while back, the fan comic adaptation of Colin Trevorrow's Episode IX script "Duel of the Fates" has been completed, full color: http://awinegarner.squarespace.com/duel-of-the-fat...

Just reread it now that it's finished. Such a great story, and wraps up the entire saga in such a wonderful way. If anyone is looking for an alternate Episode IX, or are at all interested in what was planned prior to Abrams being rehired on the film, I definitely recommend reading this comic.

Not an attempted slight toward The Rise of Skywalker, my thoughts on that movie are well-established, just appreciation of a story I enjoyed a bit more than what we got in the official movie.

Posting this for the sheer absurdity of it.

My previous comment up above talked about the comic adaptation of the original Episode IX script....

Now I present you with a full-length adaptation of it using.... action figures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIo4aqyhUHQ

The lengths some people will go to haha

Obi-Wan series:

I'm freaking stoked over this. He's one of the best characters in Star Wars. It's pretty clear they are going to have him fight Vader again, but I really hope to see him helping people and just being a good dude. I'm also sure that Vader won't be on Tatooine so we'll get some different scenery thankfully.

Obi-Wan has a nice surprise for music fans....

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-williams-...

Nice!

Grenadier wrote:

That's like half of why I'll be watching haha

That show has got to be better than Boba Fett though, really hope they do Obi Wan justice.

Figured I'd re-open the thread since Kenobi drops on Friday and Star Wars Celebration starts tomorrow & lasts until Sunday. Obviously not going, but I'm pretty pumped about Celebration. SW has been pretty top notch since moving to streaming TV & focusing more on comics/books (except for half of Boba Fett), so I'm excited to see what they reveal.

For Celebration, I predict:
-Taika Waititi's SW movie announcement
-Andor trailer
-Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen appearances
-Cast announcement for The Acolyte show

I'm excited for Kenobi, but it's going to be a bit before I'm able to watch it. I want to watch the Boba Fett show first (I know it's not required, I just want to, since it came out first). Also, we're trying to finish re-watching S1-S3 of Stranger Things before we watch S4, and we're already going to be a few days late on that.

It's definite that Taika is directing a SW movie, we just don't know what exactly it will be yet, right?

Scott wrote:

Well Lucasfilm has a history of replacing directors but Taika is so popular that they just can't this time. So, yah, he's confirmed but the actual movie itself is unknown so far. Would be wonderful to find out what he's doing during Celebration.

For those interested, here's the YouTube link for the Celebration live stream. Starts at 3:30 eastern. It says it's the "complete Celebration day 1" but of course it starts immediately after the Lucasfilm Showcase, which is likely where all the most important stuff will be revealed/discussed. No idea why they chose to do that but whatev I suppose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swclPDFHKNk

They basically redid it all for the live stream. Sounded like they basically had the guests do the panel, and turn around and do it again for the stream and the fans in that room.

Yah I was keeping up. The Andor trailer looks way better than I expected but otherwise it was sort of nothing.

Obi-Wan Kenobi drops tomorrow.

First 2 episodes of Kenobi dropped 3 hours early, it’s out on Disney+ right now. Watching the first ep now & going to a watch gathering tomorrow to watch both. Happy to be excited for Star Wars again (pls be better than Episode IX & Book of Boba Fett).

Even after just those 2 episodes, Obi Wan Kenobi is already EASILY my favorite of the Star Wars Disney+ shows. Great stuff, can't wait for the next 4.

Fuuck yah. So pumped. Not a gameplay trailer, but I've been waiting for a sequel to Fallen Order since I beat that game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkdkVade36s

Replacement video from official EA Star Wars feed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HLDaBGdnLc&ab_cha...

I'm a fan of Kenobi so far. Only a minor quibble about the minor actors in Disney+ all having the same tone.

Also, Andor trailer put that at the top of my anticipated projects.

I didn't really rub up against the actors in Kenobi so far. I know Kumail Nanjiani seemed a bit out of place because he was literally just playing the same character he would in any project, but even then I didn't really mind it too hard. I liked the character's heroism at the end of the second episode, honestly. My biggest complaint is the pacing of Episode 2, and how long the "Leia runs away" shtick lasted. To be honest, I don't really understand Leia's motivation to run away in the first place, but I can chalk that up to her being young and naive, not understanding the actual situation.

But yah, Andor's trailer over-delivered big time. What was originally my least anticipated SW show, is suddenly right up there at the top. It looks great. Here's hoping it delivers an actually-good narrative and they didn't just pluck all the best shots for the teaser.

Kenobi has been great so far. I loved ep 3. I especially loved that they still had JEJ voicing Vader. I remember thinking the voice for Vader in Rogue One seemed frail...like JEJ's voice had got weak with age, but he was prefect in this one. It also feels cooler just KNOWING that Hayden Christensen is in the suit. The fight was fantastic too. Vader feels so powerful and Obi-Wan feels like a guy completely out of practice and overpowered.

My one quibble. I wish they used the Imperial March for Vader. I know John Williams music is not used for the shows, but it definitely felt like a lost opportunity. They spared no expense for these shows. Just pay the man and use his masterpiece.

@bonham2 They could totally still use Williams’ music, I think it’s more of a decision not to, but yah it would’ve been nice to hear. Maybe they’re saving it for the finale or something.

Williams actually scored the Kenobi show’s theme song, but the rest of the show is being scored by Natalie Holt.

Jedi Survivor trailer dropped at the Game Awards. I am fudging READY for this game, looks as great as the first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRaobDJjiec

I'm so behind on Star Wars games. I really need to start fitting them in.

Scott wrote:

Fallen Order is definitely worth your time if you haven't played it yet.

That's the main one I want to play, but I haven't even played the Battlefront games and kinda want to check those out first.

Yeah I'm gonna be a naysayers with JFO. It was so janky and forgettable. No interest in this new one.

The first one had parts that I enjoyed, but the map was the worst of any game I've ever played. I still haven't finished the platinum, because it's so easy to get lost trying to find all of the collectibles.

I didn't notice JFO being janky or anything like that, I really loved the mechanics and the lightsaber combat is the best of any SW game yet imo.

I CAN see the map criticism I suppose. I mean, I had no trouble with it, but I wish it was generally a bit more "open world" and not as linear as it was. Traveling to new planets should seem like TRAVELING TO NEW PLANETS, not "traveling to one specific, very small area of a planet".

A couple bullet points from the first day of Star Wars Celebration from London:

-3 new live action movies were announced. They will be head up by Dave Filoni (so many SW projects), James Mangold (Logan, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny), and Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy (Ms. Marvel). Let’s hope these actually happen and don't get fudged like so many other SW projects under Kathleen Kennedy (who is a great producer, but isn't the greatest fit for SW imo).

-Daisy Ridley is returning as Rey in the Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy-lead movie, which will take place after The Rise of Skywalker and apparently revolve around Rey attempting to rebuild the Jedi Academy.

-Mary Elizabeth Winstead is playing Hera from Rebels in Ahsoka. Love Winstead, loved Hera in Rebels, so this is just a neat little addition.

-They apparently debuted a clip from episode 7 of The Mandalorian that teases some neat story progression regarding certain returning characters, both from Mandalorian and other SW stories, but I don’t wanna spoil. I find the tease very interesting though. The link at the bottom of this post delves deeper into it.

-Andor Season 2 is aiming for August 2024 release. This has been my personal favorite Star Wars output since The Last Jedi, so I'm excited to see how it wraps up.

-Star Wars: The Acolyte is apparently described as "Frozen Meets Kill Bill" (somehow) and will release in 2024.

-They revealed "The Skeleton Crew" footage to the London crowd, but no footage has been released online and there's still no release date.

Here's the IGN page with more details:
https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-celebration...

The Filoni movie is apparently a finale for the Mandalorian/Boba Fett/Ahsoka storylines.

The Mangold movie is about the Dawn of the Jedi.

There was a new Indiana Jones trailer in Friday's coverage too. They are now referring to it as the "end of the franchise," implying no one will be recast as Indy in the future. We'll see how long that lasts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnzNZ0Mdx4I&t=28s&...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQfMbSe7F2g&t=14s&...

Daisy Ridley returning as Rey: great, love her character and she is at the perfect level to put wonderful story arcs through her character.

The fact that Disney's track record on almost ALL media has been near horrible the last few years says to me: nope. Not even Rey can save it.

rayzor6 wrote:

I'm pretty excited for it tbh. I like Rey, but I never LOVED her, and I thought what The Rise of Skywalker did to her character was pretty silly. That said, I'm interested to see where they bring her & the Jedi Academy next. Apparently her movie takes place 15 years after the Battle of Exegol from TROS, so that time jump alone gets me real interested.


I don't think this is an accurate assessment in the slightest, but to each their own.

Grenadier wrote:

Yeah I read that after the fact. That gets me pumped. Did they say it was a full-on "finale" or just sort of a big climax for those shows with the possibility of continuations down the line, similar to what The Avengers was for the MCU? With all the Rebels characters returning for Ahsoka and, I assume, the Filoni movie, I'd love to see more of them in the future.


This is also neat. I know that this was the time period that the GOT show-runners were aiming for before they got the axe, so it seems Lucasfilm is all-in when it comes to showing us the early days of the Jedi. That should be real interesting to see.

rayzor6 wrote:

This ignores an awful lot of good product. Mandalorian, Bad Batch, and Andor, for starters. I actually enjoyed Obi-Wan, though I know that is not a popular opinion.

theJaw wrote:

I'd imagine it could be either. But with Skeleton Crew and The Acolyte waiting in the wings, maybe they are wrapping it up, for now. They could always reopen that era if they had a story to tell. I suppose we'll find out as we get closer to that movie.

Grenadier wrote:

And that's just SW. Between the MCU, the documentaries and the pure Disney stuff (especially the children's animation realm), there has been lots of good media put out by Disney. Some misses for sure, but it certainly isn't close to "almost all".

I thought Obi-Wan was just okay, mostly sorta rough, but it does have one of my all-time favorite SW moments in that finale, with the Obi-Wan/Darth Vader conversation.

It's almost all garbage. One's "just okay" and "liked but not LOVED" is many people's "garbage" and "hated, not liked". Again...you can like what you want but the many many failed sales projections that come about on these movies are either showing that the audiences aren't having it.

rayzor6 wrote:

I don't know if your analysis of the sales is accurate. I looked this up not to argue, but because I was genuinely curious as to the info, and just a quick bit of research reveals that Disney+ has only been gaining revenue since 2020, other than the final 3 months of 2022, where it dropped 2.4 million subs entirely due to the version of Disney+ in the India market losing rights to stream IPL (Indian Premier Leage) cricket matches late in the year. Otherwise, Disney's streaming services are apparently doing much better than analysts projections: "In the U.S./Canada, Disney+ gained about 200,000 subs (to reach 46.6 million). Hulu gained 800,000 in the quarter to stand at 48.0 million, and ESPN+ increased by 600,000 to 24.9 million." And on top of that, they seem to be gaining revenue in other areas like film and parks/experiences. Sure some movies like Solo and The Rise of Skywalker, along with a few MCU movies, failed to meet projections - but they still ultimately made money as opposed to lost it.

Obviously no expert here, just getting my info from Variety's report of the earnings call that took place in February: https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/disney-q1-2023-e...

Even despite that doom and gloom headline, the majority of the news in that article is positive for Disney, obviously other than the drop in the India market.

So yah, like you said, one is free to like or dislike anything dependent on their tastes, but a personal opinion on certain movies/shows doesn't necessarily translate to a universal overall drop from the audience. A certain sect of the audience may not be "having it", but that doesn't seem to be the majority in this particular scenario.

Look at this crazy crap. A visual effects artist who worked on projects like Andor, House of the Dragon, Black Adam, etc, is fan-editng the Obi-Wan Kenobi show into a film that works with established canon more, and he's completely redoing certain VFX shots. He's even doing re-shoots for additional footage to make his narrative work better. The trailer alone already looks better than the series. I'm pumped to give it a go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrFS760Vkk8

Been on yet another Star Wars kick lately (obviously) and can't help but continue to be disappointed in how the ST ended up. I really enjoyed 2/3 of it, and can still have fun watching The Rise of Skywalker despite its several flaws, but upon more re-watches, the whole backlash between Episodes VIII and IX still really baffles me. More whining in spoiler tags:

Yeah, I agree they did Kylo Ren poorly with that last movie. I don't jump into the hate train with those movies, as I think they have some cool stuff in them, but how they managed the trio of baddies wasn't the best.

Yah I'm with you, no hate. Just disappointment really. I really like The Force Awakens, love The Last Jedi, and dislike The Rise of Skywalker aside from the visuals. To be honest, TROS may be the most visually pleasing of any Star Wars movie, just a pure spectacle of effects. So no hate train here, I just wish they either a) had a more clear map for what the trilogy was going to be and used one writer for the whole thing, or b) followed through on what was introduced in Episodes VII and VIII for Episode IX.

Folks can dislike the story decisions made in The Last Jedi, completely valid to rub up against some of the events in that movie, but that doesn't negate the fact that those events were still entirely plausible, story-wise, in the aftermath of The Force Awakens. TLJ's story certainly wasn't what was expected as they didn't rely on the sought after SW tropes, but nothing that happened in that movie straight up erased what happened in the previous movie like some folks tend to suggest. It just didn't present the most predictable continuations of the story threads TFA introduced, which I personally loved. It was The Rise of Skywalker that truly retconned not just TLJ's story, but plenty of what JJ Abrams himself established in TFA.

So yah, I wish they would have just let one person helm the entire trilogy from the get go, or had some creative integrity and just committed to the story they already green-lit when they made The Last Jedi as the sequel to The Force Awakens. Those two movies presented a perfect villain arc for Kylo Ren that had the potential to get a great pay off in Episode IX, but they just went back to the well instead.

Finally got around to watching the Ahsoka trailer, it looks really freaking good!

theJaw wrote:

I loved Rey, glad to hear she's coming back!

Yah it’ll be cool to see Rey back for sure. Though I’m mostly excited to see the specific subject matter of her movie. Finally seeing a cinematic take on the New Jedi Academy is gonna rule big time.

I found the sequel trilogy to be an enormous disappointment and struggle to find too many redeeming qualities in those movies. The original trilogy and prequel trilogy had their faults but the characters (mostly) were interesting and entertaining.

Aside from BB-8, Maz Kanata, and Vice Admiral Holdo, none of the characters are likeable or interesting in these 3 movies. The story was half clone of previous installments and half 'took too much valium before putting pen to paper'. I'm not sure how many times you can re-release the Wizard of Oz before someone needs to do something new with it.

For starters, you've got Rey. Ignoring how creepy it is thinking about Palps getting it on long after he was disfigured and avoiding the obvious mathematical 'irregularities' that could possibly make her his grand daughter, everything else is bland. Keep in mind that Ben Solo is Anakin's grandson...who is 10 years older than her. Anakin was a little kid when Palps was 52 years old in the Phantom Menace. Before she gets a moment of any training, she manages to basically defeat him, who was only trained by Luke Skywalker his entire life. This is the same guy who defeats Snoke a few hours later. The series does nothing to develop any sort of personality for her. That said, I feel Daisy Ridley 'could' have been an excellent character but the writing just ruined it. Hopefully any further movies with Rey have someone who actually heard of Star Wars at the helm to salvage her.

Finn - Mr. Friendzone....Honestly, the character just sucks.

Poe - Poe could have been a top guy in the series but they basically ignored him and did nothing to develop him other than some loudmouth hotshot pilot who annoys everyone.

Ben Solo - I like Adam Driver as an actor but couldn't figure out the whole emo pouty child he played in this. One would expect the child of Han Solo and Leia Organa to have some of the qualities of one or both parents....but he has none of them. Boring and miscast, poorly written, and impossible to take seriously as any sort of villain aside from his opening scene. After that, he just sucked.

Returning cast from 4-6 were mostly 'meh'. Their characters, aside from Leia, were watered down and forgettable. Nothing with Luke made an ounce of sense.


----

Moving on to the TV shows and animated stuff, it's fantastic - all of it. Each of them has snuck in little things throughout that really resonate while connecting a lot of dots in the movies and build the franchise. I've re-watched all of them and will again. Even 'minor' characters such as Axe Woves, Kuill, Teva, etc can be cared about easily compared to any of the sequel trilogy characters.

Didn't neg you, but I disagree with a good 85-90% of that post haha. BUT that's Star Wars for ya, the entire fandom is just a sea of vastly varying opinions.

I've enjoyed all of the Star Wars movies and shows, although, some more than others. I'm pretty easy going when it comes to the franchise.

That’s how folks need to be with SW, or else they’ll end up complaining nonstop. I admit I post my qualms here because I write a lot so I like to discuss story details, even if I dislike them. But I don’t hate any of it. I can sit and watch pretty much anything SW related and be perfectly entertained for the most part.

…but Attack of the Clones puts that philosophy to the test lol

Attack of the Clones is the most forgettable of all the movies, lol.

Yeah, AotC is definitely my least favorite SW movie/show.

May the Fourth Be With You, my fellow SW pals. I felt dorky typing that.

I just realized that there's a group watch feature on Disney+. Would any of yall with that particular subscription service like to schedule a SW watch along? Could meet in the GTZ Discord to chat while we watch, maybe do once a week for each of the 9 movies or something. Or just the OT... or even just A New Hope. I'm down for whatever you guys want. And if that means NO watch along, friggin whatev.

Whoever may be interested, let me know!

Wish I could, but I probably wouldn't be able to find the time to really commit to it.

This just reminded me, I still need to watch Obi-Wan, and finish S3 of The Mandalorian.

For anyone who may be interested, CBR published my first article regarding Star Wars the other day:

https://www.cbr.com/in-defense-finn-arc-star-wars-...

"In Defense of Finn's Arc in Star Wars: The Last Jedi"

Because of course.

theJaw wrote:

Just stumbled upon this comment I made... boy, how wrong I was. Save for the conversation between Obi Wan and Vader in the final episode, that show ranks among the bottom of the barrel for me unfortunately.