General

Topic   So another shooting has rocked the US...

ft763
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review Australia
* 26-Oct-2023(#1)
At least 3 location in Maine have been assaulted and the perp is considered armed and extremely dangerous. Stay safe people!

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/police...

Praying for y'all
loztdogs
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
30-Oct-2023(#121)
Lunar wrote:
>A universal database with yellow and red flags
> for people who have been mentally unstable(like the Maine shooter), information needs to be shared and in an accessible database or else it's useless.
>

We already have a system in place like you describe above, if I’m not mistaken. At least for retail. California has a 10 day waiting period for fire arms and for ammunition. I don’t think you can have any unregulated sales in CA either like person to person. Those types of sales/transfers have to happen at a licensed firearms dealer.


Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader
30-Oct-2023(#122)
Surveys have shown that about 75% of Americans favor "common sense" gun control like the assault weapons ban, red flag laws, waiting periods, and background checks. However, enough of them still vote for the puppets of the NRA who oppose any and all measures proposed that no effective laws get passed.
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
30-Oct-2023(#123)
California has the strictest gun laws in the nation, and the 8th lowest level of gun related violence.
And that's despite being a border state for all of the people claiming that "terrorists" are flooding across the border every day.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_...

Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
30-Oct-2023(#124)
yea, we need a national database for background checks. Too easy to cross state borders.

incubus421
450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
30-Oct-2023(#125)
Y2k wrote:
> Taking guns away from law abiding owners and having laws in place to make it difficult/challenging
> to get a legal gun only hurts the law abiding people since criminals are, well, criminals.
>

The thing is, a person is only a criminal once they have a record. Right now, they can skip the part where they become a criminal by illegally obtaining a firearm, because it's so easy to do so legally. Even having a criminal record doesn't bar you from legally obtaining a firearm in parts of the US. This sounds dense, but I'd prefer criminals be forced to take criminal action to obtain their desired firearm. If "criminals gonna criminal", why make it easier? Why have any rules in place if bad people are just going to do it anyways?
Chad
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
30-Oct-2023(#126)
Having lots of guns makes me feel ok about having a small penis.
Miranda
250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review
* 30-Oct-2023(#127)
back4more wrote:
> .
>
> There are many, many domestic risks, mentally ill with firearms, far right nut groups,
> but probably more criminals that are looking to shoot, kill, and/or rob people. Lots
> of terrorists are crossing the borders illegally every day as well. What I am saying
> is until things can be corrected nationally be sure to protect yourselves.

That's a whole lot of hooey. You said lots of terrorists crossing the borders because you were told lots of terrorists were crossing the borders. You were told that by a pathological liar who is batcrap crazy and wants to manipulate gullible people who are entrenched in a cultist mindset. You have absolutely no proof of that. You just just bought the orange bag of bullcrap and chose to marinate in it.

The biggest domestic terrorist threat the United States faces, above and before foreign terrorists including Isis and its sympathizers, are white supremacist groups and far-right extremist groups. Homegrown.

Terrorists have always been able to get into the country just like everybody else; through legal ports of entry. That's how the majority of people and drugs come into this country. Look at 9/11. People weren't screaming "the terrorists are coming over the border!" Because nobody was dumb enough to say something so foolish and most people wouldn't bought that nonsense even then. They got in though, didn't they? Why? Because they have always been able to get in a border wall isn't going to stop that. If one makes the effort to look at all the domestic terrorist attacks that have occurred since 9/11 and are capable of being honest they will see who's responsible for the domestic terrorism in this country. It isn't make believe Boogeyman. The Caravans are coming! The Caravans are coming! The Caravans are coming! It's our own people who are the most dangerous and they just keep getting more and more dangerous. Just like for decades they've been screaming "they're going to take our guns! They're going to take our guns!" It works. It's a lie, but it works. Everybody ignores that not once has anyone ever tried to repeal the Second Amendment. Common Sense gun control? Absolutely. Taking away weapons that are great for mass shootings? Absolutely. Dangerous criminals and mentally ill people not having guns? Seems to be common sense, but it isn't. Look at the numbers after weapons used in mass shootings were banned. Then look at the numbers after psychos were permitted to have them or they were made available by stupid people who don't know how to take care of their guns. Look at the number of incidents. The number of mass shootings after crazies were permitted to have guns & ammo that are unnecessary and people who should happy permitted to have guns have increased exponentially. Everybody wants to say guns aren't the problem. People are the problem. Yeah. Let's go with that. Why give people who are a serious problem guns? That nonsense that people need to protect themselves is so silly. They may be able to do some serious damage to a small area, but they're Beyond stupid if they think they're going to be able to stave off the National Guard. They sure as hell aren't going to be able to stave off our military if the Insurrection Act is invoked.
loztdogs
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
30-Oct-2023(#128)
Hilary Clinton is that you?

benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
30-Oct-2023(#129)
incubus421 wrote:
> Y2k wrote:
>> Taking guns away from law abiding owners and having laws in place to make it
> difficult/challenging
>> to get a legal gun only hurts the law abiding people since criminals are, well,
> criminals.
>>

There are plenty of things we require tests and licenses for.

Guns get a pass because they are enshrined in thr constitution because in the 1790s they were pretty much a necessity for survival. Not to mention the revolutionary War was still quite fresh in people's minds. The conquest of nations was still very much a thing many countries wanted to do.

Nowadays, Not only do I need a license to drive a car (much more of a necessity today than a gun, IMO - especially the single shot muskets and flintlock guns of the 18th century), I am also required to maintain insurance on it, and regularly renew my license every few years. Lose my eyesight? No more car for me.

Certainly we could make requiring a mental health test, safety test, and possibly even insurance a thing for guns as well? As it stands now I could legally buy one even if I were completely blind.

Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
30-Oct-2023(#130)
I just don't understand the resistance. Is it really because you're afraid you can't revolt against the government?

loztdogs
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
30-Oct-2023(#131)
Lunar wrote:
> I just don't understand the resistance. Is it really because you're afraid you can't
> revolt against the government?
>
>

Who’s resisting? The thread has been mainly folks getting defensive if the conversation eludes to anything other than Yes, you’re right gun reform is the only option. Speaking for myself only. I already said I’m for gun control. I fully agree criminals and the mentally ill should not have or own firearms. Or even be able to access one if that’s not clear.

Out of curiosity those that are pro gun reform; what is/has been your relationship with firearms? Grew up around them, owned one etc..?


Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
30-Oct-2023(#132)
Literally all of GOP

John
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (13)
31-Oct-2023(#133)
loztdogs wrote:
> Out of curiosity those that are pro gun reform; what is/has been your relationship
> with firearms? Grew up around them, owned one etc..?

Since you asked... Grew up around them, yes. My father was a cop for years. Was used to seeing his revolver every day. He also carried a 9mm when not on duty. I never had a "big gun" when I was younger -- shot a lot of BB guns and some .22 for fun now and then. Was never a hunter.

As an adult, I own a shotgun that I inherited. Have never fired it.

In short, grew up very much around them. Happen to own one. Haven't shot one in years.
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
* 31-Oct-2023(#134)
loztdogs wrote:
> Out of curiosity those that are pro gun reform; what is/has been your relationship
> with firearms? Grew up around them, owned one etc..?

To my knowledge, my parents did not own any (or if they did they kept quiet about it).

Had plenty of friends whose parents did. Some of those parents were responsible, some were not.

Friends often had BB guns or pellet guns which we would use for target practice. Proper safety procedures not always followed by my friends in those cases.

One of the neighbor kids accidentally got shot in the eye with a BB gun and lost all vision in that eye.

On a separate occasion I was shot at point blank in the side of the head with a BB gun from one of those friends who was playing with it and was sure it wasn't loaded.

In both these cases, glad it was just a bb gun.

Used actual pistols and rifles on occasion in Boy Scouts. Definitely followed proper safety procedures there.

I now live in KY where gun culture is absolutely huge. I would guess 80% of the people I know own firearms.

I am comfortable handling guns (rather, i shoulf say I am comfortably uncomfortable so that i am not complacent) but have zero faith in other people being as responsible. Kind of like driving. Except here you don't need a license, training, background check, etc. As long as you are of age and have money you can buy guns.

Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
31-Oct-2023(#135)
Never owned a gun. Been to a range a few times, that's about it.

Chad
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
* 31-Oct-2023(#136)
loztdogs wrote:
> Lunar wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity those that are pro gun reform; what is/has been your relationship
> with firearms? Grew up around them, owned one etc..?
>

I was maybe 10 first time I shot a firearm. I was into trap shooting when I was younger and went hunting a few times. My dad has probably 200 guns. I own 6 guns but have only 1 in my possession (rest are in my dads gun room). I know 5 people who have committed suicide. I know 3 people who have been murdered with a gun. I know at least 3 people that were shot non-fatally on accident. I don’t know anyone that has saved their life or the life of another with a gun. I bet those sort of numbers are really common.
Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
31-Oct-2023(#137)
Chad wrote:
> I know 5 people who have committed suicide. I know 3 people who have been murdered with a gun. I know at least
> 3 people that were shot non-fatally on accident. I don’t know anyone that has saved
> their life or the life of another with a gun. I bet those sort of numbers are really
> common.

This is interesting. Were the 5 people who committed suicide by shooting themselves?


loztdogs
GameTZ Gold Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
31-Oct-2023(#138)
For those that shared, thanks for sharing. Personally I have never had an unhealthy relationship with firearms. so it does guve me a different perspective. I grew up in a small farm town in N. CA before urban sprawl made it unrecognizable. My father hunted. Mainly bow but owned rifles. Infact I have his old rifle in my safe. He also carried a 9mm when we camped. I think the first firearm I ever shot was a 12guage at my uncles cattle ranch when I was like 12. That’s my first memory anyway. I was always brought up to respect firearms and was told repeatedly they are not toys. I don’t ever recall being in a situation where I saw anyone of any age mishandling a firearm. Even when we shot our BB guns if we were caught horse playing I’d get a whooping for sure.

Joined the military at 18 shipped off the following month of graduating H.S. Was deployed over seas a couple times. As a coo you always carried and you always practiced safe firearm handling, or you’d get a whooping.

I enjoy the hobby, I find the range to be relaxing. I even like field stripping and cleaning peaceful. But when they are not in use they are locked up. I do conceal carry when I go hiking and out with the fam. But I also follow all rules and regulations. Meaning, for example, I don’t carry to places that serve alcohol in premise whether I’m partaking or not… and other such scenarios.



Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader
* 31-Oct-2023(#139)
A guy I worked with lived outside of town and hunted deer. He may have had other weapons besides his hunting rifle. One night he came home drunk, and knowing his wife was home alone decided to have a little fun and scare her into thinking someone was breaking in. She shot through the front door and hit him in the gut. He lived, but it easily could have gone the other way.

My mom was in a local restaurant when a guy came in to confront his girlfriend who was a waitress there. He shot her in front of everyone. Fortunately, he didn't shoot any other patrons that day, or I (and many others) could have lost their loved ones. The police arrived quickly, and the first officer lived only because his vest protected his vital areas.

My sister lived in the county. One day a strange car pulled into the driveway and a guy got out an tried to break through her front door. She immediately called 911 and shouted that she had called and that she had a gun (which she didn't). The sheriff arrived with a few minutes, but the guy had left. She bought a gun after that incident, but never had another incident where she might have needed it.

Many years ago a woman at church had to take out a restraining order against her ex-husband. She also bought a gun and learned how to use it properly. She didn't need it until last year. She fosters dogs for the local humane society and had brought home a pitbull mix. Everything was fine for several days, and then in the middle of the night the dog went crazy and attacked her. It tore her up pretty bad before she was able to get her gun and shoot it.
DarkFact
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 31-Oct-2023(#140)
Just heard someone I hung out with occasionally in my after-school years (he hosted some LAN parties out at his place a few times, I made it at least once and he's been someone I've seen at a few parties since) was just stopped from carrying out his plans to, apparently, erase his rock climbing group. Drove several hours out of his way with three guns and many, many rounds, made diary posts that cued people in to him potentially hurting or not being okay. Recently was getting over a divorce, had some serious trauma growing up. I don't know if you can come back from that, but I hope he gets help after he serves his due time. Really depressing crap to be woken up to, "Hey, remember this guy?" "Yeah" "Someone showed me this story the other day" "Oh. frown"

That's really gotta shake up the group, honestly, these are sorta support groups in their own way, to know someone in the group didn't reach out for help but instead wanted to hurt everyone is some spooky crap. Glad they're okay if nothing else.
Sun
GameTZ Subscriber Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7) Has Written 5 Reviews
31-Oct-2023(#141)
DarkFact wrote:
> Just heard someone I hung out with occasionally in my after-school years (he hosted
> some LAN parties out at his place a few times, I made it at least once and he's been
> someone I've seen at a few parties since) was just stopped from carrying out his
> plans to, apparently, erase his rock climbing group. Drove several hours out of
> his way with three guns and many, many rounds, made diary posts that cued people
> in to him potentially hurting or not being okay. Recently was getting over a divorce,
> had some serious trauma growing up. I don't know if you can come back from that,
> but I hope he gets help after he serves his due time. Really depressing crap to
> be woken up to, "Hey, remember this guy?" "Yeah" "Someone showed me this story
> the other day" "Oh. frown"
>
> That's really gotta shake up the group, honestly, these are sorta support groups
> in their own way, to know someone in the group didn't reach out for help but instead
> wanted to hurt everyone is some spooky crap. Glad they're okay if nothing else.

Not this guy right? https://www.koin.com/news/oregon/man-accused-of-pl...

This story hits close to home since it's in our state and it's a popular place for climbers. My wife and I climb too, but only indoors.
Chad
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
31-Oct-2023(#142)
Lunar wrote:
> Chad wrote:
>> I know 5 people who have committed suicide. I know 3 people who have been murdered
> with a gun. I know at least
>> 3 people that were shot non-fatally on accident. I don’t know anyone that has
> saved
>> their life or the life of another with a gun. I bet those sort of numbers are
> really
>> common.
>
> This is interesting. Were the 5 people who committed suicide by shooting themselves?
>
>
>
Yeah that's what I meant, I do know a few other suicides that weren't self inflicted gun shots but wasn't counting them.
Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
* 1-Nov-2023(#143)
From today's NY Times:


Perception and reality
American gun violence can feel like an unsolvable problem, with every mass shooting, like last week’s killings in Maine, affirming that the situation is getting worse. But the U.S. has in fact made some progress over the past few decades, enacting policies that have saved lives.

That is the conclusion of a new study by Patrick Sharkey and Megan Kang at Princeton. Stricter gun laws passed by 40 states from 1991 to 2016 reduced gun deaths by nearly 4,300 in 2016, or about 10 percent of the nationwide total. States with stricter laws, such as background checks and waiting periods, consistently had fewer gun deaths, as this chart by my colleague Ashley Wu shows:

image

Sharkey told me that the results had surprised him. He has studied violent crime for years, and did not believe that stricter gun laws had a major effect in reducing it. His new takeaway: “The challenge of gun violence is not intractable, and in fact we have just lived through a period of enormous progress that was driven by public policy.”

The country’s progress on guns may surprise you, too. It certainly surprised me. It’s worth reflecting on why. If the data is clear, why haven’t we heard more about these outcomes? To my mind, the lack of attention shows the narrow view that many of us often take toward gun policy.

The smaller things
The national conversation about gun violence focuses on big federal policy ideas. Activists and pundits often speak about the need for a federal law enacting universal background checks or banning assault weapons. Anything short of action at the national level will fail to make the U.S. as safe as Canada, Europe or Japan, the argument goes.

It’s true that guns kill many more people in the U.S. than in other rich countries, and America will likely remain an outlier for the foreseeable future. But the study by Sharkey and Kang shows that changes at the state level can have an effect. Even policies that seem limited, like safety-training requirements or age restrictions, add up.

“There’s no single policy that is going to eliminate the flow or circulation of guns within and across states,” Sharkey said. “But the idea is these kinds of regulations accumulate.”

After all, America’s gun problem is rooted in easy access to firearms. In every country, people get into arguments, hold racist views or suffer from mental health issues. But when these problems turn violent, quick access to guns makes that violence much more likely to become lethal.

Anything that adds barriers to picking up a firearm in such moments reduces deaths, whether it’s incremental state policies or broader federal laws. The new study is one part of a broader line of research demonstrating that point.

Among the many new laws put in place since 1991: California required background checks on private gun sales in 1991, Massachusetts tightened child-access laws in 1998 and Virginia restricted gun ownership by people with mental illnesses in 2008.

After 2016
There is a major caveat to the progress that Sharkey and Kang documented: It seems to have ended.

The new study cuts off in 2016 because later data was not available at the time of the research, Sharkey said. Since 2016, many states have loosened their gun laws, in some cases because Supreme Court rulings have forced them to do so. And firearms sales have surged, particularly during the Covid pandemic.

Congress did pass a narrow gun control law last year that extended background checks and funded anti-violence policies, and some states have continued tightening gun laws. On net, though, U.S. gun laws have become looser in the past seven years.

Gun deaths have increased over the same period, and mass shootings have become more common. These trends — a rise in deaths, looser laws and increased firearm purchases — are likely related, Sharkey said. He pointed out that the six states that had weakened their gun laws from 1991 to 2016 appeared to have experienced more gun deaths than other factors suggested they should have.

As more states have loosened their laws in recent years, they have set themselves up for more gun deaths. “If states take basic steps to regulate guns, it will save thousands and thousands of lives,” Sharkey said. The opposite is also true.



DarkFact
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 1-Nov-2023(#144)
Sun wrote:
>
> This story hits close to home since it's in our state and it's a popular place for
> climbers. My wife and I climb too, but only indoors.


Yeah, that's him. He's from Michigan, went to school in Battle Creek which wasn't my neck of the woods necessarily but he was close enough that we hung out a few times, went to some LAN parties together. One of them was actually out at his house, beautiful spot in the woods

Four weapons, btw, mea culpa. Jesus. Watched the video and saw his face and heard his voice. Man...
Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader
1-Nov-2023(#145)
Lunar wrote:

>

“If states take basic steps to regulate guns, it will save thousands and thousands of lives,” Sharkey said. The opposite is also true.
>

The problem with making laws at the state level is the current make up the Supreme Court. They are declaring many state gun regulations unconstitutional.

"The Supreme Court’s 6-3 decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen is a devastating decision for anyone who cares about reducing gun violence."

"It massively expands the scope of the Second Amendment, abandons more than a decade of case law governing which gun laws are permitted by the Constitution, and replaces this case law with a new legal framework that, as Justice Stephen Breyer writes in dissent, “imposes a task on the lower courts that judges cannot easily accomplish.”"

https://www.vox.com/2022/6/23/23180205/supreme-cou...
Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
1-Nov-2023(#146)
Yea, I agree it should be something on the federal level. But considering the make up of our congress, it's a perpetual uphill battle and that's putting it mildly. State level is better than nothing I suppose.

benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
1-Nov-2023(#147)
Lunar wrote:
> Yea, I agree it should be something on the federal level. But considering the make
> up of our congress, it's a perpetual uphill battle and that's putting it mildly.
> State level is better than nothing I suppose.

No because then it goes to the Supreme Court where it is tossed out and national precedent is set.

It needs to be on the constitutional level. Millions of people need to tell their congressional representatives that this is an important issue. Work on getting it done or we will throw you out and elect someone who will.

incubus421
450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
1-Nov-2023(#148)
For those wondering if policy changes work:
image
Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
* 1-Nov-2023(#149)
benstylus wrote:
>
> No because then it goes to the Supreme Court where it is tossed out and national
> precedent is set.
>
> It needs to be on the constitutional level. Millions of people need to tell their
> congressional representatives that this is an important issue. Work on getting it
> done or we will throw you out and elect someone who will.

Perfect is the enemy of the good. As I said if we can't even get the next budget agreed on, another looming government shutdown in 2 weeks, I'll take state level, federal level, and anything in between in terms of gun control. Defeating the ultra conservative Supreme Court will take another lifetime and dozens of presidential elections. Elections have consequences. And countless lives will inevitably be lost in the interim, let's save as many as we can.

Lunar
GameTZ Subscriber 950 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (8)
1-Nov-2023(#150)
Nice @incubus421 that's a good way to highlight the difference. Talking points be saying liberal cities are hellholes...

DarkFact
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 1-Nov-2023(#151)
I mean they are, it's just that there's less countryside bumpkins blowing each other away over disagreements. Also important to note that a lot of the blue states at the bottom of the chart are hyper-dense and do not attract gun owners by design. So it's sorta true, but also sorta bullcrap.
Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader
2-Nov-2023(#152)
benstylus wrote:
|
>
> It needs to be on the constitutional level. Millions of people need to tell their congressional representatives that this is an important issue. Work on getting it done or we will throw you out and elect someone who will.
>
>
Republicans sold their souls to the NRA years ago and any GOP Representative who even hints they might vote for gun control is the one who will be voted out in the primary. The voters are less influential in picking their Representatives than the local party who picks the candidates that they present to the voters.

I recently read that less than 20 of the Representatives in the House actually come from districts that could go to either party. Gerrymandering has been so effective that the House is going to be highly partisan (and therefore ineffective) for a long time.
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
2-Nov-2023(#153)
Typically if you are eligible to vote in the general election you are eligible to vote in a primary. Some primaries are locked to party affiliation, but you can choose what party to be in. Just because you are a member of one party doesn't mean you always have to vote the party line either.

We can't just pretend we have no voice over the candidates who are chosen.

incubus421
450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
2-Nov-2023(#154)
DarkFact wrote:
> I mean they are, it's just that there's less countryside bumpkins blowing each other
> away over disagreements. Also important to note that a lot of the blue states at
> the bottom of the chart are hyper-dense and do not attract gun owners by design.
> So it's sorta true, but also sorta bullcrap.

Yes, you could say less people are shot in rural areas, because way less people are there. Less population size = less of [any thing or event]. By this logic, you could say any of the following:

Less people die of cancer in rural areas.
Less people get in car accidents in rural areas.
Less people get divorced in rural areas

or we can spin it the other way...

Less people go to school in rural areas.
Less people own homes in rural areas.
Less people know how to drive in rural areas.

Are all of these statements true? Sure, but it's not an accurate way to represent data.

benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
2-Nov-2023(#155)
That's why they are per capita rates, not just the overall deaths. To account for the difference between heavily populated urban areas and more spread out rural areas.


Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader
2-Nov-2023(#156)
benstylus wrote:
> Typically if you are eligible to vote in the general election you are eligible to vote in a primary. Some primaries are locked to party affiliation, but you can choose
> what party to be in. Just because you are a member of one party doesn't mean you always have to vote the party line either.
>
> We can't just pretend we have no voice over the candidates who are chosen.
>
Unless a candidate has a lot of backing, they have little chance of winning a primary - let alone a general election. Politicians used to be referred to as public servants, but elections at every level have become more about who the party can get elected than who is the best person to serve the public. The local and state party organizations pick a candidate that fits a certain profile and supports them. Local elections are important because most career politicians start in local government and move up, but the party only continues to support them if they prove continued loyalty to the party line. The biggest fear of any Senator or Representative is that their own party will support another candidate in the primary. As Cheney and Kinzinger demonstrated, bucking the party line is a political death sentence.

For (at least) the 2026 election, there was a website you could go to and take a survey of how you felt on the issues. An algorithm would then tell you which candidate was most aligned with your responses. However, since the debut of televised debates, voters have been swayed by image over substance. Who looked more poised in the front of the camera and who looked more nervous? Who looked like a guy you could sit down and have a beer with? Who got off the best zingers?

A lot of voting is still indoctrination. Our family has always voted "fill in the blank party" because they always believed that party aligned with their beliefs and the kids continue the tradition.

DarkFact
400 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 4 Reviews
* 2-Nov-2023(#157)
incubus421 wrote:
> DarkFact wrote:
>> I mean they are, it's just that there's less countryside bumpkins blowing each
> other
>> away over disagreements. Also important to note that a lot of the blue states
> at
>> the bottom of the chart are hyper-dense and do not attract gun owners by design.
>> So it's sorta true, but also sorta bullcrap.
>
> Yes, you could say less people are shot in rural areas, because way less people are
> there. Less population size = less of [any thing or event]. By this logic, you
> could say any of the following:
>
> Less people die of cancer in rural areas.
> Less people get in car accidents in rural areas.
> Less people get divorced in rural areas
>
> or we can spin it the other way...
>
> Less people go to school in rural areas.
> Less people own homes in rural areas.
> Less people know how to drive in rural areas.
>
> Are all of these statements true? Sure, but it's not an accurate way to represent
> data.
>
>

Not what I said or meant. I meant there were less country bumpkins blowing each other away in New York, but it's still a craphole. And said "they by design and legislation repulse gun ownership and second amendment advocacy, so I'm not shocked to see they're at the bottom of the list for gun activity". Not that one necessarily guarantees the other; I haven't looked at the data, but I suspect there's significantly more gun violence in schools than at gun ranges, for instance, even though guns aren't allowed on school grounds and are promoted at ranges. I wouldn't bet my life on it, it's just a hunch.

Topic   So another shooting has rocked the US...