MrBean
11-Apr-2023(#1)Hey all, apologies for the inbound rant, just frustrated and haven't spoken out on this sans a few comments here and there.
I write this from a place of simply trying to better understand. This continues to happen, and honestly at times it makes me want to bail on the site. I've gotten to the point that I don't even attempt to (or rarely) sell anything here anymore because of this behavior. I was reluctant to post last night, and within minutes, was reassured that my original stance was right - don't even bother.
Most of us are around the same age, been here for quite some time, and don’t partake in this etiquette. Yet, there's unfortunately a population of users here that seem to think otherwise, and it's one of the core problems that drives good people away.
Why is it, time and time again, that people get shun/negged, when they attempt to sell something at less than 800% off? We're all adults, we all look at eBay and other platforms, we know the price and value of items/time.
Sadly, we've seen this for years here. That someone posts something for sale, and it's a good deal ... but they get crap on because there's this I don’t know, sense of entitlement, that they should get an even better deal because GTZ? Sure, we're a community of gamers that look out and help one another, no doubt! Many here go above and beyond to do more for one another, which is why this site is amazing. Yet at the end of day, be realistic and look at the larger picture, before passing judgement and setting false expectations for yourself, and others.
Two examples just from this week.
1) User is selling a Steam deck, brand new, for $75 (11%) off. The first four reactions are negs.
2) I post a Zelda Pro Controller, asking for +$5 for time/gas/re-packaging and cost savings to you to avoid eBay, and I get called out publicly and privately.
Taking #2 further, as clearly, I'm in a bit of defense mode. I have, on multiple occasions, paid very handsomely (even above what was asked), for hard to find/sold out/rare items, as it's still a win for me being that it's cheaper than eBay. I recognize you could have sold it for more, and I appreciate that you're doing me a solid. Further, I've gone above and beyond to tip people for their time/service/etc. as it's not hard to see it's a win-win for both parties being that they don't have to deal with eBay/fee's/etc. and I'm getting it cheaper than eBay. Finally, I've sold many items at cost, and even given stuff away free. Yet, I attempt to ask for a whopping $5 to save you money, and everything goes out the window and I'm a bad person.
This is not the first time that this has happened either. Merely asking for a few bucks to use my packaging materials, my gas, my time, and reducing your cost of entry ... should be very much so inbounds, and expected, if you're ultimately getting a good deal at the expense of someone else. Last I checked, we're all adults, and time is money. I have no idea your financial situation, but I'd be willing to wager, most are above minimum wage here. Meaning, even that 30-60 minutes of your time to pack, print a label, drive to local store, drive back, etc. - is costing you money. For another to expect that their time and resources are free, is straight out wrong, and naive. Will that $5 make or break any of us? Absolutely not, but it's more the principal of the matter to reward and take care of those that take care of you.
What am I missing here? Why is there a stigma that some of the community thinks they should be getting everything free or massively discounted to the point that the other party is losing out? We all know the other person can go make more money if they want, so at least reward them for helping you out, even if they're not asking for it. If we continue this behavior in any of these scenario's, we're going to lose out on good people bringing us good deals as they'll simply favor selling elsewhere to avoid the pettiness exhibited here.
To those of you that don't partake in this mentality and behavior, you're awesome, and that is why we're still here. I truly appreciate each one of you that have helped me personally and others! I love seeing great deals go to great people!
mcorrado
11-Apr-2023(#2)I've said this before, but you use to be able to sell things based on VGPC prices, and that was considered fair. Now, you need to discount like 20% off that.
I've just started to sell my games on ebay, and get well above VGPC and have had zero issues. It's unfortunate, but that's what this site has become. U less you're selling a newer release, or trading a newer release, you will be nagged for not taking a loss.
I don't get it. I think it explains why this site is slowly losing users and is more of a forum site than an actual trading site.
You easily aren't getting paid fairly for your materials, gas, time, etc if you're only getting 5 bucks. People should be happy with that deal if they really want it.
ued222
11-Apr-2023(#3)I feel you can hide replies and scores for a reason if you want to avoid that.
I tried helping out the community by selling PS5s at cost on more then one occasion but I couldn't find anyone to sell to which is a good thing. I believe the community has access or the ability to get items without resorting to Ebay scalpers in certain situations and has other channels to buy goods.
Honestly, I would have probably been a bigger trader of games given how I buy things currently but find shipping things to be time consuming and costly as you mentioned. Me buying a bubble mailer and postage really results in me doing less physical trades sadly.
MrBean
11-Apr-2023(#4)@mcorrado - completely agree!
I don't think many are here to try and make massive profits. When people have crazy items on their hands, they'll probably go elsewhere. We've had a long standing history of being so awesome to one another and selling at value or just a minor uptick. Some of the pickups I've had over the years here, have been so amazing, that I would never find elsewhere! Even when I have overpaid (sometimes even double!) on MSRP here, it's STILL cheaper than buying on eBay!
Back in the day, before the explosion of retro gaming values, there were so many that simply wanted one another to experience a game that they didn't care about anything else except bringing joy to others. While that still can (and does) happen, reality is, the world and our hobby, has changed quite a bit over the years.
I don't know when it happened, or if it was always there and I simply overlooked, that folks seem to think time and resources aren't valuable, and that you should take a loss on a sale.
Take care of those, that take care of you! I will still do what I can, where I can, to help out others and I know many of you will too.
This is still my favorite place on the internet, just want to see us treat one another better and with more realistic expectations.
nonamesleft
* 11-Apr-2023(#6)This site is one of my favorites. As a whole it's really great. This is making me think of a Chinese idiom I heard. I went to look it up: 瑕不掩瑜. It's something like "a flaw in a piece of jade doesn't mar the entire thing."
The actions of some people shouldn't be a reflection on the entire site. Many people have left the site over the years, but many have stayed. I like to believe that there are those here that see the value in GTZ and choose to stay regardless of whatever flaws may have arisen in the past. Occasionally things happen, and we can't control what other users might say in a particular situation, but I think it's worth staying. This is a great place.
Directly relating to your controller post, hey, if I wanted a hard to find item and someone here was willing to go out of their way to get it for me and sell it pretty much at cost, the person selling it shouldn't even need to ask for a tip. Reciprocation is important and should be an obvious thing.
Anxiouz
11-Apr-2023(#7)I don't disagree with any of the above. But my take is that if you want the fair price for something, it's going to naturally take longer to sell, and people always want a deal. And both of those things add drama.
But the negging. I do hate this and think people who aren't even interested in the item(s) are negging just because it's not half price or something.
Fullmetal
11-Apr-2023(#9)Its been that way as long as ive been here, 15 years or so now i believe. Cant let yourself care too much
Staraang
11-Apr-2023(#10)As long as I've been here I've found people can't help but comment on marketplace posts in some way. Either by scoring or by writing a post. I think the best thing to do is as bill said: disable scoring. Some go so far as to disable posting and ask people to PM to inquire about an item. I think that can be effective too though I'm not sure if you can bump the post yourself if you disable posting.
It has to be annoying to sellers though for people to constantly offer their $0.02. Worse is when the thread gets totally derailed into some tangent.
BloodPuppetX
* 11-Apr-2023(#11)I think Bean did have scoring off in his topic last night. He was just compelled to make this topic after someone called him out in another thread for "scalping". (Which clearly wasn't the case. Apparently, he got a PM as well, going by the OP.)
That other user usually isn't negative, for what it's worth.
MrBean
* 11-Apr-2023(#12)bill wrote:> I think you should try disabling scoring when you create a marketplace topic.
Oh I typically do! Sadly, it goes beyond the scoring when people weigh in and ultimately attempt to make someone look/feel bad for their already generous offer. Note that I'm not making this all about me. We've all see it with others. It's an unfortunate reality and personally I'm just exhausted by it. Clearly crap gets to me more than others, just frustrating to see a small/tight knit community not working to better one another vs. being at odds. Yeah yeah ... I'm a drama queen, I get it
.
There's no fixing this, it's how people will react, just trying to state that I think it's one of the core reasons that we've driven people away from the site and I'd hate for us to further lose good people ya know?
bill
11-Apr-2023(#14)I didn't realize this may have been more about the scalping comment by @KCPenguins in that other Zelda topic. I wouldn't call you a drama queen, but it does seem like you're overreacting. It's OK to do that. I'm not holding it against you. Stuff gets under my skin sometimes too.
People are gonna disagree about prices, that's pretty much universal across all human civilization.
"scalping" is like this uber insult here, but it seems kind of absurd too. Aren't we all trying to make a little profit where we can...
Honestly, I clicked ignore on that TotK topic recently because it mostly became people posting about special editions and spoons. I'm interested in playing the game, but I've never been a collector. It makes me a little nauseous to see people froth at the mouth when Nintendo creates these gimmicks. Maybe it's this hyper collector attitude that's driving people away and causing us to lose good people!
See what I did there? A lot of these "problem with the site" topics are subjective.
I think it would have been better to shrug off the scalping comment and keep your sales topic up... see how it goes. Maybe it would have sold. You just need one person to say yes to sell something. Or just use Ebay, whatever. I use it sometimes too, most of us do and have for decades.
I don't think this bad experience is especially related to the Steam Deck negging. Linking bad experiences like this to the site's decline is not especially accurate or helpful in my opinion. Also, for the love of donuts, lets not stir up that (GTZDOOM) hoary old chestnut.
I hope the tone of what I'm saying here comes off respectfully. That's how I mean it.
nonamesleft
11-Apr-2023(#15)bill wrote: > Honestly, I clicked ignore on that TotK topic recently because it mostly became people
> posting about special editions and spoons. I'm interested in playing the game
I hear you about the Zelda cutlery. Don't worry. There will probably be less spoon/fork talk and more gameplay talk when the game comes out
MrBean
* 11-Apr-2023(#16)Always respect, and appreciate, your opinion bill!
I've straight out admitted to the site here that I've scalped before, largley to help pay my cost of admission. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! I've made out in the past (not here, eBay) for sure, but I also try to help out where I can to this community. I've also vastly overpaid here for a few items, because I was still getting a better price than eBay.
haha, the spoons! Agreed on being subjective, for sure. I just truly have a hard time understanding why people go after others when they're already getting a good deal, and they know it. That Steam deck was one of many that I've seen go down like that (in that case, purely scoring), but like really? Do people here truly think they should get an even bigger/better discount vastly above anywhere else they buy from? Just doesn't make sense but to me, but in the same vein ... I shouldn't care so much.
I think we can ultimately blame Facebook Marketplace. You list a $100 item, for $50, and everyone offers you $3.50 and expects you to jump at it because everyone lives in their own bubble thinking they should get everything they want, how they want it, at their price. Maybe I've been blind (and my memory sucks), I just don't remember folks being like that here until recent years.
MrBean
11-Apr-2023(#17)nonamesleft wrote:> bill wrote:
>> Honestly, I clicked ignore on that TotK topic recently because it mostly became
> people
>> posting about special editions and spoons. I'm interested in playing the game
>
>
I hear you about the Zelda cutlery. Don't worry. There will probably be less
> spoon/fork talk and more gameplay talk when the game comes out
I still need these ... hahaha
MrBean
11-Apr-2023(#18)benstylus wrote:> Even if your price is so low that people are fighting over trying to PM or send an
> offer first, you still will get people who be like:
>
haha, absolutely this!
We all know what eBay charges, and even if you sell lower ... you're the bad guy because it's not what they want to pay.
nonamesleft
11-Apr-2023(#19)MrBean wrote:> nonamesleft wrote:
>> bill wrote:
> |>> Honestly, I clicked ignore on that TotK topic recently because it mostly became
>> people
> |>> posting about special editions and spoons. I'm interested in playing the game
>>
>>
I hear you about the Zelda cutlery. Don't worry. There will probably be
> less
>> spoon/fork talk and more gameplay talk when the game comes out
>
> I still need these ... hahaha
:) Same. I want to actually use them for food.
DarkFact
* 11-Apr-2023(#20)mcorrado wrote:> I've said this before, but you use to be able to sell things based on VGPC prices,
> and that was considered fair. Now, you need to discount like 20% off that.
>
> I've just started to sell my games on ebay, and get well above VGPC and have had
> zero issues. It's unfortunate, but that's what this site has become. U less you're
> selling a newer release, or trading a newer release, you will be nagged for not taking
> a loss.
>
> I don't get it. I think it explains why this site is slowly losing users and is more
> of a forum site than an actual trading site.
>
> You easily aren't getting paid fairly for your materials, gas, time, etc if you're
> only getting 5 bucks. People should be happy with that deal if they really want it.
If you want VGPC prices, sell on ebay (faster, with no interaction), pay your fees (and taxes) and have a nice day, otherwise it's pretty simple to understand we all expect a bit of meeting in the middle to avoid having to do all that. Anyone who regularly moves stuff quickly on the site understands, and all the buyers are immediately more appreciative to these listings. I don't think there was ever a time on the site where people looked at ebay/VGPC evaluations and weren't expecting sellers to carve fees out of the final price, actually in my estimation over a few years here it seems pretty much expected. Nobody wants to pay ebay prices, they could just go to ebay for that, usually with more pictures and always with more protection.
As a seller you aren't entitled to anything, as a buyer you aren't entitled to anything. Agree on a price and pend a trade, lower your price if it isn't moving or don't sell it. Easy.
Chad
11-Apr-2023(#22)I haven’t traded or sold on here for years so my opinion means Jack crap.
That being said, your time, gas, packing materials don’t matter. If something goes for $100 shipped on eBay, I’d expect it to be around $90 shipped here, $85 on the “discount” side of the spectrum, and $95 to be over pricing.
MrBean
11-Apr-2023(#23)Chad wrote:> I haven’t traded or sold on here for years so my opinion means Jack crap.
>
> That being said, your time, gas, packing materials don’t matter. If something goes
> for $100 shipped on eBay, I’d expect it to be around $90 shipped here, $85 on the
> “discount” side of the spectrum, and $95 to be over pricing.
I'd agree with this, but actually a bit cheaper. I always tend to factor that eBay + PP are gonna snag 20%.
This use case (among others), is the idea of money for your time/resources, at a mere $5 above cost - should be expected/inferred and not requested. My pedastool dialogue was out of frustration for being chastised for requesting said $5.
benstylus
11-Apr-2023(#25)HEHEHATE wrote:.
> I think the one change i'd love to see on sales is all sales posts must have a public
> response to establish order interest and inquiry, but thats really my two cents on
> this.
There are some people I would rather trade with than others. Having a public established order just means people will get butthurt if you choose to go out of order.
Chad wrote:> That being said, your time, gas, packing materials don’t matter. If something goes
> for $100 shipped on eBay, I’d expect it to be around $90 shipped here, $85 on the
> “discount” side of the spectrum, and $95 to be over pricing.
Agreed with the first part of the comment. The folks on ebay use packing materials, gas, time, etc. too. All that is baked into the price.
With regards to the second part, I wouldn't say starting at 95% of ebay value is overpricing. If you expect it to sell at that price maybe, but I often start prices high because I know people want to offer less so they feel like they won. Then when they offer an amount close to what I actually planned to sell it for, they feel good about getting a discount and I feel good about not taking a huge loss. Everyone is happy and everyone wins.
I just don't worry about negs. They really mean nothing unless you rack up a dozen or so on one post.
Sleigh
* 11-Apr-2023(#27)Pros to Gametz:
No taxes, immediate 6% or recorded. Remember the taxes go both ways for buying/selling, if something sells for $40 on ebay the buyer's paying about $42 so I don't necessarily buy the whole "it must be drastically cheaper than ebay" thing though obviously a bit cheaper is nice.
No ebay fees as a seller
Get to foster some repeat customers/traders and trust, kind of like how an IRL private game shop would be versus going to Walmart with a different cashier and inflexible prices every time.
Negatives to Gametz:
No protection. I've never even come close to scammed (though one time someone pended a trade with me the night before, then canceled a bit into the morning ... I was supposed to send in the morning which 19 times out of 20 I would have, but an emergency made me go watch my nieces overnight so I lucked out I guess) but you can see the BTRs around, it happens, a lot of OGs still have outstanding BTRs.
People really do seem like vultures sometimes ... either offering negative opinions about selling something or asking for a mile when you give them an inch, or just not responding after you quote them -20% off ebay.
Audience is *way* less wide than ebay. Probably in the tens or hundreds of thousands level of magnitude. Seems like a large portion of topics I see end up unsold even if the price is right. On ebay you just list it and keep it listed perpetually, someone comes along that's right for it eventually.
On the flip side, the selection's also a lot less wide. That said ebay sucks too, things are overpriced on there plenty, especially newer games which go for practically MSRP (before fees).
Seems like a large portion of topics are for either super expensive stuff, or for old sports games or junk like a garage sale. People don't really seem to trade new games as often, usually it just ends up being people saying AAA games for $10 off MSRP (which is a good deal, get around tax too) after they're done with it.
Shipping's so expensive compared to the hay day that most trades aren't practical. Trades are just numbers now, XX% off of price charts. I remember in high school shipping to people on here with my lunch money for the day, $1.50 with tracking/insurance, now it's like a $7 surcharge so how can you *not* want an ebayer to pay the postage for you?
Honestly though, I don't even think it's just post-pandemic pricing or anything, I think the internet itself is making it tough to do oldschool business. The world wide garage sale is right there and we basically all have a price checker. I've noticed an evolution of people being more efficient with online tools in general over the years, as people have wised up and things get homogenized it gets a bit boring and some things aren't practical anymore. I know a cool guy on here who seems like he has a lot of trades going on such that he can do the classic trading of beans into a telescope eventually, but that's probably 1 in 10,000 these days.
mcorrado
11-Apr-2023(#28)DarkFact wrote:> mcorrado wrote:
>> I've said this before, but you use to be able to sell things based on VGPC prices,
>> and that was considered fair. Now, you need to discount like 20% off that.
>>
>> I've just started to sell my games on ebay, and get well above VGPC and have had
>> zero issues. It's unfortunate, but that's what this site has become. U less you're
>> selling a newer release, or trading a newer release, you will be nagged for not
> taking
>> a loss.
>>
>> I don't get it. I think it explains why this site is slowly losing users and is
> more
>> of a forum site than an actual trading site.
>>
>> You easily aren't getting paid fairly for your materials, gas, time, etc if you're
>> only getting 5 bucks. People should be happy with that deal if they really want
> it.
>
> If you want VGPC prices, sell on ebay (faster, with no interaction), pay your fees
> (and taxes) and have a nice day, otherwise it's pretty simple to understand we all
> expect a bit of meeting in the middle to avoid having to do all that. Anyone who
> regularly moves stuff quickly on the site understands, and all the buyers are immediately
> more appreciative to these listings. I don't think there was ever a time on the
> site where people looked at ebay/VGPC evaluations and weren't expecting sellers to
> carve fees out of the final price, actually in my estimation over a few years here
> it seems pretty much expected. Nobody wants to pay ebay prices, they could just
> go to ebay for that, usually with more pictures and always with more protection.
>
> As a seller you aren't entitled to anything, as a buyer you aren't entitled to anything.
> Agree on a price and pend a trade, lower your price if it isn't moving or don't
> sell it. Easy.
You can easily go back to my original sales on here and see for the first few years people paid eBay prices for older games given the quality.
Vintage games are all about condition, and the VGPC listed price isn't a fair representation of a games value if you have something in excellent condition.
All the games I've sold on ebay were above VGPC prices, and I netted more even after the fees. Couldn't sell them here at VGPC price. Current Gen items have a fairly obvious price point, I'm not arguing those.
People paid ebay prices here because of the community, and instead of putting money in ebay pocket, you were helping a fellow trader here.
If you want to bring up "protection" that's a fairly weak argument. Regardless of the sale price, you have the same protection on this site. Doesn't matter if it's $10 or $1,000.
DarkFact
* 11-Apr-2023(#29)Mmm, no. I don't get my thing on ebay, I get my money back. It's a little different. Half y'all require F&F to even pend.
mcorrado
11-Apr-2023(#30)DarkFact wrote:> Mmm, no. I don't get my thing on ebay, I get my money back. It's a little different.
> Half y'all require F&F to even pend.
Thank you for reiterating how there is zero protection on this site like I said. Yet, I'm sure you have bought something on this site.
DarkFact
11-Apr-2023(#31)Never. Wait, have you? LOL
SwiftJAB
11-Apr-2023(#32)DarkFact wrote:> Never. Wait, have you? LOL
Your trade history says differently
DarkFact
11-Apr-2023(#33)Insecure piece of crap site, I got hacked. THIS IS WHY WE NEED WEB3 BTW
DarkFact
11-Apr-2023(#35)Or path tracing ffs
nonamesleft
11-Apr-2023(#36)@Sleigh What did you by "trading of beans in a telescope?"
Tried looking it up, beans in a telescope, couldn't find results.
KillerKlown
(abandoned)11-Apr-2023(#37)I agree with you, but many users here try to sell at or over Ebay prices.
I'm unsure the average person realizes all of the fees associated with Ebay.
Like after all the fees and shipping I'm lucky to make 50% on the closed auction price.
So if I sell something for $20 I'm only making $10.
If I sell on here for $20 I'll make at least $15.... Especially if the buyer is willing to pay with gifted Paypal.
Ebay now charges tax.
So imo, items here should be offered lower than Ebay. I'm not saying considerably, but probably like 20%.
I've stopped trading/selling items on here simply because shipping has gotten too expensive.
The same goes for Ebay.
Otaku100
11-Apr-2023(#38)DarkFact wrote:> If you want VGPC prices, sell on ebay (faster, with no interaction), pay your fees
> (and taxes) and have a nice day, otherwise it's pretty simple to understand we all
> expect a bit of meeting in the middle to avoid having to do all that. Anyone who
> regularly moves stuff quickly on the site understands, and all the buyers are immediately
> more appreciative to these listings. I don't think there was ever a time on the
> site where people looked at ebay/VGPC evaluations and weren't expecting sellers to
> carve fees out of the final price, actually in my estimation over a few years here
> it seems pretty much expected. Nobody wants to pay ebay prices, they could just
> go to ebay for that, usually with more pictures and always with more protection.
This is basically how I feel.
I prefer to offer any games on here first at a discount price, and whatever doesn't sell I'll ask a higher price for elsewhere. I also expect a cheaper price when buying though, otherwise I don't see any reason not to just buy off eBay/Amazon.
Datanuke
11-Apr-2023(#39)I don't do a lot of selling these days so most of my experience has been as a buyer. As a buyer, I don't look at "how much is the seller saving by not selling on Ebay or wherever." For me, it boils down to what it's going to cost me and if I trust the transaction. If I can buy the item for $100 on Ebay and it's for sale for $100 on GTZ, I don't get miffed about having another option. Nobody is forcing me either way
In some cases when I might be worried about authenticity or condition of an item, I'd be willing to pay more on GTZ. This community has done a pretty good job of gatekeeping bootlegs
Staraang
11-Apr-2023(#40)FWIW, I would pay near eBay prices for a high-priced item from a trusted user here over buying it on eBay.
KillerKlown
(abandoned)11-Apr-2023(#41)Staraang wrote:> FWIW, I would pay near eBay prices for a high-priced item from a trusted user here
> over buying it on eBay.
My argument is that Ebay prices aren't "real value." Once you realize fees take up 30-50% of the profit the true value is lower.
Just because it's $20 on Ebay doesn't mean the actual value is $20.
Ebay isn't a Beckett and two items can sell for two vastly different values based on seller ratings, time/date of the auction ending, location, etc...
Someone is currently is selling a PS5 on here for $510. I can buy it cheaper on Target.com right now with my Redcard.
If this person sold this on Ebay, they'd loose over $100 in seller fees/shipping/taxes.
What's the purpose of listing something here for retail price?
Porksta
11-Apr-2023(#42)If items sell on eBay for $x that is the current price. People are paying that much for the item. They don't stop to think about the seller fees. They pay what they think is fair value.
benstylus
11-Apr-2023(#43)KillerKlown wrote:> Staraang wrote:
>> FWIW, I would pay near eBay prices for a high-priced item from a trusted user
> here
>> over buying it on eBay.
>
> My argument is that Ebay prices aren't "real value." Once you realize fees take up
> 30-50% of the profit the true value is lower.
>
For most categories ebay fees are 13% to 15% of the total (including tax and shipping), plus $0.30
So unless you are giving free or heavily discounted shipping or selling really cheap items, 50% seems way too high to be believable.
KillerKlown
(abandoned)* 11-Apr-2023(#44)Porksta wrote:> If items sell on eBay for $x that is the current price. People are paying that much
> for the item. They don't stop to think about the seller fees. They pay what they
> think is fair value.
Not necessarily. Around 50% of auctions are Buy It Now auctions where the seller sets the price.
You gotta look at the median price. Like if one copy sells for $100 and one sells for $50 that doesn't make the value $100.
Same with months of the year. Something that sold in December doesn't hold the same value today.
There's also money laundering and fake pricing on Ebay.
You gotta factor in the average price over the last couple of months.
Example: Let's say I have 10 copies of Haunting Ground sealed.....
Every couple of weeks or months I might list one and have a buddy of mine win it at an astronomical price.
That sets the price precedent and will inflate the market price. This happens all of the time in the collectibles market.
It's like the time Mario 64 sold for 1 million on Ebay yet the highest one sold prior with a super high grade was like 40k....
Just because it sold for a mill doesn't make it worth a mill. It just begins to inflate the average market price.
The value is what the average person will pay unless you have a pristine rare copy of something so a price comparison can't easily be made.
That can change the value drastically.
Offering used items on here for the same price as something I can buy right now retail serves no purpose on this site.
You can offer something here for the exact same price as Ebay, but I doubt you're going to get very many offers.
I would purchase on Ebay for the price back guarantee.
Regardless I don't think I've ever downvoted anyone based on pricing.
I think downvotes should be turned off entirely.
KillerKlown
(abandoned)11-Apr-2023(#45)benstylus wrote:> KillerKlown wrote:
>> Staraang wrote:
> |>> FWIW, I would pay near eBay prices for a high-priced item from a trusted user
>> here
> |>> over buying it on eBay.
>>
>> My argument is that Ebay prices aren't "real value." Once you realize fees take
> up
>> 30-50% of the profit the true value is lower.
>>
>
>
>
> For most categories ebay fees are 13% to 15% of the total (including tax and shipping),
> plus $0.30
>
> So unless you are giving free or heavily discounted shipping or selling really cheap
> items, 50% seems way too high to be believable.
>
>
You also need to factor in ink to print shipping label, driving to the post office to drop off the package, shipping materials, etc...
On a $10 item, shipping alone can cost 50% of that. The post office is super picky on what can be shipped media mail.
But just one CD is like $3-$4 now.
That said, when you're selling on Ebay you get a discount on shipping fees. What is it 10-20%? I can't remember.
So that's an advantage I hadn't thought about.
But.... if something is messed up on Ebay you can ship it back free of charge.... They send you a prepaid label. On here there's no protections.
loztdogs
11-Apr-2023(#46)bill wrote:> I didn't realize this may have been more about the scalping comment by @KCPenguins
> in that other Zelda topic. I wouldn't call you a drama queen, but it does seem like
> you're overreacting. It's OK to do that. I'm not holding it against you. Stuff
> gets under my skin sometimes too.
>
> People are gonna disagree about prices, that's pretty much universal across all human
> civilization.
> "scalping" is like this uber insult here, but it seems kind of absurd too. Aren't
> we all trying to make a little profit where we can...
>
> Honestly, I clicked ignore on that TotK topic recently because it mostly became people
> posting about special editions and spoons. I'm interested in playing the game, but
> I've never been a collector. It makes me a little nauseous to see people froth at
> the mouth when Nintendo creates these gimmicks. Maybe it's this hyper collector
> attitude that's driving people away and causing us to lose good people!
>
> See what I did there? A lot of these "problem with the site" topics are subjective.
>
> I think it would have been better to shrug off the scalping comment and keep your
> sales topic up... see how it goes. Maybe it would have sold. You just need one
> person to say yes to sell something. Or just use Ebay, whatever. I use it sometimes
> too, most of us do and have for decades.
>
> I don't think this bad experience is especially related to the Steam Deck negging.
> Linking bad experiences like this to the site's decline is not especially accurate
> or helpful in my opinion. Also, for the love of donuts, lets not stir up that (GTZDOOM)
> hoary old chestnut.
>
> I hope the tone of what I'm saying here comes off respectfully. That's how I mean
> it.
This pretty much sums it up and to add, have a thicker skin.
Gypsy
* 11-Apr-2023(#47)Sleigh wrote:>
>
> Audience is *way* less wide than ebay. Probably in the tens or hundreds of thousands
> level of magnitude. Seems like a large portion of topics I see end up unsold even
> if the price is right. On ebay you just list it and keep it listed perpetually, someone
> comes along that's right for it eventually.
>
>
A lot of really good points and discussions going on here but this is a big one. The userbase here is so small you really don't know if there will be a market for something or not. Even with multiple collectors around, all the people that would be interested here might already have it.
Since the tax change situation I've been working very hard to not sell on eBay. This requires a lot of using a bunch of different places to sell. Most stuff I sell doesn't end up here. I sell Laserdiscs on the laserdisc site. Like everywhere except GTZ to @DarkFact earlier point regular paypal is the expectation here so tax stuff is still at play but the selling fees are a ton less and in this case you are probably getting most of the target audience. I don't want casual eBay buyers that don't understand the format anyway, sounds like a headache. I sell figures on a figure site (the longest any listing has lasted is like a week, with a 100% sale rate). Zero fees there, which is wonderful. Most games I sell at this point it happens through discord. Most stuff just doesn't make it here though I sometimes still make a thread and am pleasantly surprised. I still buy a lot on this site and genuinely enjoy chatting with many of the users here. The repeat buyer pro applies to these other options as well. They all involve having to talk to people to do the deal, which I enjoy over the eBay experience.
loztdogs wrote:>
>
> This pretty much sums it up and to add, have a thicker skin.
>
Also this.
DarkFact
* 11-Apr-2023(#48)Porksta wrote:> If items sell on eBay for $x that is the current price. People are paying that much
> for the item. They don't stop to think about the seller fees. They pay what they
> think is fair value.
That's a very Porksta thing to say. I'll say, when I sell something on ebay, that price is imaginary. The buyer's just paying a price, it's not what they "want" to pay, it's what they pay, and that's not even all they pay; they also pay for taxes on top. You entitled to Sam's cut? We know we're getting closer to 80-75% of that listed price, depending on the category. THAT'S the real money, the whole point of being in a trusted community is to find a way to meet in the middle and come to something amicable, not to squeeze your GTZ bros for every dime you can because "Hey the buyer pays what they pay, so you pay that too". We're on the other side of that fog of war; everyone understands the $100 thing is actually $80 in your pocket, less if you didn't make them pay for shipping. Pretending we don't so you can carve out a couple more bills is kinda fudgein lame. Worst case is you dump it on a mom and pop shop to get 50% of market in cash, "best" case is throw it on ebay and get 70-80% of the listing price and start tallying up your profitable sales for end of year.
VGPC doesn't factor in the nuance that makes up reality, it takes the dumbest, most thoughtless approach to its evaluation: "Final price was this, average equals this" and it makes mistakes allllllll the fudgein time. We're smarter than VGPC, I hope.
All that said, if anyone wants to list something at inflated price, or MSRP plus convenience fee, or 100% VGPC Bible Truth price, that's also a totally valid option. Don't cry about feedback, verbal or otherwise, if it doesn't move as quickly as you'd like.
Staraang
11-Apr-2023(#49)People just spend way too much time opining about prices frankly. I get that if a price is egregious you want to neg or say something to protect your GTZ brethren. Or do the opposite and praise pricing to support a seller. But when it gets nitpicky? Just don’t bother and let the market sort it out.
mcorrado
12-Apr-2023(#50)And Mr. Beans topic got derailed into a pricing wars topic lol.
DarkFact
12-Apr-2023(#51)It's technically on topic.
Tony
* 12-Apr-2023(#52)I think too many people watch shows like Pawn Stars and American Pickers and believe they can negotiate a much lower price by telling the seller that the item isn't worth as much as they're asking. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it. If you don't like the price someone is asking, you are free to pass and wait for one to be sold at a price you like. If you think someone on this site is price gouging or scalping, let it go. You don't need to call them on it. They won't get a buyer unless someone is willing to pay it.
Many years ago I saw a flyer for a book that was going to teach you how to negotiate. It wasn't your typical business seminar type book. It started with the premise that "if you are a nice guy, you are getting taken advantage of (the actual flyer used the F word)". It said this book would teach you how to be a SOB and get what you deserved. Today it would be called something like "How to be a Mega Karen". Through the years I met more than a few people who followed this kind of philosophy. It may work in the short run, but it isn't going to win you any friends and will hurt when you try to do repeat business.
My recommendation: Show some respect. Show some class. Treat other users are you want to be treated.
Joeya2001
12-Apr-2023(#53)KillerKlown wrote:> Staraang wrote:
>> FWIW, I would pay near eBay prices for a high-priced item from a trusted user
> here
>> over buying it on eBay.
>
> My argument is that Ebay prices aren't "real value." Once you realize fees take up
> 30-50% of the profit the true value is lower.
> Just because it's $20 on Ebay doesn't mean the actual value is $20.
> Ebay isn't a Beckett and two items can sell for two vastly different values based
> on seller ratings, time/date of the auction ending, location, etc...
> Someone is currently is selling a PS5 on here for $510. I can buy it cheaper on Target.com
> right now with my Redcard.
> If this person sold this on Ebay, they'd loose over $100 in seller fees/shipping/taxes.
>
> What's the purpose of listing something here for retail price?
>
Lol Beckett, haven’t heard that in quite some time, I use to trade cards on sportscardforums, and when your tried to reference Beckett, they would counter eBay.
Sleigh
12-Apr-2023(#54)nonamesleft wrote:> @Sleigh What did you by "trading of beans in a telescope?"
>
> Tried looking it up, beans in a telescope, couldn't find results.
I'm not actually sure what the real saying is but basically people who can gain trade value just off of their trading skills. Someone who might take a $1 game and off of 50 trades, finding the right people, might walk away with a $1000 game without putting further things into the mix.
There's an episode of The Office where it happens, albeit comically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YllmYoVdfR4 Porksta
12-Apr-2023(#56)Trade-up? The paperclip challenge made this popular.
Joeya2001
* 12-Apr-2023(#57)Porksta wrote:> Trade-up? The paperclip challenge made this popular.
The ultimate trade up is turning a sperm into Elon Musk
Staraang
12-Apr-2023(#58)Tony wrote:> I think too many people watch shows like Pawn Stars and American Pickers and believe
> they can negotiate a much lower price by telling the seller that the item isn't worth
> as much as they're asking. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay you
> for it. If you don't like the price someone is asking, you are free to pass and wait
> for one to be sold at a price you like. If you think someone on this site is price
> gouging or scalping, let it go. You don't need to call them on it. They won't get
> a buyer unless someone is willing to pay it.
The thing that's funny about this critiquing of prices, casting judgement on "gougers", etc. is that a lot of it is cultural. Yes, it's rooted in people's sense of fairness which is a human trait. But if you go to other parts of the world, walk through a market, and try to buy something it's basically guaranteed you're going to be given some insanely high price with the expectation that you'll haggle it down to something reasonable. And nobody takes it personally. At the end of the sale, whether it occurs or not, nobody is judging anyone. The buyer and the seller are not judging one another. Nor are spectators judging them either. In fact nobody gives two craps. It's implicitly understood everyone is trying to get the best deal possible.
It's just a stunning contrast to how personally people can take a lowball offer - to the point of insult - or how others can judge Bean for a marginally high price. Really when you think about it it's just a waste of mental bandwidth.
Joeya2001
12-Apr-2023(#59)I’ll tell you what tho, my last 2 conversations on here, someone, one was for a trade how much I would include for cash, I said how much, never replied.
The second one, they asked how much, I have a price and still waiting for a reply lol even tho during the deal talking process they responded pretty fast. I just stop reaching out at that point.
Staraang
12-Apr-2023(#60)Joeya2001 wrote:> I’ll tell you what tho, my last 2 conversations on here, someone, one was for a
> trade how much I would include for cash, I said how much, never replied.
>
> The second one, they asked how much, I have a price and still waiting for a reply
> lol even tho during the deal talking process they responded pretty fast. I just stop
> reaching out at that point.
You're going to get people like that anywhere you're trying to negotiate a deal, not just GTZ. I would just move on.
Gypsy
* 12-Apr-2023(#61)Tony wrote:>
>
> My recommendation: Show some respect. Show some class. Treat other users are you
> want to be treated.
Yeah this is a lot of it. Some stuff makes me immediately check out ie citing the price at Gamestop, citing much worse condition eBay listings etc... I understand wanting a deal but being respectful is important.
Joeya2001 wrote:> I’ll tell you what tho, my last 2 conversations on here, someone, one was for a
> trade how much I would include for cash, I said how much, never replied.
>
> The second one, they asked how much, I have a price and still waiting for a reply
> lol even tho during the deal talking process they responded pretty fast. I just stop
> reaching out at that point.
Often times people don't bother responding if the answer is no. I am guilty of this as well, but am trying to be better about it.
SublimeFan
12-Apr-2023(#62)I'm 37 years old and have been a member of this site for 23(!) years. If someone doesn't like my prices or my offer, that's fine. If they want to take away my virtual points, let them.
Don't let internet strangers bother you. You're a grown ass man.
DarkFact
* 12-Apr-2023(#63)Tony wrote:> My recommendation: Show some respect. Show some class. Treat other users are you
> want to be treated.
That's how I treat it. I'd want to get a deal off not having to fudge with ebay as a buyer, so 20% discount is generally my starting point when selling, and that usually gets stuff to move quickly. If I didn't want it to move quickly, I'd probably list it at Ebay prices and spend two weeks bumping my sales post and end up just selling on ebay and getting 20% less anyways
Tony
* 12-Apr-2023(#64)Sleigh wrote:> nonamesleft wrote:
>> @Sleigh What did you by "trading of beans in a telescope?"
>>
>> Tried looking it up, beans in a telescope, couldn't find results.
>
> I'm not actually sure what the real saying is but basically people who can gain trade value just off of their trading skills. Someone who might take a $1 game and off
> of 50 trades, finding the right people, might walk away with a $1000 game without putting further things into the mix.
>
> There's an episode of The Office where it happens, albeit comically.
>
In 2006 a guy traded up from a paperclip to a house in only 14 trades. It took him about a year. Obviously some people traded uneven values with him just to help him out:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/from-paper-clip-to-... nonamesleft
13-Apr-2023(#65)Sleigh wrote:> nonamesleft wrote:
>> @Sleigh What did you by "trading of beans in a telescope?"
>>
>> Tried looking it up, beans in a telescope, couldn't find results.
>
> I'm not actually sure what the real saying is but basically people who can gain trade
> value just off of their trading skills. Someone who might take a $1 game and off
> of 50 trades, finding the right people, might walk away with a $1000 game without
> putting further things into the mix.
>
> There's an episode of The Office where it happens, albeit comically.
>
Ha! That was a great clip. The look in her eyes at about 1:03, where you see that she's going to trade for the candle. Made me laugh when Dwight demanded both collections in trade. And trading the telescope at the end. Great scene. Thanks for the link.
So you were referencing the concept. Interesting.
nonamesleft
13-Apr-2023(#66)Tony wrote:> Sleigh wrote:
>> nonamesleft wrote:
> |>> @Sleigh What did you by "trading of beans in a telescope?"
> |>>
> |>> Tried looking it up, beans in a telescope, couldn't find results.
>>
>> I'm not actually sure what the real saying is but basically people who can gain
> trade value just off of their trading skills. Someone who might take a $1 game and
> off
>> of 50 trades, finding the right people, might walk away with a $1000 game without
> putting further things into the mix.
>>
>> There's an episode of The Office where it happens, albeit comically.
>>
>
> In 2006 a guy traded up from a paperclip to a house in only 14 trades. It took him
> about a year. Obviously some people traded uneven values with him just to help him
Cool story. Just finished reading it. Amazing, some of the things people can accomplish. From a paper clip to a house.
DarkFact
14-Apr-2023(#67)with enough virality, luck and angel investors, you too can go from a paperclip to a house
DarkFact
* 15-Apr-2023(#69)I disable negs out of principle. I just don't think that neg adds much to the site; it's not YouTube, as a community we should probably be communicating more clearly. What does neg mean? This trader is crap, this post is crap, condition is crap, this item is available on sale in new condition elsewhere, I personally lose wood when I see this user's name, I don't like high prices, it's a bitcoin scam, it's an interest-free loan, I neg everything this guy says, my dog died and I'm taking it out on everyone who posts after 4pm? Speak. Fingers to keyboard. But mostly I found that I wasn't interested in what other users thought was bad; I have two eyeballs and about 67% reading comprehension give or take a couple percent. Makes it easier to point and laugh at people who make a point of making posts (or a topic!) about getting negged, or seeing someone else get negged. Who cares?
I don't disable scoring fully, I like to see what people LIKE to see. Plus is good. That's a positive site function.
DarkFact
* 15-Apr-2023(#71)? One someone is doing the negging or crying about it, the other is obfuscating their existence? Maybe you didn't word the question right.
Feeb
15-Apr-2023(#72)DarkFact wrote:> ? One someone is doing the negging or crying about it, the other is obfuscating
> their existence? Maybe you didn't word the question right.
Yeah this is my point. Passive aggression is weaksauce.
DarkFact
15-Apr-2023(#73)I like active aggression. When we use our words we understand one another!
theyrhere
* 16-Apr-2023(#74)I haven't sold here in a few years but I only dump big lots of stuff for cheap that I know you fellow dumbcraps might buy and get out of my house without the hassle of a more "official" site
Speaking of, anyone want a Kmart Wii display stand for cheaper than anywhere else
incubus421
* 17-Apr-2023(#75)We're not done here yet, right? I would tend to agree with @KillerKlown
You're not seeing a flat 13.25% fee on ebay unless you're selling an item at like $100+, because of shipping.
The smaller the sale, the more shipping eats your profit up. As someone else mentioned, a lot of topics here are people selling leftovers from a lot they bought or cheaper garage sale type items. Myself included.
I generally take the average vgpc/ebay price, lower it to be competitive with current listings on ebay, and then plug that price into
ebay fee calculator to get the price I ask for here on GTZ.
Just as an example. If I sell a game for $10 on ebay...and have to pay $3.50 to ship it. I'd be lucky to make $5 all said and done. 50% less than what it's "worth". While saying "I took 10-15% off vgpc values for my sale" is great, that's only a decent deal on more expensive items. Yes, the buyer technically still pays cheaper than ebay prices, but in cases like this, GTZ sellers actually see better profit margins selling a $10-20 game here than they would on eBay. I've always assumed this is why we have so many garage sale type seller topics here. Why not sell here when your $10 sale = $5 on ebay, but you can ask for $10 shipped here and make $6-7? Compound this by the number of items in your sale, and you can do way better here than on eBay.
Gypsy
17-Apr-2023(#76)incubus421 wrote:> We're not done here yet, right? I would tend to agree with @KillerKlown
> You're not seeing a flat 13.25% fee on ebay unless you're selling an item at like
> $100+, because of shipping.
>
> The smaller the sale, the more shipping eats your profit up. As someone else mentioned,
> a lot of topics here are people selling leftovers from a lot they bought or cheaper
> garage sale type items. Myself included.
>
> I generally take the average vgpc/ebay price, lower it to be competitive with current
> (secure)">ebay fee calculator to get the price I ask for here on GTZ.
>
> Just as an example. If I sell a game for $10 on ebay...and have to pay $3.50 to ship
> it. I'd be lucky to make $5 all said and done. 50% less than what it's "worth".
> While saying "I took 10-15% off vgpc values for my sale" is great, that's only
> a decent deal on more expensive items. Yes, the seller technically still pays cheaper
> than ebay prices, but in cases like this, GTZ sellers actually see better profit
> margins selling a $10-20 game here than they would on eBay. I've always assumed
> this is why we have so many garage sale type seller topics here. Why not sell here
> when your $10 sale = $5 on ebay, but you can ask for $10 shipped here and make $6-7?
> Compound this by the number of items in your sale, and you can do way better here
> than on eBay.
Yeah I don't understand doing low value sales on eBay at all. Unless it's a super high volume mega seller that also gets big shipping discounts.
theyrhere
* 17-Apr-2023(#77)Shipping is a fudging dog. For my new product I'm ramping up, it's a tiny ass jar that weighs like 1 oz and minimum shipping is $5
ryanflucas
18-Apr-2023(#78)I’m only here for unique items, offers by community members, lowball auctions, freebie forum. I trade in everything to a local retro shop that has a high payout.
Staraang
18-Apr-2023(#80)3hitcombo wrote:> Funny thing about auctions.
>
> I’ve literally listed items here and let them sit……and no one will buy
>
> I’ll think “heck if my price isn’t good enough, I’ll let them decide” and
> I’ll put said item for auction on here….then users bid it above my original asking
> price to begin with 🤣🤣 this has happened more often than I can even remember.
>
>
>
When you hold an auction you’re inviting people to bid. There’s the allure of buying an item at a cut-rate price. Of course bidders also get competitive and that’s when the seller benefits as you have. When you list items I think a good number of people have probably had negative experiences bargaining that they just don’t bother. Have you tried explicitly stating in your post that you welcome negotiation? Something like “All offers will be entertained” would probably drum up more interest.
I can tell you that I would definitely throw up more offers if it weren’t for the possibility that people would be insulted because they think my offer is a lowball.
