VideoGame_Discussion

Topic   What's good/bad, forgetful of past experiences & other musings of a gamer

incubus421
450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 15-Nov(#1)
Time to dive deep. I'll try to keep this starter post brief (I failed) to see if it stirs up any dialog.

Intro
These are just the ramblings of a long-time gamer. Things I've noticed through the years and how things seem to have changed as I've gotten older. For context: like most other gamers, I've been gaming from a young age, now 36, and with 30 years of experience with a controller/keyboard in my hands, the experience has changed. I still very much enjoy gaming and don't see myself ever giving it up as a hobby.


Desensitized to the good and the bad
What dictates a good game from a bad game? Sure there are glaringly obvious issues between a 5/10 game and a 9/10 game, but what about everything in between? Everything that I play lands between a 6 and an 8 if I were the reviewer. Every game I play is fine/good, because they all belong to genres or series I already know and enjoy. I don’t often give up on a game once I start it, even if I do think it’s not up to par. I paid for it in some way or another, so I need to get something out of it, I tell myself. On the other hand, I don’t think I’d ever give a game a perfect 10/10. Can a game ever truly be perfect?

I used to know what my top 10 game list looked like (no judging): Suikoden II, Legend of Mana, Xenosaga III, Mario RPG, a Final Fantasy or Might & Magic or two). I used to post it in all of the forums I followed where that kind of topic was started and I used to be proud of it. Now, I’d like to say my top 10 looks mostly the same, and I’m not sure any game that I’ve played in the last 10-15 years would have a spot on it. I call it the ‘back in my day’ effect.

At the same time, I’m not so sure some of those games in my top 10 deserve to still be there. Would I enjoy them as much if I went back and played them today? Have they aged well enough? How do I compare new gen games to the nostalgic games I grew up with? Surely some of my more recent favorites like Dark Souls, Fallout 3, or Dead Space should be on there. Maybe games that I’ve dumped countless hours into with friends and family like Rocket League, Overwatch, WoW, and FFXIV. These games just seem too different to compare to my top 10.

Does good vs bad truly matter? We all like what we like. I will call every Zelda game a 7-8 every time, even though it scores a 9.5+ every time. I will find more enjoyment out of that lesser known game off the shelf that critics wouldn’t even give a 7.

My ultimate point is that the lines are blurred now. I’m sure dilution has something to do with it. When you’ve played 20 games it’s easy to pick out your favorite. When you’ve played 2000 games, it’s harder to be certain.


Forgetful of past experiences
As I play more and more games and get older, I feel like the experiences either aren’t as memorable, or I just have a harder time remembering them. I’m a big keeper of data. I track every game I beat, when I beat it, how long it took, if I hit any milestones in the game like a platinum trophy, etc. etc. Still, as I look back on even games I beat last year, I find myself having difficulty coming up with a few short sentences to describe what occurred in that game. Character or location names of an RPG I played a year ago? forget about it! A friend or family member will bring up a game they're currently playing that I played a year or a few years back and I’ll be hard-pressed to carry on a conversation about it. Possible medical issues aside, I think there are other factors that play a role.

First, gaming in many ways is an escape from everyday stress and commitments. A way to unwind. It’s the few hours of the day when I can try to turn my brain off. This makes sense to me why games often don’t stick firmly in my mind for long periods of time. While I’m gaming, I’m in a ‘let’s not absorb anymore data’ state of mind.
However, taking a brain break to game isn’t exactly 100% true in my household either. It’s more like, ‘this kid has homework or a general question’,’ this kid needs to do this chore’, ‘I need to do x, y, and z before this time’, ‘dinner needs to be made’, ‘the dog needs out’. The point is, my brain is focused on so many other things even when I am gaming, so how can it fully absorb the experience?

My mind has seemed to make the change that gaming experiences belong in the short-term memory category and not the long-term, probably due to level of actual importance to my life.


Other musings of a near middle-aged gamer
My children (ages 14, 10, and 8) are getting real close, and in some cases ARE better than me at certain games. Watching the cat-like reflexes of my children playing something like Fortnite is astounding. Someone can get the jump on them and they’ll build and/or turn around and take that person down first. I’m the guy that gets a jump on someone and that someone turns around and downs me first. As a father and gamer I am obviously proud of their ability, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t do anything to my psyche as a barely-competitive gamer myself. The loss of reflexes as we age is well documented, but you really get to see it first-hand when you have kids. For now, I'm not ready to concede my title!

I’m curious to see how my generation and the one before mine looks as we step into our senior years. Gaming is way more mainstream and widely accepted now. As we get older, will nursing homes now be filled with game consoles to appease the old gamers (not just Nintendo Wii's)? Will old folks be calling up their friends and grandkids to get in some online matches before an early bedtime? I sure hope so!

Lastly, as in all things, time is finite and the show must come to an end. Being that I track the games I beat and how much time I spend gaming, it's real easy to average this data to the average lifespan. While it's a bit morbid to think about, I have a fairly accurate calculation of how many games I have left to play and beat in my lifetime. Has anyone found themselves curious and done anything similar? All I can say is that, I wish the number remaining were bigger.


If you made it to the end, thanks for reading the ramblings of a not-so-old gamer.


Orlandu
Double Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (3 minutes ago)
15-Nov(#2)
I think a lot of gamers have difficulty accepting that the hobby is not (or should not be) nearly as big of a priority in adulthood. I put as much thought into playing a game as I do watching a movie. Does it look interesting? I'll give it a shot. If it's boring I move on. I don't care what score it has or how it ranks on my all-time list of whatever. A vast, vast, vast majority of entertainment will not be the best you've ever experienced, and that's okay. Not everything has to be measured in superlatives. The backlog anxiety is baffling to me, too. If your hobby begins to feel like a job then it's time for a new hobby.
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
* 15-Nov(#3)
incubus421 wrote:
> On the other hand, I don’t think I’d ever give a game
> a perfect 10/10. Can a game ever truly be perfect?

Yes. Especially when viewed in the lens of "for their time."


> My ultimate point is that the lines are blurred now. I’m sure dilution has something
> to do with it. When you’ve played 20 games it’s easy to pick out your favorite.
> When you’ve played 2000 games, it’s harder to be certain.

I don't think it's dilution so much as having built a familiarity and comfort with it. 30 years ago (1993), game devs were still figuring a lot of things out. Even in the 2D space, a lot of gameplay ideas had yet to be explored, to say nothing of the infancy of 3D polygonal gaming.

Genres were being created, recreated, and defined. And the more games you play, often the more you find yourself categorizing and labeling your fun instead of just letting it roll.

Ah, another 2d roguelike metroidvania with mild puzzle elements.

Neat, an isometric online multiplayer battle royale with an extensive single player story mode!

Joy. Another life sim with a focus on farming and crafting and romancing your fellow villagers.

Good grief, another third person open world stealth parkour action game with rpg elements and a collectible card minigame? Isn't the market saturated yet?


Even if you think you are turning your brain off, you are probably still subconsciously comparing to similar games and putting things in mental boxes. They are just getting meshed together with everything else like it rather than a unique box for the experience of that game.

I think you don't want to just turn off your brain, you want to turn on the kid brain that still has that sense of wonder and excitement and newness.

But it does seem a lot more difficult now when almost every new game that comes out can be described as "It's a sequel/remaster/remake of Popular Game A," "It's a spiritual successor to popular game B," or "What if popular game A and popular game B had a baby?"

Also, having disposable income makes gaming feel more... disposable, for lack of a better word. When you were a kid and had to save up for a game, or wait for a birthday or Christmas, you played that game to death. Those memories are going to be a lot stronger because they were more special because they had to be. Maybe put a limit on the number of games you buy for 2024. 1 per month? 1 per quarter? Buy no new games and only play the backlog?

Maybe spending a whole month or a whole quarter with one game will help bring the kinds of memories you seek. Beat it the first week? Play it again with a different style. Even when you think you've seen everything a game has to offer, make your own fun with it. For example try speedrunning, or trying to top a leaderboard, or blindfolded punch out, or a Pokemon run limited to one type of mons.

bill
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 28 Reviews
15-Nov(#4)
I can relate to what you're saying here. Rating and comparing games gets harder and loses meaning the longer you live. Something similar happens with movies and TV shows too. I think on some level the whole idea of things like favorites and top-10 lists is problematic and fails to capture the reality of what the experience is like. Most things are a mix of good and bad elements, comparison is not always helpful.

I mostly don't even try to rate stuff anymore. I just like or dislike things in the moment and that's about all I can say. I have to admit my mood can be a big factor in whether I'm able to get into something. When I look at other people's opinions, they can seem arbitrary. I think there does exist some objective quality to games/movies but there's also a lot of subjectivity mixed in too. Also, things that are popular are often not the things I'll personally enjoy the most.

I may have things I get into and like consistently, but these are also a kind of bias that may limit my enjoyment of other stuff. In other words, it's also great to try something new and find new ways to enjoy things.

I've definitely wondered if the nursing home I end up in will have video games. Or, if I'll still be able to play them; or if I'll want to.
Gypsy
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
16-Nov(#5)
RE backlog talk: Awhile ago I decided to really only buy newer release games if I am going to play them, and then sell them when I am done. This led to me buying a lot less games and I realized how few games I really want to play.

Orlandu wrote:
> I put as much thought into playing
> a game as I do watching a movie. Does it look interesting? I'll give it a shot.
> If it's boring I move on.

Yeah I think a lot of people lack critical thinking skills so they lean on reviews. Like you I just kind of make a quick assessment. Everyone can get tricked but I've never had a hard time identifying things I like/don't like in games. My drop rate is fairly low but if I'm not having fun I will drop it. That used to be a problem for me when I was younger, I'd keep playing a game I wasn't enjoying as much because money was tight. Now it's very easy not to care and I have a better view on this all just being entertainment.

Orlandu wrote:
>I don't care what score it has or how it ranks on my
> all-time list of whatever. A vast, vast, vast majority of entertainment will not
> be the best you've ever experienced, and that's okay. Not everything has to be measured
> in superlatives.

I see this phenomenon across all media types. So many times people will give something an extreme score on either end. Omg best/worst ever! The reality is most things are probably between 4-6 out of 10 if you care to rate on a true ten point scale.

bill wrote:
> I can relate to what you're saying here. Rating and comparing games gets harder
> and loses meaning the longer you live. Something similar happens with movies and
> TV shows too. I think on some level the whole idea of things like favorites and
> top-10 lists is problematic and fails to capture the reality of what the experience
> is like. Most things are a mix of good and bad elements, comparison is not always
> helpful.
>

I think for me, I generally measure favorites by how much do I revisit them. Obviously easier to rewatch a movie than replay a longer game but there are games I have played a lot. Then you have people like my older brother who NEVER replay games no matter what basically and once it's done he doesn't do any freeplay type options either.

bill wrote:
> I mostly don't even try to rate stuff anymore. I just like or dislike things in
> the moment and that's about all I can say. I have to admit my mood can be a big
> factor in whether I'm able to get into something. When I look at other people's
> opinions, they can seem arbitrary. I think there does exist some objective quality
> to games/movies but there's also a lot of subjectivity mixed in too. Also, things
> that are popular are often not the things I'll personally enjoy the most.
>

When I post about what I finished playing/watching somewhere I don't bother giving a score. Usually a few thoughts and I'll go a little more in depth if someone asks.

Objectivity is tough because different movies/games have completely different goals. Fanservice vs think pieces etc Like is something just being fanservice inherently worse if it is achieving it's goal?

bill wrote:
> I've definitely wondered if the nursing home I end up in will have video games.
> Or, if I'll still be able to play them; or if I'll want to.

Ha, I hope I'm still there mentally/physically to be playing games at 80.
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
* 16-Nov(#6)
Gypsy wrote:.
>
> I see this phenomenon across all media types. So many times people will give something
> an extreme score on either end. Omg best/worst ever! The reality is most things are
> probably between 4-6 out of 10 if you care to rate on a true ten point scale.

The reality is that a 10 point rating system is inherently flawed because it is interpreted quiye differently by different people.

Many people see a 7 as average (which maybe coincides with a C grade in many schools being 70-79%)

Most of the review sites however, insist that a 7 is a "good" game, and that somewhere in the 5-6 range would be average/okay.

I think it's time to just review everything and rank them all in order, and score them on a bell curve. Highest game gets a 10, lowest game gets a zero. Math out everything in between to evenly stagger the decimals.

Even only comparing games within a single calendar year, a lot of people's favorites would probably end up with a 5 or a 6 instead of a high 8 or low 9.

That might be a fun project to do on a weekend sometime. Just grab metacritic scores for all the games rated over a year and rebalance the scores to show what "average" really means

Or maybe just keep a running rank every game I've ever played


Gypsy
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally
* 16-Nov(#7)
Yeah I'm not a fan of review scores at all. The score basically serves no purpose (I know the real purpose, to be high and drive sales). It's extra funny when the review write-up doesn't really line up with the score given.
bumsplikity
GameTZ Subscriber Double Gold Good Trader
16-Nov(#8)
This is why i've always loved the 5 point review scale. 1 is trash, 2 is OK, 3 is good/fine/average, 4 is great, 5 is amazing.

A scale this rigid forces people to make actual decisions. The difference between a 2 and a 3, or a 3 and a 4, is substantial. Otherwise everything ends up getting a 7.5
incubus421
450 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader
* 16-Nov(#9)
benstylus wrote:
> I think you don't want to just turn off your brain, you want to turn on the kid brain
> that still has that sense of wonder and excitement and newness.
>
> But it does seem a lot more difficult now when almost every new game that comes out
> can be described as "It's a sequel/remaster/remake of Popular Game A," "It's a spiritual
> successor to popular game B," or "What if popular game A and popular game B had a
> baby?"
>
> Also, having disposable income makes gaming feel more... disposable, for lack of
> a better word. When you were a kid and had to save up for a game, or wait for a
> birthday or Christmas, you played that game to death. Those memories are going to
> be a lot stronger because they were more special because they had to be.
>
> Maybe spending a whole month or a whole quarter with one game will help bring the
> kinds of memories you seek.
>

Ah, to have that sense of childish wonder and amazement back would be something! Great point to why games we play as we age may not stick firmly in the mind.
It is also true that truly NEW experiences are much fewer and much farther between. Though they're not my cup of tea, the Battle Royale games and Roguelikes have really taken off. New genre = new excitement.

I also agree with you that as a child, whatever games I had were given to me as gifts for holidays and what have you. What you had is all you had! So you played it to no end. Combine that with the 'my pet or sibling ran through my controller cord knocking my system off the shelf, resetting my game...I hope it didn't reset my save...oh, it did reset my save of FF3, time to start a new file when I've finished fuming.' scenario. Obviously repetition helps store things to long-term memory.

Nowadays, I beat a game, and boot up the next one. Except in rare instances like Dead Space or Dark Souls which I new-gamed 2-3 times each when they came out, and more since then. Generally by that 3rd run, I can go full speed non-stop and I know precisely where everything is.


bill wrote:
> I have to admit my mood can be a big
> factor in whether I'm able to get into something.

I have to agree with you there. I have to remind myself to switch it up now and then. I just went through a stint this year where I played a couple Might & Magic games, then two Pokemon games and finally FFXVI. All of which I played for 60-80 hours. Chances are if I booted up another lengthy RPG type I would have been more critical of its shortcomings and had less patience to take my time and enjoy the game. Instead, I opted for some shorter games like Alan Wake and now Callisto Protocol. A couple games of the shorter/different variety and I'll be ready for another grand adventure.

bill wrote:
> I've definitely wondered if the nursing home I end up in will have video games.
> Or, if I'll still be able to play them; or if I'll want to.

I wonder this as well. Will I develop carpal tunnel or arthritis severe enough that I can no longer manage a controller or keyboard? I certainly hope not, but gamers surely have to be at increased risk, right? If not, will other aspects of the retirement life inevitably take priority? As of now, I probably get a good 20-30 hours of gaming done on any given week, maybe it'll only be 5-10 hours a week by the time I'm a senior. Maybe I'll decide gaming just isn't a priority as it once was, as I move to get my affairs in order and spend as much time exploring and visiting the people I care about as I can. That sounds nice.

..

Review Scale
As has been mentioned a few times, I too am in the boat that review scores are often skewed towards positivity. Even the worst games in a year can score a 5-7. Does this mean its better than 50-70% of all other games? No, because at a 5 most review watchers won't give that game the time of day, but a 5 should mean that it is better than 50% of all other reviewed games. That would mean that game is definitely still worth playing.
In the current system I don't think we will ever see a game score a 1 or a 2...but something has to be the worst, right? The 10 point scale needs an overhaul. A 3 or 4 should still be looked at as a playable game that some people will actually still enjoy. It shouldn't be looked down on as a plague to our great hobby.

Most of my favorite games don't have review scores, like anything Might & Magic, or they have low-ish review scores like King's Bounty. It's all subjective.

benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
* 16-Nov(#10)
I am of the opinion that you can find some fun in just about any game, as long as the game actually functions.

Certainly there are games that try to prove me wrong though. F2p mobile games are a good example unless you want to drop trow a bunch of money into them.

They are fun for the first 15-20 minutes and then you hit the inevitable aggressive money grabbing. "You're out of turns! Wait 4 hours or pay us to play more." Or the levels ramp up in difficulty to where they are almost impossible without some of the powerup items that are available by spending this premium currency, etc.

benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews
16-Nov(#11)
Regarding ratings, there is a good reason bill chose the A-F letter grade scale instead of numbers for the old gtz reviews when those were a thing.

bill
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Has Written 28 Reviews
16-Nov(#12)
My impression/rating of a game/movie is often relative to my expectation.
For example, most big budget stuff gets held to a higher standard. So, something like "The Killer" didn't make a good impression on me because I expect more from Fincher & Fassbender. But, if the same movie was made by some unknown people, I may have been more impressed.
That's just one example of relativism. I'm sure I do it in many other ways too. Like, if a movie is super popular (e.g. Barbie, which I haven't seen), I'm tougher on it. But, some unknown horror movie with some new idea, I'll gush over despite its many flaws.
bonham2
600 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 2 Reviews
* 7-Jan(#13)
I agree with a lot of what Bill is saying here. I am much more forgiving of a goofy or flawed horror movie than I am off a high budget huge release. The same goes for games. I am a bit more forgiving of cheaper games than I am of $60-$70 AAA games.

I also agree that my mood really plays into things. If I'm really feeling like playing a sprawling, 100+ hour RPG or open world game, I will usually buckle down and force myself to learn the mechanics. On the other hand, if I'm not in the right mood, one annoying or confusing menu or one too many cut scenes will take me out of it immediately.

The other thing is I know graphics don't matter as much as gameplay, but if I'm turned off by an art style (usually something too busy or anime style), I usually quit those games pretty early.
nonamesleft
Double Gold Good Trader
* 14-Jan(#14)
@incubus421 Nice post. I got to the end. Lots of thought provoking statements.

I'll just go with my thoughts, no particular order.

To me, a 10/10 doesn't mean a game is perfect. Like you said, how could there be a perfect game? To me, a 10/10 could mean that the flaws are so minimal compared to how good the game is, or maybe that I enjoyed a game so much that I'd give it a 10. Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga for me is a contender for a 10/10.

When I played games prior to being an adult, I would play through the games extremely thoroughly. Leave no stone unturned, get every item, talk to every character, experiment heavily, etc. But not so much anymore. Now I want to enjoy the game I'm playing, and trying to do everything can feel like a chore to me. I don't know what changed between then and now that I now view it as a chore, because back then I enjoyed what I was playing even when I was being super thorough. Although, sometimes now I'll still be very thorough in a game, but now it's not a must do.

As a kid, I played video games whenever I had the chance, and couldn't wait to get home from school and play video games. But as an adult, I have other responsibilities and other things I want to do, so the amount of time dedicated to gaming typically isn't nearly as much now as it was when I was a kid.

I have to be realistic in that I won't play all the games that I want to play. So I'll play the ones I most want to play, and the ones I sort of wanted to play I'll sometimes watch some gameplay of or not play them at all.

I'd love to have a grandkid one day who trashtalks me in super smash bros, but I then totally beat them, show them who's boss :)

Topic   What's good/bad, forgetful of past experiences & other musings of a gamer